It's down right criminal what those localizers did to Squall. Literally fanfic'd him into a Cloud copy when he's an entirely different character in JP. We could have had the pleasure of knowing the single best protsgonist out of the entire FF franchise. FF8 was Nojima's golden child to make up for his own perceived failures in delivering on what he wanted in FF7 after all.
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>>738321671whatever
>>738321671"whatever" is better and more iconic
>>738321671The english version is unironically superior You will never be a woman and no amount of slant worship from those crusty brown lips will change that. Kk?
>>738321671whats the difference between EN and JP squall? is german squall yet another character?
>>738321671name 10 differences
nice general
>>738325060Being one dimensionally uncaring isn't a character. Being pressured and trodden by society and responsibilities and having your perspective ignored is actually a theme and character.
>>738322689>>738321972>>738321735Sound girly
Long neck.
>>738321671i still dont get her problem
Why don't you go talk to a wall
>>738321671There's a fairly popular FF8 writeup about what his "Whatever" lines were in Japanese. In the original, they were him repeating a catchphrase that showed him being dismissive of someone else's concerns. A lot of people who don't know a word of Japanese now assume FF8 is absolutely perfect in the original Japanese and only those mean old localizers made it worse. Somehow they also don't notice that there's no FF8 Dirge of Cerberus, FF8 Advent Children or FF8 Remake.
>>7383216711-You don't speak japanese2- Squall is great
>>738326073whatever isn't the same as warukatta nablaming it on localizers is partly stupid because localization inevitably causes things to be lost in translation, plus it opens the script up to additional stupidity which is usually what people complain about
>>738326643>warukatta naOh so that's what he says in JP?That's interesting, because IIRC there's a line later on with Rinoa where she replies 'No you're not sorry you just want to get it over with quickly' or something.Makes a lot more sense now.Still, can't be worse than the ENG localization for 7R. Now that's a real shit show.
>>738328345I haven't played the full original script so unfortunately I'd need to replay the game again at some point. But I don't think he just says one line, there's more variation to his dialogue from what I've seen.
>>738325616You dont understand squall kek. You're a redditor/reseterapedo who sees 1 screenshot and decides "ewwww yucky yikes this aint it chief"
>>738325683you sound like a fag
>>738328953kinda hard to when the character just says whatever to everything lmao
>>738325616>Being one dimensionally uncaring isn't a characterSquall isn't, you haven't played the game. He is constantly introspective and only outwardly dismisses people around him because admitting that he cares and being willing to be vulnerable around the is too hard and painful.
>>738325683That's because you are girly and you are imparting your own emotions onto the word. A true "whatever" sounds as though the user can barely muster the effort to say the word, let alone care what the other person is talking about
>>738329976>accuing people of not having played the game when you can't even read 2 posts to get context
>>738326643NTA, but where Squall uses it it pretty much is. His warukatta na is just a slightly more polite version of "get off my back" . If anything, his JP lines are sometimes meaner than EN. Take his inner comment about Quistis in the Fire Cavern, when she tries to act flirty. In EN we get a disinterested "whatever", in JP he basically goes "you're a joke of a teacher". Or consider this exchange with Rinoa.EN:Squall: "Call it what you want. All we want is for you to achieve your goal using our help. I find it hard to believe that you can do it, though...>Rinoa: "W-What did you say!? If you have something to say, just say it!" >Yeah, I'll tell you>Squall: "How serious are you, really. The 3 of you plop down on the floor to discuss strategy? On top of that, you can't make a decision without our input, right? How do you think we feel, working for such an organization?"JP>Squall: "Call it what you want. Just use us and deliver the best possible result—that’s all that matters. Though I don’t believe you’re capable of it.">Rinoa: "W-What did you say!? If you have something to say, just say it!" >Yeah, I'll definitely tell you>Squall: "How serious are you lot, exactly? The three of you plop down on the floor and you call it a strategy meeting—and then you change your mind straight away? Worse yet, you can’t even decide anything without our input, can you? Spare a thought for us, having to work for an outfit like that.”As you can see, the overall tone is very similar, but here Squall sounds harsher in JP. He's an amazing character: intelligent, responsible, reflective, harsh when the situation calls for it and many other things. But this whole "he was a different character in JP, so much nicer" is pure fiction invented by people who either can't speak Japanese or don't understand contextual nuances. There is one actual major major difference in the FFVIII script and that's Ultimecia's lines, but people keep ignoring that.
>>738328345Yes, that's his catchphrase in Japanese.
>>738330613It's not about being nicer, it's more about being frustrated about things. If there's no reaction you don't even know what the conflict is about. In your example the JP shows more context for the conflict.
>>738330964It seems to be mainly a character limit issue. The text boxes had a certain size and the text had to fit there come hell or high water. All things considered, the results are admirably accurate.
>>738330613Post the actual Japanese dialogue or fuck off faggot.
>>738321671>Cloud copy>t. an absolute faggot who only played KH/compilation garbage
>>738325060
>>738330613What about Ultimecias line?I know there was some very bad translation on something that was really important for the story, but I can't remember what exactly they fucked up.
localization thread?
>>738333327
>>738321671>Butchered by localizationWarukatta na...
>>738332453>Squall doesn't know how he would feel if he hadn't had breakfast that morning.Nigger tier.Hilarious though that the trannyslators didn't understand the dialogue at all, or did they just deliberately insert their gay fanfiction?
>>738321671>unironically wants the "Excuse me princess" version of Squall
>>738332453uh this is like 95% the same.if youre gonna bitch about localization find something worth bitching about
>>738333990holy slopeater
>>738334580youre just a fucking moron who doesnt know japanese and wants to be angry to fit in but cant find something worth being mad about
>>738334661weird projection
>>738334735le projection le sloptry again when youre older
In the original Japanese, Rinoa and Ultimecia mimic each other’s words and speech mannerisms, a detail that’s missing in the official localization.In fact, the game is packed with foreshadowing, double meanings, poetic irony, puns, and similar literary devices, but the localization completely failed to pick up on them.For example, in the game, Seifer is constantly competing not only with Squall but also with Laguna, and when he learns that Laguna has become the president of Esthar, he abandons his romantic dream of being a knight and decides to become a revolutionary. I don't think this is even present in the localization.
This is another place where the localizers fucked up, but in this case is understandable. In the first pic Nida uses a phrase that revolves around the verb "動かす" (ugokasu), which translates to "moving" something.In Japanese, ugokasu carries an inherent double meaning. Metaphorically, it means to manage, direct, or run an organization (acting as the driving force or the boss). Literally, it means to physically operate or pilot a machine. Nida is proudly stating that he will become the man who "moves" the Garden. In his mind, he is declaring his ambition to eventually replace Cid as Headmaster, but the script is winking at the player because he is destined to literally pilot the building once it is able to take flight in the second Disc 2.The official English localization instead went with:>"(I'll be the ruler of this Garden someday!)"It captures his administrative ambition but completely kills the mechanical pun.To localize this in a way that feels completely natural to an English speaker while perfectly preserving the writer's intent, i'd go with something like:>"(I'll be at the helm of this Garden someday!)">"(I'm going to be the one steering this Garden someday!)">"(I'll be the one running this Garden someday!)"I personally like the first one best, since "At the helm" is a widely used English idiom for being the leader or director of an institution. However, it is fundamentally a nautical term for standing at the steering wheel of a ship.Localizers missed the poetic irony that Nida, the unassuming SeeD cadet with big dreams, was essentially fighting against favoritism and predestination, yet still managed to fulfill his desires, even if it meant taking a detour.
>>738335961Yeah it's a pretty easy one to get, too. In P5 Shido's palace is a ship with the idea of "steering" the country. I don't expect much from ancient translations but stuff like this is why I don't want to bother with them anymore.
There's no mod to have a 1:1 translation?
In the original Japanese version of the game, Rinoa and Ultimecia echo each other’s words much more often. That’s why it feels almost criminal that the official localization altered so many of Ultimecia’s lines.Here's an example:Rinoa: リノア「…やさしくない。やさしくない!」Edea (Ultimecia): イデア「現実は優しくない。現実はまったく優しくない」One possible translation that conveys the original intent could be:Rinoa: "...That's not kind. Not kind at all!"Edea (Ultimecia): "Reality is not kind. Reality is not kind at all."Instead, the official localization went with this:Rinoa: "...You're mean. MEANY!!!"Edea (Ultimecia): "This is reality. No one can help you. Sit back and enjoy the show."This happens a lot. It might make the read feel more natural or entertaining, but it strips away much of the original subtext.Aside from the instances lost in translation, there’s also my picture, showing how the “Commencement Room”, the first place we found ourselves in when Time Compression happened, turned out to be a recreation of the room in Deling City’s Presidential Residence. You could say Ultimecia recreated this space because it’s where she announced herself to the world after possessing Edea, but that overlooks the important fact that it’s also where Rinoa fell in love with Squall.Once again, the official localization stripped the room’s name of its poetic touch. In Japanese, the “Commencement Room” is called 始まりの部屋 (Hajimari no heya). A more literal translation that preserves the original intent would be “Room of Beginnings” or “The Room Where It All Began.”Though here it is understandable, the localization team likely chose the word "Commencement" because it acts as a clever double meaning. "Commencement" is a synonym for a "beginning," but it is also a direct callback to Disc 1, as that specific room in Deling City is where Sorceress Edea's "Commencement Ceremony" took place. Still the cleverness rob it so much of what is truly important about the room.
>>738338032At the end of Disc 1, Rinoa is ambushed by the Iguions in the Presidential Residence in Deling City. Squall arrives just in time to save her. Still terrified, Rinoa clings to him. Squall, stepping into his role as her protector, tells her:>Japanese: 「俺のそばからはなれるな」 (Ore no soba kara hanareru na)>English Localization: "Just stay close to me."At this point, it is simply a practical command from a SeeD mercenary to his client. But for Rinoa, it is the exact moment she begins to feel truly safe with him, sparking the feelings that define her character arc.Fast forward to Disc 3 in the flower field. Rinoa is terrified of her future as a Sorceress and suggests isolating herself in Esthar so she doesn't hurt anyone. Squall refuses to let her go and inadvertently repeats his line from Disc 1:>Japanese: 「リノアは……俺のそばからはなれるな」 (Rinoa wa... ore no soba kara hanareru na)>English Localization: "Just stay close to me."Rinoa's reaction is immediate and joyful because she recognizes the callback:>Japanese: 「その言葉がはじまりだったの」 (Sono kotoba ga hajimari datta no)>Literal Translation: "Those words were the beginning.">English Localization: "That's what started everything."The English localization captures the meaning perfectly here. "That's what started everything" sounds natural and conveys her feelings. However, by choosing the word "started," they inadvertently fuck it up for the final disc.At the end of the game, the party steps in a room that is visually identical to the Deling City's Presidential Residence. In the Japanese script, this room is officially named:>始まりの部屋 (Hajimari no heya)>(The Room of Beginnings)When a Japanese player enters this room, the linguistic connection is instant. Rinoa said the Deling City words were the hajimari (beginning). Therefore, Time Compression has manifested the physical location of that memory, literally naming it the Hajimari room. It is a piece of environmental storytelling that confirms the depth of Rinoa's feelings.
>>738338032>>738335961This kind of thing is an understandable product of the time where the localisers were working on a rushed schedule with spreadsheets devoid of context and no contact with the writing team.I would like to see a retranslation of 8 one day though.
>>738339595In the English localization, the room is named:>The Commencement RoomWhile "commencement" is technically a synonym for "beginning," it is a highly formal, academic word. Their idea to reference "Commencement Ceremonies" is clever, but completely misses the point of the original intent.Also because the localization had Rinoa say "That's what started everything" instead of "That was the beginning," the linguistic bridge is completely broken. An English-speaking player has absolutely no reason to link the word "Commencement" to Rinoa's dialogue in the flower field.Because of this translation choice, most Western players simply think, "Oh, it's the room from Deling City because we're fighting Sorceresses and Edea was there." They miss the deeply romantic truth of the original script: The room is there because, to Rinoa, it is the most important room in the world. It is the Room of Beginnings.The official localization is full of misses such as this. Ironically, the spin-off content featuring characters from FF8 had better localization that stuck closer to the original script. Playing some of those spin-offs might make you realize there were plenty of things in the original game that didn’t make sense to a Western player, even though they were present in the original script. One example is this creepy imagery from the original game. A Japanese player would understand exactly what it means.
>>738339625I agree with you.FF8 is a particularly tricky script to translate, packed with foreshadowing, callbacks, puns, and more. You’d need the entire script on hand and read through it multiple times, knowing you have to hunt for clever details in every line of dialogue. I highly doubt the original localization team had the chance to do that.
>>738339973pls explain what the creepy imagery means, if it's not just time compression memory fragments
The original JP language version the game was shitIn the English language version the game was shit
>>738332639The unofficial translation for the Japanese on the left is still a bit wrong.>思考が分断され、記憶も思い出も極限にまでうすめられるのだWhoever translated it must have read it ad 分断された記憶 by mistake, but she doesn't actually say there will be any fragmentation of memories.
>>738340694(you)Sorry, on the right. Not the left.It's 6:33 AM in Japan and I haven't had time to write みぎ and ひだり on my hands in pen yet to be able to distinguish the two.
>>738321671People still defend this game when the translation is THAT terrible. I don't know how people unironically do it.
>>738340901Well, people will say the same of Chrono Trigger or FF6. Other games were the translator just made it up.
>>738339973oh yeah missing faces another totally original design choice in E33https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFjHWw_w91Q
>>738341367Chrono Trigger is on my to-do list. I have it on Steam, I have the ROM, how do I play it to avoid it being butchered?
>>738341902I have no idea. I played it in Japanese.Great game. I played it for the first time a few years ago and loved it.Honestly I think I marginally preferred LiveALive though.
>>738340335>>738341835At its heart, FFVIII proposes a specific philosophical rule: You only exist because you remember yourself, and because others remember you. The game reinforces this mechanically through the Guardian Forces (GFs). To gain physical power and survive in the harsh world of the game, the characters junction GFs to their minds. But the cost of this power is their memories. They are literally trading the things that make them human (their own pasts and their bonds with others) for the strength to fight.This trade-off, sacrificing your humanity for power, is foreshadowed by the very creation myth of their universe.When the creator god Hyne went to war with humanity, he realized he couldn't win physically against the sheer number of humans and their ingenuity. So, as a peace offering he cleaved himself in two. He hid his true "magical" essence away in women (which eventually manifested in Sorceresses) and gave men his discarded physical body to trick them.The original Japanese text refers to this discarded body as 抜け殻のハイン (Nukegara no Hyne, or The Empty Shell of Hyne). If Hyne’s physical form was the Nukegara, then the magic he concealed within women wasn’t merely mystical "power," it was his very essence: his will, his soul.During the ending cinematic, Time Compression begins to tear reality apart. Because physical reality in this state is sustained purely by memory and attachments, Squall is in immense danger. When he becomes separated from the group, he tries to remember Rinoa to anchor himself, but he can't. His memories fail him. Because he cannot remember, he is at risk of becoming Nukegara, an Empty Shell.For whatever reason, when Hyne's myth is described in the game, they translate the idea of an "Empty Shell" as Cast-Off Skin. While it accurately conveys the biological idea of a shedding (like a snake or a cicada shedding its exterior), it misses a bit of the spiritual emptiness that Nukegara implies in Japanese philosophy.
>>738342214I'm not literate in moon runes :(
>>738342337By the way, i still think that even if they had translated as "Empty Shell" some of the Western players would miss on the idea the phrase, and the imagery associated with it, is trying to convey.In Japanese literature and art, the most famous association with Nukegara is the cicada shell. Cicadas spend years underground, emerge, shed their hard outer shell, live for a fleeting few days, and die. The hollow, translucent amber shell left clinging to the tree is the Nukegara.In the aesthetic philosophy of Mono no aware (the pathos of things / the gentle sadness of transience), the cicada shell is a powerful motif. It represents something that perfectly retains the shape of life, but is entirely devoid of the spirit that once animated it. It is a haunting echo of existence.In traditional Japanese spiritualism, Shinto, the physical body (体 - karada) is strictly a temporary vessel for the soul/spirit (魂 - tamashii). When a person loses their mind to trauma, grief, or dementia, they are often colloquially referred to as having become a Nukegara. Their body is there, but the "self" has departed.By calling Hyne’s discarded half a Nukegara, the writers are explicitly telling the Japanese audience: This is not just half of a god's power. This is a divine corpse. The soul is somewhere else.In the philosophical framework of Final Fantasy VIII, the ultimate fear is not death, but rather becoming a Nukegara.Death is treated as a natural consequence of conflict in the game's mercenary world. But losing your memories to a GF, losing your attachments in the time rift, or losing your human soul to Hyne’s parasitic magic, that is a fate worse than death. You become a hollow cicada shell clinging to the tree of reality, possessing the shape of a human, but utterly devoid of the memories and connections that made you real.Ironically, in the FF8-themed event in the mobile game Mobius Final Fantasy, they actually translated that exact idea correctly.
>>738341902There a couple fan translations if I remember right. Don't know if they're any good, never tried them.
>>738343290Nojima and Nomura love to play with this philosophical idea. See the Nobodies in Kingdom Hearts.
>>738344085Or the black-caped men in FF7 often called Sephiroth Clones, that had their minds wiped clean by Jenova's cells and Mako poisoning.
>>738321671I'll learn japanese, play it in japanese and give my opinion on this one day.
>>738321671I never got the feeling he was the same character as Cloud though, he was just done with everyone heaping the world's responsibilities onto him just because he's a successful student.
>>738326643>they butchered it in KH1 as well>didn't even use "whatever" for itcriminal
>>738340490Original JP version is fine although no junction exchange is painful at times
