>everyone should be rewarded for their hard workand>everyone should have equal opportunitysounds pretty reasonable to me
>>738881523Thats the point of the game, Andrew did nothing wrong apart from letting shitters into his city.
SEA SLUGS
>>738881523This changed when he started having competition is the issue.
>>738881523if the city was so great why did he have to force everyone to stay
>>738881782US society looks like splicers more and more without a magic slug. Madonna literally looks like one.
>>738881523Levine is a left-wing jew and this game was an attack on Objectivism/LibertarianismThe 'moral' is that one bad person can twist this system to their own benefit and fuck it upOf course that goes for any form of society so really its just stupidI notice Libertarianism was popular in the 00s amongst left-leaning types and seemed to have died off right after Bioshock was releasedProbably a coincidence though
>>738881523sounds like woke commie shit to me
>>738881523>everyone should have equal opportunityExcept he believes in the opposite of that. No public schools, monopolized housing, the rich kids get an education and a fortune as a head start.Also>entire system gets torn down by one man who could play the game better than anyone else>"NO NO STOP YOU YOU HAVE TO HAVE MY MORALS FOR THIS SYSTEM TO WORK IT'S NOT A FAIR TEST IF ANYONE ACTS DIFFERENT THAN ME, AN ANARCHO LIBERTARIAN! HELP, GOVERNMENT! HELP! THE BAD MAN IS BREAKING MY PERFECT CITY BY NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES THAT I HAVE NO ABILITY TO ENFORCE!
>videogame about a bunch of rich elites in a private corner of the world who believe they're above normal society, surrounded by water, engaging in hedonistic acts against nature, while also abusing children
>>738881523yeah, but that's communism
>>738881523Ryan is an untrue libertarian. As he says right before his death, the only thing he cares about is himself. Libertarianism is a reactionary ideology he developed based on being persecuted by the soviets. The only thing that Ryan actually believes in is not being persecuted by anyone, and so he is initially a libertarian of convenience when he sees it as being the ideology of being left alone to do his business shit. But then his libertarian utopia becomes a breeding ground for evil grifters like Fontaine, and so Ryan in response drops the libertarian shit and just becomes a full on dictator.
>>738883612Are you sure you aren't getting libertarianism mixed up with objectivism?
>>738883243Starmer's UK...
>>738881523Except Rapture still needed jannies, fisherman, cashier clerks. Ryan's design falls apart when people realize that not everybody can be a socialite, which is why people turned on him in the first place.
>>738881523The problem is that people like Ryan or other CEOs should be paid less than the welders and big daddies who were building the city because physical work is arguably harder than managing assets. Even more so with technology like The Thinker computer that can run the city by itself.
>>738881523Gay jew
>>738881523The major plot point of the story is, that his idealism will all collapse when he dies, in his case before he even died.The old man in Robocop is similar, OCP and scumbags politicians started picking his dream apart like vultures after he died.
>>738881523>Enjoy your freedom>NO, NOT LIKE THAT!The fate of every lolber and randroid
>kill and eat the children>get a rewardOR>don't kill and eat the children>get a slightly smaller reward>still end up getting bigger rewards as thanks for not killing and eating childrenThe (((devs))) thought this was a moral dilemma.
>>738881948Objectivism actually is as retarded as Bioshock portrays it. Source: have actually suffered through Ayn Rand.
>>738885152well if you played the game naturally you never really kept track of the rewards but I know you zoomers love your guides and video walkthroughs and tips and tricks!
>>738881523>get all the hard workers in one place>still limited demand for skilled labour>someone has to clean the toilets>unrestricted liberties leads to the haves strangling the liberties of the have-nots with no laws to stop them, making the whole philosophy a paradox>doesn't care, refuses to change anything until it affects him>once it does, he goes full 1984He's a hypocritical retard.
>>738885370I did play the game naturally faggot. I didn't kill the little sisters, and after every 2 I saved this bitch would radio me to say THANKS FOR SAVING THEM, I'VE LEFT A MASSIVE STASH OF ADAM FOR YOU AT THE VENDING MACHINE which easily outweighed the "loss" from not murdering them.Nigger.
>>738885370People have realized this on release, dipshit. Well maybe not you since you're retarded.
Someone is always going to work harder and giving equal opportunity just means the retards will drag the overachievers down.Funny how we've been living through this for nearly 2 decades.
>>738881523Where are those rewards supposed to come from? Society functions through trade, not as a prize exhibition.
>>738886043>equal opportunity just means the retards will drag the overachievers down.How are you supposed to gauge someone's capability if you don't give them a chance to demonstrate it?
>>738883243>Andrew Ryan, born in a village near Minsk[7] in the Russian Empire, grew up in a Jewish-Russian family[8] during the reign of the Tsar. Minsk was on the front lines in the First World War. In 1917 he witnessed the Russian Revolution, which eventually brought the Bolsheviks into power[9] and also destroyed Ryan's family's business.[10]
Neither of those things happened in Rapture.The commentary is that libertarian ideals like this are just really shallow thinking from narcissistic idiots, and that if any of this was actually put into practice it would collapse immediately and horrifically.
I can't believe I actually read through all of atlas shrugged. Genuinely the worst shit I've read in my life.The average hentai doujin has more literary value, the self inserts are more believable characters in those at least.
>>738887609You don't understand. Libertarianism is whatever socioeconomic / political system that allows ME to win, not others.I gauge the value of everyone around me by their ability to approximate my abilities and my worldview. If someone is succeeding and they are not like me then the system is rigged.
>>738887609Because the retards are pretty obviouys.Look up no child left behind, a bush policy in 2k.
>>738888269your strawman makes zero sense, maybe you should read more before speaking about things you don't know much about
TRUST IN THE INVISIBLE HAND
>>738883140The theory is that a lack of public education will create opportunities for affordable private education.Why should the law dictate what is taught when the community can teach each other in a mutually beneficial manner?Besides, all you really need these days to learn is internet access.
>>738884115This. Also believing that everyone is born in some tabula rasa existence and everyone who deserves to be at the top just rises there naturally and completely by the "sweat of their own brow" as he puts it in some cosmically fair race is a ridiculous world view.
>>738891094How would they rise to the top otherwise?
>>738881523It all breaks down when you introduce niggers.>think they work hard when doing nothing>give them any opportunity and they will sell crack
>>738885370You're right in the initial choice you don't know, but when you're rewarded for it with more power in the end it just defeats the point of it. This was def a case where the devs caved because they thought they needed to cater to the player's mechanical urges, when the whole point was that the reward would be something more intangible. Having the little sisters holding your hand on your deathbed would have meant a lot more if you left Rapture with a slot or two of your plasmids slots empty and unupgraded.
>>738891020The private schools near me suck and are basically just a vehicle for the church to indoctrinate their next generation.
interesting how quiet the don't tread on me crowd has been the past two conservative terms.
>>738891189They rise partially by being born with the right genes, being at the right place at the right time, having a certain upbringing, all things you didn't earn yourself. Because of this you need a balanced systems where people are both rewarded for putting in the work and achieving excellence by giving them greater wealth and status, while at the same time helping others who were not so lucky by sharing some of your resources and goodwill, and also acknowledging that you cannot be where you are unless the others under you do the work for you. Bismarck knows this. social democrats also know this.
>>738881523But niggers don’t work hard and they want more than what they’ve earned.
>>738881948It's not an attack on Objectivism. The game is about a utopia built by a jewish man (Andrew Ryan) that is destroyed by an evil white goyim man (Frank Fontaine/Atlas). It's Loxist propoganda.
>>738887864He's basically the Levine's stand-in for Ayn Rand.
>>738891775I used to be very libertarian, but as I got older and seeing how easily they fall for populism and the threat of organized hostile foreign actors, I'm leaning towards more orthodox economics and pro-market liberal democracy.I've realized that people mostly choose their ideologies based on Aura and vibes instead of rational discourse.
>>738881630>Andrew did nothing wrongHe didn't do anything right either. He got mad because Frank Fontaine followed through on the ideals Rapture was built on. Ryan literally betrayed his own philosophy for the purpose of bringing down Fontaine, only to be outjewed by him. Ryan was a hypocrite and the game is very clear in conveying that fact.
>>738891189On the backs and work of others. Andrew Ryan didn't personally and by his own divine level of intellect, machinations, charm, athleticism and poise earn his fortune nor build Rapture this way. The guy has some kind of disassociation with reality and god complex and even when someone turns his own rhetoric against him he doesn't accept that. Even when hes getting killed by his own son he doesn't have the introspection to get it.
>>738883924UK has actually improved under Starmer, which is why he's attacked so relentlessly by JFs like yourself
>>738889157>Because the retards are pretty obviouys.Ironic.>Look up no child left behind, a bush policy in 2k.The American "education" system is such a dysfunctional farce at every level that drawing assumptions about innate ability from it is insane.
The actual solid argument against objectivism from this game is what happens when someone who's well etablished in a system starts getting outcompeted?They respond with violent gatekeeping, no one wants to lose their established power and livelihood, what happens to workers that spend their entire lives in an industry that suddenly becomes obsolete, just throw everyone out and let them starve? Safety nets are necessary for society to not descend into chaos.
>>738891020>The theory is that a lack of public education will create opportunities for affordable private educationThis has never happened nor will ever happen. And no, church schools are not private because the church is the opposite of a private institution unless it's a grift cosplaying as a church.
>>738892238>fall for populism and the threat of organized hostile foreign actorsA lot of more extreme left wing ideologies have this problem too. The most annoying thing I see about political discourse is that no one wants to give up anything, it's all just eat the cake and have it too. Like if you're a Bernie camp guy you have to advocate for limited migration and some form of minor nationalism to go with it or it makes no sense. No ones ever like "I like liberal democracy, but in order for the illusion of everyone living together pretending they're choosing variety we need to have a monoculture, because people don't actually want other cultures not like theirs in the same space", there's never an admittance to this.>picIntelligence agencies just never stop exceeding their capacity for evil it's unreal.I wonder if there was ever a chance you could have discontinued them or never invented them at all or if the forces of information technology and ease of travel were just too strongly incentivizing their creation so we always would have these evil fucks.I can just see some timeline where having shadowy orgs like this doing shit would be abhorrent to ppl and they wouldn't stand for it, but maybe not.
>>738892238what book?
>>738881936Do you really believe Madonna represents US society?
You know how steam is going to be gigafuck the microsecond Gaben's heart stops working? It's kinda like that.
>>738885282Objectivism is retarded and evil, but I think Ayn Rand is a pretty good writer, desu, especially Fountainhead
>>738891525>>738892871Well there's currently no need for it due to everyone relying on public education. The only reason christian schools exist is because their theology isn't taught in public curriculums.
>>738893329there should be some necrocracy equivalent option for companies where the founder can force certain things to never change upon their death.
>>738891775>right genesAh yes, the gene to not be a lazy and retarded fuck.
>>738881523Because it didn't work out in practice.
>>738892217His name is literally an anagram for Ayn Rand, with a few extra letters.
>>738885370I realized this on my first playthrough as a child.
>>738885152The (correct) moral is that on the long term cooperation is superior! That's the point of the game.
>>738891298>>738891880The city was built underwater, he tried to take precautions.
>>738891020>all you really need these days to learn is internet access.All you really need to get a degree is that anon.Then you look at the actually quality of work being produced and the skill drain that has taken a dramatic hold of engineering and construction in general and you learn how "accessible" education has translated into "skill-less qualified" employees.
Honest question because its a sequel I don't see talked about much here. How is Bioshock 2?
>>738893017You can't not have an intelligence agency and they must have a certain amount of leeway to operate in the shadows in order to be effective, but at the same time, if they have too much power and single-handedly run the nation, they'll ruin it.My personal view is that it's similar to war and geopolitics, everyone wants to improve their station in life and to have your Nation outcompete and outwrestle others is a way to achieve and secure higher standarts of living, the way Nations compete against each other is a natural extension of that desire.
>>738894418good, but it's a straightforward sequel and doesn't reinvent the wheel or try to be anything groundbreaking so it didn't live up to the hype and kind of got forgotten. at the very least it's significantly better than infinite.
>>738893213Not that anon, but it's Spymaster: My Thirty-two Years in Intelligence and Espionage Against the West by Oleg Kalugin. A similar tactic is still being used by Russia and other countries against the US. A whole lot of the extremist /pol/ shit you see online is fake or artificially amplified.
>>738885152>short term benefits pale in comparison to doing good and proving your virtuousnessBased?
>>738893513yes, unironically those among a million other things you take for granted and that others who judge you take for granted about themselves, none of which they chose and were just born into as
>>738894708>A whole lot of the extremist /pol/ shit you see online is fake or artificially amplified.no, most americans are exactly as dumb as they seem. it's not fake but you can cope as hard as you want to.
>>738894497A time before mass printed writing where most things you think and know aren't decided by anyone more than a few miles away is mind-boggling to think about what that was like. It's like pre soft power shit.
