Wtf so it really was just ayy lmaos
>>738742109Base game already let you know it was just aliens. >all the godthings come from giant meteors that broke off from the primeval currentThey've always been aliens.
Why doesn't she prompt a GOD SLAIN prompt? She directly comes from the big GW. In hierarchy she's way above the Elden Beast and Miquella
>>738742337Because god is the generic title given to the alien that has an underling holding the elden ring. Metyr doesn't have that.
>>738742337Because she fucks off instead of dying.
>>738742497Nah you kill her you can see her turn into dust like every other boss you kill. She even creates grace from her death like all other bosses that die. She just isn't a god because her faction doesn't control the elden ring. People called the aliens god because they were idiots, the one guy that knows of Metyr knows what she actually is and never calls her a god.
I don't see how you people can even give a shit about the story in this game. Sure, it's more comprehensible than Bloodborne's, but it's all just so whatever.
>>738742337She doesn't die. You defeat her and it says legend felled. Much like Rennala and Morgott, who don't outright die when you defeat them.
>>738742337>Staff fashioned from the tail-fingers of Metyr, the >Mother of Fingers,>and the microcosm raised aloft over the crux they form.>Catalyst for casting both sorceries and incantations.>The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm.>Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come.Deadbeat Will disowned her
>>738742624Bro she straight up teleports when she dies.
>>738742109bloodborne again
>>738743141It speaks to people who like dealing in esoterica and the qualities of mankind, people that have no interest in that can go beat up enemies and not think twice about the story. Saying you don't like the story is saying the themes don't resonate with you, it informs us on who you are as a person more than the story of the game. There's a reason 99% of guys playing the game react the same way to Godfrey becoming Horah Loux in a cutscene. The 1% that don't get the hype won't get it, that is fine.
>>738742624>>738742497She teleports away. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1eubc3r/metyr_doesnt_fade_away_like_the_rest_of_bosses/
>>738743415She tries to but then turns to dust as she dies like all other bosses you kill. The dust effect happens before she finishes the spell, she dies while it goes off. Then it says legend felled because by that point in the story you the player should already understand these aren't gods.
why is elden ring lore so retarded? We need to go back to the Dark Souls and Bloodborne days when fromsoft lore was good.
>>738743482She dies and then her microcosm collapses. You can go watch her death animation frame by frame, she dies before anything happens.
>>738743571No. She teleported away. You're actually a retard. Her body is fully intact and then suddenly goes away after she uses the TELEPORT EFFECT
>>738742109IRL ayys are just demons from another dimension, so it's not really so far-fetched
>>738743578They got the worst modern fantasy writer that isn't Sanderson onboard for it so no shit it's going to be bad.
>>738743578Because its based on understandings of pseuds from hundreds of years ago. It is internally consistent but you live in the 21st century so you know its all copes by people attempting to explain things they can't explain. You should know exactly how dumb the populace of the game is when you beat Radahn and Blaidd calls the falling meteor a star.
>>738743875>You should know exactly how dumb the populace of the game is when you beat Radahn and Blaidd calls the falling meteor a star.a meteor is also called a falling star, you absolute, absolute fucking retard
I don’t know if it’s because it’s was obvious from the beginning or because the lands between is such a fucked up place, but the cosmic horror stuff really lacked impact for me, it just felt like more stuff being thrown into the pot.
>>738743346It's pretty funny to think that everyone is fighting and arguing over whatever the Greater Will wants, when the reality is the Greater Will just got bored and left long before Marika lost her shit.
>>738744042But we know they are bolides, the people in Elden Ring don't. In Marika's time they think red hair is some sort of curse instead of it being a recessive trait, that exact parallel happened in primitive british history.
>>738744321The GW likes reality being a battlefield, it is like TES with Lorkhan intentionally making reality a big physical and metaphorical battleground so a supreme will percolates to the top and all the swill removed. ER used hundreds of items in the shape of an eye to show you the GW is always watching in on you, NR doubled down on that by making the skybox of the boss fights always have a giant eye looking down on you (you now remember the memes about gideon's eye as cloud shadows). The GW doesn't respond because reality is going exactly as it planned.
>>738743346>Sophia was one of the “aeons” – divine entities who were descended from God the Father and who were roughly equivalent to angels. Of the many aeons, Sophia was the last to arise from God.>Like the other aeons, Sophia was the child of a male-female pair of aeons that had come before her, who had given birth with the Father’s blessing. Sophia and the rest of the aeons formed the “Pleroma” (Greek for “Fullness”), the Gnostic name for Heaven.>Sophia wanted to have a child, too. But she went about it in the wrong way: she conceived without the involvement of her male partner or the approval of the Father. Her child was the “demiurge,” a misshapen, belligerent creature that was utterly unlike the other heavenly beings.>Sophia immediately realized her horrible mistake and cast her child out of the Pleroma. The demiurge, now alone, believed that he was the only being who had ever existed, and created the material world out of his ignorance, foolishness, and malevolence, trapping sparks of divinity within Adam and Eve along the way.>Because of her fall and its dire consequences, Sophia became a flawed being. Her deficiency rendered her unable to remain in the perfect “Fullness” of the Pleroma, so she was placed just outside of the Pleroma, in a realm above that of her malevolent son. In anguish, Sophia repented, and the Father agreed to bring her back to the Pleroma once what had become lacking in her was restored to its natural fullness.
>>738744805>Long ago, Metyr was damaged and her Ringed Finger was removed. She would never again receive a signal from the Greater Will. The wisdom received by the Two Fingers was severed, and Metyr began birthing the aberrant Fingercreepers. Metyr concealed herself within the Finger Ruins of Miyr, below the Cathedral of Manus Metyr, and waited for an eternity in vain for another signal from her lord.>Although Metyr was broken, her Two Fingers continued guiding the empyreans without a word from the Greater Will. It is said they presided over the birth of Marika’s Erdtree as she created it from the primordial matter of the Crucible.
>>738744083Its different kind of hardship imo. The thing isnt "beings manipulating us and bringing our downfall". The main catch is that the ayys have left long ago: this world is what humans/demigods could make of it, but instead of striving for good they fight amongst eachother over what they think ayys want the world to be / who gets to be their mouthpiece. Lands Between could be a paradise ruled over by benevolent demigods, but instead they destroyed it fighting over the favor of beings who dont care because they left ages ago.
>>738742337The games dont have a plot, why do you care?
Are zoomniggers allergic to typing the word "alien"? Fucking faggots type "ayy lmao" reflexively. Do you not realize how retarded all the brainrot meme garbage makes you sound? Wish I could kill you all through the internet
>>738744998They think they're being uncool if they aren't being as black as humanly possible at all times.
>>738742109>modern fantasy story>duhhh what if the gods were just like dudes or whatever brrrrrrrffft>ggguh what if the gods is aliens from space or something>"wow how fuckin subversive and cool and new how has this never been done before!!!!"fucking retards
>>738745139Kys retard
>>738745139nobody said that about er THOUGH
>>738745139My personal favorite is>modern fantasy story>magic is just super advanced technology and the world is contemporary earth after an apocalyptic eventAlways feels like the author taking a shit right on my plate.
>>738745359*rapes you*
>>738744998People are saying alien in this thread bro. OP said it and people replying to him are saying it. Ayyy lmao is an old meme and it applies here because we kill all these aliens they aren't threatening they are a joke when you realize how easy they are to kill but everyone in the setting are under their thumbs.
>>738744998Dear nitpicking ESL: Alien literally refers to extraterrestrial lifeform. Terrestial as in Terra as in Earth. Since we're nitpicking, Lands Between doesnt take place in Earth. Calling these beings aliens wouldnt make sense. The informal "ayys" refers to something alien-like but doesnt have hard-coded Earty association and the term is widely understood on this platform. Hence it is more appropriate in this context.
>>738742109Metyr is Miyazaki, in case you missed the obvious allegory.
>>738743578>why is elden ring lore so retarded?Because it's trying to be too clever.It's a world entirely constructed with the idea that its very lore points you towards the fact that it's a video game, a world whose very fabric is dictated by the repetitive motion of countless fingers.
>>738744998the phrase ayy lmao is likely older than you are.
>>738743578bloodborne is even worse, everything makes sense and is more or less self contained until you move onto the dlc, where nested realities become a thing, and suddenly even the chalice dungeons are now different realities because loran is a long gone world that also fell to the beast scourgeand if you want to delve into unused/beta content, there's also the fact that the standard chalice dungeons, ie the very universe you exist in, might have been built atop boletaria, which is the land from DeS
>>738745995>where nested realities become a thingAll FS games use this conceit for their (((multiverse))) and it is always use as a tree that bears fruit and there is a whole reality in that fruit. Even AC does it with the Ravens living in a NEST on Branches. Its birds in their worldtree. Dark souls has the trees, Elden Ring has the trees and the fruits, NR has the scenic relics showing those fruits have entire realities in them.Look up what ancient cultures thought of the pomegranate. The Hellboy comics make direct reference to it with Abu Gung. TES had the perchance persimmon, same idea.
>>738743578I feel most gamers are retarded as they can't grasp anything that isnt a straight forward hand holding plot thats usually watered down to focus on gameplay anyways. Then they proceed to call anything that deviates from that pretentious or retarded, ignoring the point of games is to interact in a virtual world, decoding the story while you interact with the virtual environment like a puzzle. Would you really prefer if they pulled a Kojima or Xenosaga and threw 30 min long cutscenes explaning everything? And you wonder why gaming is stagnant nowadays.
why fingers thoughseriously why? is it just "lol finger creatures are weird" or is there some deeper symbolism to touch on
the two fingers is the master hand, the three fingers is the crazy hand. you're wlecome
>>738746348The main theme is about decay and regeneration, something the Japanese themselves are struggling with after their humiliating defeat. You know how Phillip K Dick wrote a bunch of novels and short stories even though they're all mostly the same when you get down to it? this is that.
>>738742624You didn't play the game
>>738746960How is a video game made? Through the movement of countless fingers.
>>738746960People that have their lives controlled by others regularly refer to it as an unseen hand guiding them. >>738747280I beat the game like 30 times at this point.
>>738746960Palmistry
>>738746906The irony in you defending them and calling gaming stagnant is that Fromsoft have literally been making the same exact game for the past 15 years.
>>738744995Low quality bait
>>738747509>HyperboleOpinion discarded
>>738745995>until you move onto the dlc, where nested realities become a thingYou already know you are on multiple layers of dreams within dreams, you even travel to multiple such dreams in the main game.Hell, the game's good ending is literally you waking up the next morning, remembering everything as nothing more than a bad dream.
>>738747509They're apart of a large corporation who themselves are beholden to their stockholders to make a profit. Small devs and indie devs have no excuses though.
>>738746960All the aforementioned posts AND the GO eras were a parallel to roman schisms where there were massive theological fights over clergy using 2 fingers or 3 fingers as a symbol of office.
>>738747875>roman schisms where there were massive theological fights over clergy using 2 fingers or 3 fingers as a symbol of officeThe finger schism is Russian orthodox.
ER has the best From lore and it honestly makes their other outputs look amateurish at best
>>738747951Look up where the russian orthodox church sprang from. Time is a line and a circle.
>>738742109whats with the goatse character?
>>738748230anon, just because something came from somewhere else doesn't mean it's the same thing.Things become different over time.
>>738746960>The Fingers are, of course, allegorical to sexual assault- that is, the Greater Will is "fingering" society without consent. Sex is, after all, the great motivator even for the gods. But you should note that the longer the Fingers are present, the more society is used to and even enjoys it. You also see this in Tolkien's works, such as Frodo's implicit trysts with Samwise and Gollum. That's why I had Mito-mato give Marika the largest breasts possible, nobody would take her authority seriously otherwise. He's a good fellow and receptive employee, but let's just say that he should stick to writing computer code and not the important parts.
>>738748212ERfags actually believe this lol
>>738748212(You)
>>738748331The more they change the more they stay the same. I get what you mean though.
every faction is either irredeemable or unlikeable>fingers are deceived deceivers, no reason to side with them>golden order is decent if you're not oppressed but you'll end up being an old man devoid of vitality>ranni removes your physical senses so you can't even get to enjoy doll sex>god of rot literally just kills you slowly and painfully with no upside>formless mother goons you gratuitously but only if you let her torture you on the side. decent if you're into masochism ig>fell god gives you power but you'll be fated to become a sacrifice for them, so wtf is the point>dragon communion just literally doesn't work lol, you don't get to be a dragon get cursed into a lame magma wyrm instead>deathblight kills your soul and leaves your body behind as a zombie. how the fuck can they even be oppressed lmao>frenzied flame just kills you, which to be fair can be okay if you really need a mercy killing for some reason>glintstone gives you power but haha surprise you're now stuck in a big ball of burger king heads for eternity, that'll teach you for seeking the truth about the universe! fuck off>god devouring serpent just eats you and you become a mindless capcom drone devouring whatever slop remake they release for all eternity. worse than death>beast stuff gives you power at the cost of losing your conscience and humanity. but i guess becoming an animal is not as bad as everything else listed>black flame is neat until you become a low-functioning autist godskin apostle or a fat ugly bastard godskin noble. but idk if that's actually bad so simping for the gloam-eyed queen might be goated?>the erdtree is a parasite pretending to be symbiotic, heals you in the short-term, saps you away in the long-term>the crucible fucks your body up with a whole bunch of shit but hey at least you're horny as fuck in more ways than oneliterally what is there to do other than going strength or dexterity and telling everything in the game to go fuck themselves
>>738747487Also>The Hand of God, or Manus Dei in Latin, also known as Dextera domini/dei (the "right hand of God"), is a motif in Jewish and Christian art, especially of the Late Antique and Early Medieval periods, when depiction of Yahweh or God the Father as a full human figure was considered unacceptable. The hand, sometimes including a portion of an arm, or ending about the wrist, is used to indicate the intervention in or approval of affairs on Earth by God, and sometimes as a subject in itself. It is an artistic metaphor that is generally not intended to indicate that a hand was physically present or seen at any subject depicted. The Hand is seen appearing from above in a fairly restricted number of narrative contexts, often in a blessing gesture (in Christian examples), but sometimes performing an action. In later Christian works it tends to be replaced by a fully realized figure of God the Father, whose depiction had become acceptable in Western Christianity, although not in Eastern Orthodox or Jewish art.[1] Though the hand of God has traditionally been understood as a symbol for God's intervention or approval of human affairs, it is also possible that the hand of God reflects the anthropomorphic conceptions of the deity that may have persisted in late antiquity.
>>738748525Libra's staff uses a left hand so the right hand/left hand paths are definitely a thing going on.
>>738748525
>>738748676
>>738742109>this is just some lame side quest instead of the final bossWhat were they thinking?
>>738748519Just like irl.
>>738742497>>738743482You quite literally receive her head as a weapon.
>>738742337It's literally nothing more than a stranded wild ayy lmao. The whole religion about its finger children being messengers from the GW was complete schizofiction in the end.
>>738748976That skill description makes her a little pitiable. The dumb bitch hated her role in the grand scheme of things lol.
>>738747758I hope you can forgive me...
>>738743440>like dealing with esoterica>the game is pressing circle followed by R1 ad naseumLmao you’re insanely gay
>>738749256Go beat up enemies to beat them up if you don't care about the story, the game caters to you while also catering to people that care about the lore and story like me.
>>738742109kinda insane that she literally summons mini blackholes her theme is also a modified sample of the "sound" that a blackhole makes
>>738749452It makes Radahn controlling gravity out of sheer autism even cooler. Dude really was on the level of these aliens just by being autistic.
>>738749159Well, duh. The GW abandoned her and then Marika sent her to the shadow realm and only a single tranny left to remember her.
>>738749256You're insanely braindead
>>738749452>The great Earth Mother emerged out of primordial chaos. Dark and fecund, from her fertile womb all life springs; she gives birth to the mineral kingdom, the plant kingdom, the animal kingdom, and the human kingdom. She sustains and nourishes all life through her body and, at the completion of each life cycle, all living things return to her. As such, She is the source of all the dark, rich, fertile processes of Nature, the agent of all fertile transformations in external and inner nature—in the outside world and in the psyche.>Greek Roots: It is derived from the Greek word mētēr (μήτηρ), which literally translates to "mother.">The "Meter" Connection: It also plays on words like matter or matrix (Latin for "womb"), reinforcing her role as the progenitor of the Fingercreepers and the Two Fingers.
>>738742337she got godfrey'd dude. no godhood anymore.
>>738744995they literally tell you the plot in the first fucking second of the game, what the fuck are you talking about you retard
G R e a t e R W i l lRRM
>>738749838Her name also sounds like meteor, which is what the ayys all originally are. The layers this game operates on are kind of unparalleled.
>>738742109It's always aliens. Predictive programming for when they eventually reveal that aliens created humans.
>>738749950There is a year's long grudge against the game's story and lore because you have to be an egghead with an interest in the bronze age to know how the lore all fits together. It is literally just luddites raging at being luddites.
overdeveloped pattern-recognition is one hell of a drug
>>738749965>The layers this game operates on are kind of unparalleledI love elden ring but please for the love of god play other video games and actually look into their naming of things before saying stuff like that.
>>738750032
>Manus Metyr>Metyr lives in the basement>Moonlight Altar has pic relatedSo who the fuck is Celes?
>>738749967The word Demi God fits better than aliens to keep in line with the grander mythological narrative. Evertime is read aliens in just think of X-Files and bad sci-fi.
>>738748519I'm probably the only person who will actually read your post and this is 85% headcanon.
>>738750101I've played hundreds of games, almost none of them touch the scope ER does. Closest I can think of is TES and that took 5 games over 20 years to cover what ER covers in 2 games that came out 4 years apart. It unironically is a magnum opus series, and I don't care how assmad that makes you.
>>738750219I'm just saying them naming Metyr like that is not some insane grand accomplishment.
>>738750164Alien demi god if you prefer. Most people's brains will instinctively call it an alien.
>>738749159Reading comprehension really is dying huh? The resentment builds because the weapon itself is still alive and resentment being wielded by a mortal. It's kowtowing to YOU the player
>>738750175[citation needed]
>>738750137Manus = Manu the vedic first manThe basement = the black void were life is created.Remember the Manu boss fight in ds 1 was in a literal underground black void.
>>738750285I'm saying that tying it in with the mother roots while maintaining the meteor imagery the game has already used is clever. I think dung eater is clever naming, I think goldmask's mask being the erdtree as seen from the perspective of the aliens is clever. I think the game being bloodborne 2.0 but with beauty being the trap is clever. I think the malformed dragon knights using fool's gold in their armor is clever, I think D's armor having brass and fake silver is clever. All of this is interesting to me because I have a general interest in the bronze age and the cultures therein. You can act like a woman that sees me enjoying stuff so you have to come over and ruin it solely to ruin it but that doesn't reflect on me at all.
>>738749965How do you feel about the fact that there's a cyclic parity between the so-called splitting of the one great, and the destruction of the Elden Ring? As above, so below.
>>738743748Sanderson sucks ass too.
>>738750419She does that attack in the fight anon, she kowtows to the GW and the resentment has built as she's had to endure it. >>738750454I don't really care either way because you can't actually return to the one great. It is exactly like the merrish fags in TES wanting to return to the pre-dawn et'ada days when they can't do that.
>>738746960It's just symbolism for manipulative beings. Just like how you pressing buttons on a controller makes the character on your screen do things.
>>738750583Jews think they can. That's the whole point of their kabbalah system and tikkun olam.
>>738743440You can be possessed of esoteric understanding and still find an individual usage of such themes boring as a value judgment.
>>738750583You didn't answer my question
>>738750685god fucking damnit it always comes back to that doesn't it. you connect the dots
>>738746960It's some metaphorical shit for the modern day world and how we are more disconnected than ever and probably don't hug or shake hands with one another as much as we used to because "the kids on they phone all day".But they have to make it cool and interesting to play so they make it an alien or evil force or final boss in the game, honestly videogame companies are such a fucking joke its unreal.
>>738750685I know bud, you bring it up a LOT. There is a reason that faith structure is at eternal odds with everyone that isn't them. >>738750690You sure can, it takes all kinds. >>738750760That was my answer anon, I don't think there is any connection between the 2. There is a connection between the people that created the 3 fingers and Marika making their lives so bad they kvetched into a void of nihilism and created the finger. Those people were persecuted and did their do before the shattering happened. I think those people are retarded, we see their endgoal in the FF ending, it isn't a goodness.
>>738750838You reach farther than lorefags
>>738750879Death Stranding has hand symbology in it, I am not extrapolating from nothing.
esotericism and occultism are fucking cool as shit until you realize there's literally no practical use for all the knowledge you accumulated. at least i get to be wise or soemthing idk
>>738751065There is a reason everyone into it ends up forming fellowships or fraternities of like minded people and they all ascend the social ladder while not talking to you about anything. It is just another form of nepotism, but using a meritocracy to dictate the nepotism.
>>738751065It's a form of history, you could at least say its a form of study of human society over the centuries.
>>738751065Go deep enough into the topic and you always end up in the realm of moral absolutism. Once you are in that sphere of discussion you can use it for the rest of your life to gauge who is worth wasting time on and who isn't.
>>738750871>That was my answer anon, I don't think there is any connection between the 2.You've spent the entire thread blabbing about tenuous etymology, but you draw the line at the two instances of metaphysical fracture causing disparity, with the context that the rising of disparity is one of the most common storytelling themes they constantly put in their games? You think that was accident, but your vedic interpretation of manus (rather than the obviously Latin meaning) isn't reaching?And no, you didn't and you still haven't. You answered a question I didn't ask.
>>738751065>he doesn't see the future with his esotericism and occultismApply yourself
>>738742624Why do people who haven't played the game leave comments? Are you chatgpt or are you just a stupid fucking idiot?
>>738751065Don't get it twisted. Having said knowledge doesn't make you better than anyone else.
>>738751065>He doesn't know the practical applications
>>738751065It reveals the inner self to the outer world. >>738751257Bro, you can use the day/night cycle as a cited example of a fractured whole, which NR does, it is simply a repeated theme in the games. I get where you are coming from but the people trying to use a destruction of reality as their go to way to return to completeness are idiots, they are the byproduct of something upstream they can't understand. The actual message of completeness and rejoining of a fractured whole is the shadow self the game does a thousand iterations of. The world cannot become complete as a singularity, but you can become complete by accepting the faults in yourself.
>>738751257>but your vedic interpretation of manus (rather than the obviously Latin meaning) isn't reaching?Not me by the way, didn't read your whole post. Look at how angry and confused you've become.
>>738751065It makes you clap when you see references in vidya
>>738751398Lil guy probably can't even sense auras.
>>738751449I don't think you do get where I'm coming from, because you just did it again. I'm not asking you how you feel about the Frenzied Flame quest, the big bang is barely even mentioned in it. I'm asking you about the repeated theme of gold giving rise to disparity, which you apparently think (somehow) is completely accidental. That's the closest you've come to answering the question, that you didn't even realize that it was a meta-theme. They rub your face in it dude, it has nothing to do with the Frenzied Flame besides a throwaway line of a literal demon. Maybe you should run the game back and pay more attention to how "fracture" is used.
>>738751625I do this but I'm American
>>738750137>Celesthe sky
>>738751320No clue. >>738752034I get it anon, I'm intentionally sidestepping your implications because they are wrong. I already told you the merchants made the 3 fingers before the shattering. I then told you that NR uses the day/night cycle as its fracture. The theme is there but different groups have different ideas on what to do with that information. Some are outright bad, like destroying reality.
>>738746960Personally, and this is just my opinion based primarily on no evidence, the fingers are obviously based on fungal organisms, the Dead Man's Fingers, morphologically and symbolically, but granted sapience and agency. Metyr was sent to the Lands Between long ago, probably because she was a overgrown veruca on the ass-end of the Greater Will, sent like a comet or fungal spore when the Greater Will's heavenly star body underwent stellar collapse and evolved into a black hole. Metyr was pulsar'd out, and used her finger (finger - funger - fungus - see what From's done here?) powers to mess around with the local basal wildlife forms
>>738752409>1k hours in the game about doing the same optimal route over and overholy mother of mental illness. also please tell me those characters were for pvp and not to please your low-functioning autism's demand for repetition above all else
>>738752409This is going to trigger the fuck out of him.
>>738750685Mohg has nothing to do with Yesod and the Unborn is completely unrelated to Chokma. Tipereth Godrick is nonsense too.Rykard and Geburah is a bit of a reach, as well. Malkuth is also a bit too abstract of a concept to encompass Morgott.It's neat that Malenia and Radahn do map onto Hod and Netzach respectively, though.
>>738752558>also please tell me those characters were for pvpLots of red women died as I maxed out rune arcs in co-op. Never once invaded, I'm not transitioning.
>>738751065Divination is very real and a very useful tool, even if its applications are far more limited than some more religiously minded practicioners would have you believe.Any complex rules-based system you can filter your thoughts through is useful.Flipping over Tarot cards is just one way to do that sort of thing. Of course, to properly utilize the Tarot you need to have a solid grasp of western and eastern mysticism.
>>738751527He's implying that the build up to the fracture of the ring is a microcosm of the original grander fracture that created everything, an allusion to hermeticism. Marika and everyone else is just playing a role in a cosmic tragedy play. This is the buddhistic samara.
>>738752994He's wrong.
>>738746960>seriously why?See >>738747316.The point is that it's all metafiction nonsense. Elden Ring is a a world that was brought to life by "a Greater Will" and countless fingers moving in accordance wth that will.It takes heavy inspiration from this idea of working magic by "speaking the language of the world". And what is the language of the world of a video game, any video game? The repetitive, but ordered twitching of fingers.It's clever, but in this really obnoxious and dare I say "reddit" kind of way.
>>738753151>It's clever, but in this really obnoxious and dare I say "reddit" kind of way.
>>738752409I asked you about a meta-theme in no small terms and you've continually kept trying to force a conversation about a single instance of the theme. No, you don't get it. No matter how much pointing I give you, you're going to continue to not get it and that much is apparent. You misread my question and that's fine enough, but this refusing to own up to after it's been pointed out to you 3 times is just fucking sad dude.
>>738750503He's implying Sanderson is the worst behind Gurm, doofus
Yeah, maybe it's time to rev up my dusty ol copy for another run.What build would be coolest and most fun build?>STR/INT where I use those glinstone hammer and sword spells with high poise, like those battle mages>FTH/INT casterCHAD where I don't swing a single weapon for the whole game>pure ARC memery>leveling every single stat equally and having a big collection of different weapons and spells to swap between for each scenario
>>738753798pure ARC. rush to 60 vigor first, get venomous fang, put flaming strike on it. after 60 vig switch to two great omenkiller cleavers, cheese mohg with them. get mohgwyn's sacred spear and grab the bloodfiend's sacred spear in the dlc. powerstance both of them. congrats you now have the most overpowered build in the game. after 80 arcane put points into mind and faith to be the most overpowered caster on top of all that. you're welcoem
>>738753363k
>>738753957Thanks. I'm not cheesing or rushing anything, but I will try these weapons when/if I get them.
>>738754558sry my minmax autism took over and i didn't realize you were asking for meme builds. leveling every stat equally is something i thought about trying myself but i can't play the game without 60 vigor, it sounds like hell. godrick's great rune and grafted sword are must haves for sure
>>738746960They wanted something to represent an eldritch being/deity without using tentacles (they already used that in bloodborne).Human/ape fingers are long and abnormally dextrous compared to the appendages of most other animals. They're effectively the vertebrate equivalent of a tentacle. However, as humans, we cannot help but perceive them as normal. Disembodying the hand and removing some of the fingers alters its humanoid shape into something less familiar which helps to achieve the same desired effect on the audience as tentacles.Fromsoft just decided to get some thematic mileage out of the fact that humans (and other apes) are the tentacle monsters of the vertebrate world.
Why is magic/physics female oriented in this universe? It’s all based around birth and motherhood. The masculine sun got displaced by a big feminine tree, and the Carian sisters are even smarter and more magical than the grandmaster founders of the academy; the feminine moon is seemingly a more intelligent celestial body than the masculine stars.
>>738754690You're probably right. The DLC would be absolute C&B torture with so many levels spent on non-vig stats.
>>738748212Elden Ring doesn't get enough credit for how much From tried to improve their character-design and worldbuilding compared to their previous games. Despite the familiarly decrepit state of things, the world wasn't quite as detached as an Olympian tomb for the gods of unimaginable aeons past, spirited away from the mortal world, nor a nightmare city inhabited only by a scarce few on the verge of jittering madness. There's a socio-political element to the game that's reflected in the ambitions of several characters, especially those that strive to repair the Elden Ring with their mending runes like Fia, the Dung-Eater etc.Much of Dark Souls 1's cast of named characters were fellow undead, and felt alien to the abstract region of Lordran as you were. Bloodborne's cast was scarce and felt like interesting vignettes to the generally solitary psychological transcendental journey the player undergoes.In Elden Ring, the major players of the games core narrative-pulse, Marika shattering the Elden Ring and the ensuing power-play, can still be felt like open sores on the game's landscape. The shardbearers linger in various states of disrepair, either licking their wounds, maddened, or husks, and then you have shit like the Fire Monks southward march, the combatants at the Road of Iniquity, the Battle of Aeonia, Ranni and the Radahn festival etc. They attempted to paint a cohesive narrative history using the game's world whereas, especially in the pre-Bloodborne games, there's just this sense that From put a lot of disparate elements together.The DLC was particularly compelling with its character interactions, especially how it lead to the climax in the Ash chamber just before Radahn 2.0. I don't think any of the DLC's From have ever released have even attempted anything as elaborate. It's just a shame they didn't go back and add parts that reflected on the DLC in the base game. A few words with Gideon Ofnir could have made all the difference.
>>738755358It isn't.
>>738755358Cause thats how it is irl. The moon is associated with the feminine and sorcery/magic.
>>738755358>Why is this thing so [either side of the coin] oriented in this universe?Duality is a lie. All is one. Male and female are one. Heaven and earth are one. Such is the way towards the Great Work. V.I.T.R.I.O.L.
>>738755358Shut. Up. Judgess.
>>738755358Dreaming of alternative realities are all females can do. Men only need to know the basics before getting shit done.
>>738755454I like how the dlc recontextualized dung eater and goldmasks endings, but there needed to be more of that. Before the dlc we knew dung eater and goldmask were idiots but the dlc sells just how dumb they were in a good way.
>>738755475You’re actually wrong. The moon is male and the sun is female in Japanese myth. The primary god of magic and the moon in the west is a dude not a woman. Even in feminine Norse myth the moon is male. It really depends on the place and culture and the cosmos was more so a male and masculine area; the classical wizards and star readers were men usually.
>>738755640Goldmask was fundamentally correct, just wrong in accepting the Golden Order as perfect, when its time has long passed.
>>738755358But don't you see, the great work of the man is to become as a woman and the great work of the woman is to become as man.Only by unifying the masculine and feminine can you truly achieve rubedo.
>>738755463Marika, a woman, completed his work.
>>738754951Not saying you're wrong or anything as its likely the case but it seems explaining anything abnormal as loevcratian influenced is a lazy way of explaining it. Ever since Bloodborne people have been using this to explain everything fs games.
>>738755662This game isn't a japanese myth, its pulled from indo-european cultures that sprang up in europe. >>738755693He was always wrong because he was soresighted and cared about Marika instead of the grander cycle all the elden ring bearers exist within. Learning he was a hornsent is the only addition the dlc has, which only serves to inform you that his grand scheme actually is as petty as it looked in the base game. He is simply the product of his environment like dung eater, neither has the full scope of the situation like the player does. Any ending that doesn't break the ring wars is the wrong choice.
>>738755358> the Carian sisters are even smarter and more magical than the grandmaster founders of the academy; the feminine moon is seemingly a more intelligent celestial body than the masculine stars.Retard. The founders are much more evolved than Rennala. She may have the brainiest spell but she’s not the brainiest wizard of all.
>>738755849Cool, even in Europe the moon isn’t guaranteed to be a woman.
>>738755849>its pulled from indo-european cultures that sprang up in europe.Mani is a man and Sunna is a woman.
>>738755775>Ever since Bloodborne people have been using this to explain everything fs games.Because the devs keep intentionally referencing it. ER is a giant fantasy take on the Color Out of Space with some King in Yellow thrown in there. Even Chambers wrote stories in the mythos. ER actually moves past it's source material to hinge its lovecraftian horror not on some unexplainable evil man can't comprehend, the beast takes over because it gives everyone the beauty they want the world to be. >>738755946The moon or sun don't have genders in ER, they are simply celestial bodies/aliens. Men and women are men and women and they like to see their own likeness in reality, thats all.
>>738755946it's from Renaissance alechemy, chud. In Renaissance alchemy moon is silver symbolized by female symbol and male symbol with gold/sun.
>>738756137The god of magic and alchemy and science was also the god of the moon you big retard.
>>738756042Miyazaki sees magic and the moon as feminine. This goes all the way back to Gwyndolin and Seath in Dark Souls to Rennala and Ranni in Elden Ring.
>>738756042>some King in Yellow thrown in thereThere is literally no part of Elden Ring that features extreme paranoia, massive delusion or a book that makes you schizo out, other than arguably lorefagging.Actually go and read the book.>>738755775Bloodborne is explicitly Lovecraftian, because it reframes a discomfort with an ordinary part of life as an incomprehensible, unknowable horror.In the case of Lovecraft, that's Niggers, the Irish, jazz music, homosexuals, inbreeding and lots of other things.In the case of Bloodborne, it's that women's bodies and childbirth are utterly disgusting.
>>738756249If you say so.
>>738756197I just don't see it that way
No male has reached 70 intelligence kekOtherwise Gideon would have used the spell in his fight lmao
>>738744995It has an excuse plot. Shits fucked up and you’ve been called back to the lands to fix it by any means necessary. Which usually means murder.
>>738749950why would I give two shits about restoring the elden ring, after years no one has answered this fucking questionwho gives a shit about the lands between, why are they surrounded by endless water, does the rest of the world care about these lands? are they between your mom's ass? demon's souls gave you a reason to fight - the demons were taking over mankingdark souls gave you a reason to fight - everyone got cursed and the world was endingbloodborne gave you a reason to fight - the night was endless and everyone was trapped in a fucking nightmare they couldn't wake up fromwho gives a flying fuck about the lands between, who gives a fuck about grace, or dying, there's no plot what so ever just messed up lore
>>738743223KekKojima really despises Miyazaki, well to be fair the feeling seem to be mutual though
>>738756309Then you don’t know dark souls or how Miyazaki thinks sorry.>>738756312Then you don’t know hermeticism or just the origins of alchemy.
>>738756407give me proof that you're right though
>>738743578The game was barely finished on time and tons of stuff had to be cut or rearranged because of that.
>>738756403>the night was endless and everyone was trapped in a fucking nightmare they couldn't wake up fromNo, just you.
>>738756308The orange noble robe has the yellow sign all over it, the 3 fingers when looked at directly is the yellow sign. The first story in the collection is called the repairer of reputations, which is what Kale is attempting to do for his tribe, who serve the 3 fingers who is the shape of the yellow sign.You are simply dumb.
>>738756448About what? Look up Thoth, Hermeticism, and Hermes Trismegistus. The god of magic and math and science and higher learning goes all the way back to Egypt. The female god of magic (Isis) always ran to Thoth - her dad in some accounts - for magical help.
>>738755662I know, I should have said generally associated. In western occultistism the moon is associated with the mother and the sun with son/father, due to how passive the moon is and how active the sun is and their associations with thegenderss. Obviously it varies in different cultures but the western one is the main one atm. Both have aspects of both gender principles. The Hindus tackle this with their gods having both aspects, as well as the ones in this game.
>>738756497Have you read The Repairer of Reputations?It's about a guy who goes fucking crazy while being convinced by another crazy guy (the eponymous Repairer of Reputations) that he's the king of the US. Of course, at the end of the short story, it is revealed that the narrator is just a paranoid schizo.
>>738756497Okay I didn't know about this.
>>738756308>In the case of Bloodborne, it's that women's bodies and childbirth are utterly disgusting.
>>738756620>It's about a guy who goes fucking crazy while being convinced by another crazy guyGuess what eating the eye of yelough (yellow) does?
>>738756616> In western occultistism the moon is associated with the mother and the sun with son/father, due to how passive the moon is and how active the sun is and their associations with thegenderss.Sure, by some accounts, but it’s still nonetheless embodied by a male being at times. Hermes embodies the sun and the moon and the stars whole. His earliest incarnation (Thoth) was the god of the moon.
I guarantee you Azur or Lusat could one shot Rennala or Ranni if they wanted to.
>>738756582Ok I believe you. I wanted to learn about Hermeticism but I'm really lazy and low IQ so it's hard to understand
>>738756723Guy probably never even realized why it was called that or why it is associated with the guys that have other references to the king in yellow.
>>738756670Anon, Bloodborne is a game where your objective is chasing a ghastly woman who is bleeding out of her pregnant belly to murder her newborn child.But don't think too hard about all this, just go out and kill a few beasts.
>>738746960>elden RING>FINGERS - > which provide DIRECTIONget it now? fingers point to stuff and wear rings
>>738756620In other words, they were consumed by MADNESS?
Wahhhh why don't you hate elden ring yet I've shitposted about it for 4 years hate elden ring already hate it hate it hate it hate it!!!!
Sekiro = masculist Bloodborne = misogynist Elden Ring = feminist
>>738746960try fingerbut, whole
>>738756902No, because the madness depicted in Elden Ring is extremely different from the things that afflict the people in the King in Yellow.
>>738756809They couldn't because they turned themselves to rocks. Checkmate, moids.
>>738756809Nope the moon > stars
>>738756998Not quite. The unreliable nature of the narration or events of the KiY is central to its themes, it is also central to you talking to the 3 fingers as it makes a bunch of stuff up to you.
>>738748976>press F to pay respects
By assuming the moon is actually better than the stars you assume that this is a cringe girl boss wiccan game and you shouldn’t condone that level of writing. Similar to how you shouldn’t condone what they did to Radahn and Miquella.
>>738750137Manus Celes means Hand of the Sky
>>738757059The three fingers communicate by burning their fingerprints into things, they are not capable of communicating complex ideas, they are not capable of deception. They can only communicate one single thing, which Shabriri helpfully translates for you:>May chaos take the world
>>738757225Its a retard anon, it didn't even know vyke wearing his armor (a representation of the self) would ruin its plans so it made Hyetta afterward. The game shows you a refinement of its system because it is literally making it all up as it goes. It has the ability to be a catalyst for your nihilism, thats it. It doesn't have some hidden information or divine truth about reality, it is just a reflection of a people that were peak nihilists.
>>738757312Shabriri is not the three fingers.
>>738757225Shabriri doesn't read the fingerprints. Only a true fingerprint maiden can. Hyetta quotes straight Three Fingers rhetoric. Shabriri is just a demon. >>738757312>headcanon about why Vyke's embrace failedGod damn. Back to /erg/ headcanon-kun
>>738757178Celes is a conjugation of celo, which means to hide. It has nothing to do with the sky.
>>738757460>Celes is primarily derived from the Latin word caelestis, meaning "heavenly" or "of the sky"Sorry no.
>>738757368Did someone say he was? The 3 fingers fucked up with Vyke because the 3 fingers doesn't even know how it works. So he makes Hyetta after failing once. Something that claims to know stuff about the inner workings of reality wouldn't make that failing, but a charlatan would. >>738757459No hyetta to tell him to take his armor off anon. I'm discussing why the 3 fingers wouldn't know it would mess up the hug. It should know if it is really something connected to the inner workings of reality instead of being a tulpa of some nomads that hated life.
>>738757459Hyetta and Shabriri are the same person.
>>738757526No. They aren't. >. It should know if it is really something connected to the inner workings of reality instead of being a tulpa of some nomads that hated life.That's an interesting argument but maybe it knows eventually somebody WILL do it right. It's not a tulpa either and you have zerto reason to believe that. the DLC HEAVILY implies the fingers turned up in Midra's boss room/manse too.
>>738756902I got the impression that Frenzy Flame manifests in Elden Ring predominantly through abject despair and despondency rather than simply madness. The Frenzy Flame appears to contravene the Golden Order/Greater Will/Marika etc. by being a manifestation of a lack of a will to live. Which is kind of symbolised in the black hole symbology to the Greater Will's sun.Actually, I think its only the dubious agents propagating it like Shabriri and Nanaya that seem to be 'maddened'.
>>738756730The christian trinity or the hindu one could explain it better. Gender split from the one creator (male or genderless), the son is the result of this union representing both the creator father and the son (first adam), while the female half (consort/created half or mother) is needed to perpetuate the cycle.
>>738757613Hyetta is Irina and Shabriri is capable of possessing the deceased through unknown means.
>>738757613>It's not a tulpa either and you have zerto reason to believe that.The game tells you the merchants kvetched into the void while in their living grave and that made the 3 fingers. That is then used to show you how people on the planet create these alien constructs thru their faith/magic duality that fuels everything. The 3 fingers happening to reflect the mental state of those that made it isn't an accident anon. You literally have no clue how any of this works.
>>738757508Oh sorry, it's not even fucking Latin to begin with, it means celestial btw, Celestial Hand.
>>738757773google 'celes meaning' man, this shit isn't hard.
>>738757731The merchanst did not make the 3 fingers, the reason for that is quite simple:3 + 2 = 5
>>738750219You got it the other way around. None of Fromtards game come even close to the lore and writings of TES. FFS Miyazaki has yet to create his own made-up language and tied it to the metaphysical concept of the game world. All fromtoddler do is>hurr durr boss is named poo poo doo doo?>dat is similar to the word poo in the english language invented by the Indus Valley civ hurr durr>anyway look at this item description with the blandest dry writing with no sophisticated prose whatsoeverRetarded and stale is what I describe From's writing. I've played indie roguelikes that have much better writing than it.
>>738757803Yeah, celestial.
>>738748976She tanked that.
>>738757687I don't believe Hyetta is Irina. And even if that's so, the ritual of grape consumption was a necessity. To give her true fingerprint maiden powers. And even if the Three Fiungers are just Metyr's edgelord nihilist child, he's still a cosmic antenna being who can connect to the divine beyond our reach>>738757731No. It beckoned them. >they chanted a curse of despair, and summoned the flame of frenzy.
>>738757631He is the heat death of the universe, crating a new one by destroying it.
>>738757839which means sky.
>>738757880>I don't believe Hyetta is Irina.Hyetta only appears after Irina disappears.Irina is a blind woman, where could she possibly have gone?
>>738757836ER is just japanese TES. Intentionally so. Same cosmological makeup of reality, same dragon break that fucks time up, same end goal of personal apotheosis to escape the endless fighting, same fractal breakup of the true godhead into multitudes of 'gods,' same message of failing so the next group won't fail (vivec and marika both intentionally fail in a way that reveals how one can fail). The parallels are solid across the board. They are very different games to play but they are expressing identical opinions on things.
>>738757836So go to the tes general?
>>738757980I know the connection. I don't particularly buy it. Quest triggers in a fromsoft game is the weakest lore argument I could think of. And again: Who's riding the meat doesn't matter. The meat needed special food to read the fingerscript.
>>738757946Sky doesn't really entail divine or cosmic like celestial, celes is literally celestial.
>>738757836I love skyrim toolet's go kill some draugr, anonso deep and well written, I wanna do more radiant quests
>>738758002You make it seem like tes is original itself. The morrowind writer clearly took from irl religions and occultism like thelema.
>>738758053Yes it does. You're stupid and ESL. Sky/Heaven overlap heavily in english. Crawl back into the rapehole you were shat out into and leave the english internet alone.
>>738758053"celestial" refers to "pertaining to the firmament", which is a very specific nuance of meaning
>>738758139TES is decidedly original. It pulls from a bunch of irl sources for ideas like ER does but both games make their own setting out of the ideas.
>>738756998Is it? The people going mad in the short stories have unfulfilling and empty lives, while there are also stories about people just being at peace with themselves and being completely fine, like some disgusting sexhaving normgroids towards the end of the book, but also one about some random hobo with a cat. Those who turn to Frenzy are those who have lost all meaning, like the merchants and Irina's father.>>738757631The lack of will and order is chaos.
>>738757836>all that copelmfao you're just an elder scrolls fag STILL mad that dark souls utterly mogged skyrim and got an entire genre named after it, while all skyrim is remembered for is jokes about how it got 6 billion ports and remasters
>>738757836I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
>>738758152Celestial has its roots in french, it's barely English.
>>738750583If all the elves need to do to return to Et’Ada is break down reality and linear time, then it becomes a real possibility that they can go back to those times. Time is represented by Akatosh, the dragon god of time, which is both figurative and literal. He went mad and broke himself into pieces when Lorkhan created Nirn and the concept of linear time. Ergo, destroy Nirn, frees the dragon to fly in any direction it chooses, and thus the flow of time can go in any direction instead of just forward.
>>738758465English uses a shitton of french words. You're stupid. We literally refer to things that fly or fall from the sky as "of the heavens" or "heavenly" if we wanna be flowery and gay. Celestial basically is just "sky [stars version]"Shut.Your. Raped. Brown. Mouth.
>>738758570Sky [stars version] sounds better for an alien god
>>738753380>basic literacyNot my /v/.
>>738742109every single japanese story ends with one of 3 thingsgodaliensgod who is an alien
>>738758512It doesn't actually work that way though. The aldmeri don't even know what it is like to be an et'ada spirit, they just want to return to that time because men didn't exist. It's just copes. Breaking all the towers hasn't shown to actually do anything. It is akin to Yakubinites wanting Yakub to come back because he will enslave all the whites out of a cope.
>>738758635It's okay, part of literacy is learning how to write and read and reciprocate the two.Sometimes we feel jaded if we aren't understood because all we can do is write. Never contextualizing our problems to the actual feelings we desire the most.
>>738758652You forgot old classmate that turned serial killer because he was ugly.Who then reveals he is god.
>>738758652based
>>738758652What about cosmic holism?
>>738758719Faggot
>>738758881But it's not your fault that something is wrong with me?What do you stand to gain by being flexible about your sexual orientation?
>>738758298Cope and not an argument. Skyrim and Morrowind are still being played and discussed while the whole DS series is effectively dead. Also, the whole genre originated with Severance:BoD, not DeS.
>>738758719>reddit spacing>namefagKill yourself.
>>738758926>Skyrim and Morrowind are still being played and discussedkek
>>738758976I'm not the one blithely calling randos fag. Maybe it's not my turn to flirt with you or something.
>>738742109I mean, yeah, didn't you fight Astel?
>>738758926ER will be discussed for years like that too because both series are talking about the same thing behind all the gameplay.
>>738758780>cosmicthats an ayy
>>738759046>blithelyYou don't know what that word means because I sincerely think you are a faggot for using a name and have considered it thoroughly.
>>738759664>You don't know what that word meansYet he used it correctly, which probably means he knows what it means. You gotta learn how to actually troll bro. Make fun of him for being a passholder instead.
>>738758926I like both but the two games came out in the same year but one created a legacy while the other didn't... Dark souls basically created a new genre or if you wanna be turbo pedantic popularised a genre and got immortalised via being the namesake of said genre. Skyrim didn't.
>>738752827Heh
>>738759786>>738759664Being passive aggressive is a sign that you don't want to actually confront people.Telling someone that their word usage opens up all kinds of critical failures is a sign you don't want to confront people. Lack of confrontational awareness is a sure symptom you'd rather be disagreeable than confrontational.
Every single thing in this game leads to a dead end I feel, and not for good reasons.
>>738759803>Skyrim didn't.Because it is a latter entry in a genre they did create. Soulslikes and Bethesda games are both their own genre. Ironically, everyone that tries to make a bethesda style game can't do it. People can make soulslikes even if they are all shit, but everyone trying to make an honest to god bethesda game has to compromise their vision heavily and then end up not making a bethesda game because it is too hard. >>738759891Saucy, I love you. Don't take me giving pointers to others as me not loving you. You can weather anything an anon throws at you. Tripfags/namefags/pass holders are mostly shit but you've never been an issue. You know what you are doing not hiding the pass, you are playing the passive aggressive game too, be real here.
>>738759891Your posturing is pathetic.
>>738759940The dlc goes hard into quality shenanigans and the lore tells you to be a quality person with even distribution instead of going all in on 1 thing. The gameplay mirrors the messaging in the lore. If you feel like nothing leads anywhere then you didn't get the message the game was telling you.
>>738760046It's normal to let people air their anger out, but not if they're gonna passively explode, like some sort of ticking time bomb. :(
>>738759786>Blithely is an adverb describing an action done in a casually cheerful, carefree, or heedless manner, often without showing worry or concern, even when appropriate.Nope, I was dead serious when I called him a faggot, nothing blithe about it>Sometimes we feel jaded if we aren't understood because all we can do is write. Never contextualizing our problems to the actual feelings we desire the most.FAGGOT
>>738760178Saying he doesn't fear gays by proxy triggered you this hard?
>Naruto retconned chakra to come from aliens>Dragon Ball is all about aliens>One Piece is obviously going to do the aliens tropewhy do nips love to insert ayys in their media?
>>738760386They have a lot of ancient folklore about aliens visiting them.
>>738760085I understand it I've just heard the japanese recycle reincarnation start the world over again thing 500 times
>>738760736This game is barely japanese anon. If you were to put all the irl philosophers this game bases its worldview on you might not even get to list a single jap. Its all germans and french and gauls and celts.
>>738748212Bloodborne is the best IMO, it feels like a good cross-over between depth and being actually mostly complete. Elden Ring has a lot of depth to it, but is clearly unfinished.
>>738748519You just gotta get jiggly with it.
Playing Bloodborne for the first time right now, got about halfway through. The game somehow manages to be even more confusing and convoluted than any of the other games, was basically forced to look shit up constantly but am still having a blast. It sort of ruins dark souls 3 for me because you can clearly see which game was made out of passion and which game was made because they had to make it.
>>738761082BB is the most incomplete game from has done since the ps3 era. The game is so unfinished the story stops it its tracks to tell you to go grind chalice dungeons lol.
>>738761295The only obviously incomplete thing is the second moon presence fight in the Chalice Dungeons that got cut. But that getting cut didn't really change anything or leave a gaping hole in the story. The game stopping to tell you to check out the chalices isn't a sign of being unfinished. What are you even talking about?
>>738761295And yet it's still the best game.
>>738761594I found it okay at best, I didn't like how badly it ran and the filmic visual effects to cover up how bad it ran. I think ER is their best work. AC6 is close by dint of feeling like something else entirely. AC6 feels like a completely different studio made it.
>>738748976>Godfrey says "I command thee, kneel!">Metyr resents kneeling/kowtowingWHAT IS THE CONNECTION
>No enchanted stone mechs to pilot>Just a gay horse where you mash a gallop buttonNo excuse for this.
>>738761295Those Chalice Dungeons honestly have to be why i never got invested in Bloodborne's story at first. Fuck that game for teleporting me to some random ass dungeon in bumfuck knows where while I'm in the middle of my fucking hunt.
>>738761884They are both cromulent disciples of the Zanzibart Coalition.
>>738761884Illiteracy must be such a frustrating existence
>>738761884Its almost like becoming a supplicant robs you of your own agency or agenda or something. Better not think about that, ponder upon this glintstone for me.
>>738760483such as?
>>738761295Quality bait, very nice.
>>738748976>You quite literally receive her head as a weapon.No you don't, you ask Enia to create a copy of her head out of her remembrance. That's why it looks so much smaller on your hands than on her body.
>>738762539I liked the game, it just feels like it falls apart when the chalice dungeons become mandatory for a while. >>738762483A lot of the women from the moon are pretty much aliens in their folklore, there's also a story about a woman with weird skin that washed ashore in a closed coracle and a town took her in, she spoke a foreign language and knew foreign medicine. Some think the Dogu are a reference to something akin to aliens.All of it is probably borderline neolithic ainu encountering a more advanced human society.
>>738761594Nah.Elden Ring+Expansion is their best overall game, followed by Sekiro.Bloodborne is a distant third. The game's central thematic conceit, heedless grisly Victorian medicinal practices providing insight into eldritch higher realms of consciousness and occult entities that serve in equal part as anatomical/psychological metaphor is very compelling and poetic, more so when you read about it on the relevant wikipage, but the game itself is just surprisingly insubstantial. There's hardly any major named NPC's to string together a coherent set of events or provide character to the areas, the game's area design is repetitive, the areas especially later on suck balls alongside half the bosses etc. I even loathed the Forbidden Forest. Shit sucked.Always felt like Bloodborne's one of those particular games where people hyper-focus on the few spectacular parts like Orphan and Ludwig and the overall aesthetic appeal of the game's lavish skyboxes set against oppressive black spires while ignoring much of the actual quality of the meat and potatoes game content.
>>738762727>when the chalice dungeons become mandatorythey never are mandatory
>>738762727Bloodborne falls apart after the Cathedral WardThe Chalice Dungeons are merely incidental to this decline in overall quality.
>>738763004I never knew that on my first and only playthrough. Knowing this only makes me angrier.
>>738763004Not mandatory but you can't get all the cheevos if you don't do them. Everything about the pthumerians will be left unfinished if you don't do them. That is probably what he's alluding to. To get the full picture of the game you need to go hang out in proc-genned copy pasted content when the rest of the game is known for how lovingly crafted every single element and asset is. This is an universal complaint I see for the game when people are actually willing to say the game isn't perfect. It is a big part of why people say it feels incomplete.
>>738763324>you can't get all the cheevos if you don't do themnobody could possibly give a shit about this
>>738763384The achievements are just an external tracker of content. Ignore the achievement itself and look at what it represents. If you don't want to play the chalice dungeons you have to willingly accept not playing the full game. I like the game and want to play it so I play more and more of it, then doing so makes me not like the game as much because the content isn't good in that area. You can see the tonal divide between me wanting to seek out more of the game I like but that in turn making me like the game less because I find the content hollow yes? You can understand how this would make someone say the game isn't the best right?
Is it bad that I actually thought the shabriri grapes were actual grapes that so happened to look like yes?
>>738750137My headcanon is it's the dead 2 fingers ranni sits in front of
>>738763539That is what they are. Try one!
The hornsent believed spirits resided in all things (shintoism) and the game tells you they are the most degenerate and debased people to ever exist. They get rolled by a fantasy equivalent of the roman legions pogroming them.
>>738763539Nah man, I heard they're great for your blood sugar.
>>738763324Anyone who believes Bloodborne is a perfect game is retarded regardless simply because of the mere existence of Rom, Micolash, Celestial Emissary, The One Reborn, and the Hemwick Witches, but I don't think chalices have ever been the leading argument as to Bloodborne's unfinished state. Rather the clear signs of content being shuffled around/renamed in the development stages (something to do with Ebrietas idk), the latter-half areas of the game being strung through dodgy nightmare portals, extremely lore-relevant areas Byrgenwerth and the Upper Cathedral Ward being miniscule and in UCW's case being full of reused assets, Cainhurst being underutilised etc. Seems diabolically obvious to me as well that some of the DLC content was intended for the base game, given the clocktower's prominence (it's even on the front cover).
>>738748976You get the hair of a bunch of bosses, too. Do you think you literally scalped them?
>>738763796I'd agree but I've also met weirdos who are in love with the victorian era in general and don't care about real faults as long as it has the set dressing they love. I like gothic literature too, I read turn of the century novellas, but I'm realistic about my interests. I cringe in my mind when I get to "On Cetaceans" every time I reread Moby Dick. Some people cannot unmarry their perception with their interest sometimes. If you've been in these threads before you know there is a guy that argues about ER lore from the pov of an unironic golden order fundamentalist, those types can't handle any sort of criticism of a thing, they are too engrossed in it. I'm obsessed with ER, but I'm obsessed as a 21st century 1st worlder playing a video game.
>>738763829Yes.
>>738743571In E33 there is a creature who also has a sort of pincher and void ball. Anyone know if there is some sort of literary/symbolic shit about pinchers + void ball, or is it just coincidence in designs?
Elden Ring lore is so lame when compared to Dark Souls and BB.
>>738764148Didn't play that game wouldn't be able to help you sorry.
>>738743223>She doesn't dieYou can literally use her head as a weapon
>>738764301See >>738762660
>>738764301She also turns to dust like every other boss you kill, and that happens before her microcosm does anything. She simply dies.
>>738764434Unless you have verifiable proof that you are Miyazaki himself, how can you possible prove that? Checkmate nignog. You can't even trust what the game itself tells you. For all we know, the game's not even called Elden Ring and Miyazaki's just twiddling his thumbs with a wry smirk, shaking his head knowingly.
>>738764653I played elden ring. I also posted a screenshot of the game showing Metyr dying and turning to dust while the microcosm is still just chilling on her tail in this thread.
>>738746906>the point of games is to interact in a virtual world, decoding the story>the point of games>THE POINTnot beating the "pretentious" allegations, if only due to the rampant fanboyismloremonger, get a fucking grip, exalting impersonal descriptions and LOL EVERYONE DIES plotlines as the pinnacle of narrative design is hardly any better than cocksucking kojimbo cutscenesgo read a CYOA (the /tg/ kind) at least, those don't pretend to be anything other than an exercise in imagination
>>738752635Tiphret does kinda work for Godrick because his character is about having a rune that is too good for him to deserve.
>>738764781Every FS has the same central message - stop listening to others and do what you want.When every game is telling you the same thing over and over you can easily surmise that it is intentional and that might be the point to the games.
>>738745489retard-bro...
>>738764865>stop listening to others and do what you wantBut what if they didn't beat the game?
>>738753798FTH/INT, if you just cheat in the Metyr staff, is genuinely a good time.
Sometimes when I read these lore discussions, I can't tell if the game is genuinely deep, or it's just unmedicated schizophrenics making massive reaches based on a two sentence description that ends in "FORGIVE ME MARIKA"
>>738765042both
>>738765042It is genuinely deep. Anons can bicker back and forth on Malenia's character because it is actually deep af. It being as deep as it is is probably why the people that shit on the story shit on it, it filtered them or made them feel inadequate.
>>738764865>he "found" the central messagegotcha, you are the sort of person who fundamentally doesn't understand that fiction exists beyond pure didactismmy main issue is not even the fromsoft rollsouls formula, but people like you who assert grand claims about their stitched-together plots which are deliberately made easily ignorableadmirable, in some respect, to have an opt-in sort of story, but now we get morons who claim half-imagined delusions is the best writing there is
>>738765162I simply don't care anon. You can be a petulant ingrate, it doesn't reflect on me at all.
>>738749159No kiddingThe Fingers have been waiting for their instructions from Metyr for however the fuck long, and Metyr herself has been waiting for the GW to message her back, and until that happens, nothing else is ever gonna happen. Elden Ring is broke, pool's closed, everybody fuck off and go insane because Marika was so afraid of death that she physically removed it from the laws of reality. Everybody gets to live forever in a world where all forward progress is based entirely on receiving instructions from an deity which hasn't said SHIT in centuries. Thanks for playing.
>>738765042The game is taking philosophy from the last 200 years wholesale and adding them to the game, if you think its unmedicated schizobabble then you don't know the historical reference it is pulled from. Everyone and their mom can see the GO is a parallel to rome. That part is never argued because it is essentially pop culture to a man in the modern age at this point. The game goes deeper and deeper from there in a logical way if you understand what it is referencing.
>>738765238We also fight her after someone else cut her the fuck up with a dagger in the past. Metyr lived a hard life.
>>738765203then you should probably stop replyingunless you're the sort of petulant child who can't stop unless he has the last word
>>738765042Its that deep but doesn't care at all if you get it or not.
>>738765342>>738766135not that anon but what is the essential philosophical reading you need for ER?
>>738753798>>738765020Seconding INT/FAIThe INT/FAI spells are soooooo fucking strong and fun. There's so many spells that are "conjure a weapon" too so you get varied playstyles and paces if you.
>>738766287
>>738755454It was somewhat of an error with DS1 to make every other Undead a foreigner that moved into Lordran recently because basically none of them could tell you anything about the world organically. The best you got was Laurentius and Izalith's pyromancy. Elden Ring has its own obvious NPC issues, but that most of them were more aware of the setting than you were and could organically share interesting information about it, was a good move.
>>738742109i still don't understand anything about elden ring except astel and the fallingstar beasts being aliens who arrived through starfall from space
>>738766287You don't need to read philsophy. Just try to look at the syncretic overlaps between the surface/mid level of all religions referenced. Elden Ring is:>Norse Pagan>Greek Pagan>Gnostic Christian>Hermetic Gnostic>Kabbalahist JewishAnd maybe more. But you don't need ot be an expert. It draws on all the "male/female" and "world/life/energytree" as well as metacosmic narratives about a tiered cosmos with various levels of powers. >>738766593>>738766593Sword magic fun.
>>738766797>>738766690These posts have the same points but one is autistic for people who literally want to engage in hardcore esoteric mysticism/philosophy on the basis of wanting to understand a videogame more. Both are valid of course but don't get too pseudpilled unless you're serious about it and come out to being knowledgepilled.
>>738765042Syncromysticism is an apt term to describe it.>Coined by Jake Kotze in 2006, Synchromysticism is a portmanteau of synchronicity and mysticism. It is “the art of realizing meaningful coincidences in the seemingly mundane with mystical or esoteric significiance.”>Synchromysticism, as the union of synchronicity and mysticism, is thus the sense of interconnectedness and oneness with reality that comes from a heightened and enhanced awareness of synchronicity. A form of "postmodern animism", Horsley argues that synchromysticism "underlines a common theme beneath three apparently disparate areas: that of the religious quest for meaning or 'signs,' the shamanic/animistic relationship with Nature, and the schizophrenic's inability to distinguish between reality and fantasy."
>>738762997I do agree that the story of Bloodborne is a lot more interesting than the gameplay of Bloodborne.
>>738766880That is kind of the boon of a forum, we all come together to give a more complete picture than our singular selves can show.
>>738765042
>>738743223>>738756405why would kojima despise miyazaki?
>>738766287If you aren't into this topic organically (you aren't since you need us to tell you) try the youtube channel Story Crow. The guy is kind of a nutter but he specializes in stories of the past for british and celtic cultures. A lot of the folktales he tells are straight up used in Elden Ring's mythology.
>>738766965of course but I'd hate for some nigger to spew about Kant when trying to pwn me about his headcanon.
>>738744721kill any albinaurics today, gideon?
>>738766287It really ain't that deep like these guys are on. Its the same story about the Gods removing death from the world because of their own anxieties and its your job to seek your will to power to fix it. Here's the one piece of literature that is actually directly referenced in the game. >https://elizabethandrama.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Looking-Glass-for-London-Annotated.pdfIts where Radagon comes from.
>>738766797The problem is most fanboys are pretty ignorant to basic religions and tend to only know anime and comic book slop, so what they see as a nothingburger most times, we see a whole obvious parallels.
>>738767124Kant is a boring read, you don't need to read all of his works to get what ER uses. He isn't even used much in ER but Schopenhauer is and Schopenhauer concerned himself with refuting Kant a lot so knowing one informs on the other. >>738767162The tree of Erd gotta be littered with the silver blood of dead sex dolls.
>>738750117Is this the final form of autism
>>738767193It's rough. I hate when people try to treat the cosmology and anything but gnostic given how The One Great/Formless Mother/Greater will overlap to perfectly with Timeless King/Sofia/Yaldaboath
>>738767162You've killed more than he ever did.
>>738767168>Here's the one piece of literature that is actually directly referenced in the game.The Golden Order Principia is a pretty obvious reference to the Principia Naturalis Principia Mathematica.
>>738767218Neitzsche"s eternal return could help simply explain most of the soulsborne games.
>>738767295It is. But the actual text isn't referenced. Whereas I'm pretty sure that Radagon's character is just straight ripped from the above.
>>738767316He's kind of a tough sell to modern people since he's become a meme but yeah. Neitzsche's "even empathy in excess is a pathology" stuff describes what is happening in ER pretty well.
>>738748525>Dextera domini/dei>Dextera dei>Dexteri tyno wonder dex is always OP, god is a dexfag
>>738767168That's obviously a grr martin input than miyazaki. Pretty sure martin came up with all the names.
>>738767168I know you'll hate me for it but some of William Blake's stuff is dropped into ER as is. Granted he was doing picture books for himself but its there.
>>738767218Yeah sure I'm just saying.
>>738766287philosophy will come on its own as you read up on other things since its all interwoven, seek mythology instead. Here is a really basic oneER>Horah Loux defeats the giants of the fell eyeMythology>Lugh (pronounced same as Loux) defeats the formorian giant leader Balor the Evil Eye
>>738748976>t. thinks the remembrance is the literal corpse of the boss
>>738767959You get remembrances from killing bosses right?
>>738767959all the games have the extra little bullshit but I mean, that's what it is though. It says right there it's wielded as a weapon without modification. There's video game mechanic abstractions to everything.
>>738767721I don't think it is that deep because we know the Hoarah Loux name was shuffled around at least once. Originally that was Goldmask's real name.
>>738768003Yeah, and you can eat them for massive amounts of runes like you can from any other thing that dies and drops runes. >>738768034You can see why they changed it to the guy that does the same thing as they mythological Lugh right?
>>738768034It goes deeper, Lugh also kills some guy that had sex with his wife. Guess what Horah Loux is about to do when you encounter him in the game. Lugh is also the progenitor of the Heiros Gamos - the divine marriage.They lifted the mythology straight up and gave it to a guy that has the same pronunciation in his name.
>>738768094>>738768223Lugh also had 2 sons, one very famous and one not so famous. The famous one is renowned for defending his city against an entire army. Sounds kind of like Morgott being Horah's son, and his big claim to fame is defending Leyndell against Radahn's army. Morgott has a less famous brother. You wouldn't be remise if you described Morgott as the GO's hound.
>>738748519>god devouring serpent just eats you and you become a mindless capcom drone devouring whatever slop remake they release for all eternity. worse than death Kekd
>anons stretching their minds coming up with entire lore reasons for every possible event and character>in reality, the devs just picked out some cool names and slapped them onto a magical worldhappens every time, people massively over analyze and recognise patterns the devs and writers never even intended until they're talking about things completely unrelated to the game
>anons stretching their imaginations coming up with entire far fetched lore reasons for every possible event and character>in reality, the devs just picked out some cool names and slapped them onto a magical worldhappens every time, people massively over analyze and recognise patterns the devs and writers never even intended until they're talking about things completely unrelated to the game
>>738768990>>738769035Poor guy can't into mythology.
Well I want to say as someone who was initially disappointed with Elden Ring from a lore/story perspective because I found it too convoluted and spread out, you guys have made me reconsider writing off the game and its lore and maybe at some point wanting to dive back into it.
>>738769502You'll still be disappointed diving back into it because regardless of how many references it can shove in to things the broader topics are either still too vague to feel good to theorycraft about or just less interesting than "but who was Velka?" and other Dark Souls lore questions that are still interesting mysteries.
>>738768990As long as they're having fun with it.
>>738768990>>738769035Imagine not having pattern recognition lol.
>>738770024Eh the only Elden Ring question I felt the game didn't address is Ranni's ending. Everything else seems pretty straightforward after the DLC with only a little bit of headcanon necessry. The game's entire lore can be summed up as a long game of telephone regarding the world's religion and a bunch of outer gods meddling to twist the interpretation in their favor just because they think its funny or something.You can claim that the lore doesn't jump out at you unless you go looking for it, but I don't think the common meme that Miyazaki just throws random shit at the wall is true. The Hornsent lore fits so nicely into the timeline and explains all of Marika's actions after becoming a god that I have to imagine it was always planned.
>>738770682I think the Hornsent were mostly created based on the scraps left over when Fromsoft dropped most of the Nox plotlines that would have explained Marika's backstory in the original game.
>>738770682For me, the bigger problem is that you can 'betray' Melina by becoming part of the frenzy flame, From gives you the ability to sever their connection to you, and yet Melina stays gone forever, and that isn't ever addressed, even in the DLC. SotE would have been a great chance to flesh out her character a little more, have her talk about her mother, Messmer, and his crusade against the hornsent. Such a waste of a great design.
not going to read the thread but it's incredibly obvious that whoever wrote the scenario / setting was just researching western mysticismnot a bad thing btw it's a very interesting idea for a setting
>>738772185Theres nothing to expand on. Shes just another part of Marika that is meant to stand in for Marika as your vessel. Marika is alive through her and burns down the tree, shes continuing what she started, acting as her will. Her, gloam eyed and Marika are the same person.
>>738773902Like the triple goddesses throughout myth, especially celtic ones.
>>738773902I'm talking about from a character perspective, loremonkey.
>>738764301That’s not how remembrances work. You can see Rennala’s real staff in the Academy of Raya Lucaria before the fight with the Red Wolf, and you get her remembrance from just beating an illusion of her conjured by Ranni.
>>738770682>just because they think its funnyIt's because they want the Elden Ring. Who shapes the Elden Ring controls reality.
Miyazaki copied HP Lovecraft for Bloodborne and thought it was the most clever fucking thing he's ever done. So naturally he did it three more times in Elden Ring
>>738774552>cosmic horror in fantasy settingdoes this ideal ever not looking like a retard
>>738774095That's what fanfic and fanart is made fanboy. You liked her design and want to get to know her more as if shes real.
>>738774832Made for*
>>738744998Ayy lmao is older than you'll ever be stupid ESL cunt. Drown yourself in a sea of shit.
>>738774552Inspired by =/= copiedLovecraft wrote about a billion things and encouraged others to add to his mythos.
>>738743875Who gives a shit about modern scientific understanding of celestial bodies in context of ER lore? In real life, stars and comets don't contain these fuckers inside of them.
>>738744998you sound frustrated
>>738775208Lovecraft created exaggerated caricatures of Balvatsky and Theosophic ideas, taking a lot from the spiritualist and occult movement at the timr. People take it as original works when its mostly him just parodying occult concepts that were popular at the time. Context is king as they say. He writes about this in letters btw so there's no speculation here.
>>738744912>>738749838The Fingercreepers thing feels like a retcon.They have a completely different design from Metyr and the Two/Three Fingers.
>>738742109because she's not as powerful as a god
>>738743440I miss being 15
>>738775680>Lovecraft wrote caricatures of what was in vogue at his time like every other fiction writer everHow is that bad?
>>738776281Never said it was?
>>738746960Tarnished Archaeologist said it might be based on the idea in some Renaissance paintings that had the hand of God literally reaching into the scene from out of frame. I like this idea. They're fingers because they are the reaching, prodding digits of an outer outer god trying to make contact with a civilization of beings unlike itself.
>>738765042It's pretty much complete schizobabble, don't pay it any mind if you don't care yourself. There's no concrete conclusions to be had and everyone has their own headcanon. Elden Ring lore is mostly just fanfiction.
>>738774552>for bloodborneDude, your Old One?Dude, your oldmonk/xanthous set?Dude, your chaos eaters?Dude, your Sullyvahn beasts?Lovecraft has always been one of big Miyazaki's influences, along with Berzerk, MTG and GRRM.
>>738742109>ayy lmaosits allegorical, the fingers are the priest class to the golden order/divine will (abrahamic RACIAL ALIENS) who corrupt and ultimately replace the crucible (the primordial truth/paganism)
>>738776451But they're trying to reach god, not god reaching down.
>>738775520>he doesn't know stars are just eggs
>>738776549What are archons, demiurges (false gods) and demigods?
>>738776708Enemy designs in RPGs.
>>738750685I don't think the great runes actually correspond to the sefirot, but you have to admit that runes are literally just Jewish letters of power.
>>738743440The inplication of themes is not the usage of themes. Me doing raddom hand signs is not indicative that im trying to communicate esoteric architecture. Souls tricks midwits into thinking it has a narrative by throwing themed enemies who spout random passages at you before you read some random paragrpah of exposition about a random thing on a weapon you find 10 minutes afterwards.Thats not a narrative thats loosely connected creative writing. The key evidence is that nobody can point to where any major facet of the events revealed without making something up.
>>738777210It's useless, anon. You are trying to reason with essentially religious zealots.
what's the most powerful stat lore-wise, INT, FTH or ARC?
>>738755946in german it's "der Mond" (male) and "die Sonne" (female)
>>738770682The problem with Elden Ring is that the setup has a bunch of people still with power doing things and yet nothing you do makes a difference. That's the whole, total problem with it as a game. Dark Souls avoided a lot of this by really having most people with any power completely fucking gone, or fading in power dramatically, or they have an obligation to do something and not team up with you. ER has several bosses capable of reason and with enough power to be directing and doing things in the world but you have no interaction with them. Hey, what's up Melania, thought I'd tell you about your children and also where Mique- oh okay. Guess we just fight and there's nothing else.Oh hey Ranni, I met your mom. Want to tell me anything? No? Just the dialogue you'll give to me even though you're right here, I'm right here, and there's things I could ask you? Dark Souls avoided pretty much all these problems with the way it constructed NPCs and plotlines and Covenants, but Elden Ring feels incredibly forced to keep info from you. Some insanely basic things would get answered with just any of these fuckers who actually know everything saying, well, anything.Likewise the endings of the game are way less interesting than even the binary endings of most Souls games. It's not a huge deal for me, but I would have appreciate if they put a little more effort into making the endings unique this go round. Bloodborne still has the best ending just because you interact with them in interesting ways and their effects are a lot clearer in what they do than any one ending. Alright I guess this is the realm of shit and suffering now, makes sense it's piss filtered, but maybe we could see a glimpse of this world? Anything satisfying? No, okay then. For a world you can explore and interact with more than any other they've made gameplay wise, the lore and story being held at an even further distance feels weirder than ever.
>>738780728the endings being practically non-existent and the music being boring forgettable elevator music crap are the only two valid criticisms to the game. that and the mistranslations but the endings are botched anyways so it doesn't make that much of a difference
>>738780794Nah I think removal of covenants disappoints me more than any of that mechanically, but it is definitely quite sad their biggest game yet has probably the weakest endingsI think to put my post most concisely, it's that the removal of information about the world in Elden Ring feels forced in a way prior games didn't. I love the "piece together an incomplete story" shtick of these games, it's so much fun, but Elden Ring feels like they tried too hard to cut things out and achieve vagueness rather than it being organic.
>>738780728>but maybe we could see a glimpse of this world? Anything satisfying? No, okay then.This is the same as all the previous endings>Can i see this world without the Old One?>Can i see this Age of Dark then?>Can you show me how i will be directing the Hunters then?
>>738781127not really though because pretty much all the prior endings really put the onus on (you) specifically deciding how anything goes, you're the one with all the power in every other ending with everyone else being subservientIn Elden Ring you channel power into other people's vision for things in every ending, they are explicitly goals and understandings NPCs reached, not you the player.
>>738781127fromsoftware are the masters of lazy storytelling>work on an actual substantiative ending while still staying abstract enough for players to immerse themselves in? nah just go all in the abstraction and let players fanfic
>>738781193Those NPCs would've never reached their ending without your interaction.
>>738781279That doesn't do very much to explain the total vision of the terrible turd eater and why omens are so fucking cool to him and just what kind of suffering soup are we making etcEvery other Souls game is immolating yourself or becoming a god-king. Yeah we don't know what the totality of an Age of Dark might look like, but we have plenty to speculate on it and ultimately it doesn't matter because the game still puts a crown on your head and has everyone bow to (you) so you really get to decide on your own meritsThat's vastly different than "this is my vision for what's flawed with the current order. No I won't REALLY tell you what it is. Enjoying the ending narration and a different tint and puzzling over all my dialogue and interactions and trying to decipher my intentions let alone the manifestation of them."
>>738742109we already knew itr was all just aliens before the DLC droppedpeople like you are why there was all that outcry about "media literacy" a few years ago, you people really are supremely dense and unable to figure things out based on clues
>>738742337If I call myself a god, and enough people believe it, then you killed me, then the people who thought I was a god would say you killed a godreligious people are the most mindbroken idiots to ever walk the earth, they're so scared of there not being a big authority figure watching over them to pass judgement
>>7387814124 of the endings give you a crown and sit you on a throne1 ending you are clearly burning the entire world1 ending she tells you "you're my king, let's skedaddle"Doesn't seem any less or more clear than the previous games.
>>738781613and all of them are fulfilling someone else's vision specifically anonI don't know how you don't get the point of their visions being unclear, a solid number of the endings are just "I'll fix it with this guy's vision, whatever it is."The uncertainty of what an "age of dark" may entail is literally nothing to what Ranni's ending may result in, let alone anyone else'sAt least Chaos is very straightforward, but it also shines a spotlight on Melina being terribly implemented and your choices not mattering.
>>738742109reminder that the fingercreeper origin was retconned HARD and with literally ZERO elegance in the DLC
>>738764148Now that you mention it, the two games have a lot of coincidences. Queen Marika causing the Shattering sounds very similar to the Paintress causing the Fracture.
>>738781732
when mass effect does color-swap endings, everyone hates it. but when elden ring does it, it's okay?
>>738781732>>738781769
>>738781732>>738781769how does any of this retcon anything exactly
>>738781710The Age of Fire is Gwyn's visionThe Age of Dark is Kaathe's visionAnd the 3rd ending of DS3 is Londor's vision
>>738746960Who do you think typed out the code or gave the tarnished input with button presses?
>>738775883see>>738781769>>738781818>>738781732
>>738781771Well one was a multi-game long story all about choices mattering and the other is an open world action game with as much story as you care to read. Apples and meatpies.
>>738781831and we know, in the first game alone, far more about what doing either ending will entailOne is the status quo, one is I have all the power and definitely won't go crazy or turn into a humanity or anything haha
>>738781878idk dude i would have liked to see something like fallout new vegas slides at the end to see the fate of the npc's. the game even starts with a slideshow so why not one at the end
>>738748212No, ER has the "coolest" setting. In terms of metaphysics, factions, events and so on. However, narratively speaking, it's an unfocused mess. And, most importantly, it completely fails to convey the player any reason as to why they should care about the Lands Between, the Elden ring and the Elden Throne
>>738755358rebis
>>738748519they're the best faction and it's not even close
>>738782097don't they worship death or something? idk they look stupid with their small heads and big bodies. even if joining them meant you had constant tribal sex idk i'd be into it
>>738750137Manus Celes is the fingers that Ranni slays which also happens to be the excised pussy of Metyr, literally, the ones used to birth the prime line Two Fingers
>>738745995ELABORATE!!! This sounds good.
>>738781915Do you really? Would you have guessed that Linking the Fire would've brought the world to the state it is in in DS3?>>738782002>completely fails to convey the player any reason as to why they should care about the Lands Between, the Elden ring and the Elden ThroneYou are the only one that can save the world? You'll get to rule it afterwards. Is that not reason enough?
>>738782261save lands between? RULE lands between? Game does a great job convincing it should be burnt to hell, both in and out of universe
>>738782261>You are the only one that can save the world?there's no indication that the world outside the LB is having any sort of issue>You'll get to rule it afterwardsWhy would I want to rule the LB? It's a shithole filled with murderhobos that hate me for no reason and demonic/extraterrestrial entities constantly trying to usurp power
>>738782261>Would you have guessed that linking the fire would've brought the world to the stat it is in DS3?It doesn't really matter? You're perpetuating a status quo against the rules of nature. Did I expect the exact events of DS3? Not really. But it's not much of a surprise continually forcing a fading flame to come back to life has problems of its own, no. Neither ending of Dark Souls ever felt like it was a happily ever after ending for the setting in any way.But again, it doesn't really matter, DS3 is its own thing and wrote its own story and resolution. Back in the times before DS1 had any sequels, it wasn't a rare opinion that linking the fire was just perpetuating a doomed world and not an actual fix.
Am I the only one who thought Elden Ring's plot and endings were incredibly straightforward and easy to understand? It's a basic, universally applicable mythic human narrative structure: a tragedy occurs and breaks the order of the world; a hero must arise and undergo a gruelling journey to put things back together. Then you get the ending choices: restore the world order with your own values and ideals added in (Elden Lord), remove the world order (Ranni), or melt everything back together into kabbalistic primordial sludge (Frenzy). It's simple and it works well as a structure for an action RPG. Where it gets interesting is when you start to explore all the various ideas, concepts, subplots, and historical references which branch off from this core structure, and you can indeed get lost in endless rabbit holes here. But none of this stuff is really integral to the overall plot, and the degree to which you engage with it is entirely up to you.
>>738782160>don't they worship death or somethingthey worship the cycle of soul reincarnation. It's basically what the Erdtree does, but his happens through the Ancestor Spirits instead
>>738742109very erotic design
>>738742109Shadow of the Erdtree is shit therefore not canon
>>738782421yeah, it's obvious, but it's done so terribly and so pretentiously that it drives us crazy
>>738782421ranni's ending was butchered in translation and even in full context with proper understanding is still a big question of well what the fuck's it actually mean in any detail? it's cool what you do there at least.I noticed you only mentioned three endings though, ignoring the others which exist to impose wills upon the world which are not your own, and that even in the Elden Lord ending there are a lot of questions about what the fuck you're really doing and whether other powers still exist in any fashion or not or what's truly granting you power at this point
>>738782350How so?>>738782395You are stronger than anything else. You are immortal. You hold the keys to the shape of the world. No one can really challenge you.
>>738782682Are you?You slayed the Elden Beast. Do the Two Fingers hold any sway still? Is there a greater will you're a slave to?What does Ranni killing the Two Fingers matter? Being dead or alive, it makes no impact on the world for (you). But does it? Who can fucking say?
>>738748519>>god devouring serpent just eats you and you become a mindless capcom drone devouring whatever slop remake they release for all eternity. worse than death
fuck ALL outer gods. total outer god death.
One of the worst parts of Elden Ring's NPC and ending questlines is that all of them are achievable in a single playthrough, thus none of them are at reasonable odds with each other or interact with anything. This makes them feel like they aren't really part of the world. Ranni having no dialogue about her mother based on your interactions, for instance. Melina just fucking off if you get the frenzy flame and don't burn her then cure yourself of it. Ranni has no input whatsoever on Rykard either, as another oddity of things that probably should have been. Literally no one gives a single fuck about anything except their very direct plot even though they should probably have some interaction or dialogue about other events you do. The game world is populated with entities with motives, but you can do nothing with them nor do they react to or get influenced by anything you do. It feels very half-assed in a way no other game does.
>>738783072because coding that all in would require actual effort, and we can't expect that from fromsoft
>>738783072yeah i think it's almost sanitary. like they deliberately avoided having anything too compelling so that it doesn't bog down the main focus of the plot for being lord. at the expense of having an intimate view of their real presence.
>>738783171they literally cut out the peak Kale questline and replaced it with most shit garbage hyetta one
>>738783159They've done some interesting interactions before. The entire Sif cutscene changing based on doing the DLC for instance, but even to a more minor degree the entire Dark Souls 1 dialogues involving Petrus, Rhea and Lautrec and Patches had more interconnectivity depending on what you'd seen and experienced then the entirety of Elden Ring.
>a tribe of merchants serve a god that wants to burn the world>the god is named after a demon from jewish mythologyWhat the hell did Mitsubishi mean by this?
>>738744998>zoomer memethis meme is older than you zoomer fagitlurk moar
>>738749159same as marika, weird.
>>738783242Hyetta's questline is cool thoughKale's questline was also coolThey both should have existed and portrayed different sides of the three fingers and what draws people to them
>>738782520Perhaps Fromsoft games simply aren't your thing? It's okay to have preferences you know.>>738782559Your problem may be that you get lost in minutiae too much. Try to condense the phenomena down to their overarching themes or concepts instead. The concept of Ranni's character (and the Carians as a whole), her questline, and her ending is that of personal transcendence. This is unambiguously spelled out as well; you literally end up leaving the Lands Between in her ending.A story is ultimately a template through which the author expresses larger ideas, and further a mirror held up to our own psyche. The ways in which we respond to the ideas presented in it reveals much about ourselves. This is the really interesting part to me.
>>738782760Yes, i am.The GW never enslaved anyone. It never forces anyone to do anything.If you finished Ranni's quest, all the Two Fingers are dead.
>>738760012I haven't played a Bethesda game since fallout 3 and I couldn't even finish it. Bethesda is the most incompetent dev in existence with a shitty, very outdated engine. I tried starting Skyrim several times but could not play beyond the first couple of fights because it sucks so much ass.> inb4 use modsyeah I even tried that but what a pathetic display for a game/studio that the games are only playable or enjoyable after you fix it with content the community created.Fuck you Todd
>>738742337We don't actually kill her, just severely weakened her followed by black hole teleport to where the fuck ever she went.
sex with ALL outer gods. total outer god lust.
>>738783596They were my thing till shitsouls 3 tho. That was the moment quality design and writing were discarded for aura moments with no substance.
>>738783596>larger ideasthe minutae should intrigue you and carry around till you form the larger idea. You shouldn't be trudging through incomprehensible meaningless minutia trying to guess the overall theme that might have inspired this word diarheaspray. Miyazaki couldn't read and absorb the book properly. This isn't a proper experience to be emulated. When archeology already exists, but his games decidedly aren't archeological enough to cover them with that excuse.
>>738783596It's not about needing tons of minutiae or everything to have insane detail, it's about things needing to feel like they're part of a world. That they actually do occupy this shared reality with other NPCs and their goals and their means to achieve them have an impact. Unfortunately in Elden Ring, virtually all of this is just in the past. Ranni's sacrifice and how she felt murdering her brother to achieve her own goals? Eh, whatever, right? Ends justify the means, that's Ranni. Or is it? We don't really know. She doesn't talk about it. Surely she didn't feel great about it, but hey, what can you do? She just made some protective charm for her mother who's still alive if off her rocker, but I guess she doesn't really care if we've met her or about ever seeing her again. That's fine if that's true, but we don't know. And we don't know for what I consider to not be good reasons. These NPCs are just there and do not care about things beyond the scope of their very, very narrow focal point, which makes them feel like just that: NPCs, rather than anyone you can bridge the immersion gap to and think of as people conceivably existing in a story.
>>738783596God, you are a pretentious wanker.
>>738783694Brother, we kill the shit out of her. She just dies in a cool way.
>>738783627If you don't finish Ranni's quest, they aren't. What does this mean for the world?If you finish Ranni's quest, the two fingers in the roundtable hold are still alive. They're out of time I guess. The Roundtable Hold isn't exactly explained very well. So, what of them?Do they matter for anything? Are they your vassals now?>The GW never enslaved anyone. It never forces anyone to do anything.You don't even know that though. It's fine if it's your conclusion, but it's something we don't actually know.
>>738784248>So, what of them?>Do they matter for anything? Are they your vassals now?They burn with the Roundtable Hold, as everyone else in it.>You don't even know that though.You also have no evidence that the GW ever enslaved anyone.
>>738785279Why would they? You need a Fingerslaying Blade to kill the fingers, as was decreed on high by a quest, so surely burning a building down isn't stopping them even if that building is a fake construction for obscure reasons other than gameplay facilitation.>no evidence that the GW ever enslaved anyone.Well, it's not directly enslavement, but the GW very specifically spurned the Nox and lead to their downfall so it is actively (allegedly) capable of deciding if people in the Lands Between get to do certain things. So if the setup is that defying the Greater Will gets your society nuked, everyone left is just doing what they allow. Slaves.
>>738745139yeah ER isnt exactly known for good writing
>>738782421>or melt everything back together into kabbalistic primordial sludge (Frenzy).doesn't happen. you get duped by a demon into destroying all life. frenzy flame destroys gold, that's why the catalyst for channeling it is the eyes. it's the shadow of the greater will, which is why you find it directly underneath the erdtree and therrfore elden beast. the urge to throw a cosmic temper tantrum because piecing itself back together from infinitely small pieces of itself is really really hard.
it's a copy from her remembrance, not her actual head you lorelet retard.
>>738786516It's her actual head. She's dead and you ripped her head off. Remembrances are just an obfuscation for gameplay.
>>738786516>>738748976fyi
>>738786547no the obfuscation from gameplay is the "fading into light particles" because all the bosses actually leave a corpse (but not Metyr) you dumbfuck
>>738786516this dude hops around from headcanon to headcanon moaning about how sote ruined everything. he's a godwyn simp, ignore him.
>>738786631nope, it's just a cool death effect.it is her head as a weapon without modification. you killed her. it's her head. she's dead.
>>738786674>t.:sub-70 IQ screetching
>>738786734okay mr wonkaunfortunately it's her head and she's dead
>>738755849>Learning he was a hornsent is the only addition the dlc hasuh where was this?
>>738786646>godwyn simpfunniest shit to me. after the first few months of ER I checked out and didn't follow the fandom much because, you know, had my fun with it and all. it was such a shock coming back for SotE to find a huge amount of retards had placed godwyn on some enormous pedestal and expected a whole plot around him was the funniest fucking shit. I didn't care for Radahn 2: Chip Damage Boogaloo but it makes me happy knowing a bunch of vaati orbiters didn't get their delusions. That and the rest of the DLC was fucking great so it's all good.
>>738786949total headcanon
>>738758039>I know the connection. I don't particularly buy it.as the saying goes: "you can take the retarded anon to the literacy well, but you cant make him drink from it (because he is a niggerfaggot)"
>>738757880>I don't believe Hyetta is Irina.Then frankly nothing you say is worthy of consideration if you can't accept the most basic of starting facts.
>>738787028Yeah the Godwyn thing is just the old classic of "creating your own deep headcanon then kverching hard when that headcanon is not true".
>>738775520Knowing the people in the game are idiots and you can understand something they can't makes it very easy to understand the lore.Knowing a bunch of meteors broke up and left the primeval current informs you on the game. Knowing red hair isn't a curse because Marika had red haired children before Radagon informs you on how retarded and regressive her society was compared to the others.
>>738781830They didn't know the lore so they made some up them when it didn't match what they made up in the end they call it a retcon. The same amber gems are used on the GO priest robes, are those guys rykards? No.
>>738786949His outfit has the wind motif of the divine beast warriors and his crotch is covered by the visage of a terrible mother which the hornsent would see Marika as. His entire treatise on how to make the perfect reality is specifically designed around taking power away from Marika, who ruined the hornsent society. How he wants to fix her issues stems from being a person from a culture she rolled, and the culture he was from happen to have all the same visual elements as him. No one in the lands between uses those shin guard anklets, but the hornsent used them a lot, and they used wind as their dominance over nature motif.
>>738786791Rennala is the living proof that remembrances =/= cutting/stealing shit from dead bosses and coincidentaly the proof that you are a terminal retard kek
>>738788201Ignoring any particular arguments about Radagon being her child vs split self or anything, Radagon appears before anyone else has red hair. We don't know if Radagon is Messmer's father or not. So pretty much everything you just said basically doesn't matter. Their world also does not operate on the same principles of reality anyway you slice it. Curses actually exist, magic exists, shit happens for reasons which are not genetic.
>>738788547Rennala is simply taking her own sorcery. She is an outright illusion when you fight her in the first place. All you're doing is learning her magic that you saw by fighting her. Time to peel away the gameplay obfuscations and think critically, retardkun.
>>738788673>Radagon appears before anyone else has red hair.Radagon appears in the 2 Liurnian wars which is pretty close to the end of the timeline all things considered. Marika had 2 children with red hair that predate even Godfrey. Her culture is just peak retarded because they replaced all scientific understanding with faith based copes.
>>738788547You kill a memory of Rennala that Ranni set up as a trap to protect her own mother. The phase 2 transition cutscene should have clued you in. Likewise, you kill Godwyn's dragon friend in the dream realm and you get his remembrance.
>>738788741k faggot, picrel is where her real staff actually is even after you make it from the remembrance...>inb4 "its muh gameplay obfuscation!" I accept your concession little lorelet bitch kek
>>738788830Radahn grew up knowing and looking up to Messmer which points to Radagon existing quite some time ago since he obviously did more before he even married Rennala and had all those kids.We'll never know the exact timeline on these things so feel free to speculate all you want, but the fact remains this is a world with outright magical beings placing actual (true) magical curses and limitations on people and isn't just "wow haha the retards don't know about recessive genes." Yeah that could be true. It could not be in the setting where a god of rot posesses and then makes a woman explode into a flower and nukes an entire continent.
>>738789002>Radahn grew upRadagon is Marika anon.
>>738789028No shit, anon. Radagon still came to be one day and it's implied to be pretty early on in things, but once again we don't have a timeline so there isn't a soul posting here that can truly tell you whether Radagon or Messmer were around to be seen by people first.
>>738789140>Radagon still came to be one day and it's implied to be pretty early on in thingsThe liurnian wars are almost the end of the timeline before the game starts up lad.
>>738789185yeah and we still have no clue what the actual timing of any of this is, and once again, no one is going to be able to say it with certainty. We don't know. We know one thing, Radahn looked up to Messmer, so Radahn was alive while Messmer was still known about. That's it, that's the one thing we have.Radagon is also still a distinct personality from Marika, and his own thoughts about his red hair are of course his own. Not like we know what Marika thought of Messmer's red hair either, though, of course.
>>738788913yes and you make a staff / spell from her remembrance because, just like any other remembrance's item, it's a fucking tarnished-sized copy of the real thing you absolute mong...see : >>738788980
>>738789185The timeline takes thousands of years.
>>738780447INT, probably. ARC seems the weakest.
>>738790095nah FTH definitely the weakest, you have to depend on completely unreliable entities for your shit to work
>>738782421The basic story is pretty obvious. It is just really hard to get all the details and whether they matter or are just scattershot randomness.
>>738790162everyone with real power is a Faithchadeveryone who tries to become a chad with INT becomes a retard
>>738790407
>>738790502Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers.Number 1: That's terror.Number 2: That's terror.
>>738790659you pass the vibe check, proceed onwards faithchad
