What's the key take on MMOs? Themeparks are linear treadmills that let you see through the world because there is no loss?
Without loss, risk becomes cosmetic. I'm not talking about full loot PvP, though those servers would probably be popular because of how PvP games are by far the most popular and hours played. But risk can be meaningful with material repairs durability, bringing together the farming of thousands to the economy of millions -- and you can give players more power because they can only keep it by staying alive or having gold. Without loss, economies flatten. Without economies, the world becomes a guided content track instead of a living world.
>>738488449How do you transition a game like WoW to material repairs without isolating the comfortable (even if shallow) progression system everyone is used to?
>>738487276>What's the key take on MMOs?Play the one that grooms you into a tranny. It seems that those are the most played MMOs today
every mmo sucks
is this a AI thread? i don't understand what the 3 first posts are even trying to tell
>>738489623Just make sandbox servers. PvE and PvP with an increased focus on economy but with a lot more horizontal and vertical power would be kino.>>738490327What's confusing you?
>>7384898924chan is a browser MMO, and you like it.
>>738489892An MMO is any game with massive amounts of players and a persistent world. It can be anything, from shooters to tab target games.
/ESL Bot Nutriments Nigger General/>"Warm memos" and other ESL sayings.>Text scrambled through Transformer and Google Translate.>Instead of using "is", he uses "of", when discussing subjects. Example? "Quality is of objectivity.">En and Em dashes uses with reckless disregard for their meaning.>Punctuation marks used improperly constantly.>Crazy shit like starting a paragraph with fucking ellipses.>Entire paragraphs, semicolons, colons, and dashes between parentheses like some sort of lunatic.>Arguably the worst grammatical usage ever encountered on 4chan.>Crazy claims about videogame and art objectivity that are never backed up.>Starts talking about vitamins for no reason.>Legit thinks botting communities are a good thing.>Legit thinks multiplayer is better than singleplayer.>When pressed for evidence, shows charts about neurotransmitters off /fit/ threads where everyone laughed him off the board.>Claims eventually boil down to his preference.
>>738491281this shit sucks
>>738487276Dead genre
>>738490995I just want the economy to matter again, if we're talking WoW. People should be able to gather, craft, and trade for whatever equipment and items they want. What do you lose from removing bind-on except the linear treadmill? Surely that's a win-win.
>>738490327>is this a AI thread?Yes.
>>738494034>Repeated OP pics with often different topics means it's AI.>What are Captchas?
>wants risk>proposes minor inconvenience (material repairs)Full-loot PvP or GTFO
Oh look, it's the same thread by the same OP for the past 300 DAYS THREE HUNDRED DAYS. Basically, MMOs have MOSTLY died off because they all fucking suck. With no exception. The only games that have truly survived are games that are actually unique ie World of Warcraft and Old School RuneScape. Ironically, the only MMO I personally enjoy is RuneScape 3. Yes, that's the ONLY one. MMOs are all garbage.
>>738489892L2 is still alright
>>738493015How do you guarantee people do the content?
>>738489892>>738491763>>738496249That's not an MMO problem. It's a leveling, linear treadmill themepark problem. Fun has been solved since 1985. The height of motivation is the height of fun.
What happened to MapleStory classic coming to take us all home and save the day?
>>738498164The goalpost has been moved to a Sword Art Online game from Valve.
>>738496447Gathering, crafting, trading, WPvEing, and PvPing *are* the content. That's a living world.
How did the French manage to make the best MMORPG of 2026?
>>738496447You make the content rewarding and associated with the story. Make the content grant access to new locations, materials, etc. besides having more enemies to fight.>>738498164It never was, it was just retarded nostalgia tourists thinking it'd be good.>>738495298Full-loot PvP is antithetical to RPG mechanics where you can spend hours to acquire a shiny new piece of equipment.>>738493015Plenty of MMO economies "matter", WoW isn't one of them of course because it doesn't have extensive gathering, crafting, trading.
>>738499875Also, people would arguably see more content because they wouldn't get bored so quickly doing the same dungeons over and over again. If you do material requirements right, people would mine ore or gather herbs in all of the zones -- a lot of exploration.
For me, it is the single player MMO Erenshor.
>>738501362not an MMO
>>738487276Sandbox MMOs are extremely niche.The genre IS the so-called "themepark"
>>738501403It is a single player simulated MMO <3
>>738501202I don't think locations, materials, and enemies should be locked behind story content. People would quit in droves. It's completely antithetical to a living world.>Full-loot PvP is antithetical to RPG mechanics where you can spend hours to acquire a shiny new piece of equipment.So don't risk what you can't afford to lose.
>>738502964>People would quit in droves.Yet it doesn't happen and is a natural part of video game progression?>It's completely antithetical to a living world.Meaningless buzzword>So don't risk what you can't afford to lose.Retarded mentality.
>>738503039damn dude, your newfag ass owned that anon with all of your vagueposting
>>738503091meant for >>738502964
>>738503140No it was meant for your newfag ass here >>738503039all you newfags read off the same script
>>738503229meant for >>738503091
>>738487276Micrrotransactions.Every gameplay element is created as an ad for microtransactions. It's impossible to unsee.
>>738503039It's not natural for players to run out of things to do, get bored, and quit if your game is good. Just dungeons isn't that.>Meaningless buzzwordWhy they're getting bored should be obvious at this point.>Retarded mentality.How so? Just don't die.
>>738487276I wont call myself an expert or anything but ive played several mmos,id say fpr round maybe 15 years ago when i started. The key take about them is the multiplayer socializing aspect of them. You get to play games with randoms, join a guild, join ventrillo, teamspeak, skype, or discord whatever the lot use nowadays. Flirt with the girls or whatever, have some fun with others and make friends while playing a shitty game. The more solo focussed you the mmo is the more pointless it is as a game.
I got a hot milf sending me boob pics over an mmo.
Think about why a "massively multiplayer" game like Rust is still on the front page of steamcharts like 13 years after release and no typical MMO is and you have many answers. What those answers are I can't say because I'm retarded.
>>738507728I also forgot the questions. I'm eating hot dogs.
>>738504617>Son the iteam to the end changes.What did they mean by this?
I truly believe the best part of a game is getting through it, and when you get to the end it should be acceptable to run out of content and stop playingwe've somehow engineered a system where loss of progression is encouraged solely because it retains users who get trapped into juggling endlessly to stay at the forefront of contentit's not about the destination, it's about the journey, that kind of shit
>>738487276They just take too much time to get rolling and you can get the same experience elsewhere for a much shorter time investment. Basically, MMORPGs need to take their time for the journey to matter and no one has the attention span for that anymore.
>>738487276social media and things like discord ruined the core element of MMOs, they can never be good again
>>738507825I don't know why it does that. It can give perfect sentences and stories for anything as long as it's not in an image.
This gook fuck REFUSES to save mmos!
>>738487276My key take is that MMO’s are dead and with crimson desert’s success everyone can see that they should move to single player experience.Blizzard should just make a single player open world Warcraft game although looking at modern blizzard they would never be able to pull off something like CD.
One I idea I had is for MMOs to make a separate server and call it the vanilla server. The vanilla server would drop all the daily/weekly shit except for some minor classic MMO elements and just be a normal MMO. People can pick up and putdown the game whenever they want without all the daily shit forcing people to play everyday. No more daily/weekly events, no more daily content, basically just drop the modern day mobile shit that's infected MMOs for over a decade. New items that are introduced on the other servers as events and such will just be added to the drop/craft pools on the vanilla server. This is what a true "Classic Sever" should be like.I know the idea probably has a few holes as I only had maybe 1 or 2 MMOs in mind that could benefit from this.... I think.
op is indian
>>738507728Most MMOs aren't on Steam.
>>738507961We need an everybody, all day, every day game, and sandbox design like material repairs is just a simple way of doing it. Loss also increases risk:reward, so every moment is more thrilling. What would you do in Minecraft if you didn't have to repair tools or remake them after death? You would just beat The End and quit after a weekend. Again, you can give players more power if they have to stay alive or have up to a lot of gold/materials to keep it.
MMO can't exist where companies prohibit social interaction.Most focus on anti-social mechanics like group content that punishes playing with low skill players and imbalanced rewards like limited items people fight over; or linear quest segments that prevent playing together.An actual themepark is something like Timeless Isle where you actually have a couple hundred people at all times running around doing activities together.
The people making MMOs fundamentally don't understand them. This should be required reading:https://mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htmIt's an essay on player types. Companies only care about the paypigs but by focusing on those they drive all the other players away until the paypigs have nobody left to play with and leave too. Similarly all jew media focused on women because women were the retards throwing away all the money and driving advertising; but by completely alienating the entire male audience the women have no reason to watch either since they won't attract men by doing so. Gaming is going through this same thing that TV went through 18 years ago; causing its own irrelevance.
>>738487276The key take is that adding PvP to your game is pointless. You don't want that crowd in your game.Most of the players don't give a fuck about PvP (and I'm not talking about casual dads with 3 jobs and 8 children). PvP in MMOs is usually only played by the same sweatlords who actually hate the game they're playing. And worst of all, they're the loudest minority, which makes devs think that people actually want MORE PvP rather than PvE content.Case in point, this place - people here will usually scream about how they need full loot PvP, the more hardcore the better. If you want your game to fail miserably, then listen to them, but no game ever has benefitted from listening to /v/ tryhard faggots.
>>738514221I've played full loot pvp as someone who doesn't pvp.Anyone could kill anyone else for any reason once.Killing anyone a second time needs a good in game reason or you get banned.Killing a player flags you as outlaw. Anyone can kill outlaws without penalty. Certain areas have enemies that will kill outlaws. Towns have law enforcement that take outlaws to jail. If you serve time in jail you stop being outlaw. Anyone can still come in and kill you in jail. If you flee jail then when you eventually go back you can't do anything at all until your sentence ends. If you die you stop being outlaw.Most importantly: Equipment was not rare and was more cosmetic than power defining. It was a pain in the ass to collect stuff from across the world but 99% of it is there to be gotten at any time.
>>738508031Yeah, games like WoW should not have leveling and should have an esports scene.
>>738508168>As if people fuck around on social media more than they play games.
>>738509378Crimson Desert maxed out at 275k concurrent and now has 62k. PvP games are vastly more popular than singleplayer.
>>738511825I'm white.
>top 5 mmos1. WoW2. FF143. OSRS4. GW25. TESOfuck...
>>738514221The most popular games are PvP, by far.
>>738506065>No futuristic game with fantasy classes.
Life bar manipulation: You give damage. You take damage. And you heal damage. Trinity's winning.
>>738522810What about positioning the enemy or your teammates? Or what about buffs, debuffs, or other types of damage?
>>738523554You mean, like, LOSing the bosses, or just not standing in the fire?Buffs and debuffs are spread throughout classes in WoW, but I'm not sure they're compelling reasons to bring classes. I think dungeons and raids are meant to be playable with most, if not all, classes.You could theoretically have every class with everything, like GW2, but I'm not sure it's as good. People really like the playstyles of different roles, and stuff like tanking and everyone being reliant on you is really fun.
>>738487276It's been discuss to death, MMOs died with the Golden age of the internet when socialising online was genuine and not full of terminally ill sex addict freaks like this pdo place. Add up the devs nuking requiring group effort to everything being solo. Best MMO was and always will be a private Ragnarok Online server
>>738524183WoW's still one of the top 10 games. And games like Lost Ark and New World were extremely popular on launch. People want an MMO.
>>738524357No nowaday people want a perfect MMO to replace their shitty life as a coping mechanism and it always fail to live up to their retarded expectation without them realising that the modern players are half the problem on itself. WoW is still popular because legacy. Lost Ark sucks and New World shat the bed on release and never recovered. Only Runescape is thriving
Why isn't there an mmo yet where paypigs are literally a more powerful ruling race over the F2P players? It's literally the case for every mmo already but none of them have leaned into and embraced the disparity. Just be completely overt with it where f2p players are slaves. People are fucking sick of everyone being the chosen one. Make an actual hierarchical class system and people would enjoy it for the larp.
>>738524183>MMOs died with the Golden age of the internet when socialising online was genuine and not full of terminally ill sex addict freakshttps://www.meridian59.com/game-info/history/damion-shuberts-meridian-history/>Within one day of being live, Meridian has its first virtual prostitute, making that Meridian’s oldest profession.>I smite my first player, an annoying person named ‘Sexy’ who emoted ‘wraps her legs around you’ and similar phrases as I was attempting to tell her (in front of an audience) that she needed to stop killing newbies and doing odd things with their corpses.newfag
>>738524924It was the exception and not the norm. Back when NEET wasn't actually a lifestyle and people had ordinary life outside their keyboards. Is that really your line of defense here, that retarded virgins like you always had one dude came up online even in the pass to act shamelessly ? Don't make me laugh
>>738496427I tried to give it a chance after DragonNet. Oh boy the game is so fucking ugly, boring and plays horribly. It hits even more hard when you notice that WoW came in about the same time and is so much better game in almost every field.(I love Bill Brown's music and Dion theme is beautiful).
>>738487276Fun when it was real people, different types of guilds/communities had different vibes. Now its just a safe space for weird people who are chronically online. Its not worth putting up with for game play that is only stimulating at the top %, which getting to takes a LONG fucking time to get to in most cases.
>>738525176they called ERP tinysex in the 90s because it was extremely prevalent in games derived from the tinymud codebase. there are books written about all of the "tinysex" and "cybering" happening in mud, mmo, and other online communities in the 90s and early 2000s. it was far more prevalent then than it is now as the old internet was sex dominant. "the internet is for porn" was not just a meme.
>>738527234You see how you keep talking about e-sex when its not what made MMOs ever good to begin with nor is unique to it
>>738487276>What's the key take on MMOsloot, loot, loot. you gotta have fat loot. no loot is death to an mmo.
>>738527578you started this by making the blatantly false claim that mmos in the past were not full of sex addicts
>>738524183I still play it time to time, nothing else comes close that's for sure
I usually play for the music and just the landscapes. I play a game called Perfect World and it’s generic Chinese slop. But the music is fucking incredible. It’s mostly nostalgia because I made an account in 2010 and haven’t played until I came back recently and wow they didn’t delete the account.
>>738527782Yes it wasn't full of sex addicts that's right and I said more than that but I suppose you felt compelled personally by this peculiar fact
before raiding became a thing, if they weren't having a pvp brawl most of the playerbase in old mmos spent the majority of their time in social hubs like taverns paying virtual prostitutes (male) to erotic dance for them and say lewd things in chat
>>738527976I also played Tera for a little bit and surprise, that game had an incredible ost too.
>>738528117public chat usually had someone spamming offers to sell nudes as well
>ERP was better back thenI'll let you cope and get drunk on nostalgie
>>738528117>>738528298if you played everquest, star wars galaxies, or phantasy star around 2003 this was a very common sight
>>738524665>No>People have just been playing all these MMOs for their health.
>>738528495it was strong in star wars galaxies in particular as the game devs codified sexual work as a legit profession in that game
>>738487276It's crazy how shows and books and stuff made it seem like there was such a thing as a good MMO but it's impossible to this day because of either netcode or dev retardation
>>738525570PvP is fun.
>>738528861Why do you think netcode is a problem? Games like New World and Planetside 2 do lots of calculations just fine.
mmos did not decline because socializing lost its novelty. it declined because devs and operators started excessively trying to sanitize all social interaction in their online spaces. also killing social environments with increased focus on stuff like raiding and instanced content. in the past people would casually chat while engaged in combat fields because the social space was open enough for such an interaction to occur while simultaneously the combat was not quite sweaty enough to suck all the attention away from the social elements. with raiding came the sweatiness and the pressure to use outside chat programs like vent or teamspeak for sweaty team coordination. instances brought more isolation where you can have a game full of thousands of active players but the world seems like a ghost town. then new movements in problematic speech overmoderation strangled the remaining social spaces.
>>738530064Its both the devs and the way interacting online changed
>>738530064and there is a difference between sweatiness and difficulty. while it was less sweaty, combat in old mmos was not easy. it was challenging but had slower pacing so you had time to chat a bit in between making major strategic moves. at least outside of pvp encounters.
>>738530064>>738530341So, games before WoW?How about just accept that social interaction isn't that prevalent?
>>738530760>>738530341>>738530064Name one game that did this well.
>>738530760a game where players rarely interact is no longer massively multiplayer. a fan of the genre should not be accepting that.
>>738530973L2
>>738487276If you aren't playing one that forces you to co-operate with random people at nearly every step of the way, it's not an mmo.The last good MMOs were Asheron's Call, FFXI, Everquest and Ragnarok Online. Everything after has been a theme park 12345 sim.
>>738531015>>738531158People don't interact outside of lobbies in APEX or Fortnite or Overwatch, either. That doesn't mean less of those games.
>>738530973ultima online before renaissance. and everquest before kunark.
>>738531392especially UO during The Second Age.that is also the style that all of the mmo anime draws from. That specific expansion of UO was extremely popular in japan in 1998-1999 when most of the foundational japanese mmo fantasy stories that the modern mmo animes are based on were being conceived.
>>738524753irl already exists
>>738531336apex, fortnight, and overwatch are competitive shooter games not mmorpgs
>>738532140What's your point? There's more interaction with people in those games, and people still aren't usually adding others. They just solo queue.
>>738532639the foundational point of role playing games and mmos is socialization.that is not the same for shooters.
>>738534236They're team shooters, again, with more interaction than MMOs because they condense everything down into queues.
>>738534458interacting with your own squad is not more interaction than mmos. it is a comparatively massive decrease in interaction.
>>738534658How so? Instanced and world players in WoW often aren't even on your server. And it's not as if you need voice for pub dungeons.
>>738534819wow and other instanced games are not mmos
>>738535016>Wrong headcannon.
>>738534819why are you pointing at post-decline mmos when we've already discussed how such mmos hurt their own socialization
>>738535416he can't tell the difference between a competitive shooter and an mmo because to him they're both games about competition of his squad against the entire rest of the playerbase. he was too late to experience the persistent living worlds that muds and mmos used to be where the entire playerbase interacted like a large scale virtual braunstein game (look it up if you dont know what that is).
>>738535416WoW has the most normal population.What MMO is your standard for socialization and design?
>>738536287Ragnarok Online
>>738536287Ultima, EQ, and SWG were the big golden age ones with good braunstein style playerbase interaction in their foundational design. These titles eroded away with bad updates and there is not really a modern mmo that captures that style anymore unless you dig into private servers that unfortunately lack the population for that proper golden age feel due to their niche status.This is a style that WOW didn't even attempt and the majority of future titles unfortunately copied the WOW formula.
Runescape did almost every single thing correctly right from the start, and yet there's literally 0 MMOs that have ever tried to copy it. The only game that has ever copied from RS is Eldevin, and it only copied the graphics, not any aspect of the gameplay.
>>738536953runescape is foundationally optimized for nonsocial solo play and lacks the symbiotic persistent world interactions between players that golden age mmos once had. runescape is ultimately still just a themepark game.
