Healthy meta
NO NO NO BITCHJO SISTERS THIS WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
melee outlasted this game in NA (the only region thats mattered for the past 20 years)
>>738672063Show me a fightan game with a more even spread than this.
>>738672063>Cloud below JokerWe found Spargo's strongest soldier.
>>738672063objectively 14 characters being S tier is pretty fucking good when you consider there are games with only 14 characters
when i play smash brothers with my normal people friends it is not the case that jiggly puff performs better than ganondorf
Is TG choking hard or did Ultimate players learn how to deal with Banjo
18 years as a bottom tier Captain Falcon semi-clone.
>>738672612These tier lists are made with tourneyfags in mind. Ganon hits tremendously hard, which is great in casual matches where nobody really know what they’re doing. But his recovery is so dogshit that once he’s offstage, it should be GGs.
>all the fun characters are in B-DSad.
>>738672063Docbros things are finally looking up
>my guy ike is bottom tiergood.
>all Fire Emblem characters are assWhat happened? I thought Marth was always good in these games.
>>738672479Then you look at who's in S and come to the realization that no Top 8 will ever be worth watching
>>738672063>tfw Bowser and Ganondorf main>even Bowser fell off pretty hard>Ganondorf right back to complete shit, somehow worse than Little Mac
>>738672063>all the fun, fan requested characters ended up low tier>a bunch of non Nintendo characters ended up top tierFucking grim
>>738672479it's a massive cope that steve isn't in a tier at the top by himself. i don't understand how smashfags still play this garbage game. it's not even kusoge level. it's just sakurai doing his best to make the game as annoyingly unbalanced as possible
>>738673434Marth's tipper results in inconsistent damage. Literally zero reason to not pick Lucina.
>>738673601Melee eternally broke Sakurai's mind and he has been anti-competitive ever since
>>738672063It's criminal what they did to Simon. He's a dedicated zoner who gets outzones by everyone and somehow Sakurai thought he needed intentionally bad recovery on top of it. I'm at the point where I honestly hope Saiurai has no involvement with whatever the next Smash game is
>>738673601>Nintendo will get your tourney shut down if you ban Steve but they refuse to balance himAmazing.
>>738672063>official tier listdid nintendo make this? doesn't feel like something they would do
>officialAccording to who? The Smash Bros subreddit?How is Yoshi in S tier above Fox and Joker? Where are the results?
>>738674064>>738674493lurk more
>>738674604>lurk moreno thank you, ultimate is for fags anyway
>>738674717Then why are you here?
>>738674768I was never here, it's all in your imagination
>>738672063Wild that Ganondorf has been among the worst characters in 4 different Smash games.
>>738672959>WE CAN'T JUST REDESIGN HIM NOW... AFTER 18 YEARS PEOPLE ARE USED TO HIS CLONE MOVESETImagine if they had just bit the bullet and fixed this shit back in Brawl
>>738673434Roy is right there
>>738673434I think this video describes it well:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBstARoLSZQtl;dw Ultimate's meta has evolved in a way that winning neutral is simply not as valuable as the ability to put your opponent in lose/lose situations. The main reason to pick swordies is that they are supposed to play the neutral better than other characters but as time goes on nobody gives a shit about playing the neutral. Even the strongest swordie in the game, Pyra/Mythra, isn't solo mained by anyone anymore, they are secondary picks only.
>>738672063If more than 3 tiers exist then it's not a healthy meta.
>>738672959>finally gets properly revamped in 6>just becomes a semiclone of sephiroth insteadBeing Ganondorf is suffering
>>738674968Being big and slow, and having horrible recovery are some of the worst detriments you can have in a platform fighter. He just doesn't have the "strengths" to overcome these weaknesses, and it's arguable that there is no amount of strength that would be enough to overcome them. Look at Little Mac. They fully embraced the min/max balance with him and he's still right there next to Ganon in bottom tier
>>738672063>worst swordies are the worst because one requires footsies and the other is a bruiser>they're also pre-4 so they're not overtuned
>>738672063That's a pretty smooth distribution of characters and you could potentially call it healthy balanceThe problem is the game mechanics as a whole in Ultimate are annoying as fuck
>>738674968He was mid-tier in Melee thoughever
>>738675073Blame autists loving Rank Inflation and just be happy you aren't getting "SS+","EX","SEX","SSS+++" and shit like that.
>>738673680And that's a good thing
I always knew DK was good, no idea why everyone was calling him shit solely because he's combo food.
>>738675013>tl;dw Ultimate's meta has evolved in a way that winning neutral is simply not as valuable as the ability to put your opponent in lose/lose situations.That's depressing.
>>738672612Wow you just debunked tier lists forever
>>738672136Banjo is too honest for Ultimate
>>738674970The obvious solution is just to give Black Shadow his moveset, but Sakurai's autism doesn't let him do the obvious.
>>738673434Everyone just moved to Lucina since Marth got screwed over by mechanical changes. Then Pyra/Mythra came out and totally eclipsed Lucina's niche as "simple sword character". Roy would be an easy S+ tier, arguably the best character in the game if Fighters Pass 2 never happened. He loses pretty hard to Steve and Kazuy
>>738675927Yes
>>738672063Fixed.
>>738672063>Sheik in the same tier as Terry and PTGarbage list
>>738675927Too honest? He's reduced to a bunch of grenade/egg fuckery because it's about the only tool he has that isn't complete shit. I have no idea what they were thinking when they designed him
>>738676698>Shulk in A tierAll Shulk apologists should get thrown off buildings at this point, crazy delusional people
>>738676698>SSSteveARYANS won
>>738672063funny how Puta is one of the few honest characters in S tier alongside Luigi. The rest are just dishonest characters that don't want to play the game as intended
>>738677107>LuigiHe's there because he has a reliable zero to death combo, the fuck is honest about that
>>738674968He's fine in the good Smash games (Melee and Project M)
>>738677295ganon isnt even really ganon in pm. that's a completely different character
>>738677107>LuigiNothing screams honest like a spammable disjointed grab that also acts as a projectile and leads to consistent ZTD on the entire cast.
>>738676827>I have no idea what they were thinking when they designed himHis kit (besides Wonder Wing) feels like something you'd see on a character designed during Melee or Brawl since that's the time when it would've been appropriate for him to join Smash.
>>738676827They thought wonderwing was too strong so they made the rest of his kit really average, which is funny considering every DLC character has various overtuned moves and wonderwing isn't even that busted compared to other shit.
>>738672063>All Min Min's matches are quick and explosive>Forces her opponent to approachThe saving grace of this trash meta.
>>738678080a shame she's stuck to a dead ipthe best modern nintendo character
>>738677902It's literally just Ike's Quick Draw or Charizard's Flare Blitz with a limited number of charges per stock
>>738675363Steve seems to be the only outlier. This is still probably the most balanced Smash has ever been, like despite being the worst character in the game Ganondorf is leagues more playable than how he was in previous games
>>738678289Steve is a horrendous outlier that sucks all joy out of playing or watching the game. At least 4 Bayo wasn't around for too long and her main crime was just killing people way too quickly
>>738677738>steven
>>738678080>can just bully you from a distance without any commitment on her part>not even helpless up close to make up for itlmao no. Fuck that bitch.
>>738678230In due time, she'll be back one day.
tourneyfaggotrism killed smash bros
I really like like for fun, and I really like playing Little Mac, and I've had a number of people over the years want to play against me, and then suggesting I change characters when I pick him. It's hilarious when they get bodied right afterwards. Granted, the last time I played about a year ago, I could tell my reflexes aren't what they once were, even if I still won most of the matches.
>>738678738Nobody is stopping you from doing 4 player FFA item matches with your friends, faggot. In fact, the game is designed toward casual play and has been ever since Brawl. Stop crying
>>738672959Bushido Ganondorf will get his own revamped, unique moveset in the next Smash game, in which he'll finally be D-tier.
>>738672063Why seperate these into ranks if you are going to add ranks within the ranks?
>>738678860>ugliest ganondorf get a new movesetit's not fair
>>738677598Yes?
>>738678989Did you get all F's in school or something? Adding + or - to a letter grade isn't a new phenomenon. What kind of retard question is this?
>>738678847>designed toward casual play and has been ever since smash 64ftfy
>>738672063While I see how compfags could find this interesting, 99% of the people who play Smash online, with their friends, or with their family are not and will never be good enough for this tier list to apply.
>>738679216They don't do + and - in schools anymore
>>738672321>Nigger merrica>relevantas relevant as huemonkeystan
>>738672612Heavies are busted at low/mid level. Tier lists only matter at the absolute top level of play.
>>738679629>seething turd world brownoidlol you love to see it
>>738672959Sakurai doesn't understand you can't just have zero mobility in a platform fighter. Every Smash mod gives Ganondorf a float move and he stops being completely awful. Ganondorf's design doesn't even make sense anymore because Pyra is just as strong and way more agile AND she has her own Sheik she can swap with.
>>738679741>Ganondorf's design doesn't even make sense anymore because Pyra is just as strongSakurai is very weird and inconsistent with his deliberate nerfs. I was saying the same thing about Simon earlier in the thread, who is a dedicated zoner that gets out zoned by almost everyone, and yet he still got hit with a shitty recovery for no reason. And where is he on the tier list? Right next to fucking Ganon. Where is the deliberate recovery nerf for Kazuya, who can just laser beam through everything Simon has?
>>738673434Roy and Corrin are both good and get high placements, they just aren't broken. Excluding a few characters, the game favors fighting in people's faces and spacing isn't as important, so the tipper mechanic actually kinda fucks Marth over this time around and his tippers aren't even really that strong outside of smash attacks and ftilt which makes it even worse. His dancing blade is also not very consistent compared to Roy's or even his own Smash 4 version of the move.
Will Nintendo ever figure out how to make a Smash game where superheavies aren't shit by default?
>>738680545never because superheavies are already OP in casual play
>>738672063play a real competitive platform fighter
>>738675013>Ultimate's meta has evolved in a way that winning neutral is simply not as valuable as the ability to put your opponent in lose/lose situations.what a coincidence, the thing that makes Steve so high-tier is the fact that even in neutral you're losing because he builds the wall and mines free advantage for later, and if he does it enough you're even set up to lose if he ever somehow ends up in a disadvantage state (not likely because he has so much brutal punishes for any approach you make while he's mining behind the wall)
>>738672063god i can't wait for the day plant overtakes banjoke in tiersbanjo being the worst dlc character is karma for being such massive faggots over the years
>>738680990>"Play Rivals 2." - Plup
>>738680990lol
>>738680545Smash is more codified than fighting games and has archetypes that are practically inherently doomed. In a basic RPS of Swordies/Zoners/Brawlers, making a slow brawler is just making a character that loses to Swords even harder and now loses to zoners because the burst speed is no longer there. The only way the character escape that fate is by being ridiculously overtuned (See Luigi/Kazuya ToD).The realistic ceiling for a superheavy that's still fun to fight and reasonable enough is probably DK in Ultimate.
>>738672063>Anime gooner stuff anywhere above ECall me when this shit fucking stops. This isn't what Smash should be.
>>738672063imagine going back to the 90s and showing a sega fan that sonic would be stronger than all nintendo characters in their own game
>>738672063That S tier is absolutely dreadful and is why I'm never coming back to this bullshit. The only exciting characters to watch there are Fox and Joker, maybe mythra/pyra if it wasn't for the fact that fucking everyone has them as a pocket
>>738672321>autists played one game and only one game for 20 years>pretending that being really good at one game with a dead/dwindling audience and nothing else is a good thingCoincidentally 20 years ago is the last time they showered
>>738677107>Luigi>HonestNigger he's a diet Kazuya with one 0 to death combo he relies on
>>738672063Why are there final fantasy characters in smash? They sure have trannied up this game.
>>738681305>>738681412he's right though
>>738672654Banjo is hard to learn the matchup of because he thrives on being unpredictable more so than strong, but also TG gets too much respect in-game because he's a good player and getting away with so much shit he should be punished for.
I like Sonikku
>>738672321you're delusional
>>738682124lol
The next Smash shouldn't have an input buffer
>>738678738Tourneyfags are only ones who still play it.
>>738682312stay mad stinky
>>738672321Sit down, fudgepacker.
>>738672063>Only actually cool FE character>Wins one launch Major back when no one knew what they were doing>Goes from the lower end of high tier to getting giganerfed to almost bottom tierI'll never forgive Nintendo
>>738682648He was going to fall off either way even without his overhaul
>>738672063What happened with Mega Man to go up 20+ ranks?
>>738682342Every competitive game in this era has an input buffer, the buffer existing isn't a problem. Smash just shouldn't have a 10 (TEN) frame buffer. It probably shouldn't be a hold buffer either, although I personally have never had a problem with it.
>>738682648His gameplay is too one-dimensional. He's the definition of an early meta character.>>738682814A Mega Man player named Peabnut started getting really good results last year. He won a major.
>>738680545>Will Nintendo ever figure out how to make a Smash game where superheavies aren't shit by default?It would require conceding to Meleefags and creating a wavedash-like mechanic so heavies could get around and reposition more efficiently.
>>738682814A single Mega Man player started doing really, really well and everyone realized the character is actually pretty good.
>>738677738If you're not a chink or a spic, you're not winning.
>>738678738>tourneyfaggotrism killed smash brosThe real redpill is tourneyfags were always right and Sakurai is mentally ill for intentionally gimping Brawl and every subsequent entry.
>>738672063Funny as a casual player seeing Zelda is apparently so shit. When I play with my friends they fucking despise me when I pick Zelda because they don't know what to do against her
>>738682648There is no way his "spam nair until win" playstyle was ever going to survive in the long run
>>738683307Zelda can be very fucking annoying to deal with regardless of skill.
>>738683054Bro, where are all the SSS tier aegis? I was told repeatedly they there "broken invincible bullshit hella op"
How do we fix the smash community?
>>738683827mandatory showers
>>738683827That guy talks like a faggot, so I won't miss him.
>>738683827lmao
Haven't been following Smash. Is Kazuya even winning anything, or he's solely there because are STILL assblasted about touch of death combos?
>>738683827These people deserve Sakurai shitting on them
remember that one smash house where the owner of the house had sex with a minor in a pool and he said he didn't know what she was attempting to do and didn't try to stop
>>738683916People are still salty about his combos even though he doesn't win shit anymore because he can't catch you if you keep jumping.
>>738682648all his smash attacks were always 25-30+ startup frames and his specials are just worst versions of other characters specialshe was a knowledge check character that was doomed to fail once everyone figured him out
>>738672063It sounds crazy but I don't think Aegis, Fox and Joker belong in S tier anymore.For all their good attributes these characters are, unironically, too honest for the game. They can't zero to death, they can't camp, they can't enforce some bullshit win condition or deny their opponents from playing the game or anything like that. All they can do is win neutral, press their advantage, reset, repeat. Over and over. All they can do is... play Smash Bros. And that's not enough anymore.I'd bet that by next year Fox and Joker will be demoted down to A tier and Aegis will be kicked out of the top 10 at least.
>>738684268You just described what this video was talking about>>738675013They even talk about how Aegis cant get past top 20 in solo play, she's just a backup character to play for certain matchups.
>>738682648Ike received more buffs than nerfs. He just has a really low skill ceiling compared to most other characters and his nair spam can easily be punished if you parry it or use a footstool out of shield option.>>738683916Kazuya's position is inflated because 21.4% of the Japanese respondents for this tier list ranked Kazuya #1. He dominates their online ladders on Smashmate and underseeded Kazuya wifi grinders frequently upset players at their majors.
>>738685063Based Kazuya
>>738683980Yes I remember that horrible loli who raped a fellow gamer, thanks for asking.
>>738680990Still not playing your thinly-veiled gay furfag game, sorry. Nice try tho.
>>738684268>All they can do is... play Smash Bros. And that's not enough anymore.I don't know how the Smash team didn't learn a thing from Smash 4 Bayo.
>>738685448too busy jerking themselves off making the characters so "accurate" to the games they come from.
>>738677738Yo is saying good? I used to be a huge Big D fan but he kinda disappeared after summit 6
>>738685642Saya has been the best ICs since the start of the year.>Summit 6That was three years. Big D still goes to tournaments, but he doesn't do as well anymore.
>>738672403Rivals of Aether 2, which is within the same sub-genre, even. Virtually every character is S, A, or B tier. One of the worst characters in the game recently won an online major (the prize was a free flight for Evo, so every top player entered even though it was online), and there's only one truly bad character - but it's because he's new and they release DLC characters under- instead of overpowered.The issue with Ultimate's meta isn't that 60% of the roster isn't actually viable enough to win a major, it's that the top tier characters are all top tier because they're degenerate. The only "honest" characters in top tier are Peach, Yoshi, and Fox, every other character is top tier because of some sort of degenerate gimmick or undeserved level of privilege. Most top tiers force you play some sort of mini-game that isn't actually Smash. Even calling Yoshi and Fox "honest" feels wrong because they're definitely very privileged. It's miserable as a player and a spectator.RoA2's top tiers can be annoying, but they're much closer to characters like Yoshi and Fox who, while privileged, are at least fundamentally playing the same game as the rest of the roster.
It's impressive how high Sora is when he hasn't had an active top player for years and no one can consistently pull off his busted combos.
>>738674493>How is Yoshi in S tier above Fox and Joker?Because the, "according to who," is the top 100 players, the majority of whom are Japanese because Japan has more tournaments. Yoshi has no representation in the US, but there are two really good Yoshi players in Japan (Yoshidora and Mark), which leads to Japanese players overrating the character. Similarly, they overrate Captain Falcon because of Karaage.To be fair, Yoshi IS a good character, but he's good at playing year 1 Ultimate. When he has to fight any of the degenerate top tiers, he just fucking loses. I don't know why Fox and Joker aren't higher than Yoshi, because they can at least try to fight Steve, etc.
Is Shulk still potential man
>>738672063Why the fuck is Ganondorf always at the bottom? I can kick plenty of ass with him against my friends and the CPU. I can take on at team battle of 7 opponents with him as long as the CPU level isn't any higher than 3 or 4.
>>738686092Buy an ad.
>>738672063>Main Ike and GDorf who are rock bottom and Yink who has been steadily falling>At least I've still got the Hero.
>>738686351Ganondorf as a character completely depends on the opponent's inability to play well.He's slow. His recovery is predictable. His specials job to projectiles. He's combo food. There's little he can do if you knock him the air. He's just completely gimped by outdated balancing.
>>738684268I agree, but I think it would mindbreak the Ultimate community to admit that the game is so fucked that the most dishonest "honest" characters can't actually compete with even the weakest S tier gimmick characters. If someone wanted to play purely for results and was deciding between Aegis and Luigi, it'd be Luigi every time.Aegis is Smash 4 Cloud levels of broken, but that's irrelevant with how Ultimate works. Why bother actually playing neutral when you can just practice fishing for 3 different broken zero-to-deaths / kill confirms that solve every MU?
>>738686372uh-oh melty
>>738684268It boggles my mind that anyone would go through the hurt of maining fox. Guy has win to many interactions only to get blown up after one hit
I don't think the top tier accurately reflects the gaps between some of these characters, so here's how I'd order itThere are some changes to the lower tiers, but fewer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJHEkZv4QtY
>>738686351Tier lists reflect high-level tournament play and not fighting level 4 CPUs. But if you want to get inspired, look up the best Ganon in the world, Shinda Lion.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbMP_jmVtVghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drbz1XvJSuA&t=54m
>>738686351>Why the fuck is Ganondorf always at the bottom?>Short range brawler>Has no ground or air movement or recoveryBecause Sakurai refuses to give him the aerial movement he deserves. The dude can fly for Din's sake. At least the next game will probably rework him into TotK Gayondorf with an actual moveset.
>>738672063>Shulk is the highest rated character that has never won a majorThe jokes write themselves at this point
>>738677107>Luigi>honest?>>738677738It's crazy that this was considered the "ideal" Ultimate tournament and the top 8 is still>giga AIDS>mega AIDS>honest>lesser AIDS, but at least Leo is fun to watch>AIDS>AIDS>the AIDS of 1.0>emerging strain of AIDSand the rest of the top 24 isn't much better. Wario, Roy, Ryu, ZSS, DK, and ICs are the only respectable characters there.
>>738686092Oh, how the mighty have fallen. Also, La Reina's definitely better than that, and plenty of notable players think Orcane's top 1 this patch.
>>738677738I hate watching ultimate but I can respect that its top players aren't disgusting freaks like melee's top players
>>738686704This tier list seems kinda silly when Kazuya hasn't won a major in forever and literally only one player in the entire world plays Joker.>le pikachu AI perfect potential characterAh so it's a joke tier list.
>>738681305Reminder that Plup said RoA2 is his favorite platform fighter>I mean Melee is Melee, but... yeah, I'd say it's my favoriteI'm patiently waiting for him to BTFO everyone at Evo
>>738672063reminder that people literally witheld the steve bugs until after the last ultimate patch because they hate the idea of fighting against a minecraft character which is really stupid
>>738672063>4 out of the top 6 are defensive campers
>>738672063Glad to see my girls up there.
>>738683827I know there are some people who fucking despise this guy. Happy for them.
>>738687154The image that genocided gay people
>>738686704Seems the meta has settled around the top 6 characters for a while now. Play one of them, or die. (Min Min being the hero.)
>>738687050Can't wait to see Plup and Mang0 fight in pools.
>>7386839161. >>738685063 is correct2. Kazuya will forever be S tier with an asterisk because he IS the best character in the game if he can catch you, but he actually has to catch you. The issue is that half of the other top tiers don't actually have to play Smash, and therefore don't need to approach Kazuya, ever. I think Riddles won a regional with him a month or two ago, but it's unlikely he'll ever win a major.
>>738685448All the Smash team knows how to do is create wildly imbalanced characters, rape them into the dirt in the next game for being good, and then create new, wildly imbalanced characters.
>>738687154The image that reinforced the weeb demographic as the biggest losers in existence.
>>738672063Steve is so lame to watch... why is he on smash again?
>>738686372Cry about it, bitch.>>738686932Orcane top 1? That seems crazy to me. I could see him being at the bottom of S or something, but other characters are just better at most of what he does.
>>738672063>Remove the top 6 in this tier list from the game. >Suddenly the game would be much healthier.
>>738687471Kazuya absolutely stomps low-mid level but Riddles is the only player you really see playing him to his fullest at high level, and even then he tends to switch off to Terry due to top players knowing how to wall him off. Whenever you see Tea play him, it's just that meme playstyle of spamming ewgf
>>738672063>Olimar in A+Excuse me? No one plays Olimar.
>>738672063I understand why Lucina ranks above Marth, but why does Ryu rank above Ken?
>>738688003Better projectile and easier kill confirms. People fall out of Ken combos a lot
>>738687857Shuton and uame
>>738686967>only one player plays jokerGorioka plays him as well, it isn't just Leo. Joker has all the bones of a good character, it's just that his gimmick is comparatively balanced relative to the rest of the top tiers; Joker without Arsene is still a functional character, but he has difficulty killing without the type of plays Leo is known for. Joker issue is if you want to win, why would you play a character who's S+ 40% of the time and A tier 60%... when you could just play a character who's S+ for 100%?Kazuya will always be an S tier character for similar reasons. The difference is that you're not waiting for that 40% S+ uptime, you get it for free as long as it's a MU where your opponent has to approach. It's ironic: Kazuya obliterates 90% of the characters below him, but the 10% he doesn't are disproportionately higher tier than him, so he suffers the same fate as his victims.
Here's a color coded version of this tier list that show which characters have won a major:>green = won a major solo>yellow = won a major with partial usage>red = hasn't won a major
>>738683827mandatory chastity belt during tournaments
kazuya is to post FP2 ultimate as palutena was to 1.0 ultimatenot a winning character, but one that just exists to weed other, more interesting characters out of bracket
>>738686809Anon ganondorf has been a falcon clone since Melee and theyve had Smash 4 and Ult to do anything and hes still the same, do you really think Sakura is gonna do anything beyond give him his sword smash attacks he copied from Ike?
>>738686772>Tier lists reflect high-level tournament playSo Ganondorf only sucks when it's 1v1, no items final destination.
Is this a Smash general or is this just meta faggotry?You "competitive" Smashers are aware that the devs think you're a joke and actively undermine your efforts to play this in tournaments constantly because it's not a real fighting game, right? Also you smell awful.Anyway where's the general?
>>738688282>Shulk
>>738688684They got tourneyfags to playtest it and nerfed Min Min because one player with doing too well with her.
>>738688684the general has been dead for almost a year, rampant unmodded schizos killed it
>>738672136>wanting to be immensely hated by everyone in everything ever outside the game for being too good in the game as a lame meta pick nobody genuinely likes outside ofNo thanks
>>738688768lol
>>738686772Damn, I guess I'll never be as good as a Korean ladyboy.
it's so fucking funny that a mii brawler player tried to assassinate the president and everyone just forgot about it like a week later
>>738683827You can't fix something Suckarai made, it's always bad.
>>73868948764 was goodmelee was good
I'm so glad I've never been good enough that any of this matters. I play as who I like and that's it.
>>738688684>You "competitive" Smashers are aware that the devs think you're a jokeBecause Sakurai somehow got ptsd from beating a couple at King of Fighters so now he makes his Smash games floaty and unbalanced.It's not like Melee sucked casually.
>>738689589Exceptions to the rule and had other people there (Iwata before becoming president)
>>738689487is kirby kart 2 bad
>>738689870>It's not like Melee sucked casuallyThis is what I don't get about Sakurai's design philosophy. 64 was good casually. Melee was good casually. Are all my memories of playing FFAs with items on high implanted? Even with modern online matchmaking >implying Smash's online is modern, Smash is popular enough that you'll always have players your skill level to play with.
https://github.com/NyxTheShield/RMG-GekkonetUnrelated to Ultimate but Smash 64 has Rollback now.
>>738688768Potentialman
>>738690369Holy fuckThank you
>>738682402Meanwhile Joker gets to have great mobility, recovery, combos, disjoints and a comeback mechanic that lets him spam a back air that hits harder than half the Smash attacks in the game all while weighing more than Wolf
>>738672063It's nice seeing DK dethroning Bowser as the best Heavy* fighter so overwhelmingly. The last time DK was truly better than Bowser was in Melee.*Kazuya doesn't count
>>738683916People learned to camp him out, he's still absurdly good despite being at a massive disadvantage in this meta
>>738690601It's a shame he's just so bad where it counts. DK is one of the only reasons I ever enjoyed Ultimate at all, but he just has such a hard time dealing with what's good (degeneracy).
>>738672063I think Chrom is incredibly underrated. Having one of the bottom 5 worst recoveries in the game doesn't negate him being an S-tier character in every other regard. He still absolutely bodies 90% of the characters below A-tier and has a decent chance of kicking the non-ToD A tier characters' asses. If Chrom had Joker's tether he'd be a top 15 character in the game. He should be B-tier at the lowest.
>>738688684>the devs think you're a joke and actively undermine your efforts to play this in tournaments constantly because it's not a real fighting gameThat's just sakurai, the rest of the development team actually supports the competitive playerbase and tries to accommodate them with things like balance patches, ranked netplay, rule preferences, etc. If Nintendo really wanted smash to be purely a low-stakes party game then they wouldn't let you disable items, stage hazards, final smashes, or any other sources of RNG, but the fact that they do means they at least acknowledge that some people want to take the game more seriously
>>738690682DK is actually one that engages in Touch of Death degeneracy in a lot of cases. That's why he's risen so high. Decent neutral + incredible advantage only held back by dogshit disadvantage. He's basically Heavy Luigi.
>>738690741>He still absolutely bodies 90% of the characters below A-tierThis is not as relevant as you think it is. The 80% of characters in Ultimate who actually play Smash are irrelevant when the top tiers are all playing some sort of deranged mini-game. Sword / disjoint characters used to be good because they were playing Smash with an inherent advantage (disjointed hitboxes), but that advantage is irrelevant when your opponent is just camping under platform spamming projectiles, tilting while walking, or building a wall and mining.Chrom's okay, just not against relevant characters. There he's horrible.
>>738688684You can make a thread so you can rosterfag about how much you want Shadow the Hedgehog and Alucard in Smash 6, nobody's stopping you
>>738689589Ever wonder what the secret sauce was?
>>738672959Ganondorf isn't even unsalvageable in his semi-clone state. Give him:>Reflector on the front of Wizard Foot>Doubled height on Dark Dive + Peach Float on the end instead of putting him into free fall>Smash 4 Flame Choke (kills enemy first, impossible to mash out of) but make it untechable like the Brawl version>A drag down NAIR that either has low landing lag or is L-cancellable so it can be combo'd out of And he'd be a solid mid tier even in Ultimate. Give him a nerfed version of his old Up Smash as his U-tilt and he'd be a mid-high tier even. Sakurai is just afraid of making heavies too powerful. He wants them to be hard to kill but makes their heavy weight offset by being unable to get through projectile walls or recover. He gives that to Kazuya and Kazuya ends up a top 10 character. Why shouldn't Ganondorf get all that except for the Touch of Death?
>>738690848He's not as ToD tier, although he generally takes stocks in a few neutral wins. The thing being that he's very well rounded and capable of doing it from anywhere on stage. He's got UpThrow UpAir on most legal stages as the main culprit and it's admitedly kinda lame, but aerial claps or just Giant Punch can just nuke stocks consistently, on top of a kill throw. Comparatively, with how vital Side B is to his Neutral, a character like Bowser is bound to the corner if he wants to take early stocks. DK's advantage is versatile and it's a big contributor to his rise (and, as a sidenote, his popularity as a pocket/character to just waste time with. Smash 4 Falcon used to be that but he got way too rigid and you reach a cap way too soon where the temptation to press the lame button, aka his vaccum UpB, just comes naturally. You'd need to commit for him to be fun again but that loses the point of a pocket).
You are now reminded of the most powerful Smash Bros player on this website.
>>738691260>Reflector on the front of Wizard's Footive always kinda advocated he needed some option against projectiles and i thougth of giving him projectile invul during wizards foot but thats also a good compromise
>>738690848True, but I feel like most players are wise to DK's cargo uthrow shenanigans these days. It's crazy that DK has so much privilege - cargo throw, cargo uthrow uair, dtilt tripping, giant punch, down B usmash, etc. - and yet he's still only B tier. All I can think of is the Invincible meme>Look what it takes for him to mimic a fraction of our powerI mostly agree with >>738691306
>>738689606thisi stopped caring about competitive a long time ago and im just optimizing my low tier main for the fun of it
>>738684268The thing is, though, that Smash 64, the very first Smash game, had tons of insta-win interactions. Most characters could die getting hit once in neutral and getting 0-to-death'd. Kirby, Pikachu, Fox, Captain Falcon, Link, Mario, Yoshi, and Puff all have ToD combos. That's why the best characters are the ones that are most likely to hit their wincon first. Melee changed that by effectively removing the 0 to death from the game, except for Ice Climbers, but every Smash game since has added more and more inescapable combos. Melee really is the outlier in that regard since most combos are escapable, and most characters have combos, leading to very swingy games. Zero to Death combos ARE Smash Bros at its core.
>>738691735>optional jankshit prequelMight as well say the og street fighter is real street fighter
>>738691260>Smash 4 Flame Choke (kills enemy first, impossible to mash out of) but make it untechable like the Brawl versionThis change always pissed me off, giving an anti-fun nerf to a low tier. Same with Bowsers command grab jump.Comptrannies and catering to them ruin fun objectively
>>738691914all smash games are jankshit
>>738672063unrelated but imagine showing this roster to someone from brawl or wii u erait would be like showing a video game to someone from the 19th century
>>738691914first street fighter isnt a fighting game, what are you talking about
>>738691735this opinion is too stupid to sincerely engage with
>>738674064I love this pic, brings back good memories
>>738691735Will Link ever be good? He's the most consistently shit character across the series out of the original 12.
>>738692271ironically link was the most played character in 64's netplayi still think link players were downplaying him
>>738691967It was actually a nerf specifically designed to make casuals happy. Comp players weren't getting hit by aerial Flame Choke off the stage more than once, and tourneys are Bo3. It was casuals complaining about getting Ganondorf to 150%, going too deep off stage, and getting killed at 10% by Ganondorf that got the move nerfed. Same reason Little Mac got gutted. He dominated casuals for like 2 months in early Smash 4 and he was mega-nerfed for it.
Why do all smash mods just want to be melee shit is so boring>we NEED to nerf these problematic characters into the ground for our modpack like steve, kazuya, etc>but lets buff fox, marth, falco to be more like melee and meta knight to be more like brawl :DD it's always these melee fags thinking they're game developers keeek
Gotta say, that S tier looks dreadful to play against.
>>738692525Are you talking about hewdraw remix?
>>738692271Smash Melee and Ultimate are unironically his best showings. He's a respectable mid tier in both.Give him Pegasus Boots to give him absurd run speed on the ground and he'd be mid-high tier off of that.
>>738692528It made multiple players soft-retire (only to un-retire when they realized that Smash was their only prospect), and 50% of Ultimate content is basically about how badly designed top tiers are.
>>738692528That's why you play the S-tiers!
>>738692686Kek
Without fundamentally changing the feel of the character, buff him.
>>738692250You can't handle the truth
>>738692786I think Simon would be usable if you>increased his damage and knockback>gave his whip's sweet spot a larger hitbox, but keep the sour spot hitboxes the sameNot good, but usable.
>>738692786Double the height of his aerial Up-B and give it super armor for the last 33% of the distance.
>>738692686fuark... so this is shulk's potential...
>>738692525Competitive Smash wouldn't be a thing if the Melee top tiers weren't the characters they are
>>738672063Why did they do Castlevania so dirty?
>>738692786Buff the height of his upB, that thing sends Richter to the moon in SOTN.
>>738672136>>738675927Banjo feels like he was designed for Melee and Brawl. He's the only DLC character that has zero gimmicks whatsoever.
>>738693059>>738693338I am of the opposite opinion. I think most every other character on the roster could get a recovery nerf.
>>738693348>zero gimmicksThere's his limited side-B, but compared to other DLCs it's not even that amazing for what it is.
>>738693530i agree but in Ult if you dont atlesat have a decent recovery your basically doomed Chrom Little Mac etc.
>>738688078>People fall out of Ken combos a lotThat's not even Ken exclusive. Something went horribly wrong in Ultimate and a lot of multi-hits barely work now. I remember Sonic's up tilt was practically useless because people would always fall out before the second hit connected.
>>738693530I took a long break from watching competitive Ultimate between FP1 and now, and it's interesting how optimized recoveries are. In the first year of Ultimate, there was a lot of discussion about edgeguarding vs. ledgetrapping, and how there wasn't sufficient incentive to edgeguard. Edgeguarding has gotten better, but there are basically three types of recovery:>recover low while holding your double jump>literally just fucking fly>forced to actually recover like a cuckand it's incredibly difficult to actually edgeguard the first two. Players will willingly allow themselves to be hit while recovering as long as they keep their double jump, because just holding double jump and then recovering close to the stage is so difficult to punish.The offstage game is really fucking lame. Recovering is way too free, and even though players have gotten better at edgeguarding there's only so much you can do against recovering low or really, really high.
>>738672403SC6 off the top of my headBut honestly the balance is only good if you're comparing it exclusively to previous smash games, modern fighters with longer support windows who balance more aggressively are, unsurprisingly, better balanced.
>>738672479>>738673601This whole tiering system is very disingenuous.There is no reason to split the cast in ranks all the way down to E, almost like they're trying to make the game look more balanced than it is.The power gap between S+ and A+ is so massive that S- is effectively just mid-tier and everything below is low tier. If you think Corrin, Falco and Greninja deserve to be called high tier in a game with Steve, then "high tier" has lost all meaning.And there is functionally no difference between B, C and D tiers, it's all just different shades of borderline unviable low tiers. Only E deserves special note for how trash they are
>>738693530>I think most every other character on the roster could get a recovery nerf.That's great, anon, but the question was to buff Simon, not rebalance the entire roster. In a game where everyone else has overpowered recoveries, Simon having an intentionally weak recovery is absolutely one of the biggest things holding him back as a character.
do people still use that lag mod for Online Ultimate? I remember seeing so much seethe about players who used that mod.
>>738673434Marth is in a weird situation where it's not even his fault that he's bad. The game itself is working against him. Ultimate is centered around rushdown and EVERY character got faster, leaving Marth with less time to get his spacing right. That's why Lucina is several tiers above him, she doesn't have to space and can just mash.
>>738694162it isn't just about the number of viable characters - which is still relatively low as >>738688282 shows - it's about why top tiers are top tier. tl;dr, Ultimate's top tiers are good for bad reasons, reasons that are very unhealthy for the game competitively. look at the distribution of archetypes:>gimmicky zoner that runs away and kills you in one hit>character that runs away>gimmicky item zoner>gimmicky normal zoner>gimmicky projectile / item zoner that kills you in one hit>gimmicky normal zoner that kills you in one hit>gimmicky character that kills you in one hit>gimmicky item zoner>disjoint character that actually plays the game>gimmicky character that kills you in one hit>item character that actually plays the game>rushdown character that actually plays the game i don't think Yoshi is top tier, honestly>rushdown character that actually plays the game>gimmicky character that actually plays the gameand then contrast it with melee, a notoriously imbalanced game:>high execution rushdown character>disjoint character>setplay character>bait-and-punish / rushdown character>rushdown character with a projectile>rushdown character>item characterit would be pointless to add "actually plays the game", because all of them actually play Smash. Ultimate's best rushdown characters are barely squeaking into the top tier, and all of them are outclassed by gimmick characters who can either run away or kill you in one hit. I think someone once put it as every Ultimate top tier either being a Sonic (mr. runs away) or a Kazuya (mr. kills you).
>>738686763>2:25I've seen enough. Steve really is a middle finger to the entire rest of the cast.
>>738686763humiliation ritual
>>738686763The thumbnail already has me giggling.
>>738694962also i don't mean to imply that rushdown is somehow the only valid or honest archetype. characters like Samus (projectile zoner) and Olimar (disjoint / projectile) are perfectly fine, for example. but rushdown characters inherently have to interact with the actual mechanics of platform fighters, so it really isn't an issue if they're good or not. at the end of the day, they still have to play neutral, advantage, and disadvantage normally, even if a given character is better at it than others.in contrast, when your top tier is like 80% characters who ignore these concepts, you have a problem.
>>738693154You're right, but that only proves his point further, kekSimilar to a game like Team Fortress 2, the moment you apply competition to Smash, you are gutting the most fundamental global fun from the gameBy the way Smash isn't a fighting game, the FGC hates smelly Smashers and we don't claim you, fuck all of you
>>738695374yeah their platform fighters
>>738695374Based.
>>738695374yeah because fgcfags smell so good right
>>738695374The fgc is full of fat boomers who hate anything tbat isnt Tekken or steetfighter. Melee has a higher skill celing than any of your shitty "real" fighting games which are all copypaste jobs from the arcade anyway. We dont claim you either.
>>738695624>>738695684The salty tears of creepy Smash players are delicious <3
>>738688684I hate competitive smash and the smelly pedos that play in those tourneys as much as the next guy but at least these threads actually talk about the game and don't rosterfag like every other smash thread
>>738695740I'm literally in tears right now
I feel fortunate to live in a region where most of the players who show up to locals are both competent at the game and play mostly tolerable characters, if not for that I would've stopped playing this terrible game a long time ago.
>>738695684Man, feels so good to be someone who loves classic SNK, classic Namco, classic Capcom, Melee, Brawl, Sm4sh, and Ultimate all at once.Your fan wars are pointless. Play what you want to play.
You get nothing from hating competitive Smash you know. There's no chance Sakurai will ever listen but there's no harm in making the game faster and more mobile as a whole.
>>738694962The problem is Sakurai doubling, tripling and quadrupling down on the whole "character plays like they're in their own game" design philosophy, which he outright admitted just makes it harder on himself to balance the game.
>>738688684i don't care for competitive smash anymore, but I 1000 times prefer a competitive smash thread over a roster thread any day
>>738697047Because he doesn't care about balance. Smash will always be a party game first and foremost.Most Ultimate's frustrations come from competitive players desperately trying to make the game something it's not.
>>738697881He's said multiple times he cares about balance which is why Smash 4 and Ultimate received dozens of balance patches.
>>738686198I fought someone online who did recently and it was ridiculous. completely busted
>>738697881>Smash will always be a party game first and foremost.Yeah we're really partying when Steve sets up his win condition for free.
>>738672063Mario is A tier? Damn. What makes him good? Can you do Bair->Uair comboes or similar?t. played smash up to 4 DS
>>738672063What in the world could have possibly made Falcon go up 8 spots?? The character fucking sucks ass in ult
>>738695374>the moment you apply competition to Smash, you are gutting the most fundamental global fun from the game"Global fun" is kind of an oxymoron here because fun is completely subjective and varies from person to person. You might enjoy playing on random stages with items and hazards turned on but I personally can't stand it because I don't like having my wins and losses be determined by RNG. If people didn't have fun playing smash with competitive rulesets then there wouldn't be a competitive scene at all
>>738699023Bro anyone who looks in the zombie like cold dead stare of competitive smash players knows those guys aren't having fun.
>>738698780very safe, quick and powerful attacksupair is stupid
>>738672063Oh hey I was bitching about ROB and Game & Watch back in 4.
>>738698780>insane frame data>spammable kill moves>can kill you with braindead ladder combos at 40%The only reason he isn't better is simply because he's outclassed by characters of the same archetype.
>>738697913Most balance changes are still oriented toward things that affect casual players as much as they affect competitive players. For example, Pichu's ftilt and Ike's nair were nerfed significantly, while Luigi's and DK's kill confirms off of throws remain relatively untouched. Little Timmy can get on wi-fi and spam nair with Ike, but he's probably not learning the % ranges that DK's cargo uthrow uair works against each individual character.When it comes to the FP2 characters, though, they just gave up and stopped supporting the game.
I'm still pissed how they handled Ridley. Useless ass down B. Down air could've been his iconic pogo stick from the games and instead its some lame ass fall. Up B is locked to 4 fucking angles and if they have a counter just kiss your ass good bye. LIGHTER THAN SAMUS.
>>738698780uair spamThat's actually 90% of Mario's identity as a character
>>738698871See >>738686297One Japanese player is really good at hitting nair 1 into imagination, so the other Japanese players all go>OHHH SUGEE!and overrate the character.
>>738699327They were ass in 4
>>738699623I don't give a fuck. Screw those lame ass characters.
>>738699662Fair enough
>>738699502>Aerial Down B aimed towards the ground bounces you up>Down Air is now a meta knight down esque tail swipe>Up B can now be aimed at any anglethere you go i fixed Ridley with 3 changes
>>738699502We told you faggots he was too big. You didn't listen and kept begging for him to be playable.
>>738698292Yes, normies love Steve gameplay.
>>738694056Have you tried playing as Min Min? She's great at edge guarding basically every character while also having a very exploitable recovery herself.This video doesn't show clips of Min Min getting gimped but a lot of the clips are edge guards.https://youtu.be/xig-Zd95Nj0?si=pNIWPMspmGTZS9IL&t=54
>>738692786Significantly buff his air speed, air acceleration, make it so he doesn't go into free fall after using up b, increase the size of up tilt so it hits grounded opponents, add a scoop hitbox to up smash and give up air a fatter hitbox.
Who are the doc players that he rised up a few spots?He's one of the few characters I find fun to use.
>>738692271Isai won Genesis with solo Link.
>>738702404thats more so Isai being a god at the game compared to everyone else, Link is still probably the worst character
I'm just happy Puff is a C- tier when so many people thought she was just gonna be a repeat of her Brawl and 4 self. The additional buffs certainly helped.
>>738672063>only like playing one of the S tiersI don't know what that says about me.
>>738680990this game sucks and everyone playing it is either a shitter, lame, or both
>>738672063>Tier Lists
>>738672959Hmph! Pathetic.
>>738674064>>738692268Simpler Times
>>738703052If you play with your bros, tier lists are never going to matter outside of people understanding certain characters have more advantages than others. That being said, that's why you proceed to curbstomb your bro who insists playing 1v1 no item games with Ganondorf. You need to humble them.
Smash ultimate is so unbalanced it only realistically has two tiers. top 8 at major characters, and non-top 8 at major characters. This game is ironically more unbalanced than melee.
She won in the end
>>738672063>Diddy Kong in SI thought that his glory days from Smash 4 were over. And I don't remember him being particularly good in Ultimate, but it's been years
>>738692528>Gotta say, that S tier looks dreadful to play against.More like Stressful because that’s what the S stands for.
>>738702186There's like one Mexican Doc player. I guess he's singlehandedly improving perception of the character. He's placed well in online tournaments, but no one enters those.
>>738703453It's the Banana Peel. There's no beating an item that forces your opponent to trip whenever you want.
>>738680990I'm taking a break until they un-murder my character
>>738703453They took away the hoo-hah, but left him relatively unchanged compared to other top tier characters like Meta Knight and Sheik who were gutted between games. He's still fundamentally decent, but the thing that makes him top tier is the banana. Being able to spawn an item at will which trips opponents is OP. You're forced to over-respect Diddy Kong when he's just holding the banana and doing nothing. It's AIDS.
>>738692786Make Simon do crouching whip attack instead of Richter’s slide. Have it launch the opponent upward to set up combos.Make Dash Attack a quick tackle similar to Falcon and Samus.Make Down Air a downward whip swing like pic related.
>>738703453>>738703574Diddy was pretty shit in early Ultimate but he got some good buffs (I think they fixed his recovery and gave him back his dtilt and dthrow combos, no hoo-hah killing at 80% though).Banana is still too good of a move.
>>738698780For me it’s Dr. Mario
>>738699502>LIGHTER THAN SAMUSSame for Mewtwo and Sephiroth, Sakurai really has a weird bizarre habit of making villains lightweight. While also making Susie in Air Riders heavy for some reason.
>>738703406It's a Min Min world, they just haven't realized it yet.
>>738675013Great tldw anon ty
>>738684268Agreed. And I HATED joker arseneSteve got THAT bad
>>738691179I hope they don’t develop Smash 6.Let somebody else take a crack at it or just bring back Hal so we can see if they still got it in them.
>>738691260Should Ganondorf have been saved for Brawl and skipped Melee?
>>738704321Get the dude making kirby games (Kumazaki I think?) to do a Smash game.
>>738703620She's bottom 3 this patch, but she'll get buffs soon, I hope.It's statistically undeniable that *nobody* is currently playing her.
>>738688684Whether people like it or not, the characters and reveals are the lifeblood of Smash.
>>738687154This will go down as one of those controversial images of the 2020s.
>>738682648Fun Fact: Ike was the first FE character to be added to Smash that was from a game that actually got localized, this was before the DS Marth remakes.
>>738682402Kek
>>738677107Luigi is the most Dishonest character in the base roster. He's a total turtling character that kills you if he lands a grab.>>738686908Joker is Mega/gigaAIDS as well, its just Leo at least is fun to watch despite it.
>>738682218Okay and? What’s the Punchline?
>>738679032I’m looking forward to the Mario Cast getting new voicelines finally.
>>738704443It's fucked up what they did to her. The up special, uair, and side special nerfs were enough, and then they just hit her with like 4 simultaneous nerfs in one patch. It isn't even like she was overrepresented in tournaments. Sandstorm wasn't winning anything, Stang0 won one tournament with her before the up special nerf, and I think she won one tournament after the up special nerf - as a secondary. It didn't seem deserved at all. Her neutral fucking sucks because of the nair and dtilt changes, and her advantage fucking sucks because of the air speed change. She's basically just a FADC spam bot now.https://files.catbox.moe/yfqhaz.mp4When the face of your character is switching to Galvan, you know it's bad.
>>738672321Smelee is dead, lol. We don't even have tournament threads anymore.
>>738704813He's right desu. Imagine a new smash bros game that cuts the roster down by half. Still a frankly absurd amount of characters at what, 40+ characters? All so they can add like a few new characters from new games. Who could they even add to be worth it? Would you still play smash bros if they cut many of your favorite characters?People who care about gameplay the exclusion of all else will probably switch to melee, people who care about the roster would stay with ultimate. What can a new smash bros game even do to compete with themselves?
>>738678080>>738678529>>738678230The unironic Queen of Smash.
>>738677107PUTA???
>>738704813He's right. No one has cared about the gameplay of Smash in over a decade. If they did, they certainly wouldn't be playing Ultimate.
>>738672959 And you know what? Keep him that way, just sprinkle in a bit more GANONDORF stuff in.Falcondorf was, is, and still one of the funnest nigga's in every game hes in, even when hes a fatass old man. We got Young LionDorf back with his giantass sword, more stuff like that.Do wish he didnt have really stupid weaknesses like shit recovery though.
>>738678080Ram Ram shouldnt be able to be angled down off stage, thats some gay shit and the main reason she fucks most characters.Other than that I do like what she brings.
>>738703406>>738687258>>738678080>>738705395>>738678230>>738678529I 100% would've picked up Min Min if her moveset and gimmick weren't so damn awkward feeling to use. I wish she was designed in a more straightforward and traditional way.
>>738705382That being said I’m all for a Reboot, I have a deep fatigue of Ultimate and everyone being here. There is a chance nostalgia for Ultimate could happen but it’s still current game, the longest we’ve been stuck with a game.
>>738704813I hate this grifter Banjo faggot. He is your typical rosterfag, doesn't own the game, never talks about the gameplay, only the roster.
>>738705258>voice crack on mario's star ko scream>wario sounds like shit>luigi may sound okay
>>738705574Took me about 15 hours before getting her awkward controls down, but once I did, there was no going back.Having Z-jump certainly helps.
>>738705574I haven't played Ultimate in years, but if I did I'd play Min Min, because Ultimatefags deserve to suffer and there's no better character to inflict that suffering.
>>738705382well their gonna have to suck it up because the likely hood of them being able to get liscenes for all the 3rd partys twice is probably impossible
>>738705791I hope to god that they don't go the multiversus/rivals 2 path and nickle and dime you for skins and other cosmetics because I know that as much of a smashfag I am I'll buy everything and I don't want to paypig
Min Min for the Win Win
>>738705395Strongest female fighter = Queen. That's how it works.
>>738707164
>>738706981It's inevitable that it'll be nickle and dime time for smash 6 unless its just an ultimate update. Every big fighting game has gone the way of the battlepass and vbuck implementation. If SF6 and Tekken are anything to go by. The only hope would be if Sakurai directs the game and tells big N to fuck off because you know they're salivating at the thought of adding smashbux.
>>738705882You cannot deny he was right about Fire Emblem not having any significant cultural relevance or impact compared to Star Fox and it’s “Do a Barrel Roll” quote.The only cultural impact it had is related to Smash Bros and not within its own franchise.
>>738672063don't care, still playing simonthis just means he's even more of a gigachad to play
>>738705501Falcondorf should be an archetype to allow for more characters to get in. Unironically speaking.
>>738703052Don’t worry Mac Baby, at least you’re still playable while Waluigi is a three time assist trophy.
>>73867206314 top tier characters seems pretty fucking healthy, yeah. most fighting games have like, 4 top tiers.
>>738706981In no world would I compare Multversus's and RoA2's monetization
>>738674060Weird fanfiction. Nintendo doesn't give a shit if you ban characters, they already let people ban most of the stages and all of the items.
>>738707274my worst nightmare
>>738707478true me, it's not
>>738707524Major tournaments need a Nintendo license, and TOs have confirmed that Nintendo won't let them ban characters.https://x.com/MaxKetchum_/status/1986904185627967498
>>738707559cosmetics locked behind amiibo
All I know is that Fox better not look like *that* in Smash 6.
>>738707609shit I never considered that
>>738707597why would they specifically ask permission in the first place? just ban him and nintendo isn't gonna pay enough attention to care. Ask nintendo if you can ban poke-floats and they'd probably say "no" to that too.
>>738707734hyper realistic fox vs chungus kongthe match of the millenium
>>738707870Maybe because official Nintendo tournaments don't ban characters? They occasionally run actual competitive rulesets, but never ban characters.
>Normal guy makes every smash community figurehead shit their pants in fear for no reason.Why are they like this?
>>738676827This is pretty much most of my wanted newcomers in Smash and pretty much every single one was done better or improved with mods in other games. They're all completely unfun to fight and either terribly unfun to use or you just feel like an asshole if you do. Or they suck.>Mega Man>mostly projectiles and Z-drop shenanigans>Simon/Richter>just spam your projectiles all match>Ridley>weird shitty recovery, down-air is almost unusable, and he's simultaneously huge and also light>K. Rool>actually fun but relegated to heavy bullying hell
>>738707870They didn't ask for permission
>>738708004so don't "ban" him, just don't buy the DLC. just host the tournament on a physical copy of the game and if nintendo complains say "we don't have the DLC sorry, if you want us to use those characters make them free".
>>738708178And then people who play those characters won't show up and it'll just be seen as a joke that isn't worth it.
>>738708178All those setups are from people bringing their own Switches with the copy of the game. Anyone who still cares about the game to that extant already bought the DLC anyway
>>738708227>Oh noes~~~ the steve autists, the Mythra coomers, the Minmin simps, and the Joker fags are ALL gonna skip this tournament? whatever will we dooooooo~~
>>738708347Big tournaments cost thousands of dollars to operate, so yes, they would like the registration fees from all the DLC tier whores.
>>738672063I'm so old that the only super smash brothers game I actually played a lot of was the original.:) boomer out
>>738707269Alex is just a skin sharing a slot with Steve, Min Min owns an entire character slot to herself.
>>738708116Maybe the true fan favorite characters were the friends we made along the way.
oh yeah
>>738672063Ganondorf KINGS can't stop winning
that nair and upb nerf really fucked up zero suit samus damn
>>738711483That character pisses me off especially the down b spike that feels too easy to do for them
>>738672063Ultimate is such a boring game competitively. They ended up designing some of the worst characters and with so many match ups nobody wants to play on anything except Pokemon Stadium or Small Battlefield.
>>738672063I disagree with some of these placementsUnderrated:>Ganondorf (D+)>K. Rool (D+)>Dr. Mario (D+)>Mewtwo (C-)>Bowser Jr. (B-)>Banjo (C+)>Ridley (B-)>Robin (top of C+ or bottom of B-)>Byleth (B+)>DK (top of B+)>Terry (A-)>Cloud (A+)Overrated:>Zelda (D-)>Isabelle (C-)>Duck Hunt Dog (C+)>Sephiroth (C-)>Young Link (B-)>Shulk (B+)I think the only glaring ones are Bowser Jr., Ganondorf, Isabelle, and Sephiroth. Yes, Ganondorf is shit, but he actually has the capacity to take stocks off of terrifying people like K. Rool. You only need to hit one string before a good read will steal a stock. Shinda Lion just demonstrated this against the best ROB in Japan a few days ago.Bowser Jr. is just a legitimately decent character and people refuse to accept it. Yeah, his projectile isn't as good as metal blade, banana, or gyro, but it's still good.
>>738712557I forgot the most important thing: Ultimate fucking sucks
>Yoshi in S tierThe Japs are fucking delusional
You now remember allisbrawl
Underrated best Smash Trailer
