why did they stop making games with complicated dungeons?
>>738447072how fun is going through that dungeon tho?
>>738447072gamers are dumb goycattle now and need simpler shit
>>738447161what are two of the funnest dungeons you can remember?
>>738447213can’t think of any really, they all seem like a chore. so I preffer being in and out of there pretty quick
>>738447367even something like sen's fortress in dark souls or water temple in OoT?
>>738447573Those are levels disguised as dungeons
>>738448020can you say that more coherently?
>>738447072Normies don't like to explore and get to dead endsThey need quick dopamine effects
>>738447213Blackrock Depths... now that was some kino
>>738447072Daggerfall's randomized dungeons are wack.
>>738447072The average person is an idiot and 50% of people are stupider than that. And now you want to put them in a 3D maze. You're sadistic.
>>738447213MM6 had many great dungeons. Dungeons I had to flee because the resources were depleted to keep pressing forward. It felt like an adventure and the stakes were high.
>>738448613>MM6is there a better way to play that than the old ui?something like tes3unity
I hate complicated dungeons. I don't like getting lost in real life, and I don't like getting lost in video games either. Simple as.
>>738447072Every review complained about Daggerfall's dungeons. That game was functionally unplayable without a spell that teleports you to the entrance.
>>738448760>game reviewers hated itwaow
>>738448158You will never be a woman, is that clear enough for you?
>>738449001so, basically, you can't?well my dude, if water temple in OoT isn't a dungeon in your dictionary, you should re-evaluate your mastery of the english language.
>>738449068At least I know the difference between a man and a woman.
>>738449198if it's you, you probably got that word wrong too
>>738447072Because having to constantly backtrack across corridors for hours while constantly bombarded with trash mobs that halt the already slow pacing is annoying and grating at best
>>738447072casual masses is where the money is. specifically the console gamers who don't like being challenged
>>738447072Daggerfall fags aren't Dungeon Crawler fans
>>738448020can someone translate this autism
>>738447072Devs were wasting 100s of hours making extremely complicated dungeons then forgetting to put anything worthwhile or dangerous in them.
>>738449624Daggerfall is a great crawler though.
>>738449624but it looks flashy
>>738447161I just played Daggerfall recently. The dungeons are a ton of fun. I must have done around fifty of them over the course of the game. I would intentionally decline the simple "go deliver thing to someone in this other town" quests because I just wanted to go do more dungeons.
>>738450371i'm thinking about playing it for the first time now.should i play with any mods? i saw they are all on nexusmods but my user account on there expired due to inactivity, ugh, i don't want to make a new nexus account, why can't i just download things why do i need an account
>>738447072It became harder and harder to properly display a complicated 3D map, especially when it came to displaying them in a sensible way on a screen. It resulted in them dumbing down and dumbing down the maps for more casual audiences, until they weren't complicated at all and just straightforward lines with perhaps a few optional branching paths.
>>738449782A game where 90% of the dungeons aren't planned and 100% of enemy encounters aren't either
>>738450553Just don't have a 3D map then, or any map at all for that matter? Maps aren't really a requirement. Immersive sims have extremely complicated 3D levels all the time and they seldom have maps. Deus Ex sometimes uses in-universe notes or a computer terminal for basic 2D overhead layout, but that's it.
>>738447072>using Daggerfall as an exampleA bunch of random procedurally generated corridors doesn't make it good. It's one of the earliest examples of soulless game design.
>>738450694>Zoomies can't find their way around a circle>how can we help them with navigating a complex maze?>let's turn the map off so they have no clue where they're goingAlso, good luck watching a zoomer try to go somewhere in Deus Ex. There's not enough yellow paint in the world to help them read a fucking note, to say nothing about actually finding a location and figuring out some way inside.
>>738450791totally wrong and with zero evidence to back it up. typical rabid schizo hater
>>738450627So? Is manageable randomness just bad now?
>>738447072>Game makes you visit direnni tower 5 timesthis game was truly a 5/10 experience WITH the unity improvements
>>738449624Daggerfall is just an offline MMO desu
>>738450959should i play an MMO, then? they sound funi like the animes and mangas about them
>>738450905But it wasn't manageable. It made the game practically unplayable and broken until the Unity port decades later.
>>738447072Because they are awful? (and yes i'm talking specifically of randomly generated infinite slop like Daggerfall)
>>738447072>>738447213Abiotic Factor had some pretty good "dungeons" lot of different paths
>>738451013Weird, because I played it just fine. It was buggy, but certainly not broken.
>>738451013everyone here played it with the unity engine, though. the original was on DOS ffs
>>738447072I want a remake of FTL's Dungeon Master.so bad.
>>738451178games in the 80s really hit differently huh
>>738451707I loved the puzzles it was great fun. "I arch yet have no back"
>>738451005try https://github.com/celguar/spp-classics-cmangos
>>738447072Because of ps5 """gamers""""
>>738452541lol they needed to add yellow paint to that?
>>738452503i don't know what this is. spp?
>>738451071>Was on DOSA lot of Dungeon Crawlers were. Retarded Bethesda faggot
>>738452541you prefer punching every wall in a 100 tile long corridor, hoping to find a hidden room?
>>738450905How about an actually designed dungeon for the majority of the game
>>738452592Single Player WoW/MMO package you can install to play solo with a simulated world/population
>>738452570Yes
>>738452661oh, thanks.i've never played wow. wouldn't i be losing out on a lot if i played it single player instead of online? i thought being multiplayer was kind of a bit part of it.
>>738447213Boletaria, Stormveil, Mesmer's Castle, All the Depths zone in ER... From makes KINO dungeons
>>738452773uh no, that game is an empty open world, anon on /v/ said so
>>738452758Right now vanilla servers are dead anyway, you'd have to wait for classic+ for that to be relevant again.
>>738452876surely there are new people playing all the time. isn't it a fuckhuge game with millions of players? no way i'd be the only new guy
>>738447072>>738447161I've beat it last year for the first time, don't have any nostalgia on this franchise and the only reason why i did it was because i love to play new franchises in order of release.Played on original DOS version on steam, without any pussy ass baby mods, fully vanilla, and believe me, sometime while playing it, i wish i did it.These dungeons are beyond frustrating, not in a difficulty way but in a boring way, on the las few dungeons i just looked up a map online because i was felling wasting more of my time on this bullshit, ALL of the dungeons have like 20~30% of interesting/history content, and the rest is just longs streches of nothing filler that serves no purpose other than strech the game time.They all look the same because they were all randomly generated and not hand crafted apart from a few main quest ones, it's just pure cancer, there's a middle ground between lost in exploration and completely bloat that the first game just nailed it, TES2 dungeons are just bad.
>>738452910they are all playing TBC or MoP or Hardcore vanilla (which is very hard)
When was the last time a game had mildly complicated dungeons?Elden Ring's subterranean shunning grounds?Shame the DLC level design was primitive as fuck.
>>738452963>the first game just nailed it,you actually played arena? you must be the only guy still alive who did. is it good?
>>738447161I might be autistic but i had so much fun playing (unity) daggerfall, especially its complicated dungeons. And this comes from a skyrimbaby.
>>738452910Only Vanilla is like Daggerfall, the rest are 'raid simulators'Wait for C+
>>738447072I just did a Daggerfall Dungeon last night w/smaller dungeons unticked, that was 90 minutes of corridors full of rats and bats, and town guards weirdly, to find a single ghoul's tongue alchemy ingredient for the mage's guild. I got the gist of the dungeon in the first 10 minutes the rest was a slog.
>>738447161It's Daggerfall, which people pretend is some super complex RPG but is actually an extremely shallow sandbox game, so it's not.
>huge dungeon>just some bats and a few human nonces
>>738453003what level of complicated are we talking?>press buttons in order (elden ring, zelda)>towers of hanoi (kotor)>poem interpretation (genshin)>shape rotation (botw)none of these are particularly complicated imo. at no point do you have to actually stop, think, and plan steaps ahead the way you would in something like chess. i don't think there are any games with complicated dungeons, the fun isn't in the complication, it's in the raw spirit of it, exploring the unknown, scouting traps, fighting creatures, finding treasure, managing limited resources. honestly, the puzzles in video games are so easy i'd rather not have any at all and have it focus on the parts that games do well.
>>738453078Was it good? ehh mehh, it's definitely repetitive but i never felt REALLY tired strangely enough, mostly because it's a very compact game, i've beat it in like 21 hours or so, can't remember.Keep in mind that i'm a very tolent person when is it about going back to old games, there's is some magic to that game still, but i'll say it right now, i'm never playing it again, it was nice to see but only in a one trip, not like fallout for example, i really loved the first 2 games and planning on playing again some day.
>>738447072Too bad Starfield didnt have randomized dungeons
as long as theres no unavoidable random encounters ill enjoy it
>>738455954>smallest daggerfall dungeon vs largest skyrim dungeon
>>738455954i like how the dungeon is so huge that it actually keeps going after hitting max render distance
>>738456184there are unavoidable random encounters
>>738447072Marathon's final map is a complicated dungeon.
