What is the main cultural difference between Japanese and Western game devs?
>西洋
>>738365414PING PONG DANG YOU DISRESPECT SACRED MASTERS OF OLD YOU ARE DEAD GWEILO
The west heavily focuses on "player agency." The player should be allowed to do anything and everything in their power, regardless of concepts like balance, integrity of the story, or effectiveness. Western gamers will highly value a game that let's them make ridiculous anecdotes, such as "I game my character 2 Intelligence, so all of his words were unga or bunga. Then I picked up a frozen tuna, equipped it as a weapon, then used it to slap and instantly kill this quest important NPC, which permanently ruined my save file. It was so fucking sick, dude!" This usually entails making games where there is so much freedom that everyone sort of just breaks the game, and the only thing that really makes any Western game stand out is when there is a huge emphasis on novelty (Outer Wilds) or story.Japanese gaming heavily focuses on "the experience" entailed. This can be at the macro level ("I want the player to FEEL like they are in a giant robot") down to the micro (Like OP's picture, where they are obtaining the FEELing someone gets from looking at a cute girl). Naturally, this heavily reduces player agency under the understandable philosophy of it just being wasteful, such as "Why would I allow the player to attack this innocent NPC? All that happens is their character goes to jail and the game is over, then they reload the game and just not do that to not waste 10 minutes of their time? For what purpose?" This is also why Japan more deeply understands game mechanics and balance for their games.
>>738366561this doesn't happen.
>>738366625Why not?
>>738365414It is interesting that Japs have such a large fan culture surrounding derivative works, but actually modifying the original works themselves is seen as the largest insult in the world.
>>738365414sanctity of copyrightmany western devs will outright tell you to pirate their gamea japanese dev would sooner shove himself into a meat grinder
>>738366561>i picked up a can of tuna and beat someone important with itVery nice>japanese dev: no that is bad they shouldnt do that you go to jail then what?You see this is why you are retarded and should never make gamesAlsoOuter wilds sucked so much assTheres no gameplay in this gameBasically just a VN puzzle game
>>738366561it all boils down to options, the more you optimize the more you run the risk of ruining a detail that cascades into a bad experienceon the other hand refinment produces masterworksive plaed plenty of shit western and eastern games so maybe a good balance between boths is the way forward
>>738365414UGH I FIXED YOUR HECKIN GAME HIRE ME ALREADY WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE ORIGINAL WAS DUE TO TECHNICAL LIMITATIONS??? JUST LOOK AT MY FIX!!
If Makoto can have a completely still idle, I don't see why Morrigan can't.
>>738366561>japs are bad at making games with player freedom>this means they are better at game designi'd say the core aspect of all games is the FREEDOM given to the player, you cannot do this in any other medium, and a master developer will really capitalize on it. if you can't, might aswell make the game play itself to strip away any unnecessary player choices.
>>738367791I would just counter that by saying real life has better freedom, and video games are actually better at capturing impossible experiences and allowing you to have those experiences you can't have.
>>738368115>real life has better freedomin what fucking way
>>738368239You can ALSO slap someone with a fish and go to jail. What the fuck are you even talking about with this line of questioning? This is just inherently obvious.
>>738367212>I like this, let me make my own depiction of it to show appreciation!vs>I like this, let me break its bones and mangle its flesh to suit my own ends!
>>738367523
>>738366561the japanese put up barriers to ensure the player engages with the finely crafted experiencethe experience in question is of course the most incomprehensible bullshit ever conceived by man, or its just wish fulfillment about being a teenager again
>>738368317i can't tell if this is some weird attempt at trolling or you are genuinely schizophrenic
>>738368404>No argumentJust admit you made a stupid point and apologize.
>>738368341blud thinks games are grown in vats
>>738365414Western games are (broadly) pitched as world/story concepts and the rules of the game are adjusted to meet that concept. Japanese games are pitched as rules and the world/story concepts are adjusted to meet that.Of course there's a lot of crossover. Western indie games are also mostly influenced by the Japan.
>>738368436enjoy your dead thread
>>738366561What the fuck even is this comic, dangerhairs are making engines now?
>>738366561>Quotes "the West" shows only USAGarbage low tier post get back to the drawing board
>>738368341You will never be Japanese, so you might as well participate in the conversation earnestly instead of acting like this.
>>738367791>Id say the core aspect of all games is the FREEDOM given to the playerGames are defined by their restrictions.>SoccerYou cannot use your hands unless you're the goalie. Kicking the ball outside of the playing field results in a penalty. Kicking a ball anywhere but the goal area does not result in a goal, etc.Winning is fun because you figure out how to navigate around those restrictions, like how you fit the pieces together for a puzzle or whatever. This is also why, imo, most visual novels are not games but something like an old school dating sim (with heavy stat management) would be.
>>738368650>Winning is fun because you figure out how to navigate around those restrictionsThat's why the core aspect is FREEDOM. It's all about the freedom in how you navigate around those restrictions. Japs don't understand that :)
>>738368515it's weak ragebait
>>738368715That's just you equivocating on the definitions. You can't use wordplay to make you correct.
>>738368715No, you're restricted by the rules of the game. In Super Mario Bros, Mario can move left and right, his only access to vertical movement is restricted by jumping, which you can only do while grounded, or by falling. You don't have the freedom to move into the foreground to walk around a pipe. You can't just go to the left and abandon your quest to save the princess. You can't open up a sports bar as Mario. Furthermore, your only way of commanding Mario is via the limited inputs of the controller. For true FREEDOM you'd need something like a tabletop roleplaying game, and even then you're expected to obey most of the rules of the system.
>>738365414Western devs are cucks because the jews tell them to be, japanese devs are cucks because it's their culture.
>>738368889sugoiii supremeu visionary gameu designu we makeu the little man go left right and up!
>>738368889>For true FREEDOM you'd need something like a tabletop roleplaying game, and even then you're expected to obey most of the rules of the system.I agree with your post. The only thing I'd correct is this line, saying rather than the system, it's actually the person DMing, so whoever has been crowned the table tyrant as opposed to the rules specifically.
CHING CHONG PING PONG
>>738365414>I FIXED YOUR ART BY PAINTING OVER YOUR ART BUT NOT CREDITING YOU NOW PRAISE ME
>>738368932I accept your concession.
>>738369073you're right anon, let me just pirate some japanese classics real quick so I can experience their divine vision
>>738369108? Did you think that post would make us mad or something?
>>738369143I am perfectly aware that it does. bugman
>>738367791The core aspect of games isn't freedom, it's the creator's expression to the player. Games that focus on "freedom" like Deus Ex are still limited by development costs/time/creativity. >you can choose to kill Anna early or later>but you'll always kill her>you can choose to be a rampaging gepgunner or a pacifist stun rodder>but you'll always leave UNATCO because the MJ12 ending was never developedChasing freedom in games can only go so far compared to tabletop. The slants had the right idea in going for a single direction with very minor deviations.
>>738366561nips are bugmen, got it
>>738368889>No, you're restricted by the rules of the gameNo, you are defined by the rules of the game, and then you have complete FREEDOM to work from there. They're not restrictions, they're characterizations. Japs don't understand that :)
>>738367791>i'd say the core aspect of all games is the FREEDOM given to the player,I don't think that's the case.A game, be it a video game or a physical game or a tabletop game etc. has a set of boundaries and rules that the players are expected to follow. THAT is the core of a game: its rules.Now, the player can be creative with the rules he was given. Yeah you can play chess and move your pieces this or that way, but the rules are always the same, the movesets are always the same, etc., and that doesn't make the game bad.It all really depends on the type of experience you want to give the players, I think.I think it's nice to give the players some agency, though. They like when they're able to explore, test stuff, and have the game acknowledge or reward it, too.
>>738369205>you can make choices but XYZ will always be the samemight aswell make a movie then>Chasing freedom in games can only go so far compared to tabletopwut? tabletop is extremely restrictive
Exceptionally mentally ill thread.
>>738365414the thread from the other day was proof that the """improved""" sprite actually WAS worse
>>738369476>tabletop is extremely restrictiveExplain.
>>738369476>>738369648>tabletop is extremely restrictiveDepends on what kind of tabletop you're referring to.If it's a tabletop RPG like DnD and all, then it is as free as the DM allows it. If it's a board game, then it is as free as the rules allow the game to be.
>>738369648everything is bogged down to words and things sort of "instantly happen", there is no direct input or sensory feedback. i can't spend a real life hour wandering around doing nothing but staring at flowers in tabletop.you cannot have an hour-long build up to a villain only to slowly wordlessly visually reveal him and have him chase you, this entire idea is impossible in tabletop unless you jump through 7 hoops of abstractionsmaybe saying it is restrictive was not the right phrase but i hope you see my point
>>738369850Can you define what you specifically think "restrictive" means exactly?
>>738366561Whoever made this comic loves to get mad at imaginary scenarios in his head
>>738367523He says so beautifully what most can only begin to faintly verbalize
>>738369931limiting in options of what you can experience
>>738370334Could you further define what you mean by "experience" in this context?
>>738366561That is true lol, it is why eastern games have better art direction and pacing than western ones.A lor of westerners are deeply incurious and want to do things their own way, which is why you have people like DSP and Asmongold skipping tutorials and getting mad that they're unable to progress in the game.
>>738368572To be fair, very few countries other than the US and Japan even make video games.Yes, you can list examples. I didn't say "they make zero games".The US and Japan put out more games per month than the rest of the combined world puts out per decade. It's not even remotely close.Only China and SK have come close to competing and even then they're still lacking.
>>738369173Japanese don’t visit 4chan, or know englishIt’s probably just some weeb fighting an imaginary battle with enemies he made up
>>738366561this always happens
>>738369205>The slants had the right idea in going for a single direction with very minor deviationsNonsensical conclusion, used only to justify incompetent developers taking away choices from the player.>Deus ExThis is an just an example of a game that failed to deliver on the roleplaying aspect (though it's still a good game), and not even the best example of a game that focuses on freedom. A game will always have restrictions, but developers who value player agency will try to accommodate for player choice. In the original Fallout you will always be vault dweller looking for a water chip, but>you can freely distribute you stat and skill points>NPCs will react to your words and actions, even responding with violence if you go too far>you can be as selfless or self-serving as you want, as long as you accomplish your goals>fighting, diplomacy and sneaking are all viable ways to complete the gameThere are also other examples of games that don't end after you "go to prison", like Daggerfall.>the creator's expression to the playerThe player's response to said expression is just as important.
>>738365414How do japs even play porn games like Honey Select? Are they just content with shit Illusion made and don’t download any mods? The horror
>>738371323Is this bait
>>738370476sorry but i am tired and don't think this matters enough for me to do so
>>738365414/v/ tends to like Am*rican art more or when Am*ricans get to "improve" other countries art. It's mainly because Am*ricans view every other country and culture as servant cast that should only make their lives better. They don't really view them even as humans most of the time. For example, the small slice or mutts who even are against the war in Iran, are against it only because it makes their gas prices go up. Not because their government is killing civilians. They don't care about that, like when their military bombed that school for girls and killed almost 200 children, they just complained how much money they are losing. Not the fact that their government just killed 200 children in the name of holy war they just made up that majority of muricans support.So in the end you can expect /v/ to almost always side with Am*rican gamedesign and studios. Just the StarFox thing should tell enough, murican slop movie studio made a rework of Japanese character and mutts drool after it. Japanese devs make more realistic stuff, that murican studios have been doing for... Well since PS2 arguably, and it is considered bad because "USA DID IT BETTER YOU SUBHUMAN CHINKS STOP RUINING *OUR* CHARACTER!"That is where we are. Majority mutts will try and find ways around it, but just for non-mutts hereRemember that they are taught since they are six(6) years old to pledge unquestionable allegiance to their state and government, and that since birth they have been told nonstop how their country is greatest in the world on top of being told their country dindu nuthin wrong ever.So their culture is bit different, they kinda cannot see any other country being able to be better in anything than USA.
>>738371354No, an actual question Isn’t downloading mods is disrespecting creators vision or some such nonsense?
>>738365414>jap companies with fanart: >:(>jap companies with censors: :O
>>738371423Honey Select is a bottom-of-the-barrel h-gameIllusion hasn't made a new game in a decadeJapan leads the h-game market and runs two of the biggest h-game platforms, DLSite and DMM
>>738371323Nah, they like anything that the author or artist consents to. If the author approves mods, they support mods. If the author tells them to not mod, they'll hate anyone who does it.It is about maintaining respect between the audience and the artist because they know each other locally. It is like a religion.
HEY DO YOU REMEMBER THAT THING THAT WAS TRENDING ON TWITTER A FEW DAYS AGO? YEAH THAT THING THAT RAN IT'S CYCLE AND NOBODY REALLY CARES ABOUT ANYMORELET'S HAVE A THREAD ABOUT THAT
>>738371439japanese people like fanart, but they don't like it when you tag nsfw fanart with sfw fanart. They have a separate tag or name for nsfw parody works. You'll see Toby Fox copy that quirk with #undertail and #undertale
>>738371415as much as i appreciate a good rant about mutts, out of all the reasons to rant about em being disgusting vermin, i'd put vidya designs to be... not important at all tier>saluting the flagthis. muricans have no clue how creepy this is>dindu nuthin wrong ever.i thought their entire culture now is performative humiliation rituals because muh slavery
>>738365414true her stance doesn't look like she's ready to move
>>738366561you dont play western movie game western always make better games whether its gamey game or movie game muh soulsgame just play anything pvp
>>738366561>The west heavily focuses on "player agency."Tell that to all the Western Developers who make Cinematic Experiences™ and Modern Military Shooters™ that are railroad experiences and have almost zero agency. Additionally, let the supposed Player Agency™ developers like Bethesda know that it is not Player Agency™ if choices don't actually have consequences.
>>738365414People who don't see how that's rude are the ones who turn existing characters into niggers and claims that now they are fixed.
>>738365414Here's your improved sprite
>>738371415>i dont think about you at all
>>738366561>words words words wordssum this up in 2 panels or less
>>738371562now you're getting itdon't forget the part where we attack people herespeaking of, to whoever posted >>738266204, maybe I should deliver some "humbleness and humility" into your fucking skull. opportunistic fuckwits like you are why we probably won't live past 2040 at best
>>738367523He's not wrong. I would use word believable and familiar instead of realistic in this context.
can't we just agree that bugs bad, mutts bad and move on?
>>738374753When one's country affects the world negatively and said country's people cheer it on and tries to justify such acts, it attracts criticism.
>>738374753not the own you think it is when you think about india every day
>>738365414I hate how modern pixel artists think everything needs to bounce up and down constantly. I blame Paul Robertson
>>738365414Western Devs are more split between small Indies and large corporations, you have more middle sized studios in japan
>>738380789theres something horribly homogenous about modern western pixel art, like every guy has watched the same tutorials and the same books which makes them force every subject into the same generic artstyle
>>738366561youre talking about western rpgs vs japanese rpgs
>>738371412That's fine. I've at least gathered enough to know that you are using restrictive in a very counter-intuitive way to mean "lacking in sensory input" as opposed to what people typically mean by "removing/reducing agency." That's technically not wrong in a sense, but most people are using it in the context of agency when referring to gaming experiences, which is why people would be expected to say that TTRPGs are the least restrictive games ever since you have maximum player agency.You're not wrong; Just weird.
>>738367523>noooooo i can't self insert if the world is too fantastical!doesn't that just show a lack of imagination?
>>738365414BWC v BBC
>>738365414>more vibrant colors>subtle motion
>>738390021this is the first time I've seen a strawman argument involve actually building a fucking human shaped gif lmao. >look how silly this sprite is that i made!>that means you are silly!take your meds
>>738365414The best part about the x auto translate crap has been faggots no longer saying "japan is super wholesome guys" I know way more people in japan who have turned racists over any people in the statesT. Half nip and the poojeet and muslims really changed their mentallity. They've never really liked blacks or trannies though. They just don't mind them if they're normal enough which isn't the case these days.
>>738366561American developers, and audiences too, rarely consider the purpose of game mechanics. They don't rationalize a mechanic's inclusion or read developer interviews to decide whether said mechanic accomplished its intended goal. Instead, they come to this arrogant conclusion that the developer is simply retarded and that they (unqualified) know how to do it better. Or, they assume that a mechanic that works in one game automatically justifies its inclusion in another.This is how you get games like nu-Halo that refuse to deviate from Call of Duty conventions, and FoTM games that chase broad market appeal by cramming in every system from other popular games.
>>738367523What Todd is looking to say is verisimilitude.
>>738390849no he is not. just as he's not looking for the word "believable". he's trying to explain the concrete objective differences between the two that cause the difference in believability to him
>>738366561Japs don't understand human beings so their stories are just completely alien and badly written.
>>738365414Western game devs want games to be moviesEastern game devs want games to be anime
>>738365414But drawing six million comics of the characters getting fucked by ugly bastards is fine?
>>738390384This is the edit in question.
>>738391387I'm a SEAfag and I can tell you Japanese plots and characters are more relatable to any of us than any Western writing, even back when Western writing was good
>>738391849original better, the delay in the hand movement on the new one is annoying
>>738389858Not only that, a lot of JRPGs ground their fantastical settings by using the character's thoughts, feelings and motivations often in very human ways, and not being able to recognize the value of that when it happens says much about his ability to engage with the medium. It's ironic considering how Japanese games also have such a strong focus on how gameplay mechanics affect the experience of the player.
>>738366561i would kill myself if i made this comic or this post
>>738391849>one of the replies says the original animator quote tweeted it, as if it was something negative>scroll through him retweeting thirst traps seemingly 24/7 to find it>it's just him talking about the palette limitations and how it looked on crtshttps://x.com/akiman7/status/2051611840158028181
