A lot of RTS discussion collapses "depth" into one axis, but RTS design actually spans multiple: map size and interaction density, unit/building variety, simultaneous unit counts, and how micro, macro, economy, and scale interact under pressure. StarCraft II (and similarly Warcraft III and StarCraft: Brood War) compress most decisions into small maps, tight army compositions, and high interaction density -- depth is expressed through execution, timing, and composition control. Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance spreads those same layers across scale: larger maps, multiple simultaneous fronts, higher unit counts, and economy systems that continuously interact through expansion, adjacency, and tech transitions.The interesting question isn’t "which has more depth", but which design space produces more meaningful simultaneous decisions: compressed systems where precision and timing dominate, or distributed systems where prioritization, scaling, and coordination across layers matter more.How do you personally weigh these dimensions -- map scale, unit diversity, unit counts, and system interaction -- when you think about RTS depth?
I really like the setup of FA.•T1–T3 land units (multiple roles active; tanks or bots, mobile artillery, shields, stealth, bombs)•ASF / bombers / gunships / transports•naval units (if applicable map; subs, frigates, destroyers, cruisers, shield boats, torpedo boats, battlecruisers, and battleships)•artillery / TML / nukes•engineers + reclaim + construction layers•economy structures (mexes, power, adjacency layouts)•defense layers (PD, shields, AA, walls)•T4 (a whole number of units and buildings that are balanced across various levels of effectiveness)
Why is it called a Monkeylord if it looks like a spider
>>738347282That's a good question. At least Spiderlord is available if you're making a game or other OC.
https://youtu.be/ZMHJJ7BUODI.Banger.
>ta-tards claiming their game has deeper economy when it doesn't even have the concept of an econ opening
>>738349767https://youtu.be/KA7iFUAMMGY.I'm watching this one now.
>>738350707Whole map slots are dedicated to eco. What do you mean?
tired of this supreme schizo
>>738351056in real rts games there is opportunity cost to investing in econ. you can get future resources at the cost of tempo and control
Look, there’s like billions of extremely autistic people who have studied rts genre. I just play the game bruh im not finna do this shit work. RTS balance design is literally like at the level of autonomous system engineering, that’s not something for the gamers to do. We can’t, it’s literally at too complicated of a level at this point. Which is what happens probably when there’s sports betting involved, starcraft brought some type of financial incentive to the pro sports part of it.
>>738351473SupCom eco costs mass and isn't paid back for minutes while you could be making units and buildings.
buff handcannoneers
>>738344748>but which design space produces more meaningful simultaneous decisionsStarCraft
>>738352320show me a build in a ta-like comparable to 3 hatch before pool or 3tc fast castle.
>>738353264ta-likes don't have a competitive scene
>>738353102How so? Maps are tiny, and a lot of APM comes down to repeating tasks.
KANE>KANEKANE>KANEKANE>KANEKANE>KANEKANE>KANEKANE>KANE
>>738353264If you just want to be in their base as quickly as possible, SupCom has a ton of things to do.>Com rush / with upgrades.>Bomber spam.>T1 spam.>Tank and/or mobile arty drop.>T2 rush.>Higher tech bomber rushes.It's all about being in their base as quickly as possible if you can finish up so they don't get the reclaim. T2 and T3 mexes are obviously further into the game, but that has a lot of strategies too (mobile missile launchers, TML, T3 arty, gunships, drops) and obviously has much more effect on comparative eco.
>>738354764>If you just want to be in their base as quickly as possiblethat's not what I asked, in fact it's the opposite of what I asked.
>>738354960first you need a competitive scene
>>738354365every time I see a bald person irl I think it's a Kane clone
>>738353956>Maps are tinyThey're big>and a lot of APM comes down to repeating tasks.nothing to do with decision making
>>738351473You say that as if that's not how it works in the very game you are criticizing. You just look ignorant.
>>738351473ya that's the risk of expanding in starcraft
>>738355173ok so post a build as an example
>>738355370CC first
>>738344748I'm not reading your hour long gpt video essay transcript. The logical conclusion of RTS is genre hybrid becuase it was always just purely the result of the mediums limitations. If you gave Westwood a time machine and transported them to the present to develop the first C&C, you'd get something more like Renegade meets Battlefield meets mobas.
>>738354960Then rush T2 and put a bunch of PD in your base.
>>738355370https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5moPoS_eLL4
>>738349767>5 out of 6 players are playing the OP expansion raceNice expansion fags lel
I’m convinced Iron Lore didn’t really understand what made the stronghold missions from Dark Crusade fun. The Dark Eldar stronghold I finished the fastest and I’m sure I wouldn’t have even needed to build a base at all. I ended up destroying the Dais…and the mission just ends. Same for the Necron mission being hold 4 points and destroy 4 monoliths before they rise. Timed, sure, but a very generous timer that none of them rose at all. Then you have the slog that was the Tau and Chaos strongholds. It’s all over the place.
>>738344748I can't decide if the bot that makes these threads wants to discuss supcom or prevent people from discussing supcom
>>738355936This, why would I want to talk to a chatbot here when I can just do it on chatgpt or whatever
>>738355454I'm asking for the chat gpt using ta-tard to show a build comparable to 14cc
>>738355654are you talking about static defense? that's not what I'm talking about at all. show me a build where you make econ and only econ early as a gamble so you can be rich later. in 1v1 not team shit.
>>738355148>They're bigUnits can cross the map in a few seconds. https://youtu.be/fIkTdNN3sis?t=142.>nothing to do with decision makingIt has to do with decision making because APM is the central strategic metric that defines how fun and effective momentary choices are. Doing tasks every 20-30 seconds isn't meaningful strategy. This sums up a lot of the game. The scale is small, so even though you have a lot to manage, not that much is going on. SupCom has all of land, sea, and air while setting up lots of different units and placements that arguably need to be scouted, and countered or ignored, in favor of decision making. It still has micro, yet it's magnified over various fronts. It still has macro, but sometimes you can choose turtling instead of expansion if your strategy is effective before the opponent builds up enough resources for his own. It's a fundamental RTS that doesn't inflate APM too much without making choices meaningful. SC 2 just isn't a very good battlefield.
>>738355769Cybran? How are they OP for expansion?
>>738344748RTS is just 4x lite for ADHD retards
>>738356331>>738356454Expansion with or without a FOB.T2 mex rush.All expansion in SupCom is risky.
>>738357759Yeah I was talking out of my ass. Turns out the added race was a different one
>>738358760Seraphim.
When's Legion
>>738360128FAF put in doodles. It seems OK.
>>738360984no speako gibberish
>>738361495FAF is Forged Alliance Forever, the community lobby browser and patch client.
>>738350707Yes it does. It's called building a shitton of cons first.
>>738353375You'd think that and you'd be wrong.
The more I play other RTS the more I realize that WC3 perfected the formula a long time ago.>A focus on quality not quantity>allowed players to macro their way to victory or have a small army thats well micro'd>Incentivized exploring instead of turtling>Base design is abstract but strangely intuitive >GOATed singleplayer campaign literally worth playing on its own
>>738362916Creeping is the single lamest thing in any RTS I've ever played. Grinding is shit everywhere it exists, it especially doesn't belong in RTS.
>>738362916WC3 is everything wrong with RTS games, focus is purely on micro and tactics
>>738361880Thank you schizogpt
>>738363137If the alternative is gook apm spam ill take 100 more WC3 likes>>738363015I dont even consider it grinding but rather using your army to gather resources
>>738362916If it's so great then why it is so memoryholed and dead?
>>738363362>If the alternative is gook apm spamWarcraft 3 is gook apm spam
Their are 4 types of RTS's TA Likes, Warcraft Likes, AoE likes and C&C likes. Every single RTS fits into one of these, prove me wrong.
>>738363362Beating the shit out of enemies that can barely fight back for the sake of getting XP and items is pretty much textbook grinding.
>>738363567There's also CoH likes
>>738363567Kohan.
I dream of Banishers and Basilisks hitting clumped enemy players
>>738365061Sorry I mistake it for a video that had the same thumbnailI'm stupid now
>>738363567DoW and CoH play very different thoAnd Homeworld seriesBFGA2 is vastly different but it's an RTT though ill shut it
>>738360128Now?
>>738362916>allowed players to macro their way to victory or have a small army thats well micro'dit really doesn't
>>738363567warcraft, aoe, and c&c are all descended from dune 2. the real categories are harvester income, stream income, and no income.
>>738344748"competitive" (asymmetrical, so categorically not competitive) multiplayer games don't have depth, by design
back to /vst/ unc generals aren't allowed on /v/ either
>>738365372But is it ENFORCED FUN now? no, that's the pointThat kind of fun has to be enforced down every Glitters Shitters and every Supermeme player
>>738365575say that to gachafags, tendies and pornfags
>>738362916It's incredibly shit. There's a reason why almost all activity on it was spent in custom maps that completely changed the gameplay. >GOATed singleplayer campaignLol.
nobody mentions how important the soundtrack and sound design is for a successful RTS
>>738369075because it's not
>>738363793>>738365273DoW and CoH are Wc3 likes, focusing on unit micro and asymmetrical gameplay.>>738363921Never played it but judging it solely from screenshots its a warcraft like. I could be wrong>>738365459Dune2 is just a C&C like. The factions are still called houses in the editor all the way to Generals.
>>738369075>>738369159Sound is very important for readability. I learned when playing the Warcraft 3 demake that they changed unit death sounds to multiple generic screams so you couldn't tell what units were dying even when off camera. Just having unique unit quotes like DoW or Warcraft really adds to the charm of a game. If you didn't have the combat chatter in homeworld, the game would be 50% worse.
Some anon said it a long time ago and I haven't forgotten it.>RTS became shit when it became about multiplayer.Design an RTS for good single player and you'll have a good multiplayer rts by default.Make a good multiplayer rts and you'll have absolute garbage.
>>738369159>Wololo >Prostagma >Brother, I'm pinned here>My life for Auir >Zug Zug
>>738366535>rts is on the same level as gachas, tendies, and porn nowYeah uhh I guess I'll go back to playing empires of the undergrowth...
>>738369159it may be not be a structural necessity, but it's definitely something that enhances the entire experience when good, or needlessly brings it down when bad
>me when playing eco in BARLet the goym (my team mates) deal with the fighting while I make numbers go up
>>738369660>or needlessly brings it down when badfor me, a female narrator is a dead giveaway that the audio is going to be shit
These threads are really starting to feel like a general.>>738369414Depends on how it's designed. They Are Billions is entirely singleplayer focused and it doesn't really work as multiplayer, unless you talk co-op.>inb4 muh pauseYou can have a similarly designed game without pause, the point still stands.
>>738369264>DoW and CoH are Wc3 likes, focusing on unit micro and asymmetrical gameplay.ultradumbfaggot responseKnuckle dragging detroit chimp reply
>>738369414>Some anon said it a long time ago and I haven't forgotten it.>>RTS became shit when it became about multiplayer.You haven't forgotten it cause you're a shitterThat's what you wanted to hearRTS are better than ever
>>738370269>RTS are better than everhow delusional do you need to be
>>738370321You don't play themfagfaggy faggo be a fag somewhere else where you don't play
>>738370397Why would anyone play RTS in 2026 when the last good RTS was made in 2004
>>738370397>there are good RTS games to play out there yes>RTS are better than they have ever been as a genre patently false
>>738363567What is Perimeter? Majesty? Battle Realms?
>>738370535>>738370691I've played more RTS with better netcode and remakes, remasters and sequels now than everThis is the best time to play them without issues and more community, more videos and casts and strats. Even the shitty ones like KKND or some obscure Starcraft clone is now either ported or remastered or even freeThere's even OpenRA which you can play old C&C style games and it's free. The OG ones are in Steam from EA as well. You're really really bent into the idea that RTS are in a bad state when in reality they're exactly where they've always been: just there, for you to launch themBut you won't cause you're a chickenCAW CAW CAW CAW CAW MP CAW CAW CAW CAW CAW MUH CAMPAIGN CAW CAW CAW CAW CAW
>>738371115RTS is in a bad state when you're telling me to play a remake of an RTS from the 90s, yes
>>738370886Majesty isnt an RTS, Battlerealms and all Relic games fall under Warcraft likes.
>>738370886Battle Realms is a blatant WC3 ripoff
>>738369414almost all of the games people love for single player were still designed around multiplayer.
>>738369414Not really. Designing SP and MP comes with different priorities. Singleplayer has to give the player all the cool toys, the more varied the better: campaign with cinematics, non-linear campaign map, beautiful graphics, decorative interface, lots of different units with crazy abilities, various gameplay features for added complexity (like morale, upkeep, production chains, day/night cycle, superweapons), it need to be a fun game - 'game' as in a 'plaything'.Multiplayer need to be efficient, streamlined, without unnecessary junk, actually somewhat boring at a glance because the complexity lies in interacting with randos. Balanced factions, small variety of no-nonsense units, simple gameplay, basic economy aspects, legible unobstructive graphics, clean UI, basic campaign to entice the player. Also meant to be a fun game - 'game' as in a 'sports event'.
Japs figured out RTSs already. Just have a loli next to player
>>738369264>Dune2 is just a C&C like.are you fucking stupid? dune 2 was made before c&c.
>>738372589Don't tell them or their narrative will fall off
>>738372605>This goy can't conceive both worlds being the same product
>>738372610Having a cute girl advisor like the guy in Stronghold is an interesting idea indeed. Don't think I've ever seen it done.
>>738368665Holy fuggen kinooooo
>>738372747It rarely blends well and trying to get it right inflates the budget. Totally unfeasible nowadays, you have to pick one or the other.
>>738372747Sure, you can have both, as long as you have enough rupees. The problem of RTS is that it's already a rather multifaceted genre with a lot of elements grinding against each other, and trying to get everything right is hard enough for one game mode.Fundamentally, singleplayer is more about a journey and discovery, you slowly get through challenges and get to use new tools and mechanics and see how they stack onto each other, while multiplayer is "practicing one move a thousand times", you repeat a more or less same scenario over and over with the only difference being your enemy's behavior.
>>738372610>loli advisor recommending me to kill https://youtu.be/b9-nkbzOR9A?t=516
>>738373001>It rarely blends well bcus fofofpfpffpffpfpffffrrfrfpfpfprrShut up lard lots did it exceptionally and will continue to do so
>>738373001>>738373412We have armchair economists and game designers right here todayBut you have to tell me how many you've played this week first
>>738373417Sins of a Solar Empire 1 has some surprisingly good voice acting
>>738373412The problem with RTS is shit controlsMicromanaging units in real-time is clunky
>>738368665What the fuck? Was that guy legit so stupid he couldn't figure out to aim ahead with like 10 seconds to do it?
>>738372749>Don't think I've ever seen it done.Because RTS players are fags who don't tolerate women so well in their manly battlefield power fantasy. Red Alert 3 went full retard with dolled-up slags and flopped. Anime stylization is also unlikely to work, especially since nip devs and players don't care much for PC gaming.
>>738372280battle realms not only came out first, but also served as a direct inspiration for WC3
>>738374181oh wow I thought it was the other way around
>>738344748RTS piss me off for one simple reason:>hey kids! Here's a super thematic game with all sorts of cool, zany units with neat tactical uses. How does a sneaky guy who can plant traps sound? What about a wacky mind control thing that can steal your enemy's guys? Or how about this giga weapon? That's cool right? Oh, and it's all multiplayer! Think of all the countless different ways you can play with your mates!>lel all of it is a noob trap, faggot. You need to follow this one optimised build order, use these two meta units, and either rush, skirmish, or boom whilst hoping the other nigger isn't doing the strategy that's a hard counter to you. Did you think you could do anything other than that? Fuck you. You're playing the game wrong!RTS are basically lego sets with very simple instructions, but a fuck load of optional extra pieces. And multiplayer is just a competition to see who can build the set fastest.That's why I like shit like Men of War, or Calk to Arms Gates of hell. They're not so much about building shit in the right order, as out playing your opponent. And it sucks because I also love building little bases and managing economy. But as soon as Eco is introduced to an army commanding type game, an optimal meta will arise, and all other strategies will be easily beaten before they can begin.
>>738368665lmao it's like the special olympics version of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtPMLOctBg
>>738374404you just like games that are so niche that they don't have developed metagames. if there were 50k people playing men of war competitively it would end up with tier lists and optimal ways to play too.
>>738374404There's an optimal meta in every game
>>738374404Yeah, a big difference between the presentation and practice. The games are advertised as le immersive general experience but play like speed chess.
>>738374556Yeah, you're probably right anon.Maybe it's just that I'm into the genre enough to learn to play reasonably well, but not so into it that I wanna memorise every build order and hot key.I recently did those challenges in age of empires 2 DE, and about halfway through, it occurred to me that they could just automate this shit. Like, if there's one optimised order to get through the first age, and EVERY player needs to do it in order to even have a fighting chance, then skip that bullshit.And that's basically something more akin to total war.
>>738373898I never really liked how RA3 tried to place impact on sexy women, but it was a relatively minor issue overall.And while japs don't really do much with RTS, I know chinks love CnC games, though they only did some mobileshit parodies I think, never proper games. And mods, I they did plenty of mods. Maybe someone from over there will decide make a competent anime RTS at some point. Or rather, they're the ones that I feel most likely to do it. I mean, they've got a fucking Tom&Jerry gacha thing going on, who knows what other weird shit can they spawn.
>>738374624Sure, but I think the difference between meta play and non meta play is just so much more stark in RTS than say, Quakelikes
>>738374719>Maybe someone from over there will decide make a competent anime RTS at some point.ImagineNIKKE RTS
>>738374719>gachaIf you're fine with that, maybe it could happen. Because gacha pretty much overpowered other models of serious anime game dev.
>>738374814gacha rts would be a fucking nightmare to make and profit off though
>>738374624And sometimes that optimal meta is pretty open and playing optimally doesn't involve dragging my balls across broken glass.
>>738374801Quake is an extremely bad example because a player who knows what he's doing is going to shit all over someone who doesn't have movement and map control down.
>>738374943It would be on the level of Clash Royale and Warcraft Rumble at best.
>>738374926They still do anime soulslikes and metroidvanias and roguelikes and whatnot. And there was that XCOM clone from gacha devs that I heard was decent.Besides, gacha market is already fairly saturated, and it'll be only harder to squeeze in further down the line.
>>738375263>soulslikes and metroidvanias and roguelikesI said 'serious game dev'. Those are a lot easier to make (and easier to sell) then even a moderate-effort anime RTS. I guess silly kusoge would not be out of the question, tho.>gacha market is already fairly saturatedWhich means that millions of weebs are busy with them and can't be arsed to pick up a game you have to pay for first. Gacha market seems pretty dynamic, games go into and out of service and various gameplay ideas are being tried. It could happen.
I miss the /vst/ thread about custom units.In the end it was mostly spammed with people dumping their entire 2-edgy-4-you faction or bland stat block, but there was some truly retarded units in there that I would love to see in an actual game.
>>738363567Homeworld, Dungeon Keeper and Populous 3 would like to know which category they are.
>>738376989Battlezone, Sacrifice and Black&White would be happy to know too.
>>738344748I'm not interested in sixty clicks per second gameplay competing online against Korean niggers.
I am forgotten...
>>738377851and good riddance too
>>738378008Why? It was a very fun SC2 clone
>>738378029>SC2 cloneRest in piss.
>>738378029>very funwhat the fuck is wrong with you
>>738378029outside of some QoL that simplified basebuilding and worker management this game didn't do anything that SC2 hadn't already offered
R.U.S.E. just rereleased. Probably the only RTS I've liked playing in multiplayer because of its simplicity, since the APM wank isn't that bad and it's more about unit positioning. Couldn't ever get into Wargame since it was too autistic for me. >1200 players 24h peak>600 playing an hour agoGod damn it.
>the best RTS game with excellent controls, no gookclick and matches in lobbies only already exists>you can mod it to your heart's content>/v/ won't play itexplain
>>738378528looks ugleh
>>738362563No competitive scene
>>738378350How to cope with low player count?
>>738378543It look like a toy commercial.
>>738357394>Units can cross the map in a few seconds.depends on the map and the army>Doing tasks every 20-30 seconds isn't meaningful strategy.But the rest of the game is.
>>738378543>>738378753>the blizzdrone cannot refute any of my arguments to he resorts to muh gfx
>>738378528no depth. It's just a wow! so many units! simulator for 20 apm dads
>start mission>can't tech up because this will force me to build buildings on roads >lose
games like warno/wargame are far superior to the base building garbage with micromanaging for resourceshaving a 'deck' of units that you deploy in a battalion and then battling it out and bringing in your reinforcements is an amazing way to do rts
>>738353264Aeon rush RAS.
>>738378807I accept BAR and Zero-K for being QoLslopYes, it's very gameplay-optimizedNo, I'm still not playing them becuse they're UGLEH
>>738378837actual retard
>>738378807>muh blizzardIt's weird how Starcraft completely buckbroke all supcom/ta/bar fags, somehow.And now they behave like jeets.>"saar, you bloody benchod do not like the brahmin game? you just must be pakistani blizzard!"Hilarious.
>>738379084no competitive scene for a reason
RTS players are a peculiar bunch. When some dev makes yet another WWII shooter, people get excited for a new game. When a new RTS is made, players say 'why play it when I already have Brood War?'.
>>738379197>When a new RTS is made, players sayThey get extremely hyped and donate 3 million to kickstarter and every RTS content creator talks about it for 4 years and then the game turns out awful and forgotten.
>>738379281everyone saw that SG was shit the moment they released actual gameplay though
>>738379326right but the hype was there
>>738379197a significant majority of RTS "fans" think that a gook clicking his SCV for 300 times a minute is the absolute peak of skill expression
>>738344748aoe2 does it best imo, 80% of the build tree is universal with the each civilization having access to 5-10% of the last 20%. alongside unique bonuses for playing in a specific way for each civ.its cool cause at the end of the day the vast majority like probably 95% of combat units in every game are just the same 4-5 excluding regional variants, so players aren't bloated with oh what's this unit what does it do.And the unique civ units end up being so late in the game they rarely get used.
>>738363567SettlersStrongholdSins of a Solar Empire
>>738379348they click the scv 300 times while out playing you in every other way.
>>738379197Who the FUCK is excited for a WW2 shooter in 2026?! We've had more than enough of those in the 00sAs for RTS it is simple, it needs to be better than games from 30 years ago, which is almost never the case
>>738379197its like fighting games people get excited then realize the skill curve is so high why do i want to play something where I constantly have to get better. When i can play a Moba and just scream at my teammates for me being shit.
>>738379380It's an underrated idea. Devs have been trying to make a new Starcraft since forever when they could make just one well-designed faction that's perfectly balanced against itself.
>>738379389>settlers>strongholdcity builder with bad combat>sins4x with real time battles
>>738379536The main difference here is that RTS games can thrive purely on single player content unlike fighting games.
>>738378528>>738378807Show me good hero defense map made in bar map editor. Though so.
>>738379750sc2 coop was what RTS needed to stay mainstream and it came way too late. a progression system with multiple different hero/perks was great.and arcade obviously was amazingsingle player rts is just story mode most people don't even play it. fighting games have the same thing in story mode with new character patches. Neither of which have much staying power
>>738379452>As for RTS it is simple, it needs to be better than games from 30 years ago, which is almost never the caseThe funny thing is, most other genres haven't really progressed past games from 20-30 years ago. Fancy grafix is pretty much the only difference. And how do you improve it? What can you add?
>>738379568Fuck off. If your rts doesn't have at least 3 distinct factions with different ways to acquire resources and robust but simplestupid map editor together with support for custom lobbies then it is a shit rts.
>>738379568agreedI like starcraft, 3 races gimmick but its a huge wall for new players. Meanwhile aoe2 you're basically playing the same race no matter which civilization matchup and it feels almost like tweaking a perk tree by picking a civ with the bonuses you like to play with most.
>>738374707>>738374404>I need a Russian General Simulator where everyone sucks my dick for group selecting and A-moving without regard for unit viability
>>738379953>I like starcraft, 3 races gimmick but its a huge wall for new players.You know SC is the best selling RTS and it isn't close? New players love unique races.
>>738379452>As for RTS it is simple, it needs to be better than games from 30 years agoyou do realize no one played starcraft they played the arcade mode. the RTS genre literally died and got replaced by the MOBA genre because resource management was a chore.That's how things go RTS is dead because a new genre came out that only kept the parts most people want.
>>738380021RTS is dead because Blizzard is dead.
>>738380018ya grandpa and you know what would happen if you released it today? it'd die because people grew out of that tedious genre.Also actually aoe2 has sold more copies then broodwar and sc2, bit cheating since its still being updated but ya
>>738356454Closest thing would be opening with engineers only. Send most out to grab expansion mexes, drop them with transports, use rest to build power/factories/T2 tech/T2 mexes.
>>738380110>Also actually aoe2 has sold more copies then broodwar and sc2Nope.
>>738380059blizzard killed it because they saw the end of the genre. then failed with dota all stars trademark cause they're goddamn slackers. its a shame cause heroes of the storm was actually a really good moba game and the closest you'd get to least toxic moba genre since individual deaths don't punish the team that much.
>>738378528>>738344748I don't like TotalAnihilation-likes I seems that people liking them just have a fetish for mass of units on the screen
>>738380195>blizzard killed it because they saw the end of the genreBlizzard was bought out and they turned into a console slop maker
>>738380172ok so you just don't know what ur talking about then glad you've shown that.you can look up the numbers yourself, and no you can't combind sc2 and broodwar sales that'd be retarded
>>738380312>you can look up the numbers yourselfI did and SC1 is still the best selling RTS by far. When you add SC2 it blows out AoE even further.
>>738380335ok troll w/e you say. not wasting time arguing with someone full of shit
>>738379882>And how do you improve it? What can you add?Snowbreak.But RTS.And like WCIII it's mostly melee combat. With a lot of sweat, mud and grappling.
>>738380449https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games
>>738363567yesand this divides the already small RTS community and every new release becomes a shit flinging fest about who can hate their flavor of RTS harderjust read this thread ffsthere's a reason literally every single RTS release in the last 10 years has been indie
>>738380829Well the autistic OP for these threads hates everything but supcom and is looking for a argument so he gets one. The real RTS community doesn't concern itself with such things.
>>738380001Every RTS trailer shows off cool stuff like big armies marching and clashing against each other. They don't show pro play like four archers harassing villagers for twenty seconds to give the opponent an irrecoverable disadvantage. The expectations and reality of multiplayer are world apart, pretty much false advertising.
>>738381125probably because that's not fun
>>738381219Uhm, sorry hun, but winning IS fun
>>738381125>Army adverts show cool CoD shit but when I deployed they shoved an FPV drone up my assAdverts are for cattleGood to know it works
>>738380195Consider it mercy killing at this point. Imagine the rapage inflicted to the franchise if they made a 'World of Starcraft'.
>>738378775You think you can compress micro and macro into a small map and have more simultaneous and meaningful actions than a larger map with more types of units and buildings?
>>738379191What's that?
>>738380195Blizzard was dead when WoW launched and became a success.Bros making stuff they thought was cool was replaced with a soulless content mill
>>738379105Let me know when SC gets more than like a 1% retention rate.
>>738382446>doubling down on the "saar, everyone who don't like me is pakistan, saaaaaar!" mindsetAnon, I haven't given a shit about SC since at least 20 years. You should try doing the same, instead of going into some third-world style paranoid hysteria about it whenever something is upsetting you.
>>738379348I disagree. Most people see through artificial APM.
>>738353264>M-muh build ordersUnironically, genuinely stick to starcraft; it already delivers what you want, and you don't need to look for that in other games.
>>738381980>Blizzard was dead when WoW launchedwhat
>>738379197>why play it when I already have Brood War?'You can't think a majority of RTS fans play BW.
>>738379568>Devs have been trying to make a new Starcraft since foreverName 3.
>>738379882Approximately every genre is on the edge of large innovation. Shooters' is a centered reticule with bouncy recoil and mobility that's multi-directional dodges like Advanced Warfare.
>>738380021RTS will be like the 3rd most played genre when we're all playing games together. I'm sure it will be SupCom or a new TA-like.
>>738380217SupCom has more units and buildings than other games. It leads to more strategy.
>>738383326You can't think that was a literal statement. It's a frequent sentiment among RTS fans - they have favorite games they played for decades and when something new comes along they compare it with games already made. If it looks like X, they won't play it because they already have X. If if looks different, they won't try it because it's unfamiliar and weird.Especially compfags, after spending hundreds of hours to get gud, would rather not start from scratch trying to learn a different game as a noob.
>>738383919>if looks different, they won't try it because it's unfamiliar and weird.there are no "different" RTS games though, everyone just clones games from 20 years ago
RTS games are not about strategy or big brain thinking they're about managing a bunch of shit in real time which is mechanically difficult. This esoteric knowledge has been lost on game developers who keep sharting out RTS adjacent slop.RTS games that give you unlimited building selection, unlimited unit selection, unlimited build queues, automine, smartcast, flow field pathfinding, 3d graphics etc can never maintain a community, but 2d, tile based, limited selection, poor pathfinding, no automine, no smartcast etc games are still going strong approaching 30 years later.Adding all of these "smart features" doesn't improve an RTS it removes the RT and focuses on the S which is the weakest and most limited part of the experience. You play a faction with max 30 possible units to field, some of them will not be the appropriate choice given the map or matchup, so the strategy part of this is extremely limited. This is an extremely unpopular opinion in a community where people have cultivated a genius military general idea of their game.You hear the same disparaging>But it's just pushing buttons faster!!type of reductionist shit every time, as if all games are not simply pushing buttons/inputs for the desired result. RTS games should return to being janky and just a bit user unfriendly since that is the essence of the gameplay. I understand that TA and Supcom fags will seethe over this because they enjoy the bells and whistles, nothing wrong with that, but nobody will be playing Beyond All Reason in 2040.
>>738384991>Popular = good.Soon, anon.
>>738384991Imagine if they kept all those QoL features but actually made an RTS game require strategy aswellThen finally we'd have an RTS instead of a skirmish micromanagement game
>>738384991>Gamers are too stupid for strategy, let's give them a UI puzzle to optimize instead so our RTS will sell
>>738385148In this case I think it speaks to the fact that some games are being played decades later while others are being dropped quickly or dead on arrival. If all of the innovative new features being added are good, why doesn't anyone want to play it?This is always dismissed by>It's because those people are stuck in the glory days and just want to play the same gameOk then make an RTS with the same anti-features and jank?>NO that isn't innovative you need to push the envelope people want new thingsDo they or don't they? I don't want a 3D RTS game at all, I want units locked into no more than 16 directional sprites with limited color palettes, that way you can always tell what's going on. I want limited unit selection so I can't roll a max population army around with 1a , and I want them to bounce off each other like retards so my army doesn't form a perfect watery blob.
>>738385865People play more RTS games than Starcraft bro
>China will grow larger.
>>738385865You can always play starcraft forever.
>>738385865>Jank.Are you just talking about BW?>I don't want a 3D RTS game at all, I want units locked into no more than 16 directional sprites with limited color palettesSo go play BW.Alternatively, go play FAF and get used to a much larger selection of strategies.
Is there a RTS like Dune where you have to transport resources back to your base but there's more than one kind of resource?I like Supreme Commander but it's kinda silly how you can magically send power and mass to your factories through magic wifi.
>>738387851Starcraft, with crystal and gaz?Warcraft with gold and wood and petrol?AoE2 with gold, food, wood, stone?Empire Earth with gold, wood, stone, steel (not sure, been a while)?C&C too, if you count different colors of tiberium/minerals as different.
>>738387851Stronghold? All your workers have to carry stuff around and there's a lot of resource types.
>>738354365Tenkyuu Chimata lives!Pierce with shamicola!Top kek!
>>738387851>I like Supreme Commander but it's kinda silly how you can magically send power and mass to your factories through magic wifi.That's how quantum entanglement is going to be.
>>738380217People disliking TA clones is like people disliking Quake clones
Stop talking about Starcraft. MOBAs do not belong in this thread.
>>738387851>>738388818Also, it's basically the same in other games except for the two feet you have to deliver before it's magi'd to your global stores.
>>738383374Priority Survive, Atrox, and Vital Device.
>>738388904The image makes a point, but don't be silly about what genre SC is.
>>738374404>RTS are basically lego sets with very simple instructions, but a fuck load of optional extra pieces. And multiplayer is just a competition to see who can build the set fastestThis is the best definition of the genre i have ever seen.
>>738388954Nice. Literally who, though.
>>738389132literal abandonware
>>738384991Low IQ and low testosterone. RTS is about everything. It's about the micro, the macro, the tactics and the strategy. You have to be good at all of it, not just one part. When Starcraft leaned on mechanical skill, strategy and tactics came at a loss. Boys like idealised and simplistic mechanics with a reliable learning and practice experience where they can just keep practicing this thing for their "skill expression". Men with chest hair explore into the unknown, and play RTS games with simulated projectile physics and get into the gritty mess of pure chaotic raw unfiltered tactics, micro and strategy. All of it simultaniously. 100% brain usage all the time. RTS is not meant for you.
>>738374719>>738373898>Red Alert 3 went full retard with dolled-up slags and floppedMeh. The whores were ok but yes, we don't care for hoes in RTS games. Manly men respect brothers in arms, not whores in costumes. Tim Curry and the other male actors did great, the whores were just eyecandy. Graphics wise RA3 is great, combat wise RA2 Mental Omega is where the deal is sealed.
>>738374404Fortunately this problem has been solved by real RTS.https://zero-k.info/mediawiki/Cold_Takes/2_-_Quant%27s_Rule
>>738389405There aren't any high strategy RTS games
>>738388904if I was a little more autistic I'd make a similar image decrying TA as a shit game because you don't have to care about logistics of supplying missiles and shells to your bots and my example of a good strategy would be Submarine Titansand then I would spam it everywhere here nad on /vst/
>>738388912Is there an rts game where you didn't have a "global" store and each of your factories had their own store of materials?
YOO THIS GAMEPLAY FIRE
>>738389405Based anon. Base building is one aspect alone, an important one, but not the only one.
>>738389614Projectile physics steers the game away from the retardation of Starcraft. There's a big difference between gameplay physics and realism. The scope of Total Annihilation is far bigger than Starcraft since Starcraft fell for the trap of idealism.
>>738389614Do it, you are neurodivergant enough for it.
>>738389614>Submarine Titansis this actually good
>>738379105It's mainly a samefagging autist. Very high power level.
>>738389948it's janky but an ok gameI'm merely bringing it up because it's the only strategy I could think of that has you fielding lots of ranged mechanical units with limited ammo (realistic) that require either supply ship runs, or going back to base to ammo depots to continue firing
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5xTD-H9D-gOH NO NO NO NO
>>738369264CoH with its cover based mechanic is nothing like Warcraft 3 moron
>>738373001Old school Blizzard perfected it and you think it is impossible nowadays. That is called a lack of vision my friend.
>>738390181>60 APMHoly mother of sweatlord tryhard.Proper strategy only require a single order a the right time, then everything fall into place - all according to keikaku.If it need more than one action per game, it's not actual strategy but gookclicking.
>>7383905201 APH chads rise up
>>738379191>no competitive sceneThis is a blessing
>>738390520
>>738388912I wish their were more races in FAF
>>738389132You asked for 3 and i gave you 3 starcraft clones.
>>738390909what faction would you add?
>>738390181this video is bullshithes just doing the less important things slow but anytime there is a battle hes spiking.yeah no shit that's beneficial slow people are slow AT ALL times
>>738391049>slow people are slow AT ALL timesSlow people shouldn't play video games. Their opinions irrelevant because they can't even beat Doom
>>738378029>see video of the audio guy fellating himself>play game>sound levels all fucking over the place>some red guy starts talking, can't hear anything he's saying because everything over 20 hz has been deleted and the rest has been boosted to 300 decibels>quit game, the audio gets set to 11 for about 100 milliseconds for some reasonThat's not even getting into the actual issues.>move mouse to the side of the screen>mouse pan mode gets stuck, when I move the mouse away it's just still fucking stuck and moving my screen into the edge of the map, have to put the mouse back on the edge and take it off to try and unfuck the controls>clicks don't register unless you have exactly 60 FPS, like they don't have any devices to test <60 FPS systems>fucking Indian protagonist why the fuck are they talking to SBI about making the game>only actual White coop commander is the fucking big head on the purple guy's shield>blackade, are you fucking kidding me???>10 dollars per commander, apparently coop is disable now that they're becoming translan
>>738391049Spam clicking movement orders also artificially makes apm bigger
>ftl engines in lore>have to manually lead your proyectilesIs "rocket jumping ninjas" all over again>he doesn't want to be a cute whore retardyour choice I guess>high testosterone>high iqThat's a mutant or genetic experiment from a shadow governmentAnd that's why I only especially play Starcraft Broodwar, GreyGoo, Homeworld and S4League.
>>738374404So what's the build order meta of SupCom FA?
>>738391041QAIMake his units looks like a mix of cybran and seraphim. Rogue/Pirate CommandersBasically just regular UEF but with cheaper & weaker units that look beat upInsect RaceSwarms and swarms of bugsLovecraftian nightmare elder godIts attracted to alm the fighting so it popped over for a look.All its units are organicI want SupCom but just more of it. Endless factions, endless units, endless campaign, more. MOARRRR
>>738389689What exactly is the reference?
>>738344748What are some RTS games with world conquest modes? What games give me a huge map with different regions I can take and get bonuses for controlling?
>>738391703I would add a megacorp that monopolizes the mass and power generation of the planets they control. They also enslave symbiotes like the UEF. Their units would all be weirdly steampunkish.
>>738391703>Rogue/Pirate CommandersNomads?
>>738392016Dawn of War Dark Crusade/SoulstormWarlords Battlecry 3
>>738389614>you don't have to care about logistics of supplying missiles and shells to your botsKinda sounds like Triplanetary, a hexgrid based boardgame where you have to autistically manage your fuel and munition usage.
>>738392191Anything that puts any kind of emphasis in "logistics" will put the gameplay down the grinderLogi is an important, VERY important part of warfare alright but playing as someone needs to care of it just sucks unless you are one of those people who play Logi in Foxhole and Arma events
>>738392120Add in Nomads along side them. Maybe give them more generic looking units? Home built but not as fucked up as the pirates. Im in regardless. MOARRRRRR!!!!>>738392048That would be wild! Maybe its a conglomeration of all the defense contractors or something. I like your style.
>>738390181>only in single playerYes, give me conquest mode over MP any day.
Supcom economy has zero depth because there's only one answer, expansion is always good, you don't have to consider the availability of different resources in regards to how the map is arranged and the needs of your army build and relative to the enemy's own considerations, no, if there's a resource node available somewhere, taking it is always the right move, if there's a bunch of mass lying somewhere, it's always a net positive to collect it, you don't have to think about the shape of the wood line and how that relates to the overral operational picture in the match you are in, more resource == more gooder, a game for simpletons.
>>738392016Battle for Middle-Earth 2
>>738392324Nah, it's ok. We do some risky manoeuvreing, get hit by a stray torpedo that disables the engines and we crash into the fucking moon.
>>738363567Homeworld, company of heros
>>738392436>conquest mode over MP any day.Play 4X or Total War. The entire genre was designed for slow boomers. In conquest you play against stupid AI. It can only be interesting if you're bad at RTS and have learning disabilities so you can't get better at video game. If you're bad at RTS it's better to play 4X because you will not notice the difference.Hard facts.
>>738384991>but nobody will be playing Beyond All Reason in 2040.Yes they will, why the fuck wouldn't they? BAR itself has been played going on 20 years now. It used to be called Absolute Annihilation and then Balanced Annihilation. You could go back and play any given version of BA and it's 90% the same game.
>>738392439You don't need multiple resources to add depth to economy. Depth can emerge simply by having a different pacing in the game. Supreme Commander is very slow paced and the commanders are very powerful, which allows for greedy expansions without getting punished. In Zero-K, you can get punished for being too greedy, yet you can also form a strategy of effective radar coverage and positioning to allow for a greedy expansion.Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeFfu0CI0Y and be amazed.
>>738392324Logistics adds a 4th type of gameplay management, support, to micro, basebuilding, and eco -- land, sea, and air. It would be a lot of work on an already dense APM theater, and you're right: I don't think it would be very fun.
>>738344748RTS retards falling for a literal copy and paste AI post.
>>738392439>there's only one answer, expansion is always good,And then you remember your enemy exists.
>>738393416Most people here play against AI
>>738378528People saying that won't play it won't play anythingThey're para social and their gimmick is to say that everything sucksBAR is everything you could ask for the game it wants to be, casual modes, competitive enough, moddable as fuck, open source, great graphics, tons of content and it's free.
>>738393730>great graphicslol
>>738384991I do not play RTS to play an action game. The strategy layer on the garbage you play is thin because they care more about the action than the strategy.
I play BAR for the artillery porn
>>738392439>Supcom economy has zero depth because there's only one answer, expansion is always goodIt's not. Especially T2 and T3 mexes are very expensive with long repay times, and in the early game or under spending pressure, you might not have the capability, including engies, to build shields, point defense, tactical missile defense, perhaps shield assist to counter stationary arty (or make arty of your own), and nuke defense. Especially in the early game when point defense is hard countered by a cheap T1 unit and bombers one-hit engies, expansion can lead to some extra mass, but it's not a game deciding factor unless you're on a tiny map where every unit matters. Mid to late game on larger maps, expansion is important but potentially comes at a huge cost.>Having to think about the shape of the wood line and how that relates to the overall operational picture.>Compelling.>Fun.I would doubt it's even math'd out and is guess work.Don't you want to control lots of units, employ vastly greater strategy in variety and effectiveness, and greatly affect the enemy eco with land, sea, and air?
>>738393730I would love to play BAR again if it would stop trying to melt my PC.
>>738378528Zero-K is simply better.
>>738393896>Don't you want to control lots of units, employ vastly greater strategy in variety and effectiveness, and greatly affect the enemy eco with land, sea, and air?all units are soulless drones
>>738392439You're right about the economy being simplistic but there's a good deal of strategy in figuring out what units to build when and what units will counter your enemies units. Like if I'm playing aeon I'll build a scout for every five or so tanks so they have radar coverage and can fire at units outside their line of sight
I don't care about balanceI don't care about depth I want fun
>>738393978That's how it's going to be.Surely people would prefer futurism to (non-fantasy?) humanoids.
>>738393857>The strategy layer on the garbage you play is thinYou think it is but it isn't.
>>738393981Every RTS has that
>>738394278Nope. If you remove actions from the equation the answer is always obvious.
>>738392875I don't really know what are you so proud about, any RTS that caters to MPfags is dead in the water.I do play Total War and also Supcom, AoE4 and M. Can't wait for Dorf, DoW4 and TW40k (and Med3 in the distance)Meanwhile you can bet your ass that any MP focused game will be dead in a day.
>>738393954I tried zero-k back in the day and all the enemys would perfectly skirt around my gun ranges and never engage. I had like 4 turrets set up and they would just walk outside perfectly skirting the circle. I never looked back.
>>738394358Yeah that's why mechanical skill is important
>>738394436You literally just admitted I was right, idiot.
>>738394476I'm arguing for the real time in real time strategy
RTS needs to be combined with deck building, hero powers, and actual map objectives. There is Skylords Reborn which is really close.
>>738394359>any RTS that caters to MPfags is dead in the water.Because they're bad RTS? When RTS is good for MP it is good RTS. People don't like to play shit RTS in multiplayer. And it is natural for human being to want some challenge in video games. Smart AI etc. Sadly this is something both RTS and 4X don't deliver on purpose (and because devs are shit) while fans are capable to do it for free (FAF AI)
>>738394375>not thinking ahead and using that to your advantage
>>738393896Of course you can't math it out perfectly, it's humanly impossible, so you use your tactical/strategic intuition, that's the fun part.
>>738393978So? Why is this something people bring up as an argument against supcom? The whole point is that the commanders are capable of printing out legions of death machines within few minutes of being ported to a world.
>>738394359>any RTS that caters to MPfags is dead in the watergenre has been MP focused since 1995.
>>738394704>Because they're bad RTS?Massive cope, I won't even read the rest.
>>738395150generic soulless units is a huge problem
>>738394640>deck buildingkysUnless you mean like PA:Titans Galactic Conquest then dont kys, I want you to fuck me.
Okay, any good RTS games available on GOG that would you recommend to me? I would really like to play some and I'm a bit tired of playing "campaign" in Dark Crusade after doing it three times in row.Secondary question, how does the "C&C Collection", on Steam works? Does it require EA application/account or whatever? Or it's 100% standalone?
>>738378528I like how BAR makes multiple different playstyles viable. Especially in team games, you can do anything from going full eco jewlord financing your entire team all the way to pure aggression sending out swarms of t1 attack bots to overwhelm enemy positions within the first few minutes of the game. The game is very well ballanced and no strategy feels overall the best and most optimal.
>>738395204Name GOOD RTS that pandered to MPfags and failed.The hidden gem with good gameplay. >inb4: ground control 2
>>738395252>muh units have to have le funny voice lines for them to have soulRetarded point to make about Supcom/TA likes when the entire premise of these games has always been that the units are literally disposable machines being spammed out en mass in an endless war where humanity has become either entirely lost or been reduced to the role of singular commanders leading massed legions of drones.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mZZiI4ShQYou are essentially bitching against the entire fucking premise of these games.
>>738395313aggressive or econ builds common in rts
>>738390481It doesn't take a visionary to notice that selling competitive multiplayer games in current year is crazy risky. Most fail in a matter of months. If you can't fully commit to maintaining a healthy multiplayer community long-term, you might as well not bother at all and keep it singleplayer.
>>738395504>it's supposed to be shit! the lore says so!>now you like it right?No.
>>738395537>Build normal units first>Build a ton of constructor units firstVery difficult.
>>738395307Dark Omen and Shadow of the Horned Rat.
>>738395601Your opinion is shit. Kill yourself.
>>738392016Emperor: Battle for Dune, zones there have secondary objectives that can benefit you overallMindustry, although it's more of a TD than proper RTS, and each territory taken only helps gather resources faster as each zone is active even if you're not in them.
>>738394704nta but my problem with MP-focused RTS titles (e.g. Starcraft) is that gameplay that's tailored for MP balance, often feels overtuned and boring in a SP environment.You need a certain amount of questionable design choices and weird shit, and sometimes downright cheese, for a memorable RTS singleplayer campaign, IMO (and not just in the cutscenes).
>>738395307> good RTS games available on GOG Homeworld?The "Collection" has the OG Homeworld 1 and is on sale right now apparently.They also sell Homeworld:Convergence, which is the true sequel to Homeworld 1 and one of the rare actual horror-themed RTS.You can play Homeworld 2 if you want, but it's the point where the series started going in a retarded direction.
>>738395739You like soulless garbage. Don't talk.
>>738395504>the entire premise of these games has always been that the units are literally disposable machines being spammed out en mass in an endless war where humanity has become either entirely lost or been reduced to the role of singular commanders leading massed legions of drones.Wow, that's gay.
>>738395307
>>738395307Warlords battlecry 3
>>738395537Of course but in BAR to me it feels that the ballance between these playstyles is very well done. The ability to generate resources via mass converters and build "tall" as opposed to expanding massively across the map is far more viable in BAR and other supcom/TA like games, than in something like Starcraft for example, where resources are exhausted eventually, thus forcing you to expand. While map control in BAR and other games of this type is of course still massively important, it isn't as existential as it is in a lot of other rts games.
>>738395778Nah you can do any wacky shit you want in SP with good balance. You can modify units power for unique scenarios. Like bro Warcraft 3 is legendary RTS with perfect balance and peak campaign with unique missions.
>>738395778Starcraft SP has special rules.
>>738395307Dungeon Keeper. The extension Deeper Dungeons is more puzzle-ish than actual RTS so playing it is a personal choice.DK2 is meh.
Go back >>>/vst/
How many RTS' do resource refinement? Been thinking about ways to add something actually new or at least lesser seen to the genre and a change tot he way resources work could be one.A kind of middle ground between instant availability (AOE, SC, literally everything really) and resource streaming. (TA/SUPCOM, BAR C&C)
I dislike micro intense games for assburger reasons. I want to feel like I command an army and having to wipe the ass of every single one of my soldiers ruins it. I like it when they have some agency.Been playing Original War lately and the units soldiers will help out with building and retreat on their own when injured etc. It's great.
>>738394640So Age of Empires 3?
>>738395965Only one of those games has been tested competively against a well trained opponent. Starcraft has aggressive and econ builds, slow and fast at the highest level.Of course BAR (or any other casual game) allows you to do whatever you want, your opponent is 45 yr old dad gamer with 20 apm who has to log off soon to pick up the kids. If BAR actually had people trying to win you would see a very different meta.
>>738395986>>738396007WC3 an SC both bored me completely, aside from certain cutscenes.
>>738396282well maybe rts isn't for you
>>738395026I walled off the map with those turrets, built up and stomped the comp because it refused to engage. Idk, that was back when it came out but I never looked back
>>738395870It is a different power fantasy, where humanity has become wholly eclipsed by the scale of warfare being waged. I appreciate how everything in Supcom for example is exactly to in universe scale, with even the most basic units the different factions print out being building sized death machines. These individual units don't need "personality" because their role is to be produced and sent to die within the span of few minutes in order to keep the war grinding on.This dynamic shows very well in BAR when the game gets to the point where players have enough economy to just send endless autoproduced waves of grunts/pawns/goblins against each other in order to overwhelm the enemy lines with sheer numbers and reduce the effectiveness of high damage/low rate of fire t2 units. It would go entirely against the spirit of these games for these units to be "characterized" in any way. Their purpose is to be mobile weaponized mass/metal that blanket the battlefield and are destroyed just as fast as they are created.
>>738396463Ya like how the Zerg send billions of mindless drones into the enemy and consume entire planets? Zerg still have personality.
>>738395504>>738396463Couldn't they just make faction that uses clones, biobots or Cyborgs, I don't know, anything that isn't just blocky bots?
>>738396560Your definition of "having a personality" is certainly differen than mine
>>738396235BAR has a competitive scene m8. And my point was more about the inherent game design difference between TA likes and something like Starcraft, because TA likes actually allow you to generate resources via infrastructure as well as via nodes on the map, enabling something that is literally impossible in a lot of rts games, or very unviable in others as in how you can sort of "generate" resources in Age of Empires via trade and buying stuff from the market building with the gold.
>>738396698And what is yours? Boring designs?
>why I can't turtle in mp fucking apm cucks no strategy it's just build order apm au->AoE2>high ELO mlg pro match>4 hours long>-ACKENTER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-sobmabFvg
>>738396663The UEF is the only one "blocky" bot faction, the others are either "edgy and spikey", "smooth circles and minimalistic" or "we hate symmetry"
>>738396720>BAR has a competitive scene m8lol
>>738396845okCouldn't they just make faction that uses clones, biobots or Cyborgs, I don't know, anything that isn't just blocky bots or ipads with guns?
>>738396838Watching AoE2 casts it looks a lot more fun than BAR/SupCom
>>738396838AOEbeasts are another breed.Isn't that a random match that went on for like 12 hours?
>>738396907>anything that isn't muh gookcraft ain't competitive.
>>738396940Feels like you just hate robot units for some retarded reason.Why do you need units in a game like this to have some quippy voice lines anyways?
>>738396463So there isn't a debate over quantity and quality in this game? Just more spam is always objectively better?
>>738397054is anyone making a living playing BAR?
>>738396235BAR has people trying and you see a pretty large variety of strategies at the highest level, including, yes, an econ opening and an aggressive all in opening. I've seen both from the same guy in tournaments. I really cannot help you if you whine about the nonexistence of strategies because you're too dumb to map what people do in BAR to what people do in Starcraft.
>>738397121boring looking robots yea
Is that.. a heckin ORGANIC HUMAN BEING??? AIIIEEEE SAVE ME MECHMAN
>>738397278>at the highest levelWhich is pathetically low because there is no real competition
>>738397135Of course there is. But at certain levels of economy, quantity begins to have quality of it's own. Early game spam is actually rather risky because resources you spend on such spam are not spent on building up your economy which slows you down, and if you lose those units you may end up buffing your enemy's economy due to them being able to reclaim those units.The type of "wasteful" mass spam I am talking about is more of a late game element where the unit spam is more of a means of overwhelming enemy defenses and forcing the enemy to focus more on directly controlling their high damage dealing units so that they fire at appropriate targets rather than waste their shots on the chaff units. Such mass spam can of course be countered by some end game units as well quite effectively so it isn't like it is an universally "I win" option but it is a very viable means of punishing an opponent that has not taken into the account the fact that end game economies make it just as possible to just spam tons of t1 units as they make it possible to build t3/experimental units/nukes/end game artillery etc.
>>738397142>you can't have a competitive scene if someone isn't being paid to play the gameWhat sort of brainrot is this?
>>738397570without high stakes you have nothing
>>738397361Or the competition doesn't take the same form you're used to. If you were right, the former SC2 pros that play it would be shitting all over everyone. They don't. It's a different skillset entirely.
>>738397642>the former SC2 pros that play itThey don't play it.
>>738397695Yes they do?
>>738397729Who
>>738395905Lmao
>>738397290>muh boringLiterally just your opinion lmao
>>738397775TLO, HuK, Scarlett.
>>738398107I guess one of those players was good at least.
>>738395601>>738395861>>738395870Again, that's how it's going to be. What are you going to make? Clones? What are they going to do against mechs?
>>738383126Are there efficient ways of doing things? Then that's a build-order.Just because you're too casual for the conversation doesn't change the foundation.
hehe
>>738389614>Submarine Titanshe cute!
>>738396080I like how dialogues are different depending on language version. In mine, she basically says "Jesus, sir, they are still savages and you want to give them weapons?!" with Frank replying "But (he) gave one to you".
>>738398160Then what's your excuse for why they aren't shitting all over everyone?
>>738397278For me it is Artillery spam.Luv me some concentrated arty strikes on enemy positions. Nothing is as satisfying as the synchornized fire of long range plasmaguns pummeling the enemy front line into smithereens.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fEtKlUC1S8
>>738398540"Was" is a key operator in that sentence. And even then I don't think Scarlett had that many good results anyway.
>>738398107TLO and HuK been retired forever and Scarlett plays zerospace.
>>738395959Why specifically 3? I remember having some fun as a kid with 1 and 2, however but heard that 3 heavily restricted that whole hero building aspect.>>738395789Actually played Homeworld ("remastered" so on engine of 2) before but good pic anyway. Didn't mind 2 and their scaling, too.
>>738398468YOU SICK FUCK
What are the best RTS games if you have like 5 APM?
>>738398615Scarlett plays a wide array of RTS. She pops up from time to time like the qt3.14 she is.
>>738398790Custom maps.
>>738398790You want "RTS" games then. Like "They are Billions" so you can pause and think real hard.
>>738389948It has a very unique and neat vibe. No other rts game is quite like it.
>>738396827Out of all things you can criticize for being "personalityless", the unit designs of SupCom is the last on the list.Each of these units and structures just by the way they look tell you all you need to know about how their faction and how their tactics should work and each faction has their own unique look so they don't fell "samey" even if they're the same colors. Something that Planetary Annihilation failed at.You can tell apart a Cybran unit from an Seraphim as well you can recognize a UEF unit from an Aeon unit.>UEF units: Square, orthogonal, function over aesthetic, built to tank and endure>Cybran units: Angular, triangular and hexagonal, built for stealth and agressive guerrilla tactics>Aeon units: Sleek, simple, organic, built for hyper focused roles>Seraphim units: Asymmetry and curved, appear highly delicate but stronger than their direct counterparts, built for multi purpose roles
>>738398881>#9>could've had a dick-lazorDamn shame my boy, oh yes.
>>738398615TLO was playing BAR's predecessor BA and SupCom long before he retired. Again, if you were right, he would have been dunking everyone in his way because the game wasn't competitive. That was not what happened.
>>738391243did grey goo live up to the hype? I bought it but too scared to invest time into it.
>>738398868I'm ok with games that focus on a single aspect of RTS gameplay.I like Syndicate, Shadow Tactics, Desperados, etc.
>>738399062Grey Goo was weird, I kind of ended up disliking it because the gameplay was too slow and the maps felt very constrained in a weird way. The factions werek ind of meh as well, and the titular goo was just generally not that fun to play.It did have decent music though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS1auf0SKUA
>>738398881The spider is the only cool looking one I've seen so far.
>>738398435Build orders matter more on small maps where there's a very linear way of doing things, especially when you only have a few types of units and buildings, and smaller firing ranges (vs. something like an artillery installation, TML, or nuke). There are more ways to do things in SupCom because strategies branch for every installation.
>>738398435Not only does he not understand this fundamental building block of RTS gameplay, he refuses to acknowledge it must exist.
>>738399484Setting up automated ferry systems for your units via transports in supcom is surprisingly satisfying.
this games looks so fun...
>>738398790Just play WC3 custom maps or the Red Alert/other CnC campaigns
>>738399639>radially symmetrical mapsI hate it in RTS games.
>>738363567What does rise of nations fit into? Cossacks?Dare I say Xcom 3?
>>738399381For me its the Aeon galactic collosus
>>738397626Kek lol and lmao
>>738399639...And then I zoom in.
>>738389527no rape threats today?
>>738399847Rise of Legends remains forgotten.
>>738398435No he's actually right. Build orders the way you think of them might as well not exist outside of maps that constrain how you play too sharply.
>>738397626BAR has a competitive scenePretty fun to watch too, even if you're not that familiar with the game/these games because killing the Commander is the win condition, not erasing the base
>>738400249How do I think of build orders?
>>738353264Easy, for example in BAR, in larger maps especially, it is quite viable for you to basically build only a couple of builders out of the first factory you build, consume the factory in order to get back the metal, rapidly scale up the starting economy you have while using your commander and turrets to defend as you rush to t2, and begin to upgrade your economy with t2 builders/making t2 units. Some people even go as far as to just make one or two t2 builders, and rebuild their t1 factories in order to start spamming t1 units and re-establish map control they obvously forfeit in the early game when they do something like this with a stronger t2 economy they establish with their t2 builders.If done well and not scouted by the enemy, this sort of early economy/tech rush build can fuck up the opponent royally because t2 units are very powerful in comparison to t1 units in BAR, and the economy uptic a player gets from getting their first advanced fusion plant up is massive. Each fusion plant allows the player to fuel 1 t2 energy converter which each ads +10 metal income to to the player's income, while t2 metal extractors are more efficient than their t1 counterparts.At the same time, such tech/eco rushing is very vulnerable to early game unit spam/rushes because the commander is relatively fragile to a point where t1 units can overwhelm and kill them, and the turrets the commanders can make are pretty weak as opposed to the better and more costly turrets the builder bots can make.
>>738374404I don't mind that stuff, but I do also enjoy stuff like World in Conflict that makes it purely about the combat
>>738400258>Pretty fun to watch tooWhen video titles are straight up>Please watch this game of Beyond All Reason Trust me.It's natural to a grain of doubt
>>738400419Wintergaming is a fag, how's that news?
>>738400419*have a grain of doubt
>>738400419That's just Winter's clickbait memery.
>>738400258low views and no money says otherwise
>>738400471Winter is great. Fuck you.
>>738400471Also I'm pretty sure he doesn't stream much high level play just really big matches and 8v8s with the very occasional 1v1. For the competitive side you want to watch Requiem and BARcast, Barcast actually plays at that level but he's less frequent.
>>738398790R.U.S.E.
>>738400357Also there are cheeky builds that I've seen in 1v1 and 4v4 like commando dropping or stealth incursions
>>738374404Classic RTS games are like old tab targeting mmos, they were designed to work with limitations of their time, to have detailed combat mechanics you need 3D graphics and more accurate simulation of physics.You should check out Myth 2 as well, really fun game with great mechanics, it's like medieval fantasy men of war.
>Yet another RTS thread with BARfag and SupComfag going at it againEh at least Zero-Kfag is missing, that's a blessing
>>738400765Things were simpler when it was just Scfags vs Sc2fags.
>>738400357Some correction, standard fusion plants generate enough energy to allow you to fuel 1 t2 energy converter, whereas advanced fusion plants allow you to fuel 6 of those converters. Once you start building up your economy via fusion plants and energy converters you will being to outpace the metal income you would get just form controlling metal nodes on the map. This sort of infrastructural income is something BAR matches that last long enough usually end up flowing towards because it allows players to scale up their operations and it is in large parts core element of the game design. There is an element of base design here as well because both energy plants and converters are highly voatile so you have to plan out how you place these structures and how you protect them due to the risk of your entire base blowing up if the enemy is able to strike at your economic infrastructure.Supreme Commander also has similar dynamic with the added element where there are adjencency bonuses to energy and mass production structures with each other and unit factories, essentially further encouraging you to plan out your base in ways where you get these bonuses without making your base needlessly fragile to enemy strikes.
>>738400765>Zero-Kfag is missingMore like subdued with his chilling
>>738400681The fucking heromaker models, my sides.
>>738400098it looks like an absolute clusterfuckhow do people play this without being overwhelmed with so much stuff going on?
>>738400681Why would you even ship this.Anyone could've looked at that and said "that's fucking bad dude".
>>738400634https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7sdIoQcRTw
>>738400634The favorite one I ever tried was a 3v3 map where we rushed air transports and t1 artillery and surrounded an enemy base with artillery on high ground to hem them in while we expanded everywhere else on the mapBAR is very creative compared to StarCraft imo, just because of the crazy options you get through team play
>>738401021contractual obligation
>>738400530>defending a notorious viewbotterLol. Lmao even.
>>738398790Heroes of Might and Magic.
>>73840068144 million dollars
>>738400530Oh the BARfag is defending his master like the good guard dog he is
>>738401010They don't zoom, simple as is.
>>738401258Not real time, but great games anyway.
>>738401341At 5 APM, Anon isn't real time either.
I just want a new starcraft broodwar with anime girls and gacha skins and actual social features like clans, automated tournaments, and practice tools like split practice maps, and build order testers etc. I hate the 1998 interface of broodwar and the fact that blizzard refuses to do ANYTHING because "lol no changes" despite it being one of their most popular games. BW was better when it was on fish, there were certainly less hackers
>>738401435I think it depends on the action we are talking about.
>>738401010That's why the Factions looking like they do is so vital, from that screenshot alone you can tell that a team of Cybran, UEF and Aeon players are attacking a Seraphim base.If the same scene was recreated with only one faction then the only thing that can differentiate who is shooting who is the secondary color in the units.
>>738344748That sounds like some gay ass pussy shit.Everyone knows that the campaigns sell RTS games.Compfags are retarded, insular fuckheads
>>738400510It's a videogame not divegrass or chimp punch
>>738401515Anon, Blizzard has to strain itself to the utmost just to replicate a 1998 interface. They had to cut a bunch of features from the Warcraft 3 remake because they were too incompetent to replicate an interface from 2002.
>>738344748Disregard this Supcom cultist shit, play DTA insteadIncludes all 4 factions from TD+RA1 with extras, naval warfare that doesn't suck, rebalance that actually makes artillery and infantry useful, vastly improved AI, fun campaigns and missions, including coop.Pretty much the only thing it can't do is fix TS engine's hardcoded limitations like helicopter rotors and sound limit, but it might get there eventually thanks to the extension they've developed.
>>738401929i wish valve would buy the rights or make their own rts. And I also hope that Nexon's starcraft is good. Basically I am wishing for anyone but blizzard to make something
>>738401515>I just want a new starcraft broodwar with anime girls and gacha skinsWhat's your budget? 'cause while I can probably code it, good luck finding all those 3D models for cheap.
>>738402034>i wish valve would buy the rights or make their own rts.you know valve could just.... make their own game right? not everything needs to be some gay ass sequel.
>>738400554I watched a game of Raider vs BARcast but narrated by someone else and was interesting and pretty close. BARcast was technically behind but his game knowledge gave him lots of advantage where he shouldn't He lost though, but it was a great run by Raider with some tigers
>my autism game is better>no my autism game is better>wrong your autism game sucks and heres why>counterargument your autismgame isn't perfect either and heres proofThen you faggots wonder why nobody wants to make anything for RTS or even attempt to please you anymoreEven Shooters games don't have this issue
>>738402086I meant a spiritual successor, like a 2d isometric clunky rts with limited selections and an emphasis on economic management/scouting. Like I said I would prefer it with a slutty gacha girl aesthetic (and I think it would sell like hot cakes to secondaries that don't even play rts)
>>738401137I wouldn't know about that.I just find his content entertaining.
>>738401515>hate the 1998 interface of broodwar>anon doesn't understand the psychic anime girl neural vibes and arbiter referencesUnblessed
>>738402191That strawman argument is basically all of /v/
>>738401286What's so bad about Wintergaming? I liked his casts before
>>738402350it's just bait, don't engage with it
>>738402191I've never hated another RTS' fanbase until guy refused to stop making threads for years on end.
>>738402191If that's the case then whats this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUsOZ6MFEOMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQthkIpbXcg
>>738402705Dust Front or DORF who wins?
>>738402948Neither, both are vaporware that will take until heat death of the universe to actually come out.
>>738395307empire at war: gold pack is fun if you like (or liked) starwars although people play it mostly for the mods nowadays, but i prefer the basegame the most
>>738395307>any good RTS games available on GOGImpossible CreaturesThat one is fun
>>738403029real
>>738374624>>738374556>>738374404I think what anon is trying to express is that tactical games reward universal understanding of good tactics and tactical intuition more than esoteric knowledge about specific game mechanics like tech trees, build orders and unit counters.For example, take an end game unit like the monkelord, it represents a big investment in resources and it has the ability to be a finisher if the enemy is not prepared to deal with it, it can destroy the enemy economy or kill the commander, it would be wasteful for the enemy to try to match it with an equivalent amount of resources, instead he will use a counter like air units, you can then invest in anti-air to counter the counter and so on, the point is that ultimately the winner is decided by resource allocation and hard counters.Tactical games are far more nuanced and dynamic, you fly an attack helicopter too close to a reverse slope and suddenly you get hit by the cheapest infantry unit with a machinegun or an unguided anti-tank launcher, a simple positional change completely reconfigures the relationship between these units, the value of the units and even the idea of what they counter is dynamic and always changing, but in very inuitive ways, it's not like you researched a tech that suddenly unlocked AA capabilities to them.You take something like a heavy tank, a King Tiger, that's like a Tier 3 unit and could fit the same role of an experimental, except that the enemy placed mines in your avenues of approach or built obstacles that you can't run over, the enemy launches smoke to blind the unit and a basic AT infantry shoots it in the back, the total available gameplay space in a RTT game is larger because of all the complex interactions that its systems allow.
>>738398881I wish there was more public concept art of supcom 1Gas Powered Games had some real talent while making this game
>>738403479I love cybran art direction so much. Can't play them for shit tho. I need them shields.
>>738387851Original War kind of had that with vehicle fuel (and maybe some other stuff, it's been a long time). I forget if you had to take gas back to the main building but for standard vehicles you had to have logistics to refuel them in the field or return them to base for refueling. Great game, has a unique spin on a lot of RTS elements.
Why didn't she evac with the dropship?
>>738398790Baldur's Gate 1 and 2Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2Icewind Dale 1 and 2
>>738395307>>738403745
>>738388818>>738388912Why don't they just use the ground as mass?
>>738403989Blizzard was never good at writing, they were good at making it entertaining.Consider that the entire BW Terran campaign hinges on Stukov not communicating with his direct superior and best friend for no adequately explained reason.
>>738403989I assumed that:1. There aren't enough transports for everyone so she stays behind to fight with her men2. The transports are just for local movement and don't have enough power/fuel to leave 3. I'm a shill
>>738347282it looks like a spider monkey
>>738404151I actually played and finished both campaigns in Original War on hardest difficulty with all medals, including no save loading. Three times. It's such a little gem.
hope DORF gets proper VA
>>738389619Knights and Merchants comes to mind. Really comfy game but can be boring.
>>738401515Sounds like a design that would filter most players. Weebs and gachafags wouldn't touch an RTS of all genres, while regular players would be put off by gacha and chinese cartoon visuals.
>>738398794based moid dunking on foidsEpstein retired too early, foids should not have any spaces to call their own
>>738402191I put the blame more on PVP/Sweatfags than just the spergs
>>738405060Honestly dont car about DORF, its been 5 years and theres still no demo. Like bro its on openRA
>>738407998they are making entirely new assets and designing a campaign, these are extremely time consuming
>>738407785>implying PVP/Sweatfags aren't spergs
>>738408521I saw one guy port CnC generals and CnC red alert 3 into Red Alert 2 in 3 years. DORF has won awards for best upcoming mod/indie game since 2023. I see no excuse why there is no demo or real gameplay shown off.
>>738410257prease understand artists are very important to pay what they're worth, AI bad
>>738347175FA is good but I'm bad at it so I think it should be different
>>738410334They saw stormgate rake in 3 mil and figured they could get at least 1 mil.
>>738400357if you are using static defense to defend that's not the same as a pure econ opening. it's like forge first not nexus first.
speaking about next gen RTSs, how's Zero Space coming along?
>>738394375Zero-K is an RTS. Enemies have the option of not engaging in an unfavourable engagement. You have to force a favourable engagement for you with tactics.
>>738411489In bar you get need to have defenses up because even a scout unit if it gets into your base can fuck up your economy due to the whole voatile meme.Turrets in your base are basically mandatory.
>>738400109There is no opposition to rape. They have already been raped to oblivion.
>>738400765I was banned but now I'm back. You lost and got raped.
>>738410257If a guy took three whole years just to port stuff that was already made, it shouldn't be weird that it takes so long to create something from scratch.
>>738412413Ever heard of a naked expansion? Highly skilled players can create a strategy to expand rapidly by not building static defences. Good use of radar coverage or vision allows you to build the bare minimum units for defence and have those units be useful.
>>738404368To not deform the battlefield, of course. The tech they got only works on some mass.
>>738389619Wasn't Stronghold like that, I remember that it shows the resources collected as objects on the field.
>>738412973Another one is that gathered mass has to be extremely dense (more protons = higher element number) so that they can make huge machines without displacing huge amounts of dirt. You see this scale with things like trees not being much mass, but metal is.
>>738396320That's funny considering I've played the majority of RTS campaigns out there, including mods.Grow thicker skin, blizzdrone. Warcraft and Starcraft have always been overrated tripe in the SP department.
>>738396031bumping to spite this gacha fag
>>738412782Yeah, but it is very risky especially if you are trying to tech rush at the same time. If you are scouted out while you are rushing t2 all the opponent really needs to do is to bumrush your base with a bunch of pawns/grunts etc and fuck you up.
>>738413314
I always end up coming back to WC3 due to how complete it isIt's not only fun but the atmosphere is also thick as hell, any match is an aesthetic experience by itselfI enjoy other RTS but I rarely come back to them unless a friend wants to play
Somebody make another thread. Please.
>>738413314sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder about blizz
>>738413609no FUCK YOU
I'm looking for other underrated rts games like Warzone 2100. Any suggestions?
>>738344748Tbh the game that had the most simultaneous fights I've ever seen was Rise of Legends
>>738412413in starcraft you can instantly lose the game because 4 zerglings ran into your base. people will still go cc first because the game has enough depth you can get away with it often enough for it to be worth trying.
>>738413609>>738413158
>>738415883You mean people don't play optimally, so people can get away with it?
