Videogames will never be art
Art will never be video games and frankly that's worse
Big deal.
>>738410874Good
>>738410874Checkmate
Video games have always been art and will remain art. 99% of posters here are too brown to ever have a meaningful discussion about this topic, so enjoy the shitflinging thread
video games have always been art>inb4 "video games are art because they contain other art forms"if you think this then please fucking kill yourselfvideo games are art because gameplay itself is artdeal w/ it, faggots
>>738410874I should care because?
>>738410874>That image is in the files of Transformers War and Fall of Cybertron
>>738410874This was my desktop background in 2008.
anything can be art if its creator deems it as suchme clapping my hands is artart is not an intrinsically prestiged label
>>738412738pics or it never happened
You will never make art.
>>738414313But I will make love which is an art all to itself.
>>738416532no it isn't, brownoids do it all the time and spread like vermin
Consider the following:
>>738416619>mention the art of love making >immediately thinks of sweaty husky black men drilling into a shit covered pink hole lathered in filth That's on you buddy.
>>738410874art fucking sucks nowadays so that's for the better
>>738411393>gameplay itself is artNo it isn't. It's a dopamine stimulant.>anything can be art if its creator deems it as suchThat's a Jewish proposition. Or did you think it was a coincidence that the art world went to shit the moment this retardation was accepted as fact?Video games can contain art, that is, any content within them that is not the gameplay itself. Given that the only defining characteristic of video games compared to other storytelling mediums is gameplay, if one wishes to produce art, there is no good reason to use a video game as the medium instead of any other. The gameplay will only obstruct the art unnecessarily.
>>738417515>No it isn't. It's a dopamine stimulant.if so then all good art is a "dopamine stimulant" you motherfucking bro-science mouthbreatheryou must be one of those retards who romanticizes the idea of art and yet doesn't actually consume art because he thinks it's too hard and you need to be a 200 IQ genius to read a book or look at a painting or somethingfuck off and kill yourself bitch ass
Post games Roger Ebert never played.
>>738410874I think about that image of roger and the quote all the time
>>738410874Define art.
>>738410874Good.So those failed writers should actually fuck off and go writing real books.
Yes but masturbating to art of video games is art.
Too late Far too late
>>738410874How old is this image?
Art is for gays
>>738410874Ok idc (I don't care)
>>738410874Define art
>>738410874This sentiment almost always boils down to, "It's not art because you are having too much fun", as if there is any form of entertainment that is not also art.It gets worse with other examples like Cruelty Squad, Transistor, Disco Elysium, Noita, Left 4 Dead 2, etc that have heavy story focus and or create a specific experience for the player.
>>738417930>if so then all good art is a "dopamine stimulant"No it isn't. You think you had a point here because you have a double digit IQ. And dopamine isn't "bro science", it's basic knowledge, you retarded nigger.If you want to keep shuckin' and jivin' on Fortnite for 16 hours a day, that's fine. But you are in no position to call that waste of life "art". Accept your place as subhuman niggercattle and move on.
Ebert WON
>>738410874Why hire artists then?
If someone thinks something someone made is art than its art and even if someone else doesn't think its art it's still art.
>>738417515What do you guys reckon motivates people like this to come here and try to be as obnoxious and retarded as possible?
>>738411023Gone Home is... modern, the art is made for the artist, not interactive media enthusiasts. If you want to know the hard truth, the fucked up truth. Candy Crush has more in common with traditional art theory and philosophy than 'Gone Home'. Hell, even Call of Duty is a better representation of how to combine art and technical prowess.
>>738418627Ebert lost and got raped.
>>738418583All art should be fun or at least interesting. I'll never understand people who call poop smeared on a wall or whatever art.>Disco ElysiumThis one isn't art though, it's just political mental illness.
>>738410874Define art faggot
>>738410874TRVKEWhy people think video games not being taken seriously as an art form is a bad thing, I will never understand.
>>738418731That art type can be legitimate if its purpose is in subverting your expectations, pulling attention to some simple, but important detail/issue. And sometimes arts entire purpose is to cause strong emotional response. Be it rage, awe, or something else entirely.
Anything that tells a story is art because the story itself is art.Video games are just a medium for telling stories, like the written word, or music, or film.
>>738418607lmao the fucking irony of this postpost your favorite books and painters you've checked out recentlyyou won't because you're a soulless npc shitnigger who doesn't know shit about art, please don't attempt to discuss art ever againyou don't exercise logical thinking, you don't yearn, you are subhuman cattleart is fun, always has been and always will be - pseudointellectual midwits need not apply
>>738418952It's a combination of mediums, a vehicle.
>>738418952>music>medium for telling stories
>>738418627How the fuck anyone gonna pretend film/photography is art? The camera is doing all the work.
>>738419139It was the case since the dawn of time, and if you take a look at classical written music it always contains some kind of story without even a single word. And it works.
>>738410874And that's a good thing. Anyone who say otherwise is a pretentious snob who think video games can be used to pitch their movie ideas. Hollywood can fuck off with their movie & tv show wannabe games.
>>738419139https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA2ZoFZza5AWhy not? Many Native American tribes conveyed fables and stories through music/chants as well, as well as other cultures.
>>738418913>le subverted expectionsanything dont to annoy or disgust others isn't art no matter what any other faggot says, there's no value in garbage>inb4 le argumentative debate me bro bullshit
>>738410874All games are art. Not just video games, but sports, and table top games, and board games. Hide and seek is art. The mistake people make every single time is that they equate art with quality. If something is art, that means it's good. Calling something art is a synonym for calling it good. But that couldn't be further from the truth and thinking that is a sign that you're fucking stupid.
there's two issues with video games being art:1) interactivity is actually a detriment to art2) the utter lack of anything important ever produced by the medium. Literally every video game ever made has no value of expression to the collective human experience that a movie or book hasn't done better.
>>738419618Of course art is a synonym for good, otherwise you have to deal with assholes that will claim the greatest artistic masterworks ever crafted by human hands are on the same level as a banana taped to a wall.
>>738419618This definition of art is just a modern delusion that completely waters down the meaning of the art and makes it meaningless. Art was never conceived or thought as ''anything anybody creates''. In fact, not even you, or anyone who uses this argument thinks this way; you only say this in rhetorical discussions. Outside rhetoric, people use the word art to describe what they find good and beautiful, never to describe just about anything. And insisting on using it to describe anything not only is wrong but serves no purpose other than destroying the word.
>blatant garbage bait>retards taking it seriously>faggots who think it's debate class hammering out essays>even bigger faggots trolling by pretending they hate videogames, yet still post here
>>738410874>implying art is a meaningful concept
>>738410874Already are. Art is cultural expression and communication through skill and, like it or not, videogames represent our contemporary culture, which is defined by interactivity. You may be too young to remember but the communication paradigm shifted dramatically thanks to globalization and the masses embracing the internet. It is a completely different world now than the world that birthed cinema. Is it better? who can tell? That´s a different discussion, all i´m saying is that video games clearly reflect it. If you take offense from such reflections that´s on you. I´ll just say your anger seems... misdirected.
>>738419831>otherwise you have to deal with assholes that will claim the greatest artistic masterworks ever crafted by human hands are on the same level as a banana taped to a wall.They are literally both art. The difference is one is incredibly art, and one is shitty art. Why is that so fucking difficult to understand? Do you think it's impossible for art to be fucking shit? It happens every minute of every day, the human race is CONSTANTLY churning out literal tons of garbage art. That doesn't make the great art lesser. >>738419902>Art was never conceived or thought as ''anything anybody creates''.That's not what art is you fucking dumbass. Art is physical expression of a human mind that is not explicitly created as a tool. We make tools, and we make art. That's about it. And yeah, oftentimes we make bad art.
>>738420126>That doesn't make the great art lesser. It absolutely does by being categorized as the same thing. If I call a literal turd on a slice of bread food, I'm decreasing the value of a well cooked meal.
>>738419013I don't need to do that to prove to you that pressing buttons in front of a screen for 16 hours a day is not art. That is a self-evident fact to anyone who is not trying to justify their own subhumanity.You can't just throw my own insults back at me and expect it to work, by the way. You're the one here who thinks he's indulging in high art watching the shooter man running around shooting things with his eyes glazed over. You are no different from a baby scrolling Youtube Shorts. You are the DEFINITION of cattle.You also don't get to call anyone a pseud when giving the most kiked pseud definition of art there is. You know art is not just "fun", that is mind-bogglingly retarded. You know that's just a cope for your own helplessness. Or maybe you don't, it doesn't matter to me either way. Keep being a golem if that's what you want.
>>738410874They are superior to art.
>>738420257>I'm decreasing the value of a well cooked mealNo, you are not. In what way are you doing that? Do you think definitions based on usage have cutoffs for quality? Are you fucking stupid? If I make a shitty 3D printed gun that breaks after the first shot, I'm not devaluing the efforts of Heckler & Koch.
>>738420126Except, again, it was never used or thought of that way. It has always been works that exhibit technical skill, beauty, aesthetic sense and, usually, communicate something about the current culture or about the human experience in a precise and timeless fashion. And by insisting on calling it any physical expression that's not a tool you are both historically wrong and pursuing a line of reasoning that does nothing but water down art.
>>738410874Its never going to be art for a few reasons>the journalist piggies think art means trans fat quirked up lesbian teenagers experiencing depression or the exact same sony storyline they've repeated on every single series since the ps3 launched>people want to just fuck around, nobody plays video games to read or think, go read a book nigger>devs are incompetent>writers are failures who couldnt make it anywhere else>the suits just want moneyYou have a medium where the powers that be just want to put $5 in and get $10 out, the players just want background noise while they talk with their friends or watch some slop on the second monitor, the people telling the stories couldnt make it in any other field, and the ones programming the game have no brains or skillWhether the medium is capable of producing art is irrelevant when nobody in the ecosystem wants it to be
>>738420389>If I make a shitty 3D printed gun that breaks after the first shot, I'm not devaluing the efforts of Heckler & Koch.Yes you absolutely are. If I call a lump of shit a woman, I'm insulting your mother. You are extremely autistic if you don't get this and very pedantic to even care about arguing this point.
>>738420353>I don't need to do that to prove to you that pressing buttons in front of a screen for 16 hours a day is not art.Of course that's not art, that's consuming art.
>>738420448>If I call a lump of shit a woman, I'm insulting your mother.No, you're not. You can cry and shit yourself all you want about this, but what you're describing is simply not happening.
>>738420375Hard agree. Videogames are sports.
>>738420448>lose an argument>start schizoposting
>>738420537You can cry and shit yourself all you want about this, but what you're describing is simply happening.
Honestly video games are better than art,they are actual experiencesThe good ones at least
Videos are literally a skinner box. All of them. No matter how much context you surround it with or how much you mask the reward-punishment system in play, at the end of the day they all are a model of incentive - failure - reward that's meant to engage you. They are not a good system of self-expression but a good system for fun.
>>738410874Art is a method of conveying an experience or feeling that can not just be conveyed through simple language, video games can be art, or it can be a piece of pure propaganda and advertising that contains pieces of art. Kamiya is wrong and Okami is art, as is the gameplay of Bayonetta etc.
>>738420654>someone refuted me, they just be schizoI accept your transcession.
>>738410874tr/v/e.
>>738420656Where is it happening? In your own mind? Do you think if you start saying that a lump of shit is a woman on the street, someone is going to step to you and say you insulted their mom? Do you genuinely understand what delusion you're arguing for? Something that is of poor quality existing under the same definition of something that is high quality does not hurt the thing of higher quality.
>>738420828>Do you think if you start saying that a lump of shit is a woman on the street, someone is going to step to you and say you insulted their mom? Why don't you go outside and try it?
>>738420946Why would I go outside and spout schizo bullshit to strangers in the hopes that they'd somehow interpret that I've insulted their mother?You simply can't get around the simple fact that quality can vary within a category. My little cousins drawing isn't going to be displayed in the louvre, but that doesn't make it not art.
>>738420741Except video games haven't conveyed almost anything meaningful or that hasn't been conveyed better in other mediums despite 40 years of existence. The interactivity or gameplay is always theoretically argued as good for putting the player in the experience in a higher, more immersive fashion, than a movie could, when in reality game mechanics just make players engaged in the mechanics.When I play resident evil 2 i'm not exploring rooms to find sherry or my brother, I'm doing because i wanna find cool secrets, weapons and challenges. The moment you put any mechanic that's even slightly engaging in your game (which should be the goal) a gap between the player and the character is made. When I watch a zombie mode I can fully get into the story and what the character is experiencing, in the drama there, in the themes, because real estate of my brain isn't being occupied by by whether or not I should upgrade my rifle, or whether or not I should spend this herb.
>>738421206The gameplay/interactivity is not a vehicle for immersion in the art, it is the art itself.
Correct. Art is fundamentally about expression on the part of the artist. Games sacrifice all agency to the player and in doing so forfeit all artistic integrity. In fact, the more "artistic" a game is, the less "game-like" it tends to be. See VNs or walking simulators for example.
>>738411393>gameplay itself is art Objectively correct.
>>738421159anon either he's baiting, you're genuinely arguing too well for this retard to understand, just move on
>>738421428Why would interactivity in resident evil be art and not in soccer
>>738421206Video games can convey aesthetics, unique feelings in the player, being engaged in mechanics creates human feelings in the player that are not recreated through other means yet, but even if they were would not invalidate them as art. There are plenty of video games based around using the gameplay and narrative to develop and aesthetic and a feeling in a way movies can't, such as Pathologic, or the way a game like P.T. or Romeo is a Dead Man can give you the feeling of wandering around a hallucinatory or psychotic mental space, that is what art is, using senses to convey an aesthetic, feeling orexperience.
me taking a shit is art
>>738421616No, I think the interactivity in soccer is art as well.
About time!
>>738420353see, you're such a clueless fucking nigger that you think i'm trying to elevate "shooter man" here, you still don't get itwhat you think of as "le high art" is not as impenetrable as you think, the only reason you treat art like it's magic is because you're a dunning-kruger pseud who never actually engages with the "high art" he claims to championyou treat art as some magical romanticized because you have no frame of reference to even comprehend what the fuck art iswhy are you attempting to discuss something you have no clue about? why am i even replying to you? apply yourself and get a clue you worthless nigger NPC either that or fucking kill yourself
>>738410874I have not seen that image in 20 years, fucking hell
>>738421696No, that's just a natural process. But WHERE you take the shit, that can be art.
>>738421696How, where and why you take the shit could turn it into art, it doesn't make it art worth praising, but it could become a performance that conveys something to the audience.
>>738421770Maybe in a figurative way, like saying ''ferrari make cars that are a work of art'', we can say a beautifully played game is like a work of art. But no one seriously calls soccer, or any sport, art, in the way a painting is, because they lack of the most fundamental components that define traditional art. What would be your definition of art?
>>738422016>What would be your definition of art?I posted it here: >>738420126> Art is physical expression of a human mind that is not explicitly created as a tool. We make tools, and we make artTo expand on this, making a spear to hunt so you can survive is creating a tool. Making a spear because you think spears are beautiful and the way they fly through the air is beautiful is creating art.
>>738422016Not him, but the "art" in the game of soccer would be in the mechanics of the sport that basically create t hrough their existence this unique feeling and sensory experience that is only recreated through engaging in the mechanics of soccer, and the way someone engages these mechanics can become art in itself. Art is a human experience, a shit can be art, if you have an acid trip you probably experienced "art". Art is not some marker of high quality.
"People" who call video games "art" are the same who will be correcting others about anime not being a cartoon.
>>738422240Anime are cartoons since they are films using animations instead of real people, video games can be art if they contain the things that make something able to be called art.
>>738421628It is significantly more limiting to convey aesthetics and feelings in video games, because that requires limitation and framing. How can you precisely frame something to convey a specific thing if at every turn you have to account for player choice? camera angles convey specific aesthetics; games that control camera angles are hated because they restrict you. Game environments have to be thought first as gameplay backgrounds and second as conveying anything artistic.
>>738422195>a shit can be artthis is why "games are art" fags will never be taken seriously. because you have to redefine and lower the standards for art until video games fit the definition. no other artistic medium has to beg for a seat at the table, people just inherently recognize them as art because they comfortably meet or exceed the standards for it while games almost never do.
>>738422804Nigger, what do you not understand? The aesthetic experience of playing soccer is different than the experience of playing tennis.Some people prefer to play one sport over another because they prefer how the game feels to play.This feeling emerges from the game's actual rules and design, and that's why the act of designing a game is a form of artistic expression.
>>738420353>I don't need to do that to prove to you that sitting in front of a screen for 16 hours a day is not artGuess movies are out >I don't need to do that to prove to you that staring at a lump of marble for 16 hours a day is not artOops there goes sculpture Or maybe you’re a fucking moron
>>738410874Don't care. Not insecure about my virtual toys.
>>738422804The things you are saying neither invalidate them as being called art and contain subjective judgements and disregards the unique feelings that can only be conveyed through engagement with gameplay. There are games where the gameplay first and foremost is there to give you feelings that go along with the narrative, like Pathologic I mentioned, and there are games that use the gameplay and graphics to create a holistic experience together to convey a feeling, for example Tetris Effect Connected or Rez do the same thing some art works do but in new ways using gameplay.
>>738410874Anything that involves design is art. If you think being art is a value judgement, that's on you.
>>738422985Sports rules are designed around objective balance. The closest video game comparison is esports which no sane person would describe as art.
>>738422842Art does not have quality standards. Art has NOTHING to do with quality, and it never will.
>>738423181>The closest video game comparison is esports which no sane person would describe as art.Of course they're art lmao
>Videogames, a combination of several forms of media crafted to be experienced in a specific manner combining writing, visual design, and music>Not artCool, sounds good. So long as we agree Movies and Theatre aren't art either.
>>738423526see >>738411393
>>738423278>Art has NOTHING to do with qualitysorry but it does, higher quality pieces will inherently be perceived as more artistic by definition.>>738423329>Of course they're artthey're cynical cash grabs and about as artistic as average marvel slop.
>>738411393>gameplay itself is artwhy is it art?
>>738423684Higher quality works may contain a higher degree of artistry, but they are not "not art".
>>738423714Because it’s a form of personal expression. The player expresses themself through the choices they make in the game, and the developer expresses themself by creating and encouraging the rules of play.
>>738410874video games are interactive arthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_art
>>738410953fpbp
>>738410874How do you define art and how do video games fail to meet that criteria?Because this statement on its own is more worthless than an e-celeb opinion thread.
>>738423764if technicaly competency isn't the difference between art and "not art", then what is?
>>738423714because the act of playing a game is inherently an aesthetic experience, gameplay evokes feelings which stem from how the gameplay is actually designedgame designers shape the game's rules in order to express specific feelings and ideas>>738423971>The player expresses themself through the choices they make in the gamethat part has nothing to do with the argument, dumbothe artistic expression of "player choices" comes from the kind of choices that the designer ALLOWS players to make in the first place
>>738424446Intention and human involvement.
>>738420605Not that different from Sotheby's listings.
>>738424450No, I’m on topic, your reply has nothing to do with the argument. Just because they have a level of choice determined by the developer doesn’t mean that they’re not making those choices.
>>738424446If the skill involved is the difference between art and "not art", then there's no such thing as shitty art by definition, retard-kun.A five year old's crayon scribbles are art, just not good art.
>>738418731There was a urinal art piece and it's original intent wast mock the art elite for their pretentiousness. I think a good percent of those art pieces where the artist just shits on a canvas is just them mocking pretentious elites.
>>738423093Based.
>>738425872you made a category error by implying the player is creating art by playing the gamethat's false - in reality the gameplay choices are the art, and the player is consuming the art by having those choices presented to them
>>738426570The people who are established enough as artists for this kind of thing to be accepted in the first place are already the "pretentious elites", as far as the average person is concerned. The mentality these people are responding to, where art HAS to be proper and upright, has been all but dead for fifty years. The mentality they birthed, that art can be anything and you're a snobby old fart for disagreeing, has led to a generation of artists who failed to build fundamental skills to begin with and are now making spite for conventional aesthetic appeal the entire face of "high art".
>>738411073>>738411393Video games being classified as 'art' is what gave us this dreck >>738411023You don't want video games being treated as art.
>>738410874I agree.
>>738426945That is the result of a retarded snob who thinks "art" means "navel gazing fart sniffing trash" and that video games could be art if only they were lamer and gayer. The people behind shit like this would produce crap no matter what medium they worked in.
>>738426865That’s only contradictory if I agree with your assessment that interaction can’t be art, and from my first comment I made it clear I did not. Interaction can be art just like creation can be.
>>738411393>video games are art because gameplay itself is art>fortnut gifYou definitely said trolling was also art years agoprobably at school
>>738410874Can someone explain to me how movies can be considered “art” but not videogames? I never understood Roger Ebert’s whole deal with that
>>738410874Good. Art is for faggot commies.
>>738426945That’s so fucking stupid. That’s “liberals breathe air so I’m gonna asphyxiate myself” tier stupid. The refutation of video games as an art form by people who spend most of their time playing those fucking games isn’t a real opinion it’s just terminal irony poisoning. >If video games are art that means they matter, and if they matter then they’ve affected me, and if art affected me that means I’m gay and my /v/ friends will make fun of me. That’s you and everyone else in this dogshit thread
>>738427197>Interaction can be art just like creation can be.it can be whatever, but it must necessarily be a new and different piece of art, not part of the actual fucking gameunderstand your reasoning mistake here, your shit is all mixed up
>>738427603>necessarily be a new and different piece of artNo. Player choice is part of the decisions made by the designer and occurring within the game, and therefore all part of a singular, fluid artistic experience. Creating an installment art piece is art. Walking through the installation makes you part of that same art. Your apparent confusion lies at the keystone property of the art of games.
>>738422985That's the most flimsy and useless definition of art ever. You are defining art as basically anything that evokes any feeling in you.
>>738427404Because 1) video games never produced any worthwhile form of expression that movies or books haven't done better and 2) interactivity is Inherently anti-art
why are tendies so afraid to call video games art? is it because their favorite games are equivalent to macaroni shit?
>>738410874You don't understand the most basic definition of art but surely anything made by the woke mob and/or the corporate kleptocracy will never be art.
>>738422842This kitty loves her kitty food.
Niggas out here saying that skinner boxes are art because they make the rat feel good picking the cheese.
video games are art by definition
Icycalm solved this question 20 years ago. Anyone still talking about it is either ignorant or retarded.
>>738410874critics will NEVER be artists
>>738411023There should be a difference between game and interactive novel.
