I need some experts please. I just watched the trailer for Stranger than Heaven and it really got me. Since the comment section seems to point to the game as a big prequel for the whole Yakuza series, I'm thinking of giving the series a try before the game releases. The problem is I have absolutely no idea where to start. People online have so many different opinions on how to start the franchise that I feel lost. Two major points to take into account. I don't mind emulation at all, on the contrary, I love PS2 oldies. And from all the comparison videos I've seen, why do Kiwami versions look so fucking goofy and less gritty when you compare them to all the original versions? Is it only the visuals, or are the stories retconned too? To be honest, I didn't play any Yakuza games until now because all I knew about them was the wacky, weird humor clips from all the remakes and not the dark crime story I thought the franchise was about. So are the remakes (0, Kiwami 1&2&3) really worth the trade of less mature content and mood for better gameplay? What do you think /v/?
>>739001514>People online have so many different opinionsPeople online are retarded and so are you for asking. Release order. Ignore Kiwami.>or are the stories retconned too?yes
>>739001726>Release order. Ignore Kiwami.Why I'm asking for your opinions is because it seems the series is now using the Kiwami timeline as the canon one so I'm afraid that I will miss some plot points if I only go OG titles and ignore Kiwami. Like 0 for example don't existe in the OG timeline it's a Kiwami thing right? And I'm sure it's important for the whole rest of the franchise, especially the most recent ones.
If you're determined to play every game, go in release order. If by the time you reach Kiwami you do want to replay the games you already played, play Kiwami as well, if you don't, skip them.But if you're getting in because of Stranger than Heaven, I doubt you'll have time to go through all of them before it comes out, and even if you do you'll be severly burned out, considering how similar the games are.If your goal is to play Stranger than Heaven more than anything else, personally I would recommend starting with 0, then either trying Judgment or going straight to Stranger than Heaven, then you can go back and from 0 start with Kiwami 1 if you still want to play the rest after Stranger than Heaven.So either start with 1 on the PS2 and go in release order, skip Kiwami, or start with 0 and move on to Kiwami, ignoring the PS2 games.As for the wacky stuff, I similarly only ever saw people memeing about that and went in expecting a very different tone, but all of the extra silly stuff is located in frankly pretty low quality side content. If you focus on the main story and the more robust sidequests that come with a minigame like Real State Royale and stuff like that, you'll have a story that does fluctuate in tone but tends to lean much more on drama, and to me that's the biggest strength. The subquests are almost all skippable, in my opinion, the good stuff is in the main quest.0 is not a Kiwami thing, it's more like Kiwami is a 0 thing. 0 was a huge hit for them, but it was initially a regular prequel meant to be played by people who played the rest of the series. Since it became so many people's entry points, they started remaking the first games assuming people already played 0.So either play PS2 or play Kiwami, but you will play 0 either way, just a matter of when.
Play the PS2 Yakuza with the English dub.
>>739002315That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you so much.>trying JudgmentIsn't it a spin-off? Is it really worth it? I was so focused on the main series that I've done absolutely no digging about all the spin-offs.>I doubt you'll have time to go through all of them before it comes outI'm the kind of guy who doesn't waste too much time on side content, even more now that I know it's the side content that contains most of the silly stuff, so don't worry about it. I checked on howlongtobeat, and most of the OG games are around 20~30 hours to beat, so it's not that bad.>So either play PS2 or play Kiwami, but you will play 0 either way, just a matter of when.If I go by release order then 0 is supposed to be played after 5 right? That's why I was worried that 6, 7, and 8 were now part of the Kiwami timeline instead of the OG timeline, making all the retcons canon in a way.
Yakuza flopped in the West>Yakuza blew up as memes on the internet for western audiences.>The sales tell a different story and are tepid and worse entry after entry, Japan and Asia are indeed the majority of sales and that share seems to increase game after game (despite overall sales being lower overall)https://www.installbaseforum.com/forums/threads/bloomberg-netease-to-stop-funding-nagoshi-studio-as-it-cuts-back-on-gaming.4452/page-2#post-406650>sales in Japan and Asia seem to have made up a big part of this momentum, as Yokoyama notes, “The game is incredibly strong in Japan. Sales in (the rest of) Asia are also quite strong, but the momentum in Japan is even greater than in the past.”https://automaton-media.com/en/news/like-a-dragon-infinite-wealth-dev-surprised-by-unprecedented-speed-of-sales-and-big-change-in-sales-pattern/
>>739002914They made Kiwami for the West though
>>739002845>Isn't it a spin-off?It is, but so is Stranger than Heaven. Judgment also takes place in the same universe, same main city and deals with some of the same organizations. It's a very high budget game (for their standards) and a great introduction to the Dragon Engine, which will be used in STH. Yakuza 0 is a different engine.By playing 0, Judgment and STH, you'll get to experience RGG studio at its best in the PS3, PS4 and PS5 generations, as well as experience the city of Kamurocho in the 80s, 2018 and 1965. I think it'd make for a very cool experience, and always fresh because the games will change substantially one from the other.>I'm the kind of guy who doesn't waste too much time on side content, even more now that I know it's the side content that contains most of the silly stuff, so don't worry about it. I checked on howlongtobeat, and most of the OG games are around 20~30 hours to beat, so it's not that bad.Yeah, in that case go ahead, choose whichever one peaks your interest the most, either 1 or 0.>If I go by release order then 0 is supposed to be played after 5 right? That's why I was worried that 6, 7, and 8 were now part of the Kiwami timeline instead of the OG timeline, making all the retcons canon in a way.That's correct, but at least so far most of the retcons are more concerned with retconning the games they're remaking to prepare for what's next, so at least thus far you won't be missing anything. Oh and don't play 0 Director's Cut, it has retarded shitty retcons too.They're not even well made, so for example some of the retcons they do in the remakes is characters who died didn't actually die, but they do it with such a stupid asspull that if you learn that the character is alive the next time they show up in a new game, it'll have as much buildup as if you did play the remake, it's not well written.
>>7390015141 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > Ishin! > 0 > 6 > Judgment > 7 (Like a Dragon) > Lost Judgment > Like a Dragon Gaiden > 8 (Infinite Wealth)Ignore the rest.
>>739003317>It is, but so is Stranger than Heaven.True. Judgment seems even more gritty so I guess if i finally get into the Yakuza series I might give it a try after the main series then.>either 1 or 0.Wait you mean I can start by 0 and then going straight into 1 from PS2?>most of the retcons are more concerned with retconning the games they're remaking to prepare for what's next, so at least thus far you won't be missing anything.That was my main problem and why I made this thread in the first place, also asking if the Kiwami versions were really that "wacky" compared to the OG versions. I think I will go with the >>739003324 order then. Thanks /v/ermin.
>>739004000No, if you start with 0 then continue with Kiwami. I agree that >>739003324's order is the ideal, only reason I type a wall of text instead of simply saying that is that it's a LOT to commit to. 0 is still my favorite of the mainline games so not only it's a great first impression, it's also the best one to play if you end up in a "I did like it but I don't feel like playing any others" situation.If you're only playing one, it should be 0. But it seems like you're pretty determined to go through the whole series, so that order is solid.
>>739001514The PS2 (and PS3) versions of the Yakuza games are just better than their remakes. I would go with the originals and only bother with Kiwamis much later if you're still curious. Even then, you might start playing one and decide it's not worth finishing.As far as the differences, they often copied the script in exactly even including how characters move and shit, but added a bunch of new stuff that is just way worse. They're so close, it's easy to compare and conclude the remakes don't have as good of a story.
>>739003324>playing 13 (THIRTEEN) games just to prepare for Stranger Than HeavenLet's be real OP, you're not going to do this. You're gonna get halfway through 1 and then get bored of it. Stranger than Heaven is going to be so far removed from the established series that it really won't matter, you won't need THAT much context. You don't need to do all of this. If you want a good game to play to familiarize yourself with the setting just play 0. It's going to be the one that's closest to the time period of STH, and it features Kamurocho and Sotenbori which are also going to be in STH. If you end up liking 0 then you can keep playing however many games you want (though 0 is actually the peak of the series, everything else is going to be kinda shit in comparison)
>>739001847it's using a mix of both frustratingly enough. sometimes a later game will reference a substory that only happened in the original game, and other times it will use the kiwami content. either way release order will be best, and the Kiwamis aren't TOO different from the originals plot wise until threewami, which everyone hates
>>739001514Start with the spiritual prequel
>>739001847NTA but>the series is now using the Kiwami timeline as the canon one so I'm afraid that I will miss some plot points if I only go OG titles and ignore KiwamiKiwami largely just adds stupid shit that takes away from the original. You're not going to miss anything of value in this new canon.Bear in mind: the genre has changed over time. These games were primarily beat-em-ups with rpg elements until around Yakuza 5 when combat really started taking a back seat to story (and 5's story is fucking awful). Kiwami follows suit with the later formula.I don't usually answer these kinds of threads but I IMPLORE you: don't go thinking you need to play all these games or even catch up. The first game has overwhelmingly the best story and the rest range from okay to terrible. 0 is the big popular one, I know, don't go rushing to it - it'll be more rewarding if you've played the older games.
>>739004232>continue with KiwamiI will keep 0 aside as a treat until I complete the whole 1~5 main games then, mainly because while waiting for you guys to answer the thread I just watched a comparison between Yakuza 3 and Kiwami 3 and there is no fucking way I'm going the Kiwami route now. It seems to be a fucking massacre of the original.>>739004313>added a bunch of new stuff that is just way worseAnd my biggest fear was that the new stuff would become canon thus important for the recent main series games released after 0 & Kiwami 1. But going by this anon >>739004526post it seems the whole franchise is a clusterfuck using both timeline now? What the fuck are they doing.>>739004439Come on now is it that stupid? I feel like I would not be able to enjoy STH as much as you guys who played the whole main series, the games are not that long according to howlongtobeat so it's not that infeasible. It's not like i'm playing a JRPG with 100h+ needed for each games.
>>739001514I was in the same situation as you last year. I'm here to help you buddy, see the list, play the games in that order below :Yakuza 0 (must play, a bit overrated and long)Kiwami 1 (must play)Kiwami 2 (must play)Yakuza 3 (good)Yakuza 4 (good but you can skip)Yakuza 5 (not very good and you can skip)Yakuza 6 (good)Gaiden aka Yakuza 7 with Kiryu (good)Judgment (must play)Lost Judgment (decent but you can skip)Ishin (decent but you can skip)Thats it. Avoid Yakuza 7 and 8, Pirate and Kiwami 3. They aint worth it. Original Yakuza 1 and Yakuza 2 are very old games I can't recommand to play them first. I won't elaborate further.
>>739001514If you want to go the "Metal Gear" route, as in release order, so you witness the evolution of tech and characters in their natural form, then start with the 2005 PS2 Yakuza 1. It's honestly not that bad at all.If you however want to experience arguably "the peak" of the franchise, while also experiencing THE original prequel game, then Yakuza 0's ORIGINAL, 2015 / 2017 version is the way to go.The recent "Kiwami" / "Enhanced Edition" DE-makes and censored HD ports are a shitty way of experience them. Luckily, GOG.com still has the OG Y0 and up, and you can mod them to restore even more content (such as the Japan-only licensed soundtracks).>Why do Kiwami versions look so fucking goofy and less gritty when you compare them to all the original versions?Because the series' been going through a literal Flanderization for the past decade and then some. And no, it's not just the visuals that are the problem; in fact, even the art style is often DOWNGRADED.As you may have seen, from 7 onwards, it has practically become a meme series, with 1700s pirate ships and space lazers.Yes, there was always some goofy side quests and characters in the series, but it was always balanced very well with the main story arc, that is always played 100% straight. Meanwhile, the Yakuza games are VERY much VIDEO GAMES, not movie sloppa, meaning you will have to turn off your expectations for some super-grounded grit at some point.tl;dr: If you're at all unsure, play either original Yakuza Zero, or the original PS2 Yakuza 1. Can't go wrong with either one of them. Ignore Kiwa-MEH de-makes, and make sure you get the best versions of the franchise.
>>739005495>Yakuza 0 (must play, a bit overrated and long)Way to miss right off the bat.>Kiwami 1 (must play)>Kiwami 2 (must play)Fuck no. WORST versions of both games.>Yakuza 4 (good but you can skip)>Yakuza 5 (not very good and you can skip)UTTER faggotry.Y4 and 5 are THE PEAK of the franchise, right next to Zero's OG release.>Yakuza 6 (good)Fuck off. Just fuck off.
>>739005391The Kiwami shit doesn't seem to matter much to other games. It's very possible Yakuza 9 will directly follow up on Kiwami-only stuff and ignore a lot of the normal games. The ones out now generally treat the originals like the main story and the Kiwami games as weird spin-offs.
>>739005645that suit in the original Yakuza 2 looks fucking cartoonish dude. the way you write is pathetic by the way
>>739005645The PS3 remastered for 3-4-5 is good? PS2 emulator for OG 1 and 2 then PS3 remastered on GOG?
>>739005645it unbelievable how many get memed by this pic.
>>739005391>post it seems the whole franchise is a clusterfuck using both timeline now? What the fuck are they doing.it's bizarre but doesn't really matter too much to the main plots of the games, only specific side stuff so it's not super crucial
As you can see from this thread, the Yakuza fanbase is extremely autistic and it would be best if you didn't join
>>739006120>that suit in the original Yakuza 2 looks fucking cartoonish dude.It does not. It's just PS2 graphics. And they look BETTER.>>739006134>The PS3 remastered for 3-4-5 is goodYakuza 3, 4, 5 and even Zero are all native PS3 games originally, mate.I personally played the PC HD ports of all four, with the 60fps fix + restored Jap OST and de-censorship mods. They don't cure all the issues (ie. certain hostile tranny character's side quest is still missing), but it's definitely a step up.
>>739006263Soulless husks like (You), who have never felt true passion and love for anything, are truly pitiful creatures. Your kind are also to be blamed for the constantly dropping standards within the gaming industry, and all of culture for that matter.
>>739005720>rubber bullets and crazy taxi/ Just Dance ballets are THE PEAK of the franchise, right next to Zero's OG release.you sounds like a woman
>>739006856All of that are peak, Akiyama is the best character in the franchise, and (You) have never touched a woman.
>>739001514As many people pointed out, release order is in order and Kiwami games are to be ignored. I'll add that now I'm replaying the PS2 original 18 years since my first playthrough and can surely say that many people overstate how "obsolete" it is. It looks amazing with its colors, gritty character models and much more sombre atmosphere. And combat is much more methodical and less time consuming. Hell, the change was so gradual that only by the likes of 0 and Kiwami I have realized how tedious the series combat has become with spongy enemies spamming knockback attacks and style bullshit with half of the moves being either useless or ineffective. Oh, and do yourself a favor and try Kurohyou for PSP (there are fan translations for both 1 and 2) if you want the best combat in the series.
>>739007734kiwami games are simply not aimed at new players. which is a problem because 0, k1, k2 and k3 are seemingly following their own changes now complicating matters even more.
>>739006436I'm still mad they've removed tranny chases in both Y3 Remaster and Kiwami 3 (but I guess it's on for the course with every Shitwami). It's one of the first things I remember each time somebody mentions Yakuza 3. This and Kamiyama's lolicon otaku laugh.
>>739001514Start from 0, and play the Kiwami games in order, then go to the remasters for the restIgnore the loser purists, the series ignores the original releases and bases everything off the Kiwamis.
>>739001514>I need some experts>I have absolutely no idea where to start.Is this bait? You posted the Box art of the first game on PS2. Where else could you start but there? The fuck else could you possibly need anyone to explain to you.I'm sick of this question when it comes to most franchises, but Yakuza especially.Don't listen to retards on Reddit (or Reddit tourists that lurk here) telling you to play Zero first. They're wrong.
>>739007989The damage the "Western localizers" have done to the series ever since Sony moved to California is devastating.Can't even have mentions of RAPE or implications of fat-shaming / body insecurities in the dialogue in [current year]!
>>739005391>Never played the series>Sees a youtuber hating Kiwami>Now bases his entire opinion on a youtuberAre people really this brainrotted or is this just a larper
>>739007925That's a lack of diraction for you. With RGGS claiming it's over for Kiwami games there is no point in these awful retcons. Unless they decided that Y4 remake will take a direction so different a simple Kiwami monicker wouldn't be enough anymore. >>739008132>le ignores duh cuhnuhnYou know, once the franchise is full of the same canon-worshipping retards Star Wars and capeshit has, it's all over. When it's not about simply enjpying good stories, great style and humble beginnings of the series but seeing every installment as a part of some "bigger story" (which most of Yakuza games are not) and a mean to lead to the next slop, the series dies. Simply as.
>>739002420>PS2 Yakuza with the English dubAbsolutely and don't let anyone convince you on the undub. Yakuza has an excellent English dub with stellar cast. It simply has to contend with awkward delivery timings and inherent material it covers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDYzG1kGMXw
Play Yakuza 0, judgement and Lost Judgment. You don't need to bother with the rest. There are things to like in other entries, but the more you invest yourself, the more the trajectory of the series will piss you off, better to just play the highlights and get out.
>>739007925>>739008341On the other hand they're adding more content I want to play.
>>739008132I mean. If you think OGs are too dated and never ever intend to play them then just go with Kiwami and don't think too much about it.
The answer is always release order.
>>739008273Look, all the things aside, gameplay-wise Kiwami 1 is lots of tedium. While the original 1 has short random encounters and story fights are balanced the way that regular mooks go down fast for you to switch to the boss-like enemy, K1 has crowds spamming attacks that knock you back and that is not fun and simply wastes your time. Don't forget that due to the same 3 styles of 0 the progression is also gimped if you don't know what're you doing and upgrading DoD with constant Majima spam is a chore. K2 is more or less streamlined and is even playable if you drop the claims of all the OG charm lost but you need to remember that PS2 Yakuza 2 had perfected the combat and made it both precise, fast and very fun, while K2 still had RGGS figuring out how to make Dragon Engine combat not as cumbersome (which they'd only managed to do by Judgment or Not-Kiryu game if you count Yakuza games only).
>>739001514Play 1&2 with the "restored" mods. The PSP games have English translations. Ishin is good but play it last. Skip the kiwamis
>>739008341Not reading your suicide letter. The point is if you're into the series for the future installments, then Kiwami is the best bet otherwise you're going to be confused with newer games since they ignore the original plot.
>>739008650It's not about being dated, it's about not being confused. The OP is only playing the games so he can understand the new game coming out. So Kiwamis are his best bet since the new shit ignores the original continuity.
>>739001514I recommend not as these games are basicly all the same so it will dampen your experience of the new one. If you do anyways just play 0 its the best one and also requires no background info
I've gone through them all except for 8 in the past year and a half or so and the best is still 0 and the only one that even comes close is 5. RGG was just absolutely killing it for a few years in the early 2010s.
>>739001514If you want to go hardcore play release order, if you want to dabble a little before Stranger than Heaven just play Y0
>>739001514Makoto is the father rof nishki, what's not to understand?>which games0,k1,k2,y3,lad,lad iw are the good gamesJudgment 1,2 are very good gamesPlay y4 and 5 if you have plenty of time to sink in. While they have strong moments, they are rather tedious to playPlay Y1, 2 if you are into emulation. By far the best yakuza games, despite being old.
>>739004439I read the divine comedy for Dantes inferno. Now that part 2 is coming, be certain ill ignore that piece of shit of sequel.
>>739004932Is it true that the trilogy will be remade
>>739005391Kiwami 1 and 2 are fine as games, k3 is just shit. Compared to the originals the kiwami are filth.
>>739005495This, except lad. Lad and 0 have the best stories. It's true that lad is no yakuza, but a shonen anime.
>>739001514The Yakuza "fanbase" are a bunch of angry miserable faggots now. There really isn't a bad game in the series aside from Dead Souls. Just play all of them, if you don't want to emulate the ps2 games the Kiwami games are fine they just have some cut content and a less gritty mood. The only Kiwami that messes with the timeline is Kiwami 3 changing the original ending which you can just watch on YouTube
>>739005495>5>not very good>K2>must play SHIT TASTE!
>>739012979Haruka kills 5 replay for me. Can't even skip properly.
Release order, as usual. Safe to skip the ps2 games for the Kiwami 1 and 2 respectively.
>>739001514Try Judgment first, it's a self contained story with it's own set of characters that has a very good satisfying conclusion and gives you an idea how these games play.If you like the style start with 1 whatever version or 0 not DC
>>739013460Still haven't finished all substories, despite 70h. It has a lot of small hickups and hank, too. Some goofs , too.Kinda puzzling given the expertise and budget the crew had. I don't see ai improving vidya output, despite getting g golden ai output. Are people too high to prompt properly?
Jesus youtube sucks monkey ass. I type the fucking song and all I get are reactions and AI ''enhancements''. Christ almighty.
>>739013809It's by design. Hide the source, ship the derivatives. Swallow up, buttercup.
>>739012217I think the only thing I could bitch about with yakuza is people playing it in english, it's fucking retarded no matter what anyone says to me, you are RETARDED playing a game like that in english.
>>739012217>The Yakuza "fanbase" are a bunch of angry miserable flPile of secrets, we know kiryucula.
>>739001514RELEASE ORDER
>>739001514>I need some experts pleasePlay them in release order. Don't listen to any overly complicated post or anyone who tells you to start with 0. PLAY THEM IN RELEASE ORDER.
>>739001514Play them in release order. 0 is not a remake, it is not a Reddit humor game and you should still play it after 5 and before 6 because of release order. Skip anything with Kiwami in the title. The originals are better for the reasons that you're thinking of, but OG 3 has better gameplay than Kiwami 3 if you really get a feel for the mechanics. PS2 1 doesn't have that Majima Everywhere shit, and PS2 2 is pure kino. >I didn't play any Yakuza games until now because all I knew about them was the wacky, weird humor clips from all the remakes and not the dark crime story I thought the franchise was about. If we ignore Kiwami, only 8 and Pirates are wacky. 7 is well written, and Ichiban was pretty charismatic. You'll either love 8, or you'll hate it. It's better to think of 7 and 8 as a sub-series to the previous games. Ignore Pirates completely. Even when compared to 8, they went overboard with the goofiness.
The answer to any "how do I get into this series" is always release order unless we're talking about a series where the stories aren't connected like FF or DQ where you can start anywhere.
>>739015270except for yakuza where you should just play 0 first because 1 sucks
>>739015270Yokoyama said that I don't need to play any of the Yakuza games before Stranger than heaven, I think I'll trust him more than a random anon
>>739011975>Now that part 2 is coming,Where did you get this? Was it revealed to you in a dream?
>>739012217>There really isn't a bad game in the series.
>>739006263
>>739001514Just play Judgment and forget about the mainline series
Yakuza is a pretty mid franchise
>>739018068This.
>>739015696Saw the trailer.
>>739015696God dammit, those are two separate>spiritual SuCcCeSsSoooOrsS
Any piratebro managed to finish Judgement on PC? Apparently the Denuvo crack has some bugs in some missions.
>>739017658The "worst" mainline game, 3, is still worth playing and Kiwami 3 isn't even that bad. I bet you think Pirate Yakuza was awful
>>739021090>I bet you think Pirate Yakuza was awfulGod forbid people have standards
>>739017902Judgment is just boneless Yakuza
>>739023598Boneless in what sense? When I eat a piece of meat I throw the bone away. So are you saying Judgement is like Yakuza but without the boring parts?
>>739023598Boneless because it actually has good chatacters and decent writing?
Play the undub of the originals on the ps2 or the kiwami versions. THe kiwami versions are quite different in a few aspects but the story is the same.Then play Yakuza zero and if you want play the yakuza psp game(they are completely separate stories that have no bearing in the main canon but are fun regarless)Play the others in other if you like but the series goes downhill after 2.
>>739024174Nu-"Yakuza" fans only like the retarded meme shit real fans hate because tze franchise has become a parody of itself for playing up the Reddit quirkiness. Judgment actually takes itself more seriously with stuff like hunting down a panty sniffer being relegated to side content.
>>739001514just play yakuza 0. it's the best one(by a good bit) and a great one to start on so you wont be overly familiar with the game by the time you play its peak. if you're hungry for more then you decide where to go after 0
>>739021090All three you just mentioned are trash, add 6 to that too.
>>739020423Post link
>>739007925>kiwami games are simply not aimed at new players.They're aimed at both new and returning players since they constantly reference the original games and the newer games. The problem is that now the Kiwamis have made the originals not fit into the modern timeline and K3 can't even happen if 4 happened so they themselves have screwed up this new timeline until Shin 4 happens or whatever they end up naming not-K4.You can't slot K1 through K3 into the original timeline without causing tons of continuity issues, particularly with the Amons (Who are now canon to the main story). You can't allow K3 at all because things from 3 are referenced in other games like the HLA, Minamida being helped out by Kiryu directly to Akiyama in 4, or Michiru in 4 and Dead Souls (Which is part of the main story of DS for Ryuji). Even 0 brings up issues with Majima loving Makoto instead of Park when 5 beats it into your head that he was obsessed over her for like 20 years yet he's still pining over this chick he knew for three days (Roughly how long 0 took) to the point he knows her watch strap size.
>Transkuza
