Post em
>>738455291>synthetics will inevitably kill organics so we gotta kill you first :)
In a perfect world, men like me would not exist. But this is not a perfect world.
>The ordinary citizens of my country know nothing of the horrors of war, unlike myself, who grew up in an unparalleled era of continent-wide peace>I will teach them how horrible war is by launching an unprovoked attack on sovereign oceans on the other side of the ocean, even though we haven't developed ships that can sail out to sea, thus embroiling all of them in the horrors of war>But first, I must travel to another dimension and become king of a cyberpunk civilization, bring that technology back to my own dimension, then lead an unprovoked attack on my own nation, where I am the beloved leader of the army and heir apparent, to kill my father>I will then promptly lose my entire cyberpunk army of robots to a single small attack from one (1) of the sovereign nations that I had intended to invade with an army of people armed with wooden spears>I will then kill everyone in my new cyberpunk nation out of spite>The reason for all of this, you ask?>Tch... you wouldn't understand... People had... reasonable expectations of me that I exceeded at every point growing up... You couldn't imagine what that's like...
>>738455291isnt this your basic school shooter idea though? was Seymour just a little angsty teen?
I apologize for the ants pic but caligula2s father of the year>Be autistic>Get divorced over freak siren vr comatose incident.>Notice daughter is an autistic neet vtubing>Use authority to free previous members of said incident who if they knew who he was would kill him in a heartbeat>create a copy of said incident.>Kidnap own daughter and force her to be the very fictional idol she created against her will in a virtual world.>Never reveal to her he is her dad>What genius name should he use to hide his identity?? Lying man
>>738455406You idiots always leave out the part where the Reapers also kill off synthetics as well and ignore underdeveloped organics. The cycle is to prevent the synthetics that organics create from wiping out ALL organic life ENTIRELY. Its not your fault though. Small time thinkers never look at the bigger picture.
It would be more interesting to name villains that were not wrong like The Patriots in MGS2.
>>738456397Caligula Effect 2's story is nonsense, but this chucklefuck and his shit head daughter are pretty kino villains. They're so pathetic it's incredible.
is there a villain that just says they want to kill people because it'd be funny
>>738456038Most FF villains have the exact same motive:>Ex-Death in 5 wants to destroy the world because he’s basically a void monster.>Kefka in 6 wants to end all existence because he’s a nihilist who doesn’t see the point in life>Sephiroth and Jenova in 7 want to destroy all life on the planet because they think humans are harmful to the planet.>Ultimecia in 8 wants to destroy the world and create a dimension where no time exists because she’s scared of dying.>Kuja in 9 is similar to Kefka, and Necron is the literal manifestation of Death itself.The Sakaguchi era of FF has a lot of repeated elements, and villain motives is one of them.
>>738457029Kefka in Final Fantasy 6. He’s an edgelord purely because he hates people and finds being evil funny.
>>738456978All its bosses were stupid kino honestly and had great songs.>Kid who wanted to be a machine because hes terrified of death, instantly found out because of the grandma party member.>gardener neet who just wants to be alone with her plants and villainy is just being an asocial vindictive bitch whose parasocially retarded.>The doctor who would destroy thousands to fix the one paitent he couldnt...>...except he did, she just has munchausen and hes a dense moron>The landmine goldigging brat so misandrist she makes the 30yr old pervert look heroic in comparison>The PEAK Narc loser who uses the sim to trick people into thinking hes an astronaut, a god and an artist all at once. >The politicians daughter whose so elated she no longer has her crippling stammer that she cant stop shittalking everyone until she has nobody there to save her.>Father of the decade.jpg>Turbo autist who didnt even want this , did nothing villainousand is just pathetically crashing out while stuck in the automated defense system
>>738455959The worst vilain in entire ff14I don't even remember his name. Gulul ja ja or whatever
>>738457029Zenos from FFXIVHe fought and killed just for fun
>>738455959Can't believe this bitch was a trial boss.
>>738455291Nomura moment
>>738455291>"remaster"
>>738458940FFX wasn't a remaster, it was HD
>>738458940I don't know if there is a mod for him, but most major characters now have a mod that turns them into their PS2 look.
>>738457542it's a shame the plot had to pull a huge asspull for his development, thoughbeit
The preist guy from dragon's dogma 1And then the dragon, which he has spent the whole game trying to use as a weapon for great civilisational shift kills him and insults his corpse for being a dumb cult leader who drank his own kool aid
>>738459190to be fair, that's a very fucking funny scene
>>738455959I am in awe of how badly they wrote him. It reeked of a last minute retooling they didn't think about more than a single afternoon
>>738457478Wasn't Sephiroth just driven insane by learning his own backstory and wanted to take the planet on a joyride through the universe and Jenova was just an outer space monster?
>>738455959Evercold is going to be really good though sisters make sure to preorder!
>>738459895>take the planet on a joyride through the universe kek I remember a cartoon like that. Planets grew engines or some shit and entire civilizations just flew them around space like ships while others went around eating other planets like pacman. At the end of the day it was never clear to me if Sephiroth was being controlled by Jenova or the other way around.
>>738457542Wrong, he's a nihilist and he wants to the break all the people still living with hope inspite of him wrecking the world to prove he's right. He's not actually having fun, he's the most miserable person in the cast.
>>7384574785 and 6 are quite unique on its own. The rest is illogical.
>>738455291>"the middle aged man that molested me convinced me that might makes right and the only constant in the world is power!">party defeats the molester, proving that they are in fact more powerful>"NOOO NOW THE WORLD HAS TO END!"
>>738460292Shadow Raiders, I think. There was just the one planet that was flying around and eating the othersAlso that one episode of Invader Zim
>the world will face an energy crisis in 1000 years, therefore I must interrupt the super bowl tomorrow to fix it>can't it wait until after the super bowl?>NO IT MUST BE TOMORROW
>>738458008>did nothing villainousShe did nothing, and in doing so is in fact the cause of everything. She could have stopped it from the very beginning, and instead plays these games so you will save her from having to save herself. She's the most despicable one of all, which is why the main characters have no sympathy for her unlike the other musicians.
Why is this reasoning wrong?
>>7384552912spiritual4u
>>738455291name a villain with a good motive then
>>738457478>Sephiroth and Jenova in 7 want to destroy all life on the planet because they think humans are harmful to the planet. Hmm, no? Jenova is a monster that wants to devour the planet lifeforce, and when she is done she will just blow up the planet and go search for another planet to destroy. In the Japanese version it was implied somewhat that Sephirot is dead already, and Jenova was just pretending to be him in order to disguise her true nature. But Seph became a fan favorite, so they changed him to be in control of Jenova in later games/movies. But yeah, Jenova is actually trying to kill the planet because she is a cosmic parasite like Lavos.
>>738455291You cannot refute his logic
>>738459787He's an extremely rare instance of a villain that's retarded on purpose. Grigori oneshotting him and then making fun of him is supposed to highlight how beyond every mortal concern the dragon actually is, and how out of his depth the guy really was the entire time without even realizing it.And yes, the scene is extremely funny and beyond kino.
>>738460643Regret does discreetly help the protags break out when they're briefly imprisoned. The whole thing was shes just clueless in the situation because it was thrust upon her when she has no interest in this and is trapped in a role she cannot perform because a human cant be a deity. She crashes out because she hears all the peoples voices at once and ends up having a meltdown. I remember her ending changing on whether you've got the party bonds maxed out. X ironically is too dense and leaves her to die in the default but maxed ending she saves regret after smacking her and calling her a dumbass dork.
>>738461108>Is born with predetermined evil, so his sins are not his own, he is merely acting out the part he was given>...And yet he still feels guilty about what he's done. So was it really predetermined?
>>738459895Sort of>Sephiroth>...I've always felt since I was small...>That I was different from the others. Special, in some way.>But... not like this..._____>Sephiroth>Ha, ha, ha...... They've come again, mother.>With her superior power, knowledge, and magic, Mother was destined to become the ruler of this Planet.>But they...>Those worthless creatures>are stealing the planet from Mother>But now I'm here with you>so don't worry______>Sephiroth>...Mother... ...It's almost time.>Soon... we will become one.>Aeris>How do you intend to become one with the Planet?>Sephiroth>It's simple.>Once the Planet is hurt, it gathers Spirit Energy to heal the injury.>The amount of energy gathered depends on the size of the injury.>...What would happen if there was an injury that threatened the very life of the Planet?>Think how much energy would be gathered!>Ha ha ha. And at the center of that injury, will be me.>All that boundless energy will be mine.>By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life form, a new existence.>Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now...>Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul.>Aeris>An injury powerful enough to destroy the Planet?>Injure... the Planet?>Sephiroth>Behold that mural. The Ultimate Destructive Magic... Meteor.Sephiroth is the bastard child of Jenova's predation and Shinra's ambition. Sephiroth presumed himself special until he discovered the experiments that made him. The proper thing would've been to accept it and figure out how to live with it, like Cloud did. Instead Sephiroth doubled down. He's still special. In fact he's the most specialist boy who ever lived because Jenova was special. Oh Jenova was an alien predator? Well that doesn't matter because she's the best and therefore he's the best. Sephiroth refused to just let go and at every turn chose to enforce his shitty headcanon through power and strength of will.
>>738460418Who
>>738461587Not gonna lie, I REALLY like Malos even though I'm not a fan of his character archetype
>>738455291Seymour's plan makes more sense in context
>>738461169>In the Japanese version it was implied somewhat that Sephirot is dead already, and Jenova was just pretending to be him in order to disguise her true natureFake News. Sephiroth has always been the real one, Jenova is the one that is functionally dead- it has no aspirations whatsoever except eating and spreading. Sephiroth gives higher meaning to Jenova's actions. Sephiroth is dead, but not in the sense that he has ceased to exist, but rather that he persists in the world as a Grudge, and is reborn through Jenova.
>Prince of a powerful Japanese clan>800 years alive>didnt manage to accomplish anything
>we need to save humanity by killing everyone who isn't in the Enclave"but that's wrong, we're humans too">no you aren't, the DNA of everyone living in the mainland outside of vaults has been altered due to the background radiation and FEV exposure. you have to go."but what if we are slightly improved as a race? like we're 'mutants' but we've gained better traits?">that's probably true!... which is why we're gonna kill all you muties while we have the chance right now. the earth isn't big enough for the two of us.Honestly can't decide if they're based or stupid.
>>738457478Exdeath is rad af tho
>>738461380am i supposed to believe he will just kill himself after killing everyone also isnt everyone like a zombie or sum shit so why would i believe some dead fuck anyways
>>738461587I dont think you understood the character. Malos was just a blade therefore tied to the emotions of his "handler" but he didn't feel remose or guilt. In fact, quite the opposite. At the end when Rex tells him to just stop, because everything hes doing he's simply doing for false reasons that aren't his own, Malos just says "I dont care lol". I mean, that's LITERALLY what he says. And then the final boss fight starts. Malos is retard. A prime example for this thread. Imagine being told that everything you do is because you're brainwashed and then just shrug it off because you need to be the bad guy for the story. If what you're putting into him, were true, it would be even WORSE, because then Rex gave him a way out of his guilt and he'd still say no lol.
>>738457478>Ultimecia in 8 wants to destroy the world and create a dimension where no time exists because she’s scared of dying.Her and Z should hook up, I'm sure they'd get along
>>738455959at least we got the best bean out of the terrible villain
>>738456038Kind of but he had a good reason to believe so because he had advanced knowledge of the nature of the final summoning because of his mom becoming anima, knowing that the calm is built on the same sacrifices that ruined his life and made him an isolated little nerd.>>738457478I don't know what Garland's motive was.Xande was terrified by his own mortality and brainwashed by the cloud of darkness into joining the world of darkness with the world of light or something, so technically the cloud of darkness is the final protagonist and its goal is to take over both worlds.Emperor just wanted everything.Zeromus was just an evil guy, I'm not sure what he wanted, I think he was kind of like the emperor for space? I don't remember.I have no idea what ex-death wanted. He was kind of too sentient to just be a void monster.Kefka Doesn't really have a traditional motive as much as he just loves suffering and destruction, as far as I know he could've been stronger and had more control but he chose to wake the warring triad just to cause more pain and destruction because that's his bag.Original Sephiroth is more complex because we don't really know what emotions he was suppressing before turning into Jenova or if Jenova turned into him but ultimately he had a similar motive to Shinra where the promised land and the planet were his by birthright instead of 'because we can take it'Ultimecia was kind of like if Gestahl had won I think.Kuja isn't like Kefka until later, Kuja is more like the Emperor where he wants more control but finds out he can never have it so his motive quickly changes to more like Kefka's.I think Vayne wanted to control Ivalice, I don't remember.Barthandalus wanted to bring back the god that would later appear in Lightning Returns and it kinda worked for a bit.I didn't play FF15 much beyond fishing and chilling with the boysUltima wanted to bring his OG world back that was used to make the nu world, also Clive could be there.
>>738462803I don't like him. Useless little lizard bitch.
>>738457478>Kuja in 9 is similar to Kefka,He was the one afraid of dying.>Sephiroth and Jenova in 7 want to destroy all life on the planet because they think humans are harmful to the planet.Jenova is a literal planet eater and Sephiroth is Hojo´s son infused with Jenova cells. They want to keep fucking planets.>Kefka in 6 wants to end all existence because he’s a nihilist who doesn’t see the point in lifeHe thinks destruction and murder is funny.>Ex-Death in 5 wants to destroy the world because he’s basically a void monster.Because he is a tree forced to house demon nigs.
>>738462920:(
>>738462803He's trapped in the deadlands, though. I doubt we'll see much of Tural ever again
>>738461108Ryo Asuka
The father in CryMachina who decided to doom humanity after his death by overiding the overseer machine to prioritize remaking his daughter first over all else.Resulting in hundreds of human souls remade into android copies of said daughter, having to fight to the death to prove they were the real one. While causeing the machine who checks the souls to have a mental breakdown because he has to purge or send them to hell based on the most arbitrary criteria possible after scanning their entire life history. Where the singular winner is slowly converted into the daughter's past crush because shes a lunatic.
>>738461660Don't forget he's likely just the bastard of Vincent, suped up on jehova's cells and a superiority complex. Imagine the ego damage he took when cloud, by all rights some random mook to him, just 1-shots his ass and throws him into a reactor.
>>738462910Xande wasnt brainwashed by CoD. He inadvertently brought "her" back because she spawns whenever the balance tilts too much towards light or darkness in an attempt to return everything to 0.That's why you cant beat her unless you get both light AND dark crystals.
>>738455959thank god we never have to see him or wut lmao ever again
>>738463586Man I wish that was a better game
>>738459895Sephiroth wanted to become God because he decided humanity just sucks and the planet would be better with him in charge. Bog standard megalomania.
>>738456182>I'll keep on invading Europe one country at a time, while telling all the other countries I'm done after this one conquest!>WTF How could the English declare war on us???>I know, I'll declare war on the United States too, they're too far away to do anything!
It's Bowser. Why does he always put power ups in his castles that only Mario and friends can use?
>>738463638He
>>738463830Because he's a gentleman that wants a fair fight
To this day I don't get if she's poorly written or intended to be retarded on purpose
>>738462708Wow, you're more retarded than any of the villains in the thread. Guilt is entirely what drives Malos, because he grew attached to Jin, the fact that it was actually his fault that Jin's life was ruined is what ultimately kills Malos. He tells Rex he doesn't care at the start of the boss fight why? Do you not get it? Because he wants Rex to kill him. He wants to be punished. He doesn't believe he deserves to live for what he's done, and he's not about to let Rex save him. Hence his fucking break down mid fight.
>>738455291How is that retarded? In a world where a giant while murders your loved ones every few weeks, how is that retarded?
>>738463957Edelgard is a frustrating case. I understand what KT wanted to do and I commend them for trying it. But then I itemize what they actually did and I can't tell if they were fucking with us or not. Like there's almost a compelling character there but they half step on her so often to get us to like her that it ironically makes her less likable
>>738462708>>738463968Also, you misunderstood Klaus's response. Malos asks Klaus if his actions were his own, or Amalthus's. And what Klaus answers is that they were his and Amalthus. Confirming what he already knew and is shown worrying about all game, that he from the very beginning, always had a choice. He was influenced by Amalthus but he was still himself. In other words, what happened to Jin is on him.
>>738456554>We're going to stop the robot genocide by being weirdo robots that commit genocide :DActually, he is correct to make fun of it because it is dumb and you're dumb. What is the ultimate plan here? They're just gonna inevitably kill the "underdeveloped organics" because even though no one touched the Geth except for the Quarians, they are going to kill every species who is space fairing. They are NOT an intergalactic police force that comes into arrest (kill) people who break their law. If they smell that one person in the entire milky way has made a calculator that can think they will literally kill all species that have left the ground at some point.Keep in mind, the reapers were going to attack before humanity was on the scene. We were literally gonna get genocided because an entirely different species made some robots before we went to the moon lol.
>>738462910>I didn't play FF15 much beyond fishing and chilling with the boysThe correct way to play FFXV
>>738463771Honestly? Its fine so long as you underlevel a bit. The games stats heavily depend on your level. If you stuck to reccomended or greater you just deleted everything mindlessly in seconds. If you were too low level, you got 2 shot and did nearly no damage. From testing, being underleveled by 5 or 10 levels felt like a sweetspot. The combat was still barebones but bosses felt like bosses under that range.
>>738463957never romance bisexuals
>>738464405But I like Mercedes
>>738456397>>738456978The game kinda falls apart after Marie's arc is over. Remember when Regret wanted to make some kind of deal with MC in the hospital? Remember how Key is very bloodthirsty and is shown to be able to control MC's body? None of that goes anywhere.
>>738463957Poorly written is if a character's motivations are inconsistent. Edel's case is simply she's retarded (and consistently so).
>>738464259Yeah I definitely leveled too hard and not on purpose either. Still the music was good and the story was weird and twisty enough to keep me engaged. I liked that Zoe was so nice and supportive after her introduction in spite of how she looks like the biggest bitch to ever bitch and Noein has a great look.
>>738463503>I am a renowned scientist of privileged birth>I will use my gift of intellect and innovation to benefit mankind and uplift the downtrodden>ah, some of my fellow men are not thankful for what I do for them...>they just take what I give and then ask for more>clearly the solution is to recruit other rich people to my cause and make them into the new ubermensch while we genocide everyone else to free up lebensraum and resources to ensure plentiful lives for the remainderI've seen far dumber villains, in the very same franchise even. Lysandre is 'dumb' in the sense that he just can't see the error in his ways even when his conscience clearly cries out for the innocent Pokemon he plans to kill as well, but it does make sense why he is the way he is (dumbass thinks he knows what's best for everyone and falls into extremism).
>>738455959Zenos is worst>haha I'm just like totally le crazy and super powerful for no reason xD
>>738464506Zoe was a fun red herring and i love her kemono ginyu force of absolute dorks
>>738457029Luca Blight from Suikoden 2
>>738455291Had to dull my edge when i caught myself thinking that kind of stuff like the child of Sephiroth and Seymour.Stop pretending to be sad though.
>>738455959Dawntrail was a whole clusterfuck of writing incompetence huh? I sort of tuned out by Lv94 so I didn't pay too much attention to how retarted both the hero and villain of this story were.
Valid crashout and understandable motivations, or just a whiny, selfish crybaby "hero" that didn't follow the bro code?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nWHoYXIHeUThat theme tho
>>738455291FFX was the exact moment I realized JRPGs were gay.
>>738455291Considering that in Spira you can live your best life even after death, it’s not as retarded as it sounds.
>>738458940bit more like this for PAL because square were such fuckups, a case of pick your poison
>>738455291Jin and Malos from xenoblade chronicles 2
>>738461108I love Florida
>>738455291Bear in mind there that the Fayth are all dead and there are living dreams like Tidus wandering around. I believe the implication is that he was more thinking that Yu Yevon had the right idea and that keeping an endless dream of everyone who is dead would be preferable to anyone being alive.
>>738461169>>738461836as far as I remember, the sephiroth that the party keeps running into is jenova and the real sephiroth is frozen at the north pole and only wakes up for the final battle
>>738463610isn't Hojo the dad?
>>738465890yes>>738465972yes
>>738458940actual colors? In my video game? The horrors!
>>738465972Yes but maybe the twist is that he isn't, we're gonna need to wait for Part 3. Sephy sure as hell doesn't look anything like Hojo though, and it would've made sense for him to use Vincent's DNA over his own.
>>738460418I think some part of him was unable to get over the fact his elders genocided the world in the past with the rains of destruction and it just made him decide that actually doing that was based.
>>738464940https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViBlMIhglWs>"But there are four of you"
>>738457478Like half of these are wrong, good job.>Sephiroth and Jenova in 7 want to destroy all life on the planet because they think humans are harmful to the planet.Wrong. Jenova is just a parasite that travels the cosmos and sucks up the planetary life force. Sephiroth, on the other hand, went insane and started to LARP as an Ancient with Jenova as his mommy that he never had.>Ultimecia in 8 wants to destroy the world and create a dimension where no time exists because she’s scared of dying.Not quite. She’s not just scared of dying; she had been persecuted by the SeeD all her life and is trying to stop her nemesis, whom she knows as the legendary SeeD, from winning. Unfortunately for her, she’s in a stable time loop and her efforts only create Squall and ensure that everything she fears does happen.>Kuja in 9 is similar to Kefka, and Necron is the literal manifestation of Death itself.Wrong. Kuja is a manchild who is originally just a piece of shit for the hell of it, and then throws a tantrum because of muh short lifespan and how it’s totally not fair, you guys. On that note, the “””””redemption””””” the writers gave him is one of the dumbest and most forced pieces of writing in the entirety of FF.
>>738466149i didn't play the new remake, but it was mentioned in other spinoffs. dirge of cerberus maybe?
>>738466281>Jenova is just a parasite that travels the cosmos and sucks up the planetary life forceinb4 CT x FF7 crossover game where Lavos and Jenova team up/fuse together
>>738466407Give it another few years until SE makes a Chrono Trigger remaster in the vein of FF7's and they announce that Lavos and Jenova are the same species and the Chrono Trigger world is another planet in the FF7 setting.
>>738461169>>738465890>it’s the “Jenova is the real villain, trust me bro” schizos againGood god, you people have been proven wrong like hundreds of times already, how the fuck do you still exist? Even OG explicitly spells it out for you that it’s Sephiroth who is in control.
>>738466149We don't need to wait for anything, Hōjō flat out tells you that he's his father on the cannon in Midgar
>>738464214Nta or any anon in this chain. But weren't the reapers just harvesting organic material to make new reapers? I thought they were merely waiting for enough organic material to become available each cycle.They hang out in deep space so why would they care what happens within the galaxy?
>>738466309OG, CC, Dirge, all the Ultimanias and god knows what else all agree that Hojo is Sephiroth’s biological dad. The Vincent theory is a pathetic cope from Vincent fangirls who can’t handle the idea that their favourite pretty boy was a useless cuck.
>>738463503>>738464825IIRC in Pokemon Special his plan was changed so that he gathered the uber-rich into Team Flare, with the plan of nuking Team Flare's own base to get rid of all the assholes who wanted to kill off the common people.Unfortunately the protagonists stop him because they don't know his real plan, and some of them even get paranoia afterwards because most of Team Flare escaped and went back to their normal lives.
>>738465890The Sephiroth the Party constantly fights is still Sephiroth controlling Jenova remotely. That's because the real Sephiroth isn't the one in the cave, or the jenova you always fight, the real Sephiroth is in the life stream like an evil ghost. He manifests in the real world through Jenova and through Reunion he gathers enough cells to rebuild his injured original body and becomes Sefer Sephiroth
>>738462910I didn't play all of the FF11 expansions but I did play the original campaign and I think the Shadow Lord wanted to get revenge on racism or he was a manfestation from another dimension like the cloud of darkness and racism was the catalyst instead of mortality.Gaius wanted to conquer eorzea, this later changed because he found out about belowThe Ascians want to bring their OG world back that was used to make the nu worlds and use >>738463638 This method to do it.Thordan is racist I think, he just really hates non elves or something also he's an evil pope so there's a religious reason for it.Nidhogg is out for revenge because of Thordan and elves like him.Zenos is just crazy, somehow crazier than Kefka, his motives change on a whim but stay centralized around fighting off boredom.Emet was like a normal ascian but he grew close to humanity by pretending to be them, so he was ultimately ready to resign the fate of the ascians to humanity if they could defend their world from him.Elidibus was like the normal ascians but led a life similar to a normal protagonist, he wanted to bring back the glory of being the protagonist again.Fandaniel was a normal ascian except a mental retarded as well as crazy.Meteion scrolled through late 00s shock websites and became kefka with no personality.Sphene is similar to the ai that was told to keep making pencils and then came to the natural conclusion to destroy everything. She doesn't have any real motives because she's not a person.This>>738455959 happened.Calyx is gay and wants to live forever or something, I don't care.
>>738465610I remember playing the PAL version. Everything was hilariously slow and stretched out.
>>738466984Gaius is basically motivated by white man's burden. He thinks Garlean technology and society is the best in the world, and that everyone would be better off under their rule being uplifted away from worshiping things like gods. The problem being, yeah, turns out his society is actually a puppet for ancient immortals who want to kill everyone to bring their people back, which is why they keep promoting literally insane people and making the world worse. He wakes up and looks around and realizes he's basically the only person with power in Garlemald who actually believes in helping others and that he's been played a fool this entire time.
>>738463821>I’ll also declare war on my best friend Stalin, who has been supplying me with key resources that I desperately need and helping me evade European sanctions for two years, therefore cutting myself off from those resources and gaining a new enemy in the process! I see absolutely no flaws with this plan!Don’t do drugs, kids.
>>738466984>Thordan is racist I think, he just really hates non elves or something also he's an evil pope so there's a religious reason for it.Thordan is racist against dragons, he refuses to trust the idea of making peace with them. He also recognizes the Ascian problem, but thinks that if he becomes a powerful enough Primal, he can fight back against them and stop the rejoinings. He's also got that typical "I'm a good ruler, if I become immortal and powerful I can lead my people to prosperity forever" attitude. He refuses peace, he overestimates his abilities to fight demigods, and he ignores repeated warnings that becoming a Primal is going to make him go crazy and corrupt people into his slaves. Basically what gets him is ego and paranoia.
>>738464214>We were literally gonna get genocidedWe were literally going to get spared because without discovering the mass relays we likely wouldn't qualify as sufficiently evolved for reapers to harvest us>>738466806>But weren't the reapers just harvesting organic material to make new reapers?New reapers were a byproduct of their real goal and a necessity to replenish forces after each harvest war, their primary goal was to harvest all DNA to preserve all the species they harvest within themselves before the AI they developed can Skynet them and store them until the retarded AI on catalyst can figure out a solution (which according to synthesis ending was to rewrite everyone's DNA to be half machine then inject them with the 50 quadrillion years old mutt cocktail that's been simmering inside all the reapers so that all the trillions of races harvested can be "reborn" as 0.000001% of the survivors in current cycle)
>>738461169Jenova is just the equivalent of Toxoplasmosis in Sephiroth. He is still the one in control, but his desires and behavior are being manipulated.
>>738467571>before the AI they developedFUCK, other way around - the AI made the reapers and then set them on auto-repeat until it could find the solution. The AI itself was made by the giant psychic squids you find in the DLC
>>738466984>Thordan is racist I think, he just really hates non elves or something also he's an evil pope so there's a religious reason for it.Thordan is leader of a nation that has been at war with dragons for generations. Thordan knows their enemy will never relent, and he also knows that his ancestors were entirely at fault for provoking the dragons into vengeance. Instead of letting the nation potentially self-destruct from the truth of the past being revealed, he seeks power to defeat any enemies of his nation, dragon or otherwise, and unite everything under his rule, or something like that. He does this by embodying a false god summoned onto his flesh which is super bad news in the FF14 world because at that point he is very likely to lose his sanity to said false god and also sustaining the god-form drains the land of life.>ZenosPrince of the evil expansionist empire who doesn't care about anything besides the thrill of mortal combat. Very boring and flat dude, to be honest, even when the game does its best to play him up as a dark foil of the player character.
>>738462910>I think Vayne wanted to control Ivalice, I don't remember.Two things.1. He wanted humans to control their own fate without gods meddling in their affairs.2. He wanted to conquer the kingdoms and clean out the trash inside his empire. Then hand all authority over to his little brother.
>>738463610Correction, Cloud 1 shots him twice. Once at the tank with Jenova using the buster sword. Then a second time on the walk way after getting stabbed and without the buster sword. That also means the excuse of, "He had the pre-emptive materia!" doesn't fly, because he didn't the second time and Sephiroth acted first.
>>738462910>I don't know what Garland's motive was.On the first cycle, Garland is just a knight-errant who kidnaps the Princess of Corneria and gets his shit pushed in by four warriors in the Chaos Shrine. His broken body gets pulled into the past Chaos Shrine by the Four Fiends and is healed in exchange for sending the Four Fiends into the future that Garland came from. This process turns Garland into Chaos. then when the Four Fiends get their shit rocked by four warriors, their broken bodies get pulled backwards through time by Chaos to be healed in exchange for them to return the favor to Garland when he gets his shit rocked ad infnitum, until the Four Warriors of Light break the cycle and destroy Chaos once and for all. His original motive was maybe that he wanted pussy, but it then became wanting to preserve his own life for eternity.>I have no idea what ex-death wanted.Exdeath is a tree that was supposed to purify evil, but became corrupted by too much evil for it to process. It was just evil for evil's sake, I think, because that's all it really knows.
>>738455291Him and Auron are proof that people can continue living in Spira despite being ghosts so he's kinda right.
>>738462910>I don't know what Garland's motive was.Total Lufenia Death
>>738467862>he also knows that his ancestors were entirely at fault for provoking the dragons into vengeanceEh, it's more complicated than that. Midgardsormr was going to make Nidhogg his successor, and Ratatoskr confirmed that Nidhogg hated mortals and was going to enslave and abuse them, which she didn't really care about stopping it. It might seem horrible to butcher someone who wasn't hostile (Ratatoskr) even if she was indifferent to their future suffering, but they literally had no other choice except to let Nidhogg ascend and start enslaving and torturing them first just to have it be 'moral' when they strike back. Knowing what was going to happen, it would've been foolish not to act first.
>>738468061I don't remember that explanation. I like it more than "Bad men wanted power and took it", though
>>738468154They still paint Thordan the first as bad for seizing power and slaughtering dragons to trigger the whole war, but with the full information provided it always struck me as fucking bizarre how the game doesn't acknowledge what would've happened if he didn't, even when it has Ratatoskr tell Thordan in the back story.
>>738468025Unsent ghosts become fiends
>>738465308His meltdown is valid but what he tried to do isn't. His bro didn't tell him shit and literally ruined his life. Streibough is an asshole.
>>738467879FFXII runs into the weird Japanese problem where the antagonist is both more interesting and ultimately more right than the protagonists, so the writers then have to hurriedly invoke “no u” to have a final boss and the standard happy ending. The Ultimania goes in depth about the long-term structural problems of Ivalice, how shitty the Occuria are, how much Vayne loves his brother and wants to reform the empire, but in the end you just want to play as his side rather the chucklefucks we got.
>>738468617>d ultimately more right than the protagonistsNot really, we see the end result of Vayne's anti-god attitude in Tactics and Vagrant Story and it's not great.
>>738468025Only people with strong willpower can maintain themselves while unsent with most of them degenerating into fiends over time
>>738468584>>738468703Auron is a beast for sure to go 10 years without becoming a fiend.
>>738468703That's true but there's a second part to that>Lulu: The dead need guidance. Filled with grief over their own death, they refuse to face their fate. They yearn to live on, and resent those still alive. You see, they envy the living. And in time, that envy turns to anger, even hate. Should these souls remain in Spira, they become fiends that prey on the living. Sad, isn’t it?"Resent those still alive." "Envy the living." Those 2 factors disappear if everyone on Spira is dead. Of course killing everyone on the Planet is a feat only Sin could do which is why Seymour wants Yuna to take him with her on the Pilgrimage
>>738467426Yeah, post becoming a primal you kind of lose all motives.>>738467879I kind of remember him seeing through the plot of those ghost guys now that you mention it.In a way the ghost guys are the real villains and they want humanity eternally squabbling with each other. I don't really remember what they wanted beyond that.>>738467963perserving his life forever through time shenanigans makes sense.
>>738469198They don't want humanity eternally squabbling, they want it unified under their vision under a ruler they choose.
>>738469278They infodumped a lot of stuff and I forgot a lot of it, I just remembered them wanting ashe to turn to the dark side or something.
>>738466086
>>738455959Still better than memet-selch
>>738467879>Then hand all authority over to his little brother.I don't remember this at all
>>738465384You went through the entire gay crossdressing segment of FFVII and didn't think that was gay?
>>738469719There's nothing gay about crossdressing
>>738469758What about crossdressing to get pimped out like a cheap whore for looking so feminine?
>Ah, this was my master's plan, a cure to all bioweapons! My master was a genius, he's tricked all of you, and I am happy with his plans!>...>Oh shit I still got to be the final boss>Uhh>HUMANITY IS WEAK, I WANT TO BE THE LEADER TO TAKE THEM INTO A NEW AGE
>>738469468He was very careful that Larsa was properly groomed into becoming emperor. Vayne always knew he would be regarded as a malignant power grabber and a tyrant, no matter how noble his intentions. He was going to go through with all his reforms and then leave the stage, trusting Larsa to be the good king beloved by the people.In the end, all the player characters do is head him off in the final phase of his plan, after he's done everything he needs, but before he can smash the armies of Rozarria. He's mostly fine with the results.
>>738455291Ok, contest his logic? He's 100% right.
>>738467862>Prince of the evil expansionist empire who doesn't care about anything besides the thrill of mortal combat. Very boring and flat dude, to be honest, even when the game does its best to play him up as a dark foil of the player character.While I hated him throughout Stormblood, I loved that Endwalker managed to ply his egocentric nihilism into a valid answer to the despair of the universe."Don't care, good fight."
>>738469403Okay so forgive me but my memory of FF12 is like a year and a half old and so a bit foggy The Occuria are immortal spirits that live in Giruvegan. They consider themselves the gods of Ivalice. Are they actually gods? Who knows. The bestow authority of lordship over Ivalice via the Diefacted Nethicite; basically rocks that passively absorb Mist, which itself is the radiation that allows for magic. Absorb and release too much Mist all at once and it creates the force of a nuclear bomb. So yeah, you can definitely take over a continent with these things. The last person to have been gifted these was the Dynast-King Raithwall, which is why you go digging through his grave trying to take his shit.How does this relate to FF12's plot? Well the neighboring Empire has found a way to manufacture Nethicite. In a factory. And the Occuria have promised Ashe that they will gift her brand new Diefacted Nethicite straight from the source AND will make her the next true Dynast-Queen. And all she has to do is nuke the Empire. Turn that nation into a parking lot. I mean Ashe wants revenge for her own nation being conquered right? But can Ashe rationalize killing thousands, possibly millions, of people in the name of revenge? Even with the say so of the gods?
>90% of the thread is FFXIV troons whining about their shit gameFUCK OFF BACK TO YOUR GENERAL YA NIGGAS.I KNOW ITS FILLED WITH DIAPERFAGS AND TRANNIES AND PEDOPHILES BUT THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR PLAYING THAT DOGSHIT "MMO"
>>738457478Kuja is not really similar to Kefka. Kuja didn't want to destroy existence at first but rule over everything. Only when he learned that he is going to die did he think "fuck that, if I die, the entire world comes with me, it's only fair". And when Zidane's group fought Necron, Kuja all of a sudden had a change of heart. Nothing would've ever been able to change Kefka. Kefka is: "Existence and life is pointless, no matter what." Kuja is: "Existence and life is pointless... if I am not part of it!" One is absolute, destructive nihilism, the other is pure narcissism. Sephiroth and Jenova don't want to destroy all life on the planet because "they are harmful". Jenova herself is a parasite that sucks up a planets life energy and travels to the next, she doesn't care about a planets wellbeing. Sephiroth wanted to harm the planet to the point it would summon massive energy, that he could absorb, in order to become a god himself. Bereft of it's healing energy, the planet would then die to its injury. No "saving the planet"-bullshit on sephiroths part either.
>>738470542I mean you can't say it doesn't have a plethora of retarded villains especially in contrast to it's big brother.
>>738468690That has more to do with Square’s insistence to ram XII into a single timeline with FFT, I’d say. According to Ultimania, the gods had effectively helped with nothing while they were in power. It also doesn’t fit with the whole muh freedom theme that the game keeps beating us over the head with.
>>738456038Kind of, but he's supposed to mirror Yuna in a way. He was casted aside for being mixed-race scum. Yuna was accepted despite being part Al-Bhed.Both become Summoners, though in Seymour's case it's so he can save the world and people to accept him for the time, for Yuna it's to follow Braska's steps and bring an end to Sin. Seymour kind of fucks up on his way, and his mom becomes a fayth beforehand just to serve as his protector. Then, he goes back to Guado as an adult and his father keeps him in distance.I don't think it's that convoluted especially when we have worse examples. His upbringing made him nihilistic.
>>738470542I like final fantasy 14 !
>>738455291People miss his point and forget that death works differently in that world. People can still come back after death and chill.
>>738470375I hated him in SB too but if you asked me if I had a smile on my face when he did his wham bam crash at the end, wellThat I cannot deny
>>738472191No, Seymour's retarded scenario makes death seem light but it isn't. They turn into fiends. Seymour somehow becoming a fiend 3 times with no drawbacks was probably just a gameplay-choice
>>738469468Aside from this being obvious from the background dialogues and contextual clues, there are multiple conversations where the game effectively tells you that is the case, like the part where Gramis asks Vayne if he’s willing to dirty his hands to keep Larsa clean. Or to quote the Scenario Ultimania:>“Larsa is as he should be.”>(The Imperial Palace of Archades; reacting to Cid’s remark about Larsa’s sweet nature)>Vayne does not deny that his only younger brother is sweet and somewhat naïve. He knows that his people need both – his ruthless strength and Larsa's gentle rule. And so Vayne continues to dirty his hands, to spare his brother from the same fate. Larsa’s profile:>Larsa Ferrinas Solidor >An untainted imperial prince, living in the world of ideals >A brilliant child and the fourth son of Emperor Gramis, he is second in line for the imperial throne after his brother Vayne. As a man of House Solidor, he has received thorough education on what it means to rule and stand above the people. Although he has been shaped to be a good emperor, his lack of real world experience means there is danger that he may not see the difference between ideals and reality. Pure and holding peace in high regard, he trusts people implicitly.
>>738469758This.
>>738472979>Seymour somehow becoming a fiend 3 times with no drawbacks was probably just a gameplay-choiceHe's doing the same thing Yu Yevon is doing>Rikku: Wait, gramps! Who’s Yu Yevon?>Mika: He who crafts the souls of the dead into unholy armor. An armor called Sin. Clad in it, Yu Yevon is invincible. And the only thing that could have pierced that armor, you have destroyed! Nothing can stop it now.Seymour likens himself to Zaon to Yuna's Yunalesca but he's not Zaon, Tidus is. Seymour is Yu Yevon, all the way down to his corrupted vision of saving the world.
>>738472979NTA, but we meet multiple Unsent like Yunalesca, Maester Mika, Auron, and Maechen, who seem to experience no drawbacks from being dead.
>>738455291>has a child with the leader of the guado, weird elves nobody likes>nobody appreciates this, child grows up shunned and hated for being a halfbreed>gets an incurable disease and figures it's time to make people love this kid>best idea is to kill Sin>knowing full well that to kill Sin is to die alongside it>drags her 8 year old son all over the world on a potentially fatal pilgrimage that will absolutely end in his death if he succeeds>as a bonus, forces him to kill her to be his Final Aeon so he can kill Sin with his mother and then die himself when she's possessed by Yu Yevon and flattens him>all so people will like and respect himDon't blame Seymour. He had a uniquely terrible upbringing that gave him ridiculously terribles ideas about how anything in the world works. "Just kill everyone so there's no pain" is still better than "kill yourself so people will like you".
>>738472695I was just glad he made the stupid emo bird shut the fuck. Good lord, I hated Endwalker’s whiny nihilism drama so fucking much.
>>738473428Yu Yevon created Sin as vengeance against Bevelle for destroying Zanarkand and as protection against his summoning of Dream Zanarkand ever being interrupted. Over time he degenerated until all he could do was summon the Dream and rebuild Sin.Seymour just wants to become Sin so he can use the brief period when the Final Aeon is in control to kill everyone and everything. Whatever's left of Yu Yevon would object to it simply because it would mean he'd also destroy all the Fayths and end the summon.
>>738467879If I remember correctly, Vayne did wanted to free humanity from the gods, but also crown himself emperor of Ivalice. That was the problem with him. through war and schemes he emulated the gods.
>>738474462That was Cid. Vayne just wanted power as an autocrat and used excuses to make himself sound noble
>>738474094I'm not saying it's 1:1. What I'm saying is that Seymour's vision of him saving the world hand in hand with Yuna is wrong. What's more it's arrogant. The only thing he'll end up doing is destroying what little life Spira has left. The same way Yu Yevon probably just wanted to save his city when in reality he destroyed the world.
>>738473893Still liked it better than Papa's Peas though on balance you probably did too
>>738474596His desire to improve Ivalice and save his brother was genuine by all accounts, to the point he dedicated his whole life to it.
>>738459895Sephiroth was conceived as a ploy to get access to the promised land of the ancients - by infusing the foetus with Ancient DNA, as he matured his genetic impetus would naturally lead him to this.Instead he was accidentally injected with the DNA of a planet eating monster (the ONE thing we didn't want to happen) and thus his genetic impetus naturally lead him to that.This leads to the central theme of FFVII - You can't fight nature.
>>738455291Seymour started out kind of cool and then turned into the ultimate edgelord. By the end of the game his character was basically a running joke.
>>738474596>>738474462Well it's both. When fighting Judge Bergan on Bur-Omisace he says>NO. NO, THE POWER OF MANUFACTED NETHICITE IS THE POWER OF MAN! A WEAPON FORGED BY HIS WISDOM...WHO WOULD CHALLENGE THE GODS THEMSELVES! A FITTING BLOOD FOR A TRUE DYNAST-KING. RAITHWALL DID BUT PRETEND THE TITLE... A CUR BEGGING NETHICITE SCRAPS FROM HIS MASTER'S TABLE. HARK! IVALICE HAILS HER TRUE DYNAST-KING, VAYNE SOLIDOR! HE SHALL DEFY THE WILL OF THE GODS, AND SEE THE VEINS OF HISTORY BACK IN THE HANDS OF MAN! HIS TIME IS NIGH! THE NEW IVALICE HOLDS NO PLACE FOR THE NAME DALMASCA. THE STAIN OF RAITHWALL'S BLOOD... SHALL BE WASHED CLEAN FROM HISTORY'S WEAVE!And Vayne does echo this idea. A true Dynast-King isn't a slave to the gods but rather his own man. Who reins history by his own strength. Yes he takes guidance from Venat and Cid but only so much as they give him the means the conquer Ivalice on his own. And when he falls Venat assures him that his defeat doesn't mean his loss. Ashe defied the Occuria too and therefore history still rests in man's hands.
>>738459895He was taught wrong, as a joke, and then Cloud killed him, his corpse snorted gasoline where he would know the actual truth and still did everything wrong, as a joke. Remember, it was all Sephiroth's doing AKA, dogshit writing, FF7 makes way more sense if Jenova was behind all events leading to the reunion while Sephiroth was actually just dead until Black Materia brought him back
>>738475216That's quite the clerical error
>>738467571>We were literally going to get spared because without discovering the mass relays we likely wouldn't qualify as sufficiently evolved for reapers to harvest usYou retard. Humanity never invented AI. However, in between the time of the Quarians making the Geth and the reapers arriving, humanity hit FTL and so we're lumped in even though we literally dindu nuffin.I would say punishing trillions of sentient lifeforms because one group of space gypsies fucked up is pretty retarded.
>>738473428I can't see Yuna having the same crashout Yunalesca did if she failed to beat Sin, but I guess it wasn't just sacrificing her lover for nothing and seeing her dad turn into a soul tick and warp Zaon into a flesh puppet that corrupted Yunalesca, but becoming an Unsent. That tends to rot your personality and intentions.
>>738455291>I infected the president's daughter with a mind-controlling parasite, and will use her to control the USA once she returns! Which is why I will do everything in my power to make sure you do not rescue her!What exactly was his plan here?
>>738475478Well you have to remember that the entirety of the Jenova Project was built on Dr. Gast just assuming that the body he found in the Northern Crater was an Ancient. Then he told Shinra it was an Ancient. Leading to Sephiroth's creation being founded on the false assumption that Jenova was an Ancient. It wasn't until Dr.Gast spoke with Ifalna, an actual Ancient, when he realized "OH FUCK! I just revived the alien that nearly destroyed the world that also can't die!">Ifalna>I'm all right... When the Cetra... were preparing to part with the land they loved...>That's when it appeared!>It looked like... our... our dead mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us spectres of their past.>Gast>Who is the person that appeared at the North Cave? I haven't any idea.>Ifalna>That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis from the sky', as we call him, came.>[She buries her face in her hands.]>He first approached as a friend, deceived them, and finally...... gave them the virus.>The Cetra were attacked by the virus and went mad... transforming into monsters.>[She drops to her knees.]>Then, just as he had at the Knowlespole.>He approached other Cetra clans...... infecting them with... the virus...
>>738475879Be nice, his brain is full of spidersReal answer is probably because the infection hadn't actually taken yet and he wanted to keep Leon from doing exactly what ended up happening
>>738473768Yeah Seymour has a horrible mom, I guess the idea is that you're supposed to recognize that the sacrifice and death obsessed culture of Spira warped what should've been a mother's love into some really fucked traumatizing child abuse shit. If she had just been normal Seymour probably would've grown up fine even with her dead and his dad an asshole.
>>738475879Not even just that. Saddler had Leon infected and then spends the entire game trying to kill him. Does Saddler think Ashley wouldn't be subjected to a physical after her return from a kidnapping? Which would reveal a wriggling parasite in her spine?
>>738469407Can't polish a turd
>>738475408>autocrats with destructive power are bad but I'm one of the good ones, just give me absolute political power and the destructive power to annihilate all my enemies and those who would stand up to me, you can trust me I'm totally going to make the world awesome just trust me and give me powerMissing the point of FFXII entirely.
>>738475879He needed to wait until the infection took hold. The only real problem with his plan was what if some of the less...rational Plagas killed Ashley by accident.
>>738476126I'm not saying he was right. Just that's what Vayne's thinking was. There's a reason Ashe who destroyed the Nethicite is the hero whole Vayne who tried to monopolize it is the villain
>>738464913But those are the best villains in the franchise
>>738458940Seymour looks fineThe real crimes were Tidus and Yuna's faces
>>738464913>Grandson of the most powerful ancient mage>Also experimented upon by that same ancient mageZenos is the ultimate filter. Low T faggots cannot relate to getting bored by your own superiority
>>738460584God Sw/Sh is such an embarrassment when it comes to bad guys. Team Yell is nothing but a bunch of hooligans and Rose had no fucking reason to do that.
>>738476590>Chairman Rose literally owns this tournament>Could cancel it if he thinks this problem can't wait>would rather end the world instead>has a division of scientists who do nothing but figure out this type of shit>would rather force Micheal Jordan to solve global energy disparity>Micheal Jordan doesn't even say no, just to wait until tomorrow>would rather end the world insteadConvince me Chairman Rose was written by an actual human being
>>738455291>"Ahem.... FUCK MAMMALS!"Anons, was he right?
>>738466839But he did nuke the team flare base in the game
>>738476792>Discover the solution to the power crisis, securing the future of mankind >Nah bro, that shit is cool but we got to do sports championship, can you put it off?It wasn't a decision based on reason, it was the principal
>>738476792>>738460584Stop playing after gen7Can you give me a rundown of this plan? Is he actually dumber than Lysandre?
>>738476993Well there wasn't a plan. In Galar there's a legend about "the Darkest Day" where an alien, Eternatus, crash landed and unleashed a massive amount of energy that created storms and caused pokemon to go crazy. Rayquaza was on sabbatical I guess so Zacian and Zamenzenta had to kill it. Only it wouldn't die, it just cocooned itself in an egg for 3000 years. Chairman Rose found the egg and wanted to find out how to use it to solve a hypothetical energy crisis that's due in, and I'm not exaggerating or bullshitting, 1000 years. The current Champion, Leon, rightfully tells him that this is not a real problem but if it's that important, he'll help figure it out after the Pokemon League is over. But Chairman Rose can't wait that long. No really. A problem that's 1000 years away. He can't wait one night. So he forcibly awakens Eternatus from the egg , forcing you to find the legendary doggos to kill it again.
>>738476792Like fuck man, Leon AGREED to the plan, it just needed to wait. Why couldn't they have that some rouge scientist start the darkest days, or hell, make it that there was a 50% chance of it happening, Rose warns Leon, and Leon writes it off. That way when the 50% fucks them over, both can be in the wrong.>>738476993Nta but>big fuck off energy dragon attacks region centuries ago, gets stopped two big dogs>centuries pass, energy from dragon is still around, providing the gimmick for this gen>Rose makes bank off energy, but uh oh, it will run out... in about 1000 years>Rose asks Leon (strongest trainer in the region) to assist him in bringing back the dragon so they can get more energy>Leon says he will AFTER he has his Championship Match with (You)>RIGHT BEFORE THE MATCH, Rose hijacks the broadcast to say "lol, doing it anyway">Leon runs off to fight the dragon, you get stuck dealing with Rose>after everything is settled, Rose realize how stupid it all was and turns himself in
>>738455291He isn't that retarded if you really stop to think about it>mother is literally turned in to an eternally agonized monster>he gets friendzoned>immediately wants to end it all for everyone
>>738455959I like that his army immediately gets bodied by a dragon with a vision impediment as soon as they try.
>>738455291
>>738455291Honestly the weakest link to SH3.
>>738476956It's a stupid principal and he's a fool. If it's really that important then cancel the fucking tournament. He's the chairman. He can do that.
>>738476882Anon, we as humans count as mammals, too.Pic unrel btw.
>>738477570>>738477519Rose needed Leon to be champion for his plan to work, because the person who captured Eternatus needed to be someone with loyalty to Galar and a local hero.He didn't way a day because he couldn't. If Leon lost, that would be the last day his plan could ever be executed.
>>738456554Nah, it’s retarded. Reapers literally justify their existence with >oi m8s, wot if, wot if organics made synthetics loike us, that kill organics en masse >oi m8 thas crazy innit, we should kill all organics
>>738477994Not just that, Rose wanted someone he could control. He had control over Leon, but couldn't control you.Also Leon is the one who says the energy crises is in 1000 years. I could be much sooner, Rose would know best.Rose plan and motivations make perfect sense but pokemon fans are too retarded to get any plot that isn't thrown at their face and completely spelled out.
>>738457478>>738459895>>738461169>>738462910Sephiroth didn't want to destroy the world but create a new one, something Exdeath and Kefka didn't want to do
>>738462910>I don't know what Garland's motive was.He did it his way
>>738475985>>738476169If I'm the president (or even just a normal father) and my daughter just got rescued from being kidnapped, the first thing I'm doing is getting her immediate medical attention. You don't think they're going to detect a giant-ass parasite on her spine?
>>738455291In a world with a confirmed afterlife, he's not exactly wrong, once everyone is dead they can just chill in the Farplane.
>>738457091>Doesn't even get a single reply anymoreRemember when Zero Escape was popular here to get multiple threads? Then this game happened
>>738461660Sephiroth is pathetic and I love that.
>>738467936What are the odds that remake part 3 turns that into a full fledged boss battle like Crisis Core did with Zack vs Sephiroth
>>738463586That was great. I love how Anthropos identified the sabotage but went along with it anyway because it proved Adam's humanity.In my opinion there's two types of retarded villains: ones who believably reflect real human failings, and ones that are just badly written nonsense.
>>738478219>Also Leon is the one who says the energy crises is in 1000 yearsAnon...https://youtu.be/U2mHpnKKvv8?si=sJ4jP07mcQnWt4o8&t=68932The two are clearly talking as if Rose was the one that brought forth the information in all their talks, which makes sense since it was HIS team that did all the studies.And I'm quoting Rose here >"And know that the energy required to keep this brilliant, glittering world alive will be exhausted a millennium from now!" "The people of Galar today will no longer exist. What Galar wants today hardly matters!"Even HE knows that it doesn't need to be done RIGHT NOW, he's just being paranoid.
>>738475216WHen you put it that way, it's kinda funny. Everything happened because of a colossal fuck up.
>>738477994>>738478219Good headcanon
>>738478102The Reaper logic is exactly what you would expect from AI. >get a “solve the extinction of organic life via synthetics” prompt>hmm, all organic civilisations tend to build super powerful synthetic life that eventually turns against them and destroys them>I know, how about we end the civilisations every time they’re about to build those super powerful synthetics, therefore enabling some of their survivors to survive and flourish again Under this arrangement, the clankers were guaranteed to never cross the total extinction barrier, fulfilling the original prompt. It’s a simple, reliable solution that a machine would like, because it evaluates only a narrow set of criteria that make sense to that machine.
>>738478658What's funny is that we see a similar story play out with Cloud>Sephiroth>...I've always felt since I was small...>That I was different from the others. Special, in some way.>But... not like this...__________>Young Cloud>Tifa always used to be with this three-some.>Tifa>...That's right.>Young Cloud>I used to think... they were all stupid.>Tifa>What!?>Young Cloud>You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing.>Tifa>But we were children, back then.>Young Cloud>...I know. I'm the one that was stupid.>I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group.>Then later... I began to think I was different...>That I was different from those immature kids.>That then... maybe...>Just maybe, they would invite me in.>I thought that might happen, so I hung around...>Young Cloud>I was so prejudiced. And... weak.Cloud was able to accept his own weaknesses. He wanted to be special, realized he wasn't, coped with that and resolved to just do the best he could. Which ended up making him the badass he always wanted to be. Cloud gets to be a hero while Sephiroth gets to be this weird spectrum of Oedipus and homoeroticism
>>738455959He doesn't even register in my memory of dawntrail as anything more than a background character despite being a bad guy.>Zoraal ja>Sareel ja>Zeraal JaGod I hate lizards so fucking much
>>738478364In the same setting where Racoon City got not-nuked and Terra Gregia happened? Yes. But 90% of the games pretend like they're living in the same world as us and the average Joe wouldn't immediately recognize a zombie or BOW in a world where bioterrorism is as common as cyberterrorism in ours.
>>738469447No, you dumbass retard.
>>738462803Useless little shit robbed krile of the one bit of agency she could have had in the story.
>>738479238Sephy was special from birth though, to his own detriment. Although he willingly plunged into evil it's not clear that even if he resisted as much as he could he wouldn't have gotten repo'd by Jenova and ended up in basically the same place.
>>738458854>>738464913>>738466984>>738467862Zenos is basically a nihilistic Broly.He's a science experiment baby born with ultimate power, everything comes to him absolutely effortlessly and nobody can equal him in battle.Man's basically locked into Easy mode difficulty, there is no challenge in life so it drives him fucking nuts and bored into depression. The main character is the only one able to tickle his bollocks so he's desperate for that shit.
>>738469198Why did the Occuria take interest in Vaan? I know the whole "possible" candidate thing for their plans since he wanted revenge, but what the fuck could Vaan do? He had no power, no connections, nothing.
>>738476993Rose is a victim of bad writing. It HAD to happen right there because there was an audience. He's supposed to be a parallel to the player character except he didn't win, he got second place when he tried becoming a Champion. Rose wanted to be cheered on by an audience with the spotlight on him, the thing he failed at.The only thing besides flavor text, that outright states this, that demonstrates this is the actual battle against him as he starts melancholic only to be fired up towards the end
>>738479812Honestly, who knows? Maybe he was impressionable enough that the Occuria could reasonably puppeteer his naivete into something befitting their purposes and not have him question it. Maybe it would be like Disney's Aladdin and they wanted to have a backup in a diamond in the rough.The cynical answer is they wanted the mandated blonde teen orphan have an active tie to the story and actual main characters beyond the point where his plot relevance dies off.
>>738463957It's kind of incredible how many layers of dysfunctional her writing is, you could have a field day with any of them. What really stands out to me is how her taking the mole people's info about the church at face value almost works.If the story was made in such a way that Edelgard was just desperate deep down to blame anyone, anything, for her suffering, and settled on the church and crests because it was easy, it would've been fine. Turn her into somebody who made herself believe she had grand ideals, but in reality, was just a hurt child who couldn't accept there being a symbol of good in the world. Such a thing existing yet being blind to her pain would be too cruel to bear, so she hates it, and the Crests that embody it, with even more fervor than the group who actually destroyed her life.Suddenly, doing dumb shit like a seven year war against the whole continent, not trying to know Rhea despite being in prime position to do so, and actively strengthening the mole people's hold on Fodlan, would make sense. Edelgard would be pathetic in this scenario and lose her cool factor the more you learned, but in a way where you pity her.But, no. She's presented as a competent, grey, "ends justify the means" character, even though both the ends and the means are completely fucking retarded.
>>738478410AND he's proven you can 'exist' pretty well as a ghost in the regular world, if you're determined/lucky enough.
>>738466149>the twist I made up in my fanfiction
>>738456554THIS GUY'S A REAPER GET HIM SHEPHERD
>>738477884Togashi makes really good villains.
>>738481334O MY RUBBER NEN
>>738478876I just liked how everyone in Eden was nutsLetheia was screaming out in the void for aliens because he thought their mission was impossible at the same time he observed evidence that the Dark Forest theory was true and any aliens that showed up probably would have killed everyone
>>738479812Backup in case Ashe failed.Anyone with deifacted nethicite has a bargaining chip the size of a country. They likely expected he'd take it to Rozarria to assist in the destruction of Archades.
>>738455959I'm glad this stupid retarded nigger was so early in the thread.I fucking hate dawntrail so fucking much>gulool ja ja was incredible he united the lands ended slavery made an equal society and now he must pass the throne>except spend time with his children I guess. He never did that shit and never had any relation with them which is why they're all in their own way extremely different from him. His only biological child is a bundle of daddy issues
>>738479290Remember it's revealed in the first five minutes of Dawntrail that lizards all speak fluent Eorzean and it's a little race-wide joke to speak in broken languages when they're abroad working as mercsThanks, Kate. Very cool.
>>738459895Jenova was like The Thing and wanted to use the planet to travel around spreading itself everywhere. Sephiroth was just a powerful vessel that got infected so it used him as it's primary agent in the field.
>>738479501Tranny quadroon zenos lol
>>738455291>Villain is bad because they are trying to cover up something really bad that they did
>>738467963>>738462910Exdeath is more of a thematical villain. He's evil for evil's sake but the game has a running theme of humans harming nature, hence an evil tree is harming them back.
>>738455291I never got why people thought he was poorly written. He feels like one of those weird eastern deities that were warnings about the dangers of ritualistic suicides and whatnot, and also with how he was both ostracized for being a not-human and having witnessed the death of his mother at a young age, along with how Sin destroys most shit every few years. It isn't far-fetched to see him eventually believing that everyone becoming spirits as some sort of salvation.Is not that I think his point is agreeable, but I can see someone ending up thinking that way in that type of setting.
>>738455291if i can't have sex, then no one should. push red
>>738455291Same deal>can you show me how to kms, bro? I'll do it after, promise>sure manHow the fuck had this man not been talked into casual suicide sooner? What a retarded character
>>738455959His woman is just as bad. If I remember correctly she was some psycho random woman who was obsess with Zoraal and completely neglects her kid.
>>738482795>Shitting on an honest man who assists someone suicidal in need of guidanceAnon....
>>738462910>I didn't play FF15 much beyond fishing and chilling with the boysJohn the Baptist wanted revenge on Jesus who was also his great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandnephew.
>>738462910>I didn't play FF15 much beyond fishing and chilling with the boysArdyn wanted to help humanity but he did it in a way that wasn't sanctioned by the gods so he's taking revenge on the bloodline they blessed to spite him
>>738466652>um actually after he was stabbed and killed, a regular human completely dominated an ancient planet eater and took full control over it.>also he just happens to want everything that it wantsRight. Cool. Cool.
>What if we decided to write Richard again yet much much shittier
>>738482303It's been a long time since I've played XI, but is it the fact she let her husbando did an illegal summoning Fenrir on purpose and ended up getting him killed?
>>738467371He had no choice when it came to invading the USSR, who was already gathering massive armies along their borders in preparation for an invasion of Europe. He essentially caught the Russians with their pants down thanks to that, which is why the initial casualties were so comically, ridiculously high.
>>738483865Didn't just try summoning he went further, tried enslaving Fenrir, it failed badly, doomed Windurst while nobody else knew what happened. Karaha-Baruha and Fenrir got their souls fucked with hard and mixed up. Most of Karaha-Baruha was stuck in the zombie onion, Fenrir is a mana sphere that became the Cardian, Joker
>>738462910>I need to make a contract with demons to become immortal>But Jesus made it impossible for demons to walk the earth>I need a time machine that'll send me back to before Jesus making immortality impossible>I wonder what the demons will want in exchange, surely it won't involve destroying the world
>>738463957She’s actually well written, the fanbase is just retarded. She’s a villain
>I want to stop the endless cycle of sacrifices to nature to keep the planet going and thus end up turning the world to sand>gives his nephew the White Chronicle that lets him travel back in time>said nephew undone all the shit the villain did due to said time travel>villain acts surprise when his nephew stops his plans even though if he had not given his nephew the White Chronicle the world would have turned into sand like he wanted in the first place
>>738462803>we're never going to see him grow upfuck this stupid time bubble bullshit
>>738484108>muh IcebreakerStalin was willing to prolong the Treaty, Hitler wasn't. Also Germans and their allies had numerical superiority during Barbarossa, so much for "massive armies".
>>738484206Didn't that get recon with Wings of the Goddess expansion?
>>738484448>Stalin was willing to prolong the Treaty, Hitler wasn't.Both of them broke every single treaty they've ever signed.>Also Germans and their allies had numerical superiority during Barbarossa, so much for "massive armies".Absolute nonsense. The only superiority they had was in FRONTLINE manpower because, as I've said, the USSR were in the middle of preparing for an invasion themselves. In every other way the Russians were crushing Germany, like having around 11,000 tanks compared to the Axis's 3,000.
>>738455291Akechi from persona 5 is genuinely retarded>I hate my dad so much so I’m going to enact this long term scheme of fulfilling my dad’s every wishes which include putting him into a position of power so great that now I will never be able to touch himHis “revenge” is literally “let me help him so much I can’t actually get revenge”.
>I am going to disturb the world ending threat sealing inside a gem>Then I am going to disturb the world ending threat sealing in a military prison>Then I am going to build a robot with a very sentient AI that breaks free and becomes a world ending threat and tries to kill me>Then I am going to team up with my parallel universe version to steal the mcguffin from the parallel universe and then threaten my universe's existence in a world ending event.>Then I am going to disturb the world ending threat sealed inside the planet's core>Then I am going to disturb the world ending threat that has been asleep in space for 10,000 years>Once I manage to control all that power somehow I will build a theme parkSatAM/Archie/AosTH/Movie Robotniks are better than that retard
>>738484706>Both of them broke every single treaty they've ever signedStalin made good on every promise he made to the Allies, including things like throwing Greek commies under the bus.>the USSR were in the middle of preparing for an invasion themselvesThe rearmament of the Red Army wasn't even supposed to be finished until 43.> like having around 11,000 tanks compared to the Axis's 3,000Here's where we ignore 10 thousand of those 11 thousand were T-26s. What's next, you're gonna count all the biplanes in the Soviet airforce?
>>738484472No, WotG is an alternate timeline. Specifically that Karaha-Baruha gets summoned through time itself to finish summoning Fenrir which they initially fail at
>>738484808He was probably supposed to BTFO Shido and be the final boss at some point (well, not probably, there're leftover files for an Akechi palace). It makes no sense he doesn't. In fact with him gone how would Shido even continue using the metaverse to fuck with US and other countries like he said he was going to?
Fucking Van from tales of the abyss> We all live according to fate, so if i kill every single person and make a new race of clones then humanity will not be shackle by fate and we can be free.
>>738484943>The rearmament of the Red Army wasn't even supposed to be finished until 43.And Germany's until 44, which didn't stop them from invading Poland. Literally every single European power was in the middle of a rearmament process.>Here's where we ignore 10 thousand of those 11 thousand were T-26s.The Soviets had around 1200 T-34s on their Western front along with around 600 KVs, both of which wiped the floor with whatever Germany had at the time. That's almost half of the total of Germany's tanks, by the way, most of which were old models (half of the entirety of Germany's tank numbers were old Czechoslovakian light tanks or PzKpfw I or II).>>738484943>Stalin made good on every promise he made to the AlliesComplete nonsense, but per a commie you're just lying through your teeth.
>>738455291It's hilarious that this turned into a tranny fantasy thread. Sad!
>>738466984Shadowlord from 11 was a big galka man who cucked a human that made him have a tard chud rage killing hin which then odin reborn him as essentially a dq bad guy controlling all the monster armys so he can create something something chaos for the balance of the world but in 11 beastmen are like the flip side of the enlighten races just more from the dark god Than the light God but every race takes from both or something idk it's been 20 years
>>738455291If you die you just become an immortal spirit. He was right.
>>738485043Oh that's right. Everything still fell into place just some things kind of got changed.I still remember this scene from long ago and it made me so hype.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei1VqqI88Dk&list=PLA19B75C8629C3D02&index=31
>>738485478Shadowlord's origin got retconned slightly in CoP, Prishe's Magicite is responsible for creating it as well as manipulating Ulrich into killing Raogrimm
>>738457091dogshit finale
>>738484385I'm only speculating, but I'm guessing that Heiss genuinely never knew how the Black and White Chronicles were different from each other in terms of what experiences they allow the bearers to curate and what lessons you're supposed to derive from them. Heiss learned the wrong lessons from his time with the Black Chronicle and became cynical, save for when it came to Stocke. Whereas Stocke learned the correct lessons with his time with the White Chronicle.I think Heiss was banking on the idea that it didn't matter which book he gave Stocke, just that Stocke came to the same conclusions that he did. And he could hasten the desertification alongside someone helping him using the other book.But I do agree, Heiss should've just kept both and played the longer game.
>If I can't be anything then everyone can die!
>>738462910>what Garland's motive wasIn ff1 itself he was basically abusing a infinite survival power up timeloop even unbeknownst to his "past" self to become theoretically infinitely powerful, so he doesn't die.And then we have strangers paradise... recontextualizes that the time loop was a long existing thing set up by a outside civilization to harvest energy from that world and garland and his gang are basically overseers from said civilization to make sure everything runs smoothly, but after getting attached to the people stuck in the time loop they plot to break it by redirecting the energy that was being harvest into garland making him into a super weapon scary/powerful enough to cause the people running the time loop to cut their losses and abandon the world, and then ff1 takes places as the last part of the plan to actually stop the now unattended time loop and put Jack down cause being a uncontrollable WMD that's sucking all of it's aether is kinda not healthy for the world now that it's purpose has been fufilled, also jack did 90% of this memory wiped and not knowing he was literally turning himself into chaos
>>738487794>I want to be a soldier, not an artist>Fuck you bitch you're worthless and will never be like your soldier sister>Your dream is retarded and you're incompetent, be an artist instead>Wow your art is so great, I'm going to stop you from being a soldier so you're an artist insteadI mean, she IS retarded, but it is understandable that she'd have issues.
>>738455291But he was right.If you die in spira you get to live on as an immortal physical ghost. The only reason ghosts turned into fiends was jealously of the living so if everyone was dead there would be nothing to be jealous of.So if everyone is dead sin can't hurt anyone anymore everyone can just enjoy blitzball and the tropical paradise in peace.Seymour was right.
>>738455291he's right thoughhe's literally dead (not living)
>>738487956The most based protganist of our time.
>>738487956a shame you posted all of this despite nojima's(?) noncanon contribution to FF1 lol
>>738465308What fucking bro code? His "bro" was upset that he couldnt win and decided to ruin Oersted's life in the process.
>>738455420
>>738478253His plan was to merge with the planet and become a god, his motive was that the planet belonged to him through his crazy mix of Shinra conditioning, Jenova conditioning and his own special brand of autism.
>>738468601He was right to torture Streibough and the princess, trying to ruin all of time for everyone else though was just too much.
>>738488020The thing is the ONLY ONE pushing her to be a soldier was her mother. Everyone else just wanted her to do what makes her happy aka being an artist
>>738488810Being an artist didn't make her happy though, she wanted to be a soldier. It's just what she was good at, not what she wanted to be. Everyone else was insistently pushing her to do what she only wanted as a hobby while trying to block her from living the life she actually desired. They were pretty much ignoring her feelings to try and pigeonhole her, which is why I think it's valid to hate them for it even if what she ended up doing is way too far.
>>738455291>>738456038What would you do if you grew up getting ostracized because of your heritage, your mother sacrifices herself to become a horrible monster slash your eternal guardian, you learn that your entire purpose in life was just to maintain a cycle of death on a massive, global scale instead of putting an end to it, and the only form of entertainment is fucking Blitzball? Not even real Blitzball in the Fayth's Zanarkand, boring blitzball played by fat schlubs that move at the speed of smell. Could you imagine all of that shit only with a gay combination of baseball and soccer as your only form of entertainment?
>People begin to fight each other in times of peace, and band together in times of strife.>I will awaken this ancient world-destroying superweapon monster to ravage the world, forcing people to stop all conflict and cooperate to survive.>Never mind that the superweapon now roaming the world will likely cause far more death and destruction than any war ever could, as long as it's not people killing each other it's not my problem lmao.
>>738455291>wants to stop conflict by making everyone apart of a fishy hive mind so they'll no longer be selfish and always altruistic.>but at the same time knows that losing your individuality and all dreams/ambitions outside of immediate survival sucks>decide the best course of action is to fishify people but blast them with their weird interdimensional energy the strengthens one's sence of self and grants emotional/spiritual strength so the person can accomplish their dreams>protags tell her that selfishness is a requirement for ambitions/dreams and is inherently incompatible with being 100% selfless/altruistic, so all she'd end up doing is upturning people's lifes not actually changing anything because she wants a magic quick fix to society rather than actually working to gradually improve shit>realize she's retarded>cry
>>738456182OP said villain
>>738480102>>738479812The occuria want a puppet to control and the easiest people to control are those that desire power. Who better to control than a person that lost all of their family and is willing to seek revenge by any means?This is why Vaan stops seeing the ghost after a while, because he realizes that revenge is pointless, hollow and taking it out on innocent people isnt going to help anyone.
>Be a science experiment for some evil organization.>Escape from them, be found by a kindly old hillbilly couple.>Proceed to infect them with your mind control mushroom juice, turning them into murderous psychopaths.>Make their family's lives a living hell for the next several years, also having them abduct and kill countless other people.>Be sadistic about the whole thing, clearly taking delight in all the suffering.>Finally get your comeuppance.>"waaaaaaah why does everyone hate me i dindu nuffin"
>>738483763This plot twist was so awful. Then an hour later he gives up his plan
>>738484385What he really wanted above all else was to save his nephew's life. I thought that ending was very emotional
>>738461706Ramirez from Skies of Arcadia
>>738489459Evil-ine was not a real person, but just a disease that could talk.
>>738455959>Spends 30 years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber preparing to kill his siamese twin dad>Finally gets to fight him.>Fucking LOSESand gets killed by his dad, who is severely handicapped by one of the siamese twins actually having been fucking dead this whole time.>Only managed to get away with things in the end because he cheats and has a video game 1-up stapled to his head.bitch ass nigga
>>738488118I'd be jealous of the fiends if I was cursed to play blitzball for the rest of eternity
>Loses a couple fights>Gets so pissed off he goes full yandere on the protag>Refuses to lose a war that was already lost>Restarts a cataclysmic event>Loses again>Decides to do that same thing he did to restart the cataclysm but on a much larger scale on a capital city housing millions>Loses one final time
>>738490625He and the Federation were completely in the right until the magma nuke though. The Cascadian independence movement couldn't even get enough support in Cascadia and had to rely on foreign mercenaries like (You). And the end result is Outer Heaven for mercenaries' benefit, not a country for Cascadians just like he thought it would turn out.
>>738470542XIVchads run this board, fella
>>738455291to be fair he lives in a world you can literally just live as a ghost if your reason for living is strong enough and nobody can even tell. Also you can literally visit the afterlife like you're taking a trip to Disneyland and it looks like a pretty nice place.
>>738489459She's not even a girl anymore, just a sentient mold mushroom wearing a skin suit and deceptively using words to manipulate humans
>When you go on a genocidal rampage because you're illiterate.
Exdeath isn't a person, he is a tree that harnessed the demonic power of the souls sealed in him to turn humanoid and become a wizard.From his point of view, humans are literally roaches just like you'd instinctively stomp on one. You can't understand him because he isn't human, he doesn't think like one, he is just a vegetable that's tired of all this shit and spent an eternity on the moon writing philosophy over the pointlessness of existence to justify his boredom.
>>738493064He's more just evil because he was made to house evil spirits. Somehow, nobody foresaw that putting all the evil spirits in one place could ever be a bad idea. He doesn't have a reason to be evil, evil is his nature because he's stuffed to the gills with it.
>>738493064I've not known many inscrutable trees to have the catch-phrase MWA-HAHAHAHA!
>>738462320The enclave did nothing wrong, the writers desperately try to make them evil but it only backfires.
did the reapers even have a real endgame other than make more reapers?
>>738495520No. That WAS the long-term solution. Repeatedly archive all advanced races into everlasting mechanical mausoleums whenever they advance far enough to compromise themselves. Life continues, but only so long as they stay primitive.It's consistent, but it's still very, very stupid. It's only justified by the fact that AI is allowed to be stupid: it was given an absolute priority and has no qualms with fulfilling that priority in the most barbarous and haphazard manner so long as it is fulfilled, even from a privileged perspective.
ENTER The indisputable GOAT of retardation
>>738467672This is the most reasonable interpretation all things considered. His will probably is in control, but not because he's some super special boy more, rather because that's how Jenova's abilities manifest and how it integrates the minds of the beings it uses into itself, as demonstrated by what it did with the Cetra.>>738483684Your points are basically hardly reasonable because of >>738483684 and >>738475412The only solid evidence in your favor is Hojo's comments, but that does nothing to show that Sephiroth's motivations weren't bent and corrupted in the first place, which there is virtually every evidence for. Sephiroth just being so clever he managed to overcome Jenova, despite all the evidence that he was a flawed human being manipulated, is just inferior storytelling in every way. It's worse in terms of plot, coherence, character development, theming etc. and ought to be true from an aesthetic viewpoint regardless.
>>738483684>>738496342Jenova doesn't want what Sephiroth wants. Jenova wants to infest the biosphere, Sephiroth wants to become God and rule over the planet.If Sephiroth had any adoption of Jenova's desires, why doesn't Sephiroth infect a single person with Jenova virus over the entire story of FFVII?You niggers watched Advent Children and took the insane mumbling of a degraded Sephiroth as his motivation in the original game, didn't you?
>>738496920>>738496342What about the 'Reunion' thing?
Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, and Parasite Eve all had the basically the same plot.
>>738496991Reunion is an automated process. Jenova's actual behavior is that it spreads itself around, infects the local populace, then Reunites into a greater Jenova amalgam to stalk off to the next hunting grounds.People keep parroting this idea that Sephiroth's and Jenova's goals align in any way. The fact of the matter is that Jenova doesn't have any real goals beyond mass proliferation. It IS the virus. It wants to eat people. It's like a wolf. It doesn't have higher thoughts or long term planning.Sephiroth took advantage of the Reunion process solely to give himself more Jenova biomatter to wield as a transforming tool to further his plans.
>>738456397>>738456978I never played 2 cause Caligula Effect 1 was the single most pretentious and condescendingly preachy video games I've ever played.
>>738457029
>>738497182It's canon, faggot.Oh wait, you can't read japanese, and you can barely read english either.Certainly better than the fanfiction that Sephiroth's goals have ANYTHING to do with Jenova's.
>>738455959Some of the worst writing in the game. The best part is that he is so badly written it makes his family look horrible because you would have to be the most retarded person on earth to not see how obviously mentally unstable this guy was.
>>738497396I will spoonfeed you the translation.>Vicious, extremely aggressive and cunning. Having no thoughts of creating anything following bringing destruction, it only follows its instincts to incite ruin, utilizing its mimic ability to infect other living organisms with its virus.
>>738497614So Jenova can think and plot. Got it.
>>738483181I like the implication that Zoraal Ja didn't know what sex was and accidentally had a kid
>>738497708It has the cleverness of a predator animal, at best. It doesn't think of anything except its next infection.
In the original Japanese version Ultimecia was simply playing up the role of the evil sorceress that others believed she should be. Her depiction in the spin-off games emphasizes this specific portrayal, which is entirely lost on Western audiences due to the localization drastically altering her lines from the original game.To be fair, at the end of the game in the original Japanese version, she does start speaking like a robot and even references ExDeath's iconic dialogue.
>>738497812Uh, no. Lavos is by all rights completely intelligent, it just has the intellect of an alien farmer with no interest in communicating with its cattle. Queen Zeal was the result of the cattle becoming clever enough to ask for special treatment, and it effectively said "alright, this changes nothing". She cost it nothing and gained it nothing.
>>738498027You are media illiterate. Do you think Lavos gave magic to humanity by accident or something? Do you believe that it collects DNA just as a curiosity while it subsists on geothermal energy?
>>738498125What if... le magic is an infection of sorts? Whoa.
>>738497967On this board at least more people are aware that Ultimecia is basically an abused person driven into a corner until she snapped and became the monster in her desperation to be safe and avoid death. That gets brought up in almost every FFVIII thread that talks about the plot.
>>738497967>>738498184Squall is such an asshole.
>>738498179It is, but the similarities stop there. Jenova does not try to guide the biosphere to its ends. The most it does is lure people into alleyways and bite them like a vampire once it gets them alone.>>738498182Correct, he doesn't. He has nothing to say to the cows. Zeal spoke to him, and he gave no real answer at all beyond not annihilating her.
>>738498320Squall's as much a victim of the timeloop as she is, by the time he enters the events in the present, she's already trying to trigger time compression. He doesn't really have much choice but to stop her.
>>738498391Anon, why EXACTLY do you believe Queen Zeal was allowed to stand on Lavos's shoulder while everyone else in the ocean palace got eaten up by time gates? What made her exempt? Do you truly believe that was meaningless random chance?
Should I play FFXII?
>>738473893>I take it this is your prey>Why does it still live?>Surely you are above something as banal as despairPure kino
>>738498495Exactly. You're dead on the money. If Lavos was a mindless beast, it wouldn't even consider that, she'd be tossed into time hell with everyone else.She was not really given notable treatment, she was just permitted her immortality because it was utterly inconsequential to Lavos. The Mammon Machine was treated as a kind of attack upon it, deserving of reprisal; Zeal herself didn't actually matter once it and its makers were dealt with.
>>738498649Unintelligent animals are not capable of discerning people that readily; it is a hallmark of intelligence to have favored individuals. And Lavos determined who had to go and who was assisting its endeavors immediately.Here's my question: why do YOU think Lavos is unintelligent? What part of it makes you believe it isn't following a coherent if alien plan?Is it nothing more than you decided it was so when you were a kid and haven't played it for 25 years?
>>738495872>I'M GOING TO BUILD ROBOT PEOPLE WITH FEELINGS >AND YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY PROGRAM THEM OR DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN GIVE THEM VERBAL INSTRUCTIONS WITHOUT COMPLETELY REWRITING THEIR BRAINS WHICH DOESN'T EVEN WORK LONG TERM BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE GAVE THEM FEELINGS >AND THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THEM DO ANYTHING WE WANT IS THROUGH THREATS OF VIOLENCE AND THE FEAR OF THE AFOREMENTIONED BRAIN WIPE>AND ALL OF THIS IS BEING DONE IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE PERFECTLY LOYAL ROBOTS THAT CAN DO BASICALLY ANYTHING ALREADY EXIST>AND ALL OF THIS WILL REQUIRE THE DEATHS OF THOUSANDS IF NOT MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE OVER THE SPAN OF 60+ YEARS>HOLY FUCKING SHIT, I'M SO FUCKING SMART
>>738455291He's a based retard
>>738498797"Parasite" is a way of life, it speaks absolutely nothing to intelligence level. You can have intelligent parasites and unintelligent ones. Yet I notice you don't have any ground to stand on to answer.Nevermind that Chrono Cross shows us that Lavos has an emotional spectrum quite capable of not only rage, but revenge. And revenge is the most fundamentally intelligent process there is; you have to know who you hate to kill them.But even in Chrono Trigger alone, it shows discretion and preference in a way that beasts do not.
>>738498765You wouldn't understand
>>738496920It's just absurd that Sephiroth starts fully believing that he is a Cetra and that he and his 'mother' are enacting righting vengeance against those who destroyed his race so that it might be restored, only to be completely OK finding out that Jenova was in fact the cause of their destruction in the first place, and then killing Aeris and ensuring that the race is in fact eradicated etc.Like, the one obvious means of reconciliating this is to accept that Jenova is causing the same thing it did to the Cetra to happen with Septhiroth.>>738497074>The fact of the matter is that Jenova doesn't have any real goals beyond mass proliferation. It IS the virus. It wants to eat people. It's like a wolf.And it does this by infecting and subverting populations from the inside. This aligns vastly more with having Septhiroth believe that he "wants to become a God with mother", than it does with him wanting to avenge the genocide of the Cetra, which would awfully less convenient for Jenova's sake.
>>738455959This is a 10/10 story worth paying 10 dollars every month for according to xivsisters, btw.
>>738455291This dude fakes his death to create an organization of terrorists. The powers that be use him as a tool to root out potential defectors within their ranks, so they're all in one neat little place ready to be taken out. Just one problem, he really is a revolutionary and he really does execute a plan to make the world a better place.It involves separating the people from their only source of protection, though. Mankind lives in floating colonies and he takes over the wireless batteries that keep them afloat, meaning they will crash and lots of people will die. Thermidor's reasoning is that we're all slowly dying. Earth is fucked and he's using the batteries to clear a way into space. Plenty die as the colonies fall and yet more from the surface pollution, but they're gifted a hopeful for the future. The actual thing stopping people from entering space is a network of assault satellites set up during a period of corporate warfare. Currently, those same corporations control the planet, so it's a big middle finger to the government from their own top pilot.I think on paper, For Answer's plot is pretty cool but the way it's presented leaves a lot off the table and I heard the localization cut a lot of stuff out. I really want to know what the OG script is like.
>>738499214Literally nobody likes DT retard.
>>738469880Spencer redeemed himself but Victor didn't. Victor saw Elpis and immediately thought of how he could use it for personal gain. It's a cure, yeah, but in a world of bioweapons the guy who can go "nuh uh" wins. Victor wanted to use it for supremacy.
>>738458996They can call a demaster many things.
>>738499332 (me)Also Zeno is right there, I'm not sure why you didn't pick him instead. He's flat out misinformed about 99% of the shit he says.
>>738499126>It's just absurd that Sephiroth starts fully believing that he is a Cetra and that he and his 'mother' are enacting righting vengeance against those who destroyed his race so that it might be restored, only to be completely OK finding out that Jenova was in fact the cause of their destruction in the first place, and then killing Aeris and ensuring that the race is in fact eradicated etc.He spent 5 years learning about everything in the Lifestream from the wisdom of the Ancients. It was not at all sudden, he is a man capable of learning and adapting. He knew he wasn't a Cetra by the time he killed Aerith, he saw no more value in the Cetra or humanity, he saw himself was the only being worthy of taking command of the Planet at that point.Jenova was a useful tool to this end.>And it does this by infecting and subverting populations from the inside. No, it doesn't. It draws out prey, and then attacks them. It doesn't "subvert" anything. It attacks through mimicry, not manipulation. It's an automatic process, devoid of intellect.
>>738475879I love how Separate Ways in the original game gives Saddler the backup plan of "Load a bunch of dudes on one boat, crash it into the US's east coast, and hope for the best" in case the whole kidnapping thing doesn't work out.
>"I resurrected Sigma!">"Why?">"..."
>>738455959I would desu
>>738478747100%it will probably be a boss gauntlet with both Cloud and Zack phases
>>738469880dude just wanted to disrupt the world order and was planning to use the antiviral for that purpose.
>>738500064We can go even further.>look i made a bunch of robots that have sigma's dna in them and can become copies of sigma
>>738500064>Because fuck you tooPerfectly valid reason
>>738498575Yes, though I'd recommend Zodiac Age or at least IZJS, not the vanilla PS2 game.Balthier and Fran are like Han Solo and Chewie except the beast turned into sex incarnate.Basch and Vaan are literally Kenobi and Luke. Penelo is a female C-3PO and Ashe is Leia.Gabranth is Vader and Vayne is the Emperor with the twist of having a shota brother that's like young Anakin from episode 1.
>>738487956It's a shame this game received such a thin budget, if the story was fleshed out and the gameplay tweaked (loot autism and lack of enemy variety) it could have been one of the best games in the series.Jesus Christ man just thinking about FF16 makes me sad. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?
>>738489459the little girl thing is an act the infection uses and just a way to trick people into thinking she doesn't want to turn everything into mold monsters.I'm pretty sure the info in the ship explains this
>>738493064Also Neo-Ex Death seems to be a different entity entirely or at least possessed by the void or some shit.
>>738455959Legit warhammer lizardman reject down to a T, lmao
>>738461108>the most violent white is more peaceful and comprehensible than the least violent blackoid.Hmmm...Also this image is 15 years old. Use that information about your demographics however you want.
>>738501786In Dissidia there's a special skin you unlock that's his "real" form under the armor. It's the Sephiroth-looking guy at the front of the fleshy biomass of a dozen entities. At this point he has cut ties with his existence as the tree and became some sort of humanoid avatar of the void he craved.
>>738456554Literally kill yourself. It's the most retarded ending ever.
>>738463821The only reason the English declared war was to keep Germany down and prevent the balance of power from getting too out of hand. Funny enough this would be the war that effectively ended their empire and the USSR took over half of Europe anyway.
>>738457478>Kuja in 9 is similar to KefkaNot exactly. Kuja wanted to extend his own lifespan as an artificial being. When he learned he couldn't, he decided to just end everything for everyone. Then, in his final moments, he realized how wrong he'd been and that there is purpose to living.
>>738499527>he is a man capable of learning and adaptingAnd why the fuck would a Sephiroth who could clearly learn the truth from the lifestream and had full control of both himself and Jenova (the the point that he could use her cells to manipulate others and create and control mimics of himself) decide to 'adapt' in a way that consistency aligns with aiding Jenova despite that being completely at odds with his original aims and character, while also being against the will of the planet?You're really bending over backwards here to poorly explain what would otherwise be obvious. Septhiroth was a somewhat cold and confused person, but he was self-aware of that and and clearly had a noble soul, he hated Hojo while admiring Gast and his dedication to being a great scientist. To understand what he does and yet continue to align with Jenova as a 'mother figure' instead of controlling and eradicating its influence as much as possible is an absurd thing to come to want considering all that happens.>It doesn't "subvert" anything. It attacks through mimicry, not manipulation. It's an automatic process, devoid of intellect.How exactly are you going about trying to argue that something so simple minded actually achieves all this *without* using the minds of the things it infects against their interest? If it's so simple and virus-like, yet at the same time not-manipulating people (though we can see its cells are capable of doing exactly that), then how is it going about forming convincing copies of existing people that were presumed dead and co-coordinating Sephiroth 'clones' anyway? I Like, I don't understand what you think it is supposed to be doing, or why it would be capable of doing everything it's shown to do, unless it *EITHER* has meaningful self agency, *OR* is capable of subverting the minds of others to allow it to create puppets though lacking a will of its own.
>a cow forgot about me>time to turn my most faithful employee into primordial sludge
>>738504191>in a way that consistency aligns with aiding JenovaIt doesn't aid Jenova at all. That's the answer to your conundrum. You are working backwards with your flawed logic; Jenova doesn't want to become God, Jenova doesn't want to rule the planet, and Jenova doesn't know shit about dick regarding the Lifestream. If Jenova knew about eating the Lifestream and becoming God, it never would've left the Northern Crater: it made a giant fucking wound the second it made landing on this planet, it could've become God right then and there if it had even the slightest notion of doing so.>You're really bending over backwards here to poorly explain what would otherwise be obvious.YOU are writing PAGES OF FANFICTION.>If it's so simple and virus-like, yet at the same time not-manipulating people (though we can see its cells are capable of doing exactly that), then how is it going about forming convincing copies of existing people that were presumed dead and co-coordinating Sephiroth 'clones' anyway? That process is whollly autonomous. It's a psychic space virus, it has a magic power. Jesus christ, we see it literally used in game by a moaning cripple, do you think he did it consciously, or do you think Jenova was manipulating him to do it? A mirror does not know what it's reflecting, it just does it.Meanwhile, the Sephiroth clones were being coordinated BY FUCKING SEPHIROTH. BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING AND HAS A PLAN THAT DOESN'T LINE UP WITH JENOVA'S IN ANY FUCKING WAY.
>i made you all endure a Saw like game where you murder and torture each other including myself so that you would be motivated enough to work hard to find a cure for the virus
>Having no thoughts of creating anything following bringing destruction, it only follows its instincts to incite ruinFollowing its instincts to incite ruin huh? Like say... bringing a meteor down on to the planet?
>I joined up with the villain because the heroes KILLED my daughter>daughter actually dies after he joins the villain >he knows this because he joins with his daughter>???
>>738504567No. Like eating people. How the shit would it know about Meteor, which Sephiroth only learned about by the knowledge of the Ancients? The goal of Meteor wasn't even destruction or chaos, it was to create a wound to siphon for power.
>How would it know about Meteor?When the hivemind assimilated Sephiroth, it learned about Meteor and the Lifestream since Sephiroth knew about them. That's how hiveminds work.
>>738455959Dawntrail is objectively mega dogshit. It is outright trash and a stain on YoshiPs name for even allowing it. 7.3 was an attempt to course correct and it still fell short.
>>738504708Jenova isn't a hivemind. At a base rate, if it was, explain why Cloud doesn't know anything about Sephiroth, Hojo, or other SOLDIERs.
Cloud was not a part of the hivemind with his very tiny amount of JENOVA cells in the same way Sephiroth is literally holding the head of JENOVA and the Sephiroth clones literally moving around with the arms and body. Seems like an easy answer. Also he made himself forget a lot of that information on purpose. It seems pretty obvious they're part of a hivemind since JENOVA/Sephiroth can command the JENOVA infected clones to come to the Northern Crater. And also invade their dreams and psyche.
>>738504912"Seems like an easy answer", except it's a bunch of fanfiction that you made up on the spot with no evidence in the game. "Very tiny amount"? Sephiroth clones are overdosed on Jenova cells, as much as the human body can tolerate, that's the entire point of the process.>and the Sephiroth clones literally moving around with the arms and body.What the fuck are you talking about? Do you think they actually don't have arms and legs?? They're people. They have limbs underneath those cloaks, they're just rummaging around LOOKING like garbage bags because of early PS1 graphics, they didn't cut off their arms.Sephiroth can command and puppeteer Jenova cells because he has incredible willpower and a psychic space virus has nifty features like that. You are really overcomplicating it for no real reason, and probably need to replay it sometime.
>>738504482This is interesting since the game makes it abundantly clear Hojo is DESPERATE to be involved somehow. To the point he inserts himself into the Act 2 finale and gets himself killed trying to be relevant and help "his" son. Even though the Sephiroth/JENOVA hybrid couldn't care less. Of course Hojo of all people would believe Sephiroth is the one in control. He needs his pathetic ego validated that badly.
>>738505064Alright, I'm tired of your fanfiction and you're clearly not willing to listen in any way.Go post on AO3, nobody here wants to read it. You haven't played FFVII for 20 years and you think you remember it clearly. You don't.
I'm pretty sure all I said was they were carrying around the head and arms and being constantly exposed. It's not like Jenova was running around injectimg ancients with a syringeAlso yeah. Cloud got injected and spends the whole game resisting the hive mind's effects on him. It's like... his whole arc? In the game? Remember?To be fair, it has been 20 years so maybe not
>>738504708The funny thing is that I don't even need to posit a 'hivemind', all I've been arguing at the most basic level is that Sephiroths motivations are being influenced by Jenova so that he wants to aid it instead of fully subverting it, which just makes sense, is well within the capacity of the abilities Jenova demonstrates, and is not remotely contradictory to anything else, and is a better explanation of Sephiroths actions than the assumption that he is acting on motivations that are somehow purely his own and happens to figure out how to somehow manipulate Jenova and make her use all kinds of latent abilities she never had before just because he's that much of a badass.>>738504708Maybe this does result in a 'hivemind'. I don't know, Jenova is mysterious and I don't know exactly how it works, but it can infect people, manipulate its hosts and form replicas of them or possibly those they know if 'knowledge' of how to do that is available (maybe it's twisting infected people's minds to get them to control the mimics just like Sephiroth does, maybe it was conjuring them out of memories, but it needs some way of doing this with enough understanding either way). It's clearly a powerful and highly sophisticated entity, regardless of how much of a 'personal mind' it does or does not have.
The confusion is deliberate and intentionally left unanswered until, and only if, Part 3 decides to address it.No gay theory will ever prove or disprove this chicken / egg scenario of Jenova's The Thing antics imply Sephiroth got assimilated and is merely a skin suit for it to use, or if Seph's legendary overwhelming class S SOLDIER mad skills got him to tame the beast and keep it as a pet as he follows his master plan to become a literal god.
>>738505616Okay, I think I understand what you're trying to say and where you confused me. "They" aren't "carrying" the Jenova limbs. They ARE the Jenova limbs. That is to say, the Sephiroths you meet across the game? Those aren't clones, those are larger Jenova chunks that have been morphed to take Sephiroth's shape and work according to his will. They transform into the Jenova boss fights at various parts of the game, and revert to their natural form of a miscellaneous limb or organ after being slain.
>>738505736>maybe it was conjuring them out of memories, but it needs some way of doing this with enough understanding either wayIt doesn't need an understanding, it literally just does a brainscan and mimics accordingly. It's magic, man.
>>738463610Vincent is not the dad lmao play the game
>>738495872>>738498765It's hilarious how Bethesda were clearly trying to write some super deep, morally complex faction with the Institute, and ended up creating one of the most comically inept and unambiguously evil group of cartoon bad guys in videogame history without even realizing it.
>>738457478>Kefka in 6 wants to end all existence because he’s a nihilist who doesn’t see the point in lifeit's been a minute since i played 6, but didn't Kefka just see a chance to grab power and take it, just happening to destroy the world in the process?
>>738504543Motives too complex, simplify further
>>738506871He doesn't want power for the sake of being a god. He merely wants to fuck shit up and goes after more power for the sake of fucking even more shit up more efficiently.His backstory makes it clear he's gone bat shit insane, but from his dialogue you can see how he didn't become stupid. He is a machiavellian Joker, planning his way to the top not to rule everyone but to simply mock and destroy things because it's funny and nothing matters anyway. It's not even nihilistic, he is simply delulu and toying with everyone like a pigeon playing chess.Some people complain about one-dimensional villains being evil for the sake of being evil, but Kefka is evil because yes.
>>738455291He's right thoughbeit. Normies still seething about negative utilitarianism 26 years later
>>738501346>XII is Star WarsNot this shit again.
>villain is just a fucking cunt
>>738455959I still find it funny how he threatened you with war on Eorzea.Like, we'd curb stomp his idiot ass if we had the chance. It took a 30 year time jump and tech bullshit to even fight his dad and even THEN he managed to die once and only "won" due to the surprise factor.Absolute buffoon of a character and easily the funniest part of DT just for how utterly ignorant this idiot was.I'd pay money for an AU of him actually sailing on Eorzea just to watch Limsa die laughing before blowing his shit away with cannonfire.>>738490174The worst part is all of this shit was pure cutscenes. Not even a single bit of story duty during the whole attack.>>738460584It's absolutely mindboggling how the story was handled.>Champion is fully competent, deals with issues and actively stops you from joining in>Actually found this a pleasant surprise, even if I get the annoyance some people felt by "thing happening, ignore it snd go fight the gym lol">Even deals with the villain without making him a villain>Villain goes full retard anyways>>738501346It's STILL NOT STAR WARS.
>>738509792It is so blatantly Star Wars.
>>738455291This is PETA's actual mission statement btw
>>738461108Switch Elder God Tier with Great Tier and High Tier with Mid Tier if you want the definitions to match up with the actions
>>738497967I can fix her...
>>738509792>>738510093>>738510117You even shoot down the Death Star at the end.
>>738455291In context, what Seymour is doing is the logical outcome of the Church of Yevon's and Yunalesca's philosophy, which is just to minimize suffering as much as possible since there is no true hope.If there is no hope, and all you can do is avoid suffering, then he is right, and everyone else is just extending suffering for no reason.
>>738463957All you have to do to fix Three houses and Edelgard is to delete the Slitherers
>>738457091MIND HACK
>>738455291How dare you call him retarded when he married Yuna?
>>738461108
>>738504739At the very least, Dawntrail was so bad it forced Yoshida and SE to address how stale the game was getting.>Cross Glamours>One ilv for all jobs>Complete combat overhaul>Making jobs feel complete by lv 50>Reworking open zones to be more lively>Cross Data Center PFI firmly believe none of this would have happened if Dawntrail didn't bomb as hard as it did.
>>738457478All wrong, lol
>>738505774We literally have the games and the supplemental materials all telling us it’s the latter. The former is just schizo nonsense dreamt up by Sephiroth fangirls who want Sephiroth to be a poor innocent dindu.
>>738455291he is right retard you have low iq
>>738461962Ikoma isn't an iconA
>>738462445My ff1 mage was named x-wiz>>738462910>GarlandWho are you? Who are you?
>>738478532The threads when ztd first came out were something special.All that hype, all that disappointment, all those memes.
>>738464506Isn't from making a knights in space fantasy mecha game? Is that picrel?
>>738506871>>738470624Kefka was also a continuation of the themes of the Empire, which makes him unique. Emperor Gestahl empowered freaks and criminals and betrayed the good men who worked for him until there was nothing left of his empire but a literal clown who believes in nothing.
>>738469407Shadows seem out
>>738462910>I don't know what Garland's motive was.Go play Stranger of Paradise.
>>738455291To be fair afterlife is a thing in the game, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone questioned humanity itself to be an interior form of existance.Problem with Seymour is that his real motivation was his mommy, and that made his idea unconvincing, but you retards would say "he did nothing wrong" if his motivation was based on his ideology.
