maybe he prayed really hard

>>738450776
cinemasins ahh thread

>>738450852
-shock games are supposedly all about autistic worldbuilding

orange twins time travel.
back 2 the future two

>>738450915
multiverse shit throws any worldbuilding and plot out of the window, the game stops making sense the second the characters go into their first rift

Nobody has yet debunked the american krogan video, btw.

the actual answer is that the US government builds it and then comstock subverts it and takes control btw

>>738451034
>multiverse shit
its funny how people hate that shit now but back then it was 2deep4u

>>738450776
Wasn’t Columbia funded directly by the U.S. government as a permanent world’s faire exhibition/model futuristic city?

I am still yet to play BioShock Infinite.
Is it even worth pirating?

>>738451306
it's a game driven by cheap spectacle and a lot of what wowed people back then probably wouldn't be nearly as impressive today
as a sequel to an immersive sim it blows
looks pretty nice though

>>738450776
The constants of the multiverse demand a man and a lighthouse exist, so in a way God actually did help him build Columbia.

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>>738450776
He and his cronies stole it from the US government who were backing up the project of the city. He wasn't the one who built it. The Luteces were the ones who were behind the technology. Besides, it was retconned like 5 times during pre-production.
>>738450915
>the land of god fearing puritans
>in the first 10 minutes of the game a whore gives you a sample of a mind controlling aphrodisiac in the open and nobody cares.
Don't think about it much. The whole thing is a giant mess.

>>738451351
>looks pretty nice though
I mean, that's what spectacle is. more like high quality spectacle

>>738451430
>the land of god fearing puritans
>in the first 10 minutes of the game a whore gives you a sample of a mind controlling aphrodisiac in the open and nobody cares.
To be fair, irl America is also like this. Nowhere else will you see as many self proclaimed Christian’s who sell their pussy for fent on the dl

Uhh the guys with the money thought his friend's floaty tech was cool so they gave him money to make a big city where he was the pope. Any more detail than that got scrapped or lost in the dev hell. Godfather of gaming BTW.

>>738451430
she does sell it as being about making machines do your bidding, but also i've known real american christians to do shit like argue that you can't rape your own wife so that kind of control being acceptable as long as it's self-serving doesn't seem TOO infeasible

>>738451306
No. Not a fun game like the last two, and has horrendous writing.
There’s obviously all the nigger political shit, but the actual main issue with the writing is that the introduction of magical dimension-hopping bullshit (which they try to justify by calling it quantum physics) both totally muddles whatever the intended message was supposed to be and makes you not care about anything that is happening. You killed the bad guy? Who cares, there’s an infinite number of bad guys in an infinite number of universes. It’s a meaningless victory. Andrew Ryan on the other hand was a real guy, and there was only one of him. You fucking hated the guy and wanted to kill him, and then the twist totally recontextualizes your view of him.

>>738451775
>i've known real american christians to do shit like argue that you can't rape your own wife
I mean, you legally couldn't until 20th century. Marriage was an unconditional form of consent.

>>738451881
I didn't particularly hate Ryan.

>>738451881
infinite's politics are pretty much just "extremism is bad" to the point that they felt they had to backpedal a little in the dlc in making the person rising up against the genocidal slaver empire "just as bad" as comstock

>>738451306
It's pretty. That's it. Go watch a ambience video of the game, look at concept art, and you'll get everything worthwhile. The writing is awful and the gameplay tries to copy several very different FPS games at once, doesn't consider how they clash, and doesn't live up to anything it's copying.

>>738451139
>multiverse
Marvel made people hate it

A JOLT OF SHOCK JOCKEY

>>738452040
i always got the impression that more than them deliberately watering down the game they were just trapped in dev hell for so long with levine's EXPERT DIRECTION that eventually they were forced to churn out a linear shooter with what they had

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>>738451351
>it's a game driven by cheap spectacle
It's a game driven by false advertising and hype*. People were blown away by the fake E3 "demo" and false promises not by the final game. Many stayed in denial even after the premiere and kept deluding themselves for way to long. The project bioshock infinite appropriately named "icarus" when it started its development was an absolute failure on almost every level. The final version that was less than serviceable wasn't even directed by Levine, outside of maybe story bits, but by Rod fucking Fergusson. It was a snake oil in a shape of a game.

>>738451931
He’s portrayed as an arrogant businessman who hates poor people and tries to kill you. He has basically no redeeming qualities until you piece his whole story together, and realize that all of his libertarian beliefs aren’t hard ideological values he subscribes to but rather a harsh overreaction to being persecuted by the Soviets. It’s very much tragic irony in that his efforts to keep himself safe from others winds up being the thing that gets him killed. But before you get all of that context, hearing him go on in the prerecorded speeches saying that altruism caused the holocaust and slavery is wild

>>738452079
>Marvel made people hate it
in the 60s?

>>738452236
players fucking loved infinite in the weeks after it came out, as did reviewers moreso than usual.

It was built using taxpayer dollars and then the rich elite just said "lol" and then "lolmao" while flying away on THEIR flying island from the rubes whose money they stole to build it.

>>738452008
The problem however is that by invoking Bioshock 1 and treating the plot structure of Bioshock games as a metaphysical constant, infinite is saying that Comstock and the white nationalists are worse because they created the conditions for black-on-white violence. Daisy Fitzroy’s predicate cause is Comstock’s violence against minorities, but Comstock’s predicate cause isn’t black violence against whites, it’s Comstock deciding to become at peace with killing lots of injuns and chinks when he was a soldier. In that way, white supremacy is self-causing, whereas black supremacy is merely a reaction to external violence inflicted upon it. Thus the former is more evil in the eyes of infinite.

>>738451430
Vigors really did seem tacked on story-wise to me, they're just there and people have them, as opposed to plasmids that were intertwined with the story of Rapture itself and visibly affected the people

>>738450776
no

>>738452583
They definitely go out of their way to go "Daisy Fitzroy might be fighting oppression, but in some ways she may be... just as bad!" I don't know if they've ever talked about it but I'm almost certain that Daisy merely pretending to try to kill a child was a retcon when they realized that it was going too far to make her that evil. It's a rule by the elite vs mob rule thing but somehow it slipped their mind that Comstock's justification for doing everything is self aggrandizing and turning himself into a hero.
Also the Vox aren't black supremacists? they involve every oppressed minority of Columbia in their group. Including the Irish. They definitely go after anglos to an extent but I think this is more due to them being the de facto ruling class in columbia.

>>738452860
Most likely someone just decided it was le problematic to have a black woman act evil and gave her a noble reason to do what she did instead

>>738452827
they're literally stolen from rapture as part of the game's multiverse story, you even see that they've harvested the ADAM slugs in the DLC so they're literally made of the same mind-destroying stuff as rapture- it's just never relevant to the plot, even though ADAM abuse destroyed Rapture in like a year

>>738451351
>as a sequel to an immersive sim
You are an absolute fucking retard.

>>738453054
if system shock 2 is an immersive sim bioshock is an immersive sim, they're the same shit in every way that matters

>>738452335
In reality most "gamers" form their opinions before even playing the game. The game was a promised messiah that was supposed to save gaming market from cod clones and other military shooters.
>did reviewers moreso
They are usually midwits. Just as easily pressured by hype as an average gamer. And even back then they had to rush through the games before being able ti property reviewing them. And more critical opinions existed too, but they were immediately ganged up on by a blind, rabid fanbase. Here's an example:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150327001840/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc15KgfNJsw&app=desktop

>>738453338
>ti property reviewing them
*to properly review them

>>738453161
Define an immersive sim for me. I don't want examples, I want a definition.

>>738453553
loose design philosophy involving open-ended solutions to problems usually involving character building and utilizing limited resources and objects in the environment to your advantage

typically has an emphasis on exploration to get more resources/using resources to explore more of the environment

>>738453553
A game where you can flick the light switches.

>>738453846
truth nuke

>>738453016
Yeah they added some story about how they came to be IN Infinite, but that doesn't change that they still don't seem to affect the overall story at all like Plasmids did

>>738451430
>>738452827
I don't think Levine thought out anything in Infinite's story. I have no clue how it was so universally praised at launch when it wasn't even an improvement over Bioshock in any single way, not in the writing or gameplay department. Maybe if you really prefer the sky to the bottom of the ocean?

>>738454031
it looked pretty and multiverse shit was a relatively fresh story direction for games at the time it released
that's like 90% of it

>>738452860
Daisy Fitzroy is Fontaine in the cosmology of Bioshock. She is a force of evil that was created by the predicate evil of another group. In Bioshock 1, Ryan’s insane Ayn Randian anarchocapitalism is what allows Fontaine to maintain his grift. In infinite it’s against the backdrop of overwhelming white supremacist violence that the Vox come into being. Thus, Eve if the Vox do evil things, they have a sympathetic cause. Comstock doesn’t. That’s the difference. Comstock’s evil is entirely arbitrary and capricious

>>738452583
By far the funniest take from Levine is "baptism and the idea of Christian redemption is bad because white people need to wallow in guilt over their actions forever or they become nazis"

I played it around the same time I played Prey, and it's nowhere near as good as Prey

I knew a guy who would go on really autistic and passionate rants about this was the greatest first person shooter game ever created. I thought it was boring as shit and had little to be impressed by other than the visuals

>>738454365
>I knew a guy who would go on really autistic and passionate rants about this was the greatest first person shooter game ever created
It's his way of confessing that he gooned to Elizabeth without saying it. She is the only redeemable thing about the game.

>>738454253
i mean comstock literally takes the wrong lesson from baptism, I don't think in any realm baptism is supposed to be that you actually didn't do anything wrong, there's not even any point to baptism in that case

>>738454197
The notion of this society built for pure whites with hard borders STILL importing and keeping around the people they supposedly want to keep out in the first place is so daft

Did these Californians just find themselves unable to picture a white society that didn't have ethnic diversity? Or did they realize its kind of hard to depict minorities as being oppressed if they're not actually there to BE oppressed

You definitely can't have a mega-rich society without there being schlubs below them as servants, but the same logic doesn't apply to an ethnostate

>>738454365
The guy trooned out a couple years ago and now calls himself a polyamorous bdsm dyke or some shit, btw.

>>738454574
yeah an ethno-nationalist state would never have an underclass of the exact people they hate. there's no world where that isreal

>>738454483
well no, he took the right lesson in the game's universe. Comstock sets up in one of his first voxophones that baptism is basically infinite's allegory for schrodinger's cat. A sinner goes in and a new man comes out. It feeds into the game's ultra popsci understanding of quantum physics and multiverses and shit. In some worlds you just have good bookers and in others you have bad bookers. Comstock is a different man from game booker, and especially the one booker who joined the vox.

>>738450776
>import niggers into their chud ethnostate they created because they hate niggers

why did they do it?

>>738454871
so they could throw baseballs at them

>>738454871
because they're incredibly rich and they want an easy oppress-able scapegoat that they can use as slave labor forever?

>>738454920
when they have robots and machines do most of the work anyway?

>>738454920
Neither Bioshock really had any automation tech

>>738454483
The idea is you can start anew a live a virtious life instead of being forever tied to your sinful past. Look how that worked out for Booker, he sold his child for drinking money, but even if the twins hadn't shown up he would've been dead in a ditch and Elizabeth would be in one of those cartoonishly terrible orphanages a couple years from then. All because he couldn't get over his injun-slaughtering days. The idea explicitly stated by Levine is that all Bookers that accepted baptism and tried to move on are evil, and all those who didn't are "good". It's not like he took the wrong lesson, the baptism itself was a step towards evil.

>>738455070
Replied wrong, meant for >>738455004

>>738453553
First person game where you have magic hands and a sword/gun in the other

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>>738455070
>>738455117

>>738455219
That factory still needed people working it
And production of goods is only a fraction of things a society needs labor for anyway

>>738454197
i feel like you're putting more thought into the whole "in every world there's a man in a city" schlock than they did, the circumstances between fontaine and ryan/comstock and fitzroy are vastly different. fontaine only has any sympathy in the sense that he's basically the honest version of Ryan (he just wants control over the world around him, in the end) and Ryan punishes him for it. They are both inherently selfish men. Comstock's "ideology" is that he entirely rejects the idea of guilt and responsibility for your actions to the point that he elevates himself to this divine status, and fitzroy is... pretty much just his victim? there's not really a slick parallel to draw beyond her getting wrapped up in revolutionary fervor and starting to butcher every rich white person she could find, and they retconned her brutality to be All Part Of The Plan as soon as they possibly could.

Infinite isn't even really about the conflict between the two in the way that Bioshock is about Atlas and Ryan. It's much more driven by the two main characters.

>>738453161
Immersive sim is not a genre. System Shock 2 wasn't even called that, only Thief and Deus Ex were. One is a stealth game, the other is an RPG. All "immersive sim" means is "made by Spector/Spector's hanger-ons"

>>738455114
booker the character treated baptism as a way to get away from his sins, not to accept them and move on because he's incredibly averse to responsibility, like with his drinking/gambling problem. booker as a person just won't respond well to the idea of being "born again."

>>738455004
they have basic automatons but you see laborers working all over the place in the industrial seconds of infinite
honestly i have no idea how you would automate the maintenance of a place like columbia, that sounds like a nightmare

>>738450776
That's the power of GOD

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>>738451123
Because he's right about Ken Levine

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>>738451306
It's basically consoleslop. Only try it if you like dumb shooters and can ignore the obvious propaganda.

>>738453016
Yeah that's my point. In Bioshock they're at the center of the collapse since the people got addicted to them and went nuts. In Infinite they're just...there...a bunch of world-changing drinks that you could remove from the game and the plot wouldn't change one iota.

>>738455615
The one fan of this game ive ever met who covers this game and its company religiously is some horror obsessed nigress who unironically does the whole youtube avatar crossing their arms with a whacky demon side kick bit

>>738455331
>fontaine only has any sympathy in the sense that he's basically the honest version of Ryan
fontaine isn't meant to be individually sympathetic. The problem with how muddled infinite is is that it sets up daisy as being the result of an external cause, whereas Comstock is uncaused. They were trying to parallel the way in which Ryan was abused by tyrants and then became a tyrant which allowed atlas/ Fontaine to exist, but it gets fumbled because there is no root sympathetic cause for Comstock being evil like there is for Ryan.
Ryan is a classic abused-> abuser character, like several other characters in the story (tenenbaum in particular). Fontaine's capacity for evil is uncaused but his ability to victimize is caused by Ryan. They got it backwards (likely deliberately) in infinite because the new fontaine is a black revolutionary

>>738450776
He basically became a megachurch preacher and assembled a gathering of followers (some of which would be wealthy) who financed him and his project. You may be a bit simple, anon.

>>738455864
this isn't accurate though, the government paid for it, he was a vocal supporter and then he took it from the government once he got a place of leadership within columbia

>>738455437
All I'm getting from this is that maybe every Booker is a bad person, and the only difference between him and Comstock is that Comstock was functional enough to make connections that allowed him to be a bad person on a much bigger scale.

>>738455910
It's both. Columbia was government-backed, but after taking it over he would have needed financial backers to keep shit going. My point was that he first built up influence as a religious figure, and that allowed him to surround himself with people willing to throw money and resources at him.

>>738450776
That's the power of Christ.

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>>738451306
No

>>738455919
>maybe every Booker is a bad person
yeah pretty much, he's allergic to personal responsibility and either allows guilt to consume him or self-destructs to the point where he gives away his own daughter to save himself

in the ending he (maybe) gets a second chance

>>738452236
>named icarus
>crashes and burns
It's like pottery, lmao.

>>738456081
genuine crime that a creature design as cool as songbird gets literally no combat or gameplay dedicated to it

>>738451306
Ignore the eternally jaded professional haters that answered you. I replayed it recently + the DLC and had a great time. It's not a 10/10 game but it has:
>a really cool setting and visuals
>a cool story with multiverse shennanigans and loose connections to the previous games
>fun superpower gameplay
>cute deuteragonist

If you're a jaded cunt who needs to nitpick everything to feel smart, then sure you'll likely find some plot holes or convenient story gimmicks.

>>738450852
You're on 4chan, anon. You can say ass.

>>738454031
Levine literally kept rewriting the story over and over forcing them to change the game with each change. He straight up scrapped the story 6 months before release and they had to redo the game AGAIN. Comstock was supposed to be a separate character altogether and Vox were supposed to just be an anti-government anarchist group as a "gameplay" trailer had them and a crowd of people harassing a postman before Booker stepped into to stop them from becoming a lynch mob and then they try to kill Booker instead.

>>738451034
I agree with this. I went in blind and lost all interest as soon as that dumb bitch opened a rift and jumpped in

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>>738453553
To me, a immersive sim is a game where the devs expect you to use real world logic to solve problems in the game, and not videogame logic. But for Bioshock, you need to play the game on survival difficulty with Vita Chambers turned off in order for it's immersive sim elements to truly shine. Playing any any other difficulty just makes Bioshock a sci-fi shooter (Albeit a damn good sci-fi shooter.)

>>738456917
What immersive sim elements does it have? It's just a shooter.

>>738454031
>I don't think Levine thought out anything in Infinite's story.
He actually did, sort of. He wanted to make his fan fiction based off resident evil (mostly 4) with multiverses(like in doctor who) in a sky city that allowed them for fun mechanics like the skylinesand big, open maps(cut feature), dynamic, floating islands that could crush into one another(cut feature) and flying Mr.X that would annoy through the game(cut feature). Elizabeth was obviously a sort of love interest that got repurpoused into a daughteru because of "political" climate and twitter grifters.

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>>738450776
>do they ever explain this
Quantum science that is basically just magic. The city is hovering above sea level where temperature is chilly winter climate -2 to -10 Celsius yet the citizens are chilling out on the beach in their underwears and the water doesn't freeze for some reason. Thats not even mentioning the lack of sunburn in peoples faces because of weaker protection from sun rays.

>>738454574
thats just american south

>>738457098
The first thing off the top of my head is how your plasmid abilities affect the environment. The most obvious example being able to zap water to deliver a fatal shock to your enemies (and you if you're dumb enough to stand in the water when you zap it) is fundamental immersive sim design.

>>738456917
>>738457337
What really breaks the "immersion" is that Bioshock enemy HP bars scale through the progress of the game. You're still fighting the same looking splicers in the final 2 levels but now they can take a full clip of a tommy gun to their face. At least 2nd game had the super-splicers like the big fat ones and the mutant spider ones who were understandably beefier than the regular ones.

>>738450776
>Build a city in the clouds
>The popular food sold in carts on the street is hot dogs
Do Americans really?

>>738456314
The game has tons of cool designs, it's a shame it's all stuck in BSI of all places.

>>738457460
The sausages were probably made out of pigeons.

>>738450776
I think objectivist zealot builds city in the sea, therefore religious zealot builds city in the sky - it rhymes like pottery - is about as deep as they got into that concept.

>>738457459
I agree that you would see such environmental interactions in immersive sim games, but I don't think bioshock infinite having that makes it an immersive sim. BotW has a ton of environmental interaction, but it's not an immersive sim, even if you installed a first-person mod.

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>>738457459
I'll concede on the point that the original Bioshock has shit enemy variety. Looking at the splicer concept art makes me mad, because so many kickass designs got scrapped because the devs thought they looked like "Scooby-Doo monsters". Fucking bullshit.

>>738455795
I don't think I'm with you there, I think you're attributing attempted depth and intent where there isn't much. Replaying Bioshock recently it's hammered in repeatedly that Fontaine, however desperately he needs to be reigned in, is being unfairly victimized by the standards of the ideals that Ryan built Rapture on. he is not personally sympathetic, but Ryan essentially conceding to Fontaine that anything goes in the struggle for power is what ultimately locks in the death of its ideology and rapid destruction as Ryan ultimately goes so far to maintain control that he gives up on the concept of free will itself.

Not to mention Atlas' followers have extremely legitimate grievances against Ryan, Atlas is just taking them for a ride. He probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere with his con in the first place if Ryan hadn't sold a world where every man can take a cut for himself, invited a bunch of magnates and revolutionary thinkers and then put them to work on the docks.

I dunno, I don't think the direct parallel is there. I think that like a lot of things in Infinite it's a clumsy hodgepodge of ideas.

Man I do want to replay Bioshock infinite
But then I remember that the Lady comstock fight exists and that urge vanishes real quick.

>>738457098
the character building and the environmental manipulation/resource management

fun fact that most people are completely unaware of: you can ignite bottles of alcohol with fire and throw them with TK and they function as molotovs.

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>>738457773
Neither are "immersive sims", environmental hazards simply make the standard combat gameplay loop more fun. Biggest sin Infinite has was Elizabeth having the ability to summon alternate dimension stuff on the battlefield but then all of them were boring supplies or turrets. You only saw parades and freight trains and tornadoes in cutscenes. Why not have them in-game? It would have made people deliberately delay the fight and explore the combat arena for cooler ways to kill enemies. Lot of combat arenas in FEAR are heavily scripted but people didn't mind that.
>>738457862
Yeah and then in Bioshock 2 they brought back the scooby doo monsters. Spider splicers look like weird Innsmouth fish people.

>>738458132
>Yeah and then in Bioshock 2 they brought back the scooby doo monsters.
That's because Bioshock 2 was made a by completely different dev team. A dev team that wasn't afraid to have fun with the enemy design. I love how the splicers look in 2.

>>738451306
No, by far one of the worst games ever made and also the worst BioShock ever made

>>738458393
>a by completely different dev team
Not really, technically by their B team with Levine's right hand man in charge https://www.mobygames.com/person/9913/jordan-thomas/ . That's also the reason why the little sisters are cuter in 2 btw.

>>738451306
No. watch it on Youtube if your really have to.

>>738456392
The only good thing about Infinite are its high production value and assets. The gameplay is putrid and got dumbed down even further, the story is nonsensical if you have more than 2 neurons.

It's essentially a tech demo, in fact the game would be much better if it were a walking simulator

>>738454253
Bad people use ritualism as a shield against having to deal with weight of their own sin, and twist the meaning of religion to suit their selfish goals is not even a remotely hot take.

>>738451034
Multiverse shit is equal to " it was all a dream" in my opinion

>>738458976
>The only good thing about Infinite are its high production value and assets
Technology wise, Infinite look like shit in 2013. This is the same year that crysis 3, metro last light, god of war ascension and many other lookers came out

>>738450776
anything is possible through christ mmkay?

>>738450776
I might be mistaken but isn't Columbia partially government funded? It was built to be a sort of floating 'world's fair' of technology and know how but got hi-jacked by Comstock after he got influence in the city.

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>>738458976
Infinite isn't even a tech demo, the artstyle carries the visuals that were already outdated when the game first came out. Very first 15 minutes of the game you look at a rose bush and realize how cartoony it looks. But it makes the game visuals stand the test of time better.

You will also notice Elizabeth is not fully motion capped. Majority of her animations are hand-animated, so she moves around like a Disney princess with exaggerated theater body language.

>>738451139
>>738452079
Multiverse is like time travel. Everyone and their grandma want to write a story about it while treating it like something new

>>738450776
They actually explained it. He goes from alcoholic to small cult leader to a moderate sized cult leader to getting a gig to do the Worlds Faire, embezzles a bunch of money from the government for the project, then fucks off to the sky with the singular Lutece's bullshitium invention.

>>738452008
>Extremism is bad
>But you get a paradise in the sky with magic powers
>If the blacks get equal rights for five seconds they literally send the city plummeting from the sky
I don't know man.

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>>738459560
Multiverse stories run into the problem that audience loses interest when nothing actually really matters in the story. Thats why the stories either have to figure out some bullshit how theres some "world prime" where things you do actually matter and heroes have to protect that or make changes there. Either that or heroes get trapped in evil monster dimension and the main goal is to escape that world.

BSI had a cool plot part where Elizabeth folds 2 realities together to speak to the chink man but then causes creepy anomalies everywhere. That should've been the main focus of the story where the ripping powers cause major issues and Elizabeth really is the dangerous monster the game portrays her to be. But then Levine said Nope and the game is suddenly about getting to Comstock although it might not even be the same dude anymore and nothing matters.

>>738459635
It wasn't much of a paradise, probably not even for the upper class. What did they have that the rich people on the surface wouldn't have had, other than magic powers (which they don't need)? At least with Rapture getting away from the world governments was supposed to be the main appeal, what's the point of living in floating America complete with floating niggers and floating potato niggers as opposed to the real deal that has all those same things too?

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>>738450776
>in bioshock 1 ryan can build rapture because he built himself up as a hugely wealthy and influential industrialist and thus had the pull and material support to make a huge project like this happen
If things weren't bad enough, it seems that even our water system's sprung a leak. Yep, that's right. The irrigation system in Arcadia is taking on sea water. I told Mr. Ryan when we were building this place; either you build her like a bathtub, or she's gonna turn into a sewer. "No, McDonagh," he said, "we're not gonna build no bathtub… we're gonna build Eden."

>>738459523
Their first major mistake was settling down with unreal engine 3 for their overambitious, semi-open world project
https://youtu.be/4wEAKkE882c?si=aTdHLcPUa0SJnb7a

>>738459635
columbia looks nice but it's pretty fucking shit if you're not already on top man, even ignoring that, you know, they're starting to abuse ADAM

>>738460067
But then again. Batman arkham knight used it, so maybe guys at irrational were simply incompetent.

>>738457920
In Bioshock 1, evil is depicted as being an endless loop of victimization that turns victims into victimizers, spreading from host to host like a virus. Tenenbaum was persecuted by the Nazis as a little girl who was turned into a monster (metaphorically) by Mengele. Tenenbaum then went on to turn other little girls into literal monsters with ADAM research. Atlas is the monster created by Ryan’s process of undergoing the victim->victimizer pipeline beginning with his persecution at the hands of communists and pivoting to reactionary anarcho-capitalism in response.
Bioshock infinite wants to make all of the major plot beats of 1 into these quantum metaphysical constants. There is always a victim who becomes a victimizer who creates a monster that destroys them. But infinite fumbles it by making Comstock’s oppression largely uncaused. I guess maybe he has PTSD from wounded knee maybe? But that’s still his fault for joining up with the army during peak manifest destiny and injun killing times. The monster (Daisy) becomes less a monster by comparison, and the whole story becomes a farce because the game is trying to insist to you that it is a quantum emanation of 1 when it clearly is not

>>738450776
He won the lottery multiple times

>>738452827
>>738453016
Instead of literally just being Plasmids, Vigors should have used the Lutece's dimensional tear technology to splice your DNA with the DNA of the you from a universe where people are born with the power to shoot fire etc

>>738451125
Oh yeah. I completely forgot about that shit. So he was basically like a preacher/really good manipulator, became a populist and took over.

The game is still steaming dogshit unfortunately. The second DLC was fine I guess... main game really sucked tho

>>738460410
...fuck, that's actually a great idea too. Would actually make sense with the games overall stupid ass plot

>>738454871
No amount of ethnonationalism can withstand the allure of cheap labor

>>738451034
>"Booker, go get us guns and you get blimp"
>gun guy is dead
>"what if we jump into a completely different timeliness where this guy is alive!"
>"Ok he's alive but his tools were confiscated. Let's go bring them back to him"
>"fuck, we can't actually carry large welding equipment and shit...so uhh...let's jump into a timeline where he's alive AND has his tools AND the Vox have their weapons"

This game went pants on head full retard with the writing once you get to the Vox.

>>738460294
Nah, Bioshock was just System Shock 2 in a new Ayn Rand-inspired sci-fi setting. If it wasn't for magical sea slugs making everyone go insane Rapture would still be under Ryans control after he became a hypocrite and strong-armed Fontaine out of the picture. The story is just there to point out its easy to be a libertarian when you're rich and on the top, its much harder to say a game doesn't need rules when you're suddenly losing.

>>738460658
Game would have been lame and woke but fun if it was just a straight up join the rebels and beat the bad guy oppressors plot the way it was initially introduced. You begin to try and form a tentative alliance with Daisy, then Elizabeth decides to jump like 17 alternate universes and the plot just starts being about quantum ghosts and shit. It was so jarring when I did my first and only play through. I totally stopped caring about anything and everything in the plot.
>Hm, guess I need to team up with the rebels to take down Comstock and escape the city with Elizabeth
>never mind, guess they’re just generic fodder bad guys now
>Ah, the evil robber baron is impressed by my combat prowess and wants to make a deal with me for his own protection? I wonder how the story will leverage this? Maybe he’s double crossing me? Maybe we’ll need to do a negotiation with him where we begrudgingly let him live to get something useful in return?
>oh ok we jumped through a portal and Daisy just executed him never mind

>>738461131
>I need to team up with the rebels to take down Comstock and escape the city with Elizabeth
Elizabeth could've "escaped" the city at any moment if she wanted to after the tower was destroyed. Hell she could still open tears to fucking Paris when the tower was functional. The only reason you're still there is to get revenge on Comstock 3, who is not even Elizabeth 1's and Booker 1's Comstock.

>>738460926
I vehemently disagree. Ryan’s libertarianism is a response to fleeing from the soviets who eventually seized all his land and assets. He basically says as much himself in his altruism speech that sometimes plays on speakers. His basic belief is that altruism motivates people to fuck with other people in the name of some righteous cause. Ryan’s libertarianism grew out of his desire to be left the fuck alone by everyone.

>>738461705
>Ryan’s libertarianism is a response to fleeing from the soviets who eventually seized all his land and assets.
But thats just Ryans motivation. The story itself depicts how he ultimately becomes a hypocrite in his ideology the moment he stops being the top dog in his own city. When Fontaine started selling magic slug juice to everyone and overshadowing Ryan, Ryan resorted to a violent takeover of Fontaines business. In other words he was the authority that seized the property of another dude.