Fallout 3 had actual skill checks, where you had a chance to pass or fail. Speech checks for example were percentage based. But in New Vegas they changed it so that its a guaranteed pass/fail each time depending on your skill level. This makes it feel less like an RPG and more linear and scripted. After all whats even the point of trying a speech check in New Vegas if you know its a guaranteed failure?
>>739046708>0 seconds since FO3fags seethed about NVlol
>After all whats even the point of trying a speech check in New Vegas if you know its a guaranteed failure?The point is to let you know that the check is possible if you have the required skill points or S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stat amount.
>>739046708>After all whats even the point of trying a speech check in New Vegas if you know its a guaranteed failure?The funny responses duh
>>739046708>my shooter with slowmo is better than your shooter with slowmo and dykesJesus Christ, how many decades have you been doing it?
>>739046752Kek
>>739046708It was probably to try prevent save scumming and make sure players actually invest into their skills/builds
>>739046708These fake ass bait threads should end with you getting stoned in the street
>>739046708Everyone who played Fallout 3 savescummed their way out of the percentage based skill checksMeanwhile you cannot cheat them in New Vegas, you either have the skill requirement through your character, drugs and magazines and armor bonus, or you don't, forcing you to roll with itTherefore New Vegas is the better RPG game
fallout was never good
WRPGs were never good
>New vegas feels less like an RPG than fallout 3
>>739046708>I'm looking for my father, middle-aged guy. Maybe you've seen him?
>>739047808Emil I kneel
>>739047808OH NO NO NO NO HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>739046708I imagine that even transparent skill checks were too much for the bethestards, so they decided to casualize it even further by making them transparent thresholds with zero risk attached
>>739046708I agree with this. There’s no challenge when the “correct” dialogue option is conveniently highlighted for you, and there’s no possibility of failure. Why would you choose any other option? It just turns the game into a boring, glorified VN.
>>739046708Not for me. Fallout 3 feels like a jet induced fever dream.
>>739048312>Why would you choose any other option?Because it won't necessarily lead to the better outcomeJust look at how many illiterate retards got filtered by Dead Money because they just kept choosing the shiny special skillcheck dialogue options, instead of actually reading the conversation
>>739047808Reminder this ends up being bullshit anyway because bethesda made a DLC that just revives your character after this so you can keep goingThey're incredibly incompetent
>>739048312There is no "correct" dialogue option in New VegasThe "correct" option is whichever you find most appropriate to the situation and your character build and roleplay
>>739046842NTA. But as far as RPG flavor goes, can't you consider that far less RPG-like than rolling the dice?You're saying the point of the option if you can't pass, is to provide metainformation. Basically soft savescumming.
>>739048406That’s extremely rare, though. I like, for example, that Colonel Moore gets pissed at you for not destroying the BoS if you get them to help the NCR in the battle. But 99% of the time, clicking on the obvious "good guy" option is a no-brainer.
ITT: Bethestards cannot grasp the concept of "roleplaying" if it's not just emptying samey looking dungeons for 50 hours
There's my alarm! Time to take the pills.
>>739046708After 2 every fallout became less and less of an RPG. I'm surprised they still had a skill check for pickpocketing in 4 instead of a minigame or some shit
>>739046708New Vegas plays more like an adventure game.
>>739046708the whole [this is a skill check!!] thing is retarded and ruins dialogue imo, game plays way better if set to remove all the tags in stewie tweaks, then you actually have to read the thing, and you wouldn't know you're even failing a skill check
>>739046708>After all whats even the point of trying a speech check in New Vegas if you know its a guaranteed failure?Uh, roleplaying? Are you fucking stupid?
>>739047808>line so dumb it circles back to being kino
>>739047808I clapped
>>739048916In real life you don't know if your speech skills are gonna be successful until you try them. That's why D&D uses dice rolls for that, to make it less predictable.
>>739048596>There is no "correct" dialogue option in New Vegas[Speech 75] *Say the correct thing.*
>>739048475It just reiterates on the Christian themes
>>739046921This
>>739046752>>739047808>>739047882>>739048005>>739048693Don't try it kid, I turn fast.
>>739049027Sure, but that's not the point I'm making. OP is asking what's the point of choosing a "failed" check in New Vegas as it exists, and my answer is to roleplay as what your character would naturally say.
both 3 and this game are garbage
>>739049056see>>739048693
>>739046708>I'd rather reload a save over and over to reroll RNG than simply be rewarded for my skill selection Cool, you're dumb
both 3 and 4 are garbage
>>739046708Fallout 3 is a garbage game with no roleplay in it at all.
>You can save scum if it's percent chance >But you can't save scum if it's fixed amount by taking stat boosters or returning after a level up. It's impossible Don't show the odds. The devs were retarded with NV skill check
>>739049369>But you can't save scum if it's fixed amount by taking stat boosters or returning after a level up. It's impossibleIt will be a lot harder if you didn't level up a skill enough
>>739046708Fallout 3's way works better when it isn't a video game with save files that can be savescummed. Same problem BG3 has, people are inclined to abuse the system and force a win.NV makes more sense for a video game, you need the requirement.The best is fallout 1 where you are given a multitude of options and, even with good speech skill, you must pick the right options out of the bunch. You need the skill to initiate the choice at all, then you must navigate it yourself. It has more engagement with the world.
>>739049403I don't have skill magazines in 3 that can make up the difference
>>739049179That’s not really role-playing. You’re refusing to optimize out of shits and giggles. There’s no reason not to pick the option that gives you everything with relatively no downsides.
>>739046708The best implementation of skill checks is VtMB. They're totally invisible unless you're over the threshold, and the game has scripted failures. It also has a significant amount of clan specific checks and low Humanity dialogue, and of course the entire Malkavian script is totally different to every other clan. This is again, all invisible.
>>739049540Erm some guy that you will never see again or benefit you dies if you pass his skill check
>>739049461just don't cheat?you can save scum in 1 btw, and the checks are unmarked but still obvious because of how they're written
>>739047808This single image has destroy countless shitout 3 fag...
>>739049487No but you can just bruteforce checks by doing F5/F9 until it goes throughMeanwhile in NV, if I need 60 science or speech or whatever stat, and I only have 25, because of my choices when building and leveling up character, then I'm fucked, and the only solution is to leave and tediously level up until I can finally select the dialogue option I wantSo, the best solution is to let go and roll with your current character abilities even though you won't get the most satisfying outcomeThis is called roleplaying btwThis is a good thing>>739049540The reason is roleplaying a certain type of character for funRoleplaying is fun
>>739049563>scripted failureswow thats super subtle, ive played the game three times and never noticed that, awesomefallout fans are morons t ho and dont want to touch troikas other classics other than the first fallout, they would prefer to stay in their bubble. fallout is the smash bros of rpgs in terms of how insular the fanbase is and how much other rpg fans disdain them
>>739049675Thats how you're meant to play but players will obviously always cheat, especially with such an ingrained behavior like save scumming in an RPG
>>739047808This is genuinely tragic because of how stupid yet easy of an problem it was to fix. Literally just have your companions be separated in some scripted sequence so this scenario wouldn't have happened. I unironically like the theme/idea behind Fallout 3's ending but this shit is so retarded.
>>739049813i don't really care how other people play games. I guess you can seed the rolls early, use an honor mode like bg3, or a save cooldown like the casinos in new vegas.these bethesda games give you a dev console and are easy to mod to your tastes anyways
>>739049797All Troika RPGs (especially Arcanum) are unfinished garbage just like most Obsidian RPGs
>>739047808they fixed that in the dlc you fucking RETARDD
>>739046752>0 seconds since NVfags seethed about Fo3lol
>>739050102arcanum mega mogs fallout 1 and 2 and bloodlines is on par with new vegasalso if you are complaining about a game being unfinished and youre a fan of new vegas you have no room to speak lol
>>739050206I'm not a new vegas fan you dummy
>>739050249my mistake g*daps you up*i havent had my morning coffee
>>739049789That’s such a shallow way to handle role-playing. Fallout 1 handles this best by making speech checks obscure, and the dice roll also prevents them from being guaranteed wins. So when your character says something unconvincing, it’s not because you, the player, are purposefully playing dumb, it’s an outcome of your specific build.
>>739050162But Ron Perlman still chastises you for it so it's still retarded
>>739046708>But in New Vegas they changed it so that its a guaranteed pass/fail each time depending on your skill levelSo Fallout 1 isn't an RPG? More importantly, it's an apple's and egg's difference of design. Both of them are RPGness. But I will push back on NV's gate skill check being odd, because that's the standard in most RPGs and it's there to not incentive players to waste time savescumming speech check>>739049954Just have Fawkes die trying to save you. Then later on, you realize the irony that he was probably more suited to the task than you were. Now there's a DOUBLE motivation of going good or evil.Good would mean paying back Fawkes for his sacrifice. Evil would mean that you turned your back on him. You add another layer to the stakes at hand.
>>739047808same vibe
>>739047808>>739050452It's funny how jeets like both this game and movieIronic even
The real problem with New Vegas is places don't change.I wanna see New Vegas meaningfully look different throughout the playthrough. I want to see NCR hassling Free Town, Legionaries hanging around Nippton, or my legion of robots policing the populace. Instead, NV is just another one of those games where you gotta "imagine" all this dynamism, like it's an 80s PC game.Fucking FO1 got it perfect. You mess around enough, and towns will get invaded by the mutants. Awesome, epic, perfect. I can see that the world exists, that people have agendas. NV I don't feel like anyone has an agenda because everyone's on my timetable.
>>739050447>Just have Fawkes die trying to save youActually didn't think of that but yeah that would have made it so much better.
>buy NV back in the day>excited to play it since there were so many threads about it and it seemed fun>play the game>it's a boring as fuck walking/talking simulator>the characters and dialogues are really bad >barely any action/v/ tricked me into thinking this game was good and everytime I complained about this NVniggers chimp out babbling about FO3 nonsense
>>739050586It would have been even more like that originally with the more advanced mutant invasion system. In the finalized version only Necropolis is actually wiped out by the mutants in game. Admittedly a lot of the endings in Fallout 1 were a complete mess, with some of them being straight up broken or unfinished. This is something Fallout 2 genuinely did better overall.
>SAAAAR DO NOT REDEEM THE NEW VEGAS ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME YOU SON OF BASTERD BITCH
>>739046708>Fallout 3 had actual skill checks, where you had a chance to pass or fail. Speech checks for example were percentage based. But in New Vegas they changed it so that its a guaranteed pass/fail each time depending on your skill level. This makes it feel less like an RPG and more linear and scripted.This is the most retarded take I've ever heard.
>>739048632And how is it any different from being able to see a lock you can't pick because you didn't build a thief character or the fact that locks and computers aren't dice-based to complete? There's nothing that says skills in an RPG need to be dice-based just because that's how it is in tabletop. Especially considering in TT, you have a DM arbitrating things and can't savescum at all. Off the top of my head, PST and VTMB both just have stat checks and they're two of the most acclaimed RPGs out there.
>>739050586nobody likes global time limits in their games, I do, but I also know that most gamers don't
>>739050206>bloodlines is on par with new vegasNo it isn't. It's better
>>739050771Huh, I was on a different patch cause I remember seeing Junktown destroyed.>>739050851You're not supposed to like it, it's supposed to act as a stressor. It reframes the gameplay, such that you are more conscious of how you're playing it. Not only that, it's realistic. Not in the "people need to shit" realistic, but it's realistic in the sense that it gives the villain actual power and stakes. If I spend months doing caravan runs, then the mutants shouldn't sit on their asses for me. Meanwhile every game likes to pretend there's a dark evil threat whose perfectly content to wait while I kill regulators and deathclaws in the Boneyard
>>739050206New Vegas is dogshit. More Bethesda garbage
>>739050753>play a rpg game with loads of dialogue>WTF why is it a rpg game with loads of dialogue
>>739051052bad* dialogueyes, lots of bad dialogue and no actiondon't cherrypick you dumb retard
>>739050974>Huh, I was on a different patch cause I remember seeing Junktown destroyed.Yeah it must have been or maybe you're misremembering
>>739050974hey I like your example more, I'm just pointing out that most of the time, that's seen as a negative for the game
>>739050753>Buy game in a genre you don't like>Get mad that other people who like the genre 'tricked' you by liking something you don'tPure /v/ brain.
>>739050841NTA but the lockpicking/hacking minigames are very anti-RPG design.and his issue isn't that the thresholds for checks, but the metainformation that makes failure impossible. PST and VTMB have the information obscured so you still need to weigh some sort of risk/reward in your head relative to your skills
>>739051089It's great actually
>>739050586The only thing that changes in FO1 is that the Super Mutants kill entire cities and you basically lose out on quests and NPC interactions if you take too long. Even as someone who loves FO1, I never thought that it was handled well and there's a reason why they cut out the world changing as time passes in FO2. I think a better way to handle a dynamic world is to do what the Stalker games do. The NPCs are all scavenging and looting the world at the same time you are, and can also finish side missions for each other. Take too long, someone loots a cache full of resources, takes an unique or rare artifact for themselves, or resolves a very lucrative contract that you could have done, but only you can progress story missions.
>>739050206>arcanum mega mogs fallout 1 and 2Fallout 1 mogs Arcanum despite being older
>>739047808What's actually funny is that at some point Emil realized that he wrote some stupid shit and instead of rewriting it he just made it worse. Wish I could be Todd's college buddy and earn millions simply because of that. All my friends are just some losers who borrow money from me instead.
>>739050973It would be better if only the level doesn't didn't nosedive after Santa Monica.
>>739046708you say this, but i bet that you savescumed until you passed any f3 skill check, meaning that you didn't even put the necessary points into the appropriate stats
>>739046708Okay, but can you make a Fallout 3 thread without mentioning New Vegas?
>>739046708>After all whats even the point of trying a speech check in New Vegas if you know its a guaranteed failure?Roleplaying.
>>739046708>But in New Vegas they changed it so that its a guaranteed pass/fail each time depending on your skill level.They did it to prevent people from simply reloading and trying the check again. New Vegas way means you have to actually have the skill to pass it and not just F5-F9 a few times.
>>739046708Skill check this retard
>>739046708It's funny how FO3 fags are at perpetual war with a game that's virtually the same, it's literally their own game's expansion pack.Don't you have other RPGs to pick a fight with?
>>739050162lol nothe slideshow is still fucked and acts like you killed lyons at least on pc
>>739046708I haven't gone to these threads for a while. Is anybody going to bring up how Bethesda not having the source code to New Vegas adds credibility to the idea that Todd is seething about New Vegas?
>>739046708New Vegas skill checks are a massive cop-out compared to having actual systems, but there's also nothing inherently RPG about percentage based checks. The way that FO3 and NV work is fundamentally the same.
"RPGs" don't exist because in every single game including non-"RPGs" you are playing a role. Just take the game as it is you fucking faggot.
>>739050586>mfw seeing those fucking tires at nipton still burning months laterjust one tiny line of script to disable them when you reach boulder city or something, ffs obsidian it's right in your face on the main road
why does this game let you kill a 14 year old girl (the bos girl in the bunker) but no other children
>>739046708Ok, /v/, explain it to me like I'm a newfag, since when did NV become a tranny game?
>>739054916it's off screen so it doesn't count. The same way you can kill kids in f3 by blowing megaton up but can't shoot them
>even the horrible TV show had to go to Vegas because 3 and 4 have basically nothing to use storywise
>>739055007around a decade ago after leftist youtubers started praising it
>>739046708>Master doctor>The most intelligent, steady handed, well studied medical doctor to exist, even by prewar standards>Animal has a splinter>Oh god oh fuck oh shit>Blow it's brains out because you rolled a 1
>>739046708>Speech checks for example were percentage based. But in New Vegas they changed it so that its a guaranteed pass/fail each time depending on your skill level.This is how it should be. RNG for speech checks is retarded. They should always be deterministic.Is you speech skill too low to pass a speech check? Well then pop a mentat and try again!
>>739051132>the lockpicking/hacking minigames are very anti-RPG design.I don't think that was what that anon was talking about. It's more like if you were playing tabletop, came across a locked safe, and asked your GM if you could try and find a way to open it without any tools. The answer would be "no" or at best "you can randomly try and bruteforce the combination, but the check will be so high it's effectively impossible." Well, that's if the GM isn't off his head. >PST and VTMB have the information obscured so you still need to weigh some sort of risk/reward in your head relative to your skillsBut that's entirely illusory. Both games functionally operate like NV where it's a flat pass/fail, and anyone with half a brain will figure this out long before they've finished either game.
>>739055841>But that's entirely illusory. Both games functionally operate like NV where it's a flat pass/fail, and anyone with half a brain will figure this out long before they've finished either game.no, because you are always certain whether you can pass in new vegas. there is zero reason to ever fail a check in that game.
>>739056345i always wanted to complete the challenge for failing x amount of speech checks. i never did
>>739055142you can blow her fucking head off with a shotgun lolmaybe it was a mod that let me do it though
>>739056345And you should always be certain that you'll pass a check in VtMB. If you see the magic colored text, you pick it because you quickly learn it's the magic "I win" button. In PST it is more obscured, for sure, but generally speaking it's obvious what dialogue choice will lead to the best outcome and that there's no risk of failing if you pick it. That's why I said it's illusory, and I have to assume you've at least never played VtMB to be disagreeing with that sentiment.
>>739046708Deterministic > RNG
>>739056508You could role play in the game and pick choices that your character would do even if you know it won't work, because it's you playing their role
This jeet makes this thread every day
>>739057013>Including that scary voice acting session where Ron Perlman threatened my lifeLmao what
>>739056932Obviously, but that's an issue separate from whether or not random dice rolls make for a better roleplaying experience they don't.
>>739050586This is why you install shit like TLD, Quarry Junction expanded, etc
>>739049081You’re a shit worshiping jeet you know nothing about Christianity
>>739056897Why are you never in the fagio threads?
>>739047808FAGOUT3 SISTERS OUR RESPONSE?????
>>739048886That's how fallout 1 and 2 did it, right? Different stats gave you unique dialogue but the player would have to determine the best choice. I could be wrong
>>739046708>yes, I like it when I don't actually have to meet the skill level for a check, I am cool with savescumming when I've already decided I should pass it before passing it. No, NV doesn't play that bullshit.
>>739058098self reporting your lack of self control
>>739057842Did fagio get banned or something, surprised he isn't in this thread
>>739058192not me, little bro>games need to have easy modes, not my fault you can't help but select it
>>739057950Your stat gave you dialogue options, some of them led to a dead end, and some of them required a minimum skill number for a dice roll to be available to begin with, but with high enough skill you had 100% chance to pass the roll>>739046708>Despite the absence of a Game Master to come up with alternative paths to work around an unlucky dice roll, video games should emulate the randomness of the dice for the sake of infinitely less outcomes.
People defending the change in New Vegas, on the grounds that it prevents savescumming, are making a very bad argument in my opinion. Sure people can savescum, but serious players wont, and ultimately the game is better when skill checks are dice rolls rather than just a guaranteed pass/fail. An RPG is about a chance of passing or failure, not a guarantee. Real RPGs have always been about rolling with the punches. Even if the check fails there will be other options. New Vegas changed it for the worse. I think it would even be better if all the other skill checks were dice rolls based on your stats, even lockpicking or hacking.
>>739058562Whether a game uses rng or thresholds, you have a pass/fail state created by the DM (developers). It doesn't really matter which>>739058691New Vegas fans aren't RPG fans. They dislike actual RPG mechanics and just want a first person shooter with tacked on VN dialogue
>>739058328>>739058846SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR THE FALLOUT 3 IS THE BESTEST SAAAAAAAAR
>>739058691all I'm hearing is appeal to tradition, no actual reason why this is better.
>>739058691>Even if the check fails there will be other options.>Just have the development time extended to a century so every significant failure point that RANDOMLY invalidates your build has an alternative that can also be randomly invalidated to dissuade save scumming via viable alternatives.>>739058846There is no GM present in real time, there is a finite amount of dev time.If my skill is too low for the roll, then I won't roll out of respect for the game (conditional), my time, and myself. If a roll fails on a skill I prioritize then I will reload a save because it's bullshit and there is no thought out alternative.
>>739059343You should play a different genre if you are afraid of the friction RPGs provide. They are for people why enjoy roleplaying, not automatically winning because they specced a relevant skill
>>739058315He will be back soon, I got banned for calling him out in the last thread he did this. It will be over later today.
>>739059498RNG adds nothing to the roleplaying aspect of the genre, thoughbeit. The best argument ITT to say otherwise is that "you don't know the outcome before you decide to do something" in real life, but that's doesn't actually have anything to do roleplaying. If I am motivated to try and embody a character with a certain personality and values I've invented, I'm not going to be using meta knowledge about how the game fucking works when choosing his/her/its dialogue options.
>>739061019>I got banned for calling him out in the last thread he did thisHuh, why?
>>739061175We have different definitions of roleplaying. The kind you enjoy is done in gmod servers, not RPGs
>>739047808>Emil sweating bullets on the 0.00001% chance that room kills him
>>739061534Why is Tim Cain always asked about Fallout lore stuff when he wasn't even one of the writers
>>739061763He was the lead and main designer and all story components went through him. He probably had lots of uncredited additions and rejected/approved the core story and setting beats.
>>739061548>The kind you enjoy is done in gmod servers, not RPGsYou should probably tell all the people who play actual pen and paper tabletop in the way I described to go take it to fucking gmod, then, LMAO.
>>739062642I would. you should come to /tg/ there's a lot of grognards who will do the same
>>739061261Because I called him out and told him to fuck off and the mods for some reason never just ban him but have to ban everyone telling him to fuck off as well.
>>739054916do you mean watkins? cuz i don't remember any kids therewhere did they ever told her age? she has adult npc body and looks adult, she also banging the scribe dude
>>739063827Grim
>>739046708Lol didnt readAve, true to caesar
>fo3 perks>you are awesome and really like guns and repair>effect: small guns +5 and repair +5, take up to 3 timesThat's some quality roleplaying. Glad NV threw that garbage out.
