Why are Byzaboos are the bedrock of every grand strategy game health? Their money carries paradox to this day.
>>738852469Probably because it's a very romantic notion of taken a fallen remnant of a once great empire and restoring it to its former glory, even though all accounts the "Romans" deserved everything and more that was coming to them, whether you look at it purely in terms of morality, real politics or both.
>>738852469Because it's literally the medieval version of "VGH, WHAT COVLD HAVE BEEN".
>>738852469It was funny watching the paypigs buy their shitty broken dlc and scrambling to make excuses for it.
>>738852907Just like how the jews and Israel deserve everything bad they got?
>>738853038>Imagine paying for Paradox content outside of 90% off sales.
>>738852469The Palaiologus were a good Imperial House. No irony.
>>738853114Yes? Anon, the Gayreeks and Kikes have done some truly heinous shit that by all accounts justifies them become slave races to their victims if your believe in that sort of garbage. As do the British, Americans, French, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Japa- you get the point.That aside, an Empire in real terms only "deserves" to fall if it can no longer sustain itself, and the Byzantines did a damn good job of hollowing out their effectiveness even disregarded the plagues and shit that hit them, to say nothing of the Jews.
>>738852907This kek Byzantine faggots deserved it all
>>738853114Jews deserve to be cemented inside their bunkers and forced to eat eachother
>>738853038pay?
>>738853359>and the Byzantines did a damn good job of hollowing outThey never could move past their faggoty need to mask themselves as a "republic" even to the detriment of the state.No codified succession laws was so fucking dumb!
What's a setting that (You) want to get a Grand Strategy Game?I unironically think Mesoamerica would be a good fit for one, incredibly dynamic politics with city-states and kingdoms backstabbing each other with situational alliances and pledges to take out their existing capitals and rivals; webs of political marriages and dynastic ties leading to complex succession disputes and different states getting tangled up in larger conflicts etc kinda defines Aztec, Maya, Mixtec etc civilization and their political scenesNever played a Crusader King title but this seems like exactly what they're about
Roads to power was the byzaboo wet dream. The best shitting over feudal kingdoms is peak.
Can't wait for this to release so I can get even more satisfaction of smothering the most serene republ*c in it's crib.
>>738852469Because "What if Rome survived to the modern day?" is a funny what if.In practice if Byanztium was still around today it would probably be some random microstate tax haven nobody bothered to annex during both world wars.
>>738855104Such a small state couldn't have possibly survive. The ERE last chance was during the 11th century before Manziket. Had the kept the balkans and anatolia they would have been golden.
>>738854958I hope this is actually good. Merchant republics in CK2 felt like an unfinished idea.
>>738853359>done some truly heinous shitlike what?
>>738855290>Such a small state couldn't have possibly survive.It hypothetically could have as a client state. By the time of Realpoliticks it might have managed on the basis of "Nobody wants to give a place this important to it's rivals"
>>738855515>JewsZionismHelping American/British capitalism>GreeksMass murder all around the continent.Slavery Normalizing homosexuality.
>>738853405along with their enemy, the followers of the desert pig-demon allah. may all sandniggers die horrible, painful deaths, and may their souls be tortured into all eternity.
>>738852469Because Christian East is exalted
>>738855634i thought you were serious
>>738855634>Anti-zionist, anti-capitalist, anti-slavery homophobeyou meet the most interesting people on 4chan
>>738852907The Roman empire ceased being meaningfully Roman centuries before the Byzantine empire was established, they were just larpers
>>738855634greek were mass-murderers? hearing of that one for the first time.>>738855771homophobia is a social construct, it's actually just disgust at pedophiles
>>738855852when was the byzantine empire established and by whom??
>>738855771I am mostly pro gays but I'm trying to understand the right winger mindset. >>738855906>greek were mass-murderers?I mean, who wasn't back then.
>>738853359>>738855515Resisting the Holy Persian Empire>In a posthumously published fragment, he deplores a lost historical opportunity: "It was much more fortunate if Persians became masters (Herr) of the Greeks, than the very Romans." (SW, 8/65) In this note Nietzsche reveals, once more, his radical opposition to the Greek metaphysical thought, as developed by Socrates and Plato, which later, by supremacy of the Greek culture inside the Roman Empire, became dominant and then integrated into the other-worldly, 'nihilistic', tenets of Christianity. While, in his view, the dominance of the positive outlooks of the Persians toward worldly life and time would have prevented the prevalence of such a sinister event in human history.
>>738855634Greeks did not normalize homosexuality. They normalized shaming them publicly. Stop following old kike narratives from public school.
>>738855771>>Anti-zionist, anti-capitalist, anti-slavery homophobeCongratulations you just described National Socialism.>Uh acshually Hitler supported Zionism?Yeah to get the Jews to fuck off over there, not to support them in perpetuity.
>>738856159Sounds like some faggot self-loathing shit you'd see your coastal leftoid write.
>>738856239It depended on the city state but they absolutely did not. Germans and even Romans were way more homophobic.
>>738856239I've seen enough direct quotes of greek authors lusting over boys to know you're full of shit
>>738856159If Persians won we would be colonizing space by now.They also would have never let the German problem get out of hand.
>>738856290>you just described National SocialismBut that anon was anti murder
>>738856382>I saw 3 quotes about it, therefore it was commonly acceptedkek
>>738856448Mostly typhus.
>>738856402True. Alexander the Great (PBUH) knew this and sought to create a GRECO-PERSIAN-ARABIAN-INDIAN-CHINESE EMPIRE>>738856323Congratulations on reading it through buddy. Proud of you
>>738856159>>738856402Nietzsche is not a serious authority on history (or anything else lets be real)
>>738856554>80 million people dead>Mostly Typhus
>>738856159Becoming Saoshyant and having a soulmate sister-wife and lovers daughter-concubines is peak.
>>738856617He's honestly mostly correct.
>even /v/ is making fun of eu5 nowIt's over
>>738856617You should read stuff for yourself and decide.
>>738856742>Even >Now
>>738856773I read that you're a fag in this cool post by me.
>>738856667If prisoners dying in captivity counts as murder, then every state is guilty of it, and the comparisons are pointless.
>>738852469The restoration of Rome is the unconscious goal of every grand strategy enjoyer.
Reminder that the Gayreeks mocked Persians for being too pale. >>738856681BASED
>>738855634Jews sound based
>>738855771isn't that just stalinism?
>>738852907Tbh Byzantines got very decent ending for their empireThere were so many chances it would end in rather embarrassing way>Germgroids destroying your empire againSolved by literal miracle with nicean general retaking city using just 500 soldiers (took 100k for ottos)>Literally humiliated to maximum cuck (who attacked his own city on otto demand just to stay in power) gets besieged Solved by Timur cucking ottos sultan to death which stopped the siegeInstead they got honourable last emperor who lead defence and didn't run in his pajamas(like latin emperor lol) when walls fell
>>738857058Stalin was one of the most significant zionists of the last century.
>>738852469WE WUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ ROMAAAAAAAAAANS N SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIET
>>738858589Romans larped as Trojans
>>738856681you will never make incest not gross
>>738858628It's actually more plausible than you think.
I just find it very hilarious how desperate Greeks were to link Romans to them even before the split.
>>738858906Where do you get that from?
>>738858906>Things nobody has ever said
>>738858906Iirc before the christianization of the empire the greeks within even when they became roman citizens continued to view and call the latin romans barbarians as cato angrily says. are you sure you are not switching that up?
>>738859063Dionysius. >>738859213I don't think people quite understand that identifying yourself as the people who were oppositional to the Greeks likely means you don't identify with said Greeks.
>>738859213This sounds like extreme cope on the Greek side of things.>Fucking barbarians ruling over us superior folk.
>>738859341>Dionysius.where?
>>738852907Someone should go back in time and tell them that rubbing glass into a young Enrico Dandalo's eyes will not work out too well for them.
>>738859630Antiquitates RomanaeIt's basically one giant cope insisting they're being ruled by fellow Gre*ks.
>We are above those disgusting barbaric Romans!>We are the true remnant of Rome!You know, Turkey insisting they're all steppefags makes sense now.
>>738856875Pretty sure hes talking about the giant world war
>>738856581Alexander was a retard that destroyed his empire as quickly as he gained it by pitting his generals against each other. Also he died like a bitch. So much for being a god
>>738860705He was a fantastic conqueror.just not good at governing
>>738860938While it can't be denied he was truly special. I do find it funny how often some of his greatest "conquests" were just handed over to him.>Alexander rolls up>brutally murdered everyone in a city a few months ago>local governor who gets scared>gets handed the entirety of Egypt without a single battle
>>738855852try to think about a single modern nation on earth that isn't larping
>>738858637Why are you gay
>>738861436If you were going to point at anything as evidence, you may as well have pointed at his army his father made for him beforehand. That was the real handout.>>738861563fair
>>738861436Harsh punishment of resistance seems to have been the norm rather than the exception.Surrendering and being spared is preferable.
>>738861563most european countries aren't larping as foreign civilizations afaik
>>738862849The last 500 years happened because all the europeans decided to larp as Romans,It was called the Renaissance, maybe youve heard of it
>>738854958FALLO ANCORADADDY DANDOLO
>>738863158taking inspiration from other peoples is not the same as claiming to be those other people, please reconsider your definition of larping
>>738863313kek
i wonder what the world would look like today if the mongols or the huns weren't stopped
>>738863158The last 500 years happened because Spain kicked off its Jews and got its shit together right after.
>>738863827What the fuck were they going to do against actual armies instead of steppe peasants and squabbling muslims?
>>738863313>VeniggerNapoleon and the Hapsburgs done nothing wrong.
>>738858906The Greeks had to explain Rome's rise to themselves somehow and their solution was to claim that the Romans were a remnant of Troy.The Romans found this story flattering and because it was somewhat in line with their own mythic history they were happy to accept it.
>>738864021i need a pepe roman and seething basedwojack greek meme now
>>738863346The renaissance was major larping by any reasonable definitionAlso there's a lot of shitflinging against byzantines for pretending to be Roman when they were literally the continuation of the Roman empire and that just meant more than language did historically.Tradcaths and europhiles applying nationalist language based definitions to call byzantines "not roman" is funny because those same definitions destroyed Catholic power and are probably destroying modern europe too
>>738854670>>738854670>>738854670Nobody wants to talk about their most desired grand strategy settings? Surely some of you have ideasalso bumping this with one of my favorite mesoamerican historical figures involved with dynastic feuds and succession spats, love the classic "one boy he left alive grew up to overthrow him" twist at the end (though I actually got some details wrong in this writeup, I'll need to make an updated corrected greentext at some point)>>738864081I have like 40 Mesoamerican and Andean wojaks, chadfaces, and pepes if you want those
>>738864116>because those same definitions destroyed Catholic power and are probably destroying modern europe toowhat do you mean?
>>738864221meso autist, is that you, fren?i saw you in an apocalypto thread the other day
>>738852469never got the appeal of Byzantium.
>>738856159>Nietzsche"philosophers" who are mentally instabile were a detriment of western thinking.
>>738864524le last bastion of civilizationdespite the fact the western world was advancing past byzantium and self-latinizedand all the byzantines really did was lose after HeracleusIt's really more of a tragedy. A once legendary hero suffering from Alzheimer's type shit. He thinks he's still that guy. But his brain is mush. it was decades ago. He can't even speak properly anymore. To the very end, he insists he is the man he once was while all anyone can see is a twisted fragment of what once was.
>>738864524Purple and Gold are cool colors.
>>738856991nope, its always the reestablishment of the HRE and ultimately Großdeutschland.
>>738864754you can get that with rome thoughand the byzantine purple was noticeably far more red than purple
>>738864819i think my eyes are bleeding
>>738864315Yes>>738864524I can't say I know much about it but >>738864754 beat me to my gut reply here
>>738852469>"The city is fallen and I am still alive."
>>738865236i wuv u, fwenfor me, meso-americans are muh ancestors, besides having a metal mythology and great aestheticsthe spanish are also muh ancestors and my preferred CK2 starting location because i get to bully muzzies, the french, and ital*ansproto-Russian slavs and Iranians also fascinate me
>>738864247The argument that says byzantines are not roman because romans must speak latin is based on the argument that language defines people better than institutions do, which was developed by liberal nationalists in the 18th through 20th centuries to tear down the monarchies and the catholic church in europe. This is why tradlarpers are being hypocrites when they use that argument.Those same ideas first launched two world wars then transformed into civic nationalism in Western Europe, and were used in Eastern Europe to create a false recovery from communism for the benefit of local elites. Really this is just one aspect of the problems with Europe today so I was overselling the second part of that statement
>>738865548how about they speak greek, live in greece, and identify as greek?
>>738864116>Tradcaths and europhiles applying nationalist language based definitions to call byzantines "not roman" is funny because those same definitions destroyed Catholic power and are probably destroying modern europe toothat sentence makes it sound like you are defending the honor of byzantines as a way to channel modern political, ethnic or religious grievances. you should consider that different people naturally view history differently or at least emphasize different things since they have varying perspectives on which events were important and why.if if you feel like catholics or europeans are wrong then feel free to stick to your own non-catholic non-european historical interpretations but that shouldn't require for you to claim that all history ever is just varying degrees of "larping".also here are some words from an american protestant from the early 20th century
>>738852469git gud rome is still called rome meanwhile costantinople is called istanbul
>>738859646This is actual bullshit.
>>738865681Greece became "New Rome" like two thousand years ago and westweenies never got over it
>>738865548i thought the rich launched the world wars for money and land, same as always?
>>738865695None of that text was actually true for constantinian Rome or most of byzantine history, but it does describe America for the last 70 yearsAlso on the topic of bias, all discourse on this in English is fundamentally tainted by the fact that it's been a protestant language for half a millennium so most English writers have inherited a profound hatred for Rome. They hate the eastern romans primarily because they can't imagine why someone would call themselves Roman if they didn't have to
>>738866131>rome is still called romeNot for long, if Abdullah has anything to say about it
>>738852469>Byzaboos
>>738866869if you think the people who own rome aka the rich and the church will allow some smelly illiterate dirtperson to rename rome you're out of your mind
>>738860705>>738860705His generals were greedy bastards who poisoned him
>>738866561>Also on the topic of bias, all discourse on this in English is fundamentally tainted by the fact that it's been a protestant language for half a millennium so most English writers have inherited a profound hatred for Rome. They hate the eastern romans primarily because they can't imagine why someone would call themselves Roman if they didn't have toUhhhhhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism
>>738867559Yeah but this doesn't explain the distaste and rhetoric getting much worse later, after the English schismed again from rome Arguably the low point of byzantine pr was Gibbon's decline and fall and his brainworms were extremely and characteristically english, further turbocharged by the ongoing söylightenment
>>738867373"Istanbul" originates from the smelly illiterate dirtperson nickname for the city, the rich turks didn't call it that but we're long past the time Muslim leaders had any restraint or pretended to be above their peers
>>738866869lmao byzaboos are truly pathetic
>>738868043Konstantinyye?
>>738865245The marble emperor will be awakened. He will send the roaches back ro central asia.
>>738866561americans in no way hated rome despite speaking english, the founders of the country took a great deal of inspiration from the roman republic. naturally they shunned the oriental despotism that perverted rome later since it reminded them of what they viewed as british monarchical tyranny which they had just fought against.again it just sounds like you are motivated by modern ethnic grievances. idk if you are a jeet, a russian, some eastern european chauvinist or whatever but surely you can find better ways to hate on the capitalistic white racist elites (or however you define the evil western other) than making up blatantly false claims which can be easily disproven
>>738868260anon, i...i...the turks are greek
>>738868375Not in their hearts they ain't.
>>738868612genealogy says otherwise
>>738868309>naturally they shunned the oriental despotism that perverted rome later since it reminded them of what they viewed as british monarchical tyranny which they had just fought against.Yes, this is what I'm talking about.Building your government so it's like Rome "if it never went bad" isn't *really* something you do if you like rome, since you are basically saying you hate its peak and wish it never progressed to that conclusion. The empire is the only reason Rome actually matters millennia later, meaning the only reason people claim to like the Republic instead is modern political grievances against "tyranny", which is the flip side of what you're accusing me ofMaybe to bring it back to the point of the thread, lots of people like byzantium because it's tragic and we can project something poetic onto them and they went out in some kind of epic last stand instead of rotting into a soulless digital hellhole like the world we actually live in
>>738868708I'd argue it's still really schizophrenic because the Romans didn't use the same democratic republic system of government we ended up using anyway. At best, we use Roman law and aesthetics.
>>738852469Byzanbooism only works in fiction, and in fiction specifically aimed at political larping, because that's an excuse for uchronic power fantasies. It also pairs well with autism. People that like Italy will just enjoy some games set in a Mediterranean setting. Francophiles can just have a game with Gothic or Art Deco esthetic.
>>738868708>you are basically saying you hate its peak and wish it never progressed to that conclusionthe empire wouldn't have existed without the republic and the republic became the greatest power of the ancient world long before the principate was established, and even the principate was organized by augustus according to a republican-inspired model, which later deteriorated due to racial and cultural decay.people who appreciate the republic typically do so because they prefer free forms of government instead of autocracies or tyranny in general, and a "a soulless digital hellhole like the world we actually live in" is much closer in spirit to the post-republic rome than the pre-empire rome
>>738852469But the biggest and most important DLC for CK3 was AUH by a wide margin
>>738869581The republics intractable problems and successes are inevitably intertwined, the unrest at the end of the period was a direct result of the military oligarchy turning on itself and using their prominent external successes to mutilate the interior. It was the growing pains of a small military society expanding to the rest of the continent and it was already practically dead by the time it was much larger than Italy proper. It was all foreshadowed by issues like plebeian ascendancy and the Social War. Meanwhile the principate just used republican institutions like window dressing from the very start.The decay you're talking about is the process of romanization, which is why Rome matters to europeans today who are basically descended from upjumped German mutts in the 5th centuryYour last paragraph is reading too much into my comment about the modern day and you're making a false comparison. I would say that the major difference between modernity and all historical economic zones/empires is that there is no high culture anymore, so even if history has always been driven by greedy elites, they don't even have anything to show for it these days. They're just shallow retards who we have to put up with. I have talked to European bureaucrats at conferences and when you push them on it a bit, they just mumble reheated end of history slop arguments from the 90s
>>738853114You're not going to assuage your nation's guilt by inverting the responsibility, yuropoor.
>>738869134Anon, that's nonsense.
>>738852469Rome buff and depending on time period reclaiming the west and/or kicking the turks out as the underdog alt hist option is just what a lot of people play such games for.
>>738852469*Burns your path*
>>738875638>humiliates your race, religion and kingdomNothing personal kiddo.
>>738875861Atilla cucked the Western empire.
>>738876497lollmao
>>738866561>>738868708cope more shitskin
>>738853359>As do the British, Americans, French, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Japa-This is gibberish philosophy, you can find an original sin for literally any society on this planet.
>>738856159Didn't Rome start out as a pet project of Troy colonizing the Italian peninsula before there was no Troy left? Better the devil you know, than the icky foreigners to the east.
>>738855104So, basically a secular Vatican, who is also arguably kind of a remnant of Rome.
>>738852469>ΥΓΗ
>>738856991>VGH!
>>738864819HOME
>>738852469Byzantines outlawed jews from public office or teachers of the youth and they were the longest lasting empire to date.
>>738865681The first Romans were literally Greeks teaching the native Italians how to into civilization
>>738881035More or less, but most likely consisting out of all of Constantinople.
>>738881941>The first Romans were literally GreeksThis is simply not trueThe romans did borrow a lot from the greek but rome wasn't in an area with greek colonies, that was sicily.
>>738881941lol no
>>738880532All of these societies are uniquely cruel and evil.
>>738881712Really makes ya think
>>738881712
>>738882090If all societies are cruel and evil then how did we end up in a pleasant and remarkably comfortable society compared to the state of nature?
>>738853114The cool thing about Israel is it retroactively justified the holocaust
>>738883210Jesus
>>738852994>VGH, WHAT COVLD HAVE BEENThat's what all of their games are about.
>>738854670Stellaris, but limited to the Solar System and maybe a few nearby ones.
>>738864819>>>
