What does she want?
grandchildren
>>738945842for her grandchildren lawyers?
the chaos emeralds. she wants absolute christmas
>>738945743Imagine her ice-cold fingers on your prostate
big soul cock
blue lipstick marks on my asshole.
would rudy mind if i asked her to jerk me off
anyone have the edit of this?
>>738945842Her daughter is gay. not happenin
>>738949476
>>738950217That's where YOU come in. It's up to YOU to save the Holiday bloodline
>>738950394thx
How did la goblina like her manage to birth such a powerful succubus?
>>738951641She's a Krismas miracle
>toby publically rapes the latinx community over them begging him for a translation>he then prosneeds to confirm lancer is ethnically bavarianwtf based toby
>>738951641Goblina? Carol is an amazon MILF and Noelle is following in her footsteps. (Hoofsteps?)
carol should weigh at least 250 pounds
>>738945842closest she's going to get is me knocking her up and noelle raising the kidsyes carol is hotter than noelleno i won't listen to any debates on the matter
>>738951880*noelle
>>738945743Total control of the Prophecy (it's working)
>>738951995
She wants to vacuum suction the soul right out of Kris' pingas
>>738952173Yeah, with her ass.
bread
>>738945743Generals belong in >>>/vg/
>>738951995noelle should be at least 300
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z7x_hu4t4YSome of you will listen to this shit and say "I don't get it, why does everyone think she's a bad guy?"
>>738945743>Force the prophecy>Summon angel>Capture angel>?????????>Watch christmas specials on TV with the family again
>>738952313Sir, hold on. You've forgotten your paycheck!
>>738950217>not happenin
>>738952313oh yeah?
>>738952364the problem with Toby's wring is that he was so subversive the last time around that nobody trusts him anymore. people are primed to doubt him when his games imply that Carol is a villain or that Ralsei is trustworthy
>>738952313I'm only here for the doeussy. Let them talk about the game in autistic detail in the general.
>>738952614I trust him with my life. Always have, always will
>>738952614>the problem with Toby's wring is that he was so subversive the last time around that nobody trusts him anymorewhat the hell game did you play to make you think that?
>>738952854This. Some of you guys talk about Toby like he's Hussie. He really isn't.
>>738952854>funny skeleton man? he's actually a tragic figure trying his best to stop the player from doing something bad>the evil king the game's been setting up? actually a good guy>fighting enemies like in any other game? actually that's evil and will lock you out from the good ending>tutorial character that was nice to you through the entire tutorial and only wanted the best for you? actually a bad person who wanted to genocide humans!it's a mystery why people would think Toby wants to subvert expectations
>>738953280All of that is established within the first hour of the game, there's no "le epic subversion rugpull">fighting will lock you out from the good ending>tutorial wanted to genocide humans!Except for these parts where you're actually just wrong and retarded
>>738945743Finally getting around to replaying 3+4 to get Chapter 5-ready saves. Does Chapter 3 have anything important to grab besides the egg and the Sword route stuff (mantle, shard, crystal)?
>>738952364Because https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6z2X8JMX0A plays when someone thanks you for giving their life new meaning, congratulating you on a job well done and inviting you to an actual happily ever after.
>>738953716susie smile and glowshard(gatcha machine)
>>738952817I really wanna see asgore btfo the night or something, literally anything
>>738954317considering how people were hyped up for Toriel's involvement in ch3, I wouldn't keep my hopes up
>>738954317The Knight might stay clear of Asgore's shop. He has a black shard so it's not unreasonable to think he already kicked its ass once before
>>738950217Gay women do not exist
>>738953985>susie smileWhat does this correspond to?>and glowshard(gatcha machine)I can try clearing that thing out.
>>738954657in the scene with all the parental locks, you have to talk with susie and tell her 'sucks to be you'
>>738954838>>738954657nevermind, follow the image and ignore what i said, i was thinking of a different interaction
>>738954838part of me thinks it would be shitty game design to actually let schizo behavior like this have any important effects on the gamebut on the other hand i have to respect the autism
>>738954317I want Asgore to get something positive, he's always treated like such a punching bag. He's just a decent guy trying to do his best.
Kris bond burgered Noelle
>>738952313Counterpoint: this board is abysmal dogshit and this is the exact level of quality you tards deserve
>>738945842Her straight daughter got banished to gaster’s rape ranch and these threads have successfully gaslit themselves into thinking kris is a woman so Carol’s just fucked
>>738955435It's funny how he had to actually change the scene to not give that implicationHopefully we'll get some elaboration on what actually happened later on
>>738945743I'm pretty sure she wants wo number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.
>>738955673>these threads have successfully gaslit themselves into thinking kris is a womanSpeak for yourself bud
>>738954838>>738954889Awesome, many thanks /v/ros.
>>738955673>>738955789>gaslitit's the result of a few weeks of theory crafting and fitting in puzzle pieces it has more ground than kris knight ever did
>>738945743The loving company of black men
>>738955789Why did he merge without looking?
I want to have vaginal sex with loli Noelle so badly...
>>738955894>it has more ground than kris knight ever didThe worst part is that some of you unironically believe this
>>738953280The problem is that we’re already over half way through the game and still have over half a dozen unanswered questions so unless Toby is the biggest hack known to man I doubt he’s going to be subversive just for subversions sake with little to no foreshadowing beforehand
>>738945743human penis
>>738956143
>>738956143Isn’t she already a loli? Pretty sure she’s a teen
>>738952313Huh, looks like threads that aren't generals to me.Those usually have things like links to previous threads, or resources, or the like.If these count as Generals, then take down 90% of the posts on /v/.
>>738956308>teenToo old to be a loli
>>738955789Based aunt Noelle
>>738956308We've (kind of) seen her as a little girl and she's a lot smaller than she is now
>>738955789>BASED on my aunt
>>738955789>Based on ny AuntNever gets old
>>738955673It's just this one faggot retard >>738955894 replying to himself over and over again, nobody actually thinks Kris isn't a guy
im going to die soon. sometime in the next 60 days evidently. i desperately wish i could see the conclusion of this story, but i never will.dont ever forget it for as long as you live, please.
>>738956629Just don't die idiot
>>738956260many souls are saying this!
>>738955894Kris Knight was a stupid theory that at least made some degree of sense with what little evidence we had. GirlKris meanwhile required you to handwave all the evidence against it as “tricky tony’s tricks” and bet on Toby setting up a major twist with five jokes and the promise of a seething fanbase.
>>738956629don't say this in public, remember that Toby based Ralsei off a dead kidyou'll be the next hip meme character in deltarune if you die
>>738956662aren’t you suppose to be trapped in a bunker undyne?
>>738956629rudy...
>>738956776Not actually a supporter of the FemKris theories, but what have we got for evidence against it?
>>738955789I love this artist so much.
>>738956828Toby based Ralsei on his brother's character and Asriel. The dead kid is literally a schizophrenic's forced meme.
>>738956878actively none that aren't self insert headcanons that's why it pisses off so many people, they don't have any evidence to the contrary outside of 'toby would never do it', which is pure speculation anyways
>>738956828False. Toby actually based Ralsei off my father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roommate.
/v/ i have to know.Why do you lust for deer? What brought you upon this path? I am curious.
You can hate FemKris without being a schizophrenic retard like this schizo BTW>>738956569
>>738956878mostly just the fact there is no where near enough evidence for it to not feel out of no where this late, the fact that have a much more obvious candidate for who the OG girl was, and… the fucking pronouns. If Kris’s genital are going to be essential to the plot and it’s not just “muh ambiguity” then the they/them shit would need and actually explanation and so far I haven’t heard one that isn’t a massive asspull or the gayest shit imaginable.
>>738957194she was promised to me 20 years ago
>>738957194It calls out to me
>>738956878>>738957095The only evidence we have is the use of "They" for KrisWhich means fucking nothing with how Tobert Vulpes works with deceptive wording. Motherfucker might drop it the second we're not stuck in Kris's corpse and thus not two niggas.
>>738956878>mancountry>kris in mancountry being attributed with masculine shit like getting swole
>>738952313You won't be hired as a janny bro
>>738957194Toby did this to me.
>>738956497best dess design imo
>>738956878The fact that he's a boy who wears boy clothes (including his dark world outfit which came out of his own imagination) and shared a room with his brother and acts like a boy and is treated like a boy by literally everyone. Also the fact that the weird route wouldn't even slightly matter if Kris weren't a boy.
>>738956878about as much for pizzapants not being the knight
>>738957194Deer are dainty cute retards with nice asses.
Noelle’s virginity was promised to me 3000 years ago
>>738957369>(including his dark world outfit which came out of his own imagination)same outfit that is inspired from that one dude from tobys halloween hack(forgot his name)
>>738957194just LOOK
>>738957447Gaster...
>>738956061He heard the freedom leitmotif
>>738957369Oh also he's insecure about his height, which wouldn't make sense if he were a teenage girl, as his height would be at least average
>>738956878There's no counter evidence nor positive evidence because Kris's gender is supposed to be ambiguous because that's how humans are in this world. Kris's gender won't matter and they can be whatever you want.
>>738957241My personal favorite reasons for the use of "They" for Kris:>Some part of monster Metabiology allows them to relay gender that humans just lack>It's a subconscious address of the soul + kris having two different wills (two niggas theory)>Kris faking being non-binary to his/her friends and family so that the soul has no fucking clue who they actually are when we started playing.
>>738957369asriel's old clothes dw outfit is androgynous, don't pretend it isn't sharing a room with your sibling isn't weird, especially in a two bedroom house>acts like a boyheadcanon>is treated like a boyheadcanon>weird route wouldn't matter if kris wasn't a boy lesbian spousal abuse statistics
i miss my wife
>>738945743She probably unironically has a form of human worship/fetish and she wants to save her daughter and stuff. She hasn't really done much at all.
>>738957536>girls aren't insecure about their height you would be surprisedgirls surrounded by tall people are often acutely aware of their midge status compared to everyone else, especially if there are a lot of taller girls aroundwhich is kris' situation
if kris was a girl, why doesn't she borrorw toriel's old clothes
>>738957427
>>738957624spider wifehappy life
>>738957289Though, mancountry could be because of the Forgotten Man, rather than Kris.
>>738957667toriel is like 8' tall and kris is an itty bitty little midge in comparison they wouldn't fit, if she even still had them for whatever reason
>>738957707Isn't it easier to say it's for bothI mean>kris's design changes to his light world design>nod to his genderAnd it can easily attributed to FM as well.>all of his toys in there
>>738957667She's like 7'8 and was Kris's size when she was probably like 7.And I'm not sure about you, but I don't keep clothes that I don't fit in.
>>738957794I meant her old clothes when she was a child.
>>738952854>>738953280Undertale isn't really that subversive and there's hints that Asgore and Sans are more complex than they seem and fighting is always portrayed as being a bad thing. But still, it's very obvious to me that Carol won't be an one-dimensional antagonist, no Toby character is.
>>738956878there's no real evidence for or against femkris and the same applies to malekris but for specifically kris being THE GIRL then the minimal evidence for it IS evidence against it. we're already half way through deltarune and unless chapter 5 has the most heavy handed "KRIS IS ACTUALLY A WOMAN WITH A VAGINA" its going to feel like a massive ass pull to most sane people who don't take random jokes from chapter 1 as gospel. what the fuck would girl kris even provide to the plot beyond pissing off redditors that noelle being the old girl wouldn't. it just smells like contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism
>>738957707Mancountry is obviously because of the actual Man character, there's literally a sign that says non-men are allowed.
>>738957832Do you still have your baby clothes, anon?
>>738957832i don't think toriel would have those her parents might, but who knows where they are
>>738957906My mom does.
>>738957608Girls don't get handmedowns from brothers>dw outfit is androgynous, don't pretend it isn't No it isn't>sharing a room with your sibling isn't weird, A brother and sister sharing a room in a religious family is quite uncommon>headcanonAll of his behaviors are stereotypical teenage boy behavior. He privately acts like he's a badass but is meek when interacting with others. He has some kind of terrible burden but refuses to reveal it even with those who could actually probably help to resolve it. He is insecure about his stature but doesn't care about his overall appearance. He is actively threatening reality because he can't accept loss. >headcanonPeople largely ignore and avoid him because of his introverted behavior, rather than seeking to engage with him. His only real friends are people that were introduced to him through his parents or brother, a bully made of marshmallow who melted into goo because Kris wasn't immediately angry at or scared of her, and a literal imaginary friend. >lesbian spousal abuse statisticsLesbian spousal abuse has no meaningful consequences.
>>738957595>monster genitals are so alien that toriel who's raised kris as a infant as no fucking clue what gender they are monsterfuckerbros....
>>738957963Is Toriel her own mom?
>doe thread>distinct lack of does postedwhy do i even come here...
>>738956143This but human.>>738957194Deers are hot even if we lust for humans as well.
>>738957995Oh, also, Berdly treats Kris like a rival, not a target.
>>738957853>it's very obvious to me that Carol won't be an one-dimensional antagonistAnd you can't even really call that a subversion when we've had a grand total of one (1) direct interaction with her that ended almost immediately. Outside of some jokey NPC dialogue, we really don't have that much in the way of characterization. There's hardly anything to subvert in the first place.
>>738958019no but she should have one, i think.
>>738958032Sorry, the resident ritual poster trannies have to fill every DT thread with awful headcanon fanart of undertale's two least interesting 'characters'.
>>738958032You can just ask nicely y'know.
>>738958042Plus Carol's reaction was completely justified. People like Susie so they don't like to see people yell at her but yeah, going into a dead girl's room against the rules of her mother and fucking with her stuff is pretty screwed up. Though obviously the blame mostly lies on Noelle for instigating it.
>>738956878>what have we got for evidence against it?
>>738958086But nobody posts So Sorry and Jerry here.
>>738958203I said least interesting, not worst overall.
Kris hit me with a hockey puck so he doesn't get to decide his own (wrong) identity until I get an apology.
>>738958241But nobody posts the Ruins Dummy and Rock here.
>>738958016>Toriel rases Kris very strict>No lewd activity like handholding >Turns out the reason she's doing that is because that's how Boss Monsters make babies
Noelle is a masochist more than anything else. That's why she had a crush on Kris when they were kids, and why she so readily flips to Team Kris on Snowgrave route. This is not headcanon, it is the correct and unbiased way of interpreting the information Toby gave us.Very funny that the "lesbian icon" is actually just a fucked up fetishist.
>>738958297The rock is based. Come to think of it though, Jerry isn't the second worst character though, that'd probably either be the faggot knights or the gross humanimals horse guy
>>738956878wearing almost exclusively boys clothes (even at church) while being from an a seemingly fairly traditionalist family>inb4: but kris wears hand me downs from asrielyeah and you think your adopted child being a completely different gender from their sibling would be a good enough excuse to get them some new clothes especially since its implied that the dreemurrs (or at least toriel) aren't exactly struggling financially. what is toriel also too lazy to by kris a bra, panties, fucking tampons? literally anything to imply that she understands a teenage human girl and a male monster aren't one to one.
>>738957095The only one who dislikes femkris for self-insert headcanons is the schizo (which is why he hates Frisk and Chara too). Everyone else usually dislikes it because they don't want their non-preferred interpretation to be canon.
>>738958339Is it so wrong that I just want wholesome childhood friend romance without the mindbreak? I know it's not happening but god I hate the way Suselle is written so much, I'd literally rather the doe end up with anyone else, even Berdly.
>>738957194>cute big antlers and ears>pleasing short brown fur + white belly fur combo>attention-grabbing short fluffy tail>startle easilyDeer girls are the sequel to bunny girls
>>738958345Well, nobody posts those characters so I don't know what got under your pants.
>>738958430Still possible on the normal route but a lot would have to happen. Or maybe a threesome.
>>738958357I don't know, anon. Toriel seems kinda retarded.
>>738958430is it really mindbreak if she's into it?
>>738945743underage human cock pounding her and noelle's quivering doe cunts with relentless DETERMINATION
>>738950217not wanting is not the same as impossible
>>738958339Noelle still clicks for the hot female santa ads. She's still a dyke.
>>738958357>what is toriel also too lazy to by kris a bra, panties, fucking tampons? literally anything to imply that she understands a teenage human girl and a male monster aren't one to one.you underestimate how much this site hates toriel
I had sex with Noelle.
>There's no evidence for FemKris!There is. There are in fact so many hints that looking back on it, it would be the most clever twists in all of fiction. Watch the video if you haven't already:https://youtu.be/atcmhLW0NX4
>>738958193Like a double-meaning word like They is fucking proof of anything in Tricky Tony's wild ride
>>738958476I'm just making conversation
>>738958715oh come the fuck onyou are not comparing LOVE to they
>>738953825All jokes aside Chara's genocide scene is supposed to be a bad thing but it's a bit funny both that and Carol scene talk about how awesome you are and how you can always be with them.
>>738958703>Watch the video if you haven't already:Advertising is against the rules>>738958715>Like a double-meaning word like They is fucking proof of anything
>>738958502Yeah a lot would have to happen with both of them. Noelle would have to figure herself out and Kris is an even bigger can of worms.
>>738958430It's not mindbreak, it's literally just helping her out of her shell. She wants to let go.
>>738957369>is treated like a boy by literally everyoneNo she isn't. There's only burgerpants, who treats Kris as a proxy for Asriel (because they're family).
>>738958746I don't know bro, you seemed to be bitching about not being able to post your waifu and can't even talk directly to the people BTFOing you. Low T move.
>>738958703Susie is the Girl. Maybe switches to Noelle on the weird route. Kris can't be The Girl because he's The Cage because he's the ONLY FUCKING CHARACTER IN THE STORY THAT CAN BE.
>>738958813>No she isn't. If you don't understand how Kris is treated like a boy, I'm beginning to wonder if you might be a girl.
>>738958849>Forgetting the Vessel
>>738958760>They: Singular induvidual of undefined gender>They: Two+ niggasIt's fairly fucking easy to see the alternate use applying here.>>738958750Honeslty, LV and XP being Acronyms in the first place was retarded.
>>738958907Again, what are these boy treatments? Most of Kris's friends are girls. Most of the audience treats Kris like a man, but that's due to the way she dresses.
Krusielle is a copout but I could see Toby going that way just to make everyone happy. If he picks the pairings for us or one is normal end and one is "true" ending, shitstorm. I doubt it'd be left fully up to player choice either.
>>738958849>ONLY FUCKING CHARACTER IN THE STORY THAT CAN BE.
>>738958932>It's fairly fucking easy to see the alternate use applying here.Except nobody else knows about the SOUL retardThis cope is so fucking stale and unserious
>>738958040Why do you keep repeating this when it's clear nonsense? You don't hit on your romantic rival. That's incredibly gay.
>>738958995>Krusielle*Kralsuselle
>>738958995The true super ultimate final good ending will be a harem ending for Susie, since she's the real main protagonist.
Kris is a man. Not a "he", a MAN, remember there are only 2 genders and you can't change that because you are mentally ill
>>738955894Bro your theory is more crack than Kris Knight ever was. I can't see any big evidence of FemKris being confirmed canon unlike Kris Knight evidence.>>738958193Most they/them irl are women and pronouns aren't related to your sex, though.
>>738958849
>>738958916Kris is "the vessel". The point of the intro is to rug pull you about the idea of the main character being a player avatar.
>>738959042Because you're talking to a self-inserter schizo who hates the existence of female humans. He's probably unironically gay.
>>738959126Kris isn't a man yet he's under 18, defeated with facts and logic
>>738951776why do you think it was called burgertruckung
>>738958974Kris is ignored as a loner weirdo by almost everyone. His friends are almost exclusively people he met through his family as a prepubescent boy. The only person to actually reach out to him proactively was a bully that intended to victimize him. Berdly jokes about him being a romantic rival, and then actually treats him like one on the weird route.
>>738959161dogshit interpretation
>>738959164From admitting there's multiple humanposters to finally acknowledging the vessel exists is character delevopment for a schizo. You're still wrong, the Vessel isn't Kris unless it time traveled to the past and got de-aged.
>>738959161>"The girl and the heart together" (shows the girl without the heart)>The 2nd hero becomes the 1st hero>"The girl separates from the heart" (shows the girl with the heart)The knots you people tie yourselves in are so fucking mind-bendingly stupid
>>738959042>You don't hit on your romantic rival.He gave one joking line which is exactly the kind of stupid bullshit a highschool clown would say. He wasn't hitting on Kris. And on the weird route, when Kris and Noelle are together, he gets aggressive towards Kris, after becoming actually jealous.
>>738959010Subconsciously picking up on human information that isn't relayed to them? Hmmm...
>>738959161Retarded schizo nonsense. "Love finds its way to the girl" is just foreshadowing that she'll have the soul at some point.
>>738959331>And on the weird route, when Kris and Noelle are together, he gets aggressive towards Kris, after becoming actually jealous.This literally doesn't happen, I genuinely wonder what Deltarune you actually play. Berdly wants to protect Noelle because she's clearly fucked up from what Kris is doing.
>>738958703>There is. There are in fact so many hints that looking back on it, it would be the most clever twists in all of fiction. Watch the video if you haven't already:Your theory doesn't hold waterKris can't be BOTH the HUMAN and the GIRL at the same time
>>738959319"The vessel" as a distinct character from Kris does not exist. There is no second human body. Kris is all we got. Other than Noelle of course. Also no, there isn't multiple "human posters".
>>738959260Kris is friends with Catti. It could in fact be argued Catti was Kris's best friend before the story started.
>>738958995I doubt that after the throuple joke. We're getting Suselle and that's it.
>>738959386Berdly got jealous and lashed out because he's a stupid faggot who was upset he failed to score. Now he's dead. Get fucked, idiot bird.
>>738959424She isn't doing it at the same time. She swapped roles.
>>738959426Damn, you can't even take actual praise without doubling down. Sorry for thinking you got mental health treatment.
>>738959426Retarded, or an actual Bot?Debats, debates...
>>738959434>Kris is friends with Catti. Via Asriel.
>>738959483He can't have swapped because nobody else could have been the cage.
>>738950217>Her daughter is gay.Not anymore she's not.
I'm going to hunt the damned doctor down to the deepest darkness and collect on what I'm owed.Kris a SHIT vessel, my creation a BEST
>>738959426Sure, sure.That's why our Vessel is saved.Of course, of course.
>>738959161kino interpretation
>>738959470>Schizo's Deltarune is just an elaborate dating sim where everything is about anthro datingOf course.
>>738959664Every choice you can make in the game is part of your save file even before you make it, and your choice is logged indefinitely after you make it. There's nothing special about the flags used in the intro scene.
>>738959743I just don't like Berdly. He's fucking annoying in a way that I've known people IRL to be.
>>738956629like, from cancer or did you write down a date?
>>738959580What did she mean by closing the distance here? What was her endgame if Kris and the Player hasn't interrupted her?
the mural of the girl looks more like the white cloak than anything. for fucks sake the mantle talks about a "forgotten path originally involving ice magic". i don't really know how much more overt toby could get with susie and noelle's parallels or the idea that noelle originally had a much bigger role in the unaltered prophecy. like even the femkrisfags video sorta just handwaves noelle's role
>>738956878they/them
>>738959862Because he's literally you, I assume.
>>738959925>forgottenforbidden*
>>738959818Some things aren't saved between chapters, anon.And it's still going strong.
>>738959878She closed the blinds, she wanted him to fuck her. Then he started acting creepy and weird, which caused her to hesitate briefly, but then get even more into it.
>>738959925Noelle can still be the Angel beyond being the girl honestly. Plus there's already an unused prophecy about her and the whole "who will call the girl who snows"
>>738959994>but then get even more into it.fan fiction
>>738959661Brother...
>>738958703The only plausible universe Kris is confirmed female is to make a really woke message about Kris choosing their own gender and refusing to be female for the sake of the prophecy, because that's not Kris' gender identity, and ultimately a message about transitioning, but you reject that
>>738959661Baaaaaased!
>>738959925Yeah it's very obvious. Noelle was supposed to be The Girl but then Kris went out of his way to get Susie to play the role instead, unless (you) decide to drag Noelle back into the story. We also get the double meaning of "love finds its way to the girl", with Kris most likely needing to lend the soul to Susie in some desperate situation in the normal route, or the soul itself electing to swap from Kris to Noelle in the weird route.
>>738960075If you go through with it she says thank you and if you abort it she slaps you and throws a tantrum.
>>738959818Verifiably wrong: Getting the Banana does NOTHING.
Reminder that the most vocal poster against FemKris is a redditor which is why they say this>>738960132
>>738959818I can't wait until the vessel shows up and you finally vacate from these threads for good.
Do you think Susie's tail (?) is relevant to the plotIsn't there reference to a devil's tail or something I haven't played this game in like a year
If FemKrisfags were serious and intelligent, if they actually played the game and understood its themes and presentation, they would be making the argument that Kris being referred to with "they/them" is another one of the game's layers of obfuscation.The game insists that You are Kris, and to create that pretext the game goes to significant lengths to minimize Kris's presence and depersonalize them. From our perspective, Kris is almost always a stoic and silent observer. We are rarely if ever allowed to see their expression change, the actions that they take, what they think, feel, or say. Couldn't this suppression of their identity extend to even their gender? After all, the game never asked for our sex, and it has to accommodate all players.In this framework, it would be conceivable that at some climactic point in the future, we could be completely severed from Kris which would allow them to regain their full personhood and characterization in the game's narrative, including their true gender identity.Of course, this is still a total dogshit moron theory on par with and similar in many respects to "Ralsei is trans," and I doubt any FemKrisfags will adopt it even though it's superior to their even shittier incoherent theories, because that would require them to admit a more intelligent person who thinks that they're all AGP morons was able to easily make a superior argument with just a few minutes of thought after they've been obsessively pushing this dumb shit for months.
>>738960236I haven't been in these threads for the past two weeks
>>738960191>thank youbecause you made kris about her later on, and she's aware of it. something we know that she always wanted according to her blog.>abortbecause that's the last chance she has of plausibly believing that she didn't actually kill everyone, and is furious that Kris would try the prank again.all you fuckers can ever think about is getting your dick wet so much that it overrides your thinking(even if the couch scene was p hot).
>>738960329at most i can see it as something she'll call noelle out on because she's clearly insecure about it, to the point where she still hasn't told kris she even has onemeanwhile noelle is constantly staring at her ass, and continuously bringing it up
>>738960297I can't wait for you to fucking kill yourself, tranny.
News... when will there be news...... please... toby......
>>738960383>because that's the last chance she has of plausibly believing that she didn't actually kill everyone, and is furious that Kris would try the prank again.Yeah sure she's freaking out over some dead imaginary friends, not Kris ostensibly cockblocking her with stupid prank when she was trying to kiss him. Dumbass.
Kris being the girl is impossible because Toby would add Andonuts to Deltarune before ever reneging on Kris's pronouns. Kris being the girl is retarded because femkris is hack-tier garbage and the only people seriously peddling it just have a boner where a brain ought to be. I almost can't believe that it's not only still going in earnest but that I have to share a thread with them. Atleast NoelleKnighters KNOW they're insane and also stupid
>>738960541>dead imaginary friendsNot to mention that Berdly is very real, but she doesn't know that all of those people in the dark world are "fake". And besides, the game CLEARLY wants you to treat Ralsei and them like they are real.
>>738960545Noelle Knight just confuses me because it's just a more nonsense version of Dess Knight.
>>738960521You must continue to WAIT, anon. WAIT must become a part of you. The lack of news must make you STRONGER.
>>738960329There's a prophecy that says "THEY'LL SEE THE TAIL OF HELL TAKE CRAWL"Susie could be representing Hell in that she seems posed/doomed to have a climactic confrontation with The Angel, but the tail is represented as long string of connected circles, while Susie's tail must be pretty stubby (and I don't see how it would "TAKE CRAWL" when it's attached to her ass).The consensus interpretation of the line is that it's foreshadowing the mysterious "FRIEND," the creepy smiling face with pink-and-yellow eyes we've seen in a few places, who is assumed to be some kind of Cheshire Cat type thing that would have a long tail
>>738960346Because femkrisfag's theory isn't about gender identity, or anything at all, it's about mental masturbation about how based and correct the theory is and never elaborating on anything else about the theory and how it serves the game. Might as well be rage bait.
>>738960628>And besides, the game CLEARLY wants you to treat Ralsei and them like they are real.Yeah but the whole point of the weird route is to tell the game's metanarrative to fuck off and play the game "wrong" in the same way that Noelle plays her own videogames "wrong". Having her kill all the darkners is "leveling her up" by desensitizing her to violence, something she's amenable to due to her own inner fantasies, in the same way that Kris also has a part of him that likes the weird route even if he's morally and ethically opposed to it.
>>738960346Not a FemKrisfag but that isn't a bad explanation. We know that we're connected to the device and that it makes us think we're Kris as he's our main vessel so it hiding their gender wouldn't be too crazy. Of course Toby already had all other humans being they/them but it isn't a bad argument at all.
>>738960702considering how +130 posts blew up from here >>738955894 it seems to be pretty effective bait. When will it stop being bitten?
>>738960996It's a bad argument because it's downstream of the retarded interpretation that there is an actual random human body in a pod somewhere and not that we got pranked into thinking that DT would have a character creator instead of being about the conflict between player and player character.
>*glass breaks*
>>738961067we toby gives us a definitive answer on the second heroit's one of the load bearing walls on the theory, there are a couple others but that's the biggest one
>>738961067Because these threads are fucking boring and an endless loop of femkrisfaggotry -> deer rape posting -> unrelated kris pronouns debate -> toby is based/toby is woke debate -> toby vs the latinx -> knight identity discussions
so what gives darkners strength? the main 3 darkner bosses of each chapter btfo the shit squad when given the chance meanwhile there are others that can be beaten easily.
>>738961178Answer me why the Vessel is saved, when only specific, key details have been saved, then tell me why the Vessel is unimportant and won't come back.
>>738961264Most likely the strength of the emotions and memories associated with the item the darkner is based on. Though it's also worth noting that Kris and Ralsei are sandbagging in most fights
>>738961375>when only specific, key details have been saved, Wrong.
>>738961473Please then, elaborate.
>>738960648The few still opposed to Dess Knight are people who can't get over the unexplained elements of the theory and think it's all just too convenient, not understanding that (beyond the smoking gun elements of The Knight's actual appearance) that's exactly the point and justification of it.If The Knight was another normal person, we would need an explanation for why they look like that in the Dark World (especially if they're someone with a normal Dark World form that we've seen, like Noelle). If they were a normal person making the Fountains, we would have to account for their position and movement around town and we'd expect SOME reference to somebody sneaking around, but instead we've been finding The Knight's hiding spots.Dess Knight is a mystery meat theory to an extent but that's not a deficiency, that's an advantage. A character that we know of but isn't accounted for is much easier to view as a suspect, and to write a story around.
>>738961521There's all sorts of random shit in the save files because Toby can barely program
>>738961178I don't care about your opinion schizo-kun and I wasn't replying to you. I don't care about how the Vessel existing raped you.
>>738961638Then you must have examples, anon.Enlighten us, please.
>>738961067That was because we had an autism explosion between FemKrisfags and the anti-humanschizo. Normally bringing FemKris up doesn't cause this big of a melty.
>>738960648Because most Noelle Knighters dislike Dess Knight for some reason. Contrarianism, I assume.
Toby changed the story in between chapters production and the Weird Route wasn't planned from the beginning and nothing is gonna convince me otherwise
>>738961264Being the characters from Kris and Dess's game.
>>738961263People say this but never leave these threads. Stockholm syndrome is real.
>>738961708https://github.com/Jacky720/FloweysTimeMachine/blob/deltarune/data.js#L556
>>738960996In the context of the game itself, it's a reasonable enough interpretation, and basically the only in-story justification for why Kris goes by they/them that isn't "that's their preferred pronouns" or "enormous fucking cope."I would call it more of a pretext or framework than a theory, because it doesn't provide any actual evidence for FemKris, just a plausible way that it could be done.The real problem is the greater context beyond the game, where we have no reason to think that this is the story Toby is telling, or that he would EVER want to stick his dick directly into a hornets nest of culture war shit like this. It completely goes against his approach to any sensitive topic like this, and there's no need for any justification for why Kris is assigned they/them, it's just continuing the convention established by Undertale.Even if the game could allow for something like this to play out, there's still no reason to think that it's going to and plenty of reason to think that it would never happen.
>>738960648Noelle knighters aren't even trying anymore
>>738962129It doesn't make much sense for the game to contextually deny Kris is a girl through most of its runtime until it's time to state Kris was in fact, a girl all this time. Just thinking how bizarre that would feel if the characters themselves discover Kris is a girl and suddenly start calling Kris one, or they all now recognize Kris as a girl despite not doing so previously, making the whole game's writing extremelly contrived.
>>738958916that still doesn't make a good case for femkris and more just bolstered the idea that NOELLE was the girl>ok so both kris and the vessel both have all the requirements to be the cage and with kris hijacking the role as designated meat puppet, the old cage was likely going to be the vessel>and susie and noelle have all the requirements to be the girl so OBVIOUSLY KRIS was the original girl who decided she wanted a slightly different role and all the parallels between susie and noelle are just schizoid delusions
>>738961067when there's literally anything else to talk about. at this point i only engage with the theory purely out of boredom even if its the same arguments over and over again
>>738962087I don't see anything irrelevant in there, anon.Or did you think that dropping a link with nothing that proves any of your points and running away was actually meaningful?
what if the final fight is just toby in a shitty gaster costume poorly super imposed into deltarune like its a fucking red alert game?
>>738962452i think "TIME TO TAKE A PISS" every time i piss
>>738960648people here REALLY hate the idea that we've already figured out a large chunk of deltarune's plot and are betting on one finally big twist that will mindbreak everyone
I know a girl IRL that looks very similar to noelle, buck teeth and all.>>738960521Im sure on june or july he will release the game.
>>738959580I would be so happy if she did turn straight and go after and get with Kris. The rage would be so fucking funny. Sadly I think if Toby did that some Redditor would actually kill him.
>>738962564that would be gigakino though
>>738961904i unironically hope the theory that ramb was referring to dess as the girl kris use to play with because that would imply that dess was some autistic sperg who RP'd with playing cards and a laptop and asriel looked at that and went "aw man i CAN'T not fuck that"
>>738962345kris shares more attributes with the girl than with the cage the roles usually govessel = first herokris = second heroralsei = third heronoelle = angel/ knight susie = dragon or outsider who was roped in
uh I don't frequent these threads but what is the point of the closet in the computer lab that is "big enough for a person to fit inside" if Noelle was the knight?
i still think about cactus theory
Can anyone please explain what the fuck is the Angel's role supposed to be in the story and why is that linked to Noelle beyond mere imagery
>>738963007because as the image here >>738957794 shows, pretty much everyone is bigger than kris, so almost anyone could be considered 'a large person' from his pov
>>738960346That's not argument. What you're describing is an idea based on themes. FemKris Theory is evidence-based.
>>738963007hey anon ask them why the knight would let (you) put the thornring on Noelle and then have the knight disobeying us in the chapter 4 dark world.
>>738962878As long as the game never calls Kris "he" the libtards can't complain. Even if they had abomination monster/human hybrid kids. "What, so you think Kris would need to be a MAN to plunge their dick into Noelle's fertile pussy?? Not very woke of you!"
didn't tobert fox himself say that that all the protagonists are supposed to be gender ambiguous and corrects people he talks to when they used gendered pronouns? why argue about something so pointless?
>>738963152(You) are the angel. In the weird route we'll hop from Kris to Noelle to empower her to "beat the game" (destroy the dark world and kill her sister)
when is the Asgore suicide happening?
>>738961263>>738962452>>738961219>>738961716I see. Well, I don't think I'm going to get anything more out of these threads that aren't aneurysms. See you freaks Deltarune Tomorrow
>>738951641really need to see Dess just to make sure
>>738952364she has negative charisma. she constantly comes off as intimidating and filled with hate because she's a hyper autist
>>738963007The point is Noelle Knight is a joke theory made as a thought experiment. Nobody seriously believes in it.
Noelle Knight and Susie Gaster being in a toxic relationship with Kris (unambiguously female) is my ideal deltarune
>>738951641guys trust. Carol is secretly an attractive MILF with DD cups AT LEAST. the shirt is just hiding her power level
why the fuck was there a 33 minute long save file in the first dark world. what the hell is up with that
>>738964352Set up for Deltarune's Chara-like twist.
>>738961194>some-BODY
>>738964240Carol is FLAT and WE LIKE THAT >>738957265
>>738953280>>funny skeleton man? he's actually a tragic figure trying his best to stop the player from doing something badwas already foreshadowed by the game "jokingly" introducing sans as an intimidating entity>>the evil king the game's been setting up? actually a good guyeveryone outside of toriel talking positively implied that>>fighting enemies like in any other game? actually that's evil and will lock you out from the good endingundertale was literally marketed as "the game where no one has to die" and having a good or bad ending based off your kill count isn't a new thing>>tutorial character that was nice to you through the entire tutorial and only wanted the best for you? actually a bad person who wanted to genocide humans!if you're refering to toriel... she doesn't want to kill all humans... that wasn't what her statement to asgore was about assuming that's what your refering to
Taking over Noelle and turning her into my new vessel WHEN?
>>738964949Teenage mom Carol can be flat. Modern milf Carol has milkers
>>738965215End of chapter 6
>>738965215Toby was fucking crazy for having Noelle say this to Dess in Chapter 6
>>738965215lower your expectations anon. vessel-noelle is too kino for Toby.
>>738956308she's a hebe
Why would Tobert give Noelle a huge ass lance as her weapon? doesn't fit her at all...
>>738957624your wife is a whore who'd sell her body in a heart beat
I thought you guys wanted to plow the deer, not BE the deer. Come on.
>>738966026>Why would Tobert give Noelle a huge assheh
Thank fuck I'm not a fan of Delta rune. If I had to wait this long for updates on any other game I'd order a refund
>>738945984For Henry Furth
>>738960074I think the Knight will turn into the Angel, from Gerson we know Susie is The Dragon, leaving Noelle as the only girl
>>738965607>older woman with aura>toxic relationship with daughter>mother of the main girl and villain>ominous offscreen looming presence>introduced over the phone before appearing in person>rich and powerful local leader behind a grand conspiracy>owns two swords which she's going to use to kill you>theme song about getting stronger by pruning flowerswhat the hell, surehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gewzeEUnIsQ
>>738966585>kriselle is utena, madoka, and klk all at the same timedamn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWagqiA8reYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEu5Na8CSd0what could have been...
I would trade Susie and Ralsei for Noelle.
>>738968224I have good news
>>738968224We know, Kris.
>>738961613Dess is the lost girl. The Knight is right fucking there.
>>738971537people still use the meaning of "lost" literally in a toby fox game in 2026?
>>738972017The knight isn't lost by any definition of the word. She could visit her family any time she wants.
>>738961613If the Knight is a normal person it has to be Rudy. I don't think that's what the story is going for, though.
>>738971537>Dess is the lost girl.Yes, she is.
>>738972017>>738972548What is "findher.ogg", Alex?
>>738973357uhhpure subversiontoby would never do that not canon
>>738951641>keratin fingertipsSEXO
Kris (girl) (female)
>>738973946please don't bait the schizo anymore his meltdown earlier really tired him out
i've not posted in or checked these threads all year due to wageslaving and it's amazing how they're still the exact same bullshit that they've been since late last year, it's like an alternate /vg/ general with it's own completely different yet equally cancerous culture all spread by the same few retarded superniggerswatch twin peaks btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ03-aaO4sA>A lost and lost and lost girl.>A crying and crying and crying boy.>* Lost where the forest would grow, the children followed the pointed tail.>* By the way, beware yourselves of the forest maze.>* You'll probly get COMPLETELY lost...>* Without someone who knows the way through, that is.>* From now on, defeating enemies with violence will make them LOST.>* LOST enemies cannot become RECRUITs ever again.>* But, the bonds you break may make you stronger...>YOU MAKE ME [Sick]!>MUTTERING YOUR [Lost Friends] NAMES AT THE BOTTOM OF A [Dumpster]!>NO ONE'S GONNA HELP YOU!!!>* Kris called for help...>* ... but nobody came.>I AM THE LOST PIPPINS.>ON BEHALF OF THE TOYS YOU LOST IN THE COUCH, A SECRET...>IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUSH YOUR LOVED ONES AWAY, SOMETIMES.>* (It seems the way is blocked.)>* (You put out your hand...)>* (And, just out of view, just perfectly out of view,>* Another hand pressed against yours>* And pushed you back.)>Lost eternally in an endless night...>Is that your idea of paradise?>I'm starting to lose track of the time.>Has it been days? Hours?>If someone told me it's been years, I might believe them...>Before, the sun came up,>And so many wonderful things happened that made time meaningful.>In this place,>I don't eat or drink anymore.>I can't tell if I'm awake or dreaming.>I can't even tell if I'm dead or alive.>It's just nothing but pitch black silence.
>>738956629Just sucker punch death in the face, that'll earn you his respect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5wyfl-OfFQThis is the most underrated song in the game
>>738945743Undertale troons are the new bronies These threads are not video games just furfags circlejerking over ugly western characters daily when they also do this on /vg/
>>738978586Thanks for the bump
When the FUCK is Chapter 5?
>>738952313The janny that was melting down back then must have pissed off the rest of the staff with his shenanigans
I want to have sex with 3 to 4 temmies
look at this small creature
>>738980634
>>738974358Dess is Lost and Asriel is the Knight. That's the point of the parallel in the Ribbick dialogue and how the contradictions between the hidden dialogue and the Knight's personality, as well as the Knight's obvious state of not being lost, are resolved.
>>738981352the knight being a character we've never seen and only mentioned in (mainly optional) text is poor writing the worst thing toby could do for the knight is to have people go 'who the fuck is this?'yes i know the majority of people played undertale, but that's all the more reason why asriel isn't going to be super important to the plot he's also probably not going to be back until monday, which is ch6 unless we get another night chapter
Reminder
>>738981465Why would it be poor writing that the Knight's true form not be seen before it is revealed? What does that matter? The groundwork is already there through text. Asriel is literally the third character mentioned in the game, and the player is constantly reminded of him by obligatory and optional content.I mean, Dess has MUCH less presence in the game than Asriel. Why don't you level that criticism at Dess Knight?>he's also probably not going to be back until mondayWhere is this said? And where is it proven that he is not currently in Hometown already?
>>738982068the first thing toriel says about asriel, at the very start of the game, is that he's at college and will be returning the upcoming weeknow that we know the game starts on a thursday, and ch4 ends late saturday night/ early sunday morning, asriel returning 'next week' could either apply to ch5 or ch6 if it's the following dayi guess it is possible for him to show up in ch5, but honestly i'm not entirely sure how toby would fit that in considering how many other moving parts ch5 will already havetoriel also didn't bring up that he'd be coming back the next day in ch4, surely she would've wanted to introduce susie to him considering that kris making a friend was considered a big deal for her in ch1
>>738982242Well now that I think about it, when he decides to publicly show his face is irrelevant. There's just no proof that he is currently at college.
I had a dream a while ago where Kris was exploring a non sensical landscape, and he met a man who told him not to turn on a switch. Kris turned on the switch, and ran away from the man. Then he approached Noelle who was waiting for him and they went in deeper. I don't remember any mid section of the dream, except for the fact that Noelle was gonna be rewarded by witnessing "heaven." At the ending of the dream Kris becomes an amalgamate with Noelle. Her neck was stretching infinitly upwards where she was witnessing the stars. While the soul and kris doupled and became darker (color wise.) Pic rel.
>>738982306there also isn't any proof that he isn't at college and i would argue toriel saying he is ch1, asgore corrobating it in ch2, and kris' seach history for when college vacation starts, all paint the clear picture of:he's not in town atm and is exactly where everyone is saying he is
>>738958430That's what the cancelled weird route is going to doNoelle is going to eventually notice that (You) are trying to directly control her and will want to be freed from itAt the climax of her corrupted Kris risk his own soul to kill (You)And (You)r death will bring them together
>>738965607wats da sauce, no reverse image sites i've tried have worked for it
>>738983148Pathetic
>>738956956He's still making deltarune/undertale art?
>>738983439waddahel, when i slammed it into google it just gave me fanart of a one piece character, thx
yfw the long dev times are for working ahead of schedule to handle the weird route branch point and subsequent b-side chapters without arousing suspicion?
>>738957687Is this edited? I don't remember Muffet being pregnant in that artwork.
>>738957194A certain female Finnish artist...
Does anybody think Asriel could be the Knight? >Favourite smash character Sword Magician>Edgy design like God of Hyperdeath>Chapter 4 establishes that Dark Worlds reflect the personality of their creator. Asriel has Seam on his wallpaper>Toby reuses sprites so the left handed mouse argument isn't valid or also applies to AsrielI feel like people jump to quickly at the most obvious answer as if Toby wasn't known for his misdirections and twists. Asriel could've come back earlier than expected and is working with Kris to find Dess maybe?Also I remember something about a Cyber World wallpaper but I don't know where that's from
>>738984021My problem with Asriel being the knight is that it's the same as the knight being some random person we've never seenLike the only twist to be gotten from it is that Asriel lied about going to college or something to that effect, which is boringAt least Dess is interesting because she's supposed to have been missing for yearsCarol and Rudy knights are interesting because they would, probably, be knights out of desperationAnd Noelle knight is just schizokino at it's finest
>>738956260>Marathon threads
>>738961424>Kris and Ralsei are sandbagging in most fightsKris i get, since he's working with and carol(and possibly Gaster). But why would Ralsei ever need to hold back? Especially against the Knight and the Titian?
>>738984295it's a purely speculatory theory based entirely on ralsei destroying the fake gerson with a couple swings we have no idea how strong the fake gerson was because susie refuses to attack it, and also prevents kris from doing so as wellfor all we know a solid smack from susie's axe would've crushed it just the same
>>738984195wdym? Asriel is Kris's brother, not some random NPC. You have almost every resident in Hometown sucking his cock saying how great he is and how perfect compared to you so yuxtaposing those comments you have the Knight as an evil figure. It parallels Lucas and Claus in Mother 3 too and there's much more drama in the hypothetical conflict between Asriel and his family for maybe finding Dess or something. How can all of that be the same as if Catty were the knight you disingenuous retard
>>738984390The main evidence I remember is Ralsei being able to do some kind of float-running, and using fire magic for an ACT but not as a spell for attacking.
>>738972414She can't talk and doesn't seem very sane. It's also not clear if there's a limit on how long she can be in the light world.
>>738984452NTA but it's everyone praising him to high heaven that makes think that if Asriel does play a role in the story, it would most likely be a small role akin to Ramb helping Kris get the shadow mantle. Or being the one to finally snap dess out of it and bring her back. Assuming she's the Knight.
>>738984021>as if Toby wasn't known for his misdirections and twistsHe's not.
>>738984452Damn bro are you one of those Asriel self-insert fags because you took that personallyYeah, everyone glazes Azzy and shit but we as the player know nothing about himHim being revealed as the knight has very little shock value other than he's the brother of a character who already hates us
This is actually what HMOFA self-inserters want.
>>738984295He can use fire magic but just doesn't. Why? No idea.
>>738984774Actually I want Noelle
>>738950217Orientation_play wants to know your location
>>738984774Oops wrong image.
>>738984774Susie is clearly purple
>>738982446Toriel and Asgore do not say where he is, but where they think he is. The game has actually gone out of its way to establish that the internet in Hometown has been cut, which seems to be his only method of communication, and that Toriel and Asgore do not want to talk to him until he comes back to avoid having to talk about their relationship. There is no indication anywhere that anyone is in contact with Asriel at college, and conspicuous circumstances which coincidentally make it impossible.Additionally, Kris's search history has nothing to do with Asriel's return. It is a search for SUMMER vacation, not just "college vacation", and the game clearly takes place in the middle of Fall.I mean even if you reject all of that outright, don't you find it a little interesting that everything which could tell us his location is off? That's it's not quite right but just good enough to seem normal at first glance? Everything in the game about Asriel is like that. Nothing is straightforward or informative about his current state and that, to me, throws up red flags which are corroborated by further investigation.
>>738955673Human girls and Monster girls can impregnate each other in the Dark world.
>>738956143December Holiday...
>>738984021Ironically these are all the weakest arguments for Asriel Knight, which is truly and easily the best substantiated Knight candidate in the entire game.
>>738984841As much I don't like the "Hometown is the only real location in deltarune" theory is the only explanation for why the internet is cut and Carol despite the many resources available to her can't bring it back.
>>738984690I could actually see that happening>>738984757Not a self inserter but you can't say we don't know anything about him in good faith. He is with Dess one of the most talked about characters in the game man, be for real>>738984746It seems there's a disingenuous retard in this thread and it wasn't that other anon. Have you even played Undertale or do you only masturbate to Noelle?
>>738984945No the best knight candidate is the conspicuously absent deer girl with a baseball bat, and you're being willfully obtuse. BLACK KNIFE is even a remix of Lost Girl, for fuck's sake.
>>738945743We're almost half through 2026 and Toby still hasn't released Chapter 5, a single chapter.There's no way anything awaits once it releases but disappointment
>>738985019Toby is not known for oblique twists or misdirection. You're just wrong. Flowey being Asriel was the most obvious and telegraphed reveal in fiction. And you really think Toby would make him the primary antagonist AGAIN?
>>738985141Who said anything about Flowey? What about the entire basis of the game Undertale? How it plays with what you expect a normal RPG to be and then twists it around? It's not the ONLY thing he's known for but you gotta be an actual diagnosed retard to not recognize that. What about Lv and LOVE? Or Determination? Or the fucking identity of the main character? Or the Game Over text? C'mon now
>>738985001That is a convoluted way of dismissing events which your theories don't account for. Anything that takes place before the story or outside of our view simply doesn't exist, lol.Do you really think Toby would have that be the case? Doesn't that go against his entire worldbuilding philosophy? >>738985063>only evidence for Dess Knight is>"she's missing">even though she's accounted for in the code>"she has superficial similarities to the knight>even though we know that the Knight is currently a shapeshifter and changes forms inside and outside the Dark WorldThis is insufficient evidence to declare her the Knight, let alone say she has the most evidence out of any candidate.Also, Black Knife is not a remix of Lost Girl. It contains the Lost Girl motif, along with many other motifs. And I will remind you that the Lost Girl motif is not used exclusively for content involving Dess.
>>738985095
>>738985215>What about the entire basis of the game Undertale? How it plays with what you expect a normal RPG to be and then twists it around? That's not a twist, it's a basic game mechanic, and the moral implications of it are told to you outright in the fucking tutorial.>What about Lv and LOVE? Or Determination? Or the fucking identity of the main character? Or the Game Over text? A pun, a pun, "some guy", and barely a twist. The game over text being Asgore trying to push for his son to live is obvious the instant you talk to him the first time.
>>738985019>he and Dess>DessLiterally no one in the game mentions Dess outside of NoelleAnd yeah, they talk about Asriel because he's coming home soonAnd they all basically label the same way: good Christian boyFor it to reveal that Asriel was the big bad all along is at best subversion for the sake of subversion
>>738985439No, it's a twist, nignog. All the groundwork for it has already been done, the how and why has already been established. His identity need only be confirmed and the timeframe explained.
>>738985242>That is a convoluted way of dismissing events which your theories don't account for. Anything that takes place before the story or outside of our view simply doesn't exist, lol.It's not my theory, and i'm pretty sure i said my post i didn't like it. So i don't where or how you managed get that form.
>>738985242>even though she's accounted for in the codeMeaningless retarded statement.>she has superficial similarities to the knightSure man being a fucking deer girl is superficial>even though we know that the Knight is currently a shapeshifter She's amorphous, probably because of determination overload, there's no evidence that she can just assume whatever form she wants. After all, she has to actively hide in the light world, as opposed to just becoming a doppleganger or something. >Also, Black Knife is not a remix of Lost Girl. It contains the Lost Girl motifCope
>>738985439>Literally no one in the game mentions Dess outside of NoelleTenna does.
>>738985492>the how and why has already been established.Literally not a single reason has been suggested for how Asriel would even fucking know about the dark world
>>738985510Keep getting mad, it won't magically make your case stronger.>she has to actively hide in the light worldI'd like you to riddle me these questions two:Why does she have to actively hide in the Light World? andWhy does Kris go out of their way to hide the Knight's Light World form if it looks essentially identical to its Dark World form?
>>738985545How does Kris know about the Dark World? How does the Knight know about the Dark World?
Behold the weakest Krusie shipperhttps://youtu.be/O20V5eDcKm8Seriously Krusie seems to get the most high quality shipping content in the fandom why is that group seemingly the most artistic?
>>738985517Rudy, too.
I legit don't get this retarded obsession with clinging to theories without giving it much thought, it's exactly the same with the FNAF fandom. I've always thought Dess was the Knight but today I was thinking about the POSSIBILITY of Asriel being the Knight. You guys have to see things from different angles or at least explain why you believe in X instead of Y. Calling other anons faggots just doesn't achieve anything even if they are fags
>>738985619It's a pretty basic ship, no matter if you believe Kris is a girl or a boy. More basic means more people will be interested in it.
>>738985492It's not a twist because we have never even seen Asriel and all we know about him is how he decorated his room and what other people say about himWhen he shows up, and however he shows up, it will be a reveal of his characterThere is no solid groundwork for Asriel, it's literally all hear-say from NPCs
>>738985517Forgot about Tenna>>738985625Did Rudy bring up Dess? I don't remember that.
>>738985619Call me crazy but i think the fact Susie has been with us since day might be the reason why the ship has so much support. We also get spend more time with her than we do anybody esle.
>"well well well Kris...is this your first time seeing boobs?">"No your mom don't count weirdo"What the fuck is wrong with Dess ?!??
>>738985586>Why does she have to actively hide in the Light World?Because otherwise everyone would run away from the shadow demon which would be counterproductive to whatever it is she's trying to do. >Why does Kris go out of their way to hide the Knight's Light World form if it looks essentially identical to its Dark World form?He's not hiding her form, but her location, so that she can be where she's needed, and also to hide his own collaboration with her.
>>738985638I don't really get it either. I don't like psychoanalyzing people over the internet, but it usually seems to be some combination of contrarianism and victim complex bullshit. They don't buy into theories that make sense, they buy into contrived bullshit because they want to be the one who said "I told you so!" at the end, no matter how little sense it makes. And the more people try to tell them how unbelievably stupid they are, the more they dig their heels in.>>738985730Yeah, it's in chapter 1 when you inspect the Angel doll in his hospital room. He says Noelle and Dess made it.
>>738985638Dess!Knighters are cultists. It has the mob behind it, so they get violent when it is questioned. It's that simple.
>>738985612We don't know the details, but Dess got lost in the dark. Maybe Kris was involved? Or maybe Carol roped him in for help? Probably the former.
>>738985790Thank you for proving my point about contrarianism and victim complexes. You couldn't have provided a more elegant example.
>>738985638Actually we should just call contrarians faggots. Not just because they are stupid and gay, but because they actively root for making the story worse.
>>738945743The same all women her age who dress like that are looking for: a good hard dicking courtesy of a dominant man.
>>738985764>>738985790>>738985817This is what I'm talking about. You can think Dess is the Knight and also ENTERTAIN the idea that maybe that's not the case, same as with every other fucking theory. I THINK Dess = Knight but I can ENTERTAIN the idea of Asriel being the knight, there's pros for both sides of the argument
>>738985705We have never seen Dess and all we know about her is how she decorated her room and what other people say about her. When she shows up, and however she shows up, it will be a reveal of her character.There is no solid groundwork for Dess, it's literally all hear-say from NPCs.>>738985762Sorry, allow me to rephrase. Why does it hide from Susie and the Player? Why does Kris feel the need to avoid opening the Church closet, certainly a precaution against revealing the Knight to us. What purpose does that serve when, if you are correct, we already know its identity from its Dark World form and cannot attack it without Kris's permission?
>>738985638>>738985764Its a unspoken rule on the internet that if you continuously state your opinion/theory as fact you are likely to influence newcomers who are not as deep into things because you seem like the authority as most people will read the first thing they see on the topic and run with that forever unless directly confronted by blatant info from the primary source personally or that given by a higher status authority figure within that community that they persoanlly like.This understanding then spurs others into posting their own theories and rehashing the same arguments without anyone budging in order to not cede community headspace to something you disagree with.Then you get shtiposters who realize they found a sore spot and begin deliberately poking the bear for attention.i should know I have been a past of the Souls lore community from the time ENB dropped his video of how Darkroot was Oolacile before AotA was announced and that shit can get dire.
>>738985612It's almost like it's huge mystery that could have easily involved Asriel, who is Kris's closest confidant whom they would have almost certainly explained themselves to after whatever happened happened, especially since it tied in directly with his girlfriend whose disappearance Kris clearly feels responsibility and guilt for.
>>738985891No, I actually won't entertain the idea that the story is worse and retarded
>>738985638>he's mad because I called his self-insert theory boring
>>738985935meant for>>738985802
Personally i believe Rudy to be the knight. But i'm also aware that he's optional and can be skipped in every chapter thus far. As such, while i would like for it to be true i'm not lose my shit if it doesn't end up happening.
If you can't craft a stronger narrative/metanarrtive for the game with your theory than the theories your competing with I simply won't support it.
>>738985891I have entertained the idea. I was a carolknighter until like a few months ago. The difference between you and me is that I actually listened to what people had to say instead of going NUH UH NUH UH YOU'RE A MOB YOU'RE OPPRESSING ME!!! WAHHHHH!!!!
>>738985968Based unbothered chad, fitting for a Rudy head.
>>738985893>There is no solid groundwork for Dess, it's literally all hear-say from NPCs.I'm glad you agree with me
>>738985935>who is Kris's closest confidantI'm not so sure Kris likes Asriel enough to explain things to him. As when you click pray for Asriel kris barley puts any effort into it.
>>738985968Rudy knight is fun because it's both unexpected and expected at the same timeA dying man with nothing to lose is willing to risk it all is a classic clicheThe "why" is the issue, because he still has Noelle to look out for
>>738985981Based. It's an idea that gets lost all too often in theory discussion. A theory being plausible means nothing if it would make the story worse by being true.
>>738962129Yeah, no, I agree. I was just saying it was a reasonable explanation for the topic. Even though I really like female humans I already said plenty of times that they will be kept ambiguous for the sake of IMAGINATION. I really do think the theory mostly exists because it's the first time ever that Toby made gender relevant to his story and thus everyone wants to fit their character into that role.
>>738985951you are a faggot then >>738985953it can be boring or not, that's subjective. You don't have to like something for it to be true. For example, I'm sure you don't like the fact that you're a gigantic cocksucking faggot, that doesn't make it any less true>>738985984How do you get that victim mentality from my post? I'm defending what you're saying man, that we should hear eachother out instead of shutting down the argument.
>>738985984My mention of you and your ilk becoming violent refers to your consistent and predictable reaction to serious disagreement with overblown and hostile emotional reactions. Of course, this sort of childish behavior is annoying but harmless. No one has said anything about "oppression".
>>738985893>Why does it hide from Susie and the Player? Susie could and would get in its way. He doesn't want the knight to be stopped (at least not yet) and also doesn't want to put Susie in danger. The only way he can do both is minimizing their interactions. Kris is not in charge of the knight, or at least the knight seems to think its the one with the authority. Kris is probably acting ike a bit of a tard wrangler.Kris hides as much as he can from (you) because he doesn't and can't know you're intdntions. Maybe you want to follow the prophecy and save the world, or maybe you'd be down with helping him follow whatever dangerous shit he's doing to try to save his friend, or maybe you'll get bored and, to pick a random example, decide to start screwing with and training Noelle to kill her own sister.
>>738985968Rudy Knight is less impossible than Asriel Knight. At least he's a deer
>>738963152Noelle Angel has more evidence than other candidates, player angel is lame. We don't know what the angel does yet.
>>738986073>I'm not so sure Kris likes Asriel enough to explain things to him.It's implied Kris is eager for Asriel to come home. "summer vacation college when." is one of the searches in Kris's room in Queen's mansion.>As when you click pray for Asriel kris barley puts any effort into it.This is probably because Kris isn't worried about Asriel considering he's away at college and not in a town with some kind of monster zooming around, snatching people, and opening dark fountains.
>>738986108I have never argued the validity of your theory and only said it's bad writing and you are so God damn mad about itWere you planning to write your own AU fanfiction where your self-insert IS the knight if your theory is wrong and are getting ass blasted someone is already criticizing your work?
>>738967996I love loli humans and the loli deer as well>>738973946This but Frisk (girl) (female) and Chara (girl) (female)
>>738986075>The "why" is the issue, because he still has Noelle to look out forYeah there's also that. Carol in the one scene we have of her didn't give the best first impression of a parent that's concerned for her daughter's safety.
>>738983519I think so but that art posted is older than based on my aunt lol
>>738986076Its even stranger because looking at Undertale the game barring a lack of New home content does a very strong job of tying all of its mechanics and events into a cohesive narrative with themes of experimenting with RPG conventions.To expect him to pull an 11th hour asspull that makes the story worse just have have a twist does a disservice to his work and seems more to be a product of to much time spent debating in forums than actually treating the game as an experience to be enjoyed.
>>738986268>summer vacation college whenNTA but that's a neutral question and the intent behind it can go either way
>>738986317>Carol in the one scene we have of her didn't give the best first impression of a parent that's concerned for her daughter's safetyThat's way too harsh, she was just a bit rude about some vagrant screwing around with her dead daughter's stuff
>>738986268Yeah what this>>738986350 guy said. But I do agree with your second point. Asriel is currently the safest character in the game right now.
>>738951641Hello Stanley
>>738986350The implication is very obvious considering everyone else in town is eager for Asriel to come home as well. And unless someone has another explanation that makes any amount of sense, I'm going to go with the obvious answer, which is that Kris misses their brother.
>>738986123My point is that if you are correct then Kris isn't hiding any new information from (you) when they're refusing to open the closet. If Dess is the Knight, and the player knows who Dess is, then we already know its identity. If Dess is the Knight, and the player doesn't know who Dess is, then showing us her Light World form is no different than showing us her Dark World form, it would be meaningless.Therefore, Kris has no real reason to hide her Light World form from us, but does anyway. I don't buy that it is precautionary, as if Kris is devoted to concealing even redundant information. Kris didn't hide that they knew the Shelter code, for example, or could get into it. This seems to be meaningful, and that goes doubly so when you think about the other examples of Kris refusing our commands to hide information, which only happens when the information regards two figures: Asriel and the Knight.
>>738985760Why would Dess molest this young human girl?
The big problem with Asriel Knight is just that it would just be Undertale's twist but again and I can't see Toby doing that.
>>738986268>>738986449It's not so obvious. Why would Kris be searching "summer vacation college when" when the story takes place in the middle of Fall and Asriel is about to come home?
>>738978586We also like the human characters THOUGH
>>738986370Oh no, I fully support her telling Susie to fuck off. She is a stranger in her house after all. It's her dismissal of Noelle is what i'm talking about.
>>738945743TOTAL MILF DESTRUCTION ( in bed )
>>738986268>>738986350>>738986449Before chapter 4 I 100% believed that Kris wanted his brother back home and that's what the searches implied, but after that fucking flavor text in the church I'm not so sure anymore. It makes sense that Kris wants to see his brother again (remembering his time at the dinner, throat thightening after drinking the hot chocolate...) but maybe he doesn't want to get Asriel involved in (You)r fuckery?
>>738986523The searches aren't recent. There are older ones mixed in as well. The point of the rooms is to show that Queen is out of touch with what people actually want.
>>738986481>My point is that if you are correct then Kris isn't hiding any new information from (you) when they're refusing to open the closetKris can't know how much you're figured out. Hell, Toby can't know that, on a player by player basis. Plus Kris is to some degree aware of the game-prompt like nature of our interaction with his world, and was probably trying to make it look like a cheeky developer line justifying putting a door in the room but not actually making a room to be behind it.
>>738986535No matter how many times i look at this artwork I simply can't get behind it. It just looks bad to me imo.
>>738986576I think that's a totally fair claim. What I disagree with is when people try to claim Kris actually hates Asriel when there's no evidence supporting that and actually requires you to assume Toby is lying every single time Kris and Asriel's relationship is mentioned.
>>738986489*boy
>>738984774
>>738986553Well I think there's a pretty thick line between being inattentive and actually not caring about her safety
>>738986663Do you dislike the artist or just that picture in particular? Honestly I just like it because it's sexy Frisk and Chara without being their adult designs
>>738986489She thinks human girls can be molested when they actually molest you instead
>>738986712Well i guess we will just have to wait until chapter 5 to see more interactions between the two. If we get any. Cause as i said in my earlier post, She didn't give the best first impression. Just like with Rudy knight i am willing to be wrong about this.
>>738986685This is what HFOFA self-inserters actually want.
>>738986589If the search is not recent then it is irrelevant. Kris can be missing Asriel months ago and also be near him today.>>738986673Has Toby ever mentioned how Kris and Asriel feel about each other after Dess's disappearance? To my knowledge, they are seen together often until Asriel goes to college, and then they speak often online. The people who tell us this assume that this is affectionate, but I do not believe that has actually been established.
>>738986770>Do you dislike the artist or just that picture in particular?The latter, but if your this guy>>738986276I can understand you liking it.
>>738986808Human girls own my soul!
>>738986916*boys
>>738986943That's pretty gay.
>>738986979Yeah, your tranny fanart is pretty gay
>>738986506I think the bigger problem is explaining why Asriel would go around starting shit, beating the piss out of his brother and his friends when everything points to Asriel caring deeply about Kris
>>738986342It's probably just wait frying everyone's brains. You gotta remember that this is meant to be a complete story once it's finished. Toby likes to theorybait, but not every single line of dialogue and flavor text is meant to be put under a microscope and interrogated to the degree it often is. The bulk of the game still needs to make sense to people in the future who weren't on the internet talking about it every waking moment of their lives.
>>738986673>>738986887I too don't really like to think Kris HATES Asriel but the second anon is right in mentioning that though their relationship in the past is established as really good (the fake controller to make you think Kris played with it for being the younger one only for Asriel to actually be the one using it made me tear up a little) maybe after whatever traumatized Kris happened, their relationship strained. I'd hate it if this is the case as the relationship betwen Asriel being the older brother going away to study leaving Kris in a home broken by divorce as the relationship between me and my younger brother who I love very much, I don't want to think that he may hate me. I want to finish my exams and come back to visit him and play chapter 5 together
>>738987015Being fair the knight fight was obviously a performative sparring match, but it was also Dess, not Asriel, who was noted as beating on Kris for fun after he baited her into it by teasing Noelle.
>>738987090I bet you're okay with your bro if there isn't a dead girl somewhere in the mix.
>>738986906Damn, you got me lol. But yeah I can see why some would dislike that particular picture. Honestly I prefer the adult human designs even if they're more "off-model">>738986916Based and same
>>738986943>schizo wants human boys to own his soulFaggot alert!
>>738987153Adding more to your point, it was with a wiffle ball bat, which for my non-American friends, is a baseball bat made of thin, hollow plastic. It's very difficult to hurt someone with a wiffle ball bat because it's too light to do any real damage.
>>738987090I too would also like to think Kris like his brother. As someone who never really got to know his older brothers and always wanted such a relationship. I guess we will just have to wait until chapter 6 at the earliest. Because unless he shows up at the end i don't see him appearing in chapter 5.
>>738987015That's actually the easier thing to explain since Asriel can have his mean side and the Knight isn't fighting to kill the heroes. It can just be performative or he's desperate to get Dess back like he was with Chara. The main problem is that Asriel Knight is just Flowey 2.0
>>738987407>he's desperate to get Dess back like he was with Chara.Holy Shit Dess x Asriel is just Chara x Asreil again.
>>738987015Because Kris killed the love of his life.
>>738987153Doesn't Kris do increased damage if Susie and Ralsei are downed? Doesn't seem very performativeOh yeah, I always forget this. Fucking Toriel was the Knight's the intended target in ch3, makes zero sense for Asriel to do that. Mayor L on Kris using his mother as bait like that too, little shit
>>738987380You didn't get to know your brothers? I'm sorry to hear that anon. What's the story?I couldn't be prouder of my younger bros, I love spending time with them
>>738986506I think the original plan, before Undertale was created, was to have Kris's brother be the Knight, basically the Masked Man.When Toby started using bits of that very old Deltarune (so old the main characters were humans that turned into Monsters in the Dark World) to make Undertale, he used the basis of this missing character being the main villain to create the Asriel and Flowey stuff.We also know Asriel used to be associated with wooden bats much like Dess is now, because of the cut "Asriel's Bat" item that Toby revealed in the UT Anniversary streamAnd Dess didn't seem to exist as per the first 2017 draft of Asgore's story about visiting the Holidays in Snowdin, since that story only mentions one daughter and we have evidence of Noelle dating back to at least 2014.So I think as Toby was working on Deltarune properly, he realized that it would be a bit silly to repeat the Asriel reveal again and created Dess to fill in that space, which also explains why Dess mentions are so few in Chapter 1, she had basically only just come into existence in Toby's head by that point as a filler character.
>>738985012>>738984804sauce?
>>738987528We have no idea what the Knight intended to do with Toriel or why it was trying to take her. For all we know, the Knight may have been trying to protect or help her in some way. After all, she only has a nightmare after the Knight is defeated. That's pretty odd if it intended to take her to Gaster's special hell or something.
>>738987534Oh it's nothing tragic(did my post came off as such?). It's just that by the time i was born they were already fully grown adults with families of they're own. So i don't exactly have a relationship with them or they're kids.
>>738987547that makes sense actually, thanks for writing it down coherently anon
>>738963007Closet knight was already debunked in CH2 by using simple deductive reasoning. Queen's camera shows the fountain opening where Berdly was sitting and we get the actual parallel to the closet dialogue in CH4, instead of just giving us the text "a large person could fit inside" Kris refuses to open the door, if they are able to pull such a trick to save the knight why what's the point of the CH2 text? It's Kris misleading us to consider everyone except Noelle, this is just one of many overcorrective mistakes Kris does and it's meant to be a narrative device raise your suspicion. However, the crux of the scene is it's parallel to Noelle's bloghttps://deltarune.com/the_n3w3st_g1rl_g1rl/Noelle goes inside her locker to hide from Kris and Susie, then Kris reveals they knew she was there all along. Sound familiar?>>738963338That's a great question! Unfortunately I missed the scene where putting the ThronRing on Noelle gave us full control over her actions almost like the one we have on Kris, guess it just flew under the radar but I'm sure you'll point me in the right direction. While we're at it, why don't you go ahead and explain how you would expect the knight to act exactly? Since you love to bring up the knight's behavior being the same on both routes, go ahead and explain what difference you would actually expect. Whether she's "mindbroken" or simply has her defense mechanism failing, the knight avoiding direct confrontation and summoning a titan as perhaps a last resort makes sense on both routes more than anything else, not to mention such an act would spoil the reveal and leave no room for interpretation when we've already been teased to the fact we know the knight's face.
>>738987720Kek I thought something bad had happened. Man I can't comprehend having brothers so old they're their own men with families and not knowing them. Not from the US so I don't know how common is that over there but over here I know a couple of cases but it's pretty rare
>>738987737The closet was how the knight got into the computer lab. She waited in there until Berdly and Noelle fell asleep, and made the fountain.
Why does everything in-universe lead to chapter 5 being the last one? Lord of the Hammer ends on chapter 5. The Man only mentions himself appearing up to chapter 5. Seam says you only need 2 more shadow crystals (1 we get from gerson).Is it all actually going to end on chapter 5 and chapters 6 and 7 are bait so the ending hits harder?
>>738987528>Doesn't Kris do increased damage if Susie and Ralsei are downed? Doesn't seem very performativeEven if Susie and Ralsei go down, neither Kris nor the Knight are actually knocked out even if you go on to win the fight. They were either just having fun, or putting on a show for (you)
>>738987689But why would Kris try to prevent AzzyKnight helping her? Besides, we know from the shadowcrystals that Undyne is frozen in ice, so it would also be nice to know how Asriel (known for fire magic) managed that.
>>7389878615 will be the last "normal" chapter. The ones afterwards will be pure plot instead of the lightworld/darkworld adventure formula.
>>738987825And then it escaped in broad daylight with people around but somehow wasn't seen...Impeccable gambit, sir! You solved deltarune!
>>738987407The Knight tried to get Toriel though, Kris had to rope in the cops to avoid that. To say that whole scene was an act, why, for who?Flowey is a different beast to Asriel with a soul. Flowey was at his wits' end trying to feel anything as a soulless flower, that's what drove him to do the things he did. I just can't see regular Asriel summoning titans nd shit for some deer pussy
>>738988018It's stupid, but that's clearly the answer. The knight sneaks around town and lives in the woods right outside Noelle's house. Nobody notices her because reasons.
>>738987798We share the same mom but not the same dad. And my mom was in her late forties when she had me.
Canon Kris boob size at the end of the thread.
>>738987898Kris does not prevent the Knight from attempting to take Toriel. In fact, Kris likely betrays his friends if the player is doing too well or, at the very least, does nothing to prevent the Knight from beating the Fun Gang. In all outcomes, it is Susie and then Undyne which stop Toriel from being taken.Also, that Undyne text is unused, not canonical. Even if it was, we don't know the meaning of the shadow crystal visions. They almost always show us things that are not actually happening.
>>738988157Kris is a boy and you will die by your own hand
>>738987727Thank you.I think the ultimate conclusion of looking at all the UTDR dev history we have is that Dess is the only candidate who can actually be the Knight at this point.I think it's probably a more disappointing way of reaching that conclusion rather than something within the game itself but I think it paints a reasonably accurate picture of Toby's thought process throughout the shared dev cycle the two games have had.
>>738987479Every Asriel ship returns back to Chasriel.>>738988105We don't actually know if Kris was against Toriel being kidnapped or even if Toriel was the original target. Since the Knight takes Undyne immediately you could argue she was always their target. But yeah, I don't see the knight being Asriel either I am mainly playing devil's advocate.
>>738988203Why don't you want Kris to be a hot girl? Are you a faggot?
>>738988242Despite being a meme, the bat imagery makes Dess the only viable candidate. It'd be a cruel red herring otherwise.
>>738988274Only trannies want to turn boys into girls
>>738988157Source?>>738988260He just can't escape her can he?
>>738987407>>738987479>>738988260>>738988325Stop comparing Dess to that retarded faggot psychopath who has nothing to do with Deltarune
>>738988307But Kris isn't a boy, silly!>>738988325Don't have it,sorry :(
>>738987861Lord of the Hammer ends on Chapter 6, actually. 7 was the one that was never written.
>>738988292Yeah, I like Rudy Knight because I do like the trope of Fathers trying to save their Daughters and stuff like that but I feel like explaining it in the text at this point would require Rudy to turn around and just exposit about playing baseball and teaching Dess guitar in a way that would feel hilariously hacky
>>738988191So why did Kris bring Undyne into this? What possible purpose can she serve besides forcing the Knight to take her instead of Toriel. Police sacrifice next week btw
>>738988387>But Kris isn't a boy,Yes he is
>>738988157This but with Frisk and Chara's
>>738987547Wait a minute, you don't seriously believe that Dress wasn't conceived of until 2018, do you?Don't you know about the Undertale mention? "I'll show you the stars"?
>>738988431This but with you know who.
>>738988431>>738988447Too small.
>>738988325No. They're fated to be best friends forever. Friends for 999 years.
My hot take is there's nothing wrong with Jockington. If you look closely, you'll realize his incoherent speech is just him doing a shitty impression of the way Catti talks. And there's already precedent for sprites getting updated between chapters with Noelle.
>>738988410Kris did not bring Undyne into this. Toriel did when she called the police. Had the Knight arrived sooner, or maybe the Dark World traversed faster, Toriel would have been taken without incident.
>>738988478Here's big for you
>>738988478Ok.
>>738988513His japanese dialogue is the same, too. It's just people coping that the gag character is a gag character.
>>738988145Yeah that makes sense, there's no other way to explain the fountain openings.This invisible, omnipotent culprit took the box of chalk, knew that Noelle would set everything in motion by suggesting to get more chalk, then after Alphys sent Susie and Kris, it shut the door behind them and brought the box of chalk back to the classroom by either swiping it under the door or magic or something who cares, then on the second day it hid in the closet waiting for Noelle and Berdly to fall asleep or maybe it made them fall asleep or something then instead of making the fountain inside the closet and leaking it inside it specifically went behind Berdly's chair (or in front of it, doesn't matter as long as it's in sight of Queen's camera) and made the fountain there before leaving the library in broad daylight but no one saw it because reasons then it took Undyne to the shelter and gastered her then went to hide in the church, makes sense.Man, if only we had a character who was a star student, someone with easy to access to all the fountain locations, preferably someone in the cross country team as running fast would help them too, someone in the church choir who would know when the practice ends or is canceled, someone who could open the fountain behind Berdly, someone with Noelle's childhood memories to make the dark worlds with. Sadly, Tony Fox is retarded and left all these details out so we have simply have to fill in the blanks with baseless fanfic.
>>738988520>>738988542Perfection
>>738987547That's what I believe as well. Toby isn't super original lol.
>>738988565Nothing in the weird route makes any fucking sense at all if Noelle was the knight. Also she's not 8 feet tall, there's no reason she would be overwhelmingly powerful in the dark world, and she wouldn't be able to run around carrying Undyne in the light world.
>>738988571Actually it's retarded tranny fanfiction about turning boys into girls, because you all have AGP
>>738988410>>738988517 (me)Also, I believe you are misreading the phone call. It seems to me that we are hearing fragments of a voice, not a voice speaking one word at a time. That is, it is not "police sacrifice next week" but "police... sacrifice... next week", with the ...'s being words we cannot hear.
>>738988542Actually can i get source on this one?
>>738985968the most respectable rudyknighter
>>738988565>If only we had a character who was a star student, someone with easy to access to all the fountain locations, preferably someone in the cross country team as running fast would help them too, someone in the church choir who would know when the practice ends or is canceled, someone who could open the fountain behind Berdly, someone with Noelle's childhood memories to make the dark worlds withThere is another...
>>738988659Not him but I do not believe for a second that Toriel was meant to be taken by the Knight, the plan was to get Undyne all along and the Knight trying to get Toriel was all a trick by the Knight and Kris. It makes no sense that the Knight would use that stupid slow beam to capture Toriel when it could have just swooped in and grabbed her, which it did with Undyne.
>>738988274The schizo is a blatant homosexual, yes.
>>738988517You telling me Kris slashed her tires so she would end up falling asleep in the living room (sleeping while there is a knife wielding maniac on the loose, good job) hoping she never wakes up at any point just so Asriel could take her somewhere safe with her somehow not waking up. Meanwhile throughout all this the cops are on their way. Once they do arrive Asriel for some reason decides to not knock out Undyne, instead he takes her to the bunker where she's now part of some sacrifice subplot. Some real scooby doo shit
>>738988783If we ever do see Asriel in deltarune do you guys think toby's gonna give him a desgin similar to his "God of hyperdeath" form?>>738988480Together forever even in hell. Or how the saying goes.
>>738988571It's based canon facts to portray girls as very cute girls as we all can read the text of these games.
>>738988786We simply do not have enough information to make conclusions about what does or does not make sense about that sequence. We do not know what the Knight's intentions were, what the beam was, why the Knight appeared when it did, or even what exactly the deal with Toriel was in the Dark World. To say anything about that sequence beyond what we literally see can only be speculation.
>>738988773eks_ut on Twitter.
>>738988630The weird route makes sense ONLY if Noelle is the knight, taking control of the one who's making the fountains is the only end that justifies the means. Cruelty, curiosity and desperation to change fate all fail to diegetically justify the weird route. This also directly ties into the stakes knight's true identity carries, why would Kris try so hard to stop us from finding out? What if it's Carol? What changes, nothing, you make the same decision and play the game as you do now. What if it's Dess? Same exact problem, the stakes are somehow even lower. But if you have the means and the ends in mind to ruin Noelle's life then Kris would do anything to stop you from finding out.She's already overwhelmingly powerful in the dark world, she can kill people in the LW from the DW. She's not 8 feet tall yeah but neither is the knight, Susie saw the knight and confirmed it's a regular lightner. Sorry the knight's appearance was so shocking for you that you developed real life trauma from it but I'll take Susie's take over yours considering she saw the knight in person, she clearly wasn't shocked enough to discount the possibility of the knight being a regular lightner.>inb4 B-B-BUT WHY IT LOOK LIKE THATBecause she's wearing all black, in the dark world where the dark acts like light, it would make perfect sense for it to look like that, the fact that's how shadows look in the DW was already shown by the shadowguys.>she wouldn't be able to run around carrying Undyne in the light world.No one could, it's a no-brainer that Undyne was swooned before she was taken out the DW, then she very well could carry her to the shelter but why would we assume she did it alone? Carol could have also been there to help her but there are endless ways to explain this to the point where it's a complete non-issue>>738988783>The game telling us he's in college was a complete lieWay to write a mystery!
>>738988862That's literally the quote Chara quotes in Undertale lol
>>738988914Yes we do. The actions only make sense if Undyne was the target. It's not that hard.
>>738988914It takes 2 seconds of thinking to deduce Toriel was never the target.If Toriel was the target, the knight would take her.The knight didn't take her.Toriel was not the target.
>>738988926The game didn't tell us that Asriel is in college. Characters who are not omniscient did.
>>738989012The Knight is clearly attempting to take her in the image that you posted.
>>738988925Thank you.>>738988958oof, poor Azzy.
>>738989012>picrelActual delusion. There is nothing connecting those two scenes past the surface level. A perfect summation of noelleknightfags
>>738988862This is what Azzy will look like
Noelleknight bro, sorry but I can't take it seriously. Your bad faith arguments just piss me off, and not in a good way.
>>738988926>taking control of the one who's making the fountains is the only end that justifies the meansThe whole point of the weird route is that it's explicitly not justified. We are playing the game "wrong" on purpose in the same way Noelle plays her own videogames just to experience it and the thrill of being bad. >why would Kris try so hard to stop us from finding out? Kris is trying to stop us (and Susie) from understanding his relationship to the knight and their goals, so that we are less able to interfere if we decide to do so. He's not hiding the knight's identity, and we have no reason to believe that the knight even appears as a lightner in the light world. >She's already overwhelmingly powerful in the dark world, Thanks to (you). And she isn't if you don't.>but neither is the knight,Yes it is.>Susie saw the knight and confirmed it's a regular lightner. She did not say that, what the fuck are you talking about? >No one could, An 8 foot tall shadow monster could.Also you're ignoring the biggest problem, which is that Noelle DOESN'T FUCKING KNOW ANYTHING about the knight or Kris's plans or the dark world. How can Kris be covertly working with Noelle to do some cryptic arcane bullshit and also Noelle not know anything about it?
>>738989102That's what he wants. All of his schizposting is fueled by pissing people off because he thinks the more people tell him he's wrong, the more correct it makes him. He's completely divorced from reality.
>>738988852Why are you assuming that Kris intended for Toriel to see him or the slashed tires?
>>738989012The Knight had to be careful to not wake Toriel up.
>>738989047Let me chew the premises more and regurgitate them into your mouth since you're barely more sentient than an overgrown mold colony and spoonfeeding only works so well:If Toriel was the target, the knight would take her.The knight had multiple opportunities to take Toriel.The knight didn't take her.Toriel was not the target.We can actually strengthen our conclusion by considering what other purpose Toriel could serve in the knight's plan. I know this is scary for you but bear with me.Toriel is threatened once and this attracts an emotional response from Susie.Toriel is presumably threatened once again as Susie thinks she's in the church however this turns out to be true, we get a response from Susie regardless.Thus we have multiple confirmed, unmissable instances of Toriel being used as bait for Susie. At the end of chapter 4, we know for a fact the knight was able to take Toriel with no contest almost any time it wanted however it did not.
>>738989095I wouldn't put it past tricky tony to make all those fanon adult versions that turn him into a well bulit jocknerd inacurate.
>>738989221Didn't read past the opening line. You are a repulsive person. Not for your vulgarity, but your uncivilized hostility.
>>738989095Wow he's just Ralsei but less faggy
>>738988926if Noelle is the knight and if Kris and her are working together then what's the point of the scene in her room during the weird route? unless we assume Toby is lying to us about Noelle still thinking the dark worlds are a dream prior to re-equipping the ring then it doesn't make sense. and dark clothes man? how does that explain the knight shape shifting into a jet when all other lightners up to this point retain their light world forms sans a few skin and hair changes. your theory makes more questions than it answers no to mention you're making bad faith arguments. why can't you be more like the rudyknight bros?
>>738989281>I don't have an argument so I'll just cry about the other guy being meanlollmao
Reminder that Kris is Madoka.
>>738989213The whole point of the slashed tires was to bind Toriel and Susie to the house. Why the fuck else would he slash them? For kicks?Your whole justification for AsrielKnight centers on this convoluted plan to get Toriel to safety while she sleeps throughout all of it. It makes no sense
>>738989103I told you why your interpretation is wrong in the post you're replying to and yet you affirmed it anyway, this means you do not see the problem in your own logic. Now this means you're either arguing in bad faith or you're stupid. Sadly, I have no magic wand to elevate you to sapience nor can I see into your heart. I must pick the path of least resistance and assume you're retarded.>He's not hiding the knight's identity, and we have no reason to believe that the knight even appears as a lightner in the light world.So you did not play the game either. Either that or you somehow missed all of it despite "playing" it, in that case I have to wonder how you survive tasks such as drinking water from a glass without drowning or operating a computer enough to bumble your way into a thread and share your opinions. Unless you're some kind of bot.>And she isn't if you don't.Except her power is the first thing established about her in the DW. At this point you've dug yourself into such a hole that I need concrete evidence you're a person at all.>She did not say thatBeyond parody and ridicule.>An 8 foot tall shadow monster could.Let me dismiss my own theory for a moment and grant you everything you want about the knight, go ahead and explain every single logistical problem that arises from your model of the knight. You won't.>Noelle DOESN'T FUCKING KNOW ANYTHING about the knight or Kris's plans or the dark worldWatch what happens when she casts a spell she doesn't know.Jokes aside, it's alluded or straight up confirmed that Noelle is working with Kris again and again in every chapter. If you are willing to die on this hill, why don't you go ahead and test it to its logical extent by playing the game?Noelle sets everything in motionNoelle gets Susie in the DWNoelle whispers into Kris's earNoelle reminds Kris of their "promise"Noelle sings "Don't forget."All the dark fountains are made with Noelle's memories.The whole plot is laid out in CH2
>>738989526Wowzers that's so cool
>>738989358>the scene in her room during the weird routeThat scene makes perfect sense with Noelle as the knight. From start to finish it both alludes to parallels in the knight fight and describes how exactly her episodes work in the first place. In fact, the timeframe the scene is placed via Kris returning the watch leads us to paint the scene of Kris taking Noelle home in the first place while she's still seeing snow, and thus the scene works down to every line in both routes at the same time.>and dark clothes man? how does that explain the knight shape shifting into a jetThe knight isn't shapeshifting at all, did you forget that "things in the dark look different than how they really are"? The whole idea behind the game?Are you going to assert that LW appearances don't change DW appearances? So if someone wore clothes that obscured their identity like a full suit of armor it would all get removed and they would take their one and only DW appearance when we've been shown that DW appearances can change quite easily, with the snap of a finger even. Toriel's cyan robes, Undyne's sheriff badge and description of every equipabble item already contradict this so to say that:"Dark clothes in a dark world can look the way shadows look in the dark world"Requires no logical leaps at all, especially when the game foreshadows this with the shadowguys in the first place.If you are going to assert the knight is a shapeshifter you have to address every problem you bring up and back it all with evidence. This is a problem for YOU.
>>738989582>So you did not play the game either.No, you're just fucking stupid, and you think Kris was hiding the knight in order to hide her identity, and not to just, you know, hide that the knight is fucking here in this room>Except her power is the first thing established about her in the DW. Her potential is. It has to be cultivated.>Beyond parody and ridicule.Yeah, your inability to read dialogue is pretty funny>go ahead and explain every single logistical problem that arises from your model of the knight.There is none. Dess being the knight after transforming into a monster through as of yet unelaborated shadow magic bullshit explains everything.>it's alluded or straight up confirmed that Noelle is working with Kris again and again in every chapter. No it isn't. She doesn't even accept that the dark world is real until chapter 4. >Noelle sings "Don't forget."No she doesn't.>All the dark fountains are made with Noelle's memories.No they aren't.
>>738989541We don't know why he slashed them or what the Knight's plan was, whoever it is, or even what Kris's plan was while he was outside the house. You are going off what did happen as if everything went exactly according to plan, but there is no reason to actually believe that.Your own interpretation is not without holes either, you know. Why would the Knight put on the performance of trying to take Toriel if they were really after Undyne? Why go through the entire process of preparing Tenna, gathering everyone in the living room, and fighting the heroes if they just needed to bring Undyne near the Knight for her to be abducted? The fact is that we can both come up with explanations for these behaviors, but there is no evidence supporting either side. My point is simply that we don't know what is happening in that scene or the end of Chapter 2.
>>738990036Ch3's tv world is prophesied to happen no matter what, Tenna needs to get fucked. Kris' and Knight's alliance is not all that strong, might even be one sided. It wasn't a performance, Knight's goal was to take Toriel but Kris ensured Undyne was taken instead
>>738990405As I said, we can both make up explanations for what happens in the story but that doesn't make them true, only possible, given what we know.Yes, the prophecy has to happen. But that doesn't give us concrete information about the motivations of the characters involved.
