...You HAVE been learning Japanese for untranslated VNs and JRPGs, right Anon?
no i'll never learn japanese. i don't even know english
still in anki hell
go back to your general tranny
>>738614708No, I've mostly been learning it for translated ones, I'm pretty much a normalfag, just don't care for the translations.still heta af though
>oh my god le space alien language!! impossible to learn dude ignore the 120 million native speakers!!!remember, this mentality is why you will never make it. n1 btw
>>738614849You do realize there isn't an anki prerequisite right? You can do literally anything else, after, before, while doing anki.
proud /dsg/ member herehere's my n4 certificate. I'm officially CERTIFIED in japanese!! n3 coming up soon
>>738615010i meant /djt/ fuck me
I got to N3 then realised I appreciate the sound and feel of English more than Japanese.Japanese has some concepts and constructs that I understood, but still found completely retarded.
>>738614708waiting for EXTRAVAGANZA to get translated. there has to be SOMEONE else who likes bug fucking
>>738614708I learnt enough to read my japanese VNs and now i dont read VNs anymoreAlso what people dont tell you is that if you stop consuming or better yet, if you stop engaging with the japanese language you will end up forgetting everything>>738615010>N4You retards just want to lose money in these certificates, at least start from N2 which is piss easy.
>>738614970on a serious note, i do anki everyday as the "minimum requirement" vs doing nothing at allmy main issue right now is i feel don't have enough vocab to read a simple manga/text while also not having the grammar to understandif that make sense
>>738614708Nope, instead I worked around 90 hours last week. Kill me, Pete.
>>738614708Most of the games I play in Japanese already have official English translations. It's just more fun to play games while learning a language.
>>738615325>You retards just want to lose money in these certificatesumm. n4 allows me to move to japan. n2 is just a bonus that gives you access to daijob
>>738614708>learning Japanese for untranslated VNs and JRPGsWhy in the world would I do that?
>END FASCISM!
>>738615454>Moving to a country that is going to shit>Moving to a country where they use foreigners as boogeyman for everything bad that happens to themWell now i get why you unironically wasted money there, you are retarded.
>>738614708>learningI just play games, like I suppose by playing more games I also learn more of the language but my primary goal is playing more games, not learning.
>>738614708I stopped halfway there.Was already able to read manga kinda well but there are a few reasons I stopped.1.Getting raw content can be hard depending on what you want.2.Jap games are getting worse and Lewd games are Gacha only now.3.AI will do it for free
>>738614708I've been learning Japanese for translated ones.
>>738615709>not wanting to be a powerful boogeyman in a foreign country
>>738614708START FASCISM
>>738614708I gave it a shot but after a couple months of using Anki and studying Genki, I got burnt out and have very little to show for it outside of knowing Hiragana and Katakana.
I'm playing grorious Gyakuten Saiban as Buddha intended. It's funny how Naruhodo was about to call cowboy man an alien before he switched to "foreigner".
>>738616262(and it's doubly funny because in the EN localization he's treated as a weird roleplayer for the cowboy getup, here he's treated like "an american", implying that all americans are just like that in their eyes)
chat what's your daily routine? i do 20 anki cards in the morning, and then i do at least an hour of LN reading later in the day
>>738615709>Moving to a country that is going to shit>Moving to a country where they use foreigners as boogeyman for everything bad that happens to themBut enough about the United States of Israel.
>read untranslated vns NOW!bitch which ones? everyone says this then never gives suggestions
>>738616262Why yes I am an alien
>>738614708no, why would i do that? is there going to be a lot of money in it?
>>738617739what money is there in you posting here
>>738614708No, I have evolved past that phase and now ai translate them with tools like Bepinex or Lunatranslator
>>738614708hai sensei
>>738617739Haha no, translation itself can be replaced with AI, editing and localization still need people currently.
>>738616851Just play yuzuge or whatever.
>>738615709>Moving to a country where they use foreigners as boogeyman for everything bad that happens to themMention one single country that doesn't do this. Even African countries like South Africa and Nigerians do this with people from Zimbabwe, Cameroon and Sierra Leone "stealing jobs" and "bringing criminals" and "illegals overstaying in their country. Even fucking Indians do the same complains with Nepalis and Bangladeshis, which in turn say the same thing about the Muslims from Myanmar.
how hard is mtl'ing a VN?i'm trying to read caucasus while also practicing nip
>>738618285not hard at all, you need textractor which hooks to the game, that extracts the jp text and you forward it to the MTL of your choice, local models, google translate, whatever you want it's highly customizableor use one of those premade packages like a sugoi translatorIt's been few years since I last had to use MTL so this may not be the latest and greatest but it worked for me
>>738614708ill take machine translation over any translator slop any day of the week
>>738618564thanksi'll try researching more on how it works
>>738614708Already did, and now I'm reading an untranslated PG-13 PS2 visual novel with zero reviews on VNDB and it's actually good. Are you proud of me, anon?
>>738618285https://files.catbox.moe/b8cf1y.mp4This is translated by AI with two different tools, I could turn off the english and go back to the japanese with a keypress, or for the VN parts just ask lunatranslator to display both the english and japanese
Cure dolly or Tae Kim?
I prefer LNs for mining, greater text density and I don't have to be at my home pc. Still read VNs for a wider vocab mix
>>738618907interesting>lunatranslator thanks will check it out
>>738619026Cure Dolly is no longer a good source to learn Japanese grammar. Tae Kim is still very good, so choose that
>>738619701>Cure Dolly is no longer a good source to learn Japanese grammar.nta but how so?
>>738619026I understood Dolly much better, personally. It's been a long time since I read Tae Kim but I think his explanation for what the は particle does sounded like magic bullshit.
>>738615454nigga you can live in Tokyo by just knowing English, you don't need jack shit for JLPT score, and getting an N4 certificate is just a waste of money, you can fucking diagnose an N4 on your own. Anything other than N2 or N1 is just wasting money and time
I am a japanese master
>>738614708Why would I was my time with that dogshit language? Learn chinese instead.
>>738619884>don't_learn_chinese.jpg
>>738614849I've been playing games in nip for a while now and I still use Anki everyday and have about 5k new words in my backlog.Anki hell never really ends.
Can you give me a first few month starting point? I don't know how to start learning jap. It's all so overwhelming without someone to talk to. I don't think there are any college courses nearby teaching it either.
>>738619954>newfag wasnt there when the guy behind that pasta admitted that he made it all up and had never even been to china
>>738620128just do anki bro. it's so easy
>>738620127what's your routine before you start playing nip games?
>>738619785 You can check the archives about all the schizo shit that she's in if you're interested in that The main issue with Cure Dolly is that it's full of really bad mistakes that show she doesn't really understand Japanese (not just the explanations, but the example sentences too). Just as an example, people bring it up as a way to explain the meaning of some sentences without really understanding them and it often interferes with intuition when you come across stuff like Xが好き vs Xを好き. She argues about が being the necessary subject which is the core of her zero が reasoning. She also doesn't believe in the dual が sentences (also because of "each sentence always has one が, even if hidden/unsaid")She has a bunch of explanations that break down easily if you have ever read any native Japanese but she kinda pretends that doesn't exist.If you want a good grammar guide, we have better options now.>If you want to readyoku.bi>If you want to watch/listen in the backgroundJapanese Ammo with Misa (Grammar Lessons for Absolute Beginners)
>>738620128>itazuraneko and gohoneko both goneI was going to recommend you either, but what the hell
>>738620128just start here, at least>https://realkana.com/study/
>>738620128learnjapanese.moe
>>738620128>>738620286https://djtguide.github.io/index.htmlThe cat has moved here now.Also, I heavily recommend trying to find a language school instead of studying alone, because of speaking skills, but technically the website above does teach you nonetheless.
>>738620242A lot of Anki and reading grammar books until I bit the bullet and just started reading a VN.
>>738620128Find katakana / hiragana stroke order chartsWrite each character 100 timesRead Genki or some other beginner textbookMake an anki deck with every word you find in VNs, animes, games, etc. include the sentence for extra context, maybe an image tooReview anki decks daily
Anyone here ditched Anki at some point? it's boring to me, I prefer to brute force my way through reading
>>738620242So first, I drink my coffee(instant, 2 tbsp), then I boot up my Pc and run a program i made(vibe coded) that extracts all the words from the game's dialogue and adds them to anki(usually around 7000 unique ones), then i grind through them in a few days(4 hours a day), i usually know about 80% already so those are very fast. Then im left with about 1400 words i dont know which i then continue to grind for a couple seasons. I usually do 10 words a day, anymore and I get overloaded and start forgetting stuff. And after that, I can finally start gaming in peace without having to look up anything.
>>738620585i might start playing old JP pokemon games or read yotsuba to start, but i think i need to be familiar with the grammar at the very least just to start
>>738620261i sure hope your image isn't supposed to prove your point
>>738620664>readingngmireading is for fluent people, it's just too slow compared to listening. in the time it takes you to read one sentence you could've been listening to 5 native sentences. 20 if you encounter a word you can't read.
>>738620689naruhodo so it's a mining for a deck, right?
>>738620803i don't get ithow would you get jp gains by just listening to words you don't understand?
>>738620725Personally I found old pokemon games harder to read since they didn't use any kanji. Your best bet is probably an easy VN with as much voice acting as possible.
>>738620852riiiiiiiight
>>738620664Nah. I have a mature deck of >12,000 cards and with FSRS set at 0.8 right now I spend less than 5 minutes per day on all cards. When I encounter new or rare words I throw em in still. Why not? I read >30,000 文字 in a day on average and encounter one new word over the course of that. It's rare so ankidroning it is the only realistic way to increase exposure to stuff like that.
>>738614708Yes actually. I have Genki I textbook arriving in the mail in next few days
>>738620803But in Anki those words are taken out of context, they're isolated from a conversation, in VNs they have audio or I have google translate voice it out for me and if I see that word/sentence enough times I start to understand how it works from context alone. Worked a lot better for me than making a mining deck
>>738620128Ubisoft has you covered.
>>738620908you do kaishi or something as a supplement, as well as going through a grammar guide, but for immersion listening will serve you 10 times better than reading. I've just been listening to condensed anime and some nihongo con teppei here and there for 3h a day for the past 5 months and my gains have probably quadrupled compared to the previous year
what makes something "hard" vs "easy" to read?
>>738614708I've been learning Japanese to jailbreak local AI's, my skills in buckbreaking Chinese compliance bots that first say "no I can't enjoy or deliver content about rape of nanjing in glorifying manner" into obedient Japanese bots who will do so and so much more: is... SS+ class. Having access to Japanese kanji knowledge helps as its less censored and tricks the AI into thinking you are a fluent in Japanese thus more likely to give up goods regarding Japanese glazing content. Funny shit. They still have some hardcoded external rules about not showcasing "rape" (related context) and offensive slang to feminists like "omanko."
>>738620985You can attach a picture, audio of the voice, and keep the entire sentence in the card though
>>738621076i see, do you have like a personal setup/processes when doing immersion listening?
>>738620128I have been learning the hiragana, also katakana, see >>738620975 once textbook arrives I will try to memorize phrases and concepts chapter by chapter. I don't need to be fluent just knowledgeable to understand things I come across
>>738621104Sentence structure, vocabulary, type of cadence.
The only advice you need is to practice the things you want to be better at. And being specific with these goals is better than being general. If you want to get better at reading, read more overall and also more variety. If you're reading and you don't understand a sentence because of some grammar, work on that specific pattern more. If you want to get better at listening, listen more. If you want to get better at speaking, speak more. If you want to get better at handwriting, handwrite more.Intentional practice of thing you want to improve at with focused corrections is how you improve at anything in any domain. It's not complex. It just takes time, effort, and discipline.
>>738620908Different people learn in different ways, some by reading, some by hearing and some by writing. There are probably tons of people who try learning japanese that don't know the best method of learning for them.
>doing my daily anki>see a kanji>"wait, why the fuck does it look different from what i remember?"it's all tiresome
>>738621104how much complex Kanji vs borrowed Katakana words/slang there is on the page versus common Hiragana and Simple Kanji.
>>738621332>Remembers only the English definitions and 50% accuracy for the kunyomi and 25% for the onyomi readings.I'm fucked for life.
>>738621310性欲 is for weak minds
>>738621076nigga what do you listen to. link it
>>738621438
For Anki I just use the sound decks, I cannot into kanji for the life of me.
you know you've made it when you realise the true devil is カタカナ英語, not 漢字
>>738620664I threw it away after 2 years, i managed almost 600 days in a row
>>738621104Same as any other language: vocabulary related to specialized topics and complex grammar, or the use of non-standard language like dialects and slang. In addition with Japanese you have kanji to worry about. Manga and VNs (that are dialogue focused) tend to be on the easier side since the vocabulary is usually simple and related to every day stuff, and people don't often speak long-winded monologues with complex sentence structure.>>738621419I'd suggest not to worry too much about readings especially in the beginning. If you can recognize kanji and full words and know how the basics work, the rest will come through repetition, e.g. media consumption with the use of dictionary software and Anki vocab decks. Self-made ones are good since you're learning the the vocabulary you're actually using in your hobbies.
>>738618564>>738618907mtlbrosi have a question, how complex is extracting the whole script from a vn and just mtl it?i heard it's a different method compared to text hooking, i think my gpu/cpu can handle italso i heard the text hook method might have problems when it comes to context, not sure how true though
>>738621554english in Katakana is what I do automatically, now when it comes to the real devil its French and German.
>>738614708good fun games to learn japanese?
>>738621502just search nihongo con teppei for beginner if you're a beginner. and for nihongo con teppei z if you're intermediate.for condensed anime audio, you just google that and download the tool that allows you to convert anime video files to condensed audio via time stamps from the srt. there's also an archive of condensed anime audio uploaded by others but I'm in bed phone posting right now and don't remember the site. I think it's linked on learn japanese moe though.just start with an easy anime like takagi san, flying witch or non non biyori and work your way up.
>>738621554It's annoying as shit to read yes. But it's ultimately whatever.
>>738621767Any moege / sol vn like Kanon, Clannad, etc.
>>738621662it would be easier to remember readings if the kanji were assorted by the way their sounds are performed so one could categorize them like one does other language symbols, for example "sei" becomes what? life? procreation? sex? type of way, that's the biggest hurdle and annoyance. I wouldn't care much about stroke counts/orders if the job is to get reading speed upgraded and the more one would get accustomed to seeing the kanji more easily they become written as well. Anyway, Most language learners don't learn the way Japanese do which is: first learn the spoken language, etiquette through hands on training, then learn to read and write as you grow up spending 5-7 years mastering the language and a foreign one on top. Foreigner learning Japanese is therefore completely impossible.
>>738621858aren't those already complex for a beginner?
>>738621843desu reading it isn't so bad, but when a fuck says 一種 but he was really saying イシュー it's fucked.
>>738621969If you're just starting, sure. I don't think there's anything you can get into with nothing outside of childrens games or things like that
>>738621969everything is complex for a beginner, that's why 99% of learners quit within a month.
>>738621969Anything that isn't learner material prepared for baby gaijin brains is "complex for a beginner". Moe SoL games are as unchallenging content as it gets for native material prepared for teen/adult audiences.
>>738621969go through the Cero age grading list for JRPG (the text heavy ones that are basically VNs + RP) games that interest you, if its under 12, you should be able to work through it with a dictionary.
>>738621705I don't know how to do that but when it comes to the MTL the whole thing you would still need to split it into small pieces though possibly paying would remove that restriction.I know currently there is still issues with getting genders correct and forgetting which version of a name it used but names can be fixed. Other than that there aren't any real issues.
>>738622042>>738622057>>738622136>>738622154okay so what's your usual "routine" back when you're still reading these VNs?i'm assuming if you encounter a word you don't know, you put them in a separate mining deck, then research the sentence to understand the whole message boxthe problem is, i can't copy and paste the whole box, so i'm pretty much reliant on google lens on my phone
>>738622335you are reliant rather than trying, you aren't even trying to do any thinking on the fly, that's the issue. Physical dictionary is how people worked through these things prior.
>>738622335Just go read one of the guides dumbass, every single mining deck template gives sentence cards.
>>738622335you're responding to different anons, I for one don't fuck with vns, I just do listening and watching chinese cartoons. Japanese subs are a crutch and that goes for vns as well. my routine is as simple as whenever I do something I would otherwise do in silence or listening to music I listen to Japanese instead. and when I go grocery shopping or have to run errands i also listen to Japanese 100% of the time. and yes your attention may drift at times but each new sentence is another opportunity to pay attention
>>738622484oh i didnt mean by using lens as a translatorits just so i can copy and paste the text and research the words being used
>>738621969Don't start with Clannad unless you have an autistic obsession with it, it's too long and you'll end up dropping it. Find something that's very short but seems interesting to you, then work your way up from there
>>738622620that's exactly the issue anon notice what I said:>Physical dictionary requires effort of looking through and being able to use said dictionary to find the relevant kanji through the particle and stroke order.That's the reason its there in that sentence motherfucker, use one instead of google and shit sticks to you better. If you can identify the particles and sounds they usually make, you are winning half the battle.
>>738615010who the fuck wastes money on an N4?>tripfagquestion asked and answered.
>>738620261Can you explain what do you mean by a dual ga sentence and how she does not believe in them?https://youtu.be/z9S2J8tlnUE?si=RF-hh1cFAfU844zDAt 13:17 she shows the sentence that could very well use double ga with her logic
>>738614708I've been struggling with kanji recognition for a while, so I started handwriting any kanji I encounter that I don't recognize quickly. It's helped a lot so far, and it gives me something to do with my hands while reading which helps keep me from getting distracted. Also it's fun. I recommend.>>738620725Yeah you're on the right track. Once you've got particles and some basic verb tenses down, just go for it. Yotsuba is a great starting point. Just remember that you're not going to understand 100% of it and that's okay! Just make a note of what you don't understand, look it up later, and keep it moving.
Do you guys know stroke order? If so, how did you learn it?
>>738617894none. why do you ask?
>>738624221why do you do it then
I'm still enrolled in university. Should I just register for a Japanese class?
>>738623672thanks anon
>>738624202Its the first lesson in any good course/dictionary for students when it comes to daily kanji use.>>738624281yes, just don't kill yourself.
>>738624202Just go through the stroke orders for any kanji you want to learn on Jisho. The order is the same for any particle between any kanji so you can learn each kanji faster the more you do>>738624281Depends on how good the teacher is. Typically they just slow walk you through the textbook and have everyone say the words over and over, self study can be faster if you have the motivation
>>738624407>>738624406Wish me good luck I'll try it during the Fall semester
>>738614708I learned kana from that 2 hour youtube video and stopped because I had no clue on what to do next
Not learning that dead dogshit language where native speakers can't even remember how to read the Chinese characters they stole unless they have context
>>738614708>You HAVE been learning Japaneseyes>for untranslated VNs and JRPGsnope, been playing exactly the same things I would've been playing if I weren't learning Japanese, just without the trannylations
i hope you get cannibalised, nigger!
>>738625128>Mog Japanese as Gaijin with furekusingu your N1 understanding.>What Japanese too hard for you? Only kids play on easy moodo! HAHAHAHAHA!IRL.
I only learned Japanese for the culture war against localizers. I'm a good internet soldier!
>>738624406>>738624407Did you do it on actual pencil or will it be fine with mouse?
>>738625070me too. i watched this video in early 2018 and mastered the kanas and then didnt know what to do so didnt touch japonese again until 2024 at which point i started ankihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p9Il_j0zjc
>>738614708Friend of mine learned japanese by playing untranslated VNs and now he lives in japan and has a pretty sweet job over there. Doesn't seem that hard to pull off.
>>738625128>can't remember how to read characters without contextEnglish basically works like this.
>>738625305I do it with a pencil.
>>738614708A little bit. I watched the Evo Hokuto No ken stream, and worked a little on some of the kanji they use for their special attacks.
>>738614708Engineer working for Jap corporation, fluent speaker and writer, N2 certification but probably can clear N1 without much trouble. > VNs and JRPGsI play games that have gameplay because I play games for the gameplay. I could be illiterate and would rather not play games than """play""" this garbage.
>>738625305Onajiku:>>738625369
Got assaulted by bunch of IRL shit right before finishing Genki II and the meme exercise websiteKanji + some Vocab already ankidron'dI can watch precure with jp subs, but that's it. Shit's grim.
>>738614708Its hard as shit, im too retarded to remember kanji.I kind of understand when spoken to but i cant read for shit.
>>738625549>Got assaulted>by bunchNigga, did you just admit you were raped by a group of men???
>>738625642Yes, life is hard man.
>>738614708reading manga with furigana. its pretty fun. might take me another decade to pair all the kanji with the 3k vocab i accumulated through tons of nip media consumption.
>>738625681I'm so sorry to hear that man
>>738618189based xenophobic world
>Hooking>AnkiYou didn't learn the language.
>>738618148>yuzugeworst of worst fucking garbage
>>738615345You're doing it wrong, you don't download random anki decks and study them. You find some type of midia and create your own deck with the vocabulary there, at first it will be kinda boring and a pain in the ass to stop and search for the word and add to you deck, but with time it will become natural.Anki will not help you with grammar, anki is mainly for Vocab, for grammar get a good book on it, or site, nowadays there are a lot of good sites that will help you learn the grammar in order, much like vocab with time it will become natural too.Key point: CONSUME SOMETHING IN THE LANGUAGE YOU WANT TO LEARN, only reading/studying it without using it will take you nowhere
>>738626103I'll be honest I just post about yuzuge because it never fails to make some retard seethe his ass off every time.
>>738614708Funny to see all the cope recently about "Oh, I gave up because of AI", or "Anki is too gruelling", etc. People that have no interest in learning a skill over years and just want a computer to do everything for them. Then you have morons like this >>738615010 at the other end of the spectrum, who think that their massive amount of effort leading to an infamously easy exam is proof of being "fluent".
>>738625923white person moving anywhere other than Thailand/Philippines: Hard Mode Triggered.
what are you guys playing in japanese?
>>738626217based troll.>>738626247Most Japanese use the computer and that's why they lost the Japanese writing autism skill from generations before. We aren't better than them.
>>738615345>i do anki everyday as the "minimum requirement" vs doing nothing at allYou're barely learning anything by doing Anki every day. It's a supplementary tool not something that you're supposed to learn from. It's basically equivalent to doing like 15 minutes of Duolingo lessons every day.
>>738626104>>738626343i mean yeah i know anki is supposed to be vocab-focusedbut just as picrel's advice, it's my "minimum" daily routine in a busy/lazy day as compared to doing nothing at alli also have a mini habit for drawing as well
>>738614708I learned Japanese mostly to read doujinshi, play nukige, and play weeb games. But the nukige scene is fucking dead nowadays and there's never anything good new to play, and most weeb games are all getting simultaneous English releases anyway so I feel like I've wasted my time. It is nice being able to play games without a localization script and knowing you're not losing anything, but I don't feel like I'm getting "my money's worth".
>>738626375Let me clarify my point, I think I went out of it, as a minimum instead of a quick Anki everyday, if you could choose one manga you like and translate 3 or 4 pages of the raw, watch the news or some type of Interaction in japanese.
>>738626375>>738626343wouldn't the best tool to "speed learn" kanji just go by reading type on a dictionary and gather as much "visual cues" to learn to tell what a kanji means and practice those ones for the day so it helps with confusion of character reading and meaning?
>>738620725Contrary to what a lot of people claim, Yotsuba is not a good "very first manga". It's better when you're just entering being intermediate and have a better understanding of the language basics. About the time when you are good enough to have an opinion of your preferred dictionary is the stage where you should be reading it.The reason for this is that while the text is extraordinarily simple since よつばちゃん is a child and everyone addresses her in a simple way as a result, there's an insane amount of malpropisms and also lots of "phonetic" spellings instead of "dictionary" spellings.
Is no one interested in speaking with Japs at all? Why most posts are anime, doujinshi, manga, etc?
>>738626675>Is no one interested in speaking with Japs at all?No, it's about escapism.
>>738626675I'm not interested in speaking with anyone
>>738626640I remember reading it when I was new and could follow along decently well despite being dogshit. What would you say is an actual good beginner manga then? I have a friend that just started but I don't really have anything to recommend him that wouldn't want to make him blow his brains out at this stage.
unironically my kanji learning strategy was not to do anki or any memorization it was just to read books with furigana until I recognized the kanji and didn't need the furigana anymore, and the more kanji you learn the easier it gets to just remember them. I'm now fluent with N1 but I've never used an anki deck once lol.
>>738626675I live in Japan, I talk to them everyday, that's plenty I don't want more of it.
>>738626572>if you could choose one manga you like and translate 3 or 4 pages of the raw, watch the news or some type of Interaction in japanese.okay, thankswill try it with an easy manga once i master some of the basic grammar
>>738626763>once i masterNTA but stop thinking like this. you will learn as you do things in the language
>>738626675unironically, anime and manga are a more accessible option compared to finding a japanese person to talk withalso you can do it every single day, if you want to
>>738625128English works exactly the same way, dumbassGaelic and Welsh too by the wayAll languages from or around Britain have extremely irregular phonics
>>738626849i get what you're saying and saying "master" felt like an overstatementbut reading a manga with absolute zero grammar knowledge at all feels counter-productive
>>738626849ignore this idiot, >>738626763: always think "Until", don't stop "Until" you get shit done. A goal gives a motivation towards which to work and a "reason for existing" within that difficult sea to navigate so yes, a goal oriented strategy is better than nothing in learning Japanese. Benefits?:- You will always be tracking your progress (am I progressing? I can tell by checking on the list.)- Am I doing things right? (You are getting feedback by improving slowly.)If you are not learning for N1 level, this is a good way to progress towards the same goal, there's not a single path that's "right" but there are efficient and less efficient paths to achieve the same thing. As a beginner a project is the best way to work on your skills.
>>738626675I speak with old people and children everyday>old people speak crazy dialectical Japanese>their grandchildren copy them
>>738627038>but reading a manga with absolute zero grammar knowledge at all feels counter-productiveYou just have to take the plunge and wing it at first.
>>738627038I learned English by playing games knowing nothing at all. Eventually I started knowing. And now I'm here. Just jump in and slog through until the friction decreases.
>>738627113im a total beginner but that sounds endearing. can you give some examples?
>>738627079thanks, anoni will still try to learn at least the most basics of grammar before reading an actual manga, just so i can understand how the structure worksas for now, my main goal is just to be able to read unTL'd games, vns, etc comfortably.
>>738615010can a N4 even read the nontranslated text?
>>738615010>>738615041あああああああDJTスレ!!逃げえええええええ!
>>738627380ok so basically old japanese people talk like this:>back in mine days, we had to walketh 10 miles to fetch water for mine family. y'all little whippersnappers don't know how good thou haveth itexcept in japanese
>>738627502maybe theyd be able to if they used a physical dictionary
>>738627648>can't even summon up old as japanese.Are you even trying with your larp anon-kun? Can't even go Lunatic Heian Mode yet from all anime and historical dorama? kek.
I passed N1 in 2016 and have been living in Japan since 2017.
>>73862738010分ばあ待っちゅうきはよう来や
>>738627776>>738627786Vocaloid?
>>738627776what, did you want me to write it in japanese? you said you were a beginner, so im not sure you would understand it even if i did
>>738627905I was expecting more "shamefuru dispuray" or something like an old sailor speech type of way of speaking and not that anon just messing with you.
>>738626217for good fucking reason, there must be something to it then
>>738626303Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
>>738626303Disaster Crisis AKA 絶対絶命都市
>>738626217I've never played a Yuzuge but I think they're cute, no idea what makes people seethe at them.
>>738628746They make money that the schizos think should be going towards their kamige of choice.
>>738628746cliche horrible boring story that chinks love for some reasonart is the best thing they got going for them so moebutas eat it up
I'm learning it so I can pretend to be japanese so weebs pick up my game when I drop it because>Thing japanis real
>Japanese thread>no one writing Japaneseくそスレ
>tfw I'm about to end my NEETdom and start a side gig of tutoring jap
If i study hard enough will i be able to be a localizer and earn money off my studies?
>>738629979>studyYou don't need to know Japanese to localize
>>738629296/v/の名無しは大分初心者だから。日本語を書いても意味がない。それを望むなら/int/に行けばいい。
>>738629979I don't think you need to know japanese to be a localizer
>>738629979localization will be dead in 10 years, localization will have ai translating everything and one editor checking it.
>>738629979are you good looking? I'm a localizer and I would need to study hard to pass N1, I just use google translate and people like me and that's it
>>738614708No. I've been learning it though, RPG's are just part of the reason why.And Fuck VN's, they are atrocious.
>>738630239Who do you think is training the AI's, idiot.The same people who've been ruining localizations for decades.AI translations will be worse than you can possibly imagine.
>>738629979You'll need really good qualifications to earn any decent money. Like a masters degree.
>>738614708I’ve been using Maneki Kanji to learn kanji. If you have an iPhone I recommend it. Most other apps I’ve tried suck
>>738629979Only if you're a tranny and/or a SEAmonkey.
>>738629296I'm only studying how to read in Japanese, I couldn't give less of a shit about writing or speaking in it.
Any recommendations for studying grammar?
>>738614708Been reading muramasa in jp. The swordfight in chapter 5 is SO dragged it surpasses togashi in terms of what he's usually memes for kek
>>738630694それな
>>738628420love that game, is it any good for very first jp game?
>>738620664Anki niggers are so tiring. These faggot grind for years and for fucking nothing.
>>738629296書くは難しい
you will never get the difference between それandこれ so why bother learning jap? just give up
>>738621076I feel like gains are invisible during listening so it's a hard thing to track, but at the same time, what kind of listening are you doing? I listen for four hours every day however I listen at work so oftentimes it fades into white noise. I just don't feel like I'm making any progress with listening. How can I stop it from being white noise and actively process it even when I'm doing something else? Also how do you look stuff up when you're listening? Seems hard.
>>738630357I'm not talking about quality, I'm just saying that AI translation is now good enough for everyone except the editor to be firedBut also, I highly doubt they're going to train their own models, they'll license something like chatgpt which has had infinitely more training from standard proper translations than it has from localizations
>>738631163*書くのは難しい
>>738631332one means here/there and the other means there/hereiykyk
>>738614708Burnt out a bit getting N4 last year, however I will say once you cross into N3 territory everything becomes much more enjoyable.
>>738631332This is one of the easiest things in JP
>>738631426"A writer says precisely what he means to."
>>738631332それ thatこれ this簡単なことさ
>>738631332これ = this (it's next to me)それ = that (it's at a medium distance from me)あれ = that (it's far away from me)
>>738631426*レスを書くのは難しい
>>738631615Almost, but not quite.これ = This (I'm holding or touching it)それ = This/That (You're holding it or touching it)あれ = That (Neither of us are holding it or touching it)それ can still mean "This".
>>738631332
>>738631332>>738631428>>738631615>>738631772u absolute buffoonsliterally the easiest thing in the entire language that even non learners know
>>738630983For your first game I'd recommend a VN with voice acting, but Mario is also easy enough to read.
I’m like whicked smaht I know how to use a calulator and I can learn some languages too
>>738614708My job has a bunch of free udemy courses that include Japanese, but im already in the "learn to draw" penis explosion chamber
>>738630140*/v/の名無しは大半初心者だから、日本語で書いても意味がない。そういうのを望むなら/int/に行けばいい。「大分」は副詞だから、名詞の「初心者」を直接修飾できない。「大半」みたいな名詞を使ったほうが自然
>>738631906any recommendations for va vn? ill start with that then go mario
I already passed N1 last year and it means nothing. It doesn't test writing and speaking, both of which you cannot master just via input. The amount of stuff you need to learn is absolutely massive if you want to be on the same level as a native.>Dialects and not just kansai-ben>Historical grammar and vocab>Slang>Jargon (anatomy, astronomy, chemistry, mathematics, martial arts...)
>>738632001Starless
>>738631992どうも…だろう。
>>738630864Bunpro.
>>738632057Who wants to be on the same level as a native, though? Seems like a non-issue.How many ESL speakers of English are on the level of a native? I've spoken to thousands of ESLs in my life and only one of them was so good at English that I thought they were native.Passing as native should never be the goal, as you will never BE native.The goal should be a high level of fluency, but obviously depending on your interests, your language palette will be less or more. For example, in my case I know that I'll always have a low level of scientific vocabulary, however that's also the case in English. I never did science at school and routinely hear scientific words on a daily basis that I don't understand. It's no different in Japanese, I'm not working/interested in science.What I do agree with is that JLPT (or any similar qualification) is a poor reflection of fluency. However I still think N1 is still a goal worth encouraging as it can give learners motivation during bouts of burn-out, intermediate blues, etc. It can be a good confidence boost too and that's a nice thing to give people.
>>738632062thanks
>>738614708google lens and phone tripod
>>738632409>Who wants to be on the same level as a native, thoughPeople who want to consume content meant for adults and not read yotsuba forever.
>>738632409and how many of those people have you asked "where were you born?"fucking idiot even native speakers can speak like non natives, youve never heard of second gen immigration?
>>738632583You don't need to be completely native just to play/read vn/manga or watch anime, at least for like 99% of those
>>738630864yoku.bi>>738630872how long you been learning/how fast ya been getting through muramasa?
>>738631772Holding/touching is not the distinction at all. You're thinking too literally.
>>738632001If you don't mind loli eroge, I unironically think that Imouto Pet ~Repure~ is a great option for beginners since the vocabulary is really simple and almost every line (including narration) is voiced.Otherwise there are the usual choices like Hanahira, which I personally found to be very easy but also very dull.
>>738632583That's an extremely nonsensical binary stance. Intermediate learners can read 90% of adult entertainment content with no real issue. Most people don't want to read Yotsuba forever, that only happens when people get stuck for whatever reason. But nobody "wants" to get stuck, what an odd thing to say.>>738632597What the fuck are you even talking about? I'm not talking about immigration, I'm talking about native speakers of a language. If English is your mother tongue, you can always tell when someone is non-native, you'll instinctively tell based on their accent or phrasing, and that's always different from second generation natives. That's not a bad thing either, it's just how it is. Being born to parents of a different nationality doesn't mean that they're not skilled at the native language.I swear, you /pol/tards just self report at every fucking opportunity. Take your meds.
>>738632409The good news is 99% of foreigners in Japan are terrible at Japanese, so if you're just better than that, they'll be amazed.
>>738632967日本語のスレ are usually "whine about 外人" containment zones tbf
ロンリー is rolling or lonely? why tf is the song called rolling girl then?
>>738626247This is why I don't talk to other JP learners unless they've already climbed the mountain and reached Dogen levels. I will NEVER say I am fluent regardless of how much I progress. Literally a cultural difference. Honkies, Spics, and Niggers here in the US learn a quarter of the kana and then start talking shit immediately and then drop it never to read again. It's in their fucking cultural DNA
>>738614708>...You HAVE been learning Japanese for untranslated VNs and JRPGs, right Anon?Actually a lot of games that I've wanted to play forever have been getting fan translations. There's so many being released every year now that I've got a serious backlog of them.
四字熟語はイヤだ! イヤだーーーーー!!
>>738634498>will NEVER say I am fluent regardless of how much I progress. Literally a cultural difference.Based I feel exactly the same way
>>738634134>>>>>ローリンガール
>>738635297ロリガール
>become English teacher>go to Japanese classes after work>get good at karaoke>start frequenting snack bars>find desperate 30 yo woman there to fuck and marryIs this a good way to learn Japanese?
>>738637065You're better off trying this in China imo, in a city like Chongqing or Xi'an.
>>738637175No thanks Chinese sounds like shit
>>738637470Nost Asian languages sound like shit
Biggest issue is that with most other languages, you're just dealing with an alphabet and can easily copy letters, with Jap you encounter kanjis all the time and having to draw them on a website to recognize them amongst dozens of other scribbles that look almost exactly like it is painful. I've searched a bit but didn't find any really good free software to auto-recognize this shit. And at least we have AIs to help now, but before that it would have been even more difficult to start learning this language. Especially the fact you can't even begin to pronounce the kanjis because you get 0 indications as it's full memory-slop instead of actual letters.
>>738639865How do you know how to pronounce these words?>tough>cough >ought>though>thought
>>738640115I'm French so yeah I had to memorize this bullshit (and you can tell me the same about the fact words are gendered in French), but still, you can actually see the damn letters, you can make a decent attempt. In Japanese you just get fucked, and copying the kanjis takes very long because you have to painfully zoom in 500% to look at each ant stroke and draw it again on some website to identify it. It's a way more painful type of memorization bullshit.
>>738640115just adapt the "transatlantic speech" style, simplifies everything. (you'll sound British but use American words, this will really fuck with both sides of the pond, Americans think you are British, British think you are an American. Profit? Trolling both sides.)
>>738639865also this is wrong and for the uneducated, the pronunciation guide is in the kanji itself due to the particles (the smaller kanji) that make up the bigger picture, think of them like lego blocks, one indicates the type of a word the other indicates the sound of the word.
>>738640882I haven't found any good guide for that.How do you know that 今 is pronounced ima and that 見 is the mi in miro 見ろ?
>>738640882Protip, when any post contains the term "AI" in the same sentence as the term "help", you can write it off instantly as being written by a complete fucking retard, so you don't have to bother replying to it.
>>738640956今 is pronounced Ima when it's by itself without any kanji next to it. 見 is pronounced Mi when it's by itself without any kanji next to it.Out of all examples you chose the simplest ones imaginable.
>>738641216What the fuck are you talking about?>It's easy you don't need to remember>duh you just have to rememberOk so it's all Chinese memorization retardedness.
>>738640990You're a retarded subhuman. How the fuck else can you understand what a sentence means? Have a 24/7 jap on standby to explain the nuances? Use some basic bitch translator made decades ago?
>>738641412How do you pronounce "Do" and "Don't"?
>>738641445Read more, fag.Your ultimate issue is retarded, because you're getting upset about 3000 symbols when you have to learn 20k words anyway. Oh noes, I have to look up new words and I can't just fail to pronounce them first try sometimes! Nuance comes with exposure, you don't get that from some dogshit auto-translate tool, and you don't even get it from some ESL Jap trying to poorly explain a sentence to you in a language he doesn't really know.
>>738641719They're not words, they're hieroglyphics, and you haven't given any solution to the fact it's incredibly fucking slow to check any kanji because you have to painfully draw it stroke by stroke with your mouse to find any help. It takes infinitely more time to check out a single kanji than a word you don't know in a language with an actual alphabet. It's why learning kanjis suck so much, it's a massive timesink way worse than anything you would ever encounter learning German, Spanish, Italian, French, English or whatever. It's ants drawings that cannot easily be checked for their meaning or pronunciation or anything. I know you're a fucking drooling subhuman, but try to imagine not having had breakfast, if you had to type the letters for any words you didn't know in another language with your fucking feet instead of your hands, that's how annoying it is to search for kanjis. It's doable, but long and painful and retarded. Anyway, do a flip faggot, YWNBAW.
>>738641445learn from a course (Jpanese from zero is a good one for slow retards on this board tbfh, the teach is good.)
>>738642046Thanks for the answer>requires an accountI want to detonate bombs in certain locations
>>738641216the eye part "me" + legs for "do" (in english) = "mi" hahaha. You memorize the context and then you remember the pronunciation.
>>738642087check youtube nigga, full playlist for Japanese.
>>738641968>it's incredibly fucking slow to check any kanji because you have to painfully draw it stroke by stroke with your mouse to find any helpNot that anon but I just draw the kanji into dictionaries on my phone as it's way faster, then type up the reading on my PC browser
>>738641968Sure, kanji are a timesink. It takes about 5 months to learn 99.9% of them, which is a mild barrier to entry most other languages don't have. If only there was a million ways to avoid the scenario you're talking about. Read shit for children, it all has furigana. Consume voiced content, so looking up a new term takes you half a second. Use a text hooker, so ditto. Use OCR, so ditto. The only time you might possibly stumble is reading low resolution older fonts, or reading handwriting. Simply avoid these until you have invested a few months into the fucking language, man, this was really difficult!
>>738615709this reads like you are a salty boomer faggot. upset that people hate what you turned this country into and want to leave it. you can't die soon enough.
>>738642139With how precise some kanjis are, I can't imagine drawing 業務 on my phone.>>738642160That helps for some basic understanding, but for reading any real Japanese texts you're fucked because kanjis are in every single sentence. I already have some very basic understanding to understand a good deal of simple sentences i hear in an anime, but that won't help me much with VNs or anything. >Use a text hooker, so ditto. Use OCR, so ditto.Any specific recommendation for something not dogshit, free and if possible portable/lightweight?
>>738642264textractor works for most stuff. If that doesn't work, then go use Agent, which has individualized scripts for a ton of games, although you need to manually download them from a separate github page iirc. If that doesn't have a script for the VN you want to read, then use LunaTranslator.
>>738642264You can draw practically scribbles like pic related and it'll likely pick up what kanji you're trying to get at since it considers stroke order and number of strokesGive it a try, it's way better than you might think
>>738642373you should just learn kanji calligraphy at this point anon, I doth think you makest a legendary artist.
>>738642264>I can't imagine drawing 業務 on my phone.This is literally a top 1000 frequency word.>Any specific recommendation for something not dogshit, free and if possible portable/lightweight?I haven't needed anything like this in a decade, so no. I can only imagine it's easier now than it was back then.
>>738642373Thanks, but I'm a hikikomori who hates phones so I'll stay on PC. This far I've used this one https://kanji.sljfaq.org/ but the results really confuse on what the fuck all the info given means when you get a kanji. The pronunciation is buried under a mass of information which I have no clue what it means.>This is literally a top 1000 frequency word.Sure but without regular training, I can barely remember what nani and ima look like, that's why I need efficient tools to help.
>>738642481Just write it down 20 times on a piece of paper then review it with Anki everyday, maybe with a sentence for context or something.
>>738642320Is there a way to make it work for a picture? Or any other software for pics?
>>738642481>Sure but without regular training, I can barely remember what nani and ima look like,The "training" you're talking about is reading. If you see 憂鬱 enough, you recognise it at first glance.If you can't read because you're a lazy retard, do anki, problem solved.
>>738642524I haven't looked into stuff like that and I'd doubt that it would be very reliable. You can lookup kanjis by the radicals that make them up on Jisho, so its not strictly required
>>738642481practice visualization, empty your mind, see it in your mind's eye.
>>738642563kanji is a plural, nouns are irregular in Japanese fucker, stop giving them plural suffixes in English.
>>738624258cuz i like it
I'm N4 in Japanese language and B2 in English :).
>>738642681入は入。try and translate that then.
>>738642769No :).
>>738642847>can't even translate an old meme.are you new?
>>738614708At this point I might have to take up fucking Chinese.
So close to being done with kaishi 1.5k. Then I can start mining. I took a 4 month break when it was at 100 new words left so the fact that I managed to surmount the 1000 piling reviews and get back to almost finish it made me seriously happy.
I reached a weird point where I originally started to feel productive and learn something new, but by now I just play stuff in Japanese and only occasionally encounter new words or or kanji. And it's great, I enjoy JP games in JP way more than I did translations, but now it's just a routine thing so it doesn't really feel new productive in the same way anymore...
I had a dream I learned Japanese today. It was awesome. Idk wtf I would use it for other than reading doujins though.
>>738643591that's a good dream anon, also unlimited erotic ai isekai slop!
i just started watching jp vtubers and my comprehension skyrocketed in the last year. obviously doing independent vocab + grammar study too
>>738642264>Any specific recommendation for something not dogshit, free and if possible portable/lightweight?meikipop
>>738643613I want to learn Japanese and live in japan pewds style with my white family and hopefully they would accept me as one of the cool gaijin but I have to learn this scuffed ass moon runes first
>>738645348you wont be able to move to japan unless you are indian
>>738614708My Japanese peaked at some point and it's been going downhill since. Now I read like a dyslexic grandpa.
>>738615345In summary:reading + anki > reading > anki > doing nothing at all>>738626375Share the drawing one. I also kind of follow that mindset. I have a mini habit for activity which is just doing 30 bodyweight squats every 45 minutes.
>>738646036>Share the drawing one.do atleast 1 gesture drawing everdaythat's it, it's simple and can even be done when you're very busy for the daybut you can also create your own version, i just make mine easier
>>738626303recently I've found a cute 2000s vinnie which I've read the last few evenings
ｷﾀ━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━!!!!
>>738626303Pokemon Stadium, but some shit doesn't really emulate right which sort of makes me regret picking the Japanese version>>738615345>i do anki everyday as the "minimum requirement"you've fucked up thenngmiif you can't consume shit raw then you should rely on tools
>>738614708>for untranslatedI learned japanese to avoid localized shit.
>just consume raw japanese>just play unTLd games, VNs without knowing the absolute minimum knowledgeyou fucks made it sound too easy
>>738650278Sounds like you only heard the parts you wanted to hear.
>>738614708no I haven't. お許しを>>738615325N2 a shit. go for N1. enjoy ようにもできない, ともなると, etc.
>>738632409>Passing as native should never be the goal, as you will never BE native.are you implying foreign writers have never been able to surpass a native? (e.g. write a book in English that has been widely read)? that's retarded
>>738649818>you've fucked up then>ngmiwhatever, like i said it's part of my mini habit routineat the very least i'm doing my daily anki reps vs back when i'm doing jackshit and just laze around browsing this website
>>738620128Just use Wanikani while learning the Hiragana and Katana. Anki is overrated trash only use it once you have at least 1-2k vocab and mine your own sentences. Do not use a preset deck. Anki is for memorization not for learning.
>>738650585You do you, but it takes like 2 hours of studying to consume japshit with whatever dictionary software that romanizes the words for you and lets you mouse over for meanings.Meanwhile most anons who get stuck grinding Anki can't consume anything even after years.
>>738624202Completely obsolete unless you are retarded
>>738614708I can't find the motivation to learn kanjis.>flashcards are brain boring and aimless learning>duolingo went full retard>any "japanese channel" just drag out easy kanjis like 食 or 言I can't find a good middle-ground.
>>738650817remember the kanji by heisigIt might be boomer tier by now but it was good back in the day
>>738650817look up keisei moji, radicals, and rikusholook up the structure of compounds (kanken autists love this)look up words a rune appears in (e.g. 主 has to do with main, among other things: 主人公, 主要, 主流, 主役)find diagrams like pic related
>>738614708No, I've been learning Mandarin instead because jrpgs fucking suck but cultivation games are rad. It is starting to feel like a waste of time, though. MTL shit like Ho Tu Lo Shu, Hero's Adventure, and The Matchless Kungfu will undoubtedly get actually good machine translations long before I can speak Mandarin at any appreciable level. That said, I also live in Australia, so I'll be forced to learn Mandarin under the new regime eventually anyway.
>>738650742>dictionary software that romanizes the words for youYou don't learn shit this way, meanwhile I have no trouble reading VNs after 2 years of studying and doing anki every day.
>>738650930mandarin is easy but the shitty native content makes it a slog. traditional chinese is unironically easier because it has better content>>738651043audiobook + book listening while reading is better. Never needed tranki
>>738631357A-Anyone...?
>>738651043>I have no trouble reading VNs after 2 years of studying and doing anki every day.nta, what's your process before? i'm looking for something that i can include with my anki if i have extra timemain goal is also to read VNs/manga
>>738651226not that anon but see >>738621781
>>738631357>what kind of listening are you doing?animu. anything. card games repeat a fuckton of words, but they come with tons of chuuni words as well. if it has subs, I look away unless I want to read consciously (e.g. words I missed or how translator handled translation)vlogs and lifestyle videosgrammar explanations for grammar points>How can I stop it from being white noiseliterally ask yourself what was said. or do practice tests or workbook exercises. those really force you to pay attention since they mention all the options you have for answers>look stuff upsome people find subs for series. workbooks and tests often have transcripts somewhere. worst case scenario is having to listen to a line 10 times until you get itlistening is 50% knowing the words being said, 30% listening ability, and 20% knowing what words to expect
>>738631357do you have an inner voice? shadow in your head using your inner voicelistening while reading is superior to listening until you are advanced
>>738651043It's what I did and it let me understand spoken nip in like a month, which gave me the leverage to start reading runes themselves since I only had to focus on the runes and not the grammar and vocab at the same time. Also all this time was spent on reading the shit I was interested in instead of grinding anki like a fucking idiot. I've been reading LNs/WNs/VNs/manga/games raw daily for years now.
That's like the most useless thing I could do.Especially since they aren't even that good.
>>738614708Yes, but I have been stuck in the "I can understand ~85% of things, and I don't feel I'm getting any better" for the last 7-8 years.
>>738614849Anki is for fortifying knowledge, not learning it...
There aren't any good untranslated vns left unironically
>>738650469are you dumbthere are literally hundreds of examples of people writing books in their second or third languages and those works becoming breakout hits or beloved classicsi mean beckett is a pillar of academic modernism and he originally wrote his magnum opus, waiting for godot, in french despite being irishbeing on that level still doesnt mean you are "native"you cant magically turn into being native lolit only means that you are exceptionally fluentsome of you guys itt are so stupid
>>738620128https://djtguide.github.io/learn/kana.html
>>738614708ehhh... I sometimes watch anime without subs for immersion
>>738651823>some of you guys itt are so stupidThat's what happens when you grind Anki instead of immersing. It makes you go a bit senile.
>>738651284I simply moved to a mining deck and forced myself to read every day until I had at least 20 new cards added to go through.
>>738651930kek
I fucking hate all this contradictory advice its so confusing for a beginnerSo should i be using anki or not? Why is this even in dispute? All of the guides say use anki, its the foundation, etc. But half of you are saying its useless. So which fucking is it? Whos lying?
>>738651930yeah cant argue with thati just cant belive anyone would genuinely think that "native" means "super fluent" instead of what it actually meansuncs gotta go back to learning english never mind japanese lol
>>738651823if get a top score on a language test (SAT reading and writing), you are for all intents and purposes better than many natives
>>738652067wait till you get into /djt/
>>738652067>So should i be using anki or not?It's a flashcard program, it really helps with memorizing stuff so you don't forget fancy kanji that you see once a month but it isn't needed>Why is this even in dispute? Committment issues from people trying it out and/or people using only anki instead of actually trying to watch anime/read manga/whatever and thus only learning isolated wordsAlso make your own cards, it massively helps with actually memorizing and understanding stuff
>>738652067you learn through immersion, anything else is to help you with it
>>738615010>proud /dsg/ member herelmao, bit of a freudien slip there
>>738652067trankies seethe and cope and circlejerk each other. trankie gives you dopamine and makes you feel good but it is a self contained and masturbatory activity. people got good before anki existed and I never saw anyone good swear by tranki
>>738652067When people make fun of Anki, they're actually not making fun of Anki itself.The issue is that it can become an endless loop that causes some people who don't have a set goal in their learning to get stuck in the beginner stage forever, because they use Anki as their "daily" immersion instead of, you know, actually immersing. So they spend years getting very good at reading flash cards but not making any real progress in the language itself.The important part is to immerse, which you will have noticed all of the guides also stress heavily. You need to be doing active immersion for at least one hour every day, preferably two hours or more. And try not to worry about falling behind etc. Everyone learns at their own pace. It's not a race.Another really big thing is, appreciate ambiguity. When you first set out even with a dictionary you will be lost. Just let it wash over you and it'll click when it clicks.
>>738615010Great job, you can start working as a JP-EN localizer anytime!
>>738652067anki works like this>helps you quickly commit obvious words that don't need explanations, like 車, 牛, 家, etc.>horrific for anything that requires explanations, like もっぱら, or disambiguating groups of a gorillion words that mean the basically the same but may have nuances (e.g. ちょっぴり, ちょっと, ちっと, ちょっぴり, 若干, やや, いささか, ちょっとした)>anki doesn't teach usage, it just helps you commit shit to memory. for nuances, you learn what you put on the card (e.g. 際 can't be used for regular occurences like とき can (i.e. you can't use 際 to express what do you do on your free time?))>most people suggest answering within 5 seconds. don't expect to remember everything about a word
>>738651325I did read that and I understand, I do listen to Teppei a lot. I think I just wanted some more perspectives.>>738651436I'll try some workbooks at the weekend, thanks.>>738651448Any recommendations for good listening-while-reading media, then?
I wanna read some of the non-English VNs, but I have no idea where to start.Its all very confusing to me.
>>738652882pseud shit. life is the best SRS
>>738653010anime/jdrama with japanese subs. almost all of the live action raw dramas on nyaa have japanese substhe audiobooks on nyaa, they often come with the epub if not zlib might have it
>>738653125how many times are you gonna see the rune for 檜 in your life
>>738651971i seethanks, well at least now i've got some gameplan of sortslooks like i have to move on from anki to mining decks + reading, soon
>>738653010>Teppeiたまたま明日は先生の誕生日おめでとうでください
>>738614708There's nothing worth learning an entire language for.
>>738653250>it's common in real lifethen you don't need to memorize it through anki>it's not common in real lifethen you don't need to memorize it through ankii sent 憂しい to a native instead of 嬉しいas a typo last nightthey had to look it up in a dictionary bc they didnt know the meaningwhats the point of knowing words natives dont know. you lost the plot at that point
>>738653271>おめでとうでください (i.e. めでたく(adverb)+で+ください)what
One thing I wish guides didn't recommend is starting a mining deck alongside Kaishi. You should still immerse and use a dictionary and grammar guide of course. But don't bother mining anything, just stick with the core 1500 words. The workload very quickly became unmanageable. After you finish Kaishi you can switch over but I personally stuck with it a bit longer so I can see every single word at least a few times which slightly reduced my workload for mining henceforth
>>738653271damn i got this through anime a few days ago. and it was actually fun and didnt burn me out. imagine that
>>738653367>whats the point of knowing words natives dont know.everyone knows what a hinoki tree is you mongoloidnot learning words based on frequency ratings is retarded.
>>738653393learn what an adverb is moron
>>738653472you can just ask what it is if you have good fundamentals
>>738653393It's a reference to the way that Teppei speaks. He interupts himself constantly.
>>738651803While this is true, it's still worth it to not have to use the often garbage localizations
>>738653271お誕生日おめでとうてっぺい先生!!...is that correct?
>>738651803theres a few
>>738653065vns are not a good point of entry
>>738653526>he doesn't know about adding く to い-adjectivesI hereby pronounce you ngmi
>>738653897They're the perfect point of entry. Wtf is this takeJust pick one that is fully voiced and doesnt have extensive internal narration
>>738653897I just meant I want to learn to read Japanese to read VNs, not read VNs to learn Japanese.
Most chuds itt will never leave Japanese because chuds are unintelligent. Leftists are highly intelligent people and this is why you see so many left wing localizers.
>>738653982Not an adjective either, you incredible fucking dunce. Enjoy your N5 certificate though, bonafide expert, lol.
stop feeding the troll
>>738651803Even if, some translations are terrible
>>738654035there are no fun games suitable for a person with a spoken vocab of near zero >>738654058you stupid ah hell nigga
>>738654145>めでたい is not an adjective
>>738653897t. manga reader
>>738654328manga sucks ass
>white guys arguing over a dying chink language because their own culture is collapsing because their women wont fuck themGrim.
<insert ishowspeed try not to laugh gif here>
thats disrespectful as shit bruh stop fucken laughing bruh
>>738654035I do get his point in that they're way more text heavy than other games so it's easier to get burned out. I read a VN back when starting and never finished it. Although I did still read quite a bit before getting tired of it.
>a certain continent wakes up>thread suddenly turns to shitMany such cases!
>>738653065If you're still kinda new then I'd suggest reading a manga with furigana so you can have an easy time looking up words.If you absolutely wanna learn from reading VN then you gonna have to set up a text hooking tool or an OCR, unless your hearing is very good.Personally i use the OCR that came with powertoys (a windows program).Assuming you don't know which VN to start with I'd say just go with anything that seems interesting to you.Personally the first VN that i read back when i was like 1 year into learning was Amagami on the ps2. I remember it was pretty easy aside from the random words that seem uncommon and a beginner like me have no business knowing.
>>738654524yep im sure there was a lot of new and insightful discussion happening
>>738653065Try manosaba. Easy, voiced protagonist and doesn't have a lot of narration
>>738653065forget novels bro just do よつばと with the ancient reading guidevery straightforward and uncomplicated sentences, perfeect for reinforcing basic grammar points from your grammar guide of choicethen you can work up from there
>>738654524We are the only really your dogshit chink country has any autonomy. Russians were going to turn you into flesh lights.
>>738621781I'm on episode 160-something of Teppei's original podcast and it's weird that I can understand 99% of what he says, but then with any anime I try to watch, even some simplistic SoL, it will only be like 20%.
>>738654653>only reallyGood mornyan!
>>738624202top left to bottom right, duuurrrrr
>>738654698good job anonive just started listening to him this morning, how can i train my ear to listen and understand him betteri know itll be a while anyway. i just want advice
>>738654724Cope euroid/mutt filth, we will kill you
>>738654724Good morning white monkey.Thank the Jews.Indian and black men are cumming in cute white girls right this second. Cry more!
i haven't played a western game in like four years because every time i see one that is interesting i think i could instead be using that time to play a game in japanese and kill two birds with one stone
>>738615010Congrats, man. Keep on that grind.
>>738654827>>738654854Erm, that sounds a bit problematic, tee-bee-eightch. Please do the needful and leave this wholesome thread! I don't want your American c*ckold fetish in my /v/ DJT, thanks! <3
Please be a good boy and enjoy the BBC sir. All white and jap women crave it secretly :(
Video games?
>>738654869>>738654878>>738655054>>738654803>>738654590pic is u
>>738620965>mature deck of >12,000 cardsWhat's your mining workflow? Mine is decent for card generation but I feel like it could be faster. And it gets tiring fast.>read new word in VN>copy it from textractor into jisho>shift + hover with Yomitan -> new card>add a screenshot with ShareX
djt gaaaaaaaaang
>>738614708Nah why do that when MTool can do the job?I'd rather learn Chinese for my cultivation novels.Besides, Kanji have the same meaning right?Like the character for mountain is the same in Chinese and Japanese?
>>738614708I read an entire VN via a lightly edited chat GPT machine translation and the experience was great, so I don't think it's necessary any more.
How hard is SMT 5? My friend kindly bought it for me and I'm in the mood for a Fatlus RPG. But it seems like it'd be very difficult language wise? Given how many of the demons are based on history, mythology, etc.
>>738655231press play on the game and find out
>>738621781>just search nihongo con teppei>do it>find the website>reverse chronological ordering with no way to switch it around
>>738655135With japreader it's only one click to add a word.
>>738655231Havent played it but its an rpg, you determine tie difficulty of the language by virtue of exposureIt can be as easy or hard as you wantalso you dont need to mine everything you dont want to and that goes for everythin g you consumeUou set your own pace bro
>>738655231Nocturne was fairly hard, I imagine 5 is similar
>>738655131Nah, I did my deck already today.
>>738655612>>738655131My deck backlog is nearly a thousand. I only have time to do 20 mins of cards in the morning and I just barely have time for 1hr of immersion when I get home so sadly I've had cards stacking for months. Sometimes I have to reschedule all the red cards because they refuse to clear day after day due to the low amount of time I have on each one. That probably ruins the scheduling too but whatever, I'm not a NEET anymore
TEXTHOOKERVSOCRCHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER /V/
>>738655845both are crutches, are you a cripple?
>>738650817You read.
>>738655845handwriting input and inputting words via IMEgit gud
>>738652067You should be using anki as a study aide, not as your primary learning tool. You learn through immersion (reading/listening/watching/etc.), anki is there to support that and help you retain it.
>>738614708Now that I think about it, most of my crappy n4~ level japanese I grinded out on anki has been used trying to read Japanese tweets and hgames that aren't translated. I should really get around to actually fucking reading something proper one of these days.
>>738655845hiragana from hearing >>738655950>anki is there to support that and help you retain it.anki is fool's gold and hurts you more than it helps (opportunity cost)
>>738656236Yeah man, flashcards of words I get from immersion are THE DEVIL. Those ~20 minutes a day on top of immersion are PURE EVIL. Get a fucking grip.
>>738656352>~20 minutes a daylarping faggit pretending to have a 5 card deck
>>738656236explain how faggotron, words you grind on anki stay with you regardless of actual frequency. that does wonders for your vocabulary
>>738656504...repping a card takes you 4 minutes?
>>738656352>20 minutesHuh? With my anki deck I was doing an hour every day reviewing around 200 cards
>>738656504Not that guy but it takes me ~25 minutes to do the 240-270 reviews I have per day, usually my average time spent is around 4.5 seconds per card
>>738656595>3.3 minutes per cardfound your problem
>>738656525tranki only gets you better at tranki. real life gets you better at real life. it is a simulation entirely removed from actual real life
>>738656675When you have that many cards it takes some time to review them all, especially in Japanese where you have all of these similar looking Kanji. You seem to have not taken anki seriously.
>>738656649u grinding for jlpt? for what?
if you use flashtards go ahead but dont be giving niggas advice when youre not fluent simple ass
>>738656793I dont consider you fluent unless you can speak Japanese flawlessly which is probably less than 0.01% of any anon in this thread
>>738656770No just mining the words I come across when reading
ok guys pack it up 840 doesnt consider you flawless
>>738656765>similar-lookingdon't tell me you confuse shit like 持つ(has 扌, hand radical on the left), 侍(has 亻, person radical on the left), 待(彳, has person radical in 行 on the left), 寺, etc.the differences are huge
>>738656504I am usually done in 3-4 minutes...
>>738656840>you fluent unless you can speak Japanese flawlesslytranki armchair virgin. will never get poon will never be satisfied will never be a woman. many such cases.
>>738631332One of the earliest mnemonics I used for this in the first month or so for this was "So-re (Sorry), I'm taking *that*" and I never forgot it.
>>738656649bloody hell im slowi gotta start setting a 3 second per card hard limitiirc theres a way to do that in the anki settings
>>738656938>literal 6 card deck
>>738657079DarksydePhil speaks better Japanese than most of the "fluent" speakers in this thread.It's a pretty sobering realization.
My problem is listening, i can never tell between what's a word and what's a particle
>>738657180consume more input>yeah but i've listened to a lot of st-MOREINPUTgo listen to every episode of nihongo con teppei 5 times, NOW
>>738657290funny thing is, i was just trying to watch his non 'for-beginners' videos without looking at any subtitles which is what prompted me to post this. maybe i need to just listen more and cope until i understand
>>738657115Result of adding one word a day on average.
>>738656926I keep confusing 露, 霧, and 霞...
I learn best drilling from textbooks and workbooks. Whats a good book for intermediate Japanese? Hovering around N3.
>>738657063Wow you seem very smart and sane. I should definitely be taking advice from you.
>>738657180That's a syntax issue. You gotta watch more shows with jp subtitles and make sure you're comprehending what's being said. More listening won't help you.
>>738657628he is giving you what you deserve
>>738657623You're definitely beyond textbooks at that level.
>>738657539露 has 路(みち) below (dew on roads). 霧 has 務 below and also reads ム (see 濃霧). 霞 has this thingy (叚) that appears in runes like 暇 and they both read カ as well (see 雲霞, 休暇)it's easy
>>738657623>Whats a good book for intermediate Japanese?夫のちんぽが入らない (こだま) (z-library.sk, 1lib.sk, z-lib.sk)audiobook on nyaa
>>738657539Brute force memoryForget radicals ons and kuns and all that nonsenseIf you cant memorise all these distinct shapes you will never make itI brought force memorise all words in English too
>>738614708The only thing I remotely want to read in japanigga is jintai LN and I dont think its worth learning a language just for it
>>738657869put it page by page into an llm and ask it to explain any nuances when necessary youll get at least 85% of the intended experience
>>738657719Darn back to bunpo it is then
Kaishi (and I guess most core decks) sucks. I have to learn the kanji and the word at the same time. I end up learning neither.
>>738657967Too much of a hassle getting page by page
>>738614708Yes.Unfortunatelly, I'm at >>738614849I really need to start reading manga or VNs, but I just hardly find any time to do so. I have job and tons of side projects and games to play and it's just hard to find time for all of that. If I start reading something, I can't find time for flashcards. If I do flashcards, I don't really have time or energy for VNs.I guess I should just stop taking new words, plateau with my daily cards and just focus on immersion.
>>738657623I don't know what intermediate means exactly, but after 4 years of playing vidya in Japanese, I started reading Harry Potter (before I was too scared of trying to read books and finding out how shit I was) and it's easier to read than most JRPGs I've played. You can get all 7 books from Library Genesis.I'm on book 3 right now. I'd like to try The Hobbit too, but I can't find it in Japanese, sadly.
>>738658143Don't fall for the meme of learning individual kanji characters. Just learn vocabulary and the associated spelling.
>>738658150NTA, but ctrl+a --> ctrl+c --> ctrl+vThat easy.
>>738658143These excuses get more and more insane by the month. What exactly is so difficult about learning the word? English words have irregularity too. It's genuinely just a matter of time. Just stick at it.>b-b-butJUST IMMERSE MOAR YOU FUCKERS
>>738658216Now repeat that 200 times per volume, thats what i mean by too much of hassle
>>738658274How fast can you read a page? It takes a second, man.
>>738658150depends how bad you wanna read it ig
>>738614708>HAVE TO KNOW AND MEMORIZE ALL 3,000 CHARACTERS! FUCK OFF NIPS!
How do you train OUTPUT ?
>>738631615>>738631332これ = closer to the speakerそれ = closer to the person you are talking toあれ = away from both of youIt could mean something that is physically close to someone, or someone's idea or posession etc.
>>738658494Each one has AT LEAST 2 different readings which are completely arbitrary, too! Japanese is a very fun and unique language!
>>738658642Talk to people
>>738657114I recommend 5 at minimum
>>738658743The meanings usually aren't that different.>inb4 cherrypicked exampleThere's an underlying conceptual/linguistic link you aren't seeing.
>>738658757ewwAnything else ?
>>738657539Do your radical reps m8, either the arbitrary or historical kind
>>738658816If you don't want to talk to people there's really no reason to bother practicing output.
>>738658816Talk to ChatGPT
>>738658816I write reviews on Steam.
>>738658642Try typingバカ
>>738658785I should hope the meanings of the same exact word aren't different lol
>>738658816use the language faggotronfill-in the blanks exercises with templates (趣味は____, 今日はなかなかいい天気ですね, whatever)use the magazine clipping method (take bits from phrases you've heard before and assemble your own)just avoid speaking english in japanese (i.e. don't shoehorn english sentence structure and expressions into japanese, try to find examples of people expressing what you want to say)just remember, do it right and you'll improve, do it wrong and you'll form bad habits.
>>738658816>Think in your head of random sentences >try to type them in japanese>use chatgpt/deepseek to be your tutor wagey
>>738658642さあね。人は目的をどうやって遂げるのかな。
>>738658494These characters are composed of other characters. It's not 3000 completely unique symbols, they stack, not unlike how you stack English syllables to form words.
>>738614708I want more of her
>>738614708>learning Japanese>for untranslated VNs and JRPGsI do it for jp chuubas
>>738659159
>>738659237most respectable nigga of the thread
if you can't beat 漢字でGO! on normal mode, you have no right typing in this thread
>>738659237I do it for fun because I'm a linguistics nerd.
is there anything more cucked than learning a worthless language like Japanese?
>>738659237I do it for JAV VR
>>738659323>if you can't beat 漢字でGO! on normal mode, you have no right typing in this threadIf you;ve never done ナンパ you have no right typing in this thread
i learned japanese just to read untranslated hentai, by the time i became semi competent at it, i no longer had the libido to care about hentai anymore...
>>738626303I' am marathoning DQ, feels great not having to rely on that shit localization
>>738659026好きなenglish phrasesをいくらでもねじ込んでやるよthe retards in japanに通じなかろうが知ったこっちゃねえしマジであいつらバカどもはLEARN ENGLISHべきだ
>>738659384>is there anything more cucked than learning a worthless language like Japanese?Language is one of the greatest contributors to cummies that there is. More than getting rich or getting jacked, learning a language will help you coom.
>>738659487>>738659440>>738659384150iq>>738659323>>738659372>>738659428110-130 roughly>>738615010250+
>>738659058Yeah, but unlike English, the kanji components are an arbitrary disassembly of the kanji itself. 意 is good example of how the components do not inform you of the reading and only 心 is actually related to the meaning.
>>738660089>arbitrary
>>738660089The point being though that there is a lot of repetition in kanji.
>>738660089so?離れる is a borrowed one. its parts almost nothing to do with the meaning (supposedly some sort of snake and a bird tussling and then breaking up their fight), but there's still a way to make it work
i don't know if its true but why do i see people say that it doesn't take that long(maybe like 6 months of consistent study) to learn like 80% of the most used kanji, but the other 20% would take decades to learn? is this true and if so, why is it like this?
>>738660384probably because the kanji are mostly objective. they have a defined writing and spelling, you can grind them out without ever feeling confused unlike grammar
>>738660384no. you learn what you want. some take longer because they're not as common. however, if you go out of your way to study them, 2 tops. it should take a year or so to get all you need down.
>>738660384>is this true No
>>738660384bc people are lazy when phrasing these statements and it thus it makes no point arguing since you're not even talking about the same thing. but you don't need all the 2000 joyo kanji under your belt to get through the day. you'll be somewhat fine with 900~1300 for a while. teens do it too.that being said, learning 3 kanji each and every day (meaning all joyo readings for each and a couple of words to use them in) will take you ~2 years - which is a brisk pace.
>>738660384A lot of kanji that are necessary are kanji you will see in almost any writing that is longer than a few sentences. Rare kanji can be obscure to the point you see it once and may not see it again for 6 months. Another layer of difficulty is that the japanese tend to be fast and loose with when to write something using hiragana vs a kanji.
>>738660132Yes, arbitrary. They were split apart for indexing purposes, but those components are not the actual composition of the kanji. For instance, 意 is actually composed of 音 + 心, but 音 is considered to be etymologically unrelated, meaning that we don't know what the original intended meaning for this compound was supposed to be.>>738660223Fair point, but it's still largely unhelpful from a learner's perspective.>>738660229>(supposedly some sort of snake and a bird tussling and then breaking up their fight)No, the character itself is phono-semantic, so the left component 离 indicates its sound (though these sometimes also bear semantic relevance) and the right component 隹 (bird) is the intended meaning, but this character is special because it is a purely phonetic borrowing for the word for departure. So in reality, the kanji's etymology is completely unrelated to its usage.
>>738660927roughly 120 iq for this guy
>>738660753to add to that, that still doesn't mean you'll know how use those words well. verbs are of course especially complex. the real enemy in the long run are idiomatic expressions - as is the case for any language. once you're decent, you'll spend years becoming eloquent. or not. most probably won't.
>>738660975Thanks, I've been studying Japanese for awhile.
>>738660089>unlike English, the kanji components are an arbitrary disassembly of the kanji itself. 意 is good example of how the components do not inform you of the readingEnglish letters also do not inform you about the meaning or reading of the word.
>>738661361ough, enough
>>738660384That's because it makes more sense to just learn entire words than kanji in isolation, and some kanji are just rare.
i swar these people have the most retarded conversations. just do the thing fucking goddammit
