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>>738700118
Music and story are also better than Diablo 2s imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVy1x4US9Yc

>>738700118
I still play d2lod vanilla and modded. OP is a niggerloving fag of the highest degree.

>>738700118
It doesn’t require internet

>>738700753
Facts.

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>Can someone explain to me how Diablo 2s gameplay is better than this
Well to begin with, this is awful

>the music and story in d4 are better
Kill yourself

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>>738700118
Beep beep, zoomzoom who started playing D2 a couple months ago and has zero nostalgia for it at all coming through
I can play D2 for hours on end without even the slightest bit of boredom creeping into my brain, finding new loot and exploring dungeons is that fun for me. Everything I've seen from D4, including what you just posted, looks lame. Seems like they're trying to recapture the "vibe" from D1 and D2 and failing hard. The endless cooldown timers are gay.

>>738700118
How can you post "gameplay" like this and not feel ashamed of yourself lol

>>738700348
>Music and story are also better than
okay fine w-
>diablo 2 cutscenes are impactful and dramatic
>diablo 3 2 cutscenes are hectic and chaotic and follow the obviously retarded leah bootleg who is clearly getting bamboozled but you can't do shit because you're retarded STAY ON THE RAILS DIPSHIT DO NOT INTERFERE WITH THE MAIN CHARACTERS YOU'LL BE REWARDED YOUR SHINY LOOT AT THE END OF THE RIDE
fucking generic quota hire one armed bitch straight out of the overwatch racism points graphs
>REMEMBER MESHIF
WHO
THE
FUCK
CARES
ABOUT
MESHIF

D2 was made by a bunch of nerds crunching to hell and back and throwing ideas around to see which sticks. they lucked out making a very memorable game with the help of the super flavorful D1 background
D4 is a sanitized marketing study project made entirely of Q & A's no different than fucking GPT trying to correct its answers after you catch it blatantly spewing bullshit for the billionth time.
>okay anon thanks for noticing it, the leah plot was indeed bad! now I will correct it by making a new character based on d1 and d2 dark themes, which you will like it much like people enjoyed the dark wandered from d2! [makes leah again]

>>738701192
Post some amazing Diablo 2 gameplay then

>>738700118
How is this better than what I posted in OP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNAZAk_Fx8o

>>738701306
>muh nerds made Diablo 2
Don't care. Diablo 4 is better than 2.

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>>738700118
>>738700348
Hang yourselves.

>>738701156
And do what? There's like 8 dungeons in Diablo 2. What do you do, just fight the same bosses over and over to get loot to fight the same bosses again?
>>738702040
You can turn off the damage numbers, retard.

>>738700118
Agreed, D2 is uncslop

Level scaling

/thread

>>738701604
No arpg has amazing gameplay, these games are for soulless husks of people like asmongold

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>>738700118
Nah it's based.
Diablo 2 is simply the best of its genre.

>>738702151
Diablo iii and diablo iv do not exist for me. They were never made. Both are awful looking without music, fantasy was replaced by american politics, gameplay is just running in black grey areas with non-descript enemies, there is no detail, character, nothing to remember it for. The only reason some people would play it is for blizzard good boy points. Will never play it.

>>738700118
D2 is not a live service slop game with microtransactions for useless cosmetics, set tiems aren't handed to you for free from completeing "challenges", and you can sequence break quests. Also, the mercensaries in D2 are actually useful and don't yap about nonesence constantly.

>>738700118
Diablo 2 respects me as a player of video games rather than a purchaser of products.

Diablo 4?
>battle pass
>dedicated store button
>online only
This game costs money and they pretend it's free to play.

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>>738700118
Play Project Diablo 2.
It's much superior to any other ARPG.
https://youtu.be/eIrNwoDyib0?t=173
(this isn't me)

I have more playtime into Diablo 2 than any other game in my life, excluding possibly WoW and I find it hard to come back to it. It's extremely antiquated and arpgs don't have run stamina or hit chance for a fucking reason.

It does a few things well such as aesthetics, tone, loot availability (there are not 12 million items on the floor at once that you need to filter), power scaling (it gets ridiculous but you need to be functionally done building).

Tristram guitar theme is overrated.

>>738700118
>d1
terminator
>d2
terminator 2
>d3
terminator 3
>d4
terminator salvation

>>738702425
I found more set items in my single Diablo 2 playthrough than I have in my 128 hours of D4. Haven't found a single set item so far. Dunno if it's because I've only been focusing on the story so far.
>>738702493
Battlepass and Store can be ignored.
>online only
It's 2026
>>738702532
Yeah aesthetically Diablo 2 is king

>>738700118
>explain to me how Diablo 2s gameplay is better than this
There's a very obvious answer to your question and all you have to do to work it out is watch the ability bar at the bottom of the screen.

>>738702151
there are literally less unique bosses in d4 than in d2

>>738702626
>Battlepass and Store can be ignored.
It literally prompts you with advertisements when you launch the game
>It's 2026
And you're a faggot

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>>738702828
My homosexuality is irrelevent

>>738700118
The lore is better for starterd

>>738702712
???
There's 5 bosses in D2

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>D2
Better itemization
Better music
Better atmosphere
Better classes
Better skills
Better world
Better visuals
Better story
Better writing
Better voice acting
Better cutscenes

>D4
Better in-game store for goycattle
Better immersion-ruining cosmetics imported from WoW
Better millenial writing
Better californian gender selection
Better strong womyn who don't need no man
Better faux-MMO features like world bosses and faggy map events
Better MMO-tier sidequests which require me to fetch 15 bear assholes

Yeah it's actually really close.

>>738703007
>Better music
>Better atmosphere
>Better classes
>Better skills
>Better world
>Better story
>Better writing
Diablo 4 is better in all these apartments.
>those negatives
You haven't played the game.

>>738702151
>What do you do, just fight the same bosses over and over to get loot to fight the same bosses again?
Yes and it's kino

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I've only played Diablo 1 and I liked it.

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>>738703170
You can't be serious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLgKiFbj5Q

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>>738703095
I got it from the bargain bin at Humble with a buncha other sub-par games for 13 Euro, I've played it and it sucks nigger cocks compared to 2 lmao.

>>738703246
I am very serious and you are very gay

>>738703095
>in all these apartments.
good morning saar turn off auto correct on your jeet phone and proofread your shit

>>738703007
>Better itemization
99% of items are dogshit
>Better music
>Better atmosphere
Still not as good as diablo 1, play that instead
>Better classes
They are basically the same
>Better world
If I have to play through act 3 one more time I'm going to kill everyone in this thread
>Better visuals
Visual clarity in d4 is shit, other than that its mostly the same
>Better story
>Better writing
>Better voice acting
>Better cutscenes
True, but who cares about that gay shit? Play a real rpg for that you faggot.

>>738703408
>99% of the items are dogshit
99% of the items are there for you to use temporarily until you get your bis, yes. Only a handful of items are legendarily good, unlike Sloppo 4 which showers you in 'Legendaries' before you hit max level. Fuck outta here 'groid.

d4 could only ever possibly look good to someone that 1) doesn't play ARPGs in general outside of diablo and 2) started diablo with diablo 4

if you assess d4 vs d2 in a vacuum and start individually comparing lots of little things (You) don't understand well, i'm sure you could find yourself thinking d4 improves on d2 in at least a few ways. the problem arises when you assess it as an ARPG and compare it to the last 2+ decades of ARPGs that have come since d2 and iterated on the formula in their own ways. d4 learns nothing from d3. d4 learns nothing from the entire rest of the industry. it's an uninspired game with little to offer other than high production value, and even that is barely put to use

>>738703485
>please give me more filler goyslop
Remember that d2 vs d3 comparison image? One point was that there are so many items that make you want to try a new build. That was a lie in d2, but d4 actually does this.

>>738703614
>1) doesn't play ARPGs in general outside of diablo and 2) started diablo with diablo 4
I have played all diablo games, poe, path of rollslop, chronicon, titan quest 1 and 2, grim dawn, last epoch and tower of kalemonvo.
I disagree, Diablo 4 is fun.

D3 > D2 > D4
I will NOT comment further

>>738703803
D3>D4>D2>D1 for me. They're all 10/10 tier though.

>>738703614
I've played Diablo 1 since it's release on PS1 when I was like 12. Diablo 4 is awesome.

>>738701306
Leah was the only good part of the story though. It can’t all be bleak because then why would anyone want to live in the world? Her cheeriness offsets the dreadful world.

>>738703790
I never said anything about "fun" in that entire post
>>738703883
A likely story

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Why not positive if good

>>738703803
Based, D3 is overhated

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>>738700118
I don't know how anyone can say D4s story is bad. It genuinely feels like I'm being psyoped

>>738703803
>I will NOT comment further
Good, no one needs to hear any more of your bullshit

>>738704012
>I never said anything about "fun" in that entire post
You said "look good", which means it's fun.

>>738702385
this. /v/ has a lot of genuine shitters these days.

>>738704012
100% true. Randomly borrowed it off a nigga friend called Miguel. Played it with my older bro and almost got filtered by the Skeleton King. My bro ended up buying like a million potions and just tanking while I killed the skeles as a rogue.

>>738704175
I played through it and don't remember a single thing that happened to completion, so it definitely wasn't good. Considering I'm a hugely autistic lorefag that's not a good thing.

>>738704240
It's not the games fault you have a shit memory

The format of every blizzard thread is this
>I love goyslop
>but what about old goyslop?
>zoomer here, I played old braindead goyslop and I'm one of the good ol boys now

>The Humble Store version of D2 is Battlenet only, instead of Steam where I can leave a review of how godawful and boring the game is
Really makes me think.

>>738704323
I can still remember the story, to completion, of many RPGs I played 20-30+ years ago -- games I've played only one time in my life. That's not a memory problem, that's a D4 having a shit story problem. Sorry, your game sucks.

>>738700118
There is genuinely nothing good about D4's gameplay.

>>738704391
Then you must not know Diablos lore and had no idea what was happening, because several significant events happen in D4s story.

I don't get it either. Itemization? Literally everyone build uses the same shit. Spirit, enigma, infinity, etc. You want want to melee? Here's your grief/highlords/gores. Oh you want end game? Non existent, just run Baal, chaos sanc, or LK. The only reason people play this is because JSP. Trading is the best part about this game and the music.

>>738704472
Beats whatever the fuck D3 and D4 are doing with their gimmicky uniques.

I played D2 all the way through for the first time and liked it enough to basically play it with 5 classes, but I don't think I'll ever get to the point I start to grind bosses thousands of times for loot. I still wish I had played the game sooner because a younger me would've loved that shit.

>>738704472
Name 5 cool items from D4 that aren't reused names from D2.

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>>738704472
as opposed to diablo 4 where you just equip the green arrow item regardless of what you're playing?

>>738704472
There are extremely rare items like rares that can roll better mods then most uniques, but GL finding one

>>738704639
Go to maxroll, pick any build and look at the build enabling uniques

>>738704834
>Can't name a single memorable item from D4
Good itemization mane. It's the same situation as comparing Vanilla wow to retail. Itemization is made brainless for retards like (you).

>>738704931
retard, the point is there are so many useful uniques that naming them is pointless.
https://maxroll.gg/d4/tierlists/endgame-tier-list
Every build on this table has at least 2 + heir + starless most of the time

>>738700118
bait better retardkun.

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>>738705057
>Diablo 4 has less viable builds with all its superior gimmick itemization
You lost and got raped.

>>738703485
>Sloppo 4 which showers you in 'Legendaries' before you hit max level
You know they have loot filters now, right? Any item that doesn't have 2+ greater affixes isn't worth seeing.

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>>738700118
What exactly sets Diablo 4 above Diablo 2 besides graphics? if it's not better gameplay wise, why wouldn't I just overlook graphics, engage with nostalgia, to enjoy a better Game?

>have to suffer Blizzard OC asian girl for a whole game and an expansion
>unceremoniously killed off screen in the very beginning of the second expansion
Lmao, they're just scrambling with this plot.

>>738700118
>This has to be the biggest case of rose tinted glasses I've experienced in vidya. I love Diablo 2, but I dunno how you can think it's better than 4
The lack of microtransactions and the ability to play the damn thing offline without a Blizzard account.

>diablo 2
creatively innovative
cool game made by cool devs
>diablo 4
creatively bankrupt
pozzed game made by pozzed corporation

>Diablo 2 is a lot like OSRS. SURE there is the pure nostalgia factor. As MOST of us were kids when it came out or started playing when we were kids. But BOTH games were genre/generational defining and everything else SINCE has been a vain attempt to capture the same lighting in the bottle

There has been dozens of ARPGs in the last 26 years. And while SOME of them incorporate or expand objectively better features. They still fall flat when it comes to the capturing the overall package. Path of Exile is probably the closest spiritual successor. But still falls flat overall. In the PvP department obviously.

Divine Divinity and possibly Darkstone were the only other REAL Diablo killers that objectively provided the whole package, but again not the whole package as those were purely offline single player games only.

>blizzdrone thread
Like others said, Diablo 2 is an actual game and not a goyslop live service product. I'm amused by the fact that you blizzdrones kept consooming after Diablo 3, Diablo Immoral and 4 repeating the shit launch of 3.

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>>738700118
Look at this shit. How is Diablo 2 as good as this? I genuinely don't get it

https://streamable.com/msh086

>>738708943
There's literally no poz in Diablo 4

>>738711048
>There's literally no poz in Diablo 4
Pozzed corporation, pozzed game.
I consider MTX and battle pass shit to be poz of a different kind, but even if we limit it to the traditional definition, there is no way a game created by nu-blizzard has 0% of the DEI and faggotry kind.

>>738701156
>exploring
>in an arpg
The shit retarded boomers say to cope with their shit games is unreal

>>738709986
>d2 is an actual game
Then why does it have so little content it pads playtime with impossibly low drop rates and repeating the campaign multiple times?

>>738700118
D3 and D4 look like nothing, gacha generic stuff

D2 is art

>>738705219
D4 tier list is based on actual quantifiable performance, not cope
A MF/Golden farming build is not S tier period. D2tards just out themselves as lying

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>>738711429
30-50 hours is not a small amount of content. You would have a better argument with reused assets and procedural generation (which is true of all Diablo games).
It's a complete game with optional replayability grind.

>>738711265
But there's literally no poz in D4. You can't just make shit up for a reason to hate something
>battlepass and shop
Ignorable. Not excusing them, but you can literally ignore them.

>>738700118
Diablo 2 is Diablo. D3 & 4 is like some wannabe wow/poe shit

>>738711627
>But there's literally no poz in D4. You can't just make shit up for a reason to hate something
I haven't played it, but I simply do not believe you. A pozzed corporation cannot make non-pozzed games.
>Ignorable.
Being online-only isn't.

D2 magic might just be impossible to replicate. Even PD2, as much as I like it, cranks things up too much into the screen clearing turbo tempo territory.

>>738711807
Yeah this is a good point. D2 had just the right balance of combat, in terms of clearing speed and character power.

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These fucking bargain bin jeet marketers that bliz hired are some of the dumbest that I've seen. Nobody in their right mind even considers d4 a worthwhile game, even more so when compared to D2.
Here's a pic to wash out the eye sore d4 is.

I think that sometimes less is more and this is getting lost in modern game developmen. I like lots of different songs, but I don't want to listen to all of them at the same time.

I think focusing on a few things and doing those few things very well is what is needed.

>>738712039
>d2r
>worthwhile
lmao
nice try blizzdrone

>>738700118
Blizzard coping hard after the expansion flopped

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It's difficult to explain to zoomers what makes diablo 2 combat better, same as vanilla wow, because all they see is "the new game has 10 buttons and the old game only had 2" and that's the end of the discussion for them, and also, it's less flashy with fewer aoe flash bangs going off every second.

see, I recently replayed diablo 2, offline self found, hardcore /p8, as a paladin using Zeal, and even just the consideration of what weapon to use made a noticeable difference. I equipped a spear and now my Zeal had much longer range allowing me to kill enemies before getting close enough to hit me, but as a trade off missfiring a zeal would be worse because I get locked into the animation for much longer. these kinds of small considerations simply do not exist in a game like diablo 4, because everything is standardized to always execute the exact same way, and the only difference is in purely statistical, numerical values.
same way in vanilla wow, as a hunter, in order to maintain full auto attack speed, you had to move only during the reload animation between shots, and you also had to take into consideration when to fire your abilities because the reload from firing those could eat into your auto shot timing. in retail wow by comparison, auto attacks mean basically nothing and they just fire off automatically at all times, all the player has to do is press a button when some proc flashes, but there's zero consideration about the execution of the attack itself. the old games created depth from things other than just the number of buttons or synergistic procs.

>>738712381
>I equipped a spear and now my Zeal had much longer range allowing me to kill enemies before getting close enough to hit me, but as a trade off missfiring a zeal would be worse because I get locked into the animation for much longer.
What an interesting decision.
On the other hand, how long did you farm LK for enigma? 500 hours?

>>738712617
I don't farm, I play through the campaign, kill Baal, then move on to something else, until I get the urge to replay the game after a year or two :)

>>738711429
>Then why does it have so little content
It doesn't. Live service content drip and grind is not "content".
>>738711627
The female designs. And Blizzard being so convinced that niggers play diablo that they collabed with KFC and promoted it with black characters. Not to mention replacing Diablo with a manface girlboss demon.

>>738700862
Certain parts of modern design such as excessive cooldowns just fucking suck

>>738712617
>ignore and redirect
Shill playbook.

>>738712381
The extent to which modern homoge-games have been dumbed down is absolutely tragic. It's always in the small details that idiots (and developers) can dismiss as unimportant, without realizing what a difference those details make.
Games are no longer made by gamers, and to a very real extent are no longer played by them either.

>>738712381
I'm also playing on and off my p8 spears only barb, currently trying to find a base for Obedience so I can progress through late Hell while actually killing stuff instead of teleporting to bosses. Upgraded Kelpie Snare still the MVP of the run.

>>738712703
>I'm a casual
got it

>>738700118
there was no good diablo-like game after the original diablo

>>738712381
sex with megameme

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>>738713969
Ahem.

>>738714290
Is this the one where you control multiple characters? That always sounded awkward to me but I always meant to try it

>>738713881
>ad hominem to deflect
Shill playbook.

>>738714421
They have AI and follow you, you can just switch when you want. But yeah, it's definitely a readjustment.
It's made by several of the original Diablo devs iirc and in my opinion it carries the atmosphere really well.

>>738700753
Fpbp
But it's a marketer thread, so it's not worth a bump.

>>738712381
Don't forget hunter deadzoning in vanilla. But yes, even stuff like Hit Recovery, Cast Rate and Block Rate are all gone from nu-Diablo, all those games are made so that zoomers can comfortably get addicted to a worthless skinnerbox and shell out cash for their worthless microtrasnactions that will ultimately become useless once the game's live service ceases operation.

>>738700118
>hear d2 is peak
>try it out
>first enemies are demon imps that are faster than you and run away from you
>offscreen shaman resurrects them
>there's a stamina system for running .exe
>make it to the next zone thinking im finally done with them
>nope, here's a reskin
>uninstall
why do people think this game is good?

>>738714859
>>738714884
lel like a clockwork

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>>738712381
Holy fuck it's so nice to know there are still people on the same wavelength as me.

>>738714859
>Hit Recovery, Cast Rate and Block Rate
Cast rate and block rate are in the game you moron.
Thank god they removed the shitty affixes that clutter the affix pool, or we'd have a poe2 situation where your item rolls get completely bricked by a fucking +light radius roll.

>>738714884
Might as well be AI post. I hope it is.

>"BUT MUH ENDGAMEEEEEEEEEEE"
Why are zoomoids like this? I've never even finished hell in D2 and it is still one of my most fondest games because it is a complete experience just doing it on normal.
After you've killed Baal you can literally put the game down and play something else. This obsession with a game needing to have an infinite endgame you can play for a gorillion hours is absurd.

>>738700118
>giving blizzard money for any reason
Great job consooooomer

>>738715416
>I've never even finished hell in D2
And I never had sex, doesn't mean I don't enjoy stalking women.
Still, I'm probably not the best person to ask about relationship advice.

>>738716346
What even kinda reply is that.

>>738700118
level design is terrible, act 2/3 are god fucking awful linear mazes that you just try to blaze through as fast as possible
balancing is terrible, one class is basically unplayable until you get a certain item
the """difficulty""" changes are beyond terrible. there's nothing skillful or engaging about encountering enemies that are just immune to your damage
90% of hell involves you just skipping mobs because there's nothing you can do
melee is beyond dogshit (which goes back to terrible balancing)
the endgame is mindnumbing dogshit, you're forced to repeatedly farm the same 2-3 areas until you want to slit your wrist
it's a mid game fueled by hype from complete gambling addict uncs

I wish I could start new characters in Nightmare. Normal is boring as hell.

>>738716990
But enough about D4

>>738714490
I have it on GOG and I'm gonna give it a shot tonight. Thanks anon

>>738716990
only based take itt

>>738714884
>there's a stamina system for running .exe
The only valid complaint you have.
>make it to the next zone thinking im finally done with them
>nope, here's a reskin
I'll give you half a point for this one, but only because you narrowly avoided a good argument. The areas are very similar to each other and don't offer much variety.

>>738716346
Are you implying you can't judge a game's quality if you don't finish it three times, twice on optional difficulties?

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>>738700118
>I dunno how you can think it's better than 4

>>738716990
>one class is basically unplayable until you get a certain item
Which one?
>there's nothing skillful or engaging about encountering enemies that are just immune to your damage
75% resistant would be better.
>the endgame is mindnumbing dogshit
>>738715416 is right, "endgame" obsession is cancerous. "Endgame" is the end of normal. You are choosing to embrace grind number up by doing Nightmare and Hell difficulties.

>>738717494
Not quite.
If a game is shit from the beginning, you can obviously tell.
But you can't tell if the game gets shit later on. Which is the case here.

>>738702546
truffnuke

>>738700118
Imagine some awful shitty game like Concord. It comes out today and nobody wants to play it because it's so shit. But now imagine if Concord was released in 1989, in the midst of all the simple platformers and unplayable experimental games released during that era. Online multiplayer, high res 3d graphics, first person shooter, storytelling, stuff nobody had ever seen before or even considered a possibility. The game would be absolutely groundbreaking and it would have reshaped the entire media landscape. But since it was released today, with all the shit we know and have already seen from video games, nobody gave a shit.

And that is what your zoomer brain is trying to do with Diablo 2.

>>738717603
Barbarian. You need at least Grief to make him feel enjoyable to play in hell. Otherwise the damage is too low and your hit chance is going to suck because you need massive attack rating and levels to consistently land attacks.

>>738717603
Playing through just normal is a pathetic amount of content, along with no depth or interesting gameplay

>>738717797
>if I don't get Enigma, Shako, Infinity and Grief within the first hour of starting the game, it's unplayable
Mkay.

>>738717649
>But you can't tell if the game gets shit later on. Which is the case here.
I'll agree with your reasoning, but the additional difficulties are still entirely optional. It's not even like most games where you just select it at the start and can get suckered into playing a badly designed shitfest instead of the intended game, you literally have to engage in an entirely optional New Game+ to see the higher difficulties.
I will add though, that finishing normal difficulty at such a low level does heavily encourage you to keep going so you can see your build come to fruition.

>>738717764
Diablo 2 shows its age but it's still much better than Concord

>>738712381
Much like vanilla WoW the answer is nothing
You can write all about swing timers but you forgot that none of them actually make things *better*
Slow, clunky and shallow isnt better. Different yes, but not good. Theres a reason both d2 and classic wow are completely mogged by their modern releases

>>738717797
>Barbarian. You need at least Grief to make him feel enjoyable to play in hell.
Then at most he's unplayable on hell until you get the right items. He's still perfectly playable on Normal and Nightmare.

>>738717912
Never said anything about enigma or shako. The barbarian is complete suffering and basically completely unenjoyable at the end of nightmare and all of hell until you get Grief. That's an issue. Game's balancing and design is horrible
>>738718034
No one cares about normal or nightmare, the game's entire focus is grinding for high runes and the best possible items on hell difficulty.

>>738717912
Go play a blizzard sorc and then a barb afterwards and tell us what's much more enjoyable. Unless you like running around slow as shit and never hitting anything. But at that point you might as well just play poe2.

>>738717851
>Playing through just normal is a pathetic amount of content
No, it isn't. It's a normal amount of content for a normal game. You're backporting modern skinner box sensibilities to it and saying it doesn't function as a game because it doesn't have enough hundreds of hours of content.
But it does end too soon for your build, I'll admit.
>along with no depth or interesting gameplay
Disagree entirely.

>>738717993
>Slow, clunky and shallow isnt better. Different yes, but not good.
None of the things he mentioned are clunky or shallow. Slow, in the sense that you have to commit to an attack, is good if it adds depth.
>completely mogged by their modern releases
lmao

>>738718184
>You're backporting modern skinner box sensibilities to it
Nigger, you're talking about d2, the original fucking skinner box.

>>738718092
>No one cares about normal or nightmare, the game's entire focus is grinding for high runes and the best possible items on hell difficulty.
Then you're proving the point that's been made in this thread that you're treating it simply as an "endgame game". It's not the "entire focus" at all, it's the meta that has grown around in the years since its release. And that meta was heavily fueled by online leaderboard play, which does not define the single player experience.

>>738718094
I actually dislike sorc do you don't have a point there. Even if I had to metagame my first ladder character I'd rather just get a paladin or maybe amazon.

>>738718302
It's only a skinner box if you choose to treat it as one.
It's a game that pioneered design elements that would become skinnerboxes. It was made to be a complete single player game, like Diablo 1 was, and as a complete single player game it functions just fine.

>>738718184
It takes a few hours to clear normal playing casually
Its laughably small. Even the speedruns are less than half the length of a PoE campaign speedrun

>>738718327
>It's not the "entire focus" at all
For 95% of the playerbase it is

>>738718274
Its explicitly slow and clunky
And its shallow because you're forgoing actual depth in favor of shitty animation locks or swing timers.

>>738700118
because it's not an online only trash game. also it was during a time when blizzard wasn't jam packed with fucking retarded tourist left wing faggots. fuck nu blizzard and their pozzed staff.

>>738718418
You cannot justify the drop rates of countless good items in d2 if it's designed as a campaign mode single player game

1.POE1
2.DIABLO 2
3.POE2
4.GRIM DAWN
5.LAST EPOCH
6.TORCHLIGHT 2
7.TITAN QUEST
8.CHRONICON
9.DIABLO 3
10.DIABLO 1
11.TITAN QUEST 2
12.DIABLO 4
13.TORCHLIGHT 3

>>738718520
>any software company
>not left wing faggots
lol
lmao

>>738711323
>>exploring
>>in an arpg
Yes, you do that in an arpg, have you not played one before?
>The shit retarded boomers say
I'm probably younger than you

>>738718693
based

>>738718693
>1.POE1
Maybe 10 years ago.

>>738718743
L O L
No retard you spam teleport to zip through maps at mach10 in an arpg.
There is no exploration

>>738718926
0 and 1 mind that always jumps to the endgame scenario no matter what. What causes that?

>>738719042
having actually played the game before

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old arpg player:
>explores the level
>tries out various skillbuilds
>doesnt follow guides, just picks whats cool
>plays for 40 hours, beats boss, maybe tries nightmare
>"that was fun"

modern poe player:
>rushes to the exit, skips all optional content
>follows a guide
>90% of the game is spent in endgame farming for high tier gear
>"it gets fun when you hit level 99 bro thats when you oneshot everything"
>is a faggot

>>738718441
>Applying your multiple tens of hours experience onto a first time playthrough
Disingenuous fuck. Someone playing D2 for their first time is not going to clear the game in a few hours unless they are having a walkthrough running on their second monitor.

>>738718926
>No retard you spam teleport to zip through maps at mach10 in an arpg.
No, you don't do that, unless you're specifically talking about endgame, which is obviously not what I'm talking about, retard

>>738719042
You dont need to be at endgame to spam teleport retard

>>738718926
>No retard you spam teleport to zip through maps at mach10 in an arpg
Not sure why you'd do that. Doesn't sound fun

>>738719105
Explores for what exactly?
If it takes you 40 hours to reach nightmare you have brain damage, but every Gen X and millenial did get their brain fried by leaded gasoline fumes so that tracks

>>738719153
For some people the fun in the genre comes from watching your character grow in strength, rather than playing baldurs gate 2 but for stupid people

>>738719105
>>plays for 40 hours, beats boss, maybe tries nightmare
How would it take you 40 hours to beat normal? The first time I played D2 it took me like 20 hours to beat normal
>>738719270
>There can only be one source of fun in a game at a time

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>>738703246
Looks boring as shit desu

>>738719219
i've played my first run of D2 before you were born lil bro

Holy neckbeard sweat this thread full of cope

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Diablo 4 has level scaling, therefore its shit

>>738719270
That's crazy because I enjoy both

>>738719543
>more content is worth doing instead of just act 4
This is bad because...?

>>738718469
In 2026 maybe. Nobody is forcing you to sweat and farm hell on repeat moron. You can just play the game like a normal person. Who the fuck cares if everybody else is playing the game like autistic retards?

>>738700118
All the Diablo games get progressively better as they go along.

I get the love for Diablo 2. There’s something you can’t replicate playing it at 11pm on a PC in 2003, but overall the game is a 7.5/10. There are some awful levels in D2.

It’s still the most playable RPG of that era though, so it came out on top. Try going back to Baldurs Gate 1 or Morrowind or Icewind and feel how fucking clunky everything is. At least D2 is still playable.

zoomers are dumb animals, stop trying to convince them to play games better than they deserve.

>>738719682
>Who the fuck cares if everybody else is playing the game like autistic retards?
Probably the developers of such games

>>738719543
Level scaling is good. I don’t get how people are against it.
Actually, levelling and levels in RPGs as a whole is shit.

I figure people just really like the idea of going to an early level and thinking,
>HOLY SHIT! not I’m doing 1277 damage against this skeleton! Look how much stronger I’ve gotten…
When in reality… number go up

>>738719857
Puke worthy post.

>>738719714
>Morrowind
>stupid stamina system
>stupid hit chance calculation
>horrible balance
>Diablo 2
>stupid stamina system
>stupid hit chance calculation
>horrible balance

>>738700118
4 was made by nu-blizzard so it's automatically shit.

>>738719897
What’s the actual argument against level scaling other than gating the player out of areas to expand the runtime of a game, which is a developer preference that started in the 80s, not a player driven one

>>738719714
Its not even an rpg
You have 0 agency in the world. Its completely linear and on the rails

>>738719857
I'm indifferent about level scaling, but it's necessary if you're doing open world. And open world is vastly superior than running the same campaign for 10 years.

>>738719939
>this post
>stupid opinions
>horrible understanding of D2 and Morrowind

>>738712838
that's kind of a Paladin design more then anything, which is probably why Paladin's get a bunch of CDR in Paragon boards and shit

>>738719985
They all have random dungeons and a main story and you walk around with a drone camera hitting demons

>actually d1 isn’t technically an rpg because the prebuilt char-
>actually d4 isn’t because the back pack is-

Cool. Let’s listen to /vrpg/s 100 different definitions on what an RPg is.

>>738700118
Looks like path of exile.
And i don't mean this as a compliment to either game.

>>738719976
You are not gating the player, you make him move to those areas. With scaling you might as well level to max by killing the first enemy outside the starting town, waiting for it to respawn/reload the game to respawn, and then doing that again and again, since the mob levels up with you. You failed at game design if that's possible.

>>738720082
>proc gen
Doesnt make it an rpg
>main story
Story games arent rpgs if you are on the rails
Baldurs Gate is an rpg series, Diablo is not. Figure it out

>>738700118
I genuinely have no idea what can people enjoy about d3 and 4

Even multiple difficulties in they are complete autopilot games where you are just mashing your skills when they are off cooldown, autoclear rooms (that are also kind of linear compared to d1/2) and auto equip the no-brainer highest stat gear that you are showered with

This is so fucking different from you constantly having to make small decisions in d2 to progress efficiently. Managing your inventory, potions, money, stat points, skill points, gems/jewels/runes, constantly having to evaluate interesting items, even save some for later, look for interesting items at the shops
Minion type enemies giving you 5x+ xp also adds an extra layer of how you want to progress, it's not just "clear everything" everytime but a lot of sniping key targets, dungeons are actually labyrinth-like where you need to pay attention to them, bunch of enemy types can actually fuck your shit up and you need to care about positioning, enemies can actually have elemental resistances or deal massive elemental damages you need to build around, etc.

I couldn't care less how much more sparkly D3/4 skill effects are than the ones in d2, especuially when in d3/4 every class feels the exact same just with different visual effects with everyone having the same giant aoe screen clearing abilities and high mobility

And ofc none of this shit even touches the artstyle, music, story, or the fact that in d2 you are actually progressing through 3 campaign difficulties and towards an endgoal rather than having a throwaway campaign and the "real game" being just endless grinding of the same randomized dungeons

Let’s just be real, the whole thing with Diablo 4 is that people hate modern blizzard. That’s it.

Oh except everyone loves Larian, even though they put the cock and balls on the female.
Everyone loves BG3 even though it’s fucking junk, but watch out it’s Diablo IV with the better gameplay and story watch out nigga

I consider nightmare to be the perfect difficulty. Hell requires too much management of immunities and resistance attacking to not get one shot, normal is too easy. Nightmare makes you consider your choices, but also puts up walls to overcome.

has diablo 4s memory leak been fixed

>>738720220
I haven't specifically slagged off diablo 4 because I haven't played it, but I will never play it because I do indeed hate modern blizz. Justifiably so too.

>>738720216
Games with level scaling have you play every area
Games without is where you stay in one chunk of it (in d2 its act 4) and grind for a thousand hours

>>738720220
Let me give a 1000 word dissertation on a face Neighrelle makes for one frame in a cinematic

>>738720265
I'd say Nightmare is easier than Normal. It's such a power spike for most builds it's insane.

>>738720216
>You failed at game design if that's possible.
It's a game that's designed with seasons in mind. The worst part of d2 and poe1 was replaying the campaign multiple times a year. Maybe its fun the first 5 times. The next 20 times it may be okay. But after some time it's just annoying.
In that case it's better to just let people do endgame activities to level.

>>738720343
Nightmare is not much harder than normal until travincal. Thats where I feel the difficulty actually has a spike. Act 5 nightmare can throw some genuinely dangerous stuff at you if you aren't focused. Some builds are just so op you'll probably not notice though

>>738720343
No way, in normal enemies simply can't kill you and die to anything. You can get through normal with a single golem or bear doing all the work. Your biggest struggle is chugging mana portions in most builds, since you likely won't have insight on a merc at that point.

>>738720443
Its not even fun the first time

>>738720218
What the fuckngame are you playing you literally use two skills in d2 and you spam health and purple potions that is the entire game.

There’s no positioning, it’s the first skill tree ever invented in video games and the whole thing is based around minimal movement due to m&kb.

Diablo 2 is cool, but people gotta stop dickriding the combat like it’s some 10/10 experience. Tell me what fucking Colonial war tactics you’re doing in Maggot Lair with lightning bolts everywhere. Tell me.

The parts where d2s combat is good is the line of sight stuff in dungeons. THATS the actual golden part of combat.

>>738720325
>in d2 its act 4
No it's not. Where did you even get that idea, some intern gave you wrong talking points? A4 only has Chaos Sanctuary, every other act has lv85 areas that are common farming spots because they can drop every item in the game, or 80-85 areas that provide something unique (Countess for runes, Cows because of density, Travincal etc)

Isn't D4 an always online game? Why wouldn't you play Lost Ark at that point? It's not like Blizzard can compete in terms of quality anymore.

>>738720464
The biggest worry of every normal run is
>LOOKING FOR BAAL?
Duriel, and Diablo's lightning hose are the only real threats of death the whole difficulty

>>738720539
Who can outdo blizzard in quality?
GGG cant even make half the builds in poe 2 compete with lightning arrow shit after over a year

>>738720594
no one plays lightning arrow in poe2

>>738720516
>A4 only has Chaos Sanctuary
>only

>>738720678
thats because no one plays poo2

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>>738720837
10k players 5 months into a league isn't bad
More than poo1 which is 2 months into a league

>>738720502
>muh combat
these are action RPGs anon, not dmc/hades
No diablo game requires "real combat skill" whatsoever other than environmental awareness and some basic positioning every now and then. The challenge of these games comes from the constant decision makings you have to do to keep staying strong enough to progress efficiently. D3/4 near compeltely lacks these decisions and just handles you autoclearing and mandatory grinding.

in d2 if you pay attention to what items you use, how you upgrade them, how you spend your money and other resources, stats, skills, how you approach levels, etc. it makes a huge difference in how efficiently you progress. In D3/4 it doesn't.

again, it doesn't matter how in d4 you are spamming 6 sparkly skills brainlessly whenever they are off cooldown, instead of even the absolute simplest combat in d2 like using attacks with frenzy barbarian, it's literally just key chain rattling vs actually having an endgaging character progression with nonstop decision makings

>>738720934
people are practicing for the new poe2 league that's why

>>738721184
>In D3/4 it doesn't.
How's farming t4 going for you?
You get huge power spikes by equipping good items.

>>738702546
Best analogy I've have ever seen.

>>738721406
the devs already said not to practice layouts because a lot of them are getting changed in 0.5

>>738721695
that wont stop people who are hyped

I made a mistake.

>>738721449
the game forcing mandatory grinding isn't decision making

decision making requires impactful options, like interesting items with vastly different effects you need to decide from, but also tons of constant small decisions. D4 barely has any of that these even dozens of hours in, it's mostly just you grinding for some devs' pre-planned synergy build with some no-brainer mobileslop tier crafting/upgrading system tackled on, while your gameplay in udngeons is just braindead autoclearing and autopickup of everything

>>738722063
>decision making requires impactful options
Are you really talking about diablo 2? Life/res rares, uniques with +skills and/or fcr. Maybe some breakpoint stuff the game doesn't tell you about.
Because the decisions you make in that game is ridiculously easy. Just like in poe, just like in grim dawn, just like in every other diablo.
Unless you're talking about the extreme endgame, where you'd basically just have to do the math to figure out whats better. But obviously you're not, because decision making in d2 endgame is even simpler, as every other build uses the exact same items.

/v/ is actually disgusting now, the only alive threads are on complete slop, no one wants to play anything. I remember when the diablo general died and the mod started forcing this shit here, now look at the board. All shit and getting slower and slower by the day. Everyone who plays anything decent is leaving.

>>738722360
I'm not talking about having to figure out some puzzles

in d2 you make a new character and you constantly have to make decisions from beginning to end, it is what makes the game engaging and why it still has more players 26years later than D3/4 has despite those games together sellign 10 tiems more copies
how you explore the levels, what enemies you snipe, what items you pick up, what items you equip, what gems/runes you use right now/spare for later, what charms you keep, what stats/skills you upgrade, what things to buy from shops
items actually give you meaningful and impactful things from the begining like new skill points, meaningful mobility boost, huge boost for finding unique items, or elemental resistances against enemies that can easily kill you, skill charges of other classes that can be used by everyone, etc.

none of these little decisions are some complex puzzles, but they keep the game engaging all the way through and make a huge difference in how efficiently you progress. It's not something you have to play dozens of hours of autopilot gameplay with a single character before you get a fraction of this like in d3/4

>>738723352
>in d2 you make a new character and you constantly have to make decisions from beginning to end
lol

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>>738700118
Diablo 2 is an actual game.
Diablo 4 is a store front for cosmetics.

>>738723352
The amount of micro decisions you make in a difficult D4 battle can be insane in regards to pace.

D2 isn’t about combat, it’s about exploration. That’s the whole intent with the backpack, that you’re bringing along things to survive an expedition deeper into the world.

You have to understand that you’re simply clicking enemies in Diablo 2 with some spacing here and there. This is like saying D1’s combat is complex. They’re not, they’re about the tone and atmosphere.

>>738700118
D1 moggs 2 hard
D3 is better than 2
D4 is too watered down

Is Blizzard doing some marketing push or something? Why am I seeing "D4 is actually amazing" threads crop up often?

>>738704175
Its dumb, lorath attacking Amazon Queen and her did not notice that he was controled, forced Lilith, angels that does not care about humans but they can be destroyed by them if demons will corrupt humans, demons statue and shitty ugh demons are not that bad shitty narration in npc dialogues, making inarius dumb, tyrael still negro etc ...

>>738724457
>thing comes out
>is good
>peple talk about it
>IS THIS MARKETING

Lord of Habib is just a solid expansion.

>>738724362
For me its D1<D4<D3<D2 only gameplay
I dont get this farming after killing main boss to finish build its stupid but if i have to i prefer to have more variety of working builds than 2 per class

>>738724803
How much is Blizzard paying you?

>>738724362
Incredibly zoomer take.

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>diablo 4 releases 40$ to 100$
>you can play multiple specs for each class
>content is nightmare dungeons, bosses, whispers, helltide
-----
>FIRST EXPANSION 40$ to 100$
>a stat squish happens that bricks 90% of all uniques completely killing off being able to play off meta builds locking all classes to 1-2 specs tops
>a class nobody asked for is added spirit born
>map size is increased by 25% with no new content
>pit, hoards, and undercity are added as instanced things to do
>"mercs" are added which aren't mercs, you cannot interact or equip them
-----------------
>SECOND EXPANSION 40$ to 100$
>the skill tree is dumbed down, you now get no new options beyond level30 and instead put the remaining points pumping up your four options to 15/15
>IF you did not buy expansion two all previous classes you already bought now have locked skill options you can no longer use
>two new classes added
>map size increased by 25% with no new content
>no new content to do added
>a new third item re-roll system added
>a loot filter added
>a table added forcing you to do the already seven existing activities in a certain order for table exp that has those activities reward five extra drops of loot

>>738724913
$34 an hour. Companies don’t use forums anymore, it’s dated, aside from the Chinese putting retards here over gacha wars.

>>738712381
>diablo 2 is better!
>troonime image
>a bunch of other troonime posters agree
ah, i get it now, ill get diablo 4 now, thanks

>>738722502
/v/ is officially dead, 4chan is dead and everyone is on twitter + discord, soon 4chan will no longer exist