>"I thought I had done almost everything I could," he said. "So I told Mr Miyamoto: 'Look, I have already done that and I have already done this, there seems to be few more things that I could do with Zelda. So can I graduate from it?' And Mr. Miyamoto said: 'OK!' So I took his word, but the next assignment he gave me was: 'You are going to take care of this new Zelda game.' I said: 'Wait a minute! I thought that you gave me permission to work on some other projects.'">"So, yeah, somewhere in my mind I really want to take some distance away from it, but the fact of the matter is I am more and more involved in The Legend Of Zelda, and sometimes I think it is a kind of... fate for me, so I should give up escaping from that!”
>>739063261no one cares about that linearslop uncslop garbage
>>739063347Uncs do
>>739063347>>739063398you're 30+ years old, stop LARPing as teenagers
>"You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you?"
>>739063261Everything I hear about Miyamoto makes him sound like a fucking worm that all his coworkers/subordinates hate
>>739064279There's a reason they based the Happy Mask Salesman on him.
I don't hate aonuma but I wish koizumi had been assigned to the zelda mines instead
>>739063261So that's why he's been ruining zelda from BotW on, seething hatred.
>>739063261KWAB
>>739065226The fact he constantly shoves in OC Donut Steel characters into every game and clearly only includes Link, Zelda, and Ganon out of obligation didn't clue you in? The fact with each entry he has been retconning out the Goddesses, the Triforce, and the sages and their creation of the Master Sword wasn't a clue? It's been pretty clear for a long time that Aonuma resents LOZ.
>>739065226>from BotWHe ruined it with WW. TP was a brief moment of clarity (even if it was still worse than the 64 games) then he fucked up again with SS. BotW far more successful at what it goes for than WW/SS
>>739063261The Raped
>>739065226Possibly but the real reason is he is not a gamer. He has admitted he couldn't play the first Zelda because he would die to the Octoroks. He turned Zelda into a puzzle game and baby-fied the combat. Its a massive problem within Nintendo. Miyamoto brought in a bunch of people who barely know games. So after the retirement party remakes and the boomers leave, you are going to be left with a ton of people who don't even know what a game looks like. Its going to be worse than fucking Sony. The only saving grace is Koizumi has a few years left.
>>739063261So Miyamoto raped Zelda by forcing it on a retard who clearly hated the series.Sucks, man. BOTW couldve been prevented.
>>739066802>He turned Zelda into a puzzle gamehe didnt work on alttp though.
I still like Twilight Princess, Aonuma's hatred worked in its favor by making him lazily copy Ocarina of Time almost making it the remaster of it.
>>739067692He did the same thing to Imamura and starfox, it was actually impressive how much he wanted to kill his IP's in the 2000's
>>739065226Funny how you OoTsnoys insists BoTW "killed" Zelda when it's by the far the best selling game in the entire franchise, only rivaled by ToTK.You're a detractor that never liked Zelda.
>>739064279I do want to know who at nintendo is the biggest jew who still wants to keep their shit games exclusive if not fucking Myamoto. We lost Iwata and Reggie so who the fuck is it but him.
Reminder that BoTW and ToTK both sold more than twice of OoT. BoTW and ToTK Switch 2 editions topped 2025 sales charts. The on-going juggernaut success of BoTW has been the biggest, prolonged assfucking snoys and OoT cucks have ever recieved.I'm happy to be alive to see it all unfold in real time
>>739068096>more than twice of
It makes no sense how he wanted Aonuma to stay in Zelda and Koizumi to be promoted out of it, other than his seething hatred for story I guess.
>>739065226>>739065304>>739067692>t.
>>739068130Your point being?
>>739068096Sad that the Minish Cap is so underrated
>>739063261Ounuma seems like a talented person but Miyamoto's Zeldas are the best. Ounuma is a GREAT director but always clash with Miyamoto's vision. Sad though that Miyamoto is too old since 20 years ago and that thing is over.
>>739068096>At least 60% of current self-proclaimed Zelda fans are posersThanks for confirming that.
Why does this man make Snoys seethe into a boiling rage?
>>739063261>Aonuma tried to get out, but Miyamoto pulled him back inIt is interesting to note in the full article that Aonuma was credited as a director, but was basically positioned as a producer-in-training, with him earning the title proper the following year on Phantom Hourglass.
>>739068096>salesalesales
>>739068319>posersAh yes, unlike you, the "real" Zelda fans that devolved into NDS-ridden snoys that hate Nintendo.
nubi
>>739065792WW was Aonuma's baby. He was assigned to TP. SS onwards is more Fujibayashi's vision than Aonuma's.
>>739068323I dunno about snoys, but he definitely makes actual Nintendo fans sad with how many games he's been allowed to fuck up.
>>739063261The reason why Snoys love the "OoT formula" so much and hate BoTW is because they love linearity and despise freedom. They like OoT for things like auto-jumping and story focus over actual freedom and gameplay. This becomes painfully obvious with the way they seethe at BoTW.
What I'm getting from this is that Miyamoto is a great game designer but a mediocre executive. Many such cases.
>>739068415Real Zelda fans don't like to see shitty open world gameplay from another series pasted over Zelda even if it sells well to normalfags.
>>739068489>actual Nintendo fansNo?
>>739068096>By porting Skyward Shit to Switch we managed to make it sell more than links crossbow training Well done! One must wonder why they didn't port links crossbow training>b-because of the controls!
>>739068530I dislike BotW because "freedom" in the form of having every tool from the start of the game is a fundamental misunderstanding of what I want. Imagine starting Super Metroid with every upgrade. Sure, you could then effortlessly do every boss in any order you want, but there's barely any game left aside from picking your boss order.
>>739068530>OoT for things like auto-jumpingALttP did it first,>and story focusWhat story? Grab the shiny things, also Ganondorf was a shitty dude I guess? Story, as in "lore" wasn't a major focus of the series until it started creeping in with WW's post-apocalyptic stuff.
And? Gamers play games. Devs and other artists make games. Whats the fucking problem
>>739068048>wants to keep their shit games exclusive This is a good thing, though. Being "jewish" in this context would be to alienate the Nintendo fanbase, and whore out the franchises by releasing Nintendo game on every platform, like Xbox and Playstation did.
>>739063261Man I am glad Star Fox flopped and no one cares. They have the right mindset to just keep remaking Star Fox 64 a hundred times because its actually good. If it was popular, they'd put open world crafting bs in that too. It would be like Starfield or something
>>739068591If you think Aonuma Zelda is even remotely acceptable then you do not actually enjoy Zelda. Hope that clears it up.>b-butMajora's Mask is the best game in the franchise. It's the one Aonuma hates the most. Do the math.
>>739068319what I find funny is that, after being put on the eshop, FRLG sold an additional 4 million units becoming the best selling pokemon remakes, so it's not so much a matter of quality but rather availability, if old zelda games like OoT, WW, TP and MM were put up on the eshop they could easily add another million each to their sales
>>739068915>prefer old Nintendo to current Nintendo>this means you are a snoyMake it make sense
>>739068915It's big news regardless of who made it, the plot has thickened between Miyamoto and Aonuma.
OoTfags have such severe Nintendo Derangement Syndrome, it's insane.
>>739068530That makes no sense. Isn't the Genshin Impact base primarily on Playstation?
>>739063261>there exists a world where Aonuma was brought over to work on Mario with Miyamoto and Koizumi was left in charge of ZeldaI don't belong here. Fuck this gay earth.
>>739068715I typically disagree with the "exclusives are... le bad and jewish!" sentiment but there's no harm in nintendo porting over their shittier games like sunshine, other m, skyward sword, outdated spinoffs like ultra smash or super mario kart, titles that aren't system sellers like advance wars or forgotten NES games like clu clu land.
>>739069117>you like one of Nintendo's best games? Why are you so deranged and hateful of Nintendo?
>>739069159Its okay. As soon as the Zelda movie makes 10 billion dollars at the box office, Aonuma and Koizumi will be out of a job. Miyamoto doesn't need video games anymore
I hate botw because it led to the rise of genshin and chink gachashit.
>>739069159>there exists a world where the new Zelda was a flop instead of a major commercial successOkay.
>>739069251They're going to Zelda CDI that sony movie and anyone with a brain knows it.
>>739069159wonder if tanabe and aonuma would have butted heads over paper mario
>>739069320Why in the world would sales matter to me? I want good Zelda games, not good selling Zelda games.
>>739069292>botw was a cancer to the entire industrywe knew this already
>>739069336>Tanabe is Tanabe>Aonuma doesn't like MM, probably the best work with NPCs that he is personally responsible forWhoever wins, we lose.
>>739068264They're leased it at the worst possible time. They released it in japan in a month or so before the DS and PSP were coming out and nobody cared about GBA anymore and in the US it came out after the DS and around the launch of the PSP they should have released it in early 04 before both consoles were even announced
>>739063598Based if true
>>739069386Why would a snoy like a non-Sony console exactly?
>>739069487Why do I care about the company's success if it comes at the cost of the design I play their games for? Normalfags have no taste, pandering to them isn't good.
>>739069462Contrarianism in attempt to discredit newer Nintendo releases. They do the same thing with garbage like Melee.
>>739069386>It's so much better that..they're going to remake it like they're doing with starfox 64>and prime 4 was going to be so much better, which is why they remastered prime 1 before it came out
>>739069208Once you establish you're willing to port "some" games to other platforms, people stop treating your exclusives like they're actually exclusive. They'll just wait for the port to their preferred platform, even if it never comes.
>>739068174You'd have to be retarded to still be enjoying Zelda post n64. The series has been shit ever since.
>>739069539Wouldn't they just prefer to uplift their own old games? Sony wasn't always bereft of decent titles, if it were really Sony shilling they'd be pulling out some old ratchet & clank or crash or Spyro or something, not ocarina of time.
>>739069539>in attempt to discredit newer Nintendo releasesI don't think I can do a better job than Nintendo at that.
>>739069534>>739069574>>739069383I'm looking forward to your seething in the next Famitsu thread.
>>739068048Exclusive nintendo games = the whole reason that people consoom their consoles + why they can afford to not directly compete in the graphics arms race. It's not rocket science.
>>739069667I haven't bought or associated myself with a nintendo product in 15 years for my own legal benefit.
>>739069667I have never gone into a Famitsu thread and never intend to.
>>739063261how come there's people that gets paid to sandropost???
Botw directly led to sony getting unlimited money because of genshin copying that and giving sony 30% of the literal billions they make. tendies ruined themselves
>>739067989More likely Miyamoto was purely thinking along the lines of, "These people know how to construct the games because their careers grew up with them, and they won't have enough of a leash to go crazy." And he was right. It's taken decades for them to finally start to obviously have been subversive and harmful with the IPs they were assigned.Same thing would have happened with FF if Sakaguchi had moved up in Square instead of leaving. Nomura et al would have created a few entries more in line with Sakaguchi's style, but over time we still would have wound up with a FFXIII and FFXV, it just would have taken a bit longer.That is probably why Kojima, ultimately, was never able to give up MGS despite the fact he clearly wanted to. He knew whoever he handed it off to would end up making it something fundamentally different even if he was there to keep them in line.The truth is if an IP/franchise is too dependent on a singular vision, then once the creator and original vision behind an IP is ready to move on, the companies have to have the fortitude to let the IP die, or at least rest for a time until someone who genuinely wants to continue it comes along, and let the other visionaries in the company do their own thing.
>>739063261He's been pretty outspoken about the fact that he low-key regrets Twilight Princess, didn't like being a public facing director on it, and that he had started getting tired of Zelda around that time. It's why they just haven't been that good ever since, and why they found another person to be director, while Aonuma took on a more manager role as producer.
>>739064279He's a very typical boss guy, that people groan when he arrives, and he comes in with bullshit suggestions that lack respect or awareness for what anyone's currently struggling with. They were slaving away in the latter half of OoT production when he told them they needed to make signs able to be cut into pieces because he tested it and really wanted to cut them. And he told them to stop making mechanics that are complicated, and then he made the Horse Stamina system himself.
>>739070053Sure.>https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/02/eiji_aonuma_lists_his_top_three_favorite_zelda_games>At number three, Aonuma named The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, which he said made the list because he "wanted to make something better than Ocarina."
>>739063261>thought I had done almost everything I could," he said. "So I told Mr Miyamoto: 'Look, I have already done that and I have already done this, there seems to be few more things that I could do with Zelda. So can I graduate from it?' And Mr. Miyamoto said: 'OK!' So I took his word, but the next assignment he gave me was: 'You are going to take care of this new Zelda game.' I said: 'Wait a minute! I thought that you gave me permission to work on some other projects.'">>"So, yeah, somewhere in my mind I really want to take some distance away from it, but the fact of the matter is I am more and more involved in The Legend Of Zelda, and sometimes I think it is a kind of... fate for me, so I should give up escaping from that!”
>>739070178Eternal reminder that TP's intro was one third of its current length and Miyamoto demanded they make it the length it is today.
>>739069695The graphics arms race exists entirely because 7th gen consoles started aping PC control schemes, which included more dynamic cameras, which in turn exiled them from cheap, quick and dirty graphical effects, since those all break down at certain camera angles.The arms race is effectively over now, everything looks like shit, who cares?
>>739070374Oh I love the intro, unpopular af opinion I know. Based Miyamoto
>>739069418Aonuma's main involvement of MM was the dungeons. Koizumi came up with all the ideas for the main story and side plots and wrote the script alongside Takano.
>>739070519>Aonuma went from OOT to MM dungeons in one game>then went back to WW dungeons immediately afterI want his brain to be studied after he dies.
>>739070374I like the duration of the intro in every single Zelda game so I won't put that on him. Every game takes as long or as little time as it needed to set the proper tone, and to contrast the tranquility with the madness effectively.
Why do japanese men pride themselves on being turbo-cucks. Was Itagaki the only straight man in japan?
>>739063261no wonder the games ended up getting so rote, Aonuma was stuck in the zelda mines and was just going through the motions
>>739070590That one's also Miyamoto. It's always Miyamoto.
>>739070519No, Aonuma was the director for the first time on MM, and the reason why a lot of the legacy talent started quitting the Zelda team, because he was so inexperienced and so short on time he made a lot of developers miserable in order to produce and ship the game on time. But yeah he probably left the story mostly to Koizumi, and the game's script was written by a third guy.
>>739070590>>739070718There was more need for OoT to be better
>>739070683Who else's genes could survive in a society where you allowed to be ruthlessly cut down in the street by a social superior for expressing any sense of dignity whatsoever?
>>739070821I fucking love this "We're rivals, but we own the publishing arm they depend on too"Really fair play, Miyamoto.
In this interview the interviewer has them guess what their favorite Zelda game is, Aonuma guesses Majora's Mask for Koizumi and Koizumi guesses Breath of the Wild for Aonuma. When they reveal the answers they are reversed, but it's a psychological thing where they really are answering for the other person because in Asian culture you need to be polite and modest as possible. Ultimately it reveals which games they feel most proud to have donehttps://youtu.be/9tuCpcjbKxk?si=eGNhekCSBS2ecyjE
>>739067918based
>>739064279Weird how Miyamoto loves Mario and Pikmin sequels, but absolutely hates Zelda and Star Fox sequels.
>>739071098barrier
>>739063261>"he" tried to "graduate" but was "trapped" and "should give up" escaping "his" "fate"
>>739069942>He knew whoever he handed it off to would end up making it something fundamentally different even if he was there to keep them in line.you act like he himself didn't do exactly that with MGSV
>>739071106He doesn't feel that a Mario sequel has any chance of dethroning the Mario he's responsible for.F-Zero is in the dumpster because the Sega one dethroned the Nintendo one.Star Fox as anything but Star Fox 64 is in the dumpster because he found Dinosaur Planet vs. Star Fox Adventures to be too close of a call.
>>739068489I hate everyone at Nintendo now. they clearly don't give a fuck about their IPs anymore and let retards fuck with their identity, canon and legacy. if I had stopped playing once gen 6 died I wouldn't have missed anything important, modern gaming is fucking dreadful
>>739068549He killed the Twilight Princess sequel in favor of Link’s Crossbow Training.
>>739071273Seeing as how Aonuma hated Zelda and he already copied OOT in TP, what was he gonna do with the sequel? copy MM?
>>739069039He was unironically calling GameCubefags “snoys” while simultaneously praising the PS2 earlier today.
>>739071215That fucker had Rare destroy an IP that was going to compete with Zelda and then begged Namco to make it the coolest starfox yet before they were even done with his adventure furshit. Were it not for his stupid bullshit they would have made more games for the N64 than Nintendo themselves.
It's so funny how mad these two make /v/.
>>739071363>while simultaneously praising the PS2 earlierNo? Both of those are snoyshit.
>>739071306love threads when your retarded posts get mass deleted. get a life you stupid fuck
>>739071413It's funny how /v/ doesn't like retarded hacks being given power over things they don't understand, yes.>>739071421The gamecube will never be "snoy" anything you schizo faggot.
>>739069323It reminds me of how Akira Toriyama came out of retirement to butcher Dragon Ball’s corpse out of spite because he watched Dragon Ball Evolution.
>>739070207This nigga has no respect for traditional Zelda, probably because Koizumi also did a lot of contribution to that game as well
>>739071797will never understand why they don't replace fags like him and let people with passion and respect for their IPs work on them. reminds me of Capcom talking shit about their own legacy
>one guy gets banned>thread slows to like half speed, 0 unironic mentions of "snoys"I wonder if he realizes nobody agrees with him.
>>739069418>Imamura created Tingle as a silly character to help lighten the somber tone of MM>Aonuma makes him a prominent character in WW>he was hated so much that Tingle hasn’t appeared again outside of Japan-only DS spin-offs and the occasional easter egg
>>739071880Ego. People who like the IP might outdo the mummified executives that take credit for its original success.
>>739071797gee I dunno, maybe because he's worked on the two most successful Zelda games yet
>>739072004didn't last long, the faggot is back
>>739072004If your respect for a game depends on how much it sells then your opinions are worthless. Sales never correlate to quality, it's a miracle when a good thing sells more than some mass marketed slop.
>>739071896convinced it's just an AI bot training itself on here, like every single thead's resident autist.
>>739070178His obsession with the hotse is what led to Hyrule Field being devoid of features.
>>739071898>Aonuma makes him a prominent character in WWReally should've paid a one-time fee to teach Link how to read ancient maps on his own. It would flow better AND it would be based as hell.
>>739071542He does this only with Starfox. Zelda...Zelda hasn't really been "his" the same way Mario hasn't really been "his" for some time now. Those are Nintendo's cash cows with outher people at the head of the hydra. With Starfox he sews the puppets back together after the last arwing crash, each iteration looking more Frankenstein than the last. He just cannot give it up and I can't be assed to know why.The Zelda movie just doesn't add up to me that they would even allow Sony to touch it. They have a notorious history with just up and canning shit like this which is why I mentioned Zelda CDI. It would be hilarious if the licensing agreement actually let them use it like the CDI games even if Nintendo backs out and we still get some future blueray quality YTP material out of it.
>>739072069Good thing the games are gret then.
>>739071385miyamoto is fucking poison. so StarFox gets it's fifth remake while F-Zero gets shit just because the nigger can't think of a stupid gimmick for a new game?
>>739063261>"You want to stop working on new cash cows? Denied. Now go back to the gold mines."
>>739072234good gamesell goodso gret
>>739072234But the best selling Zeldas are some of the shittiest ones since Skyward Sword.
>>739072187>The Zelda movie just doesn't add up to me that they would even allow Sony to touch it.miyamoto doesn't really care about the quality of the work, just that he can release an 2 hour long advert for his games on the big screen.
>>739072327>Wind Waker>cash cowoh no no no no no
>>739072103It's just a autist who shit up any discussion on anything her doesn't like
>>739072414>"new poster" enters the thread rabidly defending Nintendo's current leadership and status quo and screaming about how everything else, even past Nintendo, is "snoys">gets banned>no other posters continue making these arguments until another "new" poster shows up... and gets banned in another few minutes>NOOOO I'M NOT ONE PERSON NOOOOO STOP IDENTIFYING MEEE
>>739072431I could believe that if this wasn't a board wide phenomenon that happens 24/7, but every thread on here having one of these bozos at all times? It's gotta be an AI getting trained on shitposts, which is why all of it's shitposts are dogshit because it's a soulless robot
>>739072431>>739072542this. there's weirdos who latch onto boards and games/stuff. like how /co/ has a Brazilian Gwenschizo or the local fag who constantly makes anti metroid prime threads.
>>739072964hello snoy spammer
>>739072964you are so bad at this, a child playing hide and seek standing behind some curtains with their feet sticking out is a more impressive smokescreen. I look for the eventual >[Deleted]being added to this dogshit post
>>739072964>NDS>Nintendo Derangement System
>>739063261>aonuma wanted to quit zelda>we could've been free>we could've had someone who actually wants to make zelda games take the reins>miyamoto personally fucked it all upIt always leads back to Miyamoto. Why does it always lead back to Miyamoto. Why has this old man devoted so much time and spite to undermining Zelda.
>>739072103An AI feels more likely to me than it being someone who really hates it when people dislike things they like (and vice-versa). I don't care how stupid or delusional a shitposter is, at some point you have to realize you're the only one keeping these threads alive. It's a self-defeating exercise.
>>739072964Most posts that support Famitsu are from one person.Most posts that talk about shit like "nds" and "ootsnoys" are one person.
>>739073197>he thinks I bought a passthe day I this shithole money is the day I'm swinging from my ceiling fan
>>739063261isn't that exactly what happened to the Final Fantasy creator? Must be a Japanese thing.
>>739073281Okay poorfag
>>739071106There are no Star Fox sequels. Just Star Fox 64 retold forever. Oh and someone shoved Dinosaur Planet in there awkwardly.
>>739073359>what do you mean most people don't associate enjoyment of an old Nintendo game with Sony shilling?>you're delusional!lmao
>>739064279You're free to criticize Miyamoto all you want but he is no joke the most talented game designer to ever live. The "Fuck miyamoto" trend is absolutely cringe, and I say this not even being a tendie myself. You want so bad to pretend miyamoto isn't talented because he's an asshole, but he really is that gifted
Isn't it funny how:>Aonuma and Koizumi both made beach themed games after they parted ways>Koizumi's serious toned writing comes off as off-putting in Sunshine and Aonuma's goofy writing makes Wind Waker feel like a parody of Zelda
>>739072121>Tingle teaches Old Hylian to Link and THAT'S why he can understand the Deku Tree/Jabun in Second Quest>also letting the player skip the need to pay to decipher charts in SQ altogetherOh my god this would've been amazing and actually made sense.
>>739073792>the most talented game designer to ever liveOne of the most accomplished, inarguably. He's a man of his lane though, you're not gonna get some massive RPG out of the dude because mechanics-driven simplicity is more his game. He doesn't do EVERYTHING, but he knows what he does well and for better or worse his philosophies tend to be on the wiser end of the spectrum. Not so great when it comes to colliding with others' creative visions, but he can definitely fix lacking ones too (Metroid Prime being a key example).
>>739063261Aonuma deliberately tried to sabotage the Zelda franchise with Wind Waker so he could get moved to other projects, so being forced to stay on the Zelda team is a fitting punishment.
>>739074115Wind Waker is a skip and a hop away from brilliance in so many areas but misses the mark almost every time.
>>739068096Thanks for confirming that Jewtendo ruined Zelda to cater to chinks who couldn’t own N64s in the 90’s.
>>739067936Holy shit, Midna and the Twilight Realm were in OOT?
>>739073792He's got talent, but in an executive position he lets his ego make retarded decisions that he would never as a game designer. F-Zero isn't dead due to any failure of its own, it's dead because Sega is responsible for the best one and he's jealous. Rosalina had less lines than Fox in the Super Mario Galaxy movie because Miyamoto is still sore over Rosalina's popularity coming from a type of design he would never personally make.
>>739074973He kinda stole that from alttp and Midnah is just a larger fairy with no wings
Every single candidate you might want to replace Aonuma already has other commitments. Koizumi is NEVER going to be Zelda's producer, he's got too much seniority and is in charge of the more important IP.
>>739075227He was put in charge of Mario because Miyamoto wanted to keep a closer eye on the one who was more willing to challenge him. Miyamoto objected to the way Koizumi influenced titles like LA and MM, even though the fans loved it.
>>739075025You could definitely frame it that way.Personally I believe it's like a Walt Disney / Steve Jobs thing (since Nintendo has strong similarities to Disney and Apple). The reason Disney has lost its identity so hard over the past couple decades is that no one person really knows that the philosophy or core of Disney is supposed to be, because they realized they could appeal way harder to more demographics if they create little token characters like Moana and whatever. So the danger to pandering to what Nintendo fans ask for is now there's no central creative mind at Nintendo whose vision we can rely on. And once we can tell that Nintendo stuff isn't coming from someone's creative vision, but only giving the fans what they want, then they'll just turn into Disney and we won't really care about their stuff anymore.
>>739063261Translation: my baby nearly killed the franchise and I tried desperately to get away from it but Miyamoto dragged me back in and told me to fix my mess.
>>739076582Yes, which is why you graduate the guy who made a mess to producer status. Granted, in its own way that's condemning him to a certain hell so maybe that did work.
>>739063261No wonder Twilight Princess was dogshit
>>739065226Are you a retarded nigger than can't read? Twilight Princess was the game that ruined him going by that article
>>739063261god damn Wind Waker was ASS
>>739073792he is the spitting example of a hero dragging you kicking and screaming to where you will enjoy being
>>739063261>mindbroke Aonuma beyond repairI love Twilight Princess now
>>739073792I don't know where I'd be with Miyamoto and his games, not here that's for sure
>>739069208hahahahahaha holy fuck lmaooo
>>739068530Yeah you seemed like a Konata poster.
>>739063261So that's why Twilight Princess is so soulless.
>>739076845>Yes, which is why you graduate the guy who made a mess to producer status.MM got him there, not WW or TP.
>>739067692It's absolutely amazing how Aonuma and Tanabe never get the proper blame for the shit they've done because you niggers would rather screeching about Miyamoto.
>>739077053Can YOU read you retarded monkey? That anon didn't mention anything about Aonumale being ruined you retarded shit eater.
>>739077338Aonuma got carried by koizumi with Majora's Mask. You can tell because both WW and TP are shitty games compared to the N64 ones
>>739071215>F-Zero is in the dumpster because the Sega one dethroned the Nintendo one.GX was literally the second worst selling F-Zero game of all time.
>>739063347Using slop twice in a row in a sentence gives you an imp cock penalty.
>>739077426Didn't stop him from getting the recognition that he rides on to this day, solidifying him as "the Zelda guy".
>>739077384>that anon>trying to defend your own stupidityLearn to read disgusting fag. BotW has nothing to do since it came like 12 years later
>>739077426>>739077639Aonuma became "the Zelda guy" because the one most qualified to take that title was forbidden from doing so.
>>739077376>and TanabeI'm not a PMfag but I'm pretty sure they've been vocal about his influence on that series.
>>739063261>admits to twilight princess basically being shitTP fags in ruins
>>739077930No he didn't.
>>739063261It kills me, because Miyamoto and Koizumi should have been the ones continuing to develop Zelda. Miyamoto should have kept directing Mario, Zelda and Star Fox instead of handing them to shitty directors.
>>739063261He was pissed off because Wind Waker was rushed. It was his passion project and Nintendo forced him to release the game in an incomplete state. Then we get a soulless piece of shit like twilight princess as revenge
>>739078106WW was dogshit at the conceptual level, finished or not. Same with TP.
>>739078182As someone who dies on the hill of TP not just being better than WW, but being a top tier Zelda, WW is absolutely a better concept than TP. It got fucked sideways by several cat dicks in development, that's the actual problem with that game.
>>739076582>so you thought it was funny to go behind my back and put in that art style that I disapproved of>well here's a funny joke for you: you're here forever
>>739077487you've been spending too much time in salesfag threads
>>739078106And then we got Skyward Sword which actively shits on everything preceding it in favor of MUH HYLIA MUH DEMON KINGThen we got BOTW which does basically nothing except continue to push Skyward Sword while reducing everything else to "well it all kind of happened eventually ;) "And then we got TOTK which did nothing but push Skyward Sword onto Ganondorf specifically.Skyward Sword is still the worst Zelda game, btw. Fujibayashi deserves to be flayed alive for forcing his fanfiction and OCs into the series for a decade now.
>>739077376I mean yeah he obviously fucked up but when its revealed that the guy was begging to work on something else because he exhausted everything he couldve done with the series its not a surprise that the result wasnt great.
>>739078106Wind Waker had everything it needed to be good already, it was put together poorly like Prime 4.>shrink the world down>move the islands closer together in clusters>dive down into corral reefs that are locations in old Hyrule>have return trips to tower of the gods>have 20 shards of triforce to locate from the beginning of the gameYou don't really need more time to make Wind Waker good, they just made it bad on purpose is all.
>>739063261oh no miyamoto put aonuma in charge of a trillion dollar game series, giving him full creative control and an insanely high salary.Aonuma then went on to make some of the most beloved and critically acclaimed games of all time that sold millions of copies each.What a monster i wish he would die.
>>739068273>Miyamoto's Zeldas are the best.He didn't direct any.Zelda 1, 3 and Links Awakening were all Takashi Tezuka.Miyamoto came up with the premise for 1, that's it. In a meeting he said "i used to play in caves as a child lets make a game about that".Tezuka then designed and directed it.
>>739079305>sales sales sales sales salesthe PS2 broke you in a deeply traumatizing way that you will never recover from
>>739073792He's too old and stubborn now, he squanders his talent and forgot that other people had good ideas too when he was young.
>>739067918>No, it's everyone else that is the problem!How about tendies fuck off to /vp/ or something.
>>739078304WW in a vacuum isn’t a terrible game, but at the time it was seen as a giant middle finger to the fans who wanted a proper OoT sequel on GameCube. Instead we got some cartoon shit that looked like a joke, and the premise of the game itself took a huge shit all over the OoT continuity by opening with “somehow Ganondorf returned” and flooding Hyrule. Basically Aonuma told the players that everything they did in OoT counted for nothing since Hyrule got destroyed anyway. It’s like he was saying, “Oh you liked OoT? Well WW is the sequel, so that means you should care about the WW continuity now.” TP was made as an attempt at course correction.
>>739078304WW's graphics are in part due to the need to rush development and reuse N64 assets (from the cancelled OoT wind temple for example) and ultimately it's for the best that its planned content was put to use in later more polished games (TP, PH) but it's exactly the kind of game that would benefit from a reimagining on the scope that Alttp/OoS was to LoZ1, or LA/OoT/FSA/Albw was to Alttp.Aonuma was definitely developing it with sentiments like the "need to let go of the past" and FSA had traces in the game disc of a cancelled Marvelous game (his debut) that was reskinned as Navi Trackers then carved off the NA release as a standalone release that ended up cancelled.TP's earlier concept wasn't much more than an OoT retread (even a very similar Kakariko village in trailers) and then some heavy LotR inspirations (the boboklin army scenes cut from the game) that was very downscaled in the final TP, and it's unsurprising that the team wanted to do more with Crossbow Training to make use of that content. (SS was worth it though, despite its flaws)
>>739073792Its easy to forget that when he basically just worked on pikmin for 20 years but you are right. When everyone else was fumbling around trying figure out what video game should be, he created games that would be the framework and gold standard of genres. When everyone didn't know what to do with 3d he figured it and once again set a new standard. Despite what some naughty dog devs said, most were embaressed by crash which is why they sold him and made Jak. The head of Rockstar said modern games owes its existence to Mario64 and OoT.Now to to say people haven't made better then he has or that he hasn't made a bad game(SFZero) but still you have to appreciate what he accomplished.
>>739078542But that's nothing newLink's Awakening was originally a sequel for Alttp, then it was BS Zelda Ancient Stone Tablets, then the Oracle games would have been set after Alttp, then Four Swords Adventures was meant to be a sequel, then A Link Between Worlds, then fucking Triforce Heroes was grafted on the Alttp sequel timelineIt's retcon after retcon in favor of whatever is the latest releaseToTK barely acknowledged BoTW and was full of plotholes, some addressed in interviews, some in poorly written non canon Hyrule Warriors spinoffs, some of that would be then now canon as Voice Notes in the Switch 2 edition...Alttp aside (whose story structure was retreaded constantly from OoT onwards) the two most interesting plots in the franchise (LA and Majora's Mask, both fever dreams) are treated constantly like old shames and the Mario Galaxy movie should give an idea about corporate Nintendo's narrative priorities
>>739077778I miss him.
>>739063261Expecting to "graduate" from one of the highest prestige series in the company by delivering one of its worst entries that helped bury the console it was on. That's Aonuma reasoning alright.
>>739081316>delivering one of its worst entries that helped bury the console it was onMaybe if the game had more than (debatably) 2 years to be made.
the fact that people complained about the artstyle of wind waker of all things just proves how absolutely retarded and bonged people were in the early to mid 2000s. thank fucking christ things are different now
>>739081474Yeah? You riked Twilight Princess? Skyward Sword?
>>739081743"Absolutely" and "more than Wind Waker", respectively.
>>739068096>more than twice oflol you can't speak english
>>739068096>The on-going juggernaut success of BoTW has been the biggest, prolonged assfucking snoys and OoT cucks have ever recieved.All this chart shows is that the Switch sells, not the games. BotW did abysmal on the Wii U so maybe you're just fucking retarded and can't read your own graph or you're just an ironic troll that's trying to bait BotWfags.
>>739068096Which of these are worth playing?
>>739083263pretty much none of them, ocarina of time, wind waker and twilight princess are all reskins of the same game just pick one and you've experienced early 3d zelda, BOTW is good. From the 2d era minish cap is probably the best one, the rest are riding heavily on nostalgia.
>>739083536>BOTW is good.wrong
>>739083263Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask
>>739082184>>739082685>>739083263>>739083536>>739083632Phew, good save, the engagement farming got a little sparse there.>n-not all me totally!You're contributing to it, that means you should be killed.
>>739083536>BOTW is good. From the 2d era minish cap is probably the best oneGood fucking lord.
>>739083632Contrarian with nostalgia dementia. BOTW is genuinely one of the best games ever made and you don't need to be a Nintendo man child to appreciate it. TOTK is dogshit though.
not many places higher to graduate to in games than head director of fucking zelda
>>739083692End your life moron. Next time read your own graph before posting it. No, scratch that. Just end your life.
>>739083263Nothing made after Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages is really worth it. The two GameCube games were both mediocre follow-ups to OoT attempting to ride on its coattails. Skyward Sword is an OoT prequel that should’ve never been made.
>>739083761> BOTW is genuinely one of the best games ever madelmao
>>739083536impressively garbage post.
>>739083815AIEEEE MY 30 year old stale as fuck DUNGEONSSS
>>739083780>the time portal in SS I can't unsee it...
>>739083843you are right an empty field with nothing in it is just so much better.
>>739083870yes, one of the best exploration playgrounds of all time was actually completely empty. The game was actually the worst game ever made because there weren't any dungeons with puzzles for 7 year olds. >nothing can ever change without it being terribleautism is a disease.
>>739084027>empty field>exploration?
>>739083707you really think ALTTP is a good game outside your self obsessed memories of being a 10 year old? you should learn to separate actual quality from wishing you were a child again. links awakening was shit too, the remake was even worse.
>>739064279warch sakurais game design video series and him selfreporting the minor shit he got on devs for. a single discolored pixel made him micromanage
>>739084073The billions of landmarks, towns and secrets in that game wash away like water but you think link exiting a 100 pixel house with rain falling is the most memorable thing that ever happened to you. Then you're autistic enough to recommend that crusty shit because you're so narcissistic you think anyone new to the series would share that opinion in 2026
>>739083780The past timeline makes no sense since Ganondorf exists in it as well as Demise's malice.
>>739078520>Hey, you're posting facts in this shitposting thread, cut it out!
>>739079361He's got to be in the running for best videogame director ever, right?
>>739084615it is kinda crazy that the intro of alttp is better than anything in botw desu.
>you will never live in the timeline where Koizumi was given direct control of the series
>>739084986The fact that you cannot recognise that opinion as pure melt brain nostalgia is what makes your opinion on games so worthless and why all your recommendations are shit.everything about old zelda boils down to >i was 10 and uhh i was 10 and i uhh was 10 when i played itnobody cares.
>>739085249you're mentally ill and boring, don't talk to me.
>>739085042I'm assuming it's the same timeline where Gunpei Yokoi doesn't get hit by a car.
>>739063261black company
>>739084618The original Princess Zelda who’s under the sleeping curse in Zelda 2 also presumably still exists in all the other timelines (or at least in the ‘future’ timeline after SS).
>>739085348>timeline where other m and prime 4 don't happen and kid icarus doesn't become weebslop
>>739085531>has a bone to pick with fucking UprisingPeople will whine about anything, that game was excellent.
>>739085586True. Pit was cute as fuck too.
>>739085519Stop making timelines. They're pantsu on head retarded.
>>739085348>timeline where Wario isn't solely relegated to microgamesI want to believe...
>>739084904you tried to dispute that Miyamoto had hangups against F-Zero GX because LE SALES LE SALES LE SALES you stupid faggot.
>>739085131dont you have some koroks to pick up
>>739087098No, he only does that when he "wants" to. This is how REVOLUTIONARY FREEDOM BASED GAME DESIGN works. Things are better because you picked when to do them, and nothing else.
>>739063261I heard even his own DNA merged with the franchise
How did it all go so wrong?
>>739063261Didn't he say Echoes of Wisdom's plot was basically bullshitted up by him, writing on a napkin in his hotel, after the devs apparently couldn't figure out what to do?
>>739092863All I know is Aonuma told them to scrap playable Link and made Zelda the main character, but still kept the Link mode in anyway.
>>739068048You WILL NEVER buy Nintendo games on your shitty plastic third-party box.
>>739093040Dude's apparently "least favorite Zelda games" are my favorites. Majora and TP. He's always talking about how he either didn't want to work on them, or hate working on them or their development... The guy doesn't seem to understand what people liked about them.
>>739074973TP fags hate when you point out the game is a paint by the numbers OOT clone
>>739092863The more I learn about Aonuma's """""""writing"""""" process the more I'm convinced he was always bullshitting it.>Wind Waker's ending came from Koizumi>Was already checked out with Twilight Princess so just copy and pasted OoT's plot>Fujibayashi worked on Skyward Sword>Apparently Fujibayashi tried to show a rough draft of BoTW's plot and Aonuma didn't even look at it, he said it was "probably fine".>Totk was outsourced to Qualia Writer's Inc. For storyline and character scenarios, According to Qualia Writer Inc.'s own website and the special thanks credits in Totk with no writing director.
>>739063261Well it forced him to change Zelda's nature and that brought them a bunch of money
>>739093419It really isn't. I notice TP hating fags can never actually point out specific reasons why they think TP is an OOT clone, besides surface level things like Link riding a horse. I got news for you, Link rides a horse in BOTW. Link goes to a shitty water and fire dungeon in TOTK. Woah, they must be copying OOT.... retard shit.
>There's five (5) Zelda games with Toon LinkAonuma is dogshit. Fuck Miyamoto for keeping him on the series.
>>7390936727.>Four Swords>Wind Waker>Four Swords Adventures>Minish Cap>Phantom Hourglass (the only one that isn't a separate Toon Link btw)>Spirit Tracks>Tri Force Heroes
>>739093598>seething TP fagyou proved my point. TP is a soulless game that tires to be OOT without understanding why that game was good in the first place. It's a derivative Zelda game that they clearly did not want to make.
>>739093598They also tend to be the fags who believe that BotW is a Zelda 1-like, so they're absolutely gameplay-illiterate retards who aren't worth listening to.
I was surprised to see the tendie defence force arrived so quickly in this thread. We still haven't got the>it will never not be funny>post picture of sassy laughing black womanguy. That shows up when you say that Zelda Breath of the Wild is shit. Or equally with TOTK
>>739093672>>739093807Can't help but feel suspicious of anyone who says they're a toon link fan.
>>739073792Miyamoto is a retarded faggot that wouldn't have added jumping to the original Donkey Kong if Yokoi didn't tell him to.
>>739085348>>739085531>>739085735>>739094657I miss him.
>>739073792>You're free to criticize Miyamoto all you want but he is no joke the most talented game designer to ever live.Gunpei Yokoi was superior, and without him Nintendo would have never had success in the video game market. The whole business is riding on the foundation that Yokoi built.
Tendies keep spamming that BoTW is the goat but I play Genshin on PS5 which is pretty much the same thing except better in every way. Better combat, puzzles, 10x huge open world, great progression, lore and your fucking weapons don’t break. Nobody on the PS5 is waiting for more LoZ since we already have this.
>>739069424Minish cap was shit and so was Wind Waker
>>739097198obsessed metaposting lole
>>739068048holy fucking low iq
>>739093810https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm8ajwBGrYE
>>739079942>it's exactly the kind of game that would benefit from a reimagining on the scope that Alttp/OoS was to LoZ1, or LA/OoT/FSA/Albw was to Alttp>>739078851
the Zelda fanbase is rivaling the autism that is the Sonic fanbase, tbqh
>>739079689>>No, it's everyone else that is the problem!>How about tendies fuck off to /vp/ or something.This. They should just make a fucking Nintendo board already, and let the rest of us be free of these fucking manchildren.
>>739098005Not even fucking close. The Sonic fanbase has quieted down compared to, say, 10-15 years ago. But that shit is directly responsible for Chris-chan. That's a whole different league on that point alone.
>>739063261That would explain why the games lacked soul since then. It's being lead by a man who doesn't wanna be a part of it.
>>739064279He sounds completely insufferable. He was a legendary dev when Yamauchi didn't accept any bs, and when Iwata came around he's just been dinking around doing nothing.
>>739098183You know what they say about meeting your heroes.
Aonuma hasn't directed a Zelda game since Twilight Princess.This interview is from 2005.Am I supposed to be upset or something, I don't get it.
>>739068004By that logic, MCU fans are the real Marvel fans, and the ones who didn't care for those generic movies are the detractors.
>>739098212Iwata seems like he would've been fun to hang around with, but not as a boss.
>>739063261If only they had let the Majora's Mask guy handle Zelda instead
>>739068004Totk is my favorite Zelda but your argument is retarded
>>739068048You've had it explained to you a thousand times why Nintendo games are exclusive.
>>739064279daily reminder miyamoto:-cannot code or program-cannot operate a computer at all-cannot talk english after 40 years -cannot drive, yet is not allowed to use a bike or walk to work because "too valuable to the company"
>>739064279he also forcibly cancelled twilight princess 2, something I will never forgive him for
>>739098980Sounds like me, so he based
>>739068004>it sells so its a good producthello apple how is it going
>>739098980>cannot code or programpeople will believe this
>>739068004exactly, ootsnoys isn't made up, it's very real, these faggots think they're coy trying to leverage old games against the best new games
>>739079918ww has aged far better than tp graphically
>>739063261It's well known Aonuma wanted to make zelda like his own vision from the very start of him working on it. That's why with each game after ocarina they became more bastardized and didn't build off of ocarina, only copied and pasted its combat mechanics with slowly more bullcrap no one likes unrelated to combat tacked on.
>>739068004that was skyward sword actually
>>739093598>I notice TP hating fags can never actually point out specific reasons why they think TP is an OOT clone, besides surface level things like Link riding a horseThat's the whole problem, it's a clear *attempt* at an OoT clone that completely fails at actually replicating anything distinctly good about OoT, so all that remains are the paint by numbers elements without any creativity.
>>739073792He's just this guy, you know.He's made some good games, he's made some bad calls. He was clearly very instrumental in making Nintendo the company it is, but is not solely responsible for every good game they ever made.He probably should have retired after like the Wii, but people who think he's single-handedly throttling every Nintendo franchise have a derangement syndrome. Half of this is based on hearsay, like the idea that he forbids games from having storylines, or that he hated Rare's work.
>>739099197>graphicallyCool, now play WW for longer than an hour.
Reminds me of that time people thought Wizardry devs were geniuses but they actually just stole the game from someone else
>>739068530It's not worth responding to people who think OoT isn't an exceptionally freeform game.
>>739098980lmao is he a fucking sumo wrestler?
>>739099197>game that looked like shit on release somehow looks better now than game that looked good for the timeyeah, never buying into that shit, celdafag
>>739099257Explain how TP is better than OOT then. I can wait.
>>739098980Isn't Japan way easier to walk around in though? It's not like the US where you can walk for several miles with nothing in-between. Man I hate it here.
>>739099373WW always looked great.
>>739099341>it's freeform because you can do fire temple before forest templeI see
>>739099410It always looked like ass, everybody knew it at the time too. It's only cubekiddie revisionism because they didn't know any better, they cannot process their own nostalgia they have for a game that is shit at everything.
>>739098980And I'm supposed to care because?
>>739099045Retard, there was never Twilight Princess 2. Aonuma wanted to do Wind Waker 2, but Shiggy had to reign him in. Afterwards Shiggy wanted a small project with motion controls. He of course had to reign everybody in.
>>739093598It has like all of the same beats, except none of it is as well executed. >dude, it's the forest where you grew up. go to the big tree dungeon>dude, go to death mountain and help the gorons>dude, go to zora's domain and help the zoras>dude, go to the temple of time>dude, go and fight ganondorf in hyrule castleThey didn't have to follow the blueprint of OOT to that great of a degreeOn the downside, you lose the sense of growth or time passing that OOT had with the child portion of the game leading into the adult portion, and you lose out on Ganondorf as a villain who is built up over the course of the game, and Zelda as a character who actually does shit. So it's like a bad, hollow version of OOT.
>>739099479People were stupid in the early 00's, and didn't like games unless they were dark and moody and had dudes smoking cigarettes at night in the rain.
>>739099649The dungeons have a ludo narrative that mogs every dungeon of Oot. The forest temple has the plotline of rescuing the monkeys who help you traverse deeper within, then the monkey leader you saved tag teams the boss. Every dungeon is great like that, and has much better puzzle designs. The dungeons being based on elements isn't new and the same critique could be leveled at every entry. You're so off base about this "blueprint" because none of the dungeons have the same motif in theme or ludo narrative surrounding them let alone inside of them.I mean how far you have to stretch is absurd.>Zelda game is same as other one Zelda game because you help the different races outAbsolute moron.
>>739099745People are stupid right now, case and point is you. You like a dog ass game because you lack taste and standards.
>>739083780>Nothing made after Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of AgesThat's where classic Zelda proper ended. The subsequent games switched from having item gating and a strong focus on exploration to being almost completely event driven and linear, and barely resemble what they were before.The idea that all of Zelda prior to ALBW/BotW is 'classic Zelda' is a disgusting and false idea.
crazy how the snoy spammer got his shit deleted at least twice and the nigger keeps coming back. fucking autist.
>>739099782No other two games in the series are as samey as OOT and TP are.We'd just come out of MM and WW which had totally different worlds. It was disappointing playing TP, and so much of it was just a best of album of things from OOT>look, it's Lake Hylia. You can go fishing!Whatever, man. We've done this already.
>>739099745Edgy clause is a good thing though. Video games should have grown up with their target audience. Imagine how embarrassing it is playing a Mario game as a 40 year old man today where he's running around in some bing bong sunshine happy land
>>739099821Lttp onward had too much story focus.
>>739099397I said the exact opposite, you retard.
>>739099897distinctly less embarrassing than explaining to your normie friends that you played Sonic X Shadow Generations.
>>739099871You are a fucking retard.>PH is similar to WW>ALBW is similar to LTTP>Oracle is similar to LAI could keep going, you're just so god damn stupid.
>>739099928I would rather have fuck you Dante as a family member than any Nintendo character
>>739099913You're just wrong, there's no way for you to explain how TP is better than OOT. It's an impossible proposition because you're emphatically wrong.
>>739099649I feel like people who get stuck on this sort of thing can't see past the story checklisting and can't see how TP is very obviously different from OoT from a game design/structure standpoint. Look past the window dressing and you'll find that TP is MUCH more structurally beholden to its narrative, whereas OoT is much happier to give the player a grand objective and let them sort shit out on their own terms. I really don't see how people think these games remotely feel similar in their core progression.
>>739099942>insinuating I have any special love for PH or ALBWThe Oracle games are also set in totally new worlds, with new characters and villains. That's exactly what I want.
>>739099871TP and SS have more in common with each other than they do with OoT
>>739099986Dude is so retarded he missed the entire story of the game being its own thing, along with the mechanics it employs. It's a waste of time.
>>739099986okay, TP is different in ways that makes it worse.I also think the Wolf is unfun.
>>739099994and you're so fucking retarded you somehow miss the entirety of TP being differentiated, I guess Hyrule is just the same place in LTTP, OOT, TP, BOTW,
>>739100054You can think it's worse, whether it is or isn't isn't the point. The point is that they are verifiably not the same game.
>>739100076No, because when you met the Gorons, the Zoras, the Gerudos, and Ganondorf in OOT, you were seeing all of that stuff for the first time. That stuff isn't in ALTTP.
>>739099994>The Oracle games are also set in totally new worldsIt's insane how the series just dropped this.
>>739100107They're samey in bad ways, and different in bad ways.
>>739100150yeah. It's my least favorite thing about Zelda as a series post like Wind Waker. I like going to new places, and meeting new races of characters. I like it when the bad guy isn't Ganon.
Why do BOTW fans insist that linearity is bad? A little freedom is nice, but when a game does linear right, it can also be good. The Oracle Zelda games are linear, but they're also extremely high quality, considering the limitations of the gameboy color. Not to mention they have good worlds, decent combat, good puzzle solving, and they have great dungeons because they're all labyrinths that need you to constantly pay attention and keep notes on the internal workings of their dungeons and the respective "gimmick" of the Oracle game in question. For example, you may have to constantly see which season allows you to manipulate a path forward in Seasons, and in ages multiple dungeons require you to constantly go back and forth in time to figure out a way through. Best example of this is definitely the mermaid cave. Hell, i remember that cave far more than any modern """dungeons""" in nuzelda.
>>739073540hey now, Assault for all of its flaws was a proper Star Fox sequel. of course it wasn't made by Nintendo and has been buried and they refuse to acknowledge it, but still.
>>739063261Source https://www.gamesradar.com/games/the-legend-of-zelda/eiji-aonuma-tried-to-graduate-from-zelda-after-wind-waker-but-shigeru-miyamoto-assigned-him-to-twilight-princess-anyway-and-he-figured-he-should-give-up-escaping-his-fate/>At this point, Eiji Aonuma's name is just as synonymous with The Legend of Zelda as Shigeru Miyamoto – after all, he's now led the series just as long as the man who created it. But early in his tenure with the series, Aonuma actually wanted to move on to something entirely different. Until, that is, Miyamoto convinced him that making Zelda games was his inescapable fate.>"I had worked on three different Legends Of Zelda," Aonuma said in the June 2005 issue of Edge Magazine. Aonuma initially served as one of many directors on Ocarina of Time, and would take on more direct leadership roles for Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker.>"I thought I had done almost everything I could," he said. "So I told Mr Miyamoto: 'Look, I have already done that and I have already done this, there seems to be few more things that I could do with Zelda. So can I graduate from it?' And Mr. Miyamoto said: 'OK!' So I took his word, but the next assignment he gave me was: 'You are going to take care of this new Zelda game.' I said: 'Wait a minute! I thought that you gave me permission to work on some other projects.'">Aonuma recalled that Miyamoto told him he'd "be the producer, not the director, this time, and I really want you to take some distance away from the actual designing of the game but see things differently, so that you can see the whole process from a much higher-up position."
>>739099942how are ph and ww similar? not only are the controls and even the sailing different, but even the fucking structure and main villain. all they share is "sailing" and the same cast, structurally they're miles apart
>>739100372>That new Zelda would, of course, be Twilight Princess, which would be released for Wii and GameCube in 2006. Aonuma was ultimately still credited as director for this game, but it was nonetheless here that the guard truly changed.>"The fact of the matter is, I could not think about any concrete idea other than Zelda," Aonuma explained. Even the first title he directed, a Japan-only Super NES game called Marvelous, "shared some essence with Zelda," as he put it. "So, yeah, somewhere in my mind I really want to take some distance away from it, but the fact of the matter is I am more and more involved in The Legend Of Zelda, and sometimes I think it is a kind of... fate for me, so I should give up escaping from that!”>Clearly, Aonuma has very much given up on any thought of escaping from Zelda. He's served as producer on every major entry in the series since Phantom Hourglass in 2007, and is effectively now the face of the franchise. I'd offer up a Majora's Mask quote here, but I'm not sure leading one of the most beloved video game series of all time is such a terrible fate to be met with.And that's the entire article, a dig up of a 2005 issue of an interview from Edge Magazine.
>>739093335>>739093437this faggot ought to retire already, he already tainted Zelda for two decades. I will celebrate the day he's gone
>>739100430Anon, he's ruined it beyond repair just like Trump did with America. This is just what Zelda is now for both the consumers and devs. They really should've used an IP that didn't have its own proper identity like Kid Icarus.
>gamesradar
>>739100372>>739100412Scans of the original article OP's gamesradar post is quoting, because games journalism can now just be "I read a 20 year old magazine"
>>739100842
>>739100884
>>739099871BOTW and TOTK don't count because you say so? Retard
>>739100503worst part is seeing the tourists/locusts eating his slop and then turning around and saying the og stuff is somehow shit in comparison. bunch of niggers really are all updated at once with the same group think
>>739100921
>>739100957
>>739100989
>>739100205We legit went from half the series straight up having nothing to do with Hyrule, to not being allowed to leave.
>>739100947I noticed this ever since Switch made a bunch of normalfaggots jump on board. They just post sales charts and say "hurrr argument refuted!" like bro... if you're saying 90% of the franchise is shit because it "sold poorly" and all you care about is big number, you're just some filthy stockholder to me. You don't actually care about playing any of the games.
>>739101049>if you're saying 90% of the franchise is shit because it "sold poorly" and all you care about is big number, you're just some filthy stockholder to me.Hey, not true. They could be Eiji Aonuma who also now says the old games suck (but will happily sell you an outsourced farted out remaster).
>>739099871>No other two games in the series are as samey as OOT and TP are.lol what? ALBW and TOTK literally share the same maps as their predecessors, in fact TOTK is like 75% just literally the same game as BOTW. you can't be serious. I would even argue game pairs like the Oracles and the DS games are more similar than OOT/TP on account of having the exact same gameplay despite having different content. but TOTK has the exact same gameplay AND content as BOTW, it's the worst offender by far. I won't deny TP takes a lot of thematic cues from OOT, of course it does. but it ultimately goes about things in a very different way. they're not that similar beyond a very surface level, well there are other games in the series that are much more fundamentally similar.
I'm convinced people's hatred for BotW and TotK have been projected back onto earlier titles just because Aonuma worked on them. It all reads like people desperate to not give him any credit for anything he's ever done because they can't comprehend the possibility that someone can create works of varying levels of quality.
>>739101127Honestly I'm not mad at Aonuma since he wanted to move on to another project, I'm mad at Nintendo for keep him straddled to this and not having Koizumi being the designated Zelda guy.
>>739101237He was good at dungeons.He should've specialized.
>>739099871OOT and WW are as samey as OOT and TP are.
>>739101237No, I thought Aonuma had retarded ideas on the series before BotW, I just never expected him to fucking run the whole thing into the ground and now look back on his older decisions in an even less favorable light.
>>739099405>america is open world
>>739068004It "killed" the ootsnoy movie slop zelda and reincarnated it into liminal fortnite kino
>>739101237I always hated TP because of how dark and dingy it is, it's just a boring atmosphere. A game that is also centered around motion controls for the entire game is also ass. I did enjoy Wind Waker though. I also enjoyed the handheld Zeldas.
>>739101237To be honest, this gives us an opportunity to properly criticize the series as a whole, and the flaws present in BOTW and TOTK can be seen quite handily in previous games. For example, modern fans will talk indepth of how stupidly linear old Zelda games are, but they will jump to defend the obnoxious and terrible intros and tutorials, which have a billion invisible walls to prevent sequence breaking of any kind. Hell, the first 5 minutes of TOTK is literally just a long, unskippable hallway with exposition stapled onto it. The intro of Link to the Past is legitimately better and, dare I say, gives you the feeling of being open ended, even if most of the world is blocked off until you save Zelda. It gives you just enough to make the world seem mysterious and big.Infact you can time both of them side-by-side, and you'll escape hyrule Castle in LTTP before you even reach the tutorial sky island in TOTK.
>>739064279Yoshiaki Koizumi is probably the single most based Nintendo employee>Wrote the script to Link's Awakening>Director or co-director on Mario 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat>Personally animated Mario in SM64>Invented Z-targeting for Ocarina of Time, conceptualized Link's more handsome design and animated Link>Conceptualized the three-day cycle, Romani Ranch's scenario, and the Anju & Kafei quest for Majora's Mask>Snuck Rosalina's story into Super Mario GalaxyKoizumi is a brilliant and eccentric game designer like Miyamoto, but unlike Miyamoto he isn't scared of story, and his gimmicks have more depth than muh novel controls
>>739101395That's actually the perfect comparison.>Why do you want walkabkle cities and public transportation?? This is America!Gee I don't know... maybe because hours of doing nothing but driving from point A to point B is absolute shit! BotW is pretty much equivalent to that.
>>739101490>TF2 reaction image>harps on about how the flaw with the open world games is STILL NOT BEING FREE ENOUGHHi ACfag, just because you dislike the same game as the normal people in this one thread doesn't mean your overall opinions are less retarded.
>>739101554Seethe walkable city sissy
>>739101558>I'd like to be able to skip the tutorial in this open world game>HOW FUCKING DARE YOU?!It seems I've hit a nerve.
>>739068096>Reminder that BoTW and ToTK both sold more than twice of OoT.This does not account for Wii or Wii U virtual console sales, nor does it count for the millions at this point who played the game for the first time through Project64 in the 2000s, ParaLLEl in the 2010s, or Ship of Harkinian in the 2020s.
>>739101663I think the fact that it is open word is the problem, and not the fact that it isn't open world "enough". Most people with taste feel the same.
>>739101620I only experience that when I visited New York though, but it was a dream. I was able to go to a bunch of places without it feeling like a chore, whereas in my town it takes a lot longer just to get to 3 different places and having to deal with traffic. It's awful. Why are we so obsessed with being able to go "wherever we want whenever we want" if the experience is miserable.
>>739101709>loves Jew YorkBut of course you do.
>>739101697Whether it's open world or not, you should still be able to skip the tutorial. Why do you think most mods, romhacks and fan projects opt to let you skip it right away?If you ask me, that isn't a "retarded opinion" like you insinuated earlier.
>>739101727Only retards wouldn't, it's cities done right.
>>739101776LMAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>739101786Look at this retard, guys
>>739101554Why would I want to walk around or use a bus in a city? I don't have to share my car with Jamal.
>>739084945Tezuka and Koizumi are the true big dick motherfuckers of Nintendo. Aonuma was once great but lost his touch, Miyamoto has flashes of brilliance but his proclivities have overall held Nintendo games back for decades.
>>739069208Honestly you are right.If the entire point of keeping their games exclusive is so you buy their shitty console to play them, then it fails massively when taking into account their older games because you can just emulate them. Hell my first experience with the N64 was emulating it back in 2009, it's been that way for a long time.Emulators like Dolphin, Project 64, Zsnes have millions of users, and some games like Mario 64 and Super Mario Sunshine are already decompiled to run natively on Windows, so if Nintendo just made their own distribution service to buy their games or just put them on Steam they would be able to get some revenue.Because lets be real, people who want to to play their older games are not going to just go out and buy a Switch 2 just to play Mario 64 or F-Zero when they can just emulate it for free if they actually know how to use a computer.
>>739073792Great bait
>>739101747Any game that isn't completely open in structure is going to have me repeat some segment or another that's too easy and too samey on a replay. I see no reason to get broken up over it when it does happen. In fact, the tutorial is the best part of breath of the wild, not having the glider and all loot and enemies being limited to a low level subset of the whole game makes a lot of the problems it presents more interesting to deal with than the full game. Freedom =/= fun, less story =/= more gameplay.
>>739101817It beats having to drive everywhere. If I'm running on 3 hours of sleep the last thing I wanna do is having to commute for an hour with crazy drivers, and then commute back for another hour when I'm even more piss tired.
>>739101857That would explain why they hate emulation so much. Can't have any threats to their exclusivity system.
>>739073792What has Miyamoto done in the past 20 years? I'll admit he carried Nintendo through the NES and SNES years heavily, but the man needs to retire because he's all washed up and has no brand new ideas.
>>739098980kinda based i dare say
>>739101893I fail to see how this is worse than being murdered.
>>739101964I'm far more likely to get in a car crash running on 3 hours of sleep than getting stabbed in New York.
>>739101812DUDE i just LOVE the hustle and bustle of the big city, it’s so DYNAMIC and makes me feel like i’m in one of my favourite TV SHOWS. you should totally come on down to my studio apartment, it’s got EXPOSED RED BRICK walls and everything, we can crack open a nice hoppy ipa or three and get crazy watching some cartoons on adult swim! and dude, dude, DUDE, we have GOTTA go down to the barcade- listen here, right, it’s a BAR where us ADULTS who do ADULTING can go DRINK. BUT!!!! it’s also an ARCADE like when we were kids, so we can play awesome VIDEO GAMES, without dumb kids bothering us. speaking of which megan and i have finally decided to tie the knot- literally -we’re both getting snipped tomorrow at the hospital, that way we can save money to spent more on ourselves and our FURBABIES. i’m fuckin JACKED man, i’m gonna SLAM this craft beer and pop open another one!!!
>>739102024I can't believe there are daily fatal crashes in the city that's nearly perpetually in gridlock.
>>739101292It's literally the same skeleton, yeah. People that use that as a specific slight against TP don't play Zelda.
>>739102035Your 2 hours of driving on the highway with your only scenery being a big road and big sprawling fields of nothing in your open world games are shit, thank you.
>>739101889>I see no reason to get broken up over it when it does happenI see a reason for it being bad when the entire selling point of these games is their freedom, and it's a lazy copout because the way they stop you from sequence breaking is just putting invisible walls and death barriers everywhere, which only disappear after the tutorial is cleared. If it was something they organically wove into the game, then that would be different. Even Wind Waker's stupid triforce barrier (which kept you from sequence breaking everything and rushing right to ganon) felt like it had more thought put into it. Hell, even OOT felt more organic about it, with that one kokiri not letting you leave because the Deku tree says that it's dangerous for kokiri to leave the forest. If they really wanted you to not skip the tutorial, then they have to come up with something a little more clever than "because you just can't'". Hence is the flaw with nu-Zelda, where everything is optional and you're just told to rush to Ganon whenever you want, so nothing else matters, while older games built up a narrative sequence of events. Like LTTP, Ganon isn't present in the story yet since he's still hiding behind Aghanim, and the game gives you the direction to stop Zelda from being sacrificed. It builds up from there.
>>739101709Try staying there for an extended period. Big cities are miserable.
>walkable city tard loves new york
>>739102101I don't want the entire selling point of these games to be their freedom. I think that's a silly thing to chase. If you're actually fine with story barriers like OOT's and WW's then that's shockingly reasonable of you, normally I'd expect you to rage against the very idea of being held back from doing something because to have to "appease" an NPC or something.
>>739101490>The intro of Link to the Past is legitimately better and, dare I say, gives you the feeling of being open ended, even if most of the world is blocked off until you save Zelda.It's extremely obvious how restricted you are the whole time. LttP can have any given fault shared with any other game and its fanbase will act like it doesn't matter.
>>739101475>A game that is also centered around motion controls for the entire game is also ass.Man, am I glad I played the Gamecube version of TP. Also TP really isn't as dark and gloomy as people remember it, there's a lot of goofy and whimsical shit in it. It honestly has some of the most lighthearted characters in the series. It may have gone a bit overboard on the piss filter and bloom, but I think it does a really good job at balancing its darker elements with lighter, warmer stuff, and imo Zelda is at its best when its contrasting those two sides.
All Aonuma had to do was make all the shitty hand holding characters a toggle in the menu for people who were shit at video games. Imagine playing OoT without Navi, MM without Tatl, WW without Talkboat, Minish Cap without that retarded squawking duck, TP without Midna... they would be true masterpieces.
>>739102245I played TP HD and all I could think about how washed out it felt with color despite it apparently being better than the older versions. OoT did a better job with having unsettling stuff in it at times while still having a good atmosphere to it.
>>739102295>affects literally 0.1% of the game>game is still baby shit for toddlers
>>739101049bunch of bandwagoners that read off a wiki and now they're scholars in whatever. fuck nintendo too for deciding that their money was worth more, and for destroying the canon for some cheap 'member berries
>>7391023200.1% of the game was enough that I was bored as shit with the wolf/midna shit, and fi in skyward swordlet me PLAY THE FUCKING GAME IF I GET LOST I'LL PRESS THE "HELP ME" BUTTON OR TALK TO NPCSSTOP TAKING CONTROL AWAY FROM ME WITHOUT MY INPUT
>>739102339I like it when they out themselves as never having touched the older games when they try and talk about how those games worked too. Animal Crossing was a prime example of this, New Horizons sold more than every previous game combined, so you were statistically far more likely to talk to someone who's never touched another game in the franchise than any other series in comparison. If you talked about the series changing its core focus you would've had retards saying "no see, you collected furniture and decorated your house in the first game, so the series has always been this way" while they treat their villagers as a mere decoration.
>>739074942they had the ique player bro
>>739102339To be fair, destroying the canon has been what Aonuma was doing since Wind Waker.>I WANT OCEAN I WANT OCEAN>NO I DON'T CARE ABOUT ZELDA GAMES MADE BEFORE OOT>THIS IS THE NEW TIMELINE NOW
>>739102194>If you're actually fine with story barriers like OOT's and WW's then that's shockingly reasonable of youIdeally the barriers wouldn't really be too story based, they would have just enough justification via the gameplay to encourage you to do things the "right" way. Take Super Metroid for example. You're supposed to get the varia suit and gravity suit, but speedrunners have been doing work for years trying to beat the game without them. The game doesn't constantly shove a tutorial NPC in your face to say "SAMUS YOU CAN'T GO THERE YET, YOU NEED TO FIND SOMETHING TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE HEAT." The game already gives you incentive to get the suit because you're constantly taking damage. See, that's a fine example of a game barrier that feels natural.>>739102204For a first timer, Hyrule Castle feels vast and expansive, and it's easy to get lost since there's so many hallways you can travel down, and you can even go to the roof despite it having no purpose yet. Sure, on future playthroughs you know exactly where to go, but think back to the 90's when your latest experience was probably Zelda 1 or Adventure of Link, and suddenly you're thrust into a large castle where it's not blatantly clear where you're meant to go. No yellow paint, no check markers, just a vague voice asking you to rescue them.
>>739093437>so just copy and pasted OoT's plotIt copied much of the structure and basic overlying premise of "Hyrule is in trouble and Link, a forest youth, must save it with the help of his companion" but so so much about the actual content, context, presentation, and theming are fundamentally different. Ocarina has one main villain, Twilight has two plus a recurring "rival" character. Ocarina Link is an outcast with only one friend, Twilight Link is a beloved member of his community. Twilight's companion is practically the secondary protagonist with her own personal arc and gradually unfolding mystery. Thematically, Ocarina of Time is the classical hero's journey expressing personal growth through the passage of time, while Twilight Princess deals with the corrupting influence of power on everyone, from the already evil to the innocent or even virtuous.
>>739102746>but think back to the 90's when your latest experience was probably Zelda 1 or Adventure of Link, and suddenly you're thrust into a large castle where it's not blatantly clear where you're meant to goWut? You're obviously forcibly stuck in a dungeon instead of actually being allowed to explore a world of your own volition. It's not even that big of a dungeon. It's in no way more interesting than forced opening segments of other games. LoZ, AoL and even OoT give you considerably more actual freedom.
>>739102712Man imagine if Koizumi stayed with Zelda while Aonuma left to either start a new IP or made Kid Icarus into his own thing after MM.
>>739102956Again, it's all about presentation. Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 let you get into the action rather quickly, but LTTP does so in a way that feels more organically woven into the narrative. They took what could've been a boring, handholdy tutorial, and turned it into a rescue and escape operation. TOTK and BOTW, on the other hand, just tell you to make your own fun, but only after the mandatory exposition dumps. It is aggravating seeing people praise TOTK for its freedom, when the first five minutes aren't even the tutorial, but a humiliation ritual where you have to walk down a hallway and listen to exposition. When old games did that, it was kinda boring, but they had the excuse of being old and not knowing better. A game in 2023 shouldn't be making those mistakes.
Fuck off, secondary
>>739100842>>739100884>>739100921>>739100957>>739100989>>739101018Thank you for sharing, good article. I think I remember reading this way back.
I was always a skyward sword apologist but I've been replaying the HD version on switch 2 and man it's way worse than I remember. I don't mind the back tracking or the linearity, or the nonsensical world. I just mind the SHIT controls. Maybe they just weren't so bad on the wii? I don't know, It's extremely frustrating to have this system where your physical movement matters and then Link just doesn't follow what you do and his sword acts like a magnet to the enemies sword
>>739103351agreed, I'll definitely save the images in case I ever forget why I hate aonuma
>>739103351Anon forgot to post page 66, though. I don't think the quote about Miyamoto forcing him back to work on Zelda shows up on what's been posted.
>>739100206>Why do BOTW fans insist that linearity is bad?Because it's common fucking sense. What 2 million people showed up for Oot, and less than half of that insist it's the best game of all time. 30 million people bought a Switch to play Botw. You fags swim in a kiddie pool and do not understand the world outside of it.
>>739103253>it's all about presentationAt least you're admitting that. LttP has an outright restrictive start, and more so than even most of the games that restrict you at the beginning, as it gives you basically no freedom to explore anything actually meaningful. You can't fuck off through the Lost Woods, fly seagulls, talk to villagers/townsfolk, dance with scarecrows, explore a large section of land for equipment and tools etc. it flat out prevents you from doing anything of interest besides the one task you're allowed to do, in this one place. It's actually almost uniquely bad about this, and very much near the bottom of the series in this regard. But you excuse it for being 'action'.
>>739103253>the first five minutesI'M GONNA KILL MYSELF AHHHHHH>ten minutes into the gameoh, this is actually perfect. best Zelda game actually.
>>739103752>30 million people bought a Switch to play Botw. And 100 million people bought a PS4, despite it having an atrociously bad library. The masses aren't a measure of quality in the way you think they are.>>739103862I wish TOTK and BOTW got better. When the tutorials, despite being boring slogs, are the high points of their entire games, it really drags down the rest of the experience.
>>739103752The majority of the audience that bought BotW would buy anything with the correct campaign behind it. That's what courting the normalfag audience ultimately means.
>any amount of dialogue or exposition is a humiliation ritualTotK sucks. Please stop regardless.
>>739081535I still don't like it desu
>>739103775>you can't fuck off through the Lost Woods, fly seagulls, talk to villagers/townsfolk, dance with scarecrows, explore a large section of land for equipment and tools etc. it flat out prevents you from doing anything of interest besides the one task you're allowed to do, in this one placeAnd traveling through Hyrule Castle is more fun than any of that. Can you even do anything in the Lost Woods before beating the Deku Tree? Can't get the satchel upgrade without the slingshot, can't go to the forest meadow without at least getting the sword, can't travel to zora's domain without the silver scale, can't go to goron city without bombs. On a first time you won't even know the gimmick behind where to go, so often you'll just end up back at the kokiri forest.Sure it's a "thing" to do that's nonlinear and whatnot, but it's not that fun. I should also mention that OOT also has a really big problem with its intro, where most of it is boring exposition. IIRC by the time LTTP lets you get up and start playing, OOT still has you listening to Navi talking about your adventure, and that's before you even get to the deku tree.
>>739103353SS's motion controls were really overhated. People always said they were broken but I didn't have a single issue with them the whole game. I'm convinced people just didn't want to get into it and do the full motions. It was obviously gimmicky and I understand why you wouldn't want to play a whole game like that, but it was very smooth and honestly made for some fun encounter designs. I haven't played the HD version but I have heard the stick controls are pretty janky in comparison. Can you do motion controls with the joycons? Maybe that would work better. I really need to give SS another go, I haven't played it since it came out. I remember thinking a lot of the complaints were valid but also really enjoying my time with it regardless. I wonder how I'd feel about it today.
>>739103940Not until people stop defending a literal hallway that's just there for exposition.
>>739103752And yet, people are going to come into droves to watch the Zelda movie when it has the same story exposition as OoT Zelda. This is why I hate you secondaries, you just go where the bandwagon takes you, and act like you know better than the fanbase who's been there for years while you fester like a parasite. I hope the OoT remake is real and you and every one of your kind leaves while the newcomers who are curious about the games both old and new instead of trashing the entire history of the franchise stay. Fuck you.
>>739063347>slop slop slopshould use chatgpt next time zoomie
>>739103752>What 2 million people showed up for Oot, and less than half of that insist it's the best game of all time.What the fuck are you even saying?
>>739104059The literal hallway that exists solely for exposition is bad. That isn't because exposition is bad. It's because a hallway in which nothing you can fuck up happens is bad, even if it's there because the devs are patronizing in their general gameplay design and not because they want a fucking walk and talk segment.
>>739104156If modern devs weren't huffing their own farts with trying to be the next hollywood, I wouldn't look down on exposition so badly. Back in the day it was at least more tolerable. It hurts seeing Nintendo fall for hollywood psyops and actively ruin their old games with modernized bullshit. look at the Starfox 64 remake.>old game>"this is terrible, Andross has killed an entire city">remake of said game>"WOW, HOLY BIG CHUNGUS, ANDROSS REALLY DID A WHOOPSY DAISY ON CORNERIA, FR FR NO CAP"I hate this industry so much.
>>739104254Some games are just designed like they're for toddlers, whatever the devs want to do story-wise. Hallways are demonstrably shit on their own, it has nothing to do with story. The hallway is shit because it is a hallway. Not everything has to tie into your grand unified theory of the cancer killing video games. Exposition is not evil. "Androids killed a whole city" is still exposition.
>>739101237The real issue is games like BOTW and TOTK probably would've been made when SS came out if Nintendo actually had consoles capable of handling games of that scope at the time. We would've had games that blended old and new zelda properly by now
>>739104287Once devs start dialing back and keeping exposition as a background element, then I'll happily start accepting some exposition in games. Metroid Dread had some exposition, but it was an otherwise good game. My problems with it were more about the parries and some plotholes, but I do appreciate that most of the game is just you being allowed some time alone with your thoughts, and briefings via """Adam""" are relegated to briefing rooms, although it still leaves a lingering bad taste from Fusion, which also had Samus monologue constantly via elevator segments.
>>739099045You were going to hate it anyways since it was destined to turn into a handholding shitfest full of motion controls like Skyward Sword was.
>>739104404So you're saying in the timeline where Nintendo somehow had the foresight to buddy up with Monolithsoft as soon as physically possible, we might have gotten BotW on the Wii?Chilling.
>>739104404we could have had that already with Tears of the Kingdom but instead they spent 6 years making a Lego building minigame within BOTW. we really didn't need two versions of BOTW back to back, I think that's why there's been more backlash to the open world style and argument over the direction of the series over the last couple years. if BOTW was a one off and we had gotten an original game next, the old guard Zelda fans probably wouldn't be so harsh on Breath. I am curious how the Ocarina remake will be received by the new fans of the series that hopped on for Breath. I imagine the next original game is probably already in development and unfortunately is most likely another BOTW-like, but if Ocarina is well received by modern audiences I wonder if they'll consider bringing back elements of the classic formula again.
There are actual retards in this thread going "Why didn't Ocarina of Time outsell Skyward Sword 20 years ago?" Like the same amount of people existed back then. Like the gaming diaspora was big as it is now. Like money has the same value now. Like the Internet and the whole world never changed.Utter buffoonery.
>>739104669>there's been more backlash to the open world styleI'm here for it. I was shit talking it even when BotW was new and I realized just how shallow it felt after the first week of playing.
>>739065792yeah, the formula was already tired when WW released. MM changed it up just enough to feel fresh. BotW is the correct direction, they just need to figure out larger dungeons and accounting for players with different abilities and skill levels better
>>739104669That's a very fair point actually, I like TOTK but I didn't put anywhere near as many hours in it as I did BOTW precisely because of how hollow the innovation felt. When I realized I didn't care for the lego shit I just speed ran the main story and never touched it again, I truly believe the best Zelda game is a mix of OOT and BOTW but we'll see if it ever happens.
>>739104672These people are super disingenuous about it. Mario Kart 8 sold what they would describe as a measly 8 million units, but then went to sell about 71 units on the Switch when it was the same fucking game. Imagine if they made MK9 instead and it sold 71 million units, they would argue that MK8 was trash, but since MK8D sold 71 million they say it's a good game. People who try to use game sales as the only factor of a game's quality have no idea what they're talking about.
>>739104672>Like money has the same value nowBuying power was stronger back then, but nerd culture wasn't as prevalent back then as it is today. Back then people would wanna go to places like the mall or some other casual spot to be social, but now that those places are disappearing because of stuff like online shopping and people being more accustomed to technology with their smartphones, people are going to look for alternative hobbies and ways to be social at home, thus video games. Covid was a huge boost to the gaming culture, it's the reason why old video games shot up in price and never fully recovered, and why even your average gym bro will talk about video games and anime now when before gym bros would bully you for it.
>>739077487Because it was on Gamecube dumbass
>>739069942>Same thing would have happened with FF if Sakaguchi had moved up in Square instead of leaving. Nomura et al would have created a few entries more in line with Sakaguchi's styleSakaguchi was to blame for Nomura going apeshit with Kingdom HeartsHe unleashed Nomura's autism
He has met the terrible fate of having his photo labelled as "Eiichiro Oda" everywhere on Youtube truly a fate worse than death
>>739099405Easier to walk sure, but they're probably afraid he'd either get kidnapped or straight up Mangioned by some otaku if he ever steps foot in public.
>>739071542>It reminds me of how Akira Toriyama came out of retirement to butcher Dragon Ball’s corpse out of spite because he watched Dragon Ball Evolution.That was just PR bullshit they told Toriyama to sayIn reality Toriyama didn't give a fuck about DB Evolution or DB in general, and the only reason he came back is because Toei begged him to revive Dragon BallThere's a story from his 3rd editor in Jump where he recounts seeing Toriyama wash his car and his original manuscripts for DB were there and the water almost got close to them and Toriyama didn't give a single fuck when it was pointed out to him
>>739107262So how does Miyamoto get from place to place then? He can't even eat at a restaurant?
>>739099045Why would you want even more dogshit?
>>739077487Damn right, anon. Remember that Mario Kart title on the Wii U? Third worse selling title of the franchise, embarrassing. Nobody would buy that game if they ever gave it another chance.
>>739070821This interview is fake you schizo
>>739107375I would assume he has a driver and bodyguards. Money is a hell of a thing anon.
I like botw desu
>>739068096Funny how i get why botw is so successfull but every time (2 times ever) I pick it up I alt f4 out of the game 30minutes in.
>>739068319Br00tal
>>739063261>Aonuma hasn't been sabotaging LoZ since WWIt's really obvious he hates the series
>>739103351>>739103487>>739103643FUCKThank you for noticing, I completely overlooked it. Here's the missing page that is the source of the "Miyamoto forced him back to Zelda" line that OP's article was quoting.
>>739099871>No other two games in the series are as samey as OOT and TP are. The absolute nerve to say this in a post-TotK world.
>>739110349TP is less an OoT clone and more a less bad version of WW's first half.
>>739101505You guys would of found a way to hate and scapegoat him like Aonuma if he still worked on Zelda games
>>739067692>BOTW couldve been prevented.what the fuck are you talking about? Without Aonuma you'd have BOTW way sooner. He kept the series in boring limbo for decades. You want endless WW, TP, SS forever?
>>739105428>Buying power was stronger back thenThere was also far more competition in gaming back then and the N64 install base was pitiful compared to Switch + N64 games cost like 70-80 dollars because they used cartridges which was far more than the 50 bucks PS1/Saturn games went forSo it's a bullshit comparison in many levels
>>739063347Uncs are the only ones keeping classic gaming alive.Zoomer and younger only play GaaS-slop
>>739063347FPBP. TP sucked. Zelda games should not have hours of cutscenes.
>>739114072That was the only game where I actually cared about the side characters. Other Zelda games be like>you have to save the princess>why, just because you gotta do it
>>739114240>>why, just because you gotta do itThose were the best Zelda games though. Gameplay>story always. Zelda belongs to us zoomers now, you uncs can play Snoy movieslop if you want cutscenes so badly.
>>739103895Pretty much, what a lot of people refuse to acknowledge is that, if a game in the old formula had been a switch launch title instead of BotW, it would probably had done mario odyssey numbers if not more. BotW didn't sell well on its own merits, but rather because it was in the right place at the right time, the mario kart 8 analogy works here too.
>>739113221yeah I would prefer zelda games over ubislop.
>>739115019The original Zelda wasn't a linear movie game like WW, TP, or SS.
>>739115080it certainly wasnt a shitty ubislop open world game with no content.did you know that zelda1 has more enemies than botw?
Why do zoomer ruin everything they touch?
>>739115152Zelda 1 is the closest an NES game could come to being open world. There are 600+ dungeon orders.>>739115152But are your movie game enemies actually good? People love to praise TP's swordplay, but it's never fully utilized.
>>739114634I think it's a fool's errand to take gameplay too seriously with 3D Zelda. Prior to them turning into open world physics simulator bullshit, they were all spectacle driven to some degree or another. TP is the most honest about it, while MM is probably the overall best one if time limits aren't a filter. There are good gameplay-oriented Zeldas for sure - Zelda 1, Zelda II, ALttP, LA, Oracles. I don't think 3D Zelda's ever been the gameplay peak of the series, they've always been more about memorable moments and aesthetics. The occasional dungeon like Great Bay Temple or Snowpeak Ruins competes with the designs you'd see in a 2D game, but there aren't many in 3D that do.
>>739063347You're not fooling anyone, old man.
>>739100206Because when they get stuck on a puzzle or a part that isn't abundantly clear how to progress, they feel retarded. There's a reason open world games get mocked so much as being for shitters
>>739100206Linear game design is a dying, if not virtually dead art. There aren't many devs working today that have the chops to design something as tight and balanced as the Game Boy Zeldas, "linear" these days is much more associated with movieshit like Mixtape, to pull a very current example out. Obviously there's a middle ground, but considering it's fallen increasingly by the wayside since the 7th gen you now have a generation of adults at this point that bristle at linearity the way people used to bristle at DLC 20 years ago.
he should have made botw terrible if he wanted to be free.
>>739117996but he did do that, and it backfired
>>739115080If WW is a linear movie game so are OoT, MM and to a lesser extent ALttP and LA too
>>739118250>OoT, MM and to a lesser extent ALttPobjectively not. They have a great deal of nonlinearity and variable dungeon orders.
>>739118250WW is a weird one in that the near entire first half of the game is literally on rails, you have no room for autonomy until you're basically at the third dungeon. The games you listed do all ostensibly push the series in a more straightforward direction, but none were so audacious as to include something like pic related. WW, specifically the first half, is a "jump the shark" moment for the franchise that sent it into a decade long spiral before ALBW walked back on it.
>>739073792Mjyamoto is the most photogenic pr guy Nintendo had. Lots of guys worked on the she's and nes games Shiggy gets all the credit for, but they're ugly. Miyamoto was an artist, he didn't make games he drew.
>>739119245Even as far back as the 90s it's just been how things were pushed. Miyamoto? Game Genius who is utterly perfect and has a touch of gold. All Nintendo music? Made by the legendary composition of Koji Kondo. Those other guys? Yeah they helped too I guess.You started to see a little more who-did-what after Wind Waker went over so badly and all the audience and media looked at it and went "Why would Miyamoto do this to us"
>>739101505I want him to direct a hame.
>>739118546>picI wonder who thought of that idea.
>>739068530>hate BoTW is because they love linearityBotW is by far the most linear game in the franchise, you do the exact same shit from 30mn into the game to its end and it seems like I'm not the only one severely disappointed by that game since TotK sold only 2/3 of BotW despite a massively bigger install base.
>>739119638never mind, I'll actually celebrate the day this nigger croaks
>>739119638The biggest issue with the Aonuma era games isn't strictly progression linearity in a vacuum, it's also how little he trusts and respects the player's intelligence and agency. BotW and TotK are open world sandbox games but they still force you to do their tutorials (TotK's is even worse with the mandatory stop-what-you're-doing sidetrack to learn what Heart Containers are) with death planes that don't go away until you do EVERYTHING the tutorials demand.
>>739068096I just realized Minish Cap sold much less than Phantom Hourglass. Damn.
>>739122507TOTK was genuinely a very frustrating first time experience. Not only is the tutorial long as all hell but I kinda recall that if you died a few minutes into the game (since you could literally face a Hinox first thing) you had to start from the island again and spend a good chunk of time finding a good landing spot that wouldn’t get you instakilled. I might have a weird memory of it since I played it 3 years ago but I do remember being frustrated with the game off the bat.
>>739123183I bet it releasing right when/after the DS came out played a big role in fucking it over, alongside residual misgivings over the toon style.
>>739113221>You want amazing things that worked for decades, forever?Retard.
>>739115569>Zelda 1 is the closest an NES game could come to being open world.It objectively could have come closer within the framework it set up itself if it just altered the design and placement of a few items. Anyone who claims Zelda 1 actually has ANYTHING in common with nu-Zelda is just repeating marketing copy.
>>739123820I personally gave up on the series after SS was such a piece of shit and didn't even try BOTW until a year after it was out. I had such a good time that it won me back to the series single handedly.
>>739124325The only commonality it shares with Zelda 1 is the lack of a strict dungeon order. But to actually get into the dungeons themselves, you're told where they are and you have to do a bunch of plot shit to get into each of them/actually do anything in them. That's way more along the lines of previous 3D games.
>>739121145I wouldn't call BotW "linear" so much as it is "lazy". Previous Zelda games were defined by the buildup and intrigue of major discoveries. The games would do more and more guiding the player into those moments, but earlier on it was more about figuring it out yourself. BotW does the absolute bare minimum it can in crafting those moments at all, and instead gives players a bunch of creator tools and says "make them yourself". Understandably, this is a very divisive prospect. In my eyes, this would appeal more to fans of Garry's Mod than it would Zelda.
>>739072964>>739072414Every single time, lmao
>>739064476>I wish koizumi had been assigned to the zelda mines insteadMiyamoto probably forced Aonuma to stay on Zelda just so Koizumi couldn't come back to Zelda.
>>739073230Same applies to the one that calls everyone eric.Fun fact for you, they play both sides anyway.
>>739125018>>739125096>>739124948Cry harder, Eric
>>739115569If Zelda 1 thought the player "choosing" where to go next was the end all be all of game design like BOTW does, none of the dungeons would have any entry requirements beyond getting to the screen they're on, which would just be a matter of navigating the overworld.In Zelda 1, you want the raft because you need it to get somewhere you need to go, and it exists in a specific place in the world to solve that specific problem.In BotW, you want a raft because you want to go somewhere slower than riding a horse or paragliding along a similar route, and you can find rafts literally anywhere the devs thought they'd given you a half decent use case for them.
bump
>>739125225Sounds like you lost and got raped ;)
>>739125225Now that I think about it, I kind of want Dungeon items that have decent usage outside of their respective dungeons again, but I don't think they have been able to nail that consistantly yet.
>>739125501The problem is that items tend to correspond to specific objects. They need to try making objects that change interactions with certain environmental features instead. Like rather than magnet gloves in the Oracle games only working with magnet blocks, make them work with something like ore deposits in BOTW, or make items that do something with a flat wall or a pit.Honestly not including the hookshot or Cane of Somaria in BOTW was a massive fumble.
>>739125501OoT would manage something close to that if it just used a wider selection of the enemies it already has coded and functional in more of the game.
>>739126010Hookshot would have actually been amazing with how many objects it could naturally latch on to.But part of me wants to blame the glider and Ravali's Gale existing.>>739126114OoT had a good chunk of items with good use outside of the dungeon, I want to 'Kinda' say Twilight Princess did that as well but not as much? I might need to replay it one day to double check.
