Beginning of the story>Look at the shitty lives these people have, losing their loved ones every year, we gotta break this cycle and give them a happy lifeEnding of the story>Fuck these paint world people, they're not even real, who cares that you lived with them for years, just kill them all, only le family matters
>>738602246Your opinion should change with additional information, if you have a rational mind.
>>738602246I picked verso just so maelle suffers
>>738602246This game's story is pure retardation
>>738602246One of my favorite prologues in a game ever with one of my least favorite endings in years. It's up there with Mass Effect 3 for me in terms of taking, "For those who come after," and making it, "Shit on what came before."
>>738602246she cute
I wrote every previous post and I'm trans, btw
I ended up caring a lot for Renoir's plight and Verso's existence is pure hell.
>>738602893I sympathized more with Painted Renoir and that's after he killed my best bro
>>738603104Painted renoir was forcefully made into a simp by aline, better off dead.
>>738602246I never cared about a single character throughout the entire game
If you prioritize the well-being of strangers above family, you're severely defective
>>738603390I had infinitely more reason to care about Lune and Sciel after traveling with them than any of the assholes committing genocide.
>>738603536They're fucked either way. With Maelle, they get a few more years in a worse world than before as Maelle slowly goes insane or the painters invade again to force her out before she kills herself
>>738603353schizo
>>738603908But it's only fucked because Renoir and Verso forced the situation into being an all-or-nothing ultimatum in the first place. Her family decided that the best thing for her was to let Maelle live an entire other lifetime with a family that actually cares about her before forcing her to repeatedly watch them get brutally murdered in front of her.
>>738602246>Fuck these paint world people, they're not even real, who cares that you lived with them for years, just kill them all, only le family mattersIs that what people take from the ending when they say there's a good end and a bad end? If you can sympathize with Lune at all how can you think that's the point of Verso's ending?
>>738604658Renoir had no other choice if he wanted to save his wife's life.
>>738602246its called perspective. Sure at the start you feel somewhat remorseful over the peoples shitty predicament but then it turns out the entire thing was just a painting and they were given life in the first place over some rich fucks getting stoned in front of paint. Nigga the people in the canvas are just blobs of figment, its equivalent to retards getting invested in ai chatbots.
>>738602246The point is that the player is a higher dimensional being than the painters and therefor what the retarded family wants doesn't matter. The canon ending is Maelle's.
>>738604658>But it's only fucked because Renoir and Verso forced the situation into being an all-or-nothing ultimatum in the first place.That was Aline and later Alicia. Neither Renoir nor Verso want to destroy the canvas. They just want to save their family with Verso also wanting to die afterwards. Renoir even says this much. If Aline and Alicia could be reasonable, there'd be no need to destroy the canvas.
>>738605295You can make the same argument if you believe in any creator. None of our lives matter if god exists and we are just their creation.
>>738604936Get a therapist and stop letting your children create entire worlds of sentient life that you plan to throw away once they get bored with them. Painters are crazy.
>>738605315>umm you need to sympathize with the demiurge because fake people can feel or something
>>738605651They make it pretty clear that the canvas is destroyed the second that Maelle is pushed out of it. She's basically forced to stay there at gunpoint if she doesn't want to watch Lune and Sciel die again.
>>738602246REFORM THE CANVAS !
>>738602574I voted MAGA so fuck off
Really going to get random derailposts in all threads now?
>>738605868The children's world only had the silly fun creatures that loved to fight and didn't fear death or even worry about it at all. The sentient painted ones who feared death were painted by Verso's mom in mad grief
>>738605954If Maelle and Eileen could get their shit together, the painting could live. Nobody wants to destroy it, Renoir just has no other choice if he wants to save his wife, and now his daughter
>>738605954Again, that's only because Aline and Alicia can't let go. Renoir doesn't want to destroy it if he has a choice. He explicitly says this.>MaelleHer name is Alicia. Maelle died at the end of act 2. Calling her Maelle is equivalent to calling a tranny a woman.
>>738606453She prefers to be called Maelle.
>>738606421But then you get the question of why not keep the canvas locked up somewhere, they are a wealthy family and seeing as how Aline is the head of the painters council I would assume they have at least some friends that can relate and possibly might have dealt with similar things before. Renoir goes as overboard as Aline
>>738606480Yes. That's one of the main signs of her being mentally ill and delusional.
There should have been a dlc for for post ending where Verso comes back from the grave from sheer rage and kicks the every loving shit out of his real mom for being a cunt to their family and then just looks at the rest, tells them to fuck off, grow up, commit war crimes against the writers then promptly turns to ash again.
>>738606528On the other hand, with her being the head of the council, they can't just tell anyone that she went nuts and started huffing paint or ask for help. That would get her demoted at best and the entire family expelled at worst.
>>738606528They did hide it, Alicia hid it from their mother and Clea was impressed by how well it was hidden. Aline still found it, painters can sense paintings or some shit it's not really explained. But it is shown that hiding it is not a solution. Plus with all this painting drama going on, their home is at risk of being fully destroyed by the writers which would destroy every painting in the house
>>738604658To be fair, it was her sister who peer pressured her into the painting and went “lol git gud” when she saw her struggling to handle it. Her mom didn’t even know she was in there, and her dad acted like a guardian angel when he found out she was there and actively tried to keep her out of danger.
I picked the Maelle ending because it made the most sense. I remember being a kid and my parents asking me to turn off my games. I never did and when they demanded I did I would tell them to fuck off. My mom was smart and didn't believe in disciplining a child so she understood it was in her best interest that I was left alone. One time my dad overreacted and unplugged my Xbox. I proceeded to trash his shit and grabbed a kitchen knife to hold at my throat telling them I would die than listen to them and me dying would be all their fault. They got divorced which was good, my dad proved he was a bad father that day. 20 years later and I am still home with mom who is making me hotpockets as we speak. Yeah, I'm that cool kid you would see in the CoD lobbies who called his mom a bitch openly.Anyways Maelle is right and fuck her family an alpha never let's others tell them what to do. Think twice before arguing with me, it never turns out well for my enemies.
>>738607475I'd fuck you like a dog in the street internet tough guy wannabe bitch.
>>738607475>least mentally deranged aliciafag
>>738607742Heh>*Pushes glasses up meme*You made me laugh at the absurdity. Congrats, not many could do that. Just in case you actually believed such a ridiculous notion I think it's best to warn you anyone who stood in my path of my ambitions has never made the same mistake twice.
>>738602246Beginning of the story>Look at the shitty lives these people have, losing their loved ones every year, we gotta break this cycle and give them a happy lifeEnding of the story>Aline get your dumb ass out of the fucking painting. Alicia, get the fuck out as well. You two dipshits are literally torturing the childlike remnant of Verso's soul and it's going to kill you fucking both in the end. Yes it's sad. And yes it's shit, but holy fuck come on. Alicia, you can literally just recreate your friends via your fucking memories in another canvas you dumb fuck. It'll still be them because they are literally just fucking Chroma.
Discounting the people of Lumiere is the most braindead take people have with this game. There is a very specific reason you start with them, their struggles, their suffering, their mission. You are supposed to care about them but each act reveals more information about them, their place in the world, the world itself and its creators. The ending is meant to be painful precisely because they are stuck in a family feud of the gods.
>>738607742>I'd fuck you like a dog in the streetAnon... Please explain what you mean by this?
>>738608169Cool then give us a ending where maelle grows up and stops fucking with their world
>>738608232Aline, Renoir and Clea did it too. That is the point, the entire family just kept making it worse because they are total mental cases. At the end none of the family can trust each other to leave it alone.
>>738608370That is why destroying it is the best option
>>738602246Yeah, the story falls off a cliff in Act 3 and requires you to only care about the Dessendres. Lune, Sciel and everybody else stop being characters and are tossed aside because it would be inconvenient to LE DRAMA for them to have a voice or any agency. The problem for me as someone who grew up watching Star Trek is that it did all these moral dilemmas way better and came to rational conclusions, rather than just bombarding you with crying and shouting to force you into an emotional decision.
>>738605954The only reason why that's the case is because Aline refuses to let go and is quite literally killing herself.
https://x.com/Mangalawyer/status/2053548006213915123Well shit I guess we are going full mask off now
>>738608589There should’ve been an ending where the painting people rise up and defeat the family.
>>738608090>Alicia, you can literally just recreate your friends via your fucking memories in another canvas you dumb fuck. It'll still be them because they are literally just fucking Chroma.You didn't even pay attention during the game. Maelle specifically says that she can't recreate people the way she did Sciel and Lune if the Chroma is old. Monoco also explains this when Noco dies. You can create a new being that might LOOK like the dead person, but they won't actually be the same person. Which also means that during Maelle's ending the "Gustave" we see is just a recreation that Maelle made to make herself feel better.
I destroyed the painting because everyone already got gommaged and reformed anyway. There is nothing to say they simply couldn't have been reformed in a world that wasn't fractured and actively dying
>>738608493What? You're still supposed to care about them, it's sad and tragic because they're fucked no matter what and never should've been made in the first place
>>738608661Impossible. The painted people can be erased, altered, brainwashed, or literally anything else that the painters can imagine, at any time
Maelle literally got verso killed sorry you have to live with the consequences of your actions and can’t live in fantasy land in a painting. Also it’s her fault that the painting people are all doomed for her actions so add that to the list of people she fucked over.
>>738608927I mean we kicked aline's and renoir's ass just fine
>>738608740>>738608819Yeah people argue for the Maelle ending as though it will save everyone. Ignoring all the other problems with Maelle going insane and that she's the weakest painter, aside from all that, everyone is already dead in both endings. Maelle just creates new people (with the exception of Sciel and Lune who are more genuinely "reborn") just to suffer
>>738608645Devs know her name is a sure way to kill your game. That's why with Slay the Spire 2 her name was added to the credits via update AFTER the launch period.
>>738608978It's practically shoved in your face that they are both SEVERELY weakened by the constant 'war' between them.
>>738608493>everybody else stop being characters and are tossed aside because it would be inconvenient to LE DRAMA for them to have a voice or any agencyconsidering Maelle recreates them specifically as soldiers in her war and it's been established that painters make/remake people based on their own bias regarding that person, you can easily read it as Maelle objectifying her dead friends and puppeteering their corpses around while making them say the things she wants to hear.
>>738608645What work did she even do on slay the spire? I haven’t followed the situation at all.
>>738608978Thanks to Verso and Gustave's magic device. But the painters could just erase him and that thing if they wanted to. Only Verso and Alicia have true, unalterable agency
>>738608493This
>>738609092Aline sure, Renoir seems to have been chilling since he was locked away by her. He's way stronger than her at that point in time at any rate, and by his own admission Aline is supposed to be the stronger of the two.
>>738602246>Escapism LE BAD!!!!1!!>now go back to being a literal cripple with permanent incurable and highly painful nerve damage etc.>what? you're a tetraplegic who can't even feel his dick anymore? lol just to go therapy or something lol
It doesn't matter what ending you chose because when Clair Obscur 2 comes out it will be revealed the Germans have conquered France and are mass producing canvases with the greatest focus on efficiency in order to make up for the lack of colonial resources they suffer from compared to the Russians and the Brits.
wtf is the writer and painter war?
>>738609316>no you don't understand, I NEED to consume this hard drug that makes my mental health deteriorate>engaging responsibly and in moderation ? No, no, that's literally impossible
>>738608493>The problem for me as someone who grew up watching Star Trek is that it did all these moral dilemmas way better and came to rational conclusions, rather than just bombarding you with crying and shouting to force you into an emotional decision.Not the best example since the writers flat out forgot Moriarity after his season six appearance. They trapped his ass in a cube and never mentioned him again. It's implied the cube was lost or wiped clean between the TNG movies.
>>738609316Verso never said that she couldn't create more painted worlds to exist and not be a cripple in, just that using his was unhealthy and unfair to the poor child's soul that kept the thing running.Let the dead rest in peace
>>738608493the fact that you think the story is about a moral dilemna means it basically flew over your headstick to star trek I guess.
>>738609460Maelle has incurable nerve damageShe's in constant physical pain, can't talk, even breathing hurts to herThere is literally no life outside the painting to herNormies without any sort of true chronic, incurable physical issue will never be able to have empathy and understand what that's liket. permanent nerve damage in my lower backI'd do opioids every day if I could because my quality of life improves tremendously under something like daily tramadolOnly reason I don't is because docs keep forbidding it but they aren't the cunts that have to go through this daily
>>738609658Maybe she shouldn’t have betrayed her family in the first place
>>738609658Maelle is free to make another painting in which she can live a more bearable life while still coming out to rest her body and soul occasionally. It would have the added benefit of not torturing the soul of her dead brother.
>>738602246Both endings are shit and the same one at the end. The true final choice is picking between continuing the game with all the content + Free DLC or just stopping. Also we don't know if Renoir told the truth, he's just controlfag
Why on earth would anyone sympathize with some depressed dude that lies to everyone 100x over an actual physically disabled girl whose life is destroyed to the point where even breathing hurts?Depression is fixable, what she has is not, it's hell.
>>738610213she does not need to torture the depressed man to life a more comfortable life. She can make another painting. The reason she chose this one has literally nothing to do with her wounds and everything to do with her inability to accept her responsibility in his death.
>side with the writers and sellout your family get burnt and kill your brother in the process>family rightfully hates you for itYeah no sympathy from me
>>738610213so if epstein was actually a little girl with nerve damage in higher reality layer you'd be cool with his pedo parties?
>>738602246For me it was consistent, I always wanted to save the innocent people in the canvas, from beginning to end. The story gave me an insight in the motivations of the antagonists but nothing changed for me.
>>738609459a meaningless plot device, probably a relic of a previous iteration of the story that was severely trimmed down
ENSEMBLE DANS LE NOIR
>>738609525There are plenty more.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFNbTnFHruIThat scene happens to perfectly BTFO the argument that the painted people aren't "real" and as such don't matter.>>738609606>the fact that you think the story is about a moral dilemna means it basically flew over your headThat fact that you think that's what I was saying means my post flew over YOUR head, you dumb fuck. The story's problem is that it ISN'T about a moral dilemma. The writer doesn't care about the painted people. Their plight is tossed aside in favour of cheap melodrama between what are essentially gods with the power to create life, and their lives are weighted as meaningless by comparison. The's the entire reason why it fucking sucks as a story. I hated all of the Dessendres by the end and didn't give a shit about what happened to any of them, yet there's no option to side with Lune or Sciel or anyone else. "Pick a dipshit" is the only option you get, and in that case it simply HAS to be Maelle because it's the only way you don't kill thousands of sentient beings.It's complete slop and sidesteps any and all wider questions in favour of soap opera-tier conflict. No noble option where it's agreed that Verso or Maelle SHOULD sacrifice their happiness (and even their very life if necessary) to give the painted world and its people a future. Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - or the one. At least if you're in a story not written by and for midwits.
Real Verso: sacrifices his life to save his sisterFake Verso: sacrifices his sister's life to save himselfAt least Alicia got partial revenge by going out on her own terms and refusing to say goodbye
>>738610846Further proving that you didn't really get it, while adding that you don't know what melodrama means.
>>738610374She's allowed him to age, there's no reason why he can't find family and live his life through like normal now
>>738611002Why does she get to make that decision for him ?
>>738609658She can still create and visit other paintings. She just can't be allowed to destroy herself and torture all the "living" things in her dead brother's world>>738610507It's insane how badly you need my cock. Everyone dies in both endings, Maelle's world just extends their suffering as she quickly goes insane and becomes a monster paintress
>>738610846They really don't teach media literacy in American schools huh
>>738610846>I hated all of the Dessendres by the end and didn't give a shit about what happened to any of themSame but I rationalized it being insanity caused by attachement to the painting. renoir explicitly talks about it, about not forgetting whats real and whats fake. players hate dessendres because they "forgot" theyre real after spending so much time in the painting.
>>738610846>It's complete slopIf it were complete slop you wouldn't be still assmad about it 12 months later.Time to face the facts that it was masterful storytelling
why is multiverse in ff7 le bad and fake world in e33 le good. there's zero stakes in both of them
>>738611562Well written characters and world in e33, silly jap tropes in final fantasy.
>>738611061Why does he get to decide for everyone to destroy the canvas? They're all hypocrites, all wrong and right, I simply think she's in the more sympathetic position.
>>738603536>caring about some adulterous whore who fucks Verso even after she knows her husband is coming back
>>738606453>You don't want to leave so I'm going to hold a gun to the heads of people you love and murder them the second that you agree to leave, to ensure that you're increasingly beyond desperate to never leave.
>>738608169Here's the problem with your argument: Every single person in Lumiere is dead at the beginning of Act 3. Their struggles are over. They are dust on the wind. They no longer factor into anything. And for the rest of the creations in the painting, they are either creations of Verso and want what he would want, or creations of Clea and Renoir and they want the painting to be destroyed.
>>738608493Much like others, you are seeing a moral dilemma where there is none, and disregarding facts that don't suit your narrative. All the Lumerians are dead. Sciel and Lune were, maybe, resurrected by Alicia, but more likely just xeroxed very well. Aline and Alicia both will not give up the painting. Renoir has tried, by his own admission, to prevent Aline multiple times before the events of the game, to keep her from the painting. There is no clean, bullshit, Star Trek moral dilemma that can be solved with calm rationality. You have a desperate father on one side, a grief addicted junkie on the other, and a self-centered, pity party throwing narcissist on yet another side.
>>738608169The problem is that I want an ending where the painted folk can tell the people genociding them to fuck off and die. The Dessendres are treated like they're all that matters in the final choice, while the people we were actually given time to care about from Lumiere aren't even given a line of dialogue in either ending.
>>738602246The ending of this game is a like a shitlib test
>>738608493Expedition 33 has the idea of two good stories mashed together and it ends up hurting them both. So regardless of the fact that the Dessendres outside of Maelle are barely developed and only really brought in at the eleventh hour, they're given all priority in the discussion of the final choice and that sucks.
>>738602246This but unironically
>>738612359Her romance starts in Act 2 dipshit. And even then it's just a fling.
>>738606280>The sentient painted ones who feared death were painted by Verso's mom in mad griefgood point
>>738612857Are Trumptards still posting this thinking it makes them look good? Surely they've had time to read what the criteria of the study actually was, right...?
>>738613161>blumpf out of nowhereObsessed & obese
>>738602246That is not what it is lol. It is more like:>Is it right to keep a main trapped in eternal suffering to save the lives of others?>How healthy is escapism? Is it giving those with intolerable lives a chance for happiness? Or is it simply retreating into your own mind to avoid responsibility?>Do you have the right to do something against someone's will if it saves their life? Or should you let them live their life however they choose?>France fucking sucks
>>738613161>tens of billions of dollars worth of fraud in Minnesota from Somali migrants>hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fraud in California from a different group that consistently votes for liberal policiesthink of the heckin children though I guess, fuck borders and shit bring the scammers in whitey doesn't need that money anyways, better that every country looks like a third world hellhole with no human rights than if white people can live without scams 24/7
>b-but Maelle can still create new paintingsYeah but it's not the same when she's literally bonded to the people she connected during a literal 16 year old full life inside the painting
>>738615119Cool, I don't really care. Bonding with the painted is something that literally all painters do except maybe Clea who keeps her head about her at all times.
They aren't real, you aren't "killing" anybody
Versos biggest mistake was letting Gustave die.He was probably the only one who could have convinced Alicia to leave on her own because there’s no way that Gustave would’ve let her rot away in the Canvas if he knew what was going on
>>738617726What definition are you using for real here?
>>738618378they're inside a painting niggaclankers aren't real either
>>738618054Gustave would let Alicia decide herself, just like he does when he lets her join the expedition.
>>738602246Act 1 is told from Gustave's point of view. Act 3 is told from Alicia/Verso point of view, neither of whom give any semblance of a shit about the painted people.
>>738618416So because they live inside a magic world they are not real. Is that how you reason when you read about Narnia and Oz as well?
>>738618426He was constantly trying to talk her out of it, and atleast that was something positive for her assuming they didn’t get slaughtered. But they did get slaughtered and Gustave who has always been about the mission is willing to almost give it up to make sure she is safe. If he knew that by being in the canvas she is literally killing herself he would not be ok with that. And he was the one who could’ve convinced her to leave
>>738618481Alicia doesn't care about her friends? Did you just skip past all the dialogue and cinematics?
>>738618601He would definitely be ok with her saving their world and staying with them rather than helping the man who killed everyone.
>>738618610No, Alicia very clearly does not actually care about the painted people as anything other than their new god. She cares about Verso, everyone else is literally replaceable.
>>738609402It’s obviously going to be about the writers
>>738618527they don't simply live inside a magic world they quite literally are not real, they are simulated by magicno different to ai
>>738602246The game is an idiot check, it reveals the "secret" from the very first frame of the game when you control the protagonist. >"Oh it looks like a painting"
Escapism bad (except when it's good)
>>738618696More than likely he would try to find some compromise to make sure the canvas survives while getting the family to leave.He literally created a device that allowed him to alter the fabric of the canvas as a painted being, so with proper help from the painters I think he would’ve been able to find some way to make sure everyone gets what they want.
I view it from a utilitarian standpoint, even if the people were real.>Discover you are essentially a god>You can create pocket dimensions like its nothing>But something is corrupt about this one and slowly driving you insane/killing you>You can either die there, or escape and go on to create countless other worlds with countless people in themI know I know, mathing out people is dark stuff. But it makes sense.
>>738619332>Get one over on your demiurge>They get all pouty and abandon you
>>738610473Yes, and I would like to be raped by little Jeffrieny EpsteinUnironically
>>738610846And then Data kills himself but oops he backed himself up in B4 and ends up "killing" B4 anyway as he comes back as Data.Also Lore is in there too because reasons.Measure of a Man got BTFO by everything else that followed Data's existence.
