New Ultimate Tier List
>>738348554I still believe Steve ruined everything about Smash
>>738348554Nobody fucking cares, Smashfag pedo.
>Characters I like are all bottom tierMan, fuck these tier lists
>>738348554Kneel before the Queen of Smash!
>>738348554Nigga we don't careNew Smash already got confirmedUltimate Tier List -> Trash bin
>>738348554>Ultimate joins Trash and Brawl in being the Smash where the top tier characters are all hated immensely64 and Melee win yet again
>>738349150discord zoomer mentality
>>738348554why is Fox up there lmao, only light plays him and he has never won
Was Hero always that high? I vaguely remember him being placed lower.
>>738348554It’s funny that Ike is that low when MK Leo was winning tournaments with him after the game first came out.
>>738350446he was lower but people started being lame with him aka camping for the buff command options and using his other special moves that are actually pretty strong.
>>738348554Banjo that low while Steve is at the very top… depressing.
>>738350505he got nerfed and people learned to deal with his nair spam
>>738348554>sora lowered by two places>banjo lowered by six placesNature is healing.
>my main piranha plant is no longer at the bottom of d tierwe're in this bros
>B+ tierOkay I guess
>>738350613Further proof that Steve won, while Banjo was the consolation prize.
>>738348554Why is Marth so low? I don't know anything about current smash stuff but I remember he was top tier in Melee.
>hero in A tierWe're moving up in the world!
>>738351523Very inconsistent tipper hitbox making it hard for him to score kos or play neutral.Plus Lucina and Roy are much better at what he does so no reason for players to pick him up.
>>738351607>Clones are better nowTragedy.
>>738348554I told everyone that Mewtwo sucked ever since the first few months of the game.no one fucking listened so he never got the buffs he deser- why in god's name is Hero above Cloud? That's utterly retarded.
>>738350613His damage output is too poor even with fast cancels
>>738348554why does sakurai leaves smash games to die? he has done it 3 times in a row now, patches are mandatory on fighting games
>>738355268>Mega Man up 21That seems like a lot.
>>738355220He had to work on Air Riders.
>>738355642why not keep a team that keeps on working on smash? i don't think he is THAT egocentric to assume that everyone will do everything wrong
>>738350613>>738351364At least Banjo still has a soul, Steve's franchise suffered a fate worse than death
>>738355640I was thinking he seemed higher up than I remembered. Wow
>>738355640it's because one megaman an player is doing really good at tournaments right now (peabnut). That's how these teirlists always go
If the entire S+ tier were just removed from the game right now, how much better off would the game be?
>>738356480people would whine more about Palutena being carried and Samus & Pikachu being miserable to fight.
>>738348554A SKILLED SIMON CAN BEAT ANY STEVE
>>738348554Am I the only one that thinks Pac-Man should be higher? I don't play him but most of the crazy plays I spectate usually comes from a Pac-Man player
Lucina still too highwtf happened to Pac?
>>738348554I swear every time I see a new smash ultimate tier list the top tier list consists of more degenerate characters.
>>738348554>Half of Fighter's Pass 2 make up the highest tierShould've ended the DLC at Terry and leave on a high note.
>>738357746>Minecart, ToD jab, overtuned bricks, anvil, farming diamond/gold despite wearing it.>Spindash>Grenade>Up B being the ultimate get out of jail card.>Half of Rob's frame data>Ram Ram>90% of Kazuya overtuned shit, not just EWGF>Banana>Way too much range on attacks, foresight>Tether grab doing everything, including ToD>uhhh Jank combos?>uhhh weirdass air movement?>Nair into everything>Arsene, gun, ayha or whatever his gayass arcfire is, bair everything, UpAir jankYeah pretty scummy top tier, though im not really sure what makes Princesses and Yoshi notably scummy. Honestly Diddy is pretty fair outside banana shit, and Fox honestly isnt that bad either.
how is sephiroth in this?
>>738358692Been saying for years Terry was the best DLC added into smash.
>>738358846>Flat stage that's actually fun>More music than most CD soundtracks>Sans Mii fighter, to placate ZoomiesIt would've been perfect
>>738358818Very ehhHas notable strengths but really exploitable weaknesses.
>>738356019They made an update last year to fix some glitch if you played it on Switch 2, so clearly they at least have a skeleton crew left. They're just not doing balance changes anymore for some retarded reason.
>>738358769>Yoshiprobably his nair being so good at breaking out of combos and having really good framedata in general and being good at racking damage with up air, egg lay or dair.>Peach/DaisyEven if they're incredibly technical and hard to use, their turnip train combos can pretty much kill you if they ever touch you
its so funny that kazuya is in this. does he ewgf and hellsweep?
>>738348554looks the same
>>738350446the current meta is exceptionally campy and slow which allows you to fish for overpowered spells
>>738359096i'm always baffled by the way they treat smash balance, considering it's a high seller and a console seller itself, i quited smash after getting wrecked by ROB's online i wasn't having fun
>>738359227He has all his Tekken moves. EWGF is his bread and butter that lets him shit out death combos
>>738359557DLC was truly a mistake.
>>738348554>multiple DLC characters in SReally makes you think
docbros soon we'll be D+
>>738348554i only played project m and super smash on the wii u. my favorites were game and watch, wario, and ganondorf. why is ganon considered the worst in this game?
>>738361464he's too slow, has a terrible recovery and his only noteworthy move is his nair.
>>738348554Steve won; Bajokes lost
>>738361908His up air is good too.Flame Choke is also good, just cant be spammed.
>>738348554Someone explain Yoshi S Tier to me. Last time I saw one of these he was upper A+ thanks to Japan. Did he get better results? Or did America/Europe took the dinosaur pill?
>>738348554>which character is the most miserable to fight
>>738348554don't care, still playing gigachad simon
>>738362280He's still only relevant in Japan, but the Jap players think highly of him since they have all the best Yoshis.
what happened to duck hunt
>>738349150>>738350129sisters.. lets calm down
>>738362280Pressing A in the air wins disadvantage state.
>>738363995If you wonder why he went up, he got a really good player named Jagabata to carry him
>>738356420>>738355640This list is an aggregate built on community (aka tourney goers) vote so if someone strong appears maining a low tier and starts fucking shit up people's opinions will be swayed.
>>738356480Luigi would be top1 as most tierwhores would switch to him, new Steve.Aegis would be hated even moreDiddy would get the hate it deservesThe game would still be 50% better as the last two are way better top tiers than fucking Steve and Sonic.>>738356643Palu and Samus are terrible top tiers
>>738348992He is not the first character that takes a gimmick and makes it feel like it's reinventing the game's core system for himself, but I think he's the most egregious and polarizing one and a solid line-crosser. Snake is a trap and zone-like character with his kit but still smashes and engages in combat the same. Hero feels like you gave a joke character the entire fucking toybox, but even he still feels more fairly grounded than Steve.
Why does Ultimate being alive while Melee is dead make Meleesnoys seethe so hard?
>>738365920It does?
I play>Game and Watch>ROB>Wario>DK>Isabelle>BanjoSo I'm feeling pretty happy. Last I checked everyone spoke of Isabelle like she was one of the worst characters ever with very little kill tools, now she's higher than Villager and in C? What happened?
Steve design and concept isnt bad, its actually great, he's just stupidly overtuned.Blocks have no reason to be that sturdy, minecart has no reason to be that retarded. Also jab shouldn't be doing what it does.
>>738366196Character specialist been cooking with Isabelle. trap and fish line are way better moves than what Villager has.
>>738366468I never want to get too autistic with labbing and stuff anymore like I used to for PM, but I have always felt this way about Isabelle's rod.
>>738366521also forgot about her jab.Her jab is legit one of the best in the game.
>>738356282Nuts and Bolts removed any soul Banjo had
>>738366659also makes sense, it's very fast. I don't like how variable it is, but her uair and dair also are quite generously sized, and her recovery is really good. I don't know how well her nair functions as a 'get off me' tool compared to some good sex kicks or moves like Wario's nair, but it's still gotta be better than PPlant's or Banjo's nair.
>>738366840The fat intro makes me think the soul it carried was different, but there IS some soul there. It just isn't the classic Banjo soul.I can't believe they canonized Kazooie's masochism. How funny is it that such a big bitch likes to take a clock to the face. Perhaps that's why she is such an instigator?
>>738366416>minecart has no reason to be that retarded>t. doramigi
The HEROES of Ultimate
>>738368376>cyan G&Wbased. God, I wish they didn't censor the Fire Attack move, imagine what this would look like.
>>738368376Unironically kino top 8. Based Gluto and Spergo for raping all the other Steves.
It's not fucking fair bros, why did he end up so shit?
>>738365914He said everything. Steve is super bad for the game competitively, sure, but in general he feels like he completely cheapened the game. Not only that, but on /v/ itself the amount of shitposting about Steve before Banjo, then after, then when Steve was revealed kind of was the final straw for Smash on this board. I think the whole Steve/Banjo thing basically turned everyone against the games, even I hated talking about it here.>But Minecraft is so popular!It is, absolutely, it definitely is. Steve is not a character. Steve is an amalgamation of some minecraft items with terrible animations on a bad looking model that is okay because it "looks like the game" when he straight up looks and animates worse than Mr. Game & Watch.They should have just added mii costumes. Maybe a special stage with a track (sort of like how Sans got a music track). There is no reason for "Steve" to be a character. At least characters like G&W and ROB have the excusive of being fucking Nintendo property and part of the history of their company.
It's so funny that Marth and Lucina who are 99% the same character have a whole tier in-between them. They're essentially the same character.
>>738361464He is just too slow with too bad recovery and his power isn't even special anymore.Like literally. Pyra is pretty much as powerful or stronger than Ganon (in terms of gameplay) but is WAY, WAY faster, has way better recovery, and literally can hit down B to basically turn into Ganon (Sheik form) and be a super fast aerial spammer that then turns back into pyra to kill you with a random nair.Dude might be the single biggest victim of power creep in the entire series. His gimmick is:>Giga power>Slow>Bad recoveryExcept nowadays most characters, especially DLC ones, are already really strong but then also fast and have retardedly good recoveries.
>>738368703Lucina is like 95% of Marth's tipper power at all times. Marth's tippers are barely better than Lucina's random hits. Why play Marth when you can play the character with the same moves who is better most of the time and doesn't require perfect precision?
>be pikminfag>like the idea of managing pikmin as a character concept>only way to play Olimar in a game with actual movement is in a hackSad. Surprised he's able to stay relevant in Ult, would think managing pikmin would be too gimmicky snd complicated to keep up with the overpowered gimmicks of dlc characters.
>>738368637>Not only that, but on /v/ itself the amount of shitposting about Steve before Banjo, then after, then when Steve was revealed kind of was the final straw for Smash on this board. I think the whole Steve/Banjo thing basically turned everyone against the games, even I hated talking about it here.I'll be honest, I don't think it's good or constructive at all to give a shit what the tertiary fanbase on this Filipino animal fucking website should be factored into this equation unless you're viewing it from a complete and total "How much I enjoyed Smash and its culture" perspective, but I like to divorce that from talking about the game itself. I think it's a fair point on the topic of Smash culture and discussions here, but I don't really desire to give zeitgeist power to mouthbreathers.
/ssbg/ is still dead...
>>738369104It is less "Oh man. That guy shitposted at me so hard" and more like just a general decay of the community at large, not just here. Specifically here though, it was insane the amount of shitposting going on that seemed to render almost the whole board unusable at times.Also the opinions on Steve here did not change mine because I was clearly against it from the beginning. Part of it for me is also just noticing how many people were openly nostalgic about minecraft. That makes sense, but it reminded me that I was here when Notch himself was literally shilling the alpha on /v/, and so I felt so old...
Does anyone have realistic steve pics? Lost mine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201004142451/https://files.catbox.moe/1nymwl.mp4
>>738368516Air Mobility, Endlag, and Recovery being dogshit, especially the former. While it's faithful to the original games, it is so. fucking. awful. to maneuver around despite having a phenomenal zoning/trapping game.If they were in a traditional 2d fighter, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank with their kit, but that's not the case here.
>>738348554>Peach is no longer the highest Super Mario character on the listI'm genuinely shocked!
>>738368376The incredibly rare good Ultimate tourney
>>738368703They skewed Marth too much into the tipper, which also got way less consistent to hit. He hit likes a wet noodle without it (which is wierd since Roy barely cares about his sour spot). He also lost a lot of his combo potential and his sword just feels like it has way less range than most other swordies.Basically, that cancerous slag Lucina once again ruined someone for mogging her.
>>738348554no way Robin is actually that high.
So what do all the top tiers have in common? Like what is the key to a character being good in Ultimate?
minecraft guy didn't "ruin" anything, it was par for the course. the game was already like that long ago. in fact, it was complete trash from the beginning. never once was this game acceptable.
>>738372213being able to camp/turtle or deal with turtling really.Also being able to shit out damage out of nothing/ToD.
>>738372259Nah, Release was great and fun.Then that faggot Joker came in and once again, persona ruins something it comes into contact with.
I main sheik, only cause my gf (male) mains joker and i dont want to clone when i play with her (male)
>>738372187I guess you could say he finally tipped the scales
>>738372213Being dlcFor real though it's mostly power creep via Sakurai trying to make these characters more distinct. Mario has just always been Mario, they changed him a bit over time with the swap from the caoe to fludd but not much else, meanwhile someone like Joker, Aehis, Steve, and Kazuya get these crazy unique mechanics that other characters can't kr keep up with. Sometimes a character like GnW or Rob can be buffed enough to make it work, but they're the exception not the rule.
>>738372213Unironically, not playing Smash Bros.It's why sword characters are irrelevant despite previously being so privileged, with the exception of Aegis who's simply so overtuned that she's able to overcome that irrelevance.
What's thr solution from here on out?Give the old characters more moves?
Man, the only way Mewtwo won't be ass in the new Smash game is if he gets cut from the roster.
>>738372912Mewtwo was great in 4.
>>738372850There is no solution. It's been 20 years straight of poorly balanced Smash games.
>>738372259All shitendo "games" have always been shit
>>738372912Mewtwo was genuinely top tier in smash 4, sakurai just needs to buff him
>>738349187I also like the slow instant gratification characters. My solution to these slow fucks was Lucas but he's also on the lower spec, to my dismay.
>samus is significantly higher tier than ZSSall is right with the world
>>738348554How is Samus so high? Is this a case of high level players playing her so it brings her up the list? I thought she was mid before.
Smash ult is nothing without 3rd party characters. Nintendo only has like 4 good series
>>738356282awwww chuddy does empathy and understanding scare you? daaaaaw poor boy
>>738374405i'd imagine good survivability, good recovery, charge shot and bomb are fucked up for shield break and ledgeguarding setups
>>738368637This is such a shit argument. Smash already has tons of characters with clashing visuals and for you the line is crossed at Steve of all things? He's an amalgamation of some Minecraft items? How is that different from Games & Watch, Villager and others characters who pull random shit from their game? How dods he have less personality than mute jrpg protagonist number 7? God I'm so glad you disingenuous rosterfaggots aren't in charge. Game would be so fucking boring. Steve is a video game icon, no matter how much you mald at how silly of a character it is, and he absolutely deserves to be in Smash, more than many others
>>738350446What the other anons said, but even before the camo meta, he was about B or B-, so still fairly high
>>738356282>>738374497THEY DELETED THE /v/ SPLASHTEXT THE FUCKING COWARDS
>>738374405Charged Shot is super versatile it lets her do combos, kill confirms, shield pressure or kills.Bombs are also really good at it too.Great aerials like nair, fair or bair.Good Grab game with combo throws and a kill throw with up air.UpB is a great OoS.
>>738348554Never bothered to check the Ultimate's roster - where is Waluigi? I can even see Dog, but where the fuck is purple creepy fuck?
>favorites are DDD/Bowser/Yoshi/Olimar/MegamanI just wish heavies didn't suck so much ass in general, but I know it's a tall ask since they're also the biggest newbie stompers.
>characters i think are cool are largely good>characters i think are lame are mid to weaknice 2 bad ridley will never be good as a glass cannon big body
>>738375165Bowser and DK were super fun in 4.
>>738375290Bowser is still fun in Ultimate
>>738348554Remember:No one here is good enough for any tier list to matter. Unless you perform well at a regional level, you and your competition are simply not good enough yet where the intrinsic differences among the characters has a swinging factor in your loss or victory.If you want to win, you need to just get better rather than pick a better character. And even when you are at the top level, you still see players make it deep in bracket with lower tiers, again, simply due to player skill instead of character.
>>738348554The entire meta revolves around Steve and being good just means being able to deal with Steve. Sonic is nowhere near Steve's level of dominance but the tier list doesn't reflect that because putting Steve in S++ tier would make Smash Ultimate look like Brawl and SM4SH which is embarrassing for the game.Genuinely this character ruined competitive Smash holy fuck.
As a Snake main from Brawl, I do love to see that he's a top character.
>>738375960he is kinda hitler tho iirc he just pulls the pin on his grenade in neutral and if you hit him you blow up
>my favorite character as a kid is E tierGanonbros... I don't feel so good...
>>738372850Honestly? I don't think there's a "solution". There's approximately 20 years of precedent for Sakurai, HAL, and / or Bandai-Namco bungling character balance in Smash Bros. There's basically three archetypes of badly designed characters:>characters who are really, really good at exploiting system mechanicsFor example, Brawl Meta Knight and Ultimate Game & Watch and ROB.>characters who inexplicably avoid detection as being badly designed4 Mario and Ultimate Luigi>characters with overdesigned gimmicks4 Bayonetta and Cloud and Ultimate Steve, Min-Min, Kazuya, Aegis, and JokerNote how easy it is to cite examples of the third archetype, and how all of those examples are new, specifically DLC, characters. People's intuition is to "modernize" existing characters to the standard of new characters, but these new characters are have been overwhelmingly negative for the health of Smash Bros. from both a casual and competitive perspective. There is basically only one "overdesigned gimmick" character who isn't badly designed: Hero. And there are probably casual players who would disagree with that.tl;dr there's no reason to trust Sakurai et al. to modernize existing characters without badly balancing them.
>>738374405tl;dr she's a ledgetrapping demon who's coincidentally really good at playing like a massive fucking pussyGuess which of these is valuable in Ultimate. Both.
>>738375702true except for rob
>>738376334Nah fuck Hero's random crits, what a godawful mechanic. Pokémon has them too, Fire Emblem has them too, why does Hero specifically need them?
...I drive
>>738368376>no banjo playerskwab
What made Roy the best Fire Emblem character?
>>738379841Speed, early kill confirms enabled by sweetspot Back Air and Dancing Blade, disadvantage and recovery is just okay enough to get by (There are more ledgetrappers than edgeguard characters and Roy's UpB covers him well enough to be annoying enough).>But why is Chrom so far away from him, aren't they roughly the same?Chrom can't kill as early but is slightly more consistent, which is debatably worse, but what guts the character is his UpB. He might as well not have one, there's an argument to be made his recovery's worse than the usual suspects like Doc, Mac and Ganon. The main issue lies in that when Chrom is at the apex height of his UpB, there's roughly 5 or 6 frames where he's there with no hitbox covering him, and no armor or anything of the sort. If Chrom UpBs, everyone can just sit next to the ledge, and Down Tilt, Forward Tilt, Forward Smash, Down Smash, whatever works best. His UpB is a mixup at best for recovery, he essentially just has his double jump & an airdodge.If the opponent somehow doesnt know he's genuinely a B Tier character, but if you still play Ult you should know that.
Miss when the best character was pichu
I don't play Smash regularly but literally out of all the 80+ characters in this game, How did Steve end up on everyone's best character tier list? I've seen how he plays, is his build that much of an issue?
my wife steve is s tier UwU
>>738348554>DK on B Lol really? Based
>>738377617Hero's smash attacks are mediocre. He doesn't have the speed to capitalize on punishing or throwing out non-committal smashes, but he doesn't have the huge hitboxes or armored smashes of the slow characters either. He's not a character that wants to play in peoples' faces either, he needs space. When side-smash hits, it needs to fucking hit.
