>this is how smash endskinda funny
>>738740990Steve should have been banned years ago when people realized he has half a dozen super broken techs only he can do. Never mind the fact that the character, even played fairly, is fundamentally OP.It's Bayonetta in Smash 4 all over again, Smashfags are just allergic to banning characters.Fox in Melee is the example of a healthy top tier. He has big strengths and big weaknesses. Bayo and Steve do not have weaknesses.
>>738740990thats a pretty based s tier line up, ngl.
>>738740990Where the hell is Pyra/Mythra?
>>738741773In A tier where they belong
>>738741773Aegis is bad against Steve so they keep getting lowered in the tier list as the metagame gets more centralized.
>>738741508Is it because smashfags are autistic so they won't ban something broken (unless its items or stages lol) because autistic meltdowns will occur?
>>738741973The latter
>>738741508>>738741973Nintendo threatens to shut down tournaments if characters are banned.
I remember Sonic was considered mid/low tier and nerfed from Smash 4 in like the first year or 2. did they even buff him or did it just take a while for people to realize he's still broken?
>>738740990It's time to play a real fighting game
>>738740990It's barely any different than how Brawl and Smash 4 ended, which Ultimate is essentially a rehash of.
>>738740990>SSSteveARYANS won
>>738742012Thisso much shit is because of nintendo threatening to shut down tournaments or shut down the livestream of a tournament>can't have project M tournaments because ninty will sue>can't have quality of life mods like UCF at big tournaments because ninty will sue>can't ban broken-OP DLC characters because ninty will sueit's all so tiresome
>>738742104A little bit of both. Turns out you don't need to be able to shield cancel spindash for it to be a fucked up move, but he did get a few small buffs in patches. Sonic also just happens to excel in the current meta if you're willing to play like a pussy. He can outlame literally anyone even Steve and has otherwise good matchups against most top tiers.
>>738740990>the top 3 characters reward playing like the biggest faggot imaginable and sitting on the other side of the stage and not interacting with the opponent at all>the fact that this is incredibly frustrating and unfun to play against is actually a strength of the characters>every other tourney match has a steve now because he’s just that much better than the rest and players only care about winning
>>738742104people realized you can use his speed to just hit and run and make every match go to timeout
>>738740990Who are the god yoshi players?
>>738742740>>can't ban broken-OP DLC characters because ninty will sueAnd this I agree with. Tell the playerbase to stop being a bunch of lazy fucks and play the game they way it was balanced in the first place; with hazards on. If it doesn't work, then turn the handicap function on for the top 5 characters. Steve's dominance isn't that dominant but the Smash community has done NOTHING over the past several years to balance the game out. Only Super Nova coming up in August is finally trying something different but they're depriving Steves of the ability to choose stages. Not that it'll matter since they'll all go to Pokemon Stadium 2 anyways.
>>738743008>play the game they way it was balanced in the first place; with hazards onIt's impressive you think this would do literally anything but just make Steve even more dominant
>>738742012nothing stops the community from bullying and shaming people who pick steve until he's functionally banned.
>>738740990My main Yoshi is that good?
>>738743145To add, the most fascinating perception casualfags have of competitive smash players is they genuinely believe competitive players literally just don't know how to play around things like items or stage hazards. They think they're just totally blind to these mechanics and suggest turning them on as if it's some kind of handicap.
>japanese tournaments don’t have prize pools because of gambling laws >they ostensibly play just for fun and love of the game >tournaments are still packed with the obnoxious faggot characters who make things unfun for everyone involvedWhy.
>>738743008LMBM wasn't even banning Steve directly, they banned some of his actions iirc and they got an even angrier letter from Nintendoidek wtf this does for Nintendo, they didn't care when Brawl tourneys were banning MK and they're not running any tournaments themselves
>>738741973The majority of smash players are just stupid and don't understand their own game. This is now the 3rd smash game in a row with a blatantly overpowered character that should have been banned.
>>738743321japan just loves lame characters and winning
>>738743321they are honoraburu about playing the game with natural rules
>>738743321bro have you seen nips in online games, ESPECIALLY Nintendo ones? they're the most tryhard, faggiest sweatlords to ever exist only rivaled by the chinese, it's an asian thing apparently
>>738743156American Smash players don't have the culture of Japanese Street Fighter 2 players.They can't just socially ostracize people who pick the obvious broken top tier because some trannoid will call the twitter police and cancel the whole tournament.Remember smash ultimate players are predominantly literal children.
>>738742957Top Ranked;Yoshidora (hasn't been all that active in the past year)Pharaoh (he has guides of cool techs as well)MarkFuiNot highly Ranked but killer Gameplay:Blas (Chilean Yoshi play)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIFa5s8Lvvk&t=694sMeme (Mexican who doesn't go to much)
>>738743156The community has tried to bully a Melee Jigglypuff player for going on a decade now, be still plays that shit
>>738743145Steve on Rainbow Cruise (which was legal in SSBB) would screw him up. Lylat stage is constantly being shouted as one of his worst stages and yet no one wants to take him there. Yoshi's Story, at the least you have a rare chance of being able to hop on a cloud when he tries to ledge trap you. And once again, said it's one of his weaker stages.
>>738743406>LMBM wasn't even banning Steve directly, they banned some of his actions iirc and they got an even angrier letter from NintendoIt was just one of his actions. It was crafting meaning he was a sitting duck once his tools break.
>>738740990Have people finally caught on to the fact that Snake is a cancer, too?
>>738742012What can they sue you for? Your just playing smash with 450 of your closest friends and made a rule of no Steve. Surely Nintendo cant sue you for playing the game your way
>this is how smash endsWrong.What happens if Nintendo stops supporting SSBU online and you can no longer access the servers? The latest game card version of SSBU is 2.0.1 and Nintendo will not print newer game cards with the latest updates on them. This means that Pichu will be the best SSBU character forever since we're stuck with the 2.0.1 offline version in the future
>>738744508>What happens if Nintendo stops supporting SSBU online and you can no longer access the servers?As long as they keep selling Switch 1 games, Smash's online versions will still be supported.They'll also, inevitably, do a Switch 2 version as some kind of release schedule filler.
>>738744162But Hurt is cool to watch so it's okay.https://youtu.be/KZOxBNp1Awg?si=5MJ9-m4pU2St7efz&t=1261
>>738744000How the fuck is Yoshi's Story not legal when it is in Melee even
>>738744341They can't. But tendies are so buck broken they will do whatever daddy Nintendo tells them to.
>>738743467Oh yeah
>>738741508Steve plays so differently from other characters that nobody really could utilize his broken mechanics unless they switched mains. It's expected that it would take a while for people to realize he is broken, especially when a lot of what makes him broken is literal glitches/bugs and not intended mechanics.
this is based actually, fuck smult autists
>>738744341Unless the tournament requires every player to supply their own Switch and game, it would be very easy to sue for copyright infringement, even more so if the tournament makes any kind of revenue whatsoeverThis is especially true if they are adding outside rules such as character bans to the game, as Nintendo could then argue that they're misrepresenting the game to a wide potential audience
>>738740990My hero.
>>738745351and yet they have no problem banning items or 99% of stages... curious.
>>738745874Not the same.
>>738745874Smash has had the ingame options to turn off items and stages since Melee, making that a valid way to play per Nintendo's design
>>738740990who made this list doesn't know how to counter him
>>738740990People still play this?
>>738741508The top 5 characters are all cancer, banning steve would be like banning meta knight in brawl, the next #1 would be just as bad if not worse (sonic is worse to deal with)
>>738740990Same as Smash 4 then. Don't know why Sakurai keeps absolutely fucking these games up at the end of their DLC cycles.
>>738741773they really arent as good as people pretend they are>>738741874everyone is bad against steve
>>738743970Nah we don’t hate him for being embarrassing, making our game look like it’s played by trodding fucking retards who break down and cry on stage over videogames and then cheat on their wife, what a fucking emotional weirdo, also annihilated by a Hindi chad as well.>>738744162This, they don’t know that Steve is protecting them, my character is fucking broken, boxing frame data and fucked up projectiles, up smash is still godlike after the nerf.
>>738741773Unironically too honest for the Ultimate cancer meta
>>738743970That's correlation, not causation. He picks jigglypuff because he's a faggot, and he also gets bullied because he's a faggot. If a normal guy picked jigglypuff they wouldn't get bullied 1% as hard
>>738744809I don't know how to explain just fucking lazy SSBU community is and how awful the Hazard's Off feature has been ultimately for the meta. They have to be forced to do anything different and there's nothing to force people to be more experimental with the rulesets.
>>738747161>>738747642>Ermm actually we aren't whiney babies, and have valid reasons to hate himSure sure
>>738740990Brawl Meta Knight vs Steve. Who wins?
>>738746409Sonic is annoying as fuck but he does have legit bad matchups unlike Steve. Anyone who can throw out big hitboxes that beat spin dash takes away a lot of Sonic's tools.Steve is the only character who has no bad matchups. You can't practice a pocket character to counter him, he just shits on everything if played optimally. Some characters have an easier time against him but no one is genuinely positive.
come back white man
Reminder that the character diversity was 5x better before Steve came out. There were major wins with everything from Fox (mid tier brawler) to Byleth (mid tier swordie) to Mega Man (mid tier zoner)Steve centralized the meta super hard and character mains with really bad matchups against him stopped playing or switched characters.
Reminder that Smash 4 and Ultimate were only 4 years apart, and we're now going on 8 years into Ultimate.
don't care still maining Ganondorf
>>738749459yes and it shows since smash ultimate is so lame content-wise and every character feels the same (a lot of this cancer started with Sm4sh though)
god i love peach
>>738746193you have to buy/unlock characters, so banning DLC characters by not having them is perfectly valid too.
Is he more overpowered than Metaknight was in Brawl?
>>738749274Is there anywhere I can see the champions by character for the major tournaments or something like that?
>>738749857did they ever unban Samsora?
>>738748943they abandoned everything that made rivals 1 unique
>>738748073Steve easily
>>738750319They actually did
>>738749857>get into video games in part through SMB2>favorite character is Peach because she can float>one of the earliest instances of enjoying a game mechanic for its own sake I can remember>Sakurai decides to take Peach in Melee and build almost her entire utility around exploiting this very mechanicIt's been 25 years and floating in Smash still brings me joy. Float cancelling is literally the best mechanic.
>>738747996It's the hazard switches fault unironically. Loading into a totally different ruleset mid tournament to play 2 of the stages was never going to work
>>738750601didn't expect that, that's cool though I guess
>>738750319I think they did but he's not coming back, nor does anyone want him back.
Damn, so Samus must be shit
>>738750859he just appeared at this tournament apparentlyhttps://www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:LVL_UP_EXPO_2026
>>738743406>>738744065No, idiots. "No crafting" was their way of indirectly announcing a Steve ban. They thought Nintendo wouldn't catch on to its real meaning.
Here's the full tier list
>>738750354>they abandoned everything that made rivals 1 shitftfy
Come home.
>>738740990>DK Being B Rank>Not too good >Not too shitAll is balanced in the world.
>>738751371It has rollback now https://github.com/NyxTheShield/RMG-Gekkonet
I'm glad I won't be hearing this annoying fag again. He was so confident in thinking Hurt pulled a grenade to trade with Sonix at LMBM. Retard can't get shit right.
>>738751464Ironically, Nairo is the only commentator I trust
>>738743208good arial control. quirky but effective tools.
>>738750837>It's the hazard switches fault unironically. Loading into a totally different ruleset mid tournament to play 2 of the stages was never going to workA Smash Youtuber parroted this and demonstrated "just how long" it took to switch between rulesets to prove it wasn't feasible. He had already swapped rulesets to a different stage before he could get 10 words into his explanation. We've had waaaaaaaay long pauses of players just deciding what stage to go on. They can decide at the ruleset menu > TOURNAMENT NAME HAZARDS ON> tournament name hazards off
>>738748943Elaborate
>>738751464Waiting for Tech's investigation (literally the only dude to do his due diligence because the community is just that fucking retarded) to give this lad a chance to tell his side of the story. That being said, he's kinda obnoxious so I don't give a shit if the allegations are true.
>>738751312>luigi climbed to s- tierHow does he do it.
>>738752172You've never TOd.
>>738750897Somehow Samus avoids being cancerous
>>738752431He's a worse Kazuya basically. He has a zero to death combo that's not very hard to achieve, he's just not quite as overtuned as Kazuya is.
The things that are banned are banned because they promote degenerate, centralizing gameplay.Go watch that EVO tournamnet where items were on. It was a campy shitshow. Or watch early matches before the unified stage ruleset. The fuck are you gonna do to catch Sonic when he's 50 miles away on Great Cave Offensive or characters that abuse Walk Offs for 0% kills like DK?
>>738740990Ready to apologize?
>>738752554I've never TOed but you all have every excuse under the sun as to why X is "too hard to do" and never commit to anything beyond going to PS2 in the almost 10 years SSBU has been out.
>>738752984>most boring dlc character to playNo. I don't think I will
>>738744809Because of how stages are chosen in smash tournaments (players take turns eliminating them until one remains), more stages means choosing one takes longer. So they'll use any excuse to keep the legal stage count low.
>>738740990Min Min (long reach) and Kazuya (short reach) in the same tier means the game is balanced.
>>738753483Also Ganondorf (very slow) and Little Mac (very fast) in the same tier
>>738751312That's the combined regions tier list. Here's Japan's list (the only opinion that matters):
>Healthiest Meta Character >Easy to play at a beginner level>fun to watch at a high level>makes minigame troons seethKneel.
>>738744341Broadcasting rights.
It's suffering being Little Mac.
>>738753090You've never TOd, your opinion literally doesn't count. You have no concept of how extra wrinkles in the process of starting a match slows things down in a compound fashion. One pro player demonstrating ideal circumstances means less than rat shit in terms of tournament logistics
>>738754482And I'm saying you all are so fucking full of shit and use this excuse to deter ANY kind of novel kind of experimenting on the ruleset for ALMOST A DECADE. Hurry up and get your run flattened by a Steve anvil.
>>738754109>That S tierholy mother of aids
>>738740990>all boring, dogshit charactersThis is why competitive gaming sucks. The coolest characters are NEVER good.
>>738740990Steve is a slow methodical pattern based character and I beat Steve players almost 100% of the time no problem
>>738751312>>738754109why must mewtwo be so shit bros, it's the only one i want to play
>>738754649Dumbass, my tournament is literally a random game every week on top of Smash Bros. I know all about throwing experimentation in a bracket, and what it does to a bracket. And why Smash can't receive any experimentation. Even something as simple as the game needing a reboot to reset the controller detection drags the process down by minutes at a time which can compound into a full hour just on extra setup FASTSmash is THE slowest controller based competitive game by a longshot. A single 7 minute set last as long as most FGC best of 3. And there's 2 more of those to go. Smash locals are painfully slow. You can't do squad strike or hazards not because they aren't fun or wouldnt have merit when 2 good players tried to play them comp but because the UI to implement those is so cumbersome you're talking about another cumulative hour of tournament just spent on the logistics of "what version of Smashville does this local run again?" And backing in and out of menus.If it was a simple toggle on stage select, like it should have been, you would have a point. But it's not, so you're just a clueless retard running his mouth.
>>738753197Hero banjo and terry were the only fun ones.Kazuya was almost fun, but is blatantly broken as fuck.
>>738743418People tried to ban Meta Knight in Brawl, it's just that everyone liked playing as Meta Knight and the guy who used to run Apex didn't want him banned. He's also way less cancerous compared to shit like wobbling Ice Climbers and 2 banana Diddy
I haven't played Smash since a little bit after Terry Bogard released. That is roughly around the time my friend-group fell apart and I decided to become isolated and weird.
Hero would be SS if people could fucking read. That's his only downside, that you have to read quickly. Hero is the thinking man's choice.
>>738754903fat bitch
>>738740990literally the most cancer meta ever. unfun to spectate or play. game is fucking dead lol glad i moved on
>>738740990Scroll up, is Bayonetta in the bullshit and banned tier
>>738755416Hero and Terry, sure. Banjo? Sephiroth, Pyrah/Mythra, and Byleth are all funner.
>>738748943>pay $30 for furry MUGEN!uh... no.
>>738746297>People still play this? Why are they not playing the latest FOTM game?
>>738754109Why does Japan upplay Sora so much?
>>738740990How the hell do Peach/Daisy stay relevant in a meta defined by runaway? Their mobility has always been ass carried by amazing offense and defense, are her normals even close to as good as they are in melee?
>>738754109I find it hilarious that Diddy of all fucking characters is the least cancerous S tier.Either him or G&W
>>738740990happened to smash 4 and brawl as wellSakurai is a retard who doesn't really know what he's doing
>>738751312>>738754109How is that blue bitch still considered B tier? She's not THAT much better than Marth and almost everyone who played her switched to Aegis' or Roy.
>>738755995Even with kameme semi-retired, they still have good Soras since they believe in his combo game I guess.
>>738754109>>738740990Tourist here, how is G&W a top tier character?
Imagine getting sued by Nintendo because your venue is poor and can't afford dlc characters
>>738748239Shulk wins against steve but is too hard to play and you'll get raped by a counterpick anyway
Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Dark Samus, Sephiroth, and Duck Hunt should all have floating like Peach.
>>738756326>godlike OoS option>amazing recovery >u-air is amazing for juggles>tilts and smash attacks are very reliable for killsBasically has everything with a weakness of just being light and easy to kill himself
>>738756326If Luigi is shitter Kazuya then G&W is shittier Steve. Just has a ton of annoying moves that keep you locked down in disadvantageous states. He doesn't straight up build a wall but all his attacks have their ways of keeping you off him.
>>738756461>Shulk winsNo
>>738756495scratch ganondorf and i'm with you. ganondorf only needs like 1.5x damage on all his moves to make him B tier, let all of his moves stay horrible, it'd be more interesting that way
>>738756326Retarded safe moves and once you get in close and boink his shield, he pops his parachute and flies off to fuckin safety and you gotta start the approaching game all over again
>>738755253Damn son that's awesomeLet's see your tournament results I'd like some matchup knowledge
>>738756104>Either him or G&W>G&WLOL no. Steve, Sonic, and G&W are the 3 least interactive characters in the game.Now, if he didn't have his Up-B, that'd be different, but most have no way of dealing with it.
>>738756461NoSteve with all of his techs legal and fully utilitzed is THE most broken Smash character of all time and NO ONE can remotely compete with him. His matchup charts would be like 80/20 at worst.Current Steve with PMLG banned and only some of his weird techs utilized is still the most broken character in Smash history and has 0 losing matchups.
>>738756727His moves are great, he just can't get to his opponent half the time to use them.Giving him more power would make him stupidly OP in online and lower level play but he'd still suck at tournaments because good players still won't let him hit them. Floating helps mix up his movement without just making him faster.
>>738740990My FUARKING HERO solos all those S tier shitters together btw
>>738755873>Pyrah/MythraYeah... we both know who you are.Opinion discarded.
>>738751371why are Lucas and Dark Samus there?
>>738756810He recovers in the same way every time, in the upper part of the screen and sends out a mine cart. You easily jump over the mine cart using your 180z monitor, press down B with Hero and kill him instantly with a giant forward hitbox of random effects.>tournament results100%
>>738757293Also I go out of my way to destroy his crafting table to add psychological pressure
>>738754109Richter is even worse than Ganondorf? How bad is this bad?
>>738752283It's so stupid that a contrarian grifter is still somehow the most thorough source on this stuff
>>738752431>zero to death combo at low %s>stupid kill confirms off of grab at mid %s>spams aerials good in the spam aerials game
>>738752431https://youtu.be/R23esBFcE-8?si=fWRTr1-KJdlMFsuw
>>738741508>He has big strengths and big weaknesses.like little mac lol
>>738755409>ou're talking about another cumulative hour of tournament just spent on the logistics of "what version of Smashville does this local run again?" And backing in and out of menus.https://youtu.be/f0fUEZFdCmY?si=DrwaGkL0S9eA-ZlN&t=571Get a sheet of paper at each setup,> HAZARDS ON> hazards offAnd never mind that you're not even discussing doing a solely hazards on tourney which people don't even do which requires ZERO setup greater than what people already do. Missing the forest for the trees and proving my point. Obviously the practical thing is to try a solely hazards on ruleset and you can't even acknowledge that. I hope you forget to jump after the first anvil hit and get hit by the second hitbox and end up in a disadvantage that leads to your tourney run to come to an end.
>>738756060Good against Steve and also:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-M-xTvj8Sgtrue combo btw
>>738743008I genuinely think people like you should only be allowed to live in small villages without technological support or infrastructure. Not tortured or anything inhumane, but you can't be allowed near modern civilization. You're just fundamentally incompatible with it.
>>738756060Float is that strong of a mechanic
>>738754109It's nice to see Bayo in a respectable spot. I'm glad she wasnt completely nerfed into bottom tier, though it is quite telling that after all her heavy ass nerfs she is still better than most of the cast
>>738757529The Belmonts just do literally nothingThey're slow, can't kill for shit, and they're obstensibly zoners but their moves do very little damage and are slow as fuckGanondorf at least has some decent moves with wide coverage and some kill potential that people can walk into sometimes
>>738740990it's not a smash game without some insane top tier
>>738740990>>738741508>grown men upset because Mario Party (fighting ver) isn't fairbased 'tendo
>>738758025What happened to their holy water?
>>738752554This sounds like a joke, but it's true. Inevitably some player would fuck up by playing the incorrect ruleset because all Smash players are 80 IQ golems, and then you'd have a DQ situation on your hands. Awful stuff.
>>738758176Imagine having to balance this with figuring out which 16 year old boy will be most likely to come back to your Marriot room with you at the end of the day.There's a lot to juggle as a big player in the SSB community.
>>738758048Fox was top tier everyone in the later games feel cheesy
>>738754220Samus is corny as hell
>>738758164Poor man's PK fire that can be grabbed and used by their opponent
>S tier actually stands for Steve, Sonic and Snakebravo kojima
>>738756326>I'd like to order one glass cannon, please. Hold the glass.
>>738752984>Highly requested western pick.>Least Pay2Win DLC character.What did Sakurai mean by this?
>>738741508Didn't they use to ban hero when he came out?
>>738758913Real fans dont need handouts or gimmicks.
>>738752984>a couple millenial (now middle aged) streamers ask for Banjo because they are nostalgiafags>their fanbases of little impressionable kids now start screaming for Banjo 24/7>they finally release Banjo>no one actually caresI hope they learned from that and never add Geno. It will just be the same thing.
>>738757979This is a way colder insult than any generic death threat could ever replicate.
>>738758913He's really boring to play which isn't good in a game with like 80 characters. Sora kind of falls into the same camp but can at least pull off some cool air combos
>>738759105counterpoint:pls become kil
>>738759102Nobody cares because he isn't good moron. The rosterfags were always going to move on from Smash after it stopped being the shiny new toy
>>738759146>Sora is good because he carries you.Yeah, that sounds about right.
>>738755409Well maybe Smash shouldn't run retarded seven minute matches? Five minutes should be plenty.
>>738755409Squad Strike is plenty fun, I don't know what you're talking about
>>738740990Yoshi? Really?
>>738742104Smash's complete lack of in-game tools for analyzing frame data, etc. led to people not realizing that side B has multiple i-frames on release
>>738757818Nah. Little Mac barely has strengths and his weaknesses are much larger due to Ultimate being such an air focused game.You could make a version of Little Mac that was like Melee Fox, but he would have to be buffed to the fucking moon and have broken moves like shine
just play rivals 2 at this point
>>738743208No, he's overrated because the tier list was decided by Japanese players and there are two good Yoshi players in Japan (who win literally nothing, by the way)
>>738754220Samus is an honest zone character.
>>738743321Japs live to play like massive fucking faggots. I lived in Japan for a while and brought my Switch with me, and the change in characters I saw online in Smash was comical. Nothing but lame-ass Wii Fit, Bowser Jr. Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, and Toon Link players. This was before FP2, obviously, otherwise they'd all be playing Steve and Min Min.
>Meleesnoy seethe thread
>>738759871>"Why don't Ultimate players just play Rivals 2? Not enough input delay for them?" - Plup
>>738759842>Be flying space dragon>Have worse air speed than human beings>All mobility options blatantly telegraphed>Can't even carry excellent ground speed into aerial momentum. Become rock as soon as you leave the ground.Life is suffering.
>>738743321>gambling is huge in Japan >YOU CAN'T WIN MONEY FOR TOURNAMENTSWhy are nips so fucking stupid?
>>738759386>that one challenge in Nuts & Bolts where Banjo says "Let your hair down Bottles, this might be the last game you ever appear in" At least he was kind of wrong.
>>738759386Didn't say anything about being good or not, though being boring to play and being difficult to get any results with is kind of a death sentence for a character. Banjo is the kind of character you pick once and awhile in casual free-for-alls before going back to the fun characters
>>738743467The top 4 players in Japan play Steve, Min Min, Snake, and G&W, some of the lamest characters in the game
>>738760095Same reason nips love porn and have absurd censorship laws: The U.S. wrote their legal code after the war, and even though everybody knows the law is stupid, nobody wants to run on the platform of "we are going to get rid of this law."
>>738758913Banjo doesn't benefit from the "make the character play like their original games" philosophy of the DLC fighters because his game is just a platformer so it's like putting Mario in Smash again. 4 Bayo, Min Min, Kazuya and Steve become cracked however.
>>738758948Nobody thought this besides Leffen
>>738744809the chad melee player:>lol guess i got stage spiked on yoshi's pretty funny, can't wait to see this in the weekly clip dump! :DDthe virgin ultimate player:>Yoshi's Story is NOT tournament legal because there's a 3.33% (repeating, of course) chance that you'll hit the ledge at a slightly awkward angle and it might be inconvenient for you, so to compensate we've legalized 3 more stages that are basically just Small Battlefield
>>738748943i never leftokay well i left for a little bit, because i got tired of fighting clairen
>>738760009Sounds like the Japanese know what wins online
>>738756205she's the theoretical upper-middle of the pack fundies character in a game where fundies basically don't matter because every top tier is playing some incredibly gay mini-game. it's denial, at this point. no one who wants to win is picking lucina, you'd be better off playing some gimmicky little faggot like toon link or bowser jr. if you want to win with a lower tier character. even donkey kong is better, so i don't know why he's below her.
It's completely fucking insane the minecraft guy is the most OP character in Smash history and it's not even close.What the fuck happened to Smash? Did the steveposters marry Sakurai's daughter???
>>738740990its a damn shame custom balance can't be used online.a group of autists willing to run it at tourneys could fix the game entirely till the end of time.
>>738757529>slow as fuck>do no damage>do no knockback>have no combos unless their opponent walks into holy waterand most importantly>have to win neutral anywhere from 2-10x more than other characters to take a stockwould you rather play luigi and take a stock off of one neutral win at 0%, or play simon and watch your opponent get to fucking 200% as you win neutral over and over for fucking nothing. ganondorf at least kills people.
>>738760351You say that, but considering the wide variety of moves the two of them have had throughout their series, surely they could have come up with a better gimmick than "Flare Blitz, but only five."They could have done a stance change thing, with Kazooie's talon trot and her solo moves taking precedence. They could have let you cycle different egg ammo instead of just normal forward and grenade backward. They could have even used the split-up concept and let you seperate the two of them and control each of them as half a character, kind of like the Icies. There was a lot of potential that could have been done instead of going for the most bare bones concept.
>>738751312Am I misremembering but weren't Zelda and Ike top tier in this version? I thought this was meant to be their best edition
>>738754220Insufferable to play against on Elite Smash but somehow Yaura is fun as hell to watch
>>738756060It's turnip. People will tell you it's float cancel and shit like that, but it's turnip. Just watch Muteace play against any Steve player; the only reason he wins is because he's willing to camp for 8 minutes straight, and the only reason Peach can camp is because she gets to pull an item if you leave her alone.
>>738760069based plup posteri've been eating good between mang, lucky, and plup all putting the hours in lately
>>738755416You must be fucked in the head to think banjo is more fun to play than pyra/mythra or min min
>>738760678>most OP character in Smash historyThat's still Brawl MK
is the game still campfest or did that change somehow
>>738760678tl;dr>melee comes out>sakurai traumatizes himself because he beats a couple at king of fighters and thinks he hurt their feelings>sees people getting good at melee>decides that he will heroically sacrifice smash bros.'s gameplay so that no one's feelings are ever hurt again>fast forward to 4 DLC / Ultimate>all the characters who play traditional smash have been neutered into nigh-obsolescence>mission accomplished, now no one can hurt anyone's feelings>sakurai / bamco proceeds to design characters who do not actually play smash bros. at all>all the characters who don't abide by the fundamentals of smash bros. just rise to the top of the tier list because they aren't held back by sakurai's obsession with neutering those fundamentals
I only watch Megaman and Jigglypuff matchesIf they aren't in the match, I skip it.
>>738760329>The U.S. wrote their legal code after the warStop repeating this bullshit. The obscenity law predates the occupation by several decades.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Japan#Pornographic_censorship
>>738757529Ganondorf has a good nair and his smash attacks kills early Belmonts have...uh...
>>738740990I remember Sonic wasn't considered that good when I stopped playing. What changed? He can't approach anybody unless you initiate an attack, which is kind of a big deal
>>738760813Zelda is complete fucking garbage. She's offensively bad and only functions because the game has 11 frames of input delay online, making special spam difficult to punish. Ike WAS good, but it was because his nair auto-combo'd into anything and everything. MKLeo won one or two tournaments with him and he was promptly nerfed because his nair was so easy to use that any Timmy online could spam it and win.
>>738760708custom balance just creates new degenerate combos
>>738761040No, nothing has changed. Any set that involves a defensive character has games go anywhere from 6 to 8 minutes, which is obscenely slow. Melee games tend to take 2:30 - 4:00 on average, and Rivals 2 games tend to take a similar time outside of specific MUs that go to 4:30 - 6:00.30+ minute sets are not uncommon, which basically precludes the possibility of Ulitmate ever showing up at non-Smash events: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy7gxcMiS_A
>>738760765It really seems like some characters were added in just because they knew fans would be happy with it even if they did the bare minimum, so they could spend way more time on going crazy on other characters like Kazuya and Steve. It boggles my mind that they made Sora as basic as he is when we had the blueprint for a skill tree/mana system thanks to Hero
I feel as though the balance problems could be greatly improved by the use if handicaps, or other rules mixups.
>>738761201>Sonic>approachThat's the neat thing
>>738757206Mother 3 = Mother 64
>>738761404No one would be able to agree on anything
I'm reading the thread now and it's sad that ultimate turned into this. The constant reminder why Meele was lighting in a bottle
>>738761115>all the characters who don't abide by the fundamentals of smash bros. just rise to the top of the tier list because they aren't held back by sakurai's obsession with neutering those fundamentalsNothing gives me a greater dopamine hit when I'm scrapping as Ryu or Ken and then out of nowhere I'm actually playing SF and I start bodying the shit out of little timmy who thought we were playing Smash
>>738740990I'll admit I stopped following things years ago but I was under the impression something happened and people started thinking Kazuya and Sonic were the actual best and Steve was (very slightly) overrated. I'm guessing I just made period up in my mind?
>>738761710likely cope
>>738755395it's tail time
>>738761710Steve was a slow gradual takeover of the meta that happened over the span of a year. He wasn't one of those characters like Bayo or Kazuya that people knew would be busted as shit just from their reveal trailer alone
>>738760351>>738760765His Neutral B is so pathetic and jokey that it really should had some Ice or Fire Eggs mixed in there. Hell they could had items spawn on stages for more Side Bs and have Red Feathers for super recovery Up B if they wanted to put in the effort in Banjo that they gave Steve.
I thought I would get over Pyra not being the Ice climbers character Sakurai promides, but it still hurts. Gues I'm never getting over it
>>738751312A shame that Mewtwo and Lucas are so bad, I have fun with them.
>>738751312>>738754109>sonic above mariowhat did sakurai mean by this?
>>738758913>Least Pay2Win DLC characterPiranha plant?
>>738762180>Sonicsnoy thinks Smash is canon
>>738762230
>>738762180Sega does what Nintdidnt
>>738762227Plant was free, to be fair.
>>738759513Paradoxically, it would make sets take longer because more of them would go to time.
>>738762180Mario is the basic bitch tutorial character (unironic that WoL makes you play Kirby first)It's the same reason why he has the worst stages in Mario Kart
>>7387622271. Unfinished base roster character that got completed and released. 2. Even if you do count him as a full DLC character, Ptooie and Elastiplant are far more cancerous than anything in Banjo's kit.
>>738740990Wrong pic
>>738754109Some fag on youtube told me Japanese players were better with Greninja than western ones. Shows what he knows (unless pic is fake)
>>738740990Smash ended when the shadow cabal of literal trannies systematically bullied hax$ into committing suicide and then banned mang0 so that a tranny fucker could win all the Melee tournaments
>>738740990sorry for parry blocking
>>738762630Greninja has always been the ultimate potential man ever since Sm4sh. Its never going to happen
>>738754109>Carried to top 3 by one playerMore people should play Min Min.
>>738762630Greninja has the same problem as Sheik and ZSS, no kill power
>>738762962Based af Sakurai picked the hottest chick in the game instead of the cover faggot.
smash bros should be put rest and ninty should do an all-star game for a different genre
>>738762962You Min Min fags are incapable of posting on-model art. Fake faggots.
>>738762962Min Min players need their arms chopped off and force fed to them.
>>738763503God a JRPG Nintendo crossover has so much potential...
>>738756982>Steve with all of his techs legal and fully utilitzed is THE most broken Smash character of all timeBrawl MK can literally stay invisible forever.https://www.ssbwiki.com/Infinite_Dimensional_Cape
>>738763668She's got a huge ass, and a reasonable bust under her vest. Nothing off-model about it.
>>738740990simply let the players adapt to the top tier meta lol
Crazy how steve has been nonstop causing seethe since his reveal, stevefags won
>>738763884>and a reasonable bust under her vestHeadcanon. That's just protective gear.
>>738763971I miss the weird steve that people posted before the game came out
>>738755395float meme
>>738762962If Min Min wasn't so cancerous to play against I'd forget Arms was a thing.
>caring about competitive smashcouldnt be me
>>738764248Ahh, but she is, and now you're stuck with her forever.
>>738751312How does Olimar stay so high? Managing pikmin seems gigabrained compared to top tier's bullshit.
>>738743321>>japanese tournaments don’t have prize pools because of gambling laws >>they ostensibly play just for fun and love of the game based japs. that's how it should be
>>738755940The older games are better and have less input lag
>>738756727I can't believe they didn't even give him Tough Guy at the absolute very least.
>>738740990its funny how melee players never banned fox even though he's SSS tier. but they still whine if bayo or steve aren't banned. remember some retarded melee pikachu main saying final destination should be banned because its too hard for his character.
>>738751326Defense and stalling in a fighting game
>>738765576I wouldn't call Melee Fox overpowered. Really powerful sure, but there's a pretty noticeable difference between him and Bayo and Steve.
>>738757206Don't be racist
>>738752984Remix/REX movesets are better
>>738765576melee fox actually requires skill to optimize
>>738741508DLC should never be allowed in competitive games.
>>738765576Mostly because:>Fox is actually pretty hard to play perfectly. You can very easily get raped quickly in a set if you are slacking because you can be combo'd easily>Since you get combo'd easily, most people enjoy playing against him to some degreeMost top tiers in other, slower Smash games have neither of those. They are about as easy to play as everyone other character only they are just leagues better, with no real interesting downsides.
>>738752984>>738762771>>738740990Banjo won, Steve lost
>>738746409meta knight was no where nearly as op as steve
>>738740990Until Switch 2 Smash cames.
>>738751312Joker hasn't won a super major in 3 years yet zoomies still think he is as bad Steve. Unironically mind broken.
>>738766151>Banjo wonthe most boring character award
>>738744508
>>738740990Where are my bros bowser, mythra and Mario in this tier list?
>>738766235Brawl Meta Knight was a nonstop rape train. Steve can set up his win condition for free but he's not stronger than Meta. Remove Steve's ability to place blocks and he becomes a lot more balanced.
>>738766573>the most honest character awardftfy
>>738766783This!
>>738762962Smashtuber propaganda and pseudo game design babble could never convince me to hate her, she's not all that common in competitive and even rarer online, there's character just as or even more annoying with far more players
I hate that Steve is in Ultimate, not because he's "top tier"(tranny term", not because of "Grotesque Steve" but because his game has tranny messages in it. Tranny shit does not belong in Smash Bros.
>>738766748>bowserDog shit heavy, by which I mean he's actually balanced as a character. He lacks his absurd pivot grab and uthrow uair combo that effectively made him semi-viable in 4, and in exchange he got side special, which can be jumped into to cancel some its startup. However, this is comparatively worthless, so he's just another big body to be bullied.>AegisPlays the game better than most characters, but playing the game is inherently flawed.>MarioBrainless retard character entirely carried by uair.
>>738762962>>Carried to top 3 by one playerThere's been quite a few top min min players over the years. It's just that they are all in Japan. Protobanham was the only one who really traveled and even back then he terrorized the NA scene. >>738766751Steve's entire gameplan falls apart if he cannot place blocks. He needs them to farm otherwise he just gets pressured. Look at some of the spargo vs Steve sets. It's looney toons shit where Steve basically just runs around doing nothing since he never has any resources.
>>738740990imagine going back in time and showing this to /v/ during the stinky steve days
>>738765576Fox is bullshit and is made even more bullshit by controller mods, but the fact he is combo food and has a fairly exploitable recovery makes it so he isn't some end all be all dominant character. His disadvantage can be well exploited by nearly the entire cast, especially the other top 8. It's really telling that Melee Fox and 64 Pika are the most relatively 'balanced' top tiers in the franchise and then Sakurai went scorched earth on compfaggotry which resulted in every following game having cancerous top tiers that defined their game's meta.
>>738748943it's alright
>>738757206the same reason there's a persona 5 stage, the devs strayed from the premise
>>738755096>The coolest characters are NEVER good.the ONLY cool characters in melee are ALL top tier except for mew2. that's the real reason people still play that game.
>>738769734mario is kewl
>>738769734every character in melee is cool except marth, who is a little shit
>>738769779mario isnt cool in melee>>738769843marth is cool when someone like asidyx plays him. jigglypuff isnt cool either btw
>>738769989mario is kewl in melee
>>738769989>mario isnt cool in meleehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmwVwJ2j-gE
>>738759102>streamersWay to out yourself newfag
>>738760986>cancer spam fsmash or cancer goonerLOL! YOURE PATHETIC!>>738765791I dont care for rex desu.
>>738760762T3Dom was pulling off combos and getting early kills. He'd be higher in the Tier list if he was still active.
I hated this special every since the day I saw it on Smash Dojo.
>>738772326no fucking way youre trying to convince me mario is cool with a sozin video xD
>>738765091He can deal 60% of damage in a single combo, comfortable KO options, good matchup against Steve, and most importantly he has good representation via Shuton, Dabuz, and that fat fuck Candle. The latter despite attempting to troon out, has some sick tech in using Double Purple pikmin to break shields with the Down Smash.
>>738772414lmaooooooooooo
>>738772442Me too kid. Me too
>>738751312>>738754109>Mewtwo, canonically one of the strongest Pokémon ever>literally the worst out of any Pokémon, behind even PICHU or all things>one of the worst characters in general tooHow? Wasn't he good in Melee? I never managed to unlock him when I was young.
>>738774670>How? Wasn't he good in Melee?Eh, no? He was great in Smash 4, but that's about it.
>>738751464Always hated (((l4st))) since day 1, feels good to be vindicatedThey also cancelled that annoying brit comms guy so nature is healing at least
>>738740990>character is obviously fucking busted>annoying to fight in every regard>people who use the character are obviously carried like hellits the fucking Bayonetta smash four situation again and its the TO's fault for not banning mineshit from the board altogether.
Characters that don't go into freefall after using up b are so privileged. It's no coincidence that ever character in S+ tier that isn't Steve has this privilege.It would be nice if every character could do shit like this:https://youtu.be/miJWtF2Fr9I?si=tmp4dcCTRf_WnUZn&t=451https://youtu.be/n7lJsjDVWnc?si=hQRw43BlBUb1pbrJ&t=597https://youtu.be/-G7SyKS2ERA?si=VxXMzfKGaFjjzJ4N&t=948https://youtu.be/zT-YiCcP1DA?si=ipzonY5iVGsA33Yj&t=108
>>738772442>play against online mario>he charges fludd up after getting a ko>never ever ever does anything remotely useful with it>sometimes doesn't even use it at allMany such cases!
>>738772442F.L.U.D.D. should be an item
>>738775763Rivals 2 does this right. every character has some sort of secondary recovery resource that leaves them actionable if they get to the wall and wall jump, but no one has the absurd privilege that characters like ROB and Sonic have where you're just unconditionably actionable after up B. the closest equivalent is Ranno being able to jump cancel his up special dive kick past a certain point, or Galvan's up special spawning a platform is he's empowered, but neither is really comparable to>lol i can just do whatever after up Blike Sonic / Mega Man
>>738776105>every character has some sort of secondary recovery resource
>>738776142filtered
>>738776105I think I prefer the simpler approach of just making separate grounded and aerial up specials like what Min Min has with her ARMS Jump and ARM Hook. This way you can add a versatile movement option without making recoveries overpowered.
>>738776275? Post elo
>>738776346i mean, recoveries being overpowered is a whole 'nother can of worms. i feel like the logical conclusion of Ultimate's recovery design is every character just holding their double jump and recovering from the bottom of the blast zone, like Sonic, G&W, and Luigi.>>738776367i absolutely bricked my elo by playing slade but i was 1350 last ranked season. not truly good, but good enough. Rivals 2 edgeguarding is some of the most fun i've had in any platform fighter.
>>738775482you can't ban steve
>>738776480I think if you enjoy rivals 2 edgeguarding you would enjoy literally anything on the planet
>>738747161hbox cheated on his wife? nigga looks like a troll
>>738751312don't care, still playing simon
>>738776809godspeed
>>738751312don't care still playing Banjo
>>738741773Rated properly below S. Exploitable recovery + shit grab game.
>>738740990>yoshi in top 10delusional
>>738760090Almost as if that is how he is in super metroid...
just like it began: dogshit overtuned characters doing privileged shit making the game look like a jokethere never once was a moment where this game was finenot a single periodivusaur, pichu, half the top tiers that were there from the beginningI have zero hopes for the next game. all they need to show me is parry still exists and there you go it's worthless mashy garbage doomed because it needs hecking speed and hecking combos t. people who never could understand smash
>>738776614This, except Ultimate in general:- Horrible native input delay; most other games feel more responsive online than Ult does offline- Borderline dysfunctional online netcode- Worst meta in the series- The developers actively hate you
>>738780619You could combo people the fuck out, since 64. What are you talking about? Parrying almost does nothing against top tiers, because their aerials, jabs and grabs come out so fast that it usually never matters unless it’s S-tier vs -A-tier.But again, what a weird quirk in this game to complain about, when perfect shields were a thing in Melee, and atleast parry attempts to give advantage state on paper.All the other waffling isn’t even mutually exclusive to Smash, especially privileged or gimmick heavy archetypes.
>>738743008This is correct. Competifags playing fanfiction metagames can enjoy themselves but calling it "Smash" or "Pokemon" or whatever else at that point is insincere, it's autistic group masturbation. In real competitive games that are made to be competitive (MOBAs, CS, etc.) the players adapt to the game.If the game is fundamentally incompatible with being played competitively then it's the game devs fault to fix it (if they care about that, they don't for smash because it's a party game). If they don't want then the players don't have the right to make "official" smash tournaments that aren't smash. Maybe they should play something else.
>>738765576>fox even though he's SSS tierConfirmed never playing Melee above lower-mid level + just parroting what you hear online because you are a literal npc with no opinions.Fox is easily S-tier with Marth, Falco, and Puff.But you can combo Fox. Your character most likely has throw confirms on Fox. You can ledgehog against Fox(this is fucking huge and one of the big reasons why future Smash games have balance problems). And you can generally edgeguard against Fox.If you want to be good with Fox(like actually good) you gotta fucking grind and grind and grind and have high af ipm.That is the MASSIVE difference.Its fun to combo Fox. How about MK, Bayo, or Steve? Is it even fun to play against them? MK just jumps around. Bayo one-touches you. Steve camps you to death and throws so many hitboxes out it makes Melee Sheik platform camping look like the nicest player in the world.
>>738740990haven't played past 4, why are rob and yoshi in s tier?
>>738776614lol
>>738782437>yoshioverrated>ROBjust fucking broken and has everything and ultimate character could want except for a better out-of-shield option
>>738783007What about G&W?
>>738783487it's been explainedbest OoS in the gamecan spam aerialscan spam smash attacks safelyledgetraps for free
>>738740990Yes, this seems about right. Smash "ends" with fighting game autists making tier lists.
>>738783601?
Why are we having nonstop threads about Ultimate's tier list these past few days? And why does nobody acknowledge we've already had these threads and we are just repeating the same points again and again? Are these threads just bots?
>>738786048cuz it updated like 3 days ago
>>738775482Nintendo shuts you down if you ban any characters
>>7387433214chan has no money involved when posting yet people still make it insufferable for everyone.
The last SSB game I played was Btawl, is Steve anywhere near as cancerous in Ult as MK was in Brawl?
>>738743273No most people just think competitive fags are autistic retards who want to strip all the fun out of the game and turn it into chess.In trying to control the game and remove all randomness from it they get silly results like this.Steve is not broken or Over Powered. Steve is only broken in the sterile environment of competitive. If you watch steve players on regular maps with items turned on they go down several tiers because their strengths no longer matter. Steve is very slow and his camping ability suddenly becomes a lot less viable when you can punish him with map and item control.
>>738752781Didnt go far enough.Heres what tournament rules should be>random characters only>random stage only>items on>final smash on>200hp stamina with 3 stock
>>738787968Steve is even more busted in casual matches. It's fun as hell breaking the game with him by building stair ways to heaven on moving stages like rainbow cruise, or getting nonstop iron on metal stages. Steve is just always playing his own game
>>738740990Smash is really fun causally to bad the people it attracts are the biggest subhumans on earth.
>>738788620Forgot to add>minimum three players per match>>738788961More randomness and items on means that whatever he does isn't an immediate death sentence.A big problem with steve is that because no one played him when they were still patching the game he wasnt flagged as a problem until later when it was too late. He probably does need adjustments to his character namely fixing glitches and exploits but since that aint happening. The next best thing is random character selection for tournaments.People need to prove they can play the game in its entirety instead of autistically specializing in one character.
>>738740990I really wish Sonic had a moveset better representative of his games, having 2 spindashes is gay
>>738789963Indeed. I still enjoy playing it 8 years later and have been enjoying it since it came out on the 64. Always hated the competitive scene. Used to play brawl in college and the best times were always on casual mode. It was the tryhards who insisted on tourny rules that always had the most boring one sided games where everyone picked metaknight and only the sweatiest autist triumphed. People quickly stopped going to competitive sessions but people never stopped coming to the casual matches.
>>738790410>People quickly stopped going to competitive sessions but people never stopped coming to the casual matchesAll smash games are really fun and playing to win is also fun but at the end of the day its a party game not an actual competitive fighting game and honestly thats what makes it great.
>>738740990And yet still more balanced than any sf tkken or mk. What do you traditional fighting game fags say to that?
>>738740990The ability of being able to BUILD will always triumph any other play styles no matter what game you are playing.
>>738780442i don't remember steve being able to place blocks midair in his actual minecraft game, you retard
>>738757828Hazards on as the default would push Pokemon Stadium 2 and Kalos out of the pool without worthy equivalents. Again, you've never TOd, your opinion isn't worth rat shit
>>738772326mario is very stylish
>>738776142For Rivals, I accept it (as a viewer, never played the game) because they have edgehogging. But Edgehogging as a mechanic sucks. Ultimate has a best offstage game due to adequate recoveries across the board on top of magnet hands, but mitigated by ledgetrumping and recoveries being more exploitable than people realize.
>>738794690And we'll go to Pokemon Stadium to compensate and say goodbye to Kalos as TOs won't greenlight Northern Cave either due to its background being too heavy. That is okay. You have the weakest arguments imaginable. What are you trying to argue here?
>>738795636PS1 is ass because it's platforms are too low for Ult and you gotta have a Kalos equivalent where it's hard to kill people for counterpicks. You cannot get rid of PS2 and Kalos and still have players want to come to your tournament. Actual good stages to lobby for would be Yoshi's Story or Lylat because they work in the current framework and work as much needed Steve counterpicks (Cloud blocks and incredibly slow mining). Your arguments aren't that though, they're barely above "hurrrr why isn't TEMPLE legal it's kino!!"Again, you haven't TOd, you're a retard with no idea what you're talking about.
>>738796304>PS1 is ass because it's platforms are too low for Ulthttps://www.tournameta.com/stage-comparison/It's inbetween Battlefield and PS2. How is it too low for Ultimate?I've never TOed, I'm a retard who doesn't know what he's talking about and yet you STILL can't refute my points! You have to refer to non-sequitor fallacies to compare my points to "just above demanding Temple be legal". You can't admit that you and TOs are literally part of the problem in Steve's dominance with their reluctance to try ANYTHING. You contribute with racing to dismiss any criticism with appeal to authority "you never TOed before so shut up". Meanwhile SSBU is about to turn 8 years old and the ruleset has not changed AT ALL and the most TOs have ever done before Supernova to balance Steve was to try and ban him. Fuck off.
>>738797331Im literally telling you Im actively trying to get the scene to adopt 2 Steve counterpick stages. You're sitting here, 8 fucking years out of date on information, rubbing two sticks together and asking the who went when where why of 8 years settled information and pretending like you're somehow having profound revelations no one else considered, when in reality your are just retreading ground we covered 8 fucking years ago.PS1 WAS legal, it was changed because hazardless PS1 is bad, and hazardless PS2 is better. It's neutral enough that barely anyone doesn't gentlemen to it for round 1, and 90% of the tournament gentlemanning in round 1 saves hours of time. It's a load bearing stage at this point, you can't pull it out of the lineup without your tournament also dying to lack of attendance >B-B-But Doesn't matter what comes out of your mouth next. Your words are worth less than a dog's barks when you speak on things you know nothing about
>>738797891>Im literally telling you Im actively trying to get the scene to adopt 2 Steve counterpick stages.Now you are. Your previous contribution to the discussion is bringing how much of a retard I am >PS1 WAS legal, it was changed because hazardless PS1 is bad, and hazardless PS2 is better.If I'm talking about PS1 in any capacity it would be hazards On.Alright anon, since you're trying to push the meta forward with Lylat and Yoshi's Story, how may we help you out?
>>738743156This doesnt work on smash players because they all were bullied growing up so theyre accustomed to it. They just think its normal behavior.
>>738787404No
>>738787404Worse, instead of instant ladder combos you get stalled for a minute between each stock and if you try to approach you are placed into the Rube Goldberg of doom. At least Snake has to combo into / out of projectiles, Steve just doesn’t engage until he does his gimmick and at that point they are killing you at 50% off the side. It’s just Sonic circlecamping with an actual win condition that is just super unfun to play against.
>>738741508Nintendo fans ansolutely refuse to ban almost anything, and when they do ban things, part of the community has a shitfit over it.You still see people bitching about items in Smash being banned, or people who bitch about Smogon banning Evasion.The worst part is that despite those people playing at the most casual level possible, the autistic people in charge still listen to them for some reason, and make genuinely retarded decisions. Like how when Pokemon Champions dropped, Smogon for some god forsaken reason, decided to have Champions OU start out without Evasion or Moody clause, Mega Gengar being unbanned, and Bright Powder/Kings Rock being unbanned.
>>738799323>Mega Gengar unbannedThank God I stopped playing Showdown and the like because I don’t think I could handle my favorite mon being turned into a braindead meta staple, spinblocking speedy mix attacker isn’t good enough, apparently, it needs MORE lmfao.
>>738798865>Your previous contribution to the discussion is bringing how much of a retard I amYou're not worth much more than that, honestly>If I'm talking about PS1 in any capacity it would be hazards On. Case in fucking point. It's been 8 years and the issue is settled, there will be no stage hazard toggle so there will not be stage hazard versions of stages for all of the previously mentioned reasons that doesn't work for the community. You're talking in circles about a conversation that was settled 8 years ago. Would I prefer stage hazards? yeah of course, but without a toggle to quick switch its a nonstarterIf you actually go to a local (doubt) you can start bringing it up to people there and trying to build a support base for the idea. Realistically though, one whole region would need to be on board and make it their unified standard and then it could catch on from there. They've done something recently where Steve isn't allowed stage strikes anymore, but I don't feel like it does a ton without more overtly bad stages for Steve in the pool. Yoshis story will give him a bunch of cloud bricks which are uselessly weak and slow down mining of better materials, and Lylat is all iron so it takes forever to mine each new block and makes it easy to agress earlier on Steve.>Why does a whole region need to be on boardPolitics sadly. If you fuck with things too much good players who have a chance to win prize money get spooked and won't come out because they don't want to lose money to something that they don't deal with at other locals. Once top players dip out, it creates a population drain affect because the mid level players want experience against the good players, and new and bad players want experience against mid level players. Even then, you might just end up with a larger scale version of the issue, with top top level players avoiding the region as a result of the change>Just ban himNintendo are gay and cease and desisted tournaments that did
>>738799627Mega Gengar was rebanned alongside all those things. But it was like only a few days.I have no fucking clue why they decided to let all that shit roam free when literally everyone is able to recognize it was still broken/uncompetitive.
>>738799898>Case in fucking point. It's been 8 years and the issue is settled, there will be no stage hazard toggle so there will not be stage hazard versions of stages for all of the previously mentioned reasons that doesn't work for the community. You're talking in circles about a conversation that was settled 8 years ago. Would I prefer stage hazards? yeah of course, but without a toggle to quick switch its a nonstarterhttps://youtu.be/9f6uzByXwwI?si=PNXC1FPG42ipk1Yz&t=1017
>>738800630>But it was like only a few days.It should have been 0. Nothing about Shadow Tag has changed, nor has anything about evasion changed. There's no reason to even attempt it, because it's the same result every time.
>>738800893>We would need to pick characters before stages when the UI of the game quite literally doesn't allow for thatI'm gonna say it again anonYou've never TOd
>>738800893>It's like he was looking at walking garbage
>>738754109>incin above zelda>INCIN ABOVE MARTH>INCIN ABOVE RICHTERYou fucking whatThey fucking wall you so fucking hard its not even funny
>>738740990Any Min Min enjoyers here?
>>738742396A Fighting Game for grown Men
>>738745534Heroine***
>>738803274They only perform better over online with that baked in 8 frames of delay, especially Zelda who heavily relies on it making her teleport and knight spam safer. Incineroar is higher because of Skyjay who's caused a lot of upsets with him
>>738748073Brawl Meta Knight relies on Bad Physics and Tripping while Steve relies on Camping and Crafting. Meta Knight wins because he can infinite dimensional cape Steve and leave him in purgatory, even during a Sudden Death Steve will get bombed.
>>738750897She looked her best in Brawl, screw the shitty made up rocket heels.
>>738751371I am home, in REX.
How is Samus these days? I only played as her on N64.
>>738803971>Nu 13 in SmashThat sounds horrific.
>>738740990Imagine sweatlording over a Nintendo babygame
>>738804097its fun
>>738799323Smash bros and 6v6 Smogon Pokemon have a commonality that they’re not meant to be competitive games, and banning characters and strategies “because they’re annoying” is always a really slick slippery slope; Smogon is a prime example of this
>>738752984There’s nothing to apologize for, he’s an S-Tier in the Animation and Appearance department while Steve is an F there.
>>738804258Shooters and RTS have lots of side stuff that doesn't make it into tournament settings. Plucking out a specific tournament rulesets from the games mechanic and content offerings is fairly standard. Really, fighting games not needing to do that basically at all are the exception
>>738804258Smogon leaves most everything up to a vote. The playerbase chooses what they want to deal with.
>>738804797ASSFAGGOTS too, but what those share with fighting games is that there is literally nothing to do but play the game as-is.
>>738804918That's literally not true at all. RTS tournaments don't have a random set of forest nothing mid tourney, AOE2 has wonders disabled entirely and I FPS tournaments don't have a random casual map or ski map during a set, it won't just flip to big team battle halfway through
>>738804846If they don’t want to do something they just refuse to offer it as an option lol I spend enough time on /vp/ to know the stupid shit they doIt’s always better to just play the game as is and if it sucks it sucks
>>738744508Japanese are just slant eyed jews
Unpopular Opinions about each Smash Game?>64It’s honestly crazy to me how Nintendo initially had no faith that Smash 64 would take off and become as successful as it did, the game had a low budget and was almost exclusive to Japan with minimal advertising, but strong sales led to a global release this game deserves credit for starting it.>MeleeHonestly Items in Smash should get nerfed back to Melee levels so they're fun again. They keep buffing items every game and there's way too many that just instakill or are obnoxious to deal with. Yeah you could argue the Fan is just as bad but that’s just one item. There’s still shit like the Dragoon.>BrawlBrawl has the most interesting “considered characters” that honestly felt like they should’ve been in by now. Especially Dixie Kong. At least Krystal became an assist trophy so that shows she was on Sakurai’s mind. Toon Zelda/Tetra intrigues me the most. Plusle and Minun was the only time Gen 3 was even considered.>Smash 4I wonder what people consider the big stand out feature of this game? Custom Moves or 8 Player Smash? Aside from the obvious Smash Run, I would say Custom Moves since they are featured on both versions. Only thing annoying was unlocking them since you can get duplicates.>Ultimate The Japanese “Special” subtitle is so much better than “Ultimate”. I feel people gas up this game way too much not just for the roster or because it’s still the most recent game but because of its subtitle. I think Super Smash Bros Reunion would’ve sounded better because of the whole marketing gimmick of “Everyone is Here.”
>>738805098Do you not know what ASSFAGGOTS are?
>>738740990press S to spit on grave
>>738805112>I spend enough time on /vp/ to know the stupid shit they doLike what? Not making nothing changes to Tera?>It’s always better to just play the game as is and if it sucks it sucksNah.
>>738805213>Like what?Adamantly refuse to suspect test Toxapex/Clefable in early Gen 8 because “the DLC will be out soon”, then it’s still good in the DLC “but the next DLC will be out soon” because the moderators don’t want to ban them.Then recently they dropped Darkrai to OU and decided to ban sleep outright as a mechanic rather than just move it back up because people were using hypnosis
>>738805359Gen 9 introduced so many ridiculous sleep setters that it simply wasn't worth putting up with as a whole anymore. You'd just lose the entire game based on a rigged coinflip.
>>738751371>Dark SamusNope.Might as well add Goku and Tailor Swift at that point.
>>738748943I've got money to splurge this month, convince me
>>738740990Steve actually analvored tranjo huh
>>738751131It still baffles me how meleefags have an aneurysm trying to validate ledge hogging as if it was a good thing and not made better in newer games were there's actually ways to play around it and make it an actual contest rather than a flat out "no"
>>738805934Ledge hogging is good because it makes recovery weaker.
>>738748943>four months since workshop beta started>last time a character got uploaded was in early AprilThey're not even doing Smash ports anymore and we only got a few of them to begin with, is it over?Also NERF CLAIREN>s-she just got nerfed last pa—NERF HER AGAINNERF HER RUN SPEED
>>738806029Weaker recovery is bad because it circumcises offstage play
>>738806234Good.
>>738804379Banjo lost.Steve won.Get over it.
>>738743406I was playing spic plus the other day and the guy challenging me unironiically picked Rugal
>>738805934>>738806234For a long time, I didn’t like ledge hogging, but I came around. It makes edge guarding so much stronger, leading to faster, more exciting games. It also makes every attempt to get back a gamble. Do you risk going for the ledge when you could just die? Or do you go straight onto the stage and probably take a punish. The only problem is ledge stalling infinitely. Rivals of Aether solved the problem by just giving you limited invincibility on ledge regrabs. After, I think, 2 or 3, you become vulnerable and can just get punished for it.
>>738757206I imagine it's just because they're clones and easy to include. Lucas probably should have been Ninten though.
>>738806234but it literally doesn't, off-stage play still exists. you can just also get ledgegrabbed so it makes you value being off-stage and view being off-stage as a disadvantage (this is normal)
Have any of you tried playing SSQM? I'd recommend it to any of you that want to play a faster paced and less campy version of Ultimate without modding.https://youtu.be/q-qzZYjyPuo?si=WeORzueoi7-qw7_K&t=1065
>>738805508It was just iron valiant lol
>>738801260would you say it's impossible to run a Hazards on ruleset?
>>738805754If you like play fighters, you’ll probably like it. It’s a lot like PM. Well balanced, interesting gimmicks on all the characters, doesn’t absolutely destroy your hands. Worst thing about it is the fanbase, but at least you know when you win an online match there’s a good chance you made a furry or a tranny or a tranny furry upset.
>>738807207I like heavies with big hits, how fucked am I?
>>738807194Like, in a platform fighter overall? No it'd be very doableIn Smash Ultimate, 8 years in? Probably impossible
Chicken Jockey smashes the competition.
>>738806606>The only problem is ledge stalling infinitely.Smash 4 did that, but it overcorrected by also letting you grab the ledge no matter what.>>738806994H-Lilligant was pretty popular at the time, too.
>>738807362No exaggeration, about a third of the roster is heavies or almost-heavies>Kragg>Loxodont>Etalus>Galvan>La Reina (doesn't hit that hard but has the best combos of the heavies thanks to her twenty command grabs)Galvan and Loxodont are the most stereotypical "Smash heavy" characters of the bunch but they all hit hard
>>738807362Oh, you’re in luck. The lead dev recognizes that being a big heavy fuck is an inherent weakness and balances around that. The heavies are amazing. Kragg a giant beetle is my favorite heavy in any platform fighter. There’s also a huge polar bear and an elephant with a giant glaive and an ant Mexican wrestler. You’re gonna love Kragg, though.
>>738807650>>738807664Aight I'll mull it over
>>738740990>tismos cant handle a character that makes their flat map not flat anymoreLmao what a bunch of bitches
>>738807635Yeah, I thought ledge trumps were good when they first made the change, but I totally changed my mind. Edgeguards are cool and they’re so defanged with everyone having an amazing recovery and being able to grab ledge for free.
Being able to compeltely alter stage geometry is a really fucking gay gimmick and the character was a massive mistake even if he wasn't SS God tier. Utter cancer.
>>738805146I wish they would go back to melee item strength so bad. Ultimate has a lot of cool in theory items that either delete a stock if they connect or spawn a cpu to hunt someone down and delete their stock without you doing anything. Even my hyper-casual friends don't have fun putting up with that shit.
>>738774670He would be an incredibly oppressive top tier if his tail hurtbox was cut in half, he has virtually everything going for him besides that
>>738741508That’s nice. I avoid this by not playing smash with any competitive mindset
>>738806775Seems a little annoying to set up, but it's cool you can customize the vanilla game like that.
>>738808487>Mewtwo was only good in the least popular game in the seriesPoor, Poor Mewtwo.
>>738750897Samus is top tierZSS? mid tier where she belongs
>shielding is far too good in smash 4, all the top tiers have free grab combos out of shield>nerf grabbing out of shield and increase shield stun to ""try"" and fix that (the real problem is how retarded ladder combos were, and they still are)>now shielding is shit unless you have absurd options out of shield, and if you dont lmao enjoy D tier and lower, retard>hit game and watch or sonic out of shield? lol enjoy your free 30% damage dummy!Grab balancing, Sakurai. You had 3 years to try and do something about this, but failed. Better luck next time.
>>738809390>"Your smug aura scares me, Steve-sama..."
>>738741508Bayo had weaknesses, in fact that's all you're seeing in current Bayo since all the wack things that made her OP were toned down in Ultimate. You can't nerf Steve to not have these fundamental strengths without making him a non-character.
>>738741508But Smash is party game.
>>738807591This dude stuck in 2025
>>738803971Simon, Richter, X and Zero might need a little more polishBowser Jr. needs to be backported Diddy Kong needs the 4/Ultimate up airLuigi should have the Ultimate Poltergust Grab while Dr. Luigi doesn't Dry Bowser should have the fully 4/Ultimate Moveset while regular Bowser doesn't
>>738755395Tbqh, Mewtwo just needs an entirely different moveset. He was designed to be shit from his inception in Melee. Sakurai has this weird fascination with making powerful villains/anti-heros really bad in his games. The exception is Kirby, but we all know why he's been perpetually nerfed.
>>738755940nta, but I don't know how anyone could stand the input buffer in this game.
>>738807650>GalvanGenuinely love his design looks badass and his movset is not that bad and his voice has a cool mechanical beastly roar to it>La ReinaGenuinely hate her design because she's literally a tranny and her voice is so fucking annoying and aggravating that I refuse to play her
>>738814081She's not a tranny, she just looks like a man because RoA girls tend to have few feminine characteristics. If she had more feminine eyes (on the costumes that show her eyes) it would be passable
>>738814081>>738814456I can’t stand her voice, but she’s so much fun to play that I put up with it. Fleets voice is also extremely irritating. The characters that just sorta grunt are far more tolerable.
>>738815395>Fleets voice is also extremely irritatingfunny because I find her voice to be extremely adorable and the only one I can tolerate (excluding galvan of course)
>>738816179I think it could be cute if they toned her down a little. Between how over the top it is and how frequently she uses the exact same voice lines, it just becomes grating. If nothing else, making her like 20% quieter would be wonderful.
>>738804081Shes not as awful as bbcf
>>738816506Yeah I can understand people hating it for being too over the top I still like it though
>>738816506>Fleet wins while using the Lovers of Aether skin>SCHOOL'S OUT voice clip plays at double the volume of every other lineIt's been like this forever and it's painful
>>738817418Kek
does anyone miss /ssbg/?
>>738806775Spirits are cool, but even with something like this, you'd still be missing key mechanics like air to ground momentum, a useful microspacing option, decent platform movement, and rebalanced individual character mechanics. >>738803971Rex has too many unpolished characters for me. I'd prefer a mod like Legacy XP that takes the characters that feel the most finished like Sceptile, Silver, Toad, Dark Samus, Black Shadow, ect. and spruces them up enough to be on par with the regular PM cast.
>>738748943Are folx of color not invited?
>>738818005The two most recent DLC are Mexican- and Carribean-coded respectively
>>738818005kek
>>738741508Sakurai always leaves that one busted character in the game to make sure people are immediately ready to eat up the next one
>>738751312how is 4/5 of the characters i play in Dand why is the 5th, kirby, in Cnext smash im gonna become a meta whore
>>738818978Because you like a certain type of character, a slow hard-hitter, and that type of character is objectively weaker than a speedster with good combos, evasive neutral and strong recovery. You CAN make heavies good in platform fighters by either giving them some speed or other tools to help them in neutral, but Sakurai has no interest in the game's competitive space beyond throwing what he thinks is a bone with shit like Sm4sh's For Glory mode.
>Smash is supposed to be the biggest, craziest crossover ever>No Lars Ulrich, no Tung Tung Tung Sahur, no Peter Griffin, No Goku, no Lara Croft
