hes a little too childlike, his story is cool though

Don't think so chief.
Vaan, from 12, feels not even like a protag at all.
Didn't played 16 but Clive seems design wise very plain, especially considering that he was influenced by the success of GoT.
Also, lighting from 13 was very unlikeable because of her big bitch sis attitude.

I'd put tidus at 4th place of the worst FF protags.

>>738578179
He's not the best but certainly not the worst.
He is from the best Final Fantasy though so that helps.

I don't understand why people hate Tidus so much

>>738578179
Cloud is a far, FAR bigger faggot.

i cant stand cloud, he's the worst imo. 15 and 12 also had kinda irrelevant twinks desu.
zidane is the best and least autistic/most realistic. fight me.

>>738578179
Frioniel and Vaan are right there. But honestly I like him, I'd place him further up.

>>738578179
Vahn.

>>738578376
he's pretty much everything your bog standard nerd is supposed to hate......

lightning, retards

>>738578179
I’ve only played this one and 7, so he’s tied as the worst.

>>738578179
Squall has actual autism and has to be taught how to interact with human beings halfway through the game after being needlessly cruel to his teammates, especially Quistis.

What’s the canonical classes of the protags? I know most of them are fighters, with some mix classes in later games. Tidus is shown to be a fighter/time mage as haste and delay attacks are a canonical part of his moveset. Zidane is obviously a fighter/thief. Vaan is kind of a fighter/thief too but he changes classes in game, but unlike Onion Knight, class changes aren’t a key part of his gameplay. Cloud and Squall are straight up fighters, but it gets more confusing as the series age. Lightning is a fighter/black mage/white mage, but she can only be one at a time and not cross class. I guess Clive would be fighter/black mage? Is there a class that doesn’t summon but turns into the summons themselves? Noctis is a little harder to out down since he doesn’t really “use” magic but he can’t really be called just a fighter as well. Maybe fighter/summoner, since most of his weapons are kind of summons.

>>738578179
Lmao no. The worst protag is Lighting. Bitch is insufferable and incompetent

>>738578179
Yes

>>738578179
if anything he's the best.

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>>738578179
You? With a WOMAN!?

>>738578782
And he's still not as much of an annoying faggot as Tidus

>>738578782
>needlessly cruel to his teammates, especially Quistis.
Did you not see how much of a fuck up she was during the assassination mission?

The only good one actually.

But he's good at sports and is a ladies man so obviously you don't like him lmao

>>738580441
>Tidus can't even have wet dreams without his father barging in to criticize him

>>738579050
Cloud would be a Red Mage since he comes packaged with both physical and magical aptitude

>>738578179
Umm Vaan?

>>738580745
I can't decide if I dislike Vaan, who is kind of a nothing in his own story even though he means well, or Lightning, who is a bitch in a story that makes no sense, more

>>738578376
In the context of the story, he's incredibly well written. The problem is that his context is being an emotionally stunted fish-out-of-water jock with abandonment and daddy issues. That's just an annoying character.
But like I said, he's very well written for the insufferable cunt that he is. And FFX is actually my favorite JRPG of all time because of the strong character writing.

>>738578179
No, he is cool.

>>738578179
I go back and forth between Squall and Lightning being the worst.
One is an insufferable faggot and the other has the emotional depth of a drop of water.

>>738578179
how is this even up for debate when vaan exists?

>>738578179
Tidus is a Jesus allegory.

Anyone who hates Tidus played the English dub and ruined the entire game for themselves
Japanese dub is pure kino sovl and superior in every way

Lightening has as much personality as she does ass.

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>>738578179
Tidus is a Star Wars protagonist in a Final Fantasy game.

>>738581176
Star Wars wishes it had a character as interesting as Tidus.

>>738581167
Vanille is the true main character anyway

>>738581048
Jesus was a Tidus allegory.

Desktop thread?

Tidus is one of the best protagonists of the franchise and FFX easily has the best overall story and setting.
Whilst he is naive and immature, I never found him annoying. He's is definitely the most relatable character in FF I'd assume for most players and his growth is perfectly paced.
Cloud is obviously the best protagonist of the franchise but FF7's story is weak when the focus is not on Cloud and basically ends once the big plot twist happens.

bad protags: Vaan, Zidane, Butz. Clive and Lightning aren't bad protags but I don't like them

>>738578179
Zidane was probably shittier. But X is the worst FF by far.

>>738581837
>But X is the worst FF by far.
did you form this opinion on your own or from a forum in the 00s?

>>738581893
Nobody was saying something so goddamn stupid on any forums in the 00s

>>738581921
>the game is awful, proof: HAHAHAHA meme
>"it's too linear/hallway simulator" because no world map
>"X and VII are overrated and bad, 9 is the best ackshually"
the 00s forum drama determined the taste of vidya forever. OoT and FF7 are overrated trash, the worst games of all time.

>>738582036
They're the 'worst of all time
' because they're popular? You're an unthinking NPC

>>738578376
he's a whiny bitch
>this is MY story

>>738580793
Vaan and peneleope or w/e his gf's name in was a last minute shoe horn. He was never intended to be the main character but someone at square was afraid that Basch or Balthier were too old and that the market wanted someone young for a main character.

Vaan sucks and is a chipmunk faggot with a tiny zesty vest that has no actual impact on the game's story at all.

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>>738582349
Just look at this guy. This nigga zesty!

>>738582376
He is from a desert.
Just furiously ignore that actual desert dwellers wear full-body loose white clothes because letting the sun hit your bare flesh is a terrible idea.

>>738578179
no

>>738582376
From Tidus to this who was over shadowed by Balthier. Along with the fact the romance bait was done really badly at the first half of the game after the themes of 7,8 & 9. X really felt like the beginning where a FF protag MC had no fucking clue what he was doing when it came to women.

>>738582451
Balthier was the true main character like I explained earlier. Vaan was shoe horned in due to marketing.

We had FFXI which was over shadowed and took years 2 years too slow to release in EN. FFXIII which was what if Cloud was woman x 3. 14 1.0 which was a disaster. Kingdom Heart slop the entire time during it.
Would have saved everyone a lot of time if they dropped worshiping SquareEnix due to all their glaring flaws.

>>738582451
>X really felt like the beginning where a FF protag MC had no fucking clue what he was doing when it came to women
True. He learned about french kissing from watching Seymour and Yuna

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>>738582469
See I disagree. Because Ashe has the most investment in 12's plot. It's her kingdom that's being held hostage. It's her ancestry that decides how to break Dalmasca free. It's her husband that was killed and is being used to stoke her rage. She's the one the Occuria are investing in. She's the one who has to decide whether to kill thousands in the name of revenge or not. The story of 12 hinges on her

Balthier is the hero of the story, he says so himself

>>738582550
It's in a Square interview somewhere, so whether you disagree or not doesn't matter.

>>738582550
They didn't need a slum boy and city girl for it. Imagine taking a random NPC from the start and throwing them into the main story like that was a great idea. For some reason Ivalice always pisses me off having revisited it constantly in the DS games after the original playstation one.
When it came to Final Fantasy my concept was one humongous world imagined just for one series. Ivalice always triggered the fuck out of me when it appears.

>>738582349
>square was afraid that Basch or Balthier were too old and that the market wanted someone young for a main character
I don't think either of these two would make a good MC.

In general, I think the idea of Vaan&Penelo was fine, just undercooked like most of 12. I do prefer naive MCs because they work better as self-inserts without having to be an amnesiac. There is just no plot relevance at all for the two characters

>>738582761
Basch would have been fine, he's the fallen outcast knight trying to save his country.

Same as Cecil in FF4.

>>738578179
in a world where Clive, Vaan, Noctis and Lightning exist, no.

>>738582761
It doesn't matter what you think. You're a reddit spacing faggot posting on 4chan. Matsuno's vision was for Basch to be the main character, but post-Sakaguchi Square had no faith in his vision, meddled like crazy, and eventually caused his quitting the project. The end result was FF12 as we got it; a profoundly mediocre RPG that signaled the linear decline of the Final Fantasy brand.

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>>738582597
Well when a character has a decision this big to make and then the ghost talking to the final boss says their goals live on through that character, you'll have to forgive me for assuming she has main character privilege

Tidus is one of the better FF protags

>>738582524
>. Kingdom Heart slop the entire time during it.
kh 1 and 2 are great games and infinitely better than any ff game after x

>>738582550
She is however an irritating bitch. The main character of a game should be likeable.

>>738582761
Basch is a faggot

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>>738582810
maybe, one of the big disappointments for me was the underutilisation of Judge Gabranth, he was a great character. If Basch were MC, they would have to redo a lot of the story and make Gabranth a more prominent antagonist.

Definitely couldn't have Balthier as MC, he's good as a side character but would be way too quippy and annoying if he was the central focus. He's also quite irrelevant for a lot of the game

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>>738578179
Enter.

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>>738582246
>this is MY story
And it is. It starts with his abduction by Sin and ends with his sacrifice.

>>738580565
She was a complete fuckup long before that. During the Fire Cavern exam she desperately tries to flirt with him with incredibly fake “teehee hope you aren’t nervous like the other guys who are totally crushing on me” and it’s so pathetic you can practically see Squall cringing in real time. In the JP version of his inner monologue he essentially calls her a joke for this.
There’s a reason she was fired for having no leadership qualities.

>>738578179
That would be Lightning

>>738583616
Truly a clown from start to finish. Any reasonable guy would've treated her the same as Squall did.

>>738580793
I’ve grown to appreciate Lightning over time. Yeah she’s an unapologetic bitch, but she’s damn memorable and there’s pretty much no JRPG heroine like her. She’s at her best in LR, where she’s mellowed out a bit but still has to deal with ridiculous nonsense, so her annoyed zingers are comedy gold.

Vaan, on the other hand, is just a pile of nothing.

>>738582469
>Balthier
>true main character
The guy doesn’t even have a real reason to be in the party, let alone to be the main character. For most of the game the only justification for his presence is “uhhh he wants payment from the princess I guess”. The only party members who are genuinely plot relevant are Ashe and Bash.

>>738584150
I meant Basch, I mix them up.

>>738578179
Yes. His design is terrible, his voice is painful to listen to. He's supposedly an athlete but can barely use a sword. He's a loudmouth and makes no attempt to be polite or try and not draw attention to himself. He has the worst kind of daddy issues. He's involved in one of the most insipid love stories in the series. He insists that it's "his story" when it's clearly not.

Stop fucking remembering him only for the stupid fucking ghost hug scene and think back to how obnoxious he is throughout the whole game.

>>738583183
I don't even understand the hatred towards Vaan. Like, the thing that people complain about the most with him is exactly why he's better than Tidus. Vaan is relatively inoffensive at least. He might not be the most dynamic or exciting main character, but I'm not even really sure that it's accurate to call him the protagonist so much as he's the viewpoint character. Complaining about Vaan is a meme.

>>738585448
A viewpoint character and a protagonist means the same thing. He's so boring you cannot even attempt to defend him without saying he isn't dynamic or exciting.

>>738585383
>He's supposedly an athlete but can barely use a sword
Yeah there's a lot of overlap between underwater football and using a sword to kill monsters the size of houses

>>738578179
Every one of them post-7 sucks ass.
It's like they took the worst character traits of disk one Cloud and made protags for each one. The bar was so low that they thought they could walk right over it again but tripped every time.
They all might as well be Sonic fanfic OCs.

>>738579050
Bartz is a Freelancer, and technically everything.

>>738582810
Cecil is a fucking doormat

>>738578376
People who played it were children and could not understand the subtle character progression due to immaturity and shoddy voice acting.

>>738578179
yes

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The shittiest protag is the remake Cloud. What a fucking lame, brooding dweeb.

>>738583183
/Thread

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>>738582469
>>738582628

>>738585448
Anon, the viewpoint character being dull, flat and forgettable is one of the cardinal sins of character writing. This is the character whose personality and perspective frames the entire world you’re trying to portray. He doesn’t have to be the most important person in the story, but his understanding of the world and his life in it has to be engaging enough to make you feel personally involved with what you’re seeing.

One of the most common criticisms of FFXII is that it’s boring and uninteresting. Objectively that’s not the case, but it’s presented to us through the world’s most boring viewpoint character who doesn’t know anything about anything, doesn’t really care to learn, and whose personal engagement boils down to a ten year old whining empire bad freedom good.
Vaan is poorly written as a major character, but as the viewpoint character he’s outright horrendous.

>>738578376
because he didnt fuck Yuna, what a fucking faggot

>>738587592
Pretty sure the cutscene on the lake implied sex

>>738578179
He's actually the greatest protagonist

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>>738578179
Extremely close, but no.
>God Tier (Have nuanced arcs with a twist in them.)
Cloud (VII), Terra
>Great Tier (Have arcs and/or their prominent personality is that great.)
Shotgun, Serah, Butz
>Good Tier (Likable, have quirks and/or let their actions speak for themselves. Zack in particular is a terrible character, but being so ridiculously likable gets him this high.)
Onion Kid, Warrior of Light (DDFF), Fighter (I), Zack, Lightning (LR)
>Average Tier (Aren't annoying and exist, can be cheered for.)
Yuna (X-2), Firion
>Bad Tier (Annoying and/or unpleasant.)
Ceodore, Squall, Lann, Clive, Vincent
>Terrible Tier (Obnoxiously annoying, a detriment to their party, one note personality or failed to establish a personality even though they tried.)
Ace, Lightning (XIII), Zidane, Noctis
>Atrocity Tier (Attempted to ruin their games, committed atrocities or have no reason to be there.)
Cecil, Tidus, Cloud (VIIR), Vaan

That's being primarily evaluated as a protagonist specifically though, which has its own extra requirements outside of characterization.

>>738587496
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. If you're writing a viewpoint character that's not the protagonist, then you absolutely don't want him to overshadow who the story is actually about. I'm not saying Vaan is some amazing character, but the hate for him is overblown.
>Oh, he doesn't know about anything, doesn't care to learn, and personal engagement boils down to a ten-year-old whining
That's Tidus. You literally just described Tidus.

Notice how no one brings up the FF9 rat, he is so shit people memoryholled him and his game

>>738578782
sounds based
meanwhile tida is a normie chad that should have no place in my games

>>738588823
Why would anyone mention Zidane in a shitty protagonist thread?

>>738578376
>ahhhhhh

>>738579050
We've only been given a few canonical (from now on marked with a *) Classes, but we have inferred ones, even when their stated Class is something unique instead.
WoL (Fighter), Firion (Warrior), Onion Kid (Onion Knight*), Cecil (Dark Knight & Paladin*), Butz (Freelancer), Terra (Mystic Knight* but called Magitek Elite), Cloud (Mystic Knight*), Squall (Mystic Knight*), Zidane (Thief*), Tidus (Bard or Time Mage), Yuna (Gunner*), Vaan (Thief), Lightning (Mystic Knight), Serah (Beastmaster but called Dimension-Traveling Protector, Time Traveler and I think also Starseeker or somesuch), Noctis (Mystic Knight) and Clive (Summoner).

>>738588745
Tidus asks so many questions about how the world work they make fun of it when Lulu just starts explaining something to him without him even asking. Tidus questioning everything is literally an integral part of the plot because it's Auron's way of making everyone else start questioning why the world is the way it is without directly influencing them.

>>738589140
Noctis is as much a summoner as Clive. In fact probably more, because in their world he’s the only person on the planet who can perform genuine summonings.

>>738589618
But his signature ability is the blade teleport and Unlimited Blade Works with which he beats the Summons, whom he decisively doesn't even consciously Summon, they come to his aid on their own.

>>738589250
His perspective is also the one that frames Spira for us, forcing us to evaluate Spira from an angle that challenges the worldview of other characters.
He’s a key contributor to the story, both metatextually and in-universe.

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>>738578376
>Tanned
>Buff
>Jock
>Outgoing
>Drowning in underage pussy
It's a wonder why a bunch of vidya nerds would dislike him.

>>738589839
It is conscious summoning (you have to initiate it manually), but the FFXV gods are huge assholes and they can decide to just not bother when they find it inconvenient.

>>738578287
>Didn't played 16 but Clive seems design wise very plain, especially considering that he was influenced by the success of GoT.
Clive is actually pretty cool and is one of the better parts of 16. Still not a great game overall though

>>738578179
>shitty character
>shitty game
>soccer player

>>738578782
>being needlessly cruel to his teammates
English Squall is a fan fiction rewrite

>>738578376
People just want le brooding cool guy with no personality. Final Fantasy fans essentially just want the protagonist of every game to be Shadow the Hedgehog. Tidus had a personality, actually develops over the course of the story, and even displays positive emotions and optimism sometimes. Naturally, this confuses and upsets Final Fantasy fans.

>>738590189
>(you have to initiate it manually)
Yes for in real life gameplay reasons, but that's not really what's happening, if you look at it thematically.

>>738590389
that's bullshit because other popular heroes are Zidane, Locke, and Balthier, all of which are nothing like the gay retarded shit you propose

>>738589250
>they make fun of it when Lulu just starts explaining something to him without him even asking
They're not making fun of it. That part shows that Lulu has been convinced that Tidus has been telling the truth the whole time about being from Zanarkand. For as much as retards complain about Tidus being "whiny," he's literally the one and only character in the game (aside from Jecht) who isn't. Every single person in Spira is a total defeatist, convinced that it is futile to try to change any of the cycles of failure they repeat, until Tidus comes along and says
>Fuck that, you can succeed if you just stop feeling sorry for yourself
And then they do. He's got one of the most positive attitudes of any FF character. Tidus gets everyone to reevaluate their way of thinking, and Lulu starting to believe him is part of that.

>>738590762
Locke is pretty Shadow the Hedgehog, just the overshadowed SA2 one. Also Locke and Balthier aren't protagonists, the expectations for which were discussed. Popular party members can be whatever, but it's a pretty compelling case, that, like he said, the protagonists need to be Shadow the Hedgehogs.

I personally don't agree though. The girl protagonists need to be genki and the guy protagonists need to be competent.

>>738580745
Nah it’s lighting

>>738580793
Lighting since her game was shit

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Remake Cloud is way worse.


*grunts*

>>738578376
People relate to him since in the start he feels like he will never leave the shadow of his own father. Most anons here are pretty much societal trash as well so they will never escape that shadow.

>>738578179
why is he standing in the water like an idiot?

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>>738578179
the WoL from XIV is definitely up there

>>738588823
See >>738578421
It's cos he's the best.

The monkey guy from 9.
FF16

>>738588823
9 and to a lesser extent 8 just generally get overshadowed by 7 and 10. Not necessarily because they're worse but because the latter two are some of the most iconic games of their time.

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>>738593472
They wouldn't get overshadowed if they were any good.

>>738578179
Only Zidane is better.

>>738578376
>be 16
>hear about people playing ff7
>be familar with cloud
>get a ps2
>get the latest final fantasy X
>wtf this isn't cloud. this is a whiney bitch

>>738588823
It's not shit. The last third of the game is just unfinished and they steam the story to completion.

>>738578376
He manages to both be a jock but without the chad charming energy of a jock. So he's both unrelatable and whiny. Actually a decent character but not a great protagonist.