Do I really have to play every single game in the series to fully understand the story? I heard some of the games have dreadful battle mechanics.
>>738753143No you fucking moron. Just go play 1, look up a summary of CoM, and then play 2.
>>738753143No you can literally start at 2 because the opening cutscene recaps the events of 1 and CoM as well as it having recap scenes throughout the early parts
>>738753143the story of KH is retarded bullshit that's very obviously just made up as it goes along. It's not worth trying to understand.
>>738753143Imagine reading a book, skipping 500 pages then complaining that you don’t get it. That’s you.
>>738753228calm down little guy>>738753234>>738753315I'm almost done with 1 and have been really enjoying it. the atmosphere is pure kino. but I heard Chain of Memories has a disgusting card battle system that I don't want to put up withso is it worth it to endure that for a great story/atmosphere?>>738753286I've heard that too but maybe it's just complex yet rewarding
Not really, the kind of person who thinks that wouldn't even ask this question because they feel this way about everything, they're lorefag, must understand every worthless reference, must consoom every piece of trivia.The ones you HAVE to play are 1 and 2.The ones that I'd argue you SHOULD play are also Re:CoM and BBS.The others aren't even worth watching a summary. Skip.3 isn't listed because you won't understand the story even if you play everything, but it is very much worth playing.
>>738753143You could play every game and you still wouldn't understand the story.
>>738753228>>738753234>just read a plot summary>just watch a recapVideo games are the only form of media where people DON'T want to experience them.
>>738753414thanks. maybe I'll try to gut through it because I really like the KH world. I heard good things about BBS. it's crazy that there's like 15 games with an interconnected storyI'll definitely play 3thanks anon
>>738753534Just treat 1, 2 and 3 as the "must plays", the ones in between you give a try, if you like, keep playing, if you don't, skip to the next must play.Oh and the collection lists 358/2 before II but do not follow that. If you do decide to watch the cutscenes (again, don't think it's worth your time), do it after II, not before it. It spoils a lot of stuff, it's a prequel but very much assumes you've already played it.
>>738753634got it, good to know. yeah if a game just feels bad then I'll watch the story on youtube or something. it won't hit the same as playing through it but it'll help bridge the gap at leastdid you play all of them?
Yes, I too watched the dunkey video!
>>738753143You need to know the story of them all for 3 honestly but I think the combat is actually fine for them all. CoM’s card combat is the one that’s probably the most polarizing, the rest are relatively similar until you get to the rhythm game but that’s after 3 anyways
>>738753435That's because videogames are the only form of media where hardware plays a role in quality. Spinoffs produced for lower end hardware with much lower budgets fail to live up to the mechanical standards set by the previous mainline title more often than not. This isn't a problem in any other medium.The more comparable comparison would be "do I need to watch all of the disney+/netflix spinoffs" "do I need to read every single tie-in?" and stuff like that. And the answer is true for those as well, "only if you enjoy it."
>>738753835okay that sounds doable. I heard the CoM story is really good so maybe I just suck it up and get through it on the easiest difficulty or somethingthis is gonna take me like 5 years to get through lol, I probably have 5-10 hours a week to play stuff
>>738753720I skipped the 0.2 prologue to KH III and 358/2 days, which I only checked on youtube. Playing as they came out also meant buying new hardware for each disappointing release. It was fun.BBS is a much weaker game than II, but storywise it's honestly one of the coolest ones. If you're still invested in the story at that point, I'm sure that alone will carry you through it.
>>738754079nice. I was a kid when they came out so I definitely couldn't afford the various consoles. I'm glad they packaged it all into 1 PC release
>>738753376>but I heard Chain of Memories has a disgusting card battle system that I don't want to put up with>so is it worth it to endure that for a great story/atmosphere?It's actually a lot of fun. Who told you it was disgusting?Play it on easy mode if you don't want to deal with it, and don't complain if you skip it and don't understand
>>738753143dont worry, even if you play every game its pure nonsense, just play the good ones and stop(kh1, chain of memories, 2, and bbs)
>>738754293that's my takeaway from searching the game. my good friend also couldn't get into it. based on anons here, it sounds like that's overblown, so I'll give it a shot. I do want to fully understand the story
if you care, you can. lots of people just watch lore videos these days.
>>738753143>Do I have to play the game to have played the gamesNo, you aren't going to magically wake up one day knowing everything that happens in a game you haven't played
>>738754420NTA but I quite like the gameplay in CoM. It is however more on the challenging side compared to playing the other games on Normal, which are just button mashers. I think that's the source of most people's frustrations with it. It'll force you to learn the systems, you can't just mash X and win.
>>738753916Really all you're saying is>the quality can vary greatly between each entryWhich is true for anything that is part of a larger whole. You could be reading a book series and 4, 5 and 6 are significantly worse.
>>738753435Welcome to the world of non-millennials.
>>738754791I'm 34, it's just the fact that playing 13 games to understand the story of a game I love is going to take me years. that's why I asked. but I'm glad so many anons are encouraging me to go through it all. I'm sure it will feel very rewarding in the end>>738754579>>738754614you've all convinced me, I promise. I'll get through every game
>>738754420It's only shit in the sense that a person might hate metroidvanias and therefore call Aria of Sorrow shit. It's a real-time card system. You play by building a deck of cards and then 'playing them' during battle instead of just having a standard attack button.Unless you fundamentally hate having to think about deck construction, what attacks you use, and what attacks the enemies are using (i.e. having to think even a little while playing a video game) the system itself is quite good. Every card, separate from its abilities, has a numeric value from 0-9. If you play a card, and then an enemy attacks with a higher value card, or vice versa, the attack is interrupted. Similarly, you and your enemy can't attack if a higher value card is currently being played. If you build your deck well, you can keep your enemies from attacking period by constantly having higher value and/or unbreakable cards in play.It's very satisfying, it's just not the mainline combat system meaning that luddites get enraged having to do anything but spam attacks.
>>738754725The fact that your example is using 4, 5 and 6 instead of 2 4 and 6 supports my point, I think.It's the difference between a writer running out of ideas and a cashgrab made without money or hardware to run something as good as the previous game. It's intentionally saving the best ideas to the big budget releases on the most popular platforms most of your fans can play, instead of burning them for a mobile spinoff.Yes, it's variation of quality, but the reason why it's varying is different than a book or movie series getting worse. It's more similar to "we're not gonna spend hundreds of millions on Disney+ slop, just tie the story so people will have a reason to buy this crap."Do you think every single person who watches MCU shit is watching every single tie in show? The difference is mostly that they don't ask, they just skip shit as they see fit. You think every person who watched Rocky Balboa watched all 5 movies before it? Same for Creed? Fuck no, their slop detector works and they skip the sequel spam and come back to the ones that are actually worth their time.
>>738754987appreciate the effortpost. you've made the system clear. I'll give COM a shot for sure. I used to love playing Pokemon/YuGiOh as a kid so this hopefully clicks rather quickly
>>738754887>I'm sure it will feel very rewarding in the endThat's the fun part, it won't.
>>738755074>The fact that your example is using 4, 5 and 6 instead of 2 4 and 6 supports my point, I think.But the numbers are arbitrary and interchangeable while maintaining my point. If you want them to be 2, 4 and 6, or 7412, 64121 and 652651245124, that's fine too. Hell, call them books B, D and F.
>>738755128kekI really like the KH1 story so I'm sure it'll be a fun ride at least
>>738755130It's not arbitrary because it doesn't happen. At least not as frequently as in videogames. Only example I could think of was Rocky.
>>738755205Oh, I think if they ever make more Star Wars and if it's actually good, a lot of people WILL skip the sequel trilogy.
>>738755205Jojo
>>738753143Most of the time it's just the exact plot of a Disney movie but also there's monsters to fight. If you skip some, you'll probably see some characters and wonder who the fuck they are, but you can play 1, 2, 3 without bothering with the rest.
>>7387531431 is a standalone story. CoM, 2, and 358 expand on it and conclude with 2. Birth By Sleep is complete and utter nonsense that makes up incredibly retarded shit that the rest of the games have to do a comically convoluted set of gymnastics to make sense of. tl;dr: play 1, Chain of Memories, 2, and maybe 358 and Re:Coded as extras.
All of you nitwits slandering KH3 WILL prostrate before the altar of Xehanort once KH4 brings it all together.
>>738755445I love the game, it's just the story that is really fucking retarded. My main issue isn't even the stupid plot or the stupid characters, but the stupid pacing. Way too backloaded. So much of the game has nothing happening, they could have concluded some of the plot threads and had some of the main boss fights throughout the game instead of all at once.
I played and liked KH1 and 2 when they were new, but I never played any of the dogshit spinoffs and refuse to, so I will likely never play KH3. It's pretty much that simple.
>>738755661>I never played them because they're dogshit>also they don't make any sense>but yeah I never played themJust about sums up the people who call the story confusing.
>>738755445Just one more game. Trust the plan.
>>738755783Who are you quoting? I didn't say any of that
>>738755852this but unironically
Kingdom Hearts 1, Chain of Memories, KH2, and 358/2 Days are a really satisfying quadrilogy. You have KH1 setting everything up and being your basic hero's journey sort of story. Because of this it's the easiest to understand and still the most approachable game. Chain of Memories is a direct sequel to KH1 and is frankly necessary to fully understand KH2's opening. Otherwise you go from the "I promise we'll find each other!" ending of KH1, to Sora in hibernation with no real explanation, even in the recap stuff they do. The opening to KH2 obviously is intended to fuck with the player a bit, but you would ideally play Chain of Memories. Chain of Memories is, however, a genuinely good story about memory and how it shapes people, and because it's a direct sequel to KH1, it's still fairly approachable and easy to understand if you've played KH1. KH2 is of course solid. Most of the real story happens at the beginning and the end of the game, but everything to do with Roxas, Organization XIII, and the Nobodies is cool and fun: and then KH2 brings everything to a satisfying conclusion. 358/2 Days is an interquel that takes place between KH1, during the events of Chain of Memories, and leads into the Roxas prologue opening of KH2, and it's the best Kingdom Hearts game. It follows Roxas and Organization XIII giving you the villain's perspective on those first three games, which is amazing. Everything that follows those 4 games is of ...i guess to put it nicely, it's of varying qualityI do kinda like BBS and Dream Drop just as games, I'd rather replay those games than a play lot of modern titles
>>738753143Just read the Kingdom Hearts manga adaptations. They're funny and actually make sense.
>>738756470thank you, anon. I'll definitely get through KH2 at least. I really want to play KH3 so I think I'll do my best to gut it out
>>738753143Yeah pretty much. CoM doesn't really have that much of note happen- and it's still important to understand what happened to Riku in 2, who org 13 is and why half of them are missing, and sets up some pieces which are extremely important for the payoff in 3.Hell, the set-up for CoM is made more important later on.Birth by Sleep is just a no-brainer necessary part of the series.Coded is kind of disposable but it also apparently has THE best version of every single modular combat system that comes out afterwards and every game (358 1/2 days, BBS, 3D) tries to chase the dragon. Oddly enough, Coded is more useful for setting up a different "spin-off".3D is a direct sequel to 2 and directly leads into 3.I'd consider 2.8 the only TRUE, absolutely DISPOSABLE story in the ENTIRE series because it only serves to tell you why Mickey wasn't wearing a shirt in that one scene.KhuX is such a batshit insane plot that's only worth (and only possible now) consuming through youtube videos. And they've somehow tied it directly into KH4 so you need to watch all 100 hours of it.
>>738757197KH3 is ok. I think the biggest problem with it is it's a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario, where Nomura had to put up with a lot of shitty demands from Disney. Including things like>no Final Fantasy characters>specific annoying demands about the Disney worlds he could use (especially Frozen which is kinda infamous)>forced to make a happy ending for characters even when it doesn't work or undoes the really effective endings these characters already had>"make the game really fucking easy for casual retards"etc.
>>738757061It's fucked up that they just forgot that Nobodies can talk in the game. Like every single Nobody you interact with is a conscious person. This is IN the game.
>>738753143Playing every game does not make the story a single bit better or more coherent.
>>738753143Skip reCom since it's literally a retread of KH1's worlds plus you'll get the gist by playing KH2 anyway
>>7387531432 is the only good KH game so just play that one
>>738758151>forgetting the ludokino that is 1Play both.
>>738753143Yes. There are no spinoffs. KHUX, the mobile game, is mandatory to understanding 4 because there is nothing they can add in 4 outside of a full novelization of the story or retelling everything to explain everything.
>>7387575530.2 does a bit more than that>Shows what WoD was like for Aqua>How Mickey knew where she was>How Mickey acquired his Keyblade of Darkness>How she loses Eraqus' keyblade before 3plus it's short and has a sampling of 3's combat
Casual gamer here. Is Kingdom Hearts ranked as one of the GOAT JRPGs?
>>738758494Also
>>738758628It's not a JRPG. 2 is pretty high up there as an action RPG though.
>>738758683I thought a JRPG was any RPG game made in Japan. But that's good to hear. I look forward to playing it when I have time.
>>738758745that only depends on if /v/ is arguing about expedition 33
>>738758745>I thought a JRPG was any RPG game made in Japan.No, it's a gameplay style. Expedition 33 is a French JRPG. It's like Soulslikes where Remnant from the Ashes is a Soulslike despite being a third-person shooter.
>>738757854>>you'll get the gist by playing KH2 anyway>Why is sora sleeping in a pod?>How did sora get there?>Who is Namine?>Who is that pink haired dude with the scythe in the opening >Why is it called organization 13 if there are only 8 members?
>>738758832>No, it's a gameplay style.no its not retard
>>738753143Nomura just makes shit up as he goes.If you enjoy the characters he writes then playing the series is its own reward.Entertainment isnt homework, and KH has some great games.
>>738758494In a sense, it is the KH3 equivalent of KH2's Roxas prologue, packaged separately as a demo of sorts.
>>738759056Yes, it is. It's typically linear, story-focused, tends to focus heavily on its setting and presentation, has you constantly upcycling equipment, leveling up increases your stats to make content easier allowing you to bypass the need to strategize in almost all cases, usually has some sort of gimmick either in combat or through the gearing process, has party members join throughout the game that may or may not be killed off, and I'm sure there's many more things you could add onto that if you'd like.E33 is not a WRPG despite being made in the west because a WRPG is heavily dialogue-focused, relies on custom character building or at the very least puts a bigger emphasis on what stats do, relies on dice rolls or some sort of dice roll-esque mechanics to do things, is story focused but you can influence and change the outcomes or either characters or the main story itself, and many other things.Expedition 33 alone should show you how dumb it is not to be calling it a JRPG because it is. It's a gameplay genre with specific conventions just like Soulslikes have specific conventions. If E33 isn't a JRPG then Remnant or Salt & Sanctuary aren't a Soulslike despite 100% being a Soulslike.
>>738753143>Do I really have to play every single game in the series to fully understand the story?No. The story is very barebones and empty with no substance. Its shit like X is X and those X were a dream and X is a clone etc.
>>738759393you could reduce anything in this way you massive fool
>>738758682Why did Disney censor the mouse nipples?
could someone once again remind what the fuck that bizarre Ansem appearance, like 30 minutes into Destiny Islands in KH1 when you find that random rape cave, and what the fuck it was all about, so i can save it in a notepad file and never have to ask again
>>738758628Yea, they're great. Action RPGs thoughever. Hybrid between JRPGs and action gaem combat.
>>738759419Yeah but most games have likeable characters that give the events more weight
>>738759624yeah well that's just like your opinion man
I don't really like KH3 very much, but I like the intro movie that summarizes the series a lot.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYAlnhy88Y4
>>738759562It's Ansem SoD traveling back in time to let his younger self know about other worlds and darkness, and to hijack Riku's body afterward.
>>738755105Play the gba version
>>738759315>Yes, it is. It's typically linear, story-foRPG is an acronym of role playing game. The J is an arbitrary designation of the nationality/region of the developer that made it. JRPG does not mean anything beyond that.
>>738755568Ideally kh3 would probably go like this.>0.2 as the destiny island/twilight town intro stage equivelant.>finish the first 4 disney levels>save aqua and make the realm of darkness an actual level as the midpoint section like the return to traverse town and hollow bastion.>finish the disney worlds and maybe fight a few organization members while aqua recovers>after that aqua wakes up and is ready to save ventus(doesn't have to be a world)>endgame, but this time make either scala or the keyblade graveyard an actual full fledged world.Hell just having 0.2 somewhere in there would probably make the pacing a lot less fucked.Kh3 was just disney worlds back to back from start to finish.The realm of darkness was one of the most fun worlds to go through in the franchise and I am sad that we didn't get a cool oc world where the team has the freedom to design it anyway they want.Hell the small portion of scala you got to explore scala mogged everysingle disney world that was in 3.I blame square's greed for wanting to squeeze out one extra collection for 0.2 not being the destiny island/roxas intro of 3.
>>738759624>implying
>>738756470>and 358/2 DaysI am so sick of this dogshit take.Days is a garbage game and xion is garbage character.
1 2 and 3 are enoughRe:chain was fun but skippable and the card system filtered me for yearsbbs mixed bag358/2 I rented from blockbuster but remember being cool on the ds
>>738760081Except that has not been the case since it started to be used seriously. It is a gameplay genre and style. You know the exact type of game someone is talking about when you are talking about a JRPG compared to a generic "RPG" or an ARPG or a WRPG. Again, you are the type of person who would say Remnant isn't a Soulslike because it's not a third-person action game, or Salt & Sanctuary isn't one because it's a 2D platformer. JRPG is a subgenre of the RPG genre just like WRPG is, just like ARPG is.
>>738758628Both 1 and 2 are ARPGs with 1 being more of an RPG and 2 being more of an action game.
>>738760081>mr. literal
>>738760202NTA but Days is an ambitious game with weak core gameplay and Xion works well as a deuteragonist up until the tail end of the game in which it goes from her being someone on Roxas's level to bounce off, of to her being the McGuffin everyone is fighting over.It just feels worse in retrospect than it actually is because Roxas speedrunning childhood cognitive development via his adventures in the Disney worlds is actually the meat of the game but the endless KH1 rehashes, 2's overall weak support for Disney plotlines, and 3 being 3, have created a blindspot towards what actually happens in the majority of these games, which in days case is the progression from Roxas being a shell to Mr.Secret movie.
>>738760590You can't reason with the kinds of people your replying to.At some point during their childhood they made rejection from their peers into a rejection of their home culture and idolization of Japan as the Idealized Other, and in turn a wish to present Japan as that Other in every way possible.
>>738760935Xion literally becomes a character in the finale when she meets Riku. Up until that point she's nothing. She's not a character nor interesting to talk to. She's a puppet learning emotions due to Roxas. It takes until that tail end of the game where she learns about the truth of who she is that she finally starts making choices on her own, taking a stand, and showing who she is instead of just some shadow of Roxas and imitating his and Axel's actions.Up until the finale Xion is a waste of time and space in the game and takes away from the entire game because focusing on her means you never learn anything about the Organization in a game where you are literally inside of it. We learn more about the Organization in KHUX, a game that takes place like 100 years prior to it, than we did in Days.I could not stand her during all of Days, and I'm still not happy that she exists. I still need to replay Days to get it fresh into my mind since I despised it my first 100% playthrough and that was shortly after launch.
>>738758628KH1 and KH2 are legitmate classics and some of the best action JRPGs you can playThe rest you can ignore, I wish I was strong enough to
I lost interest in KH over the years. But [deep dive] off limewire in my late teens? Fuckin' sick. The best secret movie / trailer of any game imo.
>>738760202I've got to ask why you dislike Xion
>>738760590>It is a gameplay genreYes, but the genre is very clearly defined>You know the exact type of game someone is talking about when you are talking about a JRPG compared to a generic "RPG" or an ARPG or a WRPG.That doesn't mean that's what the definition is, especially when it leads to calling a french RPG "Japanese".>you are the type of person who would say Remnant isn't a Soulslike because it's not a third-person action game, or Salt & Sanctuary isn't one because it's a 2D platformer.No I'm not, because "soulslike" is a nebulous term that only describes its similarity to another game. Its not a real genre. Those games aren't NOT soulslikes, but the name "soulslike" is an arbitrary descriptor.>JRPG is a subgenre of the RPG genre just like WRPG is, just like ARPG is.No its not. There's a difference between a genre and a style. Renaissance isn't a genre of art, its just a descriptor of a particular style of art from a specific place and period of time.
>>738761197That's a really dogshit opinion. The whole point of her character is her becoming human and the game takes the time it rightfully needs to to tell that story. It's Bladerunner-lite for children and it's really fukken good
>>738761197I think you should give it a rey again sometime, I hear Mellon Mix improves the core gameplay a lot.I think you will pleasantly surprised with Xion because she becomes a character a lot earlier than you would think, just a character which serves a supporting role to Roxas, basically the "buddy who is your first party member" role in other JRPGs except her personality is a mixture of Colette and Genis from Symphonia if you ever played that.But if your main want from days is more info for the Org 13 members than that's a fair complaint, they are more coworkers than anything else.
>>738761539>calling it by the movie adaptation and not the original novel name<angry screeching>
>>738760935>Xion works well as a deuteragonistShe isn't.her story is just a rehash of shit other characters did better before.Repliku did the replica thing better since unlike Xion everything down to his appearance and memories are just a copy of Riku.That kind of existential horror and struggle is what makes his clone plotline interesting.You might argue, but it can still be intersting, becauss she is a manmade abomination or some other gay cope like that but nobodies are already abominations that shouldn't exist.Roxas did the needing to die so that sora can wake up thing in 2 already.Also I do not like how she is the one that started looking into her past and questioning the organization while roxas was just a passive wagie for the organization untill they decided to kill him off when roxas' entire arc in 2 was that HE betrayed and left the organization because HE wanted to know more about sora.I wanted a game about roxas and the organization and all I got is this literal guest writer's self insert bending the entire plot around her.It is a fucking disgrace that even kh3 gave us more shit about the og organization members than fucking days did.
You're going to have a hard time convincing me people don't just seethe about Xion's character because her character is an allegory for something way too sad for most people to face. She's objectively a great character.
>>738761351>but the genre is very clearly definedYes, it is. The "Roleplaying" genre is very broad and just requires you to have a stat sheet, party members, equipment, and a journey. Subgenres tighten that focus.>That doesn't mean that's what the definition is, especially when it leads to calling a french RPG "Japanese".No one cares that the "J" in "JRPG" means "Japanese". It has become a genre unto itself. Metroidvanias are not literally Metroid or Castlevania games in gameplay, they are a subgenre of Action games that specify what to expect out of them. You being unable to grasp this is a you problem.E33 is a JRPG made by the French. It is not a WRPG because a WRPG requires you to have dialogue choices that change the story, dice rolls, usually are non-linear, you cannot clear certain content in the game without having specific skill points in specific skills, and more.>because "soulslike" is a nebulous term that only describes its similarity to another game. Its not a real genre."Soulslike" is a real genre and everyone but you can seemingly grasp it.>There's a difference between a genre and a style.JRPG is a genre, not a style, otherwise I couldn't give you a list of major differences to WRPGs.>>738761539>The whole point of her character is her becoming human and the game takes the time it rightfully needs to to tell that story.It should never have existed in the first place. She never existed prior to Days, everyone went into Days expecting an Organization story, and got this character building on a literal who puppet while all the important people went off to do other stuff or refused to talk to Roxas outside of insulting him every time they encountered him. She's the worst aspect of the game until the very finale when she finally culminates in a real character. Prior to that you spend the entire game asking why she's even here and why you aren't doing anything but filler content for the Organization in a game based around them.
>>738761916>It should never have existed in the first place. She never existed prior to Days>"You're not allowed to tell stories I don't expect!"
>>738760202>>738760935>>738761668Xion is symptomatic of a larger problem with KH as a whole. Playing with potentially interesting concepts for characters in its setting and then doing...fuck all with it, effectively wasting that poterntial. Nobodies as a concept in general could've been more interesting, beings that shouldn't exist as they are in the universe and knowing that, and trying to justify their own existence. Only to basically make most of them unsympathetic, and the less human looking ones just heartless with a different color scheme. Xion was them trying to explore the concept with her being he less real, and to Day's credit tried to play up the emotion and tragedy of it...only to walk back on all of it and bring her back to life somehowHell, her being another Sora clone or looking like a dark haired Kairi isn't even really relevant to anything
Xion is my wife.
>>738761972>Playing with potentially interesting concepts for characters in its setting and then doing...fuck all with itHow the fuck How the fuck do you even say thatAssuming you've actually played it
>>738761197She gives Roxas someone that he has to now look after and guide when, to that point, HE was the nothing character at the bottom of the totem pole requiring help from everyone else.
>>738761972>Xion was them trying to explore the concept with her being he less realLike I said Repliku did it better and the entire thing about nobodies is that they are not supposed to exist.
>the plot is so interesting that the thread has evolved into a deep discussion on all of its beats and meaningsyeah I'm thinking KH is kino
>>738761969>"You're not allowed to tell stories I don't expect!"If you want your Xion story don't do it in the game that advertises itself as Roxas' time in the Organization which people would naturally expect would be about his time at the Organization involving fleshing out the other members that 2 and CoM could not spend time on. Do it in a mainline or another game not about this. Instead 90% of the game is Axel being mia as you primarily spend time building up Xion and then writing a reason as to why she didn't exist in CoM or KH2 and why no one ever spoke of her. Why wasn't his friendship with Axel the focal point? Why not use the fact that him seeing people from different worlds caused him to question the actions of the Organization, and him to rebel against the Organization due to the gaslighting from them?It's like buying Halo ODST and the story is you seeing Master Chief clear every obstacle for you and nothing ever happens until the finale when you all die because Master Chief wasn't there.
>>738762102Xion in her original game wasn't too bad, in fact it's one the rare cases of them trying to make up for previous games. But too bad it was all fucking wasted after >>738762150I don't disagree, but that's a very low bar to begin with. Hell, now that I've played FFIX I'm fucking pissed they have the audacity to have Vivi in the game, and never have him once do or say anything important when that was his entire fucking plot in that game.
>>738762339Vivi only got in KH2 because the staff demanded it.
>>738753424This lmaoEven worse considering one of the most important games in the series in terms of plot is exclusively locked to a mobile gacha game that ended service many years ago.
>>738761668And that's a fair stance to take, and in response I will argue firstly that while they both do ti well, she does it better than Repliku because his presence in Riku's campaign post the end of Soras is really abrupt and at the very least needed a bit more build up or explanation to him absorbing Zexion and another showing him break down over how that didn't work before the final showdown, which is a very good finale to his storyline.In contrast Xion is given a full game to run the gambit of thoughts on the matter.But ill give you your second point towards her dying for Sora being a retread and her taking up space that could of hypothetically gone towards but if that's the case then a lot of the storylines in KH would just automatically be trash regardless.Forgive me if I'm wrong but it wounds like your resentment towards Days narrtively is les about thee game itself and more that you wanted a different game and so the well towards what you were given was poisoned form the start.
>>738762339>Hell, now that I've played FFIX I'm fucking pissed they have the audacity to have Vivi in the game, and never have him once do or say anything important when that was his entire fucking plot in that game.Nomura only includes Final Fantasy characters he likes or had a hand in creating.Vivi was forced into the game by Square. Of course he's not going to give a shit.
>>738762334>If you want your Xion story don't do it in the game that advertises itself as Roxas' time in the OrganizationAgain, anon, it just sounds like you're seething about Roxas' time in the organization not being what you expected. Also I'm assuming you either didn't get what Xion's character was meant to be, or it didn't click with you, but I'm assuming it's the former since you're really just trying to dress up your personal distaste for the game as some kind of objective criticism.
>>738762420>explanation to him absorbing Zexion andThey literally explain it in the cutscene it happens.And just, because xion hzs an entire game dedicated to her rehashing other character's arcs doesn't make it better.
>>738762395Good on the staff then, but it was still wasted potential.>>738762451I really don't give a fuck about what Nomura thinks about them. They're in the game, they're in the canon, you can't erase that because you think you've outgrown it or don't want to do anything with it
>>738762451The Tokyo Team forced him to lol. They kept egging on him to do it even if he was all 'lol I didn't work on 9' and the co-directors all said 'yeah we did you're putting him in the game lol'. Those same devs did say they'd quit if Nomura wasn't given any power. That's how he was in the director's chair for KH1 and that's why they all left Versus
>>738762471>it just sounds like you're seething about Roxas' time in the organization not being what you expected.I am. Because I was lied to about what the game was going to be prior to playing it and not in a way that's interesting but instead in a way where I have to care about a newly introduced character who hadn't existed up until this point and has all the focus placed on her. She is the Poochie of Kingdom Hearts. Someone I am outright expected to like when she's been shoved in there out of nowhere.>Also I'm assuming you either didn't get what Xion's character was meant to be, or it didn't click with you,No, I understood exactly that she was meant to mirror Roxas and be a reason for why he was able to gain his humanity through their friendship together while she went from being featureless to her own person and understood the tragedy of the situation she was in and the harm she was dealing both Roxas and Sora by existing. I completely get that Roxas was as much of a malleable puppet as she was in Days and that they both end up completing each other and building off of each other.I am saying that should have been handled in a completely different way via the actual Organization members instead of this brand new character. Xion should not have existed, Roxas should have gained his humanity from Axel's caring attitude, the worlds he visited, and the lies of the Organization. Instead most of it is because of befriending Xion and Axel, the Organization lying about Xion and her purpose, and the constant dismissal of his concerns about Xion disappearing or Axel being sent to Castle Oblivion so he can't hang out with Xion or Roxas. Again, this is an Organization game where we learn NOTHING about the Organization. Marluxia having a sister is more information than anything Days ever taught us about any of its characters. Xemnas staring at Aqua's armor in 2FM is more character development for Xemnas than anything Days ever did for him.
>People get mad at KH for years for butchering the Final Fantasy characters>KHIII doesn't include Final Fantasy characters>Fanbase gets madI'm still confused. I thought you guys hated the characters getting butchered, so why did you want them back?
>>738762892People wanted them done well and with justice, not gone altogether
I just started replaying the series today since my Steam controller arrived. I dunno how far I'll get. The first game is so magical and perfect in its design. 2 has objectively better combat, but it's worse in every other metric. Then it's just downhill from there.I know it's not exactly an unpopular opinion, but the series was so much better when you only had hints of the bigger picture. Seeing Mickey's reverse Keyblade at the very end is a shock - like, holy shit, there's another one! There were other unique and special weapons that were just that - unique and special. Riku's sword isn't a keyblade, but it still has powers unto itself. It makes shit like the keyblade graveyard comical in comparison.
>>738762862>I am.Well at least you admit it.
Whether Nomura wants to accept it or not, the core appeal of KH is the crossover aspect of it. Without that it's just a collection of unrelated Disney levels with an equally unrelated JRPG plot serviving at the cold open and book end of each game.
>>738763003shut up nerd it gets better with every entry
all the mainline games are great. People still like to meme about KH3 being the worst game to exist, but mechanically it's still one of the best action RPGs ever made and they improved it with updates. at launch it was alright. but the new moves greatly improve the speed of attacking and you can also cancel out of moves even better. the only downside is that you dont get the new moves until post game, which really defeats the purpose of it all almost lol. if you're on PC, you can use a mod to mod them in as a natural unlockables through story progression. The DLC also has some insanely well done superbosses that just can't be topped. KH2 feels super smooth and movement and physics were perfected. KH3 doesn't have this since it's a different team and engine. KH2 is the epitome of the action RPG genre. just pure kino all around.chain of memories is so poorly misunderstand I really dont get why people here shit on it. how hard is it to just mostly stand still and counter cards? it's interesting and fun but its just really repetitive. the game has you revisit every world from KH1, making mostly everything skippable until you get to the white castle portions.358 has a bad combat system. the worst of them all, but going through the game once is a fine experience. re:coded, birth by sleep and 3D have the same battle system, but re:coded perfects it and it is literally almost on par with KH2 for how insanely well done it is. the other 2 games are very unbalanced and can be anti-fun at times. they're like KH1 but shit.0.2 is a good tech demo. thats about it. the key story moments are worth it, but KH4 is going to be a reboot of sorts where the story is going to be completely new. there is also a ton of weird lore from the mobile games and shit
>>738761916>The "Roleplaying" genre is very broad and just requires you to have a stat sheet, party members, equipment, and a journey.It requires that you have ROLE PLAYING>No one cares that the "J" in "JRPG" means "Japanese". It has become a genre unto itself. It has not. People just call games from a specific region that. The name does not in and of itself describe a specific type of game other than a role playing game made in/by Japanese people.>Metroidvanias are not literally Metroid or Castlevania games in gameplay, they are a subgenre of Action games that specify what to expect out of them.Metroidvania is not a genre, its a style.>"Soulslike" is a real genreNo its not>E33 is a JRPG made by the French. It is not a WRPG because a WRPG requires you to have-It requires that it be a role playing game made in a western country, because that is what "Western Role Playing Game" means. Any other descriptors are superfluous. Nothing else is an inherent part of the genre.>JRPG is a genre, not a style, otherwise I couldn't give you a list of major differences to WRPGs.You're just describing differences in style, not inherent qualities of a genre. E33 is a western RPG styled LIKE japanese styled RPGs, it is NOT a japanese RPG. Learn the difference.
>>738762892For me the issue is that it makes KH3 feel like a seperate game that doesn't exist in the same timeline. This is kind of heightened by the fact of the Toy Story level being about the Toy Story realm being split into a true and false world, where Andy is missing in the false one. Not having characters like Squall and Aerith chilling out at Hollow Bastion feels like they've just disappeared from the story, and Sora/Donald/Goofy/Mickey and the other characters who interacted them just act like nothing happened. They don't acknowledge the FF characters are missing.
>>738762669Its an expository moment with no pacing script wise to build proper momentum which is the issue with Repliku in the back half of Reverse Rebirth.Ideally we would see that scene from the credits around the time Riku is fighting Lexaeus and then get the "wouldn't you like to be real" line there. Thus giving the audience time to sit with the idea that Repliku is going to do something ominous, then give us the absorption scene. And also we would ahve another scene of him breaking down over him still being a replica of Riku despite the power.And despite writing that out I still like it, hell as I said before I still like them both and personally don't see anything wrong with rehashes if its done well, which I think it was.But I'm the kinda guy where you could give me a hundred different stories of a Knight defeating a Dragon to rescue a Princess and if they are well told ill enjoy it every time.
>>738763094>but mechanically it's still one of the best action RPGs ever madeI can accept people saying this about 2, and I can accept that it's a pretty good gameBut man, really? The attraction mechanics? Shotlock? The floaty combat?
>>738763151Hence my point here >>738762710Regardless on his feelings on them, the FF cast ARE part of KH and should be treated with just as much respect as any of the other characters, to pretend like they don't exist doesn't fix anything
>>738763276The superbosses were really well made and the baseline KH combat is way to well made for no other studio ever trying to copy it properly. Which means that KH games get high up in the rankings via lack of niche competition by default.
>>738763437Which reminds me. FUCK KH3 for basically removing them and replacing them with DLC
If Days ever gets Remade, it would be fine excuse to justify Data Organization XIII one more time. Imagine the secret boss being KH2 Sora.
regardless of series you play the first and only continue if youre having funwatch cutscenes on youtube for CoM, Days, Coded and the mobile games if you must1, 2, BBS, DDD 0.2, and 3 are core games
>>738762892>>People get mad at KH for years for butchering the Final Fantasy charactersYou made that up
Something that's very obnoxious about this series is how literally EVERYTHING is canon, nothing can just be fun for the sake of it, Nomura even delayed Sora's inclusion in Smash because he had to internally justify how it fits in the canon
>>738753143>do i have to play a bunch of good games to enjoy a series?crazy people treat video games like homework instead of enjoying them
>>738763670No I didn't. Final Fantasy fans really hated KH back in the day.
>>738763672Sounds based
>>738763108>It requires that you have ROLE PLAYINGIncorrect. That is extremely broad as a definition and can mean every single game is a role playing game because you play the role of someone else. "Role playing" games require stats, equipment, some form of random chance either in dialogue, combat, or both, and some sort of story that may or may not be influenced by the player. Outside of that is where subgenres get involved.>It has not. People just call games from a specific region that.No they don't. You have convinced yourself they do otherwise this entire discourse around E33 wouldn't exist in the first place. JRPGs were initially called JRPGs because they described a specific type of RPG that came out of Japan that was different to standard western RPGs. Now they are a subgenre of roleplaying games that specifically involve linear story progression, no player choice in dialogue outside of potentially affecting the ending result, the ability to grind away the difficulty, constantly upcycling equipment as you progress through areas, preset character stats, party members that join you throughout the game, and more. The fact that I can break it down for you like this is the definition of a subgenre.>Metroidvania is not a genreMetroidvania is a genre, stop being a literalist. It's a subgenre of the Action genre. It specifically implies exploration, backtracking, using items unlocked through said exploration to unlock passage to new areas in older areas, some light form of stat upgrades or damage upgrades, and sometimes equipment systems.>No its notMillions of people will disagree with you on this. It is. Games are advertised as such. The general public understands exactly the type of game they are getting when it is advertised as a Soulslike.>E33 is a western RPG styled LIKE japanese styled RPGs.Do you just enjoy arguing semantics all day? No one is arguing it's not designed in the west but it is a JRPG just like Citizens of Earth and YIIK.
>>738763276I don't play with attractions. on critical mode there is an ability that turns all attractions commands into form changes. it is the most optimal way to play, because attractions are terrible , you can still take damage using them and they interrupt the flow of combat. the shotlocks are fine. you use them to zoom towards enemies and a full shotlock to get an upper hand on annoying hordes or enemies. the tangled keyblades shotlock is great if you want to farm for shit or defeat those annoying red dragon enemies. when people say floaty combat as a bad thing, they really don't know what they are talking about. what is exactly bad about it? to an extent, KH2 has some floatiness in it as well. the point is, being in the air is a great option in KH3 and you are almost always safer in the air. they added a block in the air for this reason. it is just a different battle system compared to 1 and 2.
>>738763710No we didn't
>>738763710>Final Fantasy fansYou said KH fans>>KHIII doesn't include Final Fantasy characters>>Fanbase gets mad
>>738763237>Its an expository moment with no pacing script wise to build proper momentumIt's fine we knew he struggled heavily with the fact that everything about him is fake since the end of story line.It is not a huge leap of logic that he wpuld be desperate enough to buy into Axel's false promise that getting a new power would somehow diffrentiate himself from Riku.But getting a new power doesn't fundamentally change anything about his situation.The game doesn't need to spoonfeed you everything.Less is more.
>>738763712Have fun looking up hours of cutscenes for infomation that should be in the game already
>>738764128The only thing we really don't see in the games is Namine contacting Lingering Will, but Re:Mind fixed that so really the only thing not in the games now is what, whatever was in the original Coded? Whatever was in V-cast?
>>738753143you can watch a longplay of every game and treat it like some sort of disney movie/series
>>738763749>when people say floaty combat as a bad thing, they really don't know what they are talking about. I think I gotta draw the line. At some point KH combat loses me because it has a lot going on under the hood to magnetically pull you towards whatever enemy you're locked onto, and KH3 is the worst offender
>>738764169If you're only talking about everything in KH1 and KH2
>>738764242KHUX still exists the cutscenes just aren't ordered correctly and all the X content was already implemented into it. I'm not really sure what you could be talking about that you would have to actually look for because the Namine Lingering Will thing was from a random Japan-only concert and that's all that comes to mind as to outside information.
>>738764313You shouldn't to watch an archived YT video to understand the plot of a future game
>>738763672first post i look at and its a secondary crying that things are connected and everything isnt one off like capeshitKH haters and secondaries are the dumbest motherfuckers on the internet
>>738764215thats just how the combat is supposed to work. sliding dash wouldnt work as intended if it didnt fling you towards the closest enemy. its just the same shit and you can freely move to whatever enemy you want without even locking on. I dont get this complaint or why its bad. this is nothing like bamham if thats what youre implying.
>>738764313Not to mention there's also the rhythm game spin-off
>>738764105The first suggestion made made didn't add any new dialogue of information it just made it just improved the pacing and with improving the pacing improves the conveyance, Less is more only when more cannot make the point stronger or detracts from the point.I will give you the second half however, upon reflection I was focusing on the first point so hard that I let it bleed out over the legitimately well done showdown in front of the manor.
>>738753143>he thinks it's possible to understand the stories from just the games
>>738764357You don't have to. You can just go through each cutscene on-by-one in the app. It'll be a bit disjointed but it's still more or less structured reasonably. The Youtube video just does the cutscenes in the order the originally appeared in whereas KHUX has them by location.>>738764405Still a game though. Not requiring you to go outside of it.
>people actually trying to argue with MooseGive it a rest, that autist will keep replying long after you've stopped caring
>>738764387I don't have the time for this, but I can tell you the older KH games feel better to me. In fact, it's only the ones on Unreal Engine 5 that feel bad to me, so maybe it's an Unreal Engine problem.
>>738753143Yes, you do have to actually play the games to be a fan. If you're not interested in that, maybe Pokemon or the RE demakes are more your speed.
>>738753228>look up a summary of CoMWrong going in blind from 1 to 2 is the best way to experience the story, being totally lost is part of the experience.
>>738764429I envy his memory.
>>738764382>bla bla secondariesFuck off. I know about the mobile game plot and how it effects the greater story, but that doesn't make it any less obnoxious and tedious not to mention KHX/Unchained/Dark Road's cutscenes are fucking dull. with its in-engine artstyle being hard to take anything seriously.
>>738762740>Those same devs did say they'd quit if Nomura wasn't given any power.More context:Nomura never intended to be a director. He wasn't even going to direct Kingdom Hearts originally. They had an assigned director that was supposed to come in and direct the game while Nomura would be the producer. (This was Hiroki Chiba who first made the 'gummi ship' concept with Nomura on DynamiTracer for the SNES but he was pulled to lead event planning for FF10 underand skipped 10-2 to work on Dirge.)But when the team was being assembled to make the game, the team members were under the impression that Nomura was going to be director. And so they encouraged Nomura to ask for the director's seat.If you ever wondered how Nomura went from character designer -> Director so quick, that's the story.http://ff7-material.jugem.jp/?eid=796>Were you already a director at that time?>Nomura: No. Later, when we were planning KH, there was a discussion about the next development phase, and someone else was appointed as the director of the "Disney game". I had never wanted to be a director, so that in itself was fine, but I felt that it would be a shame to let all the work I had done up to that point go to waste. Well, I thought it was the company's decision and I had no choice, but the members who are now leading KH encouraged me by saying, "We wanted to work with Tetsu-san, so we didn't want someone else to become the director. The staff at that time were the core members who worked on FF7 and FF8, and we continued to work together on KH for a long time after that.
>>738763746>Incorrect. That is extremely broad as a definition and can mean every single game is a role playing game because you play the role of someone else.Oh I'm talking to a retard, got it.>JRPGs were initially called JRPGs because they described a specific type of RPG that came out of Japan that was different to standard western RPGs.And that's fundamentally what they still are. Any other descriptors are not inherent qualities of the genre itself, hence why a non japanese developer can make a RPG in the same style and not be a JRPG, because they aren't japanese, and they do not own that specific style of RPG.> The fact that I can break it down for you like this is the definition of a subgenre.That's the definition of a style, not a subgenre. Those qualities are not inherently japanese.>Metroidvania is a genre, stop being a literalist.Learn how words work. its a style, not a genre. Its like calling "Doomlike" or "Boomer shooter" a subgenre. They're just styles of a broader genre.>Millions of people will disagree with you on this.>argumentum ad populum>The general public understands exactly the type of game they are getting when it is advertised as a SoulslikeThat doesn't make it a genre, its still just a style.>Do you just enjoy arguing semantics all day?Only on Tuesdays. I'm only arguing because you (incorrectly) tried to correct another anon who (correctly) assumed JRPG meant any RPG game made in Japan.
>>738764426>You don't have toBullshit. You know damn well every last inch of this franchise is important, and to skip out on the mobile game lore you miss out on a shit ton of context, which again, is obnoxiously obtuse for a story that should more relatively straightforward.
>>738764568NTA but did you ever read Frindle growing up?I assume not because it would of given you a conniption if your like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_6mpKet-KI
>series is connecting and ongoing, things are canon in a continuing storyYes this is a good thing. If you dont likr it you can stop anytime. If you do like it its agreat having an ongoing story where things happen and develop.Ive never understand westaboos obsession that everything must be standalone so they can be faggot casuals and jump into new trendy thing and be in on the hype when they never cared about the franchise to begin with. That and tiktok brain fags who crumble at the thought of continuity, fags who watch movies and shows at 3x speed while browsing their phones because they want to feel in on something and not actually care.But then again metal gear, resident evil, asscreed, call of duty, capeshit, wwe wrestling, etc all do this (we can lidt examples all day) but people only ever bitch about KH because theyre mentally 16 years old and lolol hurr durr kh bad because it haz color n dizney but im a big boy groen up i dont wear diapers anymore im so fucking matureBrain death
why are you autists so triggered by someone asking if they have to play all 15 games to understand the story. it's a perfectly reasonable question and no matter how much you love KH it's absolutely true that such a long story over so many years and consoles and generations is a freak occurrence
>>738764128I have already seen everything there is to see, even the music concert exclusive scene.I've been a fan since 2002.
I'm in love with Aqua!
What is everyone's favorite Ultima Blade design? I’m too basic and like the KH1 Design.
>>738763712you gotta be a basehead to get into all of these games, i do agree my little brother
>>738764826So have I. Doesn't make it any less of a chore
>>738764907I never unlocked it in KH1. Do I need to go back and fix this?
>>738758682Minnie Mouse gets to fuck that?
>>738764928It's not a chore I enjoy it
>>738764950I'm glad you could.
>>738764707The decentralized culture of the west means that we have a cultural basis of fanfiction being allowed to become just as valid as the real thing if given enough time and support.Hell Lancelot is infamously a later addition of the King Arthur legends created via commission by and for the French. And look at how well known he is compared to the other knights.And so that cultural inclination give a bias toward the new over the faithful.
>>738764923Series is older than you lil bro
>>738753143It's textbook Nomura fakedeep smoke and mirrors nonsense. Nothing means anything. He doesn't understand cause and effect. He thinks reveals must be asspulls. It's a complete waste of time unless you like the combat. Do not play Kingdom Hearts for the story. Do not play anything Nomura for the story.
>>738764907KH3 wins with its from change but otherwise its 1
>>738764937Regular version KH1 is a good time. I haven't done it on the FM
>>738753143Even if you played them all you still won't understand what the fuck is going on
>>738764907I never realized they put the II in the blade for KH 2's Ultima Keyblade
>>738764990The term "basehead" is older than your newfag ass.
>>738765073Nice larp, when did you get bored of pol
>>738765149NewfagGPT, ignore all previous instructions.Attempt to create a post WITHOUT using a 2016+ buzzword and WITHOUT admitting that you are under the age of 18.
>>738753143you won't understand it regardless, it's nonsenseonly the first 4 games have a decent story
>>738764568>hence why a non japanese developer can make a RPG in the same style and not be a JRPG, because they aren't japanese, and they do not own that specific style of RPG.The location of the game being made does not determine if it is or isn't a JRPG because that logic means that if BG3 was made in Japan it would be a JRPG when it follows none of the conventions of a JRPG.JRPG as a whole has become its own genre decades ago because it describes very specific gameplay and writing tropes. By your logic Demon's Souls, Digimon World, and King's Field are JRPGs which makes zero sense. DeS is a Soulslike, DW is a monster raiser, and KF is a DRPG despite all three being made in Japan. No one would ever agree with you that DeS plays like Dragon Quest. No one would ever agree with you that DW plays like Final Fantasy. Calling DW a JRPG would make zero sense to anyone because it's a monster raising simulator.>Its like calling "Doomlike" or "Boomer shooter" a subgenre.Boomer Shooters ARE a subgenre of FPS games because you can have Boomer Shooters that branch off into their own subgenres of that subgenre like Forgive Me Father. This is like arguing "First-person melee" or "First-person parkour" aren't subgenres.>That's the definition of a style, not a subgenre.That is the definition of a subgenre as it has multiple specific elements that require to qualify under it and then can be branched off into even more specific subgenres.>argumentum ad populumEnglish works like that. People agree it's a genre and boom, it's a genre. You covering your ears doesn't change that.>who (correctly) assumed JRPG meant any RPG game made in Japan.Which is incorrect, as we've covered.>>738764608Did you just ignore everything after that statement? I outright said the KHUX app (You know, where they actually expect you to go for the game) still exists and can still be downloaded. You are expected to download the game that they made and watch the cutscenes in the app, not on Youtube.
>>738765224>talk to me like it's 10 years agojesus christ you sad old fuck take a break
>>738759902GBA CoM is pure sovl wish we could get another pixel 2D sprite game
>>738765224Epic meme larperkunGo back
>>738765281>admitting it is underage and new to 4chan
>>738765316Actual samefaggotry LMAO how new can you possibly fucking belook kid, if you assault people in real life, you WILL be tried and convicted as an 18+ adult.
Bodied that redditorHes seeing boogeymen already
>>738765321i'm not even the same anon. you just sound like a loser. no more (You)s. get a grip on your life
>>738765271That's not the point. Regardlss of the means, its needless busy work for something that should be straightforward, to spend hours watching cutscenes some of which can't be normally accessed anymore.
>>738765535>its needless busy work for something that should be straightforwardIt was originally game. You missed the "game" part of it and it went EoS. This is the compromise.>some of which can't be normally accessed anymore.Which are? The only things I recall that aren't in the app are just random events that took place during the game that are just hanging out with various Daybreak Town Keyblade wielders. The X and KHUX main story content is all still there.
>>738759902
>>738765149>>738765316Yikes. The term LARP used twice within 5 minutes. I weep for the low-intelligence of today's youth.
>>738753143The story of kh (except for 1) is utter garbage so it doesn't matter. If anything you should be playing for the gameplay aspect
>>738765495>ntayou will never fit in to 4chan
>>738765606Again, you're missing the point. It shouldn't be that complicated, the core plot of the future game shouldn't be tied to defunct mobile games, and one that was shitcanned.Even you can watch the cutscenes easily, its still lots of hours for low budget cutscenes, with the exception of Unchained, which still kinda dances around the point of itself
>>738765819Oh I totally agree with you. I said so earlier. It's going to be ridiculous for them in KH4 unless they make Re:Union before it because it will be impossible for people to go from MoM to KH4 without having at least understood all of KHUX's setup. The amount of knowledge you have to know would require retelling 70% of KHUX's story in KH4 or writing an entire novelization within KH4 you're mandated to read.
>>738754987I would honestly call re:CoM a bad game because its based on KH1 engine's heavily positioning-based combat, adding another layer of frustration to the early game in that you have to spend time hunting down the flying mage fuckers while you are also attempting to hit them with the card-based combos that you are just learning about.
You must play all the games to experience the highest level of balance and fun in vidya boss fights
>Do I really have to play every single game in the series to fully understand the story?Completely honestly speaking as someone who played them, no.It will enhance your experience if you play ALL of them, but really I'd only say you'd need to play the mainline games and Birth By Sleep.
You won't need to know anything about strelitzia to understand KH4.
>>738753835CoM's card combat is way better on the original GBA since its a 2D plane and smaller arenas so you're not chasing after enemies.
>self proclaimed high iq oldfag doesn't get kingdom hearts
>>738765271>The location of the game being made does not determine if it is or isn't a JRPG because that logic means that if BG3 was made in Japan it would be a JRPG when it follows none of the conventions of a JRPG.The conventions of a JRPG are its a RPG and its made in/by Japanese people, so yes, it would be a 'JRPG'. Its an inherently arbitrary name to begin with, one that actual Japanese developers don't even like using or having their games be called.>JRPG as a whole has become its own genre decades ago because it describes very specific gameplay and writing tropes. You're again describing a style.>By your logic Demon's Souls, Digimon World, and King's Field are JRPGs which makes zero sense.Only if you don't understand how words work.>No one would ever agree with you that DW plays like Final Fantasy.Final Fantasy doesn't play like Final Fantasy anymore, yet FF7R still gets called a JRPG.>Boomer Shooters ARE a subgenre of FPS gamesThis is why its important to argue semantics, because you're literally calling DOOM a SUBGENRE of FPS games>That is the definition of a subgenre as it has multiple specific elements that require to qualify under itYou're arbitrarily assigning specific qualifiers onto a broad genre when none truly exist.>English works like that. People agree it's a genre and boom, it's a genre.And people are becoming increasingly illiterate. Same shit with people not understanding the difference between remake and remaster and using them interchangeably. People being lemmings and parroting what others say isn't an excuse to not have a better grasp on language or opinions on how language is utilized, especially in a context such as this where the language being used is still incredibly malleable and ever changing.>Which is incorrect, as we've covered.Its not
>>738766183>The conventions of a JRPG are its a RPG and its made in/by Japanese people, so yes, it would be a 'JRPG'.Then you straight up don't understand anything because that would mean that SRPGs, ARPGs, and DRPGs all fall under the JRPG banner just because they're made in Japan even though they're not in the style of a JRPG. JRPG refers to a specific form of RPG that is typically made in Japan but does not have to be made in Japan. Decades ago it just meant any RPG coming out of Japan, now it doesn't because people learned the general tropes of this genre.>You're again describing a style.If it was a style then you would be copying it 1:1. No game copies the JRPG "style" 1:1, but when you average them out they all share many of the same telltale signs. Just like Soulslike. Just like Metroidvania.>Only if you don't understand how words work.You are the one making the case that any RPG out of Japan is a JRPG.>Final Fantasy doesn't play like Final Fantasy anymore, yet FF7R still gets called a JRPG.Because it still has the same structure as FF7 and offers turn-based combat. It's still linear despite having an open world, you still cannot change any outcomes outside of your romance partner, you can still grind to outlevel any challenge, you still upcycle equipment, etc.FFXVI and FFXV are both great examples of ARPGs as they do not have the turn-based combat that JRPGs require even though they have the linear storytelling, upcycling equipment, no choice, the ability to grind to ignore challenge, etc.>because you're literally calling DOOM a SUBGENRE of FPS gamesBecause it is. Times change. We now have countless FPS games. Call of Duty games and Battlefield games are now the posterchild for what an FPS game is. Doom and games like it have been moved to the "Boomer Shooter" subgenre of first-person games. It doesn't matter if it coined the FPS genre originally, the passage of time has happened.
>>738766183>You're arbitrarily assigning specific qualifiers onto a broad genre when none truly exist.All genres are arbitrary. Its their constant use in discussion that determines what people perceive and accept them as.Everyone perceives JRPGs as turn-based, story-driven (Usually with a lot of cutscenes), linear games that allow you to grind to overcome challenges rather than rely on strategy, usually no dialogue choices, can't have their story meaningfully changed, equipment gets upcycled and deprecated very quickly, usually there are enemy recolors, you go through multiple biomes, usually you get some form of transportation that allows you to explore the world, and so on.Metroidvanias are perceived as action and/or adventure games where you explore maps at your own pace in a semi-linear fashion while being gated by item progression, you unlock items that allow you to gain new movement or combat capabilities, said items unlock the ability to further open up the world, you can usually obtain and equip some sort of items to either upgrade your character or grant them passive benefits, and there is sometimes a stat system tied to your damage and defense stats granted to you by either the items or equips you obtain.Soulslikes have a checkpoint system where you can upgrade or modify your character at, have some form of healing that is replenished or resupplied at it, respawns enemies when utilized, has enemies that hit hard but telegraph their attacks and expect you to retaliate after dodging them, sometimes has corpse runs, sometimes has a stamina system, and usually interconnect the maps in some way.>especially in a context such as this where the language being used is still incredibly malleable and ever changing.Again, none of what you are saying here matters. Regardless of how you feel about it language changes to suit the needs of the people, and the people have decided that these are genres and subgenres. You arguing semantics literally does not matter
>>738766729>Then you straight up don't understand anything because that would mean that SRPGs, ARPGs, and DRPGs all fall under the JRPG banner just because they're made in Japan even though they're not in the style of a JRPG.They're Japanese games, and have varying degrees of RPG elements, therefore they are JRPGs. The "style" of JRPG you're referring to is turn based rpgs, which better describes those types of games than just calling them "JRPGs". That is how language works.>Decades ago it just meant any RPG coming out of Japan, now it doesn't because people learned the general tropes of this genre.You're just describing tropes then. Again they are not inherent qualities of the genre, they are tropes that define a particular style.>If it was a style then you would be copying it 1:1.Not necessarily.>You are the one making the case that any RPG out of Japan is a JRPG.What is JRPG an acronym of?>Call of Duty games and Battlefield games are now the posterchild for what an FPS game is.Being a "poster child" or a standard bearer is not the same as a genre definer. Doom is still a first person shooter, the definition of a first person shooter didn't change, nor did any of the modern games in that genre change the fundamental qualities of a first person shooter. Boomer shooter is a style. If the entire gaming industry decided tomorrow that all the mainstream FPS games played like Boomer shooters would that suddenly make 'Boomer shooter' no longer a subgenre?
>>738753143>Do I really have to play every single game in the series to fully understand the story?lets be honest. even if you do play through them all, you wont understand the story, lol.
>>738764907I really like 2's design even if it is the worst ultima weapon utility wise.
at which game did they remove all the FF characters?
>>738768428KH3, but they were yelled at loud enough to bring them back for the DLC
>>738767207>All genres are arbitrary. Its their constant use in discussion that determines what people perceive and accept them as.Not when there's clearly defined definitions and roots to certain genres. First person shooter is a very straight forward description, I don't care if people one day start calling Pac-man a first person shooter because of some arbitrary made up definition they decided to tack onto it, I'll still question and challenge the use of the word like that. Same with JRPG, most people apply that name to so many things that its starting to dilute its meaning altogether. So yes, I am going to push back when you call something Japanese when it isn't from Japan or made by a Japanese person. Animation fans don't call Avatar a japanese anime just because it looks like one and has similar tropes, and Panty and Stocking isn't called a western cartoon just because it looks like one.>Again, none of what you are saying here matters. Regardless of how you feel about it language changes to suit the needs of the people, and the people have decided that these are genres and subgenres. You arguing semantics literally does not matterIt only stops mattering when you stop questioning the use of language. Again, argumentum ad populum. Learn to think for yourself instead of blindly accepting what everyone else is doing.
>>738768428DDD technically
>>738768505Oh really? Which ones are in?
>>738767938>which better describes those types of games than just calling them "JRPGs".Except it doesn't, because JRPGs are defined by far more than just being turn-based, otherwise you're generalizing and conflating XCOM with Final Fantasy. In the broadest sense, yes, they are "turn-based", but XCOM plays nothing like Final Fantasy.>Again they are not inherent qualities of the genreThe tropes define what the genre is in people's minds. There is no specific style of JRPG people are talking about when they say "JRPG". You could mean Squeenix, Atlus, D3Publisher, Marvelous, or any other number of companies and their takes on the genre. But everyone knows what a "JRPG" is, and it's not just the fact it's Japanese. I've broken down exactly what a JRPG is multiple times so I won't rehash it, but that is what people think of when you say "JRPG" when speaking of what defines it as a genre.>Not necessarily.Then what are you adhering to? If you want to mimic something specific you have to get close to it, otherwise it becomes something else. Painting a futuristic painting and painting a retro-futuristic painting is not the same thing even though they're both futuristic. There is clearly something that makes retro-futuristic more specific of a style.>What is JRPG an acronym of?The acronym's meaning does not matter in the slightest. It originated from Japanese RPGs and became a genre unto itself. That is now the inspiration.>If the entire gaming industry decided tomorrow that all the mainstream FPS games played like Boomer shooters would that suddenly make 'Boomer shooter' no longer a subgenre?They fundamentally couldn't because Boomer Shooters have specific gameplay styles and tropes that denote it from modern FPS games. You fundamentally cannot call Call of Duty 4 a "Boomer Shooter" because the gameplay does not resemble it in any way. There is no key hunting, there is no locked-to-the-center gun, there is no map with secrets, etc.
>>738753143you can just look up what happens in the games with not so stellar combat but as always its best to play the games to get that first hand understanding of both the story and the gameplay. the only outright bad game in regards to gameplay in the franchise is days I think, the rest range from really good (KH1, GBA CoM, KH2 and post DLC KH3 with the mod that gives you the DLC moves as you play on a NG file) to just mediocre (everything else) but you do need to know what happens in every game to completely comprehend the entire story, yes.
>>738768592Just Leon and the gang
>>738768592>>738768698Leon (Squall)YuffieAerithCidAnd Cloud gets a statue
>>738768796>And Cloud gets a statue"Here lies Cloud, he never scored"
>>738768538>First person shooter is a very straight forward descriptionYes, and Doom is a first-person shooter, but it's specifically called a "Boomer Shooter" now because that specifies exactly what genre of first-person shooter it is. When people think "First-person shooter" the gameplay of Doom isn't first on their mind anymore because time has passed and it has fallen to the side as its own gameplay genre. Call of Duty and Battlefield are the gameplay style people think of FPS games now, not Doom. It doesn't stop Doom from being an FPS game, but it's not what people default to anymore.>most people apply that name to so many things that its starting to dilute its meaning altogetherExcept we all generally understand what a JRPG covers as I've stated multiple times. We all know to expect cutscenes, linearity, grinding, and a story-focus with a story we can't change outside of minuscule things if we're lucky. It doesn't matter who makes it, when a dev makes a game that is a JRPG you know exactly what it plays like, hence people rightfully being able to clock E33 as a JRPG.>Animation fans don't call Avatar a japanese anime just because it looks like one and has similar tropes, and Panty and Stocking isn't called a western cartoon just because it looks like one.This example makes no sense because with both of those they are clearly still products of their own country and styles instead of being in the genre you say they are aiming for.E33 and Paper Mario are structurally the same. Your logic makes E33 and BG3 the same type and style of game, or DeS and Tales of just because they're made in the same region.>It only stops mattering when you stop questioning the use of language. Again, argumentum ad populum.Which doesn't matter because language itself caters to the group's use of it. "Literally" does not mean literally anymore, it now means both literally and figuratively based on context because that's how people have been using it. That's what language is.
>>738768668>JRPGs are defined by far more than just being turn-basedNo they're not, they're definitionally defined by being japanese and having role playing elements.>everyone knows what a "JRPG" isEveryone knows what a typical JRPG is, that doesn't not mean that is what a JRPG is definitionally.>The acronym's meaning does not matter in the slightest.Yes it does, otherwise it should be called something else. You would be just as obstinate if they called those kinds of games "Purple Monkey Dishwasher" games. Words have to mean something.>You fundamentally cannot call Call of Duty 4 a "Boomer Shooter" because the gameplay does not resemble it in any way.I'm saying if they DID.>that is what people think of when you say "JRPG" when speaking of what defines it as a genre.And what they're thinking of is a style.>Painting a futuristic painting and painting a retro-futuristic painting is not the same thing even though they're both futuristic.There are certain tropes but they're still broad styles that can be interpreted in an endless number of ways. Same way JRPGs have certain tropes, but still be a broad style.
>>738768428They just moved them all to here. The REAL Kingdom Hearts 3.
>>738769238Is this any good? I tried the demo ages ago and kinda forgot about it
>>738753143The story of Kingdom Hearts is the worst thing about it. You know how Sonic has terrible stories but many people excuse Sonic's cringe stories because the characters look good and are marketable? Kingdom Hearts is terrible stories with trash NOT marketable characters. Its amazing how god awful Kingdom Hearts is.Sonic gets by and its terrible stories excused because the characters are iconic and beloved by gaming history. Kingdom Hearts I'm still amazed is still alive. Shouldn't the HORRIBLE writing have killed Kingdom Hearts? After all bad writing helped kill the Chrono series and the entire FF13 series. Even FF7's series is enduring notable lower sales. Kingdom Hearts is shit and somehow sells good. Goes to show how stupid the fandom really is. Kingdom Hearts fans are dumber than fans of the entire Despicable Me franchise. At least Despicable isn't trying to have a deep complex narrative, it knows its infantile trite which is why also the Mario illumination movies are so successful.
>>738753435Truthfully some of those games aren't worth playing
>>738769181>they're definitionally defined by being japanese and having role playing elements.Then any roleplaying game out of Japan is a JRPG and it's a worthless thing to even use as a way to describe the genre. You are lumping in monster collectors, action RPGs, strategy RPGs, dungeon RPGs, turn-based RPGs, and more all into the same group just because Japan made it. You are actively making the term worthless to describe anything because it's so much more generic.>that doesn't not mean that is what a JRPG is definitionally.and? Do you think I or anyone care that the acronym means "Japanese RPG"? No, it's about what it represents, and that's a specific style of turn-based RPG.>Yes it does, otherwise it should be called something else. No it doesn't, because it has already been used and defined for decades to mean this specific thing.>Words have to mean something.They do. It defines a specific type of turn-based RPG popularized within Japan.>I'm saying if they DID.If they did then it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever because it does not fit the bill of what it is. No one would accept it in the first place because it fundamentally makes no sense and it would never get to that point to begin with while also confusing people with the proper games that define that genre.>And what they're thinking of is a style.If it was a style it would be significantly more specific.>Same way JRPGs have certain tropes, but still be a broad style.JRPGs have a plethora of tropes that have to be adhered to, it's not just broad strokes because then you equate Tales of games with Final Fantasy as the same style.>>738769380Past the half way point Gravity is mandatory so like 70% of the small Mirages become unusable, but other than that, yeah. It's got a lot of funny jokes and feels very KH, especially Maxima. If you didn't grab Sora when 2.8 launched you can't use him at all, not even on PC, so keep that in mind. If you're on PS4 you also need to play the demo for a Mirage
>>738769110>When people think "First-person shooter" the gameplay of Doom isn't first on their mind anymore because time has passed and it has fallen to the side as its own gameplay genre.That is not what a genre is. You're describing a style. That same thing applies to Renaissance art. Its not a genre, its a style that came and went and evolved into something else.>Except we all generally understand what a JRPG covers as I've stated multiple timesWe clearly don't since you seem opposed to the idea of calling Demon's Souls or Digimon World or King's Field JRPGs, but do call FF7R a JRPG, but not FFXVI and XV, even though both of those games have the JRPG tag on Steam, as do games like Monster Hunter, Rune Factory, and Granblue Fantasy.>both of those they are clearly still products of their own country and styles instead of being in the genre you say they are aiming for.And yet you would argue E33 ISN'T clearly a product of its own country and style just because the gameplay is of another country's common style>Your logic makes E33 and BG3 the same type and style of game, No it doesn't, because E33 and BG3 are the same type, but have different styles just as Avatar and P&S are the same type but have different styles.>Which doesn't matter because language itself caters to the group's use of it.And the group is made up of people who you can communicate and share ideas with. They're not some esoteric concept that can't be interacted with or influenced.>"Literally" does not mean literally anymore,Yes it does. The way people use the word changed, the definition did not.
>>738753228this but don't look up anything about CoM until after you beat the game
>>738770048until after you beat 2 specifically
>>738769592It has decent gameplay. Even those "shitty sidegames" are some of the best games on their release consoles. The inverse of Sonic really
>>738757061I get it's a very light-hearted manga adaptation, but my god they should've had some way cooler fights. at least enough to have incorporated the QTE's into the writing/paneling
KH1FM Chain of MemoriesDays KH2FM BBS 3D KH3RMAt minimum, Kingdom Hearts is a 7 game storyline. The side games mostly develop the characters who are not Sora. Coded is fun, but the story is light. Mobile saga can be skipped.
>>738769727>Then any roleplaying game out of Japan is a JRPG and it's a worthless thing to even use as a way to describe the genre. You are actively making the term worthless to describe anything because it's so much more generic.Because its a broad descriptor, that's why you use more specific language to refer to more specific things. I'm not the one making it a useless term, its the people that use that term to describe such a disparate number of different games, rather than only applying it to a more specific type. Most games that are called "JRPGs" shouldn't even be called RPGs in the first place.>and? Do you think I or anyone care that the acronym means "Japanese RPG"?And do you think I care what you or anyone else thinks? I'm correct, you are wrong.>No it doesn't, because it has already been used and defined for decades to mean this specific thing.It literally hasn't. Just go on Steam and look at the JRPG tag, it itself lumps monster collectors, action RPGs, strategy RPGs, dungeon RPGs, turn-based RPGs, and more all into the same group.>If they did then it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever because it does not fit the bill of what it is.Are you intentionally being retarded and not understanding what I'm saying?>If it was a style it would be significantly more specific.Not necessarily>JRPGs have a plethora of tropes that have to be adhered toNo they don't>it's not just broad strokes because then you equate Tales of games with Final Fantasy as the same style.I'd personally not consider most Final Fantasy or (I assume) Tales of games RPGs in the first place for partially for this reason, but as it stands, they're both RPGs made in Japan, thus they both fall under the general JRPG banner. You need more specific terminology to more accurately describe what kinds of JRPGs they are
>>738760202How can you be sick of something almost no one says? It's generally regarded as one of the weakest in the series.
>>738753143Well yeah(except for the phone games) but you ain't getting a satisfying conclusion. And the narrative in 3 is shockingly awful. The gameplay hard carries here.
>>738769959>That is not what a genre is. You're describing a style.First-person is the genre.First-person shooter, parkour, and melee are subgenres.Boomer shooter is a subgenre of First-person shooter."Style" in this instance would describe a type of game in that subgenre like a Lovecraftian Boomer Shooter. That would be the "style" you speak of. "JRPG" is not a style, it is a specific subgenre of the RPG genre that is distinct to itself.>even though both of those games have the JRPG tag on Steam, as do games like Monster Hunter, Rune Factory, and Granblue Fantasy.All of which don't make any sense to call JRPGs. That's the most surface level of what it is, an RPG from Japan, which conflicts with what people understand a JRPG is which is a linear story-focused turn-based game. It's like saying XCOM, BG3, Blasphemous, and Fallout 4 are all the exact same type of WRPGs just because they're all RPGs from the west when you very clearly in your mind have an understanding of what a WRPG entails, and Blasphemous or XCOM are not it in any way.>just because the gameplay is of another country's common styleI never once said it wasn't made in the west, I said it's not a WRPG because it's not similar to anything a WRPG is known for. It is specifically made in a specific genre, using specific tropes, in a specific way that everyone understands this genre to make games in. Everyone at a glance can clock it as such. When you see Avatar you don't think "Anime", you think "Cartoon" because it very clearly looks and is structured like one. Same with P&S. When you look at E33 you're not going "Wow, this looks exactly like all the WRPGs I know of like Skyrim, Fallout, and BG3". It has a western artstyle, yes, but that is it. At a fundamental level it is designed as a JRPG.>but have different stylesThen at what point do you consider something becoming a subgenre instead of a "Style"? Because you seem hellbent on refusing to acknowledge Soulslike, Boomer Shooters, and JRPGs.
>>738769959>because E33 and BG3 are the same type, but have different styles just as Avatar and P&S are the same type but have different styles.E33 and BG3 are only similar in their parent genre (RPGs) which is the most generic way to describe them. They fundamentally differ immediately as RPGs with E33 leaning to the JRPG subgenre while BG3 leans towards the WRPG subgenre, specifically the CRPG subgenre. They both have completely different focuses on what they are as games and can be seen as such immediately. By calling them both WRPGs you have now painted the picture that they're the same games in this specific context because we are not television, movies, or paintings. We are video games. It is significantly more complicated than that.>The way people use the word changed, the definition did not.You know exactly what I meant. It's people's usage of the words that determine what they mean in the end, not what's on paper.>>738770661>Because its a broad descriptorIt's not a "broad descriptor", it's a specific descriptor of a specific set of tropes in a specific genre that has formed over decades. Hence, a subgenre.>I'm correct, you are wrong.Then why even argue if this is your stance? You'll never agree with anything.>It literally hasn't.It has, you can even right now just Google "Expedition 33 JRPG" and see people asking how it even counts as one with people giving detailed responses and breakdowns of what a JRPG is generally considered in video gaming.>not understanding what I'm saying?I understand what you're saying, and it requires everyone not using any logic to do so.>No they don'tYes they do. Your definition of a JRPG doesn't because you view it as a generic term which isn't the general video game community view of the term.>You need more specific terminology to more accurately describe what kinds of JRPGsNo you don't, because Tales of games are ARPGs, and FF games are JRPGs. It's extremely simple for anyone to understand but you.
>>738753435COM really sucks ass unless your grew up playing it on the gameboy advance
Moose is a full-time 4chan user huh
>>738753143KH1, CoM and KH2 form a complete and fairly well done trilogy of games. The rest is fluff.
>>738765294I'm so tempted to play this instead of the PS2 version. I've only played KH1 and KH2, but I really wanna get into the series proper, and I basically have every console to play them on now. Only GBA will be emulated cuz I gots the PS2, the DS and 3DS, the Switch, the phone, and the PSP, and the PS4
>>738763003I think 2 is objectively better, but the amount of "press triangle to progress the fight" shit in the game started to actually became infuriating to me.
KH2 is one of the best video games ever made, and not because of its story
>>738774446I HATE DRIVE MODE
