>AB 1921, the POG Act, short for Protect Our Games Act, is coming up in another California Assembly committee this weeks Thursday (14th).>This is the bill backed by Stop Killing Games that says:>If a company sells you a paid digital game, then later shuts down the services needed for the game’s ordinary use, it needs to give notice and provide a remedy — a playable version, a patch, or a refund.>That’s it.>Not “run servers forever.”>Not “maintain every live-service feature until the heat death of the universe.”>Just don’t sell people a game and then make it unusable with no real remedy.>Now the Entertainment Software Association is lobbying against it. tl;drSKG making the ESA seethe.
Why are Americans like this? Is it because they worship Israel?
>>738649625It is a dangerous precedent to let people rally against reforms and directly intervening in the process of the rules they made up for themselves in their own game. Pwease stop rallying against us
>>738649625This is why AI >>> humans
>>738649625>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOW CAN WE JEW OUT PLAYERS WITH MICROTRANSACTIONS IF WE GIVE THEM THE TOOLS TO HOST THEIR OWN DEDICATE SERVERS!!! THINK OF THE POOR PUBLISHERINOS!
Reminder Stop Killing Games is funded by the EU and Valve in order to entrench the Steam monopoly. They want all games to run on Valve servers indefinitely.
>>738649846
>>738649873Refund Gabe Newell his donation Kamala voter.
>>738649846Typical.
>>738649696You know why.
>>738649729Rights are a dangerous precedent.
How exactly is this a bad thing? If you bought a piece of software you should be able to run it for as long as you like. You bought it after all
>>738649873or companies could just release the server binaries like they used to do in the past
>>738649625funny that, they repeat most of the problems which are need to be solved with the proposed billthey also mix it up with blatant lies they probably got from thor on last minute
>>738649960no
no shit nobody wants the law to force eternal server maintenance for failed project nobody plays.
>>738649625wow the same jewish association that doesn't think gachashit is gambling also doesn't want consumers to have more control over the shit they buy, who would've though
>>738649696FPBP.
>>738649963You are like a child. Companies would be liable for any future bugfixes or security vulnerabilities in those server binaries.
>Gamers: "We want the tools to host servers for this game you just shutdown">(((Corporate lawyer))): "NO THAT WILL COST US TRILLIONS AND MAKE FUTURE GAMES LESS GOODER"If the legal system wasn't retarded and built to serve corporate kikery this would be a slam dunk in SKG's favor
>>738649625>this is extremely dangerous to our democ- battlepasses. shut it DOWN>>738649846/thread
>>738650162You will not stop us from fulfilling our destiny, goy.
>>738649696If you don't ask the billionaire you're slutsquatting for if he wants to rail your ass before you suck him off you're a COMMIE.
>>738650218No one is stopping you from activating the Samson option.
>>738649625This stems from the fact that they are selling people "video games", but in reality those are mere "licenses" or "services".And also, people think they are buying "video games", even though they have been told the opposite.
They should've just mentioned how self hosted servers give free speech. No word filler, no autoban, you can be as chuddish as you want on a self hosted CS server.
>>738649696Unlike Eurocucks, Americans value freedom and dont want a nanny-state meddling with every aspect of their lives.
>>738650350What about age verification that certain states push?
>>738649846>Doug LowensteinOf course
>>738650131>muh consulting firms can exist in multiple names but not publishers who are held liable for such things
>>738650131except they literally used to do that you zoomtard
>>738650350>freedom>it's just guns and being able to call for grievous bodly harm on anyone they feel likeWhy are americans so aggressive towards each other?
this shit benefits nobody. It will costs millions per year and make nobody's life better. the retard just want his TheCrew dlc back, he isn't going to play on that infinite like support server. Nobody will. Game preservation isn't real, it's an invented religion to sustain old plastic speculation
>>738650350>not potable tap waterlol
>>738650350>most sue happy people on earth don't want any gubmint interferencelel
>>738650350>a company has every right to disable your car remotely>freedom
>>738650589if this kills all the gachashit and microtransaction bullshit then it made the world a better place
>>738649696Ross is an American you fucking retarded piece of shit. Tie a noose around your neck
>>738650745What would lead you to believe that this has anything to do with "gachashit" or microtransactions?
>>738650745>who cares I want to KILL things I DISLIKEsee? It's all bullshit, you just want murder and blood, like every fucking commi piece of trash.
>>738650464A company needs to pay for tech support forever? That's slavery.
>>738650712>"just buy a different car">all foreign cars are banned due to national security concerns>the 2 or 3 brands that are allowed to be sold, you're forced to take a loan out for because they colluded between each other to inflate the priceFreedom and protectionism is incompatible with each other, but I think amerilards are waking up to the fact that they've been living in a fascist oligarchy for the majority of their life
>>738650786the biggest reason central matchmaking is prevalent and player-owned dedicated servers disappeared is because you can't control the entire playerbase and hold out on stuff with microtransactions if everyone is able to mod their servers as they want>>738650806>getting rid of bad thing is badkill yourself parasite
>>738650350Yeah because having to rely on gofundme is so much better than a "nanny state" helping it's own people
>>738650961nobody says they have to do that you retard
>>738649696You already know the answer.>>738650350Freedom my ass. You worship niggers and jews.
>>738651027That's what this law would require.
>>738650774It's sad seeing americans fighting against fellow americans.
>>738651074no it would not, you goddamn faggit
>>738649625I hope everyone in this ESA cabal gets treated like the way leftists treated supreme court judges post roe v wade repeal.
>>738650806Yes, as a matter of fact I do want gachafaggots dead and their corpses stomped!
>>738651106Yes it would. You can't just release server binaries and let hackers go wild.
>>738649873what are you talking about you fucking idiotvalve has supported hosting your own servers in their games since foreverthey also fight against publishers by never actually removing games and letting people download them after the publisher told them to stop selling them
Literally the same tired ass arguments that have already been addressed and debunked.
>>738651087>some Jewish cabal that controls business = all AmericansDie in a fire
>>738649960it's damaging to our business model, you see we need you to be unable to play your games in order to force you to buy new games.Its also why the goddamn cunts in tech companies keep changing the UI, fuck the redesigner for youtube btw. because they'd be out of a job if they didn't actively redesign and "improve" uis every goddamn time people finally get use to it
>>738650131Under what legal framework would they be liable for software they've abandoned? Cite your sources.
>>738651169How does that fatass billionaire's boot taste?
>>738651128the whole point of releasing the server binaries is that the original devs no longer want to/have to provide support for the game and the community can take overpeople will be able to host their own servers and moderate against hackers, even take over developement to provide patches
>>738650967>all foreign cars are banned due to national security concernsYou want some real fun for recent news? Look into the ban of routers and how netgear magically gets a free pass.
>>738651128You can, in fact, do that. You can release software and say all liabilities are on the user. See also: Fucking open source software.
>>738651230how does unmedicated mental illness feel?
>>738649846AHHHHH HELP ME NIGGERMAN I'M NOOOOOOOOOOOTICING
>>738650350This is the government meddling with corporate jewery though, which is usually a good thing.
>>738650961just make it so people can host it, the only reason not to is due to piracy concerns but if ur killing the game anyways its very little effort. of course the real reason is why would anyone want to buy a newer probably shittier game when you can play the original forever
>>738651128You don't even know what "binaries" and "hackers" are you faggot shill
>>738650350>corpo having no regulations goodkill yourself
ITT OP angers the ferengi alliance.
>>738651128I'm sure all those hackers are going to have a field day trying to hack a stopped server now that they have the binaries for it.
Thor, the aryan norse god of thunder, has yet again proven to be a genius
>>738651230I bet it tastes better than the corporate jewcock you're slobbering all over.
>>738650131are you retarded? bugfixes definitely not, security vulnerabilities is covered under TOS disclaimer especially if the game reached EOS and they released the code.Or are you going to prove that the devs had a severe vulnerbility in the game for the entire game's lifespan and maliciously kept it hidden just so they can hack players when they join a privately hosted server
>>738650131Maybe if you made better games it wouldn't be such a big problem, now would it? Turn off the servers and go to jail forever, your choice.
>>738649625>"that is not how software works"Some snarky millenial bootlicker wrote this.That's okay though, because that is how software will work again.
>>738649625I'd vote YES if I could.
>>738650350>Americans value freedomThat's weird, you act completely opposite to what you're saying.
>>738651180>Americans allow the jews to call the shotsSad, so sad. You'll be the one burning in the fire of hell for allowing the jews to take control of a truly god fearing country like the US was supposed to be.
>>738649625>Video games are dynamic software systems not static products
>>738649625>licensed, not soldyou don't need a license to use software. copyright does NOT cover enjoyment of a workthey can fucking die in hell
>>738649696Why are Europeans anti-semitic? Is it because they worship satan?
>>738650350Americans value foreign governments bribing government officials in to serving the interests of foreign nations instead of the serving the people who voted them in to power.
It’s hilarious that California’s communists tried to be pro-consumer by forcing corporations to admit that they aren’t selling digital products, and now the corporations are saying that software (all of it, whether digital or physical) isn’t really purchased by users, as California helped prove, LOL.This only proves that the right way to combat this notion that consumers aren’t buying products (which is a lie) is to make it illegal for licenses to be revoked without the license holder (the consumer) having a full right to a defense in court.
>Patapon 3 on fucking psp works perfectly well to this day>Making a game work perpetually today is totally impossible guys!
>>738652094>pro-consumer by forcing corporations to admit that they aren’t selling digital productsthat's not pro-consumer, retard. that's just them being forced to go mask-off and relabeling everything. if anything, it hurts the consumer because you used to be able to defend yourself by pointing at the big honking "BUY" button to the judge. now that's no longer an option
>>738651990Satan is an agent of god under Judaism, why would worshiping him be antisemitic?
>>738649696>AmericansThese are Californians, anon. Calling them Americans is like saying Mohammad, Muhammud, and Mahammod who live by your pub are British.
>>738649846classic
>>738649625>Many game rely on online servers and authentication.It didn't used to until greedy ass suits decided that should be the norm so they can fuck right off with that.
>>738652336If they clearly label a product as a temporary service you won't need to wave anything at the judge because you bought into it with the knowledge that it'll be taken away eventually so you wouldn't have a reason to go to court in the first place.
>>738652264i bought a ps1 game just last weekstill workshell, it even works on the ps2 and 3! thats crazy, CDs must be some esoteric lost technology
>>738652480nobody cares lmaoto the civilized world you're the same angloid mutt
>>738649625>that is not how games workwhich is specifically what AB1921 is about, lol
>denuvo can no longer phone home>game is bricked forever
>>738649625>>738649696how is lobbying even legal? why the fuck can a corportation with 100 billion dollars at their disposal just legally message a politican and tell them they will give them money if they do their bidding? and they don't even have to hide it because its 100% legalamericans must be the dumbest people on the planet to have written law like this
>>738650712corporations are closer to the working man than the government
>>738652808At least you know who owns those politicians, corruption will happen no matter what.
>>738652808you forced the government into making SKG happen in the first place
>>738652808>corrupt politicians legalize corruption>all those armed freedom enthusiast do fucking nothingland of the free trulyfree to take it up the arse
>>738652336The idea was to put the stores in an awkward position, something like: "Oh yeah, do you really think you have the right to remove the product you sold? Then you'll have to make it clear to everyone that you're not selling products to them," which the stores did without any hesitation, and now corporations are using this to their advantage to cement the idea that they don't actually sell software, they just "rent" it.As I said, the solution is simple: prohibit corporations from revoking sold licenses, unless they prove in court that the consumer used the license to commit crimes (such as, for example, creating pirated copies from the license and selling them). In this case, the software (physical or digital) would be like any other product.You can have your property confiscated according to the law depending on the shit you've done, but you'll have the chance to defend yourself. The same should apply to software licenses.
>>738652808>how is lobbying even legal? why the fuck can a corportation with 100 billion dollars at their disposal just legally message a politican and tell them they will give them money if they do their bidding?Because someone paid a politician to make it legal.
>>738653070No you see those corrupt politicians are on their side because they fight against the libs and deport migrants, they'll only pick up their pea shooters when the government becomes tyrannical.
>>738649625>Actually read the paper>It's completely reasonable and accurate You're just a retard, OP.
Posting SKG support letter for the act.
>>738653560
>>738653621
>>738652613>>738652336Games are already clearly labelled as limited licenses both on storefronts and in the licensing agreement you've never readThese threads are always so stupid. A bunch of idiot children throwing tantrums because they don't understand the world they live in.
>>738653560>>738653621>>738653670Woah, the balls from SKG to lie like that on official documents.
>>738653740you tell them, brother
>>738652648>"civilized world">t. conquered euromutt or turdskinLMFAO
>>738653560I love how SKG's response to concerns of the inevitable practical consequences of their ask is just "lol we don't know what that is so we'll pretend it doesn't exist"
>>738653497>migrantsillegal aliens*ftfy, seething tranny retard.
>>738653740If they're limited, when do they expire? Keep in mind "when i say so" only works in muttland :)
>be non-American>"let me tell you about America"
>>738649625a very pogchamp bill with less pogchamp opposition
>>738653892this but kikes like you and server browsers
>>738649960>If you bought a piece of software you should be able to run it for as long as you like. You bought it after allServices exist
>>738653898Look at those goalposts fly!Your license to execute the software on your device does not need to expire for a game to no longer function
>>738653550
>>738653996A video game is a product
>>738653621>>738653560>SKG consistently responding to real logistics with "nuh-uh!"Mossman is pathetic and his lawyers are taking him for a ride.Here let me help you dipshits understand the discourseMoss: I want the money in this piggy bank!Adults: That would require us to break the piggy bankMoss: I DIDN'T SAY BREAK THE PIGGY BANK I SAID GIVE ME THE MONEY INSIDE I DIDN'T ASK YOU TO BREAK THE PIGGY BANK SHOW ME WHERE I SAID TI BREAK THE PIGGY BANK
>>738654207Only in your imagination
>>738654041Nice strawman, bro.
>>738653740You didn't seem to read the license agreement either because they conveniently leave out the part that the game that doesn't require an online connection to be playable can one day just stop functioning when the publisher decides to pull the plug. One of SKG's points is that publishers need to be open about their intention with their product, and for example if they are planning to pull the cord in a year if the game doesn't perform well, they should warn the customers before making the purchase that that's their intention so consumers see all the cards in advance. I don't see how that's a childish thing to ask for.
>>738654234Which "real logistics" would that be?
>>738651909>what about my whole drawer of decades of gaming discs that are so called 'static product'?>oy vey stop being antisemitic
>>738654294>They leave out that online services enabling major features might go down!No they don't lol
>>738654234How much do they pay you lot to shill anyway?
>>738649625>still thinking skg is about infinite supportHow do these people breateh?
No more Wildstar no more New World
>>73865435150 rupees per post.
>>738650350freedom for corporations is anti-freedom for consumers
>>738654303Think hard, champ, I'm sure you can figure it outMaybe actually read the letter in the OP if it isn't too complicated for you.
>>738654352It's about infinite obligationIf you have a game running that nobody has played in years, if you shut down the servers you are legally obligated to do a bunch of stupid shit for a game nobody plays
>>738649625>the POG Acti scowled
>>738650350AHAHAHAA
>>738654352they know what it means, they are purposefully taking the bad faith option and pushing it
>>738654352>I NEVER SAID BREAK THE PIGGY BANK
>>738654401Same thing, stuff like this won't apply to games made before any law changes
>>738654507>stuff like this won't apply to games made before any law changesSo? That's bullshit regardless, you should not have any obligations to a game nobody is actually playing
>>738654351Pay?
>>738654551The game should be designed from the group up around this. If this passes hopefully we'll see a change in practices.
>>738654395Glad to see anti-SKG shills don't even try to argue anymore, they just handwave away the whole conversation so they don't even have to try (and fail) at making a compelling point.
>>738654615>you should put in extra effort to design a game like this for no reasonwonderful idea
>>738654665Yes, just like seat belts. It's just an extra cost, except not. Seat belts can save you in an accident and SKG can save your game too
>>738654551No, but they do have an obligation toward the people who paid for the game. The buyer can decide for himself when he wants to stop playing without getting his arm twisted.
>>738654551Please understand, these people have no idea how software stacks or b2b licensing agreements work and don't care to learn. They won't hear that requiring all video games that aren't monthly subs to use absolutely no licensed media or middleware and to use a very specific and narrow and outdated server structure is a ridiculous ask that violates people's IP rights.They are children. They want their toy.
>>738654401maybe it will help them avoid anticonsumer designs in the first place then
End your suffering, subhuman /pol/skin.
>>738649696Yes.
>>738649625>The bill is based on a false premise: that consumers "own" digital games with permanent access. That is not how software works -- games are licensed, not sold as unrestricted property.Yeah, that's exactly the problem that needs to be fixed. Get fucked
Reminder that these threads exist to radicalize you and for no other reason.
>>738654665its all that remote server side shit that is the "extra effort" nobody actually wants, retard
>>738654705Seatbelts protect people from dying you fucking retardThere's no reason that people who have a game that nobody has played in years should be olibgated to support it>>738654708They should have limited obligation yeah, not one that stretches out to infinity
>>738654718>anticonsumerSuch a retarded wordYou might aswell start calling any game you don't like "anti-consumer"
>>738654757that was not a problem for 99% of consumers for over 10 years, now the 1% of loud voices think they should be able to dictate shit
>>738654792they radicalized me and not I hate Israel and corporations what's next?
>>738654806>They should have limited obligation yeah, not one that stretches out to infinityWhat skg asks is a limited obligation.
>>738654346>online services enabling major featuresThere is a difference between online features not being supported and a single player game not loading in because the DRM fails to phone home or some other bullshit. For example, do you think that a single player game with an optional multplayer element (Spec Ops:The Line) should stop working entirely just because the studio doesn't want to keep the multiplayer servers up?
>>738654713It's very fascinating that those become a problem now.Why wasn't that a problem in the past?Did someone perhaps create that problem and now it's being fixed?
>>738654846A limited obligation that lasts foreverIt should not last forever
>>738654757lets cut all prices to 5 bucks then to match the "unspecified rental period" price range
>>738654831correctcry about it
>>738654883What part of it do you think makes it last forever exactly?
>>738654818aha! jew yells crime as he robs you
>>738649625>That's not how software worksYeah, we're telling them how it should work, because how it currently works is retarded.
>>738654924If you release a service game, if you decide to shut down this game AT ANY POINT you are obligated to make it work offline or issue a refundSo if you made a live service game 20 years ago and nobody has played it in 19 years you are still obligated to do thisThat's dumb
>>738649846OY VEY! SHUT DOWN!
>>738654831sorry, but you will stop being raped by companies and you will enjoy it
>>738654873>Bringing up phone home DRMThat's fucking hilarious, anon, because the single biggest sentiment from people calling SKG a gaggle of retards is "you should have limited your ask to disabling phone home DRM."No one has a problem with patching out phone-home checks and if SKG were just about that there would be zero arguments.
>>738654983real deal or merely pretending?
>>738649696do not forget niggers.They worship israel and niggers.
>>738650350it's funny how times change10/20 years ago this type of opinion would've been taking seriously
>>738654881Try again ESL
>>738655025what?
>>738649696Why do non-Americans sign agreements and then try to get governments to let them go back on those terms of agreement?Why don't you care about precedent?
>>738655019they would find some excuse if you are too specific
>>738649625>We're asking you to stop this bill because people don't own digital products they buy and we want to keep it that way.Wow, what a counterargument. Surely it will be effective against SKGs argument that you wouldn't want a book dealer to come to your house and take away your book whenever he pleases.
>>738654983>So if you made a live service game 20 years ago and nobody has played it in 19 years you are still obligated to do thisNo part of skg is retroactive, like the majority of laws. Meaning it will not apply to any game released before it went into effect and such laws usually have a transition period to not catch the industry pants down the day it's signed into law.
>>738649696>AmericansThis is not a uniquely American thing, European industry groups are missing and shitting themselves too.
>>738655071They were trying to le ebic pwn you but they're an indian with the English skills of a six year old
>>738654983Again, it doesn't apply to old games, plus subscription games would be allowed just like before
>>738655070I'm sorry, is this better for you?It’s very fascinating that those have become a problem now.Why wasn’t that a problem in the past?Did someone perhaps create that problem, and now it’s being fixed?
>>738655095Your response is retarded on too many levels to go into.
>>738655126>>738655148Who said anything about it being retroactive you idiots? I'm imagining this 20 years in the future
>>738655071real deal thennext time try not to make a fool of yourself by actually reading (or hell just listening to one of the hearings) about the argument at handwho am I kidding you're just arguing in bad faith fuck off tourist crawl back from whatever shithole you came from
>>738655209The second point still stands, this law wouldn't apply to subscription games
>>738655163>I'm sorryNot sorry enough >Is this betterNo, it's still completely nonsensical and fixing your shit grammar doesn't change the context.You clearly lack the english skills to understand a discussion this complicated so kindly fuck off to a board in a language you aren't retarded in.
>>738650350America is the least free country in the western worldHaving more consumer rights = more freedom
>>738649846Every fucking time dude, it stopped being funny ages ago
>>738655243Go home ESL
The corpos are starting to get desperate.Your turn.
>>738655209>I'm imagining this 20 years in the futureSo what the issue? Games of today have to make dedicated server support so people can play the game when dev support stops. All games already did this 14 years ago with no issues. You're essentially an Apple shill saying that people don't understand Apple phones absolutely need to be hot glued together because basic screws every phone and iPod had in 2010 is just too hard to do.
>>738655019This entire movement started out because The Crew, a game with a completely functional single player mode became inaccessible after Ubisoft shut down the multiplayer server that isn't needed for the single player element in the first place. That was the core issue, DRM phoning is just another side objective.
>>738654840For you? Prison.
Are you kids really this desperate for any sense of belonging or agencyThis is pathetic
>>738655092What are you talking about?
>>738655243You don't have an argument and you're just mindlessly seethingNothing I said is "bad faith", this is a legitimate point>>738655251I don't see how that's relevant
>>738655258Did you know that you need to capitalize 'English' even when it’s the name of the language?
>>738655317>All games already did this 14 years ago with no issuesGames as a service barely existed 14 years agoYou're essentially saying "make games this way not that way" for no good reason
>>738651868Every western country does
>>738649625They are right, though
>>738655318>This isn't about or limited to phone home DRMI know, ESL, that's what I said and that's the problem.Why do people that can't speak more than basic conversational english try to have these discussions about complex legal rights and software logistics? You can't do it. You just sound like petulant children.
>>738655209A pretty stupid point. If the game is breaking the law in the first place and no one care enough to sue the dev for it, then there is nothing to discuss. Some random AG won't bother enforcing law on product no one even uses.
>>738655380>You don't have an argumentvery uronic coming from a corporate shill
>>738655364Sir the license for that book expired today, as a publisher I just decided today is the day. Hand it over you don't own it anymore. Naturally you won't get your money back.Sir, you bought that lantern but its subscription ended. I'll be taking that.Sir your stuffed angry owl cannot be supported by our animal stuffer corporation, therefore we're now going to burn it. Step aside.
Muslim shitskin status?
>>738655454See>>738655382
>>738655382>Harping on capitalization in informal text >Completely ignoring that the sentence concluded with a prepositionBegone ESL.
>>738655471"the law won't be enforced when I don't want it to be" is not a good argument for passing a law lmao
>>738654831>You should stop fighting for your rights because the Marvel masses act like cattle.No, fuck them and fuck you too
>>738655380>I don't see how that's relevantThe game should offer a subscription and not a misleading purchase price so you know when it expires
>>738655435>Consumer rights are not a good reason.>slurp slurp slurp aahh oohhh corporate cock mmm slurp
Only retards think this will apply to anything but those pay-once-play-forever live service games. How many of those even exists? Nobody plays them.
>>738653740How much do they pay you?
>>738655548freedom hater! commie! anti-semite!
>>738655487>It's about consumer rights!I remember this trick It's just like when you morons called harassing hobby press "protecting journalistic integrity"Get a new one
>>738655512The evidence points that you do not speak English.You don't understand content, context or words in general.That is the only reason why you would be unable to understand what people are writing to you.In short: you're a retarded faggot.
>>738655542A game doesn't need to offer a subscription for you to know when it expires>>738655548"consumer rights" on its own means nothingyou could have a consumer right that consumers are entitled to everything ever made for free, in the long run it would ultimately make everything worse
Why won't you fucking MONSTERS leave the poor multi-billion dollar companies alone? They have done so much for us and you just want more, more more!
>>738655454So what's your point? They should've thrown out the core issue that brought this on in the first place because it makes some mouthbreathing mutts foam at the mouth?
>>738649625I saw ESA and was utterly confused for a moment how the European Space Agency got tangled up in this lmao.Also, that opposal proposition is fucking wild and I assume that they are aware but they have no idea how they should oppose it in a rational way.>that consumers "own" digital gamesThey are opening Pandora's Box with this one. Clearly claiming that digital products are not products now that digital goods are slowly being recognized and protected in the EU seems like a self-goal.>ignores how games workThe bill proposal is not retroactive and I'd bet anything that they know it but can't respond in fair.>no software product is required to remain available to consumers indeinitelyThey wish. I still have floppy disk software that I am legally allowed to use because that's how the transaction was (and have always been) made. You get to use your software until the data disk gets broken.>legal and technical obligationsLicenses are for the publishers, not the customers. It means for how long they can keep selling things with those properties, not for how long a customer is allowed to be in posession of the content.>without necessary infrastructureAgain, not retroactive but also much-much smaller games (Knockout City) cobbled together a full private server edition in a few months. Fun fact, they also made every single microtransaction completely free for everyone so that's also a very generous way to get around the whole "stolen money" concept but we all know big companies don't want to do that.>AB 1921 will result in fewer gamesAh yes, just like how mandating USB-C resulted in fewer phones right?This entire thing smells like a haphazard attempt at trying to misinform others (badly, I might add), rather than mounting a proper response.If this is the best they can do, I am genuinely unafraid as a supporter of SKG:
>>738655625>The evidence points that you do not speak EnglishFucking hilarious
>>738652613Ban selling videos games as a service.
>Protect Our Games Going Extinct Really Soontop kekold
>>738655641>Licenses are for the publishers, not the customers.They're for the customers
>>738655629>A game doesn't need to offer a subscription for you to know when it expiresOf course it does, if there's no date except "at any time" it's only guessing. If it's a subscription of 1 month, 1 year or even longer then you know exactly when it's time to renew or if the servers are gonna shut down. The point is SKG isn't going to make any of this illegal, just clarify the terms to gamers
>>738649625>>738655641>>that consumers "own" digital gameslmao I only just noticed they put "own" in quotations fucking holy shitAs the kids say: they are so fucking cooked.
>>738655019Publishers are extremely dishonest about the necessity of their online services. Blizzard insisted that Diablo 3 had to be online, that it was literally impossible to remove the online functionality, then years later released a console version that can run completely offline. I do not trust publishers to be up front about their game's reliance on an internet connection, so it has to be all encompassing.
>>738655629>"consumer rights" on its own means nothingMicrosoft gave you a phonecall, return your computer you paid a price for it but now they want it back.
>>738655625>The evidence points **to** that you do not speak English.Here you go buddy.
>>738649625>Most games require online servers and authentication.what the hell are they on about?
>>738655739You can simply have a game you purchase and an expiration date given to you when you buy it
>>738655179I accept your concession
>>738655521You are the one making the point that the law will have to be enforced no matter what. As a side note, if a developer makes a game after the law as passed without considering his legal obligations then it is a failure on his part in the first place. It still doesn't stretch into infinity because it is a requirement that should have been planned for from the start. It's like voluntarily selling a defective product and claiming that when it does causes problems decades later, the seller shouldn't be held responsible.
>>738649696Americans are a strange folk
>>738655771When they brick a live service game they aren't taking anything from you, they're shutting down the servers meaning your game won't work any moreIt's like the electricity company shutting off your power
>>738655583
>>738655641>You get to use your software until the data disk gets broken.Actually no. Your ownership is not tied to the media. You could request a replacement media if you had a license even 20 years ago. Only thing you'd have to do is cover the cost of the replacement, not a new licence.
>>738649625Some intern wrote this kek
>>738655798>It still doesn't stretch into infinity because it is a requirement that should have been planned for from the startIt does stretch to infinity. Your argument is just "well I don't care"
>>738655784That sounds like a subscription to me
>>738655823>they're shutting down the servers meaning your game won't work any moreSo they are taking it away from you after all. No reason they shouldn't and couldn't put basic dedicated server support so game owners can start their own servers.
>>738655875A subscription is a recurring payment
>>738652808Because >bribing is illegal but "political donations" aren't>there is precedent setting spending money as a form of speech because of course there is
>>738655886Is it really that hard to grasp how a server works
>>738655894It would be if the gamer decides to renew the licence to game
>>738655875Subscription is not one time payment.
>>738649846There it is.
>>738654818Well if you design a game where you can just release the server binaries easy peasy now you go to jail.I'm okay with that.
>>738655935We're talking about paying once for a game, being given an expiry date and after that the game shuts down
>>738655927Apparently to modern devs it is when they're so reluctant to give basic server creation support for their customers.
>>738655952>I'm okay with people going to jail because they design a game in a way I don't like
>>738649696They are the enteral loyal golem.
>>738655862It lasts only has long has the legal entity responsible for it exists, which is by definition not infinite. You are not making a any argument as to why you think it is infinite, you are just claiming it is.
>>738655972>being given an expiry dateSKG doesn't oppose that, as long as that expiration date is given at the time of the purchase and not later on to deceive people into thinking they're buying perpetual ownership.
>>738649625what's funnier to me is that LITERALLY ALL of their points that they claim are false or impossible to implement have been true and perfectly doable not only for the vast majority of the time videogames have been a thing, but even to this current day.The premise they claim to oppose isn't real, nowhere in any point of the SKG it argues that consumers "own" games, they own their COPY of the game.The vast majority of games are indeed static products and NOT dynamic software, and even when they are, it's really not that hard to simply stop updating them, they do that each and every time they stop supporting any other game that they still keep on selling, arguing it's impossible it's arguing agaisnt provable facts.There is no mandated legal obbligation when it comes to licensing and copyright, and this is the most subtle and sneaky point, as there are plenty of games which, once the license expires, they stop selling but still allow to download, and a perfect example is Transformers Devastation, their license to use the brand expired, so the game is removed from stores, but if you had already bought it and have it in your library, you can still download it at any time, proving that allowing already owned product to be downloaded from servers despite the license expiring is literally not a legal issue whatsoever.Lasty, those fixes that they claim are "not technically possible" due to online dependency have been easily implemented by amateur programmers in multiple games and their system adjusted to no longer depending on being online, so arguing that an entire professional dev team can't do what amateur fans can is fallacious at best, and lying at worse.Quite LITERALL, this shit presents untrue and verifiably false arguments as if they could ever hold up scrutiny, they don't.
>>738656039>It lasts only has long has the legal entity responsible for it existsThat's effectively infinity, so long as your company exists you have this obligationThis law might actually reasonable if it had a maximum period of 2 years or something
>>738656056>SKG doesn't oppose thatI've never seen them say that at all
>>738655862The argument is comply or go to jail.And since they'll comply gaming will be far better for the consumer going forward.
>>738655629you can still host your gacha free2pay sloppa. as long as you stamp a tentative EoS date on it before shipping itwhy does this make you shit your pants and cry over a date?
>>738656129See >>738655739>The point is SKG isn't going to make any of this illegal, just clarify the terms to gamers
>>738656139>gaming will be far better for the consumerIt won'tThis law is being pushed forward simply because gamers are angry at game producersIt wouldn't result in better or worse games if it got passed
>>738655772No that's still a fucking tortured sentence that only a foreigner with no exposure to natural speech would say.The best I can do to fix it would be "The evidence points to you not speaking english" or "The evidence points to the conclusion that you don't speak english," but those are both still extremely odd ways to phrase that sentiment.
>>738656175That's what you said, I've never seen it said by anyone or anything representing SKG
>>738656129https://youtu.be/oXcogLmxnJw?si=trXDSNt4qTd6Afen&t=83Heres the timestamp, enjoy.
>>738649625I skimmed over this paper and all I got is: "we are greedy pieces of shit so keep pirating and don't give us money". Thanks I will do just that ESA
>>738655765>Blizzard said this one version of Diablo had to be online then spent time and money developing a different version.... okay?
>>738656013Yes actually. Break the law go to jail. I will have my server binary.
>>738656238He's talking about subscription gamesI'm talking about games that aren't subscriptions but still have servers and can still be shut down
>>738649696That and because they worship corporations. Attempting to hurt their hold on the populace is both a sin and a crime>>738650350>implying picrel.
>>738656098>a maximum period of 2 years or somethingThe only real solution is that the purchase states minimal length of a service. That way subscription games and f2p are fine and nobody get's fucked over by paying money for a game that might be closed a day after.
>>738656293I bet you wish you got to live in the USSR
Commies starting to write walls of text on how they're winning bigly
>>738655995They license overpriced proprietary software for their servers that they don't have the rights to redistribute, so they wouldn't have the right to release server software. There's probably more retarded layers of licenses that prevent the release, but the whole concept of software licenses needs to be re-examined considering we need lawyers to write a short novel regarding user rights and restrictions every time something is published. If SKG puts that in motion as a result, good.
>>738649625You will not "own" your software and you will "be" happy. That is how licensed society works
>>738656312>He's talking about subscription gamesHe's talking about both. Now shut your dumb tranny mouth and watch that video before you embarrass yourself more.
>>738656359>the whole concept of software licenses needs to be re-examinedDo you have any better ideas?
>>738656279They didn't. Hackers where also able to remove the always online feature my making the game think it was online.Basically blizzard STARTED development to use always online as a form of drm and also to make sure they could have their cash shop work without players modding.Under a new law and paradigm blizzard would never design such a game in that way ever again.
>>738656086>I DIDN'T SAY BREAK THE PIGGY BANK I JUST SAID GIVE ME THE MONEY INSIDE PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN ME MONEY BEFORE IT'S NOT HARD SHOW ME WHERE I SAID BREAK THE PIGGY BANK
>>738656317>because they worship corporationsIsn't that japan? and USA is the land of freedom?
>>738656098>That's effectively infinityIf they effectively still exist, then they still have to obey their legal obligations. If they can't fulfil their legal obligations then they are open to litigation, that's how the law works. I'm going back to my defective product comparison. You can't just claim that because it's been decades, you aren't responsible for it anymore.>a maximum period of 2 years or somethingFrom what date?
>>738656382He literally said subscription based games
>>738656359>we need lawyers to write a short novel regarding user rights and restrictions every time something is publishedThat applies to anything that is worth more than a few dolars.
>>738656401retard
>>738650350*laughs in hebrew*
>>738656409>You can't just claim that because it's been decades, you aren't responsible for it anymore.You should be able to if nobody is using the fucking product anymoreNobody should be obligated to support something nobody is using
>>738656391Anon you're not making a very good case for a legal requirement here
>>738656101>a phone screenshot of a reddit page screenshot of a twitter post
>>738656412>"I want proof!">Didn't watch the proof. Makes claims about a video he didn't watch.Concession accepted. Another corporate cocksucker turned out to be a retarded tranny.
>>738656401>if I keep repeating my retarded strawman, it won't be retarded
>>738656341Oh man making it corporations don't just straight fuck you in the ass every day = Marxist leninism.
>>738650982All that would happen is that gacha games would release an unlocked version when they EOS. It does nothing to change their running circumstance. If anything they'll have an easier time justifying their strategies. Some gacha that ended service have already done this in the past
>>738656401Not an argument
>>738656491I watched it, he said subscripton based games
>>738656501I accept your concession
>>738656461>if nobody is using the fucking product anymorelol, how do you determine that? Do you think they closed The Crew down because people were still playing it?
>>738649625The funniest thing to me is the closing statement stated that this would result in less innovation when the games this law primarily affects are those who do actually require permanently online servers and authentication, which for the most part are live service games with microtransactions up the ass. Basically the LEAST innovative games out there, unless the innovation is referring to the different methods they can grab the customers cash whilst playing.
>>738656512You literally said "I want something for free and if you don't give it to me you should go to jail"
>>738649625>AB 1921 is seeking to create a new consumer right>AB 1921 is not a consumer protection billKEK
>>738656538>how do you determine thatIf you run a server you know when people are connecting to it
>>738656523>still didn't watch the videoEnjoy your last (You).
>>738649625They're right
>>738656474What that we never have to deal with bullshit designs ever again and if we're patient we'd end up with a games server binaries and get to have that early 2000s experience again.Oh no
>>738656401here, i'll translate what that anon said in a language you can understant>WE CAN'T DO WHAT CAUSUE IT'S ILLEGAL AND IMPOSSIBLE TO DO EVEN IF EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT JUST FINE AND DOING IT LEGALLY, WE JUST CANT CAUSE....UH....IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO AND ILLEGAL, YEAH
>>738656461Once again, open to litigation doesn't mean you get automatically sued. If no cares enough to sue and the seller wants to take the risk then it's his problem.
>>738656580I watched the video you deranged lunatic
>>738649625companies be like:>we had to shut down GAME 3, we can't run the servers forever, we know you love GAME 3 and wasted thousands on it but you have to learn to let go....>very next year>GAME 3: REMASTER. BUY NOW!
>>738656616"nobody will bother enforcing the law" is not a good argument for passing a law
>>738649625>it needs to give notice and provide a remedy — a playable version, a patch, or a refund.A refund for a game you might've bought 10 years ago and never played is a fucking ridiculous suggestionAnd some form of a patch or a playable version would be reliant on online servers anyways, just different ones. What happens when the service those files are hosted on gets nuked?None of that's even getting into potential legal or technical issues where a game may not technically function anyways due to reasons beyond the publishers control or may be forced to be removed due to legal reasons. What then?
>>738656534
>>738656553For free no I paid for a product. The law would dictate either they design that product with server binaries to be released at some point or a listen server framework.Cars are legally required to have seatbelts and that's fine by me as well
>>738649625
I assume most people taking anti-SKG stands are just trolls because not even shills are this retarded.
>>738656698You didn't pay for server binaries
>>738650131a lot of software, proprietary or not, have a no liability clause in their license for this exact scenario
>>738656714they will be included in the price soon enough
>>738656646You are making up a really specific case where the law is unlikely to be enforced in the first place so why would you expect something else?"Actually we should have laws to punish murder, because statutes of limitations exist." is essentially what you argument amounts to.
>>738656667Then I just self host the server binary.
>>738649625Funny how NONE of these were a problem before 2007
>>738650350The only reason you're not allowed to hack your own games to work offline tho is because the state gave IP holders copyright, which is a state enforced monopoly
>>738656759>a really specific caseDo you know how many dead multiplayer games exist?
>>738656759>shouldn't* have laws to punish murder
>>738656714When I bought Minecraft it came with the server binaries. This will just extend that by law to every game. That or listen hosts or p2p
>>738656576My point was you need a objectively verifiable criteria if you want to apply law to it or let it be unregulated. Publisher/provider is not really an objective entity.
>>738656408Where do you think Japan gets it from? They're an american colony.
>>738649625Damn cocksuckers, crying that they can't press enough money out of customers
>>738656810That amounts to>Make games the way I like them or go to jail
>>738656461I've bought games in the 90s that I am not actively playing, but I will want to play again in the future. I can play these games again because games companies respected their customers more in the 90s. I should be able to buy a game today, put it on a shelf for 20 years and be able to play it.
Stop killing games is absolutely disingenuous. Nobody cares about 10 year old games. They are worth nothing at this point. The true reason it is being pushed is because it is an underhanded attempt to destroy games as service model. It is obviously an attack against freedom to conduct business and I really hope games as service die in a fire with at least a few top execs getting a luigi treatment.
>>738650350HAHAHAHAHAHAgood goy, good.
>>738656804How many of them were made under a legal obligation to keep then relatively functioning without developer intervention?That's a paltry argument.
>>738656872>games companies respected their customers more in the 90slmao good one
>>738656864glad you understandbetter comply corpocuck
>>738656864Yes and car companies have to make cars the way I won't to or they go to jail.Food companies have to make food the way I want to or they go to jail.Aka they have to make them in such a way to benefit the end consumer and thus the market as a whole.
>>738649846I'M SHOCKED
>>738650350Except when it comes to giving your money to Israel, of course.
>>738649696fpbp>>738652808You really don't understand how fiercely the distinction was drilled into us even as early as K-12 education, among other other bizarre focuses. Lobbying was always made out to be a noble difference between us and other "corrupt" states. Not a single time was it ever presented in a critical light or anything along the lines of a revolving door between industry and politics brought up. Ancillary to this, it's no surprise years later seeing just how much impact Ghislaine's father, Robert Maxwell, had on American education through McGraw Hill textbooks that were ubiquitous were in every class
>>738656801It's bit more complicated. One major reason is because circumventing sw protection is illegal. Modding your game to make it offline is not.
>>738656864>Allow consumers to keep using the product they paid for or face consequences for actively stopping themYes.
>>738656903Legally obligating people to keep their games running forever is retarded
>>738656401>no you must break the piggy back, there's no other possible waywhat a retarded analogy
>>738656763And how long is the publisher required to provide those available and where? Can they take further action if they decide someone is misusing the server binaries or redistributing them without permission?
>>738656941>Yes and car companies have to make cars the way I won't to or they go to jail.No they don't. They do have to make them in a way that's SAFE or go to jail. But just because you don't like red cars doesn't mean red cars should be outlawed
>>738649625>billcorpos should treat people better>corposNOOOOOOOO!about sums it up
>>738656864And.....? What exactly is the problem? You as a consumer stand to purely benefit off this.
>>738655258saar! talk english saar or else!
>>738656984ford says hi and lol
>>738657007Adults can see an argument from both sides and not act purely out of unenlightened self-interest
>>738656912Not by choice but games being on physical discs forced them to do beta testing. Marketing culture being different forced them to make games good. Lack of ideology grants made them do actually interesting stories. They just couldn't shit in your mouth like they can now.
>>738656961It is not what is being asked.
>>738656912Where's the lie? Today's games business practices would make a whore blush
>>738656994More like>Do this one little thing to let people enjoy things longer>NO THATS IMPOSSIBLE IT CANT BE DONE YOUR DELUSIONAL YOU DONT UNDERSTAND
>>738656903>relatively functioningUntil you can determine what "relatively functioning" objectively mean, no legal obligation will ever work.
>>738657039i really dont care about billionaires
>>738657052Do you know how many shit and buggy games existed in the 90s
>>738649625The whole thing boils down to >it's soooo hawd to make games wowk wike befowe (it's not) pweeeeese wet us continue fucking you goy-kun
>>738657064It is, it's a obligation that lasts forever
>>738656389No, but I'm just a concerned citizen, not a subject matter expert or legal expert. I'm not obligated by any means to have even an idea of the solution. If you want to continue down this line of logic, I'm going to need you to post foreskin, ocular distance, and a profile of your face clearly showing your nose shape.
>>738656086This. The whole "obligated licensing thing" is so fucking retarded and hilarious. I own a copy of both GTA San Andreas for PS2 and Guitar Hero 3 for PS3. Neither of those need the perpetual licensing of copyrighted music. I just fucking own the content they sold me in perpetuity. That's it. That's the end of it. Music labels aren't gonna storm my house and demand I pay royalties for every song in those games every month until I destroy the copies. I just own my copy and that's the end of it.The whole license thing argument is corporate greed at the most retarded level
>>738657039funny you say that because "adults" working for corporations and funny hat wearers can't
>>738657078Imagine thinking everyone who makes a game is a billionaire
>>738657039>from both sides>the other side is a corporation that doesnt give a flying fuck about you and wants to fleece you for everything you have and then somelolBut I'll play your game. What's the argument from the other side you represent?
>>738657052Do you remember how many games still had gamebreaking bugs? Many of those never got fixed.
>>738656994This is like how ecoterrorists go on and on about animal rights, then break into a kennel or something to free the animals, and 99% of those animals end up fucking dead by the end of the week because the outside world is not a place for a fucking poodleAdvocating for change without understanding its consequences, not because you actually give a shit, but because it's fun to be an activist
>>738656701if the humans were a nazi allegory does that mean the bugs are jews?
>>738657097Not 99% of them like in 2026
>>738657152The other side is developers are forced to do extra work that doesn't realistically benefit anyone
>>738652815>The left testicle unloading sperm into my destroyed, raped ass is closer to me than the right testicle unloading sperm into my destroyed, raped ass
>>738657121> I own a copy of both GTA San Andreas for PS2 and Guitar Hero 3 for PS3. Neither of those need the perpetual licensing of copyrighted music. I just fucking own the content they sold me in perpetuity. That's it. That's the end of itSHUT UP GOY, HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT THAT GAMES WITH FIXED-TERM LICENSING AGREEMENTS STILL WORK TO THIS DAYYOU'RE BEING AN ANTI-SEMITE. YOU BIGOT!
>>738657142who do you think pushes games to be always online live service games
>>738656873>No one cares about 10 year old gamesPlenty of people care about old 10 year old games. Fortnite, Minecraft and Roblox have very healthy playerbases.I care about South Park: The Stick of Truth, Bayonetta 2 and Metal Gear Solid V
>>738657227jews
>>738657153Anon you disingenuous corporate cock sucker beta testing was an actual thing that was done back then. You are convincing no one that quality is better now. Quality is trash and it is left to customer to beta test your game.
>>738656873>Nobody caresAccording to who?
>>738657119The legal obligation is perpetual because law is mostly perpetual as long as it is in effect. Keeping the games running at the buyer's level is a one and done thing, not something that requires developers continued involvement.
>>738650350Amerigolems only want to meddle in other country's affairs
>>738657282>The legal obligation is perpetual because law is mostly perpetualer nomost things like this have time limitsyou know, 2 year warrantieswhy the fuck should this last forever
>>738657191>extra worklike what? Not implementing a kill switch?
>>738656873>Nobody cares about 10 year old gamesyet you're posting in a thread about said games. curious
>>738656873rockstar's main revenue source die if you kill the servers for their 10+ year old games
>>738657313You have to make the game self-hostable and remove the live service parts
>>738656086>as there are plenty of games which, once the license expires, they stop selling but still allow to downloadFor legitimate customers who paid for it, yes. But if the game is free? Then no.The licenses expiring means they're not allowed to give the product to new customers. Which means there'll still need to be a way of authenticating old customers which in today's world means online servers that will eventually die.
>>738657075Not really. If a difference of opinion arises of how the law should be understood and applied, it'll go to court and create precedent. None of that needs objectivity.
>>738657274I don't give a fuck who tests the game if I can't finish it. You have much more options now than you had back then.
>>738657346And something unpaid modders have been able to do forever within a week of free time is a crushing workload.....how?
>>738656873I exclusively care about games from 10+ years ago simply because they stopped making games for people like me around 2015.
>>738649625>this bill is based on a false premise: that consumers “own” digital games with permanent access. I’m one step closer to realising how AM felt the level hatred he did
>>738657406Where did I say it was a crushing workload?
>>738657418what was the last game made for you?
>>738657312Warranties expiring do not disable the use of a product for the buyer.
>>738657312>why the fuck should this last foreverBecause it's not a physical item that decays, degrades or needs maintenance, you idiot
>>738652808In theory, politicians don't know every single details about every single subjects so they need people who know about the subjects to tell them about them. Technically, anyone could lobby, from a humble worker to a rich tycoon. In practice, however, the companies have way too much resources and connection that their voices is the only thing that the policians could hear.
>>738657378>it'll go to court and create precedentThat's not how EU law work. Not to mention it's purely subjective matter. Some people will demand online marketplace and social interaction to work while the rest is fine with just single player missions.
>>738656317How is a samurai helmet american culture?
>>738657456It's a server that requires a running computer
>>738657437So if it isnt......what's the problem?
>>738649696They are called Golems for a reason.
>>738657514How would you like it if I passed a law that required you to send me an email every morning saying "good morning"? Surely you don't mind seeing it's not a big deal, just takes 10 seconds
>>738652808>>738657484>idiots think the concept of lobbying is the problem and not the supreme court decision that reclassified campaign donations as speech, removing all limits on handing money to superPACs (superPACs are basically just slush funds with zero oversight)
>>738657486>That's not how EU law work. It is how american law works however.This is the commiefornia law we are talking about here, dumbass. Have you even looked at the OP before posting?
>>738657491>that requires a running computerYeah. MY computer. You fucking idiot.
>>738649625If you didn't purchase your copy of a game for 50k then you didn't buy the servers needed to run it on your own.
>>738657421This has legal precedence though. Consumers very specifically owning nothing but a license is what made the last generation of SecuROM possible where your physical game disc had a limited number of activations and afterwards if you wanted more you were told to buy another copy, and that was 20 fucking years ago.The current account-based ecosystem was chosen voluntarily by consumers as an alternative to that shit.
>>738657456>degrades or needs maintenance, you idiotKeeping ancient servers online is actually quite a hard job.
>>738650350I would rather live in a nanny state than having everything decided by "the private sector". At least I'd get better access to healthcare.
>>738657448titanfall 2
>>738657604we're not talking about health carewe're talking about whether video game companies should have to refactor their games by law at EoS
>>738657552Quite a few corporations have algoriths and bots that do this already, so I guess by your analogy you're saying this "problem" is a complete non-issue.Or would you like to try again? Maybe use a food analogy this time?
>>738657608Don't you want to play apex legends like chinese haha bird does?
>>738657657My analogy is nobody likes getting their freedom taken away for no fucking reason
>>738657153>>738657385kike or jeet?
>>738657585Nothing is needed from the developer once they have made the changes though.
being anti-GAAS is a retarded stance because gaming would barely be profitable without them
>>738657552what a retarded ass strawmankill yourself kike
>>738657681no, I want a solid singleplayer campaign with a killer multiplayer as a bonus. no additional bullshit, no outside agendas. just a good video game
>>738649960Some things are best left between consumers and producers without running to mommy government and asking it to be even more authoritarian. If you don't like the idea of your online only game disappearing one day, don't fucking buy it.
>>738657693Corporations aren't people.>b-b-but the laws says!!!!Corporations aren't people.
>>738657729How will you get the game to your computer once it has been patched into being playable fully offline?
>>738657745Gaming was unprofitable before gaas?
>>738657693.....Their freedom to take away my paid and owned product?That's the "problem"? The argument "from the other side"?
>>738657775>>738657039
>>738657745Stop the hand rubbing, moshe, I can hear it from here.
>>738652808>how is lobbying even legal? why the fuck can a corportation with 100 billion dollars at their disposal just legally message a politican and tell them they will give them money if they do their bidding?The average congressman isn’t gonna turn down career advancements, family wealth, and what have you for “integrity”.That’s what happens when you’re a Republic (representatives) instead of a Democracy (directly voting for shit).While the founding fathers writing the constitution were shitting their pants at the people irresponsibly voting to drain the treasury, it never occured to their dumbasses thatA. Those same people would be voting in a the representatives, sometimes even smaller portions with even lower IQsB. Those same fucking representatives could just drain the entire treasury to put into their own pocketsAnd modern day retards actually praise how the US “isn’t a democracy, it’s a republic” when literally thing bad about this fucking country was done by representatives going against voters will, like that californian judge who ruled that illegal immigrant can still get the benefits citizens have.
>>738657795The freedom to make games without having regulations to dictate how they're made
>>738657787no but it didnt cost an arm and a leg to make to produce them
>>738650350Whatever you say Speedstormshill
>>738649696protestantism
>>738657843If it costs so much why is it universally shit?
>>738657729You wish. Have you never seen people trying different versions of gpu drivers just to make their games work? This applies to any software. And over the time you will not even be able to get a hardware to run it.
>>738657779There is no requirement to keep a game downloadable at all time. It's up to the buyer to keep their own files in working order.
>>738654303Almost all online games are broken up into things which are handled on the client side and the server side to prevent cheating. You only bought the client yet both would be required to keep the game running forever is one of them. THe other main one is a willful misunderstanding of how time works with retards demanding that the devs tell them when the game will sunset before it even launches when the data used to decide to shut it all down is not available before launch.
>>738650350>Americans value freedom>Gets arrested for trying to walk across their city instead of paying 20k for a car and $100 to a petrol company.
>>738657840....so, freedom to make games with built-in killswitches?
>>738657941In this case it's the freedom to make any game that connects to a server
>>738649846every single time without fail
>>738657840you can still make your stupid live-service slop. just TELL PEOPLE IN ADVANCE WHEN IT ENDS so they don't get duped
>>738649625>I'm sorry sir, but making an online game that can be played on a private server is just not possible>KNOCKOUT CITY WAS ABLE TO DO THIS IN A CAVE, WITH BOX OF SCRAPS!
>>738657886>And over the time you will not even be able to get a hardware to run it.That's why community patches and emulators like dosbox exist.
>>738657745Don't threaten me with a good time
>>738649846lmao
>>738657984>you can still make your stupid live-service slop. just TELL PEOPLE IN ADVANCE WHEN IT ENDSI'd be agreeing with you if this was the case, but according to Ross unless it's a subscription-based game you have to release the server
If a shoe company found a way to force people to pay subscription for their shoes and the shoes fall apart if the subscription isn't paid, should it be legal?
>>738657984What game doesn't do this by at least a few months?
>>738657998dosbox is popular and quite simple. Imagine keeping win11 or some specific of linux distribution alive.
>>738658020no you don't. just give people the EoS datepeople don't like having their money stolen by scummy companies
>>738657843Maybe the industry leaders should reconsider how they make games then since smaller devs don't seem to have that problem.
>>738658072Again, I 100% agree with you, but that's not what Ross is saying
>>738657981nigger almost every non-MMO multiplayer game before 2007 can still be played today, what's so hard about that
>>738650131???????They're not even liable for vulnerabilities in ACTIVE games what the fuck are you talking about
>>738657981games that connect to a server can and should still be playable without them......Unless they're designed not to? Is that the freedom you're advocating for?
>>738650350Then the "nanny-state" also shouldn't meddle in corporate affairs, like bailing out companies when they go bankrupt or enfore copyright laws right?
>>738658097Nothing
>>738658121I'm advocating for the freedom to design games that require connecting to a server to be playedThis can be used for good or evil
>>738658054You say that as if it's difficult to find any old windows version.
>>738657560You're right. I thought we were also talking about SKG's appeal to EU. Although, a law limited to less than half of the customer base is meaningless.
>>738658171>This can be used for good or evilAnd what's the problem the other side has with outlawing the "for evil" use case?
>>738657843Then they should fix their spending problems instead of forcing their customers to foot the bill.GaaS can eat my ass.
>>738650131The only reason anyone thinks this is because gave women voting rights. The only people stupid enough to push for this kind of liability are soccer moms who can't get their autistic kids to stop playing online games and need somebody else to blame besides their own bad parenting.
>>738658273This is just outlawing every use case, not the evil one
>>738658171So you admit it is being used for evil.
>>738658171GAAS games are not Mazinger Z. An evil use of server based games is shutting them down forever after consumers have paid money for them.
>>738650131I didn't know Valve was still updating CS 1.6
>>738657909So as a publisher I can just make the offline patch, give people six months to download it via whatever platform the game is on, remove the game and the patch entirely, and if ever I find someone attempting to redistribute it then I can sue them?
>>738658046concord/highguard had years worth of roadmap planned
>>738658171They are free to design them. Now the devs just have a requirement when they don't want to maintain it anymore.It's like whining that you can't make a car without brakes to sell to the general public because it restricts your "freedom".
>>738658304"game should be playable offline" does not mean outlawing "needing a server connection". Surely the "other side" is aware of this?
>>738658386Which is quite a massive fucking redflag when you think about it.>you're paying the full price now but you're not getting the full game until the next 3 years :)
>>738658245It's difficult to find a right combination of all needed software that works. It's not about just windows.
>>738658376Yes.
>>738658031we are NOT going to debate about "Shoes as a Service" hereIf it's clearly defined as a subscription service telling you how long each subscription lasts then no it's technically not an issue.
>>738658447You should be allowed to end a service when you don't want to maintain it anymore, you shouldn't be required to "liberate" your game, so long as customers know what to expect, how much service they're guaranteed>>738658451>"game should be playable offline" does not mean outlawing "needing a server connection"How are these not two opposites? Either you need to connect to a server or you don't
>>738658386Sony gave everyone refunds for Concord due to fear of reputational damage, and Highguard couldn't have implemented an offline patch even if they wanted to because they simply ran out of money
>>738658386And then they launched and got the data they needed to make the decision to shut down. This data is not available before launch so you can't possibly be retarded enough to demand an EoS date before launch, right? When exactly do you want the publishers to give you this date?
>>738649625>AB 1921 will result in fewer gamesIf being consumer friendly means that there are less games because some companies won't be able to make then, then those companies and games do not deserve to exist in a healthy, customer-oriented environment.
>>738658541>How are these not two opposites?By making the server-exclusive content playable offline instead when its time to turn the servers off. As many, MANY games have done in the past. As modders have done in the past.....You still havent explained the argument from the other side, btw.
>>738658541>so long as customers know what to expect, how much service they're guaranteedGames companies do not provide this information at present.
>>738658171your freedoms end where the consumer's rights begin shlomo
>a patch>Server goes down and you can play as usual, aloneHuzzah
>>738658304There is no "good" use case.
>>738658661What they really mean is>there will be less AAA games because we can't scam people as efficiently
>>738658386People forget that all those games were suspicious from the start. The real problem is that people want want to support the worst corpos on market. They should never buy anything from blizzard or ubisoft ever again if they got burned.
>>738658702The argument from the other side is you're not allowed to make a game that has server-exclusive content
>>738658541>You should be allowed to end a service when you don't want to maintain it anymore,They are. They just have an obligation toward the people who paid for it to keep it in a working state at the buyer's level.
>>738649846Every single time
>>738658702Not all online content can be replicated offline. For example Forza Drivatars.
>>738658739I can think of many, outlawing something because you don't see the use in it and it's being used for bad purposes is very dumb
>>738649625Good. Kill games. Stab them and let them bleed out slowly. Suffocate games with a walmart bag. Snipe games from 4,001 meters. Send games to ukrainian trenches. Give games a squirt gun and send them to a black neighborhood. Abort games 7 days after birth. Execute games on the streets of minneapolis. Fill games with microplastics until they wish they were dead. Deliver kinetic strikes to games in the Caribbean sea. Thanos snap games twice. Create a save state then kill games hundreds of times on repeat.
>>738658650At point of sale. Concord and Highguard should not be the products that the games industry wants to emulated and aspire to
>>738658539>we are NOT going to debate about "Shoes as a Service" here>Handrubbing intensifies
>>738658753>you're not allowed to make a game that has server-exclusive content....because when they patch it to be playable offline, it's not "server exclusive" anymore.Are you sure this is the argument you want to make?
>>738658451>JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY IN THE PIGGY BANK I NEVER SAID YOU HAD TO BREAK IT
>>738658760The obligation should be a guaranteed playable period, like a warranty, not releasing the servers to make it playable forever
>>738658848I don't know what you mean
>>738650350Ok. Now go kiss the rabbi's shoes, Hernandez.
>>738649846I'll be honest, even I'm starting to nootice
>>738649625Just release your game and server as free software when you want to shut it down, why is this so hard for modern game companies?
>>738649873Yet another W for Gabe then.
>>738658760Everyone is avoiding what this really means, it wont mean you can play multiplayer or open your own server. It means you'll have a single player game
>>738658840Highguard best-before date would've been the date of launch then. Their funding only covered development, and anything beyond that was going to come from the microtransactions within the game itself.They were never able to guarantee operation beyond any date after the launch itself.
>>738650350you set frogposters back a decade with this fuckhead
>>738650350Quintessential american post.
>>738658810>I can think of manySuch as?
>>738658869A warranty doesn't completely cut off all access to something you bought after it expires. There is no legal, logical or moral reason it should apply here.
>>738658967MMOs
>>738658840And how the fuck are they supposed to know when they'll shut it down at any point when someone buys it? How is it do you think publishers make the decision to wrap it up?
>>738658976logical reason is the devs don't have to keep their servers running or doing maintenance patches
>>738658950Then put that on the sales page
>>738650350Americans only care about stopping government regulation when it threatens corporations. They don’t give a shit if it hurts the individual
Californians should not be heard, Californians should not have human rights, as they are not human, but sub-human.
>>738658891>they're outlawing server-exclusive content>by making it playable offline when it's time for the servers to go down>and that's badIs this the argument your "other side" wants to present?I recommend against feigning ignorance, it's much too late for that now.
>>738649696What do you want me to do about it?
>>738659038They did. Did you not read the license agreement? Service may be terminated at any moment without any notice for any reason.Same exact shit that is in the license agreement for every single other game or non-game software you've ever purchased or otherwise used.
>>738659019Then tell the consumer that at the checkout
>>738659115It puts an obligation on the dev to make it playable offline, it's extra work to do, that's the other side of the argument
>>738659038>yeah just put on the store page that you can't guarantee your game will stay alive, that won't bring about its deathIf you want games to not die, why are you advocating for that which would kill more games?
>>738658869Reprogramming the game to add server functions to the client may be more effort than publishing server binaries or server source code (supposing nothing is proprietary). It's really a case-by-case issue and a question of what the developer had prepared for an EoL plan if anything.
>>738658819>Thanos snap games twice.Why ruin a great post with this gay reddit shit?
>WHY WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE POOR MULTI-BILLION DOLLARS COMPANIES?!>FORCING INNOCENT COMPANIES TO NOT SCAM AND ABUSE THEIR CUSTOMERS IS COMMUNISM! THEY SHOULDN'T BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR IT!>THINK OF THE POOR INDIE DEVELOPER WHO WANT TO MAKE A MULTI-TRILLION DOLLAR GAAS!>I COULD BE A CEO ONE DAY AND REGULATIONS COULD AFFECT ME!
>>738659170Tell them what? That the information they need to determine when the game will close is not yet available? Don't you fucking assume that as a baseline when you buy an online game?
>>738659031SKG doesn't ask devs to keep servers running or doing maintenance patches though.
>>738659004I said GOOD use cases.
>>7386589105 years ago I was basically a woke faggot that would neeever eeever be antisemitic :^)It didn't have to be this way, but they're not giving me many options.
>>738658801Counter-argument: ALL online content can be replicated offline, in the sense that you don't have to connect to a non-local server.Why? Internal testing.The people who makes any content will test it on the local servers first rather than connecting to wherever the servers are going to be located.Once the content is ready for the build, it will be changed to be online.All you have to do is preserve the placeholder version which was used for internal testing and voila, you can use online auction houses if you just swap the IP address those services phones home to a private server.
>>738659329It's pretty fucking absurd that this has been said and repeated and clarified about 600 billion times but people keep parroting otherwise
>>738649625>Not “run servers forever.”>Not “maintain every live-service feature until the heat death of the universe.”>Just don’t sell people a game and then make it unusable with no real remedy.These are not backpeddles by the way, this is what the campaign has been advocating for since day 1 and left the methodology open for maximum ease of compliance.
>>738659208So plan ahead
>>738659392>everyone tests on an entirely local environment, right?Not for a fucking decade, anon.It's pretty telling that people arguing for SKG as if they understand the tech side don't know what a test environment is.
>>738659171I addressed this argument all the way back here>>738657313>>738657406>>738657514So I guess the point you wanted to make with this entire runaround is that the other side has no argument against it in the first place. Atleast not one you can spin in a positive light. As thanks for this entertaining show, I'll give you one last chance
>>738658863You shouldn't have to break it. Only an asshole would make one that requires you to.
>>738658661And I will have more games to play cause I am not touching any of gaas shit until it costs 10% of the price.
>>738658869>>like a warranty>hold my phone in hand>clock strikes midnight and now my phone no longer has warranty>suddenly it stops workingThat's not a warranty, that's planned obsolescence.
>>738659512The argument is it's extra work to doYou don't have a counter argument to this
>>738654792Nigga looks like the unnamed Simpsons lawyer.
>>738659312No game should launch and close like Concord. The writing was on the wall before launch. Sony shouldn't have launched it
>>738659528>just make piggy banks that you break illegal!lollmaolike pottery
>>738649625>The bill is based on a false premise: that consumers “own” digital games with permanent access.A winning compelling argument, “Don’t assume these fuckhead goyim own shit”
>>738659329The bill which is being responded to in op asks for the servers to stay up or refunds to be given.
>>738650350kek
>>738658127uuuhhh let’s ignore that stuff
>>738659592No, seriously, piggy banks basically always have a way to open it non-destructively at the bottom. This is a solved problem.
>>738659610It really doesn't. That's the ESA interpretation of it which is misleading and demonstrably false.
>>738659392>not testing in prodYou're not a real developerAlso you're assuming any of those servers bare any meaningful resemblance to any hardware you're capable of running at home, instead of being built on stacks upon stacks of proprietary cloud-based monstrosities
>>738657191Game dev here: What extra work?Games work offline by default, making them online only IS the extra work.
>The bill is based on a false premise: that consumers "own" digital games
>>738659730>making them online only IS the extra work.yes and then making an online only game work offline is extra work still
>>738659702devs develop the game on local versions faggotno one would rent out a fucking cluster with capacity for millions just to test out a character skin
>>738659550I gave it all the way back here >>738657657 when I dismantled your silly analogy. The best part? You broke your own argument here >>738658134>what's so hard about that>nothingSo I can say with confidence after hearing you out for an hour that you are retarded and support corporates fucking your asshole bloody for no reason or tangible benefit. QED.
>>738659550It was extra work to make your game be server based and unsustainable too. Plan ahead and have an EOS solution
>>738659780I said it was extra work, I didn't say it was hardYou seem to be getting tripped up by basic logic here
>>738659598Digital game licensing is based on the same laws as digital software licensing and they state you're paying for a license and nothing elseIf I can legally download Forza Horizon 6 for free online in 2034 once Microsoft has shut down the servers for good, then why can't I also download Adobe Photoshop CS5?
>>738659808Your second point in no way follows logically from your first
>>738659771Anon you're just wrongActual studio devs develop on a test environment not a local environment
>>738659764Not if you don't design your game to be online only in the first place.In fact companies would literally save a ton of time AND money not making games online only because it requires a ton of work.
>>738656957>McGraw HillI am literally paying an extra $200 for every COMMUNITY COLLEGE class because these fuckers tell teachers they don't have to write lesson plans anymore if they force us to use their online homework assignments and thus quashing the secondhand textbook market. Well the physical textbook market in general, can't resell a digital license that lasts for 120 days.
>>738659730But there's a problem when there's no offline mode programmed.Also not all games work offline. Fortnite would never work offline because most of the assets are downloaded before every match.
>>738659338Noticing that jews are everywhere in important and managerial positions does not make you left or right
>>738659880>In fact companies would literally save a ton of time AND money not making games online only because it requires a ton of work.The entire reason they shoehorn in online features is to make more money
>>738659808How does one plan for running offline when there are other factors that drive design into server/client architecture, like preventing cheating? Should devs be forced to prioritize what will happen when the games shut down over how the game plays when it's alive because you faggots ran to the government to protect you?
>>738649625Does anyone have that comic of what /b/tards think moderation is like (everyone chained up in prison, too scared to say anything bad) vs moderation is actually like (a small portion of peope who shitpost being shot) vs what /b/tards actually want (a wave of piss with a bunch of shitposts)?It perfectly encapsulates what’s with the type of people against SKG and who bootlick corpos in general.
>>738657437>>738659815>I said it was extra work, I didn't say it was hardYou still havent answered my counter to that here >>738657514I dont suppose you're going to amuse me further with a food analogy at this point?
>>738659931Yes, Fortnite is evil
>>738659945>begs government to step in to smite their enemies>calls opponents bootlickersI lol at you.
>>738659931Who cares about cheating in a LAN/offline game and why? Is this really the best corporste defending zoomers that have never played LAN parties can come up with?
>>738659880>bro just outlaw this kind of software stackNo
>>738659931>Operators can provide consumer-facing notice that official authentication, moderation, anti-cheat, cloud services, security updates, or customer support will no longer be provided. They can also make clear that continued offline, LAN, independent, or community-hosted use is unsupported and undertaken at the user's own risk.
>>738659931>Should devs be forced to prioritize what will happen when the games shut down over how the game plays when it's alive because you faggots ran to the government to protect you?Nobody is pointing a gun at their asking they make it for when the game stops service. If the devs want to make it just 2 weeks before service ends, that's up to them.
>>738659997I already told you what the problem is, you're forcing somebody to do something for no good reason
>>738659931Nta butWell considering the current anticheat measures are sniffing around my kernel and won't even run on my Linux distros, you are bringing up a problem that also needs to be addressed and fixed. 2 birds with one stone! Time to innovate, studios! Isn't that what you have been telling us you have been doing this whole time; innovating for the future?
>>738659592But seriously. Why do you HAVE to make piggy banks that you need to break?
>>738659891Although it's not a servicable solution, because the amount of data would likely be massive, but hypothetically you could download all assets required for offline play right?As with Microsoft Flight Sim. Sure the 4K textures are like 1.5 Petabytes but you COULD play that game offline if you had the hardware.>inb4 lmao some solution, just have an eldritch god-tier drive for all the data lolYes, I know, but you also probably don't really need 4K textures to play that game, I'm sure smaller resolutions are much-much smaller and the game will be in a playable state.
>>738655826Post the femboy version
The funniest part is that the only reason pajeets are behind this so hard and spamming these threads is because it creates a scenario where they can proactively sabotage games in order to not just make them free but provide ways for them to build their own monetized versions.
>>738660065A response that requires you to pretend I was talking about preventing cheating in offline games doesn't go far when everyone here can easily see that I wasn't saying server/client architecture is required to prevent offline cheating.
>>738660105see >>738657313It's great fun watching you scramble backwards
>>738652808Lobbying happens because dumbass consumers and voters let their governments have far too much power, the same way they want to do with SKG.Incredibly funny to see gamers fight for years to have their censorship free games and to keep the law out of games, and now they're practically on their knees begging for it. The government is thrilled that it can finally touch the coveted gaming industry after being denied for so many years. I can't wait to see this backfire when governments stick their hands in even further and watch hordes of gamers get raped as a result of this. It will also cause thousands of trannies to lose their jobs, which is another bonus. I hope the next initiative is a censorship heavy legislation from the government now that they have the red carpet rolled out for them, and I can't wait for Ross to be the poster boy of raping games.
>>738660169This whole thing would be such an insane boon to chinese and indian and BR scam shops it's no wonder they have bot support
>>738660218Do I just have to copy and paste the same posts again? Please use your brain
>>738659931>like preventing cheating?I don't mind if a couple slavs want to play a Fifa game with infinite stamina or whatever.In-fact, the lack of anticheat would make games moddable and more customizable.Then you could also simply unlock all and any skins that the company wanted you to bu- wait a minute...
>>738660169>pajeets are behind it>pajeets are against ithave we reached the point of Indian global saturation?
>>738659592If I wanted a corked piggy bank I can go out and buy one and allow the one-use banks to collect dust on store shelves. This is different for game publishers, who MUST make games fragile and decompose after service, they literally will not do it themselves because of short term profit incentives. Now believe me, I would LOVE to have someone open up the code and tweak it themselves, but unfortunately there's a little law called the Digital Millennium Copywrite Act that prevents me from doing that to something I bought and paid for! So if the companies just cannot control themselves dicking us consumers over then that is the appropriate time to change the law.
>>738660135Sure, downloading the whole game is a solution but, as you pointed out, kinda impossible to implement for most.Honestly, at that point, the only possible solution is to keep a small server running forever. Or reduce the capacity of the game to a much smaller scale.But thankfully most games haven't reached this level of insane amount of data.
>>738650350He was hated because he spoke the truth
>>738660329>>738660329>If I wanted a corked piggy bank I can go out and buy one and allow the one-use banks to collect dust on store shelves.And if you want a game that runs entirely locally there are plenty of those and you can avoid buying live service gamesSimple as.>but there's a monopoly and-That's an antitrust matter.
>>738660273You can, and they'll still be just as refuted as they were when you posted them the first time.I love watching shills like you squirm.
>>738660219This is some impressive rhetorical bending to try and make SKG sound bad for gamers. Well done!
>>738660410You didn't refute anything, you keep trying to "own" me by saying stuff that just isn't logicalBottom line is this law just forces developers to do things a certain way, when there's ways of addressing the problem without forcing them to do thisAnd it's really not a big problem in the first place seeing the only games that shut down are the ones nobody is even playing in the first place
>>738660189>I wasn't saying server/client architecture is required to prevent offline cheating.Then what's it required for?
>>738660381If an exception is made for MS Flight Simulator you can be sure that other games will follow suitCall of Duty already does! Even their single player campaigns are always online now, specifically for texture streaming supposedly. So it seems like Microsoft is already one step ahead of SKG.
>>738660491>there's ways of addressing the problem without forcing them to do thissuch as?
>>738660457Everything the state touches turns into shit
>>738660497online games you double nigger. You know, the entire point of skg and all of these threads.
>>738660491>there's ways of addressing the problem without forcing them to do thisSuch as? Writing an angry letter tot he CEO?It sounds more like you dont like this solution because it's an effective one. >And it's really not a big problem in the first place seeing the only games that shut down are the ones nobody is even playing in the first placeUntil it happens to a game you like. Not that corporations takingyour paid and owned products away from you should be tolerated in any capacity in the first place.
>>738660457>Rhetorical bendingYou don't understand how long the government has been waiting to molest the gaming industry. They've attempted for years upon years to touch it and begin placing their fingers in it. What you believe to be an innocent consumer protection act (which it is not and is anti-consumer by limiting the amount of risk and games that will come out), is actually a grand ploy to have the first etchings of one of the only free and unregulated industries in the world finally get thoroughly molested, because some people need to play The Crew after it dies. Screen cap this post, and don't be surprised when the same trannies that support this, go and support that bill as well.
>>738660381>Honestly, at that point, the only possible solution is to keep a small server running forever.This could be achieved in any peer-to-peer network honestly.I've downloaded obscure hentai collections that are hundreds upon hundreds of gigabytes each without a hitch. Give the players a large window of availability on the files and then let the community handle all content distribution after that.
>>738660583warrantyyou are gauranteed a playable game for X amount of time when you buy it or else you get a refund
>>738660409Unlike uncorked piggy banks I am not the one who chooses when the game ends, the company does. The company is deciding my piggy bank won't work anymore. If I know enough of how to keep using a piggybank, it should be no sweat off their brow to allow me to manage my own piggybank when the decide they don't want their hands all over it anymore. And again, we must force that decision because they will never make that themselves.
>>738659931Yes. I think devs should prioritize making a functional product over making sure the cosmetic store gets the currency exchange rate correct.
>>738660686And I've tried downloading many many torrents that didn't have a single 100% seeder. Sometimes nobody, sometimes one other guy stuck at 26%.
>>738649625>playable version, a patchis it not already the case for like 90% of them? sure it's usually done by fans and such, but are there actually that many games you absolutely can't play in any shape or form after they're dead? what is this shit really about?
>>738660818So no good answer then huh?
>>738660695Those time periods are just gonna end up being hilariously short, and everyone will just learn to ignore them just like they ignore the "INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED" labels on current boxes.
>>738660667>which it is not and is anti-consumer by limiting the amount of risk and games that will come outNo, shut the fuck up and make games that don't artificially become obsolete. If you don't want to keep pumping freon into my air conditioner, fine, but do not just brick my AC because you aren't willing to be the freon guy anymore, I can fill it myself thank you very much.
>>738660851Touché, but I think that would change if companies would just throw out their files for the community to handle.Some communities are autistic enough to keep all versions available with every minute change for decades. I don't see why it couldn't work as long as these games have a forum where people can cooperate.
>>738660935>Those time periods are just gonna end up being hilariously shortDo you have any idea how to have an argument? Like any at all?>everyone will just learn to ignore them So? If you're promised 2 years of a working game and it's right there on purchase and you complain when it shuts down after 2 years you're the one at faultStupidity is not an excuse
>>738660818Thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdIDXc7Xak4
>>738660593The point of skg is to make online game playable offline so their servers can be deactivated without causing any loss.
>>738660950Sure, go ahead, while your at it, why don't you make your own games since you're so free and entitled to free shit? Too fucking stupid too so you need everyone else to fund your multimillion dollar projects because you're an entitled and spoiled brat to the labor of thousands of men and women greater than you?
>>738661063>entitled to free shit?No Im entitled to a product that I can use at my discretion whether you like it or not. That's what it means to sell something
>>738661063
>>738660804>Unlike uncorked piggy banks I am not the one who chooses when the game endsWhales are mammals.Huh? Oh I thought we were saying unrelated things.You've already tortured the metaphor enough, the actual message is that you morons ask for X and say you don't need Y when Y is a necessary requirement for X.
>>738661116Yes, a license, made by thousands of men and women who are greater than you, whose jobs you will freely put at risk, because you're too fucking stupid to make your own games for free. Interesting how you want free shit but you won't work to make your own shit for free. Spoiled, entitled, brat.
>>738661063>thread's about to die>shill completely drops the mask and flips outIt never gets old to watch
>>738659868sure thing shlomostraight from the horse's mouthnow get back in the oven
>>738660557I believe the only solution is that there's a cap for games where the law is applied.For example, games that are more than 10 terabytes are exempt.Of course, this would also need a method to prove companies won't start artificially inflate the size of their games to apply for the exempt.
>>738661225>can't post a rebuttal to my argument because the threads about to die and he types 50wpmSad, but many such cases of SKG supporters, retarded and out of touch with reality.
I sincerely hope that it's an actual "developer" having a melty in this thread currently and not some larping shitposter
>>738661063>why don't you make your own games since you're so free and entitled to free shitBITCH I PAID FOR THIS GAME, I BOUGHT THE 'LICENSE' TO IT ALREADY, WHAT DO YOU MEAN "FREE"?! YOU ALREQDY HSBE MY MONEY! And if you be a good little dev and make games I like, I will keep paying you money. No, you do not get to just kill my game when you are don't making money off it just so it inscentivises me to search for new games and potentially buy another one of yours. "My own last gen product is a threat to my current business model" is the absolute highest form of kikery jew magic conceivable, you double nigger. I hope your Chinese overlords pay you really good for that bait post.
>>738661013The entire argument of SKG is that consumers are too fucking stupid to realize that online games need online servers to function that may not be on the fucking line somedayWhether that end date is known or not is irrelevant if the consumer is simply too fucking dumb to understand what any of it means regardless
>>738661039Yeah and with games that have a lot of stuff on the server side rather than all on the client side, you fucking can't play it offline.
>>738661190Well, they're not greater than me if their livelihoods are at my mercy then, are they? One way to earn my favor and keep their jobs is to sell me productsthat I want instead of licenses that they can disable. Dont cry too hard. We're all acting in our self-interests here.
>>738661226>literal random reddit post>"boy I hope my casual racism will make people think I'm one of them"
>>738661301Make the games you like? I would never take a gamble on a game some /v/irgin likes. In fact, as a big company, I'm only gonna take a risk on the broadest appealing games for the highest consumer audience which is... not 30+ year old men. It will be developed for children aged 8 - 25, and it will not be your cup of tea. Making games you like though? You're old dumbass, I'm not taking that risk lol.
>>738661351>a lot of stuff on the server side rather than all on the client side,so move them to the client side
>>738661347You won't get far with a consumers being dumb argument when warranties already exist
>>738661190It's the AAA publishers that put developers jobs at risk
