Charge input was literally created to be easier than quarter circle and DP. Why do '23ers find it less intuitive? Why have devs been trying kill it?
'cause it's fucking ass and unfun and in fact less intuitive to use.>do a quarter circle forwardVs.>hold this button for an indeterminate period of timeYuck
>>738322803>indeterminate period of timeZoomie literally cannot count numbers in his brain unless it’s “6 7”
forced meme
>>738322907>old mfer needs to play sesame street fighter cause he might forget how to countActual brainlet moment.
>>738322643I played Zato in GG because I didn't want to learn charge inputs for May. It just felt easier and more intuitive/natural to do negative edge than charge inputs. I originally tried to practice them and my brain rejected it because I felt it was dumb.
Alsk, now that leverless is wildly popular, charge inputs are even easier to do. I think it has to do with how people tend to play fighting games, most people when they do an input they mash it twice or thrice to make sure it comes out. Charge inputs require timing, you can't just mash back and forward, you need to hold it for a specific amount of frames. Most people play like psychopaths, that's the problem.
>>738322643Modern controls made classic obsolete :)
Why charge? Just do the attack!How are you going to combo if you have to be squatting all the time?Don't wait, do a flip already!
>>738322643It's a bit unintuitive because you don't know how long you have to hold a direction to make the move work. It is still easier than most other special move inputs. Some developers just want to make everything quarter circles and so anything else is automatically seen as wrong.
Would a visual indicator improve charge inputs? Like a little flash once it's charged. You could clearly see when it's ready allowing you to improve your timing, but so could your opponent so they'd know it was coming. But an experienced opponent would already know it's coming from the direction you're holding, so it wouldn't affect higher level play much if at all. Would that be a good enough compromise?
>>738322931The fuck is a '23er?
>>738322643its not intuitive.it is in fact very easy though.>>738323709dont look up urien combo videos
>>738322643ALEX FOOM
>hold Charge>release>perform neutral Normal>Cancel into Charged SpecialEasy peasy!
>>738324505how about we stop raping the genre for faggots who clearly hate it?
>>738324641You know what? You're right. I love fighting games aesthetically, but boy do I hate playing the..
>>738324641This
>>738324505Like you said, it would also announce to the other player that you have those moves ready. That's still better than not having any charge moves at all.
>>738324713Here is my argument: Fighting games are the one genre where you can't have fun right out the gate. That's awful, and a disrespect of the players. In ye olde days, they made them intentionally difficult to drain your parents' wallets of quarters. Now, they're just artificial timesinking measures. It's deceitful and dishonest.
>>738322643The motion itself is easy but it complicates the way you play the overall character in a way that motion inputs don't. This is good for character and gameplay variety but people are lazy retards and don't want to do anything different.
>>738324945dogshit argument. kys.
>>738324945>Fighting games are the one genre where you can't have fun right out the gate.That's not entirely true at all. You have tons of people who espouse the mantra that fighting games are only fun for the first week or two where everyone has no idea what they're doing and mashing. It's all fun and games until one guy rubs braincells and learns how to chain normals into specials and figures out a bare-basic BnB, stops falling for repeated frametraps and overheads, and learns how to tech throws. Then the ones with learning disabilities get angry and say the sweats are already getting their hands on the game.Beginner mashing can be fun but sooner or later things will start making sense and only willful ignorance or legitimate mental issues will stop you from pattern recognition or something.
It's because games themselves have changed. Think to SF2. Guile's basic gameplan is Sonic Boom, Flash Kick. That's not saying he doesn't do other things, but as a beginner, you can just play knowing those two things without even learning a combo and win games. It's infamous for a reason. Combo games became more important, and with that the need to learn how to combo from your charge moves. And that means holding down or back before the move even comes out, and some of those come with restrictions. For example, you couldn't do a flash kick input out of anything but a crouching button, but since you need to be crouching for an extended period of time, you can't do a standing attack unless there's charge partitioning which is its own can of worms.
>>738324945>you can't have fun right out the gateAll you have to do is pick a character you like and start hitting buttons. As long as the game isn't throwing you against an over tuned CPU on Round 1, any idiot can have fun with the game. The game's only difficult if you're a retard who goes looking to beat 10+ year veterans.
>>738325390Command normals make charge characters super fun>I have a flash kick I can do and a crouch forward/3 input I can do that slides me forward to prime a flash kick if it lands>also have a forward-back charge that the command normal lets me prime if it landsMy only issue is grounded up-down charges and not trying to jump immediately jump cancel when I go for it.
>>738322643funny enough all the "I've played SF2 on the SNES" casual friends I have default to charge characters. clearly they didnt have a problem picking those moves up when they were children.>>738324505"remove it because experienced played can tell/can do it consistently" is how this genre was ruined in the first place.how about you let those experienced players keep what they earned, which is observational skill and gamefeel?much better than pandering to those who are too lazy and gay to spend a weekend in training mode to get charge down.it REALLY doesnt take long to learn and you will get godlike at using flashkicks way way faster than at doing reaction DPs. trust me.
>>738322643Charging is a stupid concept when your oponent can just spam quarter circles and insuting when a CPU charger spams because fuck you, the CPU can just do it without charging it just does back and forth+k or p.
>>738325390you want to combo with guile in SF2 too.if you arent doing jumpin, button, flashkick with him you are genuinely fucking up.
>>738324945Fighting games are often criticized by people who played one for 5 minutes 10 years ago and assume they know everything about it. You don't need to start up Dark Souls knowing every single item location and the exact timing of every enemy attack. You don't need to start up League of Legends knowing every move in the game including its exact damage values and range. Fighting games are fun from the getgo. It's fun to mash buttons and see some of those attacks hit. Like every other game, you can get better at it if you stick with it and try to get better. You sure don't need to do that for the game to be fun.
>>738325810I'm not saying that you never need to combo with Guile, rather that as a beginner in particular, you don't necessarily need to learn some 10-20 hit combo that requires you to charge in the middle at multiple times to actually deal damage.
>>738325991you dont have to do that in modern fighters either.
>>738322643>Charge input was literally created to be easier than quarter circle and DPMost characters in fighters would all be Guile clones moving forward if that was the case. Meanwhile, reality has quarter circle inputs be the majority of how moves are pulled across many fighters, and even some action games.
>>738326156reality has all new games using baby inputs because everything is a race to the bottom.
>>738322643>Why do '23ers find it less intuitive?They don't want to defend, they want to attack. Charge motions don't let you being so dumb attacking.And sitting down patiently waiting for the other guy to move goes against everything in their brains.
>>738326058Combo games have generally gotten shorter from what they used to be admittedly, but part of that is also because there's less charge characters. It's still not quite on the level of a simple two hits into special taking nearly half your life.
>>738326575known defensive characters, urien and balrog.
>SF2 on SNESFor my friends, it was plugging a turbo controller and picking Honda. For me, it was picking Bison, holding down and spamming R. Fun times.
>>738327120they removed the honda hands input because its too hard for retards who the games are aimed at now.
Charge characters are fucking boring. The only charge character I have fun playing is boxer. Guile and Honda suck. Chun Li is not a charge character in the same way the rest are. I don't wanna sit and crouch all game waiting for my opponent to potentially do something moronic.
>>738327702They're necessarily a bit more defensive oriented because blocking for a bit lets them use some moves that they can't use while walking forward. They're still expected to win by beating the shit out of the other guy, and have plenty of ways to attack while still charging a special move.
>>738327702> I don't wanna sit and crouch all game waiting for my opponent to potentially do something moronic.so you dislike guile.thats it.thats the only charger who plays like that.
Its kind of insane how much thought they put into Guile's move set and SF2 is still so jank
>>738327226Yes anon you are so high IQ for mashing a button very fast. Have you tried Mario Party?
>>738322643BullshitCharge inputs are difficult
>>738328694crazy how mario party is more complex than current fighters
QCF is the easiest motion input regardless of controller by far. Stick? Half circle. Dpad? Roll your thumb. Leverless? Roll your middle and index finger.
>>738329080Yes because of the riveting mash very fast gameplay.
>>738322643it's "easier" but slower than doing regular motions. If you really got regular motions down, it's much easier to be responsive and pull them off in a real match than charge moves
>>738324581means you started fighting games with sf6. 09er was for those who started with sf4
>>738329289that and many other decisions for retards who cant even handle hands.
>>738324505>>738324641>>738324718>>738324841just make it a training/tutorial thing to get a better understanding of it initially
>>738329284A big bit of context that's missing from this whole thread is that charge inputs were only easier because the input reader for specials in fighting games was a lot stricter back then.It ends up that even if you think a QCF or a DP input easy, it doesn't say so much about you but the games you're playing. Older fighting games often had code that was much more strict with what counted as a motion. A DP motion that works in one game doesn't necessarily count in another game just because the game reads it differently. There's even a few examples where the input reader for skills sucks in some games because they didn't properly account for playing with a keyboard/hitbox/etc, which can either make certain motions way harder or impossible, or even let the player cheat. I believe the original SF2 is actually one of these, where if you play on hitbox/keyboard you can walk forward while holding back at the same time, letting you do walk forward sonic booms, but don't quote me on that.If you want an extreme example, look at Street Fighter 1, where even doing a quarter circle input is just horrible. The devs even purposefully made special moves incredibly busted on purpose because the skills were so finnicky to pull off.When your frame of reference is SF1, then yes a charge input is way easier to do than a QCF.
>>738324505>>738324841Controller rumble. That way the player will know but the opponent wont.>but what about arcade sticks?millennial uncs need not apply
>charge moves all have different frame timings in sf6why?
>>738331764Just say one mississippi in your mind nigga
>>738322643it's just awkward to keep charge during combos, one of the many things ruined by combo faggotry over the years
You’re a faggot nigger with 60 iq if you play fighting games especially if you watch the Manlet ogre and speak wigger speak
>>738332449>different timingscan you read
>>738332969They're all shorter than 60 frames.
>>738322643>Charge input was literally created to be easier than quarter circle and DP. it was also attached to characters who are either designed to play super passively downbacking or who have a mash move to super easily let you buffer a chargeany character that has to charge partition feels like complete shit to play
>>738333076charge partitioning was in only one shitty SF game.
>Charge input was literally created to be easier than quarter circle and DP.>everyone in the thread agreesdid we play the same games?ALL games that introduced charge inputs were so finicky that if you mistakenly touched any direction other than the opposite of the charge, the move wouldnt come outcharge back? if you dare to touch downforward for 1 frame before you hit forward, the move doesnt come outcharge down? if you dare yo touch any diagonal before hitting up, the move doesnt come outquarter circle inputs were ALWAYS easier and faster, anyone could do one, and they could decide to do it at any time, after a jump, after getting up, after another basic hit, just decide to do it and one split second later you can do it, on the other hand charge inputs rquired much more precision and planning cause you couldn't just have the move come out when you wanted, you had to wait for the charge time to complete, which in turn required planning to hold back/down much before than any quarter circle allowedall of you who think charge inputs are easier or were even made to be easier never actually played those gamed that introduced charge inputs back when they were new, if you did, you wouldnt say they were easier, cause they 100% weren't
>>738333823>charge down? if you dare yo touch any diagonal before hitting up, the move doesnt come outyeah man guile is known for holding down all game. thats the direction thats associated with him.
>>738322643I don't like charges in SF but I do like them in KOF. That being said I still enjoy Bison quite a bit.
>>738329491What if you started with SF2? 91er?
>>738333823
>>738333823>>738334107I would really prefer it if people didnt talk out of their asses when it comes to fighting games.
>>738334038>started with sf2we call you unc or grandpappy
>>738334214kof13 stinky
>>738333813the extreme version where you can literally stop holding the direction is only in 3s, but 4/5/6 theres a lot of counter-intuitive bullshit you have to do to keep charge and do combos when motion characters can just do their move without thinking about it and that makes it more complicated then the>dude just hold back and then hit forward + punchof the 90s
How hard is it to charge Blanka or Guile’s moves buffered after something like two weak jabs? Of course the character’s boring if you’re actually walking backwards to charge their moves up, dead giveaway for your opponent. Sale with Zangief. Strong punch and then do the do the 720 during that animation for his super. I almost never even play fighting games and I can pull it off consistently with the PS5 controller.
i'm surprised i've never seen anyone make a charge bar overlay for fighting games
>>738334214this is an ash combo right? those literally aren't charge moves when he does homo install
>>738334396To clue in your opponent immediately? Yeah no thanks.
>>738334373two jabs into special is easy to do in about any game with those two.>>738334348its really just holding down back while you press your buttons.
>charge inputs>DP inputs>quarter circle inputs>half circle inputs>forward-half forward inputs>karas start playing hybrid characters, they are the most fun, piloting them feels very satisfying
>>738334396sirlin did it.his game is dogshit and none of the geniuses who come up with the same moronic ideas play it.
>>738334560all that shit, just to slop it up doing double jump jS all game long
>>738334019KOF have lower charge timing, around 30~ frames and you can hold D charge with run, result is uber aggressive charge characters.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4I_yW42JHk>>738334406Yeah sans culotte and free cancel remove charge for a set duration, but you still need for end of combo.
>>738334687Just use the god button, 6P
>>738334468>>738334658i meant coded a 3rd party program that sits a bar on top of the screen that charges whenever you start holding a direction
>>738334107>>738334153>SNES>on an emulatorcool, now go do that on an actual arcade machine, using a fight stick from the 80s/90sas i already said>all of you who think charge inputs are easier or were even made to be easier never actually played those gamed that introduced charge inputs back when they were newand your pics just proved my point, you only think it's not as hard as it actually is cause you didn't play them back when they came out, on their original hardware
>play Guile in SF6>about to sonic boom>opponent drive rushes at the same time>screen freeze either cuts fucks up my charge time or makes the game think I'm in neutral because directions are ignored during the freeze>die
>>738335108I'm sure that few couple of practice mode lua scripts give charge data.
>>738335260thats the arcade version with arcade sanwa stick and button inputs, you secondary retard.do not embarrass yourself further implying that the inputs were somehow tighter on arcade machines.
>>738335348sf6 is dogshit
>>738335786HF and Super turbo have some weird frame pacing but still don't make big difference outside of combo video fuckery.
>>738336045anything with turbo is fuck anyways. you dont even have consistency between stages.still luv HF tho
>>738335786keep proving my point, it's fun
>>738336786how about you check out some japanese arcade footage for SF2 and then kill yourself after seeing guile go from downback into sonic boom you retarded larper
>"NO HOLDING BACK">super is a back chargeis he retarded
Haven't really played modern fighters but do charge characters still generally get better normal attacks?
>>738337386>>SF6>GuileGood normals>Chun-Liit's Chun of course she has god normals>BlankaSome good normals, has a cancellable 2MK altho not a great one>BisonVery good normals, has a very good cancellable 2MK>Dee-JayKinda ok, some unusual buttons, very belligerent drive rush>Hondaanything that isn't standing medium punch is mediocre to downright bad>>Striveworth noting charge times are super low now, down to 25f>MayWarcrime normals, tons of disjoints, hard to whiff punish, always safe because Dolphin is there>LeoDecent normals, lacks disjoints, has the unique gimmick of being able to re-beat H normals into S or S into 6H>VenomNothing really crazy, has a vacuuming 6K which is good for pressuretl;dr it depends lol lmao
>>738334658He also simplified inputs in ST HD Remix and conceived Modern before they were a thing.Also, this was his proposal for the main system mechanic in SFIV.
>>738334560I liked Alex in 3rd Strike precisely for this and they ruined him.
>>738337040He wants you to hold down-back instead
>>738339321babby controls were a thing in fighters before HDR already.and that system would basically just be used like even gayer roman cancels.the only cool idea he had was for the dojo story mode.
>>738322643>Charge input was literally created to be easier than quarter circle and DP.wew boy did they fail
I count slightly faster under pressure than in the lab so I fuck up charge moves more than dragon punches.
>>738333823kek you suck.
