I really wish AA games would have competent protagonists again

>>738713204
I feel Apollo does fine considering his clients and that ultimately the only thing Perceive does is make him badger the witness.

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>>738713204
You posted the wrong Edgeworth

>>738713330
Now im curious as to why you would have that kind of reaction. Is it just a Turnabout Serenade shitpost thing?

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>>738713204
>implying

>>738714558
This one is funny because canonically she's considered good, but, still canonically, she is the one credited with the "press literally everything and point out any random fault" strategy. It's absolutely the kind of thing a young woman lawyer would do though, strangely accurate.

>>738713449
He looks like he has a theory.

>>738715284
Become a top tier attorney with this one simple trick. Prosecutors HATE it!

>>738715384
I think the boobs help, but not sure.
But yea, Mia's entire thing is autofiring the Press button and believing in her client. Think she wasn't the one who came up with the "outside-the-box" stuff tho, iirc that's Diego.

Phoenix's contribution in all of this is apparently just bluffing extremely hard lmao.

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>>738713204
>defense attorney
That badge isn't even yours.

>>738713449
Now this is correct.

>>738714558
This is also correct. Damn she was fierce in those flashback cases.

>>738715535
>Damn she was fierce in those flashback cases.
Imagine the kinky lesbian hatesex between her and Dahlia.

>>738715679
That's probably what Mia does when she's not being channeled

>>738715860
If the spirits of the dead people could interact somehow, I wouldn't be surprised to find out those two are still seething at each other.

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>>738715352
>wait a second... that card

>>738716095
I can't take Greg seriously anymore.
Fuck I miss AOV so much

>>738716128
I miss it too, too much of a wage slave to case for half a day now

>>738716292
Normalize splitting cases in multiple days like the game does. Though that would require people to organize on Discord or at least a /vg/ general.

>>738713204
Payne is the only one. The rest are jerks.

>>738716504
Klavier literally did nothing wrong and is the prosecutor who straight helps the defense as soon you meet him.
They seriously missed the chance to make him a cute girl instead. if anything because that would make 4-3 an idol case, at least it would be kawaii as fuck

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>>738716292
>>738716128
Would you play it if I made an online lobby game like this?
I've been mulling over how to handle multiple people wanting to type/enter text at once, I remember AO was a fight to get the output text to show with others sometimes. I considered voice chat but that sounds so distracting sometimes and a major advantage over other players who don't want to VOIP

>>738716784
idk, AO already exists and by now it is perfectly functional, so does DRO(which is an AO expansion in practice), and obviously https://objection.lol/courtroom , it's not an issue with the lack of clients.

>>738713204
>defense
Huh?

>>738716945
3-5, very technically AAI2-2

>>738716929
Oh, why did I think AO was dead?

>>738717083
Probably not as active, but I've heard people are still casing even nowadays.
Many years ago we actually had Attorney Online /v/idya threads.

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>>738713204
he's the most competent character in the series, that's his thing

>>738717054
>3-5,
He didn't even win that one

>>738717302
If only because it's too bullshit to win in a single day and he literally just came back to Japanifornia.

>>738717382
>he literally just came back to Japanifornia.
At the meantime Franziska just came back from Japermany and wasn't even at the crime scene
He completely had the advantage

>>738717472
Franny didn't win either tho, they just delayed it(which is a partial win for the defense supposedly, since they basically do "guilty until proven innocent")

>>738717546
>since they basically do "guilty until proven innocent")
But that means if they waste three days it is a loss for the defense.
Not that Franziska would be happy with such a victory.

>>738716691
Klavier is your assistant who mistakenly took place at the wrong side of the courtroom.

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Edgebros... What the fuck is this?

I mean I know he's not in court or anything, but... What the fuck is this?

>>738717654
Better than losing on the first day.
Though yeah, a 3 day time limit that ends with a Guilty verdict is such an incredibly bullshit system.

I wonder if any cases would be improved by dropping the time limit, having them happen in the span of more days. And on that note, what would be the advantages of using AA format against non-AA courtroom thriller, assuming they are still all murder cases of course.

>>738717768
>assistant
That would have been extra funny. Just have the prosecutor look and act 100% like a cute girl assistant. They better try this eventually.

>>738716945
>>738717302
3-5 day 1 is the only time in the mainline franchise where the player character swiftly articulates everything the player is thinking at each step, without dragging banalities, and keeps a cool head instead of freaking out at the slightest setback.

>>738717910
That particular Kay sprite fucking cracks me up everytime I see it

>>738717994
>keeps a cool head instead of freaking out at the slightest setback.
It kinda annoyed me how Phoenix is still acting like that in DD/SoJ
Makes sense for Apollo somewhat, and obviously Athena, but you aren't really selling the idea that Phoenix is their competent boss and a law god by now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYJRsaJBZn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4xvgCAcFd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CksFbpW7mXg
Why does this spinoff have such a good OST?

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>>738718003
She's so fucking smug.

>>738718089
The way I understood it, and they tell you this by putting Phoenix as the "prosecutor" in 6-5, is that he's always been this mess inside but has a good poker face to hide the nervousness. So you only really notice while having access to his thoughts.

>>738718206
I really liked that case, even if it's just attempt number 14 to try and make Apollo look cool.

>>738718206
His personality aside, he is supposed to have more experience under his belt.

>>738718336
Which is kinda backwards because the best way to make Apollo cool would be to just let him become smarter at solving cases and helping Athena out.

>>738718421
No, have a new story about the real reason why he wanted to be an attorney instead.

Capcom should just release an Ace Attorney Maker already.
Custom sprites/music allowed, of course.

>>738719206
Also good. Phoenix was given 2 reasons alone in his first game(wanting to stand for people like Larry, and the class trial with Edgeworth), and technically gained one in T&T specifically to work under Mia.

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>Proof that I'm a real lawyer

>>738719495
Ah, Phoenix Wright. Please don't start roaring like last time, you damn near gave us a heart attack

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>>738719495
lol get mogged pal.

>>738719495
When you think about it, the case works because the people involved are:
>Maggey, who doesn't really know Phoenix much outside of 2-1, and well... she's Maggey.
>Payne, same guy who claimed somebody with a snapped neck could write the defendant's name, though in his case he's really fucking dumb, he literally met Phoenix thrice before 3-3
>The Judge, who is an old fuck and easily impressionable, he doesn't question being whipped by Von Karma, what did you expect?

>>738719971
Is Payne the same guy in 1, 2 and 3? I don't know why I assumed they were different guys even though I think they're all called Winston.

What is Miles overall opinion of Franziska?

>>738720290
It's still Winston Payne yea, also in AJ.
He's replaced by Gaspen in DD/SoJ, who is a massive asshole compared to Winston.

>>738717994
>>738718089
3-5 and Rise from the Ashes are meant to be Takumi setting up that Phoenix has matured into a full-fledged attorney, so now Apollo can take over. Then they got a new director who insisted Phoenix come back and they hit the reset button on his development.

>>738720603
What does 3-5 have to do with him maturing?

I still think they should take the chance to try something like a real prosecution side game(maybe with Franziska MC, or a new character), or instead of a sequel you for a prequel(e.g. a Mia game, might or might not feature her dealings with Morgan or the Hawthornes, and should definitely feature working with cases involving White even if you never get to him directly)

>>738721108
I want another Investigations game. The mainline investigation scenes are pretty boring compared to the more indepth ones in AAI. It doesn't neccessarily need to be Edgeworth either, I wouldn't mind seeing a Klavier investigations or even a Sholmes investigations.

>>738721186
I don't mind AAI, but I like the courtroom trials so I'd rather see that.
Prequels/spin-offs would be more interesting than sequels at this point, Takumi was smart about moving to DGS instead.

>>738713204
Can we agree that 1-5 is the best case of all series?

>>738721909
No. It has worse pacing than 2-3, and retroactively makes JFA's plot dumber. Most of the case feels like a tech demo for AJ evidence mechanics, though sure enough it's better than any AJ case.

Will never not be funny to me how in AA trials the defense does cross-examination of their own witnesses(which is already rare enough, but you have instances like Larry being summoned as a defense witness more than once) or even the DEFENDANT.

>>738721909
It's great and improved the original game, but I still prefer 3-5.
All the final cases of the original trilogy are fantastic. And yes I'm calling both 1-4 and 1-5 final cases here

>>738722485
From what I understand of the kangaroo court system of Japanifornia, it seems like calling witnesses is only something that the prosecution really does, so by default every witness is assumed to be testifying on behalf of the prosecution, and so the defense has to cross-examine them.
Having the defendant testify is utterly retarded though except for in 1-4 where it makes sense because the defendant honestly thinks they're guilty. But judging by the whole Gant thing in Rise from the Ashes, it seems like only certain people have the right to refuse to testify in Japanifornia so there's not really much a lawyer can do to tell their client to shut up in court (or when talking to the cops).

>>738723029
I could've sworn there's a few moments where the defense gets to call up a witness, but since our player characters are kind of retarded and flying by the seat of their pants ther's not much chance to prep witnesses.
Although maybe I'm just misremembering it

>>738723029
>it seems like calling witnesses is only something that the prosecution really does
Apparently yes purely in terms of formal proceedings, though like the other anon points out, there are cases where the defense decides to call somebody specifically to counter the prosecution's case.

>Having the defendant testify is utterly retarded though
ikr. Especially in something like 3-1 where Phoenix's testimony, if unchallenged, would make him innocent.
(unlike 1-1 where Payne shows that Larry has a motive at least, and Phoenix does not cross-examine until Sahwit)

>>738723289
Can't remember perfectly, but you have 1-4/3-5 Larry, and 4-3 Lamiroir+Machi.

>>738721108
I think Investigations was as close as they were willing to go. Think about it, being a defense attorney is honorable because you are defending the wronged. Edgeworth had a mission to also rid the world of crime that specifically pertained to his investigations, but it's always at the angle of "finding the sneaky bastard who cowardly his from their crime". To prosecute means you already have someone indicted, sure this could also try to use the " get the sneaky coward who did this" angle but the angle seems much much more offensive than defensive than the investigation side did. I think that tone is what they are trying to not go for because they ultimately want the protags to feel honorable.

>>738721371
>>738721186
Why dont we have investigation crime scenes and classic courtroom trials? The floe of the Investigation games usually called for large breaks in the crime scene scanning for large conversations that basically ended up being the trial segments in shorter bursts. And mind you, because contradicting the testimonies requires evidence, you rarely ever stray from the flow of investigation and evidence collection first, testimony 2nd.

>>738713449
>dressed like a detective
>acts like a detective
>is a defense attorney

WHY

>>738723029
On one hand, there are no shortage of people IRL even who fail to grasp the law and understand how they have legal rights to not tie their own noose, but on the other that would be the job of the defense attorney to remind them, so lol.

>>738723906
>>738723906
I think a game where you play as the prosecutor would work if the opposing defense attorney was a scumbag and it was more about countering their bullshit arguments and eventually culminated in being able to indict the defense attorney themselves on something like forged evidence. The defense would try shit like an insanity plea or pining it on someone else and the prosecution would have to prove that the defendant is competent to stand court and that they did in fact commit the crime.

>>738724098
In AA, defense attorneys are doing detective work more often than not.

>>738723906
Think the real problem is that, as Takumi puts it, AA is a murder mystery game with a courtroom setting.
It makes sense to be on the side of the defense because you have to figure out the true culprit and how they did it still, and AAI is doing that even when nobody else is getting accused yet - but playing prosecution in the trials where you supposedly already have a defendant and a case to argue for would turn the mood of the game into something that's removed enough from mystery narrative.

>>738724036
>Why dont we have investigation crime scenes and classic courtroom trials?
Yeah that's the billion dollar question. AAI system could easily become part of mainline games, except you make the courtroom-like sections actually happen in a courtroom.

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>stares at you

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who would win in a debate?

I like Sebastian the best!
I would be thrilled if he showed up in a future game as a competent prosecutor after his growth over the course of AAI2

>>738724409
>AAI system could easily become part of mainline games
The investigation segments of the mainline games are generally unpopular enough as is, so I don't see Capcom wanting to expand on them. Streamlining them further a la DD/SoJ is probably the right call, or they could just remove them altogether, assuming AA7 ever gets made. Turnabout Storyteller was a non-tutorial case that didn't have an investigation segment and worked perfectly fine without it.

>>738724409
Is there even any functional difference between the investigations games and the mainline games? You’re still listening to testimony, pressing statements, and pointing out the contradictions with evidence. They’re the same games, ones just in third person lol

>>738724568
I hope so, Eustace's development was great in AA2

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>>738724098
The flashback case takes place during a severe winter storm and his court outfit looks kind of lame anyways

>>738724658
>The investigation segments of the mainline games are generally unpopular enough as is, so I don't see Capcom wanting to expand on them.
Well maybe they wouldn't be if they worked like AAI(minus the part where you do CEs in the wild, you can still have Logic or Psyche-Locks/Mind Chess tho). Wouldn't want the game to go courtroom-only though, because the out of court interactions are cool.

>>738724698
Effectively not. That's why you could literally throw in AAI system, but keep those segments you mentioned for the trial days.

>>738724698
I think this question can get us caught in the weeds. The investigation flow TECHNICALLY is the same but Edgeworth is walking around a space where the other character objects exist in, whereas investigations you are clicking the backgrounds. It's pretty easy to see when the Investigations scenes are transitioning from "roaming point and click" mode to "conversation and interrogation scene" mode, there's often a screen fade or BGM shift you don't see otherwise. The is largely cosmetically different more than functional though IMO. You could also argue Edgeworth's Logical Chess game is just his version of the Psyche Locks/ Apollo's Tell Bracelet/ Mood Matrix gimmick, but I think the Clue Joining mechanic isn't as obviously railroaded as those minigames are and feels like an arguable mechanical difference.

>>738724568
His fantranslation name really was the best. I mean what I say when I say this and I say what I mean.

>>738724749
I fucking loved the way his theme changes from a clumsy sounding waltz to a tango once he gets his act together. I do wish we got to spend a little more time with him after that moment

>>738725153
Actually being able to walk around the crime scene versus staring at a background makes a huge difference even though the gameplay loop isn't really different
Also being able to point out contradictions in the crime scene instead of having to wait until court to do anything helps a lot too.

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>>738725438
Let's not forget Logic. It's a simple, but much more interactive minigame than anything mainline AA ever did during investigations. Really there is a lot you can throw there to do before the trial sections if you wanted to.

And in the trial sections themselves, you could add some fun stuff too.
Other than prosecution's rebuttal, I'd like to see how they do a Redirect system(which would mean now the defense can genuinely summon witnesses on their side, but will still have to do support them in redirect after the prosecution's own CE)

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>>738723906
I feel like the premise of the games is backwards, irl the defending attorney is almost always the scumbag (think Saul Goodman type of guy), while the prosecutor wants criminals in prison.
Sure, when they are clueless they'll just put some innocent in prison for the sake of it but I doubt that's 99% of cases like Ace Attorney wants us to believe

>>738725638
>irl the defending attorney is almost always the scumbag (think Saul Goodman type of guy), while the prosecutor wants criminals in prison.
Well the people in AA sure act like that, it's just the protags being good attorneys specifically defending innocents.

>>738725636
How they went from this to a fucking thereapy session during court because the witness isn't giving you the answer you want is beyond me.

>>738725638
Judges, defense attorneys, and prosecutors are all usually cut from the same cloth in real life. There are both honorable people with a passion for justice and conniving corrupt fucks among all of them.
The Kyle Rittenhouse trial always sticks in my mind as what a real-life dickwad prosecutor looks like.

>>738725638
It's narratively better if you're the defense. If you lose as a prosecutor you just don't get justice. If you lose as a defense attorney not only did you not get justice but you also get someone sent to their death. The stakes are just higher.

>>738726050
I have no idea. AAI is a Yamazaki game too so you can't even say it has to do specifically with him.
That being said, I didn't really hate mood matrix or Athena despite how silly the whole thing is. DD's biggest gameplay issue is just the casualization.

>>738713449
he accused an innocent man as ghost. What a fucking retcon.

>>738726283
iirc he was killed while unconscious so he has no idea Von Karma came and shot him. It was either Miles or Yogi and take a guess who he picks.

>>738726536
Also Yogi literally pulled a gun on him and that was the last thing he saw before he ate it.

How is the official translation for AAI2?

How would you make an actually sympathetic culprit? Without having them just confess as soon they are put on the stand, of course.
Hard mode: it's not self-defense
Athena solo mode: it's not an accident either

>>738726990
do it like TGAA2-1 where the victim absolutely had it coming but the culprit still technically committed murder

>>738726987
It's not debeste, but it's perfectly in line with the rest of the series.

>>738726990
>a massive asshole victim
>murder was driven by a tragic misunderstanding
>culprit was a good person who was consumed by hatred or delusion or something

i feel like AA has already done most of these

>>738727305
They did asshole victim but the culprit wasn't that much better usually.
Tragic misunderstanding can't remember actually
And the latter is basically Godot.

>>738726990
I'm thinking misunderstood manslaughter. Have you ever played Danganronpa? I'm thinking 2-5

>>738726990
I kinda wish Ace Attorney had some better unrepentant asshole culprits. Like 2-4

>>738727779
Defendants you mean? Because there are quite a lot of asshole culprits.

guys…
what actually is a turnabout

>>738713449
He kind of fucked everything up actually
>yeah yogi shot me lol I guess even tho I have no proof I mean cmon who else could it have been lol

>>738727978
Basically "reversal". Because Phoenix goes from barely surviving the first day to straight exposing the true culprit on the next day.

>>738727978
It's referring to those moments where Nick pulls some bullshit out of his ass to keep the trial going and eventually win.

>>738726990
It's more of a characterization thing imo. You make the character in question pretty nice, and give them fitting motives that wouldn't really change this fact(unlike Acro's)

>>738726990
It might technically be an accident but I think it's the 4th case in Danganronpa V3 where the culprit got fucked over cuz he was left handed

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>>738718003
its literally this

>>738726536
It must've been a mindfuck to fall unconscious and next thing you know you're in some random asian village and the police is begging to know who shot you

>>738726990
Wasn't Mini rather sympathetic?

>>738731126
More than Acro who wanted to bonk a dum teenager.
She still worked together with Morgan in a plan to frame Maya, and it's a personal revenge thing. I'd file as her "not a huge asshole, but very questionable morals there".

>>738731386
It wasn't personal revenge, it was self preservation.

>>738713204
How bad were the attorneys before Phoenix showed up that all the Persecutor Elite fell for a nervous wreck that has crash outs every 5 minutes.

>>738732561
Somewhat fair, but she could have just claimed that she has no idea why the channelling didn't work and it's not like everyone believes in Kurain stuff.

>>738732596
Winning as defense in AA is basically treated as an exceptional event, so, yeah.

>>738732596
Nick is a fucking freak who has evidence appear before him as if god hand delivered it to him and stronger talk no jutsu than Naruto.

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>>738732596
The best lawyer in town that wasn't Mia was this guy, and maybe Kristoph if he started early

>>738733869
I certainly would like to see he works.
Him and Diego too. Also AAI2 Shields.

>>738733970
I also want to see AAI2 Shields, I'm currently replaying it and he seems very competent when he's not letting Edgeworth do all the work.

>>738732596
Considering how many “undefeated for x years” prosecutors we have seen and even someone like Payne mogs every single rookie…

>>738735165
Here's a reminder that Payne went undefeated for 7 years.
Payne. For SEVEN years straight. This is what we are dealing with here, Phoenix is "Sherlock Holmes II", as he puts it.

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Why did they put the best assistant in a side game?

>>738735903
What do you mean, AJ is a mainline game.

>>738735273
He sat under a waterfall just to train himself to rematch Wright in the manga.

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Do you know how badly I wish I could feed Maya all the burgers and bowls of ramen I could afford? Oh wait, I guess Nick does that, he just can't afford much.

>>738735903
But Ema is in the very first game

>>738736092
lmao.
I remember trying to read some of the manga stuff, but they aren't really as good as in-game cases.

What are some decent IRL trials to watch? Or specific moments that feel like they could fit into an AA episode?

>>738713204
Mood Matrix > Divination Seance > Logic Chess

>>738736798
Real trials don't have exciting turnabout moments because both the prosecution and defense have the exact same information and build their cases weeks in advance. You never get shit where it's like
>oh shit, here's an updated autopsy report that completely turns the case on its head
At most it's some gotcha moment where a statement made in court conflicts with a previous statement in evidence and the guy making the statement looks like an idiot for a bit

>>738737007
I liked Seance because you basically have to argue against the Victim even if it was Fantasy as hell, but Mood Matrix is probably what i consider the worst one.

I really like Grand Grimoire and needing to use MAAAAGICAL "Uhm, ackshully that spell don't work like that." Logic, even if it was a FRAUD in the end.

>>738737396
Or a Rogue Witness letting a genie out of a bottle.

>>738737007
For me it's.

>Psyche-Locks - pretty good way to expand investigations segments and play with their non-linear nature
>Perceive - somehow more filmsy than Mood Matrix... really, just going to badger the witness because they are sweating a little too much? Good thing Klavier doesn't give a fuck
>Logic - should have been in ALL GAMES. You heard me right. Why the fuck is this only in AAI? Makes investigations much more fun, and you could use it in court too anyways
>Deduce - also a cool way to expand investigations, could be in all games easily
>Little Thief - cool as fuck and Kay is based for this alone
>Logic Chess - honestly? Psyche-Locks but worse.
>Mood Matrix - overhated desu, the premise is silly and it's easy enough, but it's not really that offensive and adds some unique charm to DD trials I guess
>Seance - actually pretty good one
>Joint Reasoning(DGS) - I lol'd every time, nice
>Jury(DGS) - don't like it. nope.
>Multi-Witness/Reactions(DGS) - kinda just there, almost forgot to include it

>>738737396
You could still have bullshitting witnesses and heated CEs, I guess.

>>738736798
From what i remember people were drooling over the Johnny-Amber Defamation one from a few years ago (2022?) as being notably spicy. But obviously it ain't murder and the real conflict was basically a PR Battle over public perception. It was still 99% "Boring Stuff".

>>738737506
Mood Matrix is the only mechanic that tried something different by bringing psychology to the table and not just leave it for a breakdown, Divination Seance is its own thing and I love it too but at the end of the day is another way to bring witnesses to the stand. The worst is the bracelet
>hey why you scratching your ass I BET YOU DID IT BECAUSE OF THAT
And somehow something that Edgeworth does nonchalantly is a key element to the plot.

>>738736798
Watch the Afroman trial

>>738715860
uh... anon they're related...

>>738738046
Ah damn, I forgot about the Jury, now that's the worst of them all, and now that you mention it any good prosecutor could have easily fucked up Apollo with his gay bracelet.

>>738714558
I wonder if Shu Takumi regrets killing her off so early, he probably wasn't expecting the series to have so many sequels

>>738726990
When Micham Burns shots loads, they are acidic and one day Micham Burns shoots this massive load that ricochets all sorts of ways. He meant to hit a picture of Rachel Maddow he has in his goycubbie, which he believes will spiritually weaken the evil liberal cunt (this is righteous), but it instead ricochets all crazy and slams Asiid Attack`victim right in the face with a like pound of acid/cum. All Micham was doing was trying to jism off into a figure that would spiritually damage the person. We all get how important it is to jack off and do everything, overtly and covertly, to take down the unrighteous (Rachel Maddow, cunt), so when he mistakenly acid bathes some hot chick whose name was tragically but also conveniently apt for our little story.

>>738739364
That's what makes it hotter.
3-5 was kinda funny for that, it means that in retrospect, 3-1 and 3-4 are about her casually meeting her younger step-sister(who apparently had never met before? it doesn't look like Mia recognizes Dahlia in 3-4, and 3-1 explicitly has Mia say they only met "once") and calling her a cunt.

AA1 is soundtrack mogged hard by its sequels. Don't get why people pretend the original themes are the best even if they are iconic.
https://youtu.be/jRMr8Jv_ZP4?is=U6ICZvKLDq0teJP6

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>>738739745

>>738727658
Seconding this
>>738739625
The jury hurts because it's a combination of formulaic, having people that wouldn't be allowed on the jury in the first place, and being used as a magical "oh good thing this guy was here or Ryu would be fucked" device, In general it feels bad how many bailouts Ryu gets from everything.
Perceive get hurts a lot from how it slows down the game and getting pointed out directly that "As long as the witness doesn't sperg out, nothing happens"
Not that the Magatama itself is perfect mind you with it's logic, see Luke Atmey covering up his psycho lock lie with another lie and it doesn't trigger, but since that isn't pointed out directly by another character, it's not jarring in the moment even if it's still funky.

>>738739886
AA1 is more consistent imo, all the tracks are nice, some better than others but the base quality is high.
JFA is inconsistent, but I was the one who said it actually has the best pursuit in trilogy. And I guess the investigation themes(though Core 2002 is basically evil Matt theme more than anything)
T&T has some kino shit, but also some tracks that are kinda meh. I especially don't like the pursuit compared to the first two. On the other hand, holy Allegro - I came, in all episodes. Truth theme is also something, and the non-trial music is hit-or-miss.
AJ, for all its flaws, actually matches AA1 here. The CE themes are especially good.
AAI and AAI2 are both pretty good
DD and SoJ have some nice tracks, I guess
DGS and DGS2 have some highs, but most aren't my style.

>>738724447
Phoenix Wright.

I feel that the best way to end the series is having a case where Payne finally learn from all his mistakes and becomes a challenging prosecutor for once

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So then Capcom completely and utterly finally ruins Ace Attorney forever. Why this is in the game is so baffling to me that I can not even wrap my mind around it. This is is the moment when Ace Attorney is now damaged totally beyond repair; the lapses in writing and logic begin yo compound and the series is now broken. It can never be undone, it will never go away.

>>738743383
Leaps aside, 5-3 is sovlful you gotta admit, but I feel like you could have done way better in a HS setting.
Personally would have liked more if it was fully between the students and typical HS stuff instead of le dank age of lawl.

>>738726990
Take Alita from 4-2. Make her actually be in love with Wocky instead of a gold digger. Boom, there you go.

>>738743638
Yeah I guess. If Alita shot the nigger doctor because of Wocky she would have been peak "did nothing wrong"

>>738743607
No it is not. It is most non "soulful" case in the franchise. The series spiritually died at this point. There is nothing to praise about it. It is abject garbage

>>738744753
A case about dumb highschooler shenanigans and a literal friendship anime plot salvaged by our girl Athena is kinda sovlful.
Only problem is trying to make it involved with the "Dark Age of Law" plot point. And as you pointed out, case logic is all over the place.

>>738714558
killing an important character would help the series. its been too rare and far between when anyone the player or at least the main characters might actually care about

>Victim was killed between 1 and 3
>There's a camera pointing right at the door where the murder occurred
>Nobody bothered to view the camera footage for the entirety of that period.
>They just looked at the time when ONE GUY admittedly entered, looked like 5 minutes forward & backward, and called it a day
>They never saw the guy walking out of the room in that time frame with a bloody hand, because... they just didn't
>Never bothered to find out who he was, what he did in there, or what he saw, OR WHY HE HAD A WOUNDED HAND
>They just said "that other guy came in & out, so fuck it, he's the killer."
This is why Blackquill hates astronauts.

>>738745297
I just love the fact that the villain went full mask-off on the stand for what felt like 20 minutes, and nobody felt compelled to say "um, yeah, why is this trial even still going on?"

>>738745542
Cases with CCTV are funny like that.
If you are going to write a camera in, you better give a very good explanation as to why the camera somehow would not capture the real dynamics of the murder or obscure them. Could be as simple as a trick related to how the camera works, or somebody intentionally messing with the footage.

wow that 6-4 case was really fucking bad. mean DD and SOJ have been mostly trash so beating a dead horse but wow

>>738745297
you dont understand wriiting, ace attorney, visual novels, mysteries, japan, or really anything at all if you think that case wasnt trash let alone LE HECKIN SOVLFUL XD IM SO HIP AND WITH IT CAUSE I USED LE V INSTEAD OF U XDDDD

opinion disregarded

>>738745984
Soulful doesn't mean well-written

>>738745786
Thing is, there was no explanation. The footage was completely intact & in police custody, and it took an attorney 7 years later saying "roll that beautiful bean footage" for anyone to ever learn there was someone else in that room. Just the dumbest shit ever written.

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There is an Ace Attorney "attraction" at Joypolis in Odaiba, Tokyo. Its really just 3 cases you play like the game, but you get like a little pamplet as your course record to write evidence down or whatever as you walk around to different terminals around the facilityz each being like a different scene to investigate and someone to interrogate. At the end you go to the last terminal for the final court case.

I dont know when it started, but the 3 cases are exclusive there and in the old classic 2D style. Im not gonna pretend I understood all of it, I got about half of it as my gf helped. But the three cases there are better most of what we got in the Apollo trilogy.

They really should translate and release those 3 for download at some point.

AA7 better do something funny and modern like an AI defendant. Would be kino to have a human culprit try to pin it on a LLM.

OF COURSE THERE WAS A MIRROR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RESTAURANT!

>>738746721
3-3 is genuinely an AO-tier shitpost.

wait are there people who pretend 3-3 isnt a great case

>>738746930
You wanna tell the class why you like it?
Personally I think it's okay, but it's flaws bother me too much to put it higher.

If you count the cups of coffee Godot goes through in 3-3, you'll be in for a fun surprise.

>>738746981
Exhibit A: Zero fey family drama

>>738746981
Excellent characters, unique settings, characters and setup. Good in its serious moments, good in its funny moments likr the tigre impersonating phoenix. Evidence, logic, etc all work.

There is nothing wrong with it at all. I guess unless your some reddit fag upset because oh no they showed a gay character being gay

OF COURSE THE VICTIM TOOK THE DEFENDANT'S CAPE AND IT GOT STUCK TO THE RISING BUST.
IT MAKES SENSE.

>>738747076
But that’s the soul of the games

T&T Cases
5 > 3 > 1 > 4 >>>> 2

>>738745346
Killing Phoenix and making it the finale where Athena has to come into her own and Apollo gets to unravel all of the Gramyre shit for real would be the best option at this point but they would never do this

>>738747153
It's mostly the set up that I keeps it from being beyond okay from me.
On paper it's a home run, but when you break it down, the month long time skip causes more suspension of disbelief issues than it solves.
To be fair it's not something that you'd notice at first because the game barely gives it proper attention and it's something that really should've have existed in the first place, but it bugs me too much.

>>738747153
Impersonating others is always the mark of a badly written detective story.

>>738747432
Killing Phoenix would be dumb and just cheap drama
Making him a cool hobo mentor was the correct path forward, but they fumbled it and it's impossible to go back now.

>>738747432
nahh, anyone but phoenix (mc) or maya (mia already died, enough with the feys) really.
killing athena, apollo, simon, or nayuta would at least trim down the shit characters

>>738747489
if a month time skip ruins your immersion of a court trial ive got some news for you about real life
>>738747540
when you just blindly apply rules without context or thought like this you look foolish. it was not part of a mystery. it was a short segment intended partlynfor the plot but mostly comedy.

if you want to talk about detective story sins pull up a chair and lets talk about DD and SoJ

>>738745542
>Victim needed to dispose of a rock, but couldn't smuggle it out. So he just put it in a case that was in the room & left
>Everyone simply said "THE ROCK WAS STOLEN" and never bothered to wonder why the case was heavier
>Then they launched it into space
Fucking astronauts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK-30442RII

I just want to see Mr. Nick and Mystic Maya finally marrying and restoring the Fey bloodline

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>>738747835
Why doesn't Pearls marry Phoenix instead?

>>738747747
It's more about how each of the three locations you visit (the victim's job, the cafe where the murder occuied, and the murderer's office) still house valuable evidence that at the very least in the case of the cafe and the office, should've been scrubbed within that time.
Then you have the silly aspect of
"Yeah Phoenix had no idea someone impersonated him for a whole month and took on a court trial" and "Gumshoe coped and seethed about this for a whole month straight instead of informing Phoenix about this earlier"
Phoenix getting impersonated in the first place follows the rule of funny, so it's fine to just accept without issue, the other stuff follow the rule of drama, so it's more "come on really?"
Honestly it's too unbelievable for me that Gumshoe just does nothing for a month straight while the love of his life is going to have her entire life ruined for me to really rank it where I used to, when I completely forgot there was even a time skip in the first place.

>>738724447
To win a debate?
>Phoenix
He's a fool when it comes to most stuff outside of a courtroom. Even in a courtroom, he loses logically most of the time, he's good at being lucky, finding clues, and taking leaps of logic. He's not even usually in control of the situation emotionally.
>Reigen
A pretty lowgrade conman who struggles to make ends meet. He's the most sure of himself without a doubt, and least likely to give up. He'd be a decent emergency lawyer and probably the hardest witness to crack.
>Saul
Knows conmen and lawyers, and how best to trick both. He'd lose in the courtroom, but usually to his benefit.

My guess is Saul would let Reigen win the debate so he con him for a bigger prize down the road. He'd get into trouble and pin the blame on Reigen who'd fall for it like a sucker. Phoenix would take the case and win, sending Saul to jail , but he'd take a plea bargin of some kind and be back for the next game.

>>738747747
>it was not part of a mystery.
It WAS part of the case and they botched it.

>>738747753
I appreciate the fact that they made the extra effort to tell us that the window opens, meaning he literally could've just thrown it out as far as he could and retrieved it later.

>>738726990
I've been watching Monk and the one that sticks out for this example is when the culprit is the mother of the accused and the murder was spur of the moment when she happened to be in the same car as the man who killed most of her family and village. Just make the victim an evil fuck who no one will miss

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>the korean ripoff has better cast than the original
how did they do it?

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>>738747540
Fuck you.

>>738747895
She wants the best for the Fey family

>>738748438
I played this a few years ago and i was put off how much more grounded and serious it takes itself.

>>738747753
wtf is this real

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>tfw we got to see Maya topless in AA6

>>738748438
I really need to play more indie AA clones.
Especially would like to see fun experimental mechanics or attempts to bring in more courtroom shenanigans(without making it a literal lawyer sim, of course) that AA just doesn't use.

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>>738748438
what about this one?

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>>738748667

>>738748828
Personally this one was my favorite that I played.

>>738748231
yeah im sorry this argument isnt good enough for me to bother addressing

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>>738748828
what can i say?

>>738748259
>no 2+2=3 im telling you
ok bro

>>738714558
>Is
>Was

>>738748231
I assume the time skip is because the higher court trial's date in the game over sequence is always that far out, though you're right that it makes no sense in the context of 3-3.
>The accused will surrender to the court immediately, to be held pending trial at a higher court within a month from today's date.

>>738748441
i mean im the one who disagreed with him and then you post one of the worst cases in the franchise

>>738748997
>Tigre didn't impersonate the victim and it wasn't part of the overall mystery
>just focus of the funny part abouth Phoenix getting trashed by his collegues and forget the rest of the plot

ok bro...you should stop sucking dicks but whatever you say.

>>738748236
>Phoenix
Tries his hardest to study what the others are stating to find flaws in their logic
>Saul
Carefully construct an illusion that's very hard to cracks
>Reigen
Outright lies and stalls for time not even caring if he gets caught lying

>>738749043
Not that anon but now that you point that out, if the case was more about Phoenix untangling the absolute mess that Tigre made in Appeals Court instead of just being a regular case with a strange premise that would've been pretty fun

>>738749043
>a trial...hapening a month later? absurd!
argubaly more realistic than anything else in these games. have you like never watxhed police, bodycam, interrgation shows or videos before? do you know what discovery is? incidents that happened in like 2023 are still awaiting trial to this day
yeah man this is why people talk about not engaging with the fanbase of a game you like or talking online at all. i just cant talk to dumb teenagers.

>>738749052
Fuck YOU.

>>738728089
Yogi was the most likely suspect out of everyone in the elevator, he's obviously not going to accuse his own son. VK had the motive but Gregory was already unconscious before he could ID him as the killer.

>>738749576
I don't think even Greg imagined for a second that Manfred would have straight killed him.

Why are we willing to accept teenage girls channel spiriting dead people, but a "blind" kid dragging a 200 pounds body is too far?

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>>738713204
More like he's the only defence lawyer given any respect. Everyone else takes the piss when it comes to dealing with the defence.

>>738749715
because that isn't what actually ended up happening which makes frustrating the claim of "why is he even being arrested when he could not have literally done the crime?"
I liked one person's idea of having Machi be caught fleeing the scene of the crime with the Guitar that has the cocoon inside of it, and that's why he's arrested because "Alright there's a solid chance this kid is guilty of smuggling, but did he also commit the murder?"
It's a bridge too far for a lot of people that they can't argue what didn't happen, didn't happen, to get him off the hook.

Did Von Karma ever see Edgeworth as his successor? Franziska is kinda just a jobber who assaults everyone for respect whilst Edgeworth actually has fairly reasonable standards and morals.

>>738745984
>LE HECKIN SOVLFUL XD IM SO HIP AND WITH IT CAUSE I USED LE V INSTEAD OF U XDDDD
Go to therapy.

>>738749715
>magix exists so all logic is out the window
liberal detected

>>738750058
Von Karma was just nicer to Edgeworth in the hopes he can fertilize his daughter and continue the bloodline

>>738750123
>i dont understand anything beyond generic teenager memes
Go to school

>>738750058
No, it was all a long term scheme to destroy Gregory's legacy in the end. He wouldn't have framed him for DL-6 if he wanted him as his successor.

>>738750162
Instead he gave her a huge daddy complex and will inevitably breed an idiot child with Gumshoe

>>738750185
This reply didn't even make sense, go to therapy. You have anger issues, get help. Talk to someone professional.

>asinine attorney
what are these exactly?

>>738750290
Goofy silly short extra content.

>>738727978
Have you never heard the phrase turnabout is fair play?

>>738727978
an awkward translation of 逆転
Japs especially love twists and when things get flipped around. The newer games like soj are less well written less subtle about it and shove it in your face more like case 3 "the queen lady wasnt the killer, she was the victim" eow it flipped the whole case om its head!

Thats thr core of 逆転 or "turnabout"

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Maya Fey in jail

>>738750719
as a side note, in japanese Mia does actually refer to "turn your thinking around" or "think outside the box" as "Gyakuten" as in, what the game's are called in japan.
it comes full circle in a way that's sadly missing over here.

>mayoi
>localized as maya
>ape escape 3
>sayaka
>localized as yumi
ive never understood localizing a japanese name as a different japanese name

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It's been a few weeks since I've beaten AA4 and I enjoyed 4-4 a lot more than I expected.
I know some anons felt that the ending was anticlimactic but I felt it was enough.

However, I wish they delved more deeply into the pros and cons of the jurist system instead of presenting it as a clear solution to Japanifornia's justice system.
It's good that Vera Misham wasn't convicted due to reasonable doubt, but what if Kristoph was on trial? Would they have found him guilty or would this afford him the same leeway?
There's also the issue of jury nullification which can be abused for good and bad purposes. There are a number of problems with having a jury of your "peers" decide your fate.

The other thing that annoyed me was the convoluted plot twists just to explain Apollo's bracelet.
It felt clumsily written when it turned out that Apollo was Trucy's sister, and that they're both Lamiroir's children, who only had amnesia to explain why she couldn't remember them.
Maybe the only reason 4-3 exists was to introduce Lamiroir as a character. That would explain why it's such a shitty case.
Would it have been so bad if he was just really good at reading people? Or if it was simply a magic bracelet that somebody gave him, like Phoenix with the magatama?

Speaking of which, magatama > bracelet. The psyche-lock mechanic was way more fun.

I have to go now, I hope this thread is still up when I come back.

>>738750773
lol get fucked

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what are they going to do to her?

>>738751281
>i dont like the new mechanic as much as magatama or psyche locks
>i dont like ass pulls about apollo
>i dont like bad writing
dont worry, it gers much worse in the next 2 games

>>738750773
Does she need to piss in the sink?

>>738751281
4-4 is fine for what it is, it's just not anywhere near what something like 1-4 was and for a new trilogy to feature new character's and a new story, it's just kinda whatever when it's combined with a very low difficulty for a final case.
What you mentioned with Apollo is basically a reoccurring issue with him where he's irrelevant to the greater story until last moment where he was actually connected the entire time because he just doesn't naturally work with any of the story-lines they make up, he has some fairly good moments regardless mind you, but he typically feels like an afterthought, riding the coat tails of other character's and their development, and it's all because he wasn't allowed to be directly involved in the main narrative of his debut game.

>>738751281
>delved more deeply into the pros and cons of the jurist system
You missed the point, there's no point, it was all a ploy to catch Kristoph.

>>738726990
I tried doing that myself, ironically in a case that's a weird mix of 2-3 and 4-3 but actually good(imagine that).

In a nutshell:
>POS victim, a threat to literally everyone involved
>culprit is a cute and nice "ideal japanese girl" type, begins particularly helpful, straight assists the defense team in gaining access to the crime scene
>doesn't even accuse the defendant ever, in fact she says that she's quite sure nobody here could have killed anyone(except herself, but she didn't say that last part out loud)
>motive doesn't even have anything to do with her personally, she was in a relatively more safe position than everyone else

And you should see what even breaks her in the final CE. It's the one action she had to take to stay coherent with her motives, and the defense figures out there's a piece of evidence related to it. Or rather, the fact it's missing and it could be retrieved of the court searched her belongings.
It's deliberate though, the entire thing is written around having the most sympathetic culprit who was unironically getting away with it by being cooperative.

>>738752425
Shh, let him enjoy his 3D AA virginity.

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>>738747895
That would be improper! Pearl couldn't possibly c-cuck Mystic Maya... She might find out.

>>738747895
pearl has to wait
once maya has her first and only child pearl will be avaiable to pump out as many kids as she wants with nick

>>738750238
He framed him because HE LOST. Like, he outright says this at some point. Edgeworth lost a trial, so he was dead to Manfred.

>>738755950
In the anime (which isn't canon granted) I found it amusing that when Edgeworth loses his first trial, Manfred just tell's him "Eh your not me, it's to be expected, those defense attourney's lie and cheat all the time, you'll get em next time."
He reacts a lot more negatively when Edgeworth basically throws 1-3 on the other hand.

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>>738726990
YES, THEY DESERVED TO DIE, AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!

>>738747895
she's already married to me

>>738726990
>>738757163
Acro

>>738718003
there is nothing in her brain. i'm so sad that we never got more edgeworth games, and that she never appeared outside of them.

>>738725636
logic was a great idea. it's like putting inventory items together in a point and click except you didn't have to be an insane person to do it

>>738726990
I would not, death penalty now

>dd sucks
>dude soj is better bro trust me
>case 1, boring as fuck,.case 2 ok, case 3 boring as fuck, case 4 horrible
>dude case 6-5 is goated bro is one of the best in the franchise
>2 hours in of a snorefest of retconning apollos boring as fuck backstory and le father son speblunking
>a civil case over the rights to an orb
im having so much fun you wouldnt believe it guys

>>738765839
Are you the same retard who couldn't understand literally anything that was happening in 6-3 yesterday or was that a different special ed kid

>>738765932
thread died before i could respond to your retarded post but i forgot what you said. i dont generally remember what retards say

>>738755453
Pearly is a good girl, she will allow Maya to get one every year

If they made a new AA game and Capcom just came out and said "yeah we know itll be weird, but were just gonna stop localizing the setting as America and just act like it was always in Japan. In thr long run it just makes more sense"

I dont think anyone would be like noo you cant just change now after calling it America for so long.
Literally no one would object to this

>>738767839
As long as they'd point out what the fuck the name pun jokes are suppose to be in japanese i'd be fine with it.
Unless you mean they do the Inazuma Eleven thing where it takes place in Japan but everyone has an english name in the dub, then that'd be fine too.

>>738767936
i wouldnt change the names existing names, and new names should still be localized because puns wouldnt make sense. but id stop pretending this is all in america and references to eating ramen replaced by hamburgers

kids dont play this. people have internet. people know whats going on

>>738750773
Nyoot again:(

I’ve given up hope of AA7.
Instead, I’m coping for AA1 remake with RE Engine and third person investigation gameplay. And if Capcom wants to be bold, provide the game with two types of localization, the Japanifornia one we’re used to, and a new one where the Japanese setting and names stay intact.

>capitalist pig
>i am not a crook
trannyslator just couldnt resist

>>738768057
But I like Maya eating burgers all the time

>ema gets mad at apollo for calling her setective "im a forensic scientist!
>phoenix and nayuta both call her detective skye
>crickets

We really need an anime that's AA in spirit, but not literally an AA adaption since the current one is kinda eh. Good only for additional character moments like with the Von Karma family

>>738773098
Well yes, Ema likes Phoenix a lot, and Nahyuta too for whatever reason.

>>738770886
>Instead, I’m coping for AA1 remake with RE Engine and third person investigation gameplay
I don't know you but I kind of hate you now

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Where's her AA spinoff, Toei?

>>738748438
I tried this and couldn't get into it.
I want to say it was the translation but at the same time I actually really liked Murders on the Yangtze River which IMO was an even rougher translation so I am not really sure.
Maybe just mood or atmosphere in general wasn't doing it for me?

If there is something incredibly consistent in AA soundtracks, it's the CE themes.
Not a single bad one, only good and gooder ones. How did they do it? At worst you get an Allegro that's not as intense as it should be, but that's about it - and it's not like they all need to be T&T's

>>738751281
>jurist
they're not jurists, they're ignorant swine devoid of rational thoughts, unfit to judge, let alone decide another person's fate
kristoph was right

>>738778147
Honestly? He was.
I'd rather trust a more or less competent judge/group of judges than random people who will just vote based on whether they like you or not. Imagine for a second how the IRL version of AJ/DGS's system would even look like. I'd kms before the trial.

>>738713204
Turnabout Samurai fucking sucks. Does it get better from there?

>>738778419
The next episode is one of the best in the PW trilogy.
And it's not even the best, arguably that's 2-4, another samurai case believe it or not

>>738778281
would at least make sense if the "jurists" were actually jurists

The more time goes on, and the more I do occasional replays/rewatches, the more I think that the first game nailed nearly everything so well.
>brief tutorial case that perfectly established what's the game about, without trying to overreach
>case with much higher stakes and the death of an important character right off the bat, the biggest issue with this one is that White sounds a lot more powerful than he really is and he could have been an endgame villain easily
>case that's basically Edgeworth's character arc in disguise, and also something that gives Maya more character
>the climax episode where we tie all the loose ends and find out who was the main villain and final boss of the game - a very corrupt prosecutor who genuinely runs the trials more than the judge does, intimidating as hell and nearly won multiple times, even after the judge was about to acquit Edgeworth!
>a bonus case that's technically not canon until AJ, for people who just want more of the AA experience, somewhat of a decent concept even if it drags - makes more sense if you consider it a DLC case rather than the final one

>music is all decent to very good
>characters do some over-the-top shit but stay relatively grounded
>great sense of build up towards the main twists, without needing each CE to be its own dramatic reveal
>snappy dialogue that conveys what's meant to convey
>no gimmicks, the trials live and die by their basic "point out the contradiction in the CE" gameplay, each testimony needs to be built around having no clutches like perceive or mood matrix to let you skip the logic

>>738779184
>>end-game villain
white was higher than quercus alba and even epstein-tier. what a waste of a character

>>738779536
>epstein-tier
Accurate lol.
Feels like it would have made a lot of sense to have Von Karma and White in the same case, so they can both be endgame villains even if Von Karma is maybe a more fitting final boss specifically from the PoV of a lawyer.
Edgeworth accused of killing Mia would be something.

>>738748438
a dlc is coming out for this next year

>>738775918
Not the worst thing ever, given our options here.
Could attempt to make AA work in a completely different way, purely for experiment's sake.

>>738779184
I feel White was done badly, because Ghost Mia handing out to Phoenix his list of names as a last resort felt like an asspull.

IMHO the best case in the trilogy is 'Farewell, My turnabout'.

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>>738779184
The first game is still my favourite even after all these years. Von Karma was such an S tier final villain that it almost feels like they blew their load too early as nothing can really top the "Prosecutor without a defeat in his 40 year career", but they still kept throwing undefeated prosecutors at you in later games anyway (Godot was a pretty funny twist on that tho).

It's also underrated how the first game is the only one that's a fully self-contained story, it doesn't need to rely on plot points from past games or set up cliffhanger shit for future games. AA4 was the only other game to be a generally self-contained story, but even that relied a lot on your understanding of Phoenix's character from the prior games.

Also unrelated but thinking of 1-4 again reminded me, I fucking hate how all the later games kept throwing a case file at you as a big mystery hook (IS-7, KG-8, SS-5, I know there are more that I can't remember off the top of my head). They're all clearly trying to echo the DL-6 incident but forget what made that such a good mystery in the first place. In the first game, you CONSTANTLY hear "DL-6" getting brought up time and time again, but Phoenix is like the only major character who has no connection to it so is just as clueless as the player is. Combined with the goated Core 2001 track playing whenever it's brought up you really have no idea what it could actually be, then it's revealed that the name is actually just the filing system the police uses. It's such a good mystery and reveal that the later games keep trying to mimic but it falls flat every time because they think calling some tragic event the "XY-Z incident" is good enough and ignores how AA1 spent the whole game building that mystery up

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Out of the way faggots, best witness coming through.

>>738783363
The only best thing that game has is being the best AA game to put you to sleep.

>>738782975
>Von Karma was such an S tier final villain that it almost feels like they blew their load too early as nothing can really top the "Prosecutor without a defeat in his 40 year career"
Tru, but Dahlia can sit in the same tier.
And specifically because she is an inversion of Von Karma or similar villains. She isn't powerful, she isn't a scheming mastermind, she is even visibly fragile - no one is actually afraid of her, in fact most people are charmed on the spot but she has the raw malice to pull it off.