Rebirth is coming out on Switch 2 and XBOX in about 2 weeks it ain't finished yet.

rebirth? nothing
ff17? the worst story ever written, coutesy of yoship

>still no sales numbers
Embarrassing.

I want four niggas in a row not capcom but worse.

>>739071360
Metaphor and E33 are better.

>>739071676
>rebirth? nothing
thanks for letting us know you buy Ubisoft games.

>>739071360
>Playsation Timed-Exclusive
>PC bad performance +Denuvo

>>739071360
Mogged by E33

>>739071360
Rebirth is a great game as a separate thing from the OG. A sequel if you must.

Reduce your expectations then.

>>739071360
>What went so wrong?
Square enix is retarded

They were retarded about womb raider and dude sex too

>>739071360
FF16? They released it as a PS5 exclusive, which greatly reduced its momentum. You snoys praise your exclusives so much, but when you had them, you did nothing but bitch about how you didn't have games to play. The screwed up reputation Square Enix garnered these last few years over stupid choices only worsened the issues.

As a result, 16 flopped and SE swore off exclusives for good.

FFVII? Where the fuck do I even begin?

>>739071360
The expectations and making the FF7 Remake

1) Not one game, but 3, guaranteeing dropoffs in sales and falling off the radar for "waitfags" who ain't planning to play until it is "complete" like teh original was no matter how long it takes.
2) Not a Remake but some Alternate Universe Semi-Sequel tying into the expanded universe.

I get why they did it from a logistical stand point, but it was still a fucking mistake the fumbled the casual "Wow! FF7, a critically acclaimed game my unc never shuts up about is releasing again in a form where it is actually playable!" Zoomer appeal and devalued the FF7 brand.

i'm glad the game did bad financially because they made it pozzed and i hope Square Enix burns to the ground but Rebirth is still a masterpiece and the 3rd game will be as well, i don't care if it sells 1 copy (me)

>>739071360
Rebirth, and the FFVII Remake trilogy as a whole, just ended up being nothing that anyone wanted.

The VII Remake isn't really anything. It's a dating sim, but it's not really a dating sim, so it doesn't fully scratch the dating sim itch. It's the same as the original Final Fantasy VII, but it's not. It's different from the original, but it's also still the same. It's the same characters as the original, but they're different. The Final Fantasy VII Remake doesn't know what it wants to be, so it ends up being nothing at all. Remake didn't expand on Midgar except letting you play in some kid's fort and getting erotic hand service from a geisha. Meanwhile Rebirth turned Final Fantasy VII into an open world Ubisoft Tower game with endless minigames and collectathon nothingness. The Final Fantasy VII Remake doesn't actually have any identity, it just has the likeness of the characters from the Final Fantasy VII, and that somehow is enough to carry it to where it is now, which is a game that sold more poorly (Rebirth) than the single most divisive Final Fantasy game of all time (XVI), despite having the Final Fantasy VII IP to carry most of its weight for it.

>>739073746
>open world Ubisoft Tower game with endless minigames and collectathon nothingness.
I don't understand why people keep lying about this shit. It's basically just downstream distortion at this point of everyone just parroting an opinion without any real experience while trying to sound smart and informed about it when again, they are not.

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>>739073943
>I don't understand why people keep lying about this shit.

No one is lying.
>Rebirth has Ubisoft Towers
>Rebirth has a shit ton of minigames
>Rebirth has a bunch of collectathon nothingness

Are you upset by people accurately describing Rebirth?

>>739074048
>same exact webm that's been posted a billion times with hash changed so people can't track it anymore.

>>739071360
Sony.

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>>739071360
>What went so wrong?
SE has zero momentum as a brand because it takes them ten years to make every fucking game. FFXVI feels pretty recent right? Just three years ago.

FFVII, FFVIII, and FFIX all came out in a three and half year time span. While we're still trying to decide if XVI was good or not, our 2000 selves had 3 entire Final Fantasies to enjoy across the same amount of time.

It's been 7 years since KH3 and they've released a single rhythm game spinoff. KH4 is dead because FF7R is sucking up Nomura's focus.

DQ11 is 9 years old and what? A couple spin-offs and a remake of 1-3 and 7? They're just scared of what to do with the series now that Toriyama and Sugiyama are gone.

What went so wrong? Time.

God I fucking hate Square-Enix as a company. They're just Japanese Bethesda. The merger was the end.

>>739074048
nta but how is this relevant to me, i haven't played a Ubisoft game in 20 years. i'm not overexposed to any of this stuff because i don't play open world games, so i thought it was a fun change of pace in Rebirth.

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>>739074048
I saved it at some point, but I have never changed the hash. It is weird that the hash is nevertheless different somehow, since nothing shows up in the archives. I don't know how that happened.

>>739073943
Perhaps you could provide us with an example of a 7R criticism you would find acceptable?

>>739074379
It's just a very tired and overused formula by now. Seems like every open world slop game has that shit, and it's disappointing to see that Final Fantasy VII became an open world memeslop game too. You could even say that it no longer has the skeleton of Final Fantasy, by virtue of it being an open world Ubisoft Tower action game.

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>>739071360
>make supposedly a FFVII remake
>change the battle system
>change the story to be some parallel universe retardation bullshit
>"Why aren't they buying?"

zoom zooms hasn't been able to form a connection with final fantasy since they release a main line title once every 15 years and has fallen into irrelevancy because of it

>>739074048
>Cloud doesn't climb up the tower and jump down to a group of moggles trying to catch him
What a cuck.

>>739074494
i wholeheartedly disagree and think that making it open world was the best way to translate FF7s overworld into a modern game, and that they pulled it off quite well, outside of some areas being shit to navigate. post your playtime btw

The towers are mostly extra fast travel spots and ultimately point out things you were probably going to want to go and deal with anyway. The only thing I really disliked about it was Chadley, and how uniform it was.

>>739074565
Did you take any issue with remake's linearity or was that the best way to do that game and open world was the best way to do this game (and part 3 will also be done in the best way)

I bet if they released the full game on PS4 in 2020 it would've sold better and kept selling.

>>739071360
Depended too hard on the modern Playstation audience who have the same gaming tastes as the typical Xbox gamer. PS is where JRPGs go to die nowadays unless it's some FOTM type of game.

>>739074048
>Rebirth has a shit ton of minigames
It's weird because you're implying that's bad. Queen's Blood was fun. The dumb diversions in some chapters were fun. Hell just shooting rocks as Barret was fun. You're shitting on it for being a Ubislop-like but it's those minigames and diversions that prevent it from being
>tower
>summon stone
>lifestream crystals
>protomateria sidequest
>barely improved FFXV combat
Every fucking minute on every fucking zone.

Can you name a single Ubisoft game with even a few of the weird diversions that Rebirth is full of?

>>739074565
>i wholeheartedly disagree and think that making it open world was the best way to translate FF7s overworld into a modern game
I mean, maybe? There didn't need to be Towers though.

>post your playtime btw
No. I've been through this with the E33 fags already. I don't want to monetarily support slop, so I don't have a Steam playtime to show you, and I don't have it installed anymore.

>>739074658
idk if this is a unique opinion but i hate Remake and love Rebirth, i have huge issues with the overall direction they took this "Remake" project but since Remake was already done they had to proceed with Rebirth, which is so good it redeemed the entire project for me

>>739074723
>It's weird because you're implying that's bad.
Yes.

>>739074732
maybe if you didn't play Ubislop faggot garbage you wouldn't be traumatized by your past experiences. i didn't think twice about towers, for me it was just something you do to open parts of the map.
>I've been through this with the E33 fags already
oh so you're the same faggot shitting on E33 who hasn't played it. i see, KEK!

>>739074478
Anyone who plays the "you are parroting a youtuber!" card in response to a critique is just a fanboy drone. It's the weakest rebuttal to criticism possible yet they really believe it works somehow.
You could just as easily claim they only like the game because a youtuber told them to. But nobody ever says "you're just parroting praise"

Hmm I've seen some of these posts before.

>>739074851
Meanwhile, a constant cirticism in other recent FF games was the lack of minigames and whimsy altogether. Even then, original FF7 had a lot of minigames regardless so it was bound to have them too.

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What Is The BA7RY Test?

Firstly, who is Barry? Barry is a XV fan who combs 4chan for posts criticizing XV to reply to. In his mind, every criticism of XV is wrong, no matter how big, small, reasonable or unreasonable. It's all wrong, and he will set you straight on that matter.
Unfortunately, FFVIIR has its own Barry, named BA7RY, who acts in the same way. He's hard to miss. Do you suspect he's ITT? Then apply the BA7RY test. It's simple!

Just ask him: "What would be a valid criticism of VIIR?"

Barry would never criticize XV, even slightly. And BA7RY will never criticize VIIR either. This simple test lets you know if you're talking to a reasonable person who is capable of discussion, or a wall of fanboy autism who will never give an inch and is only here to tell you that you're wrong wrong wrong!
If your anon replies reasonably, he passes the BA7RY test. If he immediately chimps out and starts screaming about boogymen, BINGO! That's a BA7RY! After all, Barry's favourite tactic was to call everyone Nathan. Because only one person ever called out Barry, right?
Try it yourself!

>>739074868
So it's my fault for playing video games now?

>oh so you're the same faggot shitting on E33 who hasn't played it. i see, KEK!
Well, I have played it, and I've never even shit on it. Just provided my opinion, which is that it's not a 10/10 game, it's a 7/10 game, and Act III is irredeemable trash which kinda retroactively also makes the rest of the game (which had been good to that point) worse in retrospect.

Thank you for proving my point though. I suppose you acquired your rhetoric from the E33 bots. Go ahead, call me brown now.

>>739074986
Would anyone really chimp out over such a simple question? I could give you a list of criticisms of any games I like, even the very best ones.

>>739074658
Remake is set entirely in one city, similarly to the beginning of FF7, so there was no walking from one town to another. Rebirth covers what they do next, and they're basically done with Midgar by the end.
There's nothing wrong with complaining that Remake is too cramped or straightforward. It's just obviously smaller than a game set across an entire planet.

>>739071360
I'd say the franchise itself is in a tough spot.

Old heads are aging out so its tough to keep bringing back "familiar faces" as anyone new to the franchise MIGHT know who Cloud is but they wont know anybody from 8,9,10,12 or 13, which is the main well Squeenix keeps drawing from.

If they are going to keep going this route they need to reintroduce the characters narratively in some way. It's easy to get fans of the series going "OMFG they brought back X from Y!!!" But the character announcements don't do anything for bringing in new people, it doesn't hold any weight with the general gaming audience like it does for fans of the series.

>>739075041
why would i bother calling you brown when you've already made it so clear to everyone?

>>739074939
>Meanwhile, a constant cirticism in other recent FF games was the lack of minigames and whimsy altogether.
I have never made this criticism of any video game. I generally do not like minigames or pointless busy work.

>>739075043
Obviously you havent encountered BA7RY yet

>>739074986
I wish someone thought about me as much as Barry thinks about FF.

>>739075085
>[he ran through the entire E33 shillbot playbook in 2 posts]
I accept your concession.

>>739075092
it's your fault for playing the side content, not SE's fault for making the side content bad

>>739074986
Saved

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>>739075143
you lost and got raped, buckbroken anon-kun. i'll keep pointing that out as long as you keep seething about this game in unrelated threads.

>>739075092
JRPGs altogether might not be for you then, because that is practically a prerequisite in most of them.

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>>739075043
>Would anyone really chimp out over such a simple question?

>>739074986
Good to know, thank you

>>739075194
Oh hi Ba7ry

>>739075194
What would be a valid criticism of 7R?

>>739075194
Reminder that I have never seethed about E33. I mostly liked it. I just accurately called you out as an E33 shillbot using the exact same playbook that the E33 shills use if you say *anything* even remotely negative about E33.

Games are not the issue here, the game's cultists are.

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>>739074764
Same. Remake was a slog but Rebirth was actually pretty fucking neato.

>>739074851
Then you probably didn't enjoy FF7 much because it's the exact fucking same.

>>739075285
>>739075286
see my first post itt >>739073308
it's pozzed. the NPC's make me sick to my fucking stomach to look at. i encourage the piracy of this video game despite how great it is.

>>739075289
You are talking to BA7RY. Good luck trying to reason with that giga autist.

Regardless of what happens in part 3 it will be defended to the death by people who would have loved it no matter what. All they want is more time with the characters. It doesn't matter if it's tedious, boring, nonsensical, badly written, insulting to their intelligence, utter trash. They could make a 100 hour game set in Seventh Heaven and they'd like it, because they get more time with the characters. At some point fans like them became obsessed with the characters, but don't actually care about the story or the game they're in.
Is AC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is BC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is CC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is DC good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.
Is 7R good? No, but it gives us more time with the characters, so they like it.

>>739075203
I've been playing JRPGs longer than you have been alive, anon.

>>739075318
>Then you probably didn't enjoy FF7 much because it's the exact fucking same.
Well, no, one of the biggest criticisms of the VII Remake is that it's not exactly the fucking same. I think Midgar is close to a legit 10/10 segment and that everything after that kinda meanders around and takes too long but is still generally good.

>>739075363
I'm sure anyone who takes issue with this post will gladly prove it wrong by giving us some examples of things that could potentially happen in part 3 that they would call shit.

>>739075203
kys

>>739075407
You'd think so, wouldn't you? But they can't, so they'll just say "this was posted before" instead. Watch.

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watched 3 teenagers play it and everyone were super confused what happened with aerith "death" scene they ruined the most important part of the trilogy and now theres no audience for last game

Maybe they should've released them as turn-based games. I've heard turn-based is in vogue right now.

>>739075404
>I've been playing JRPGs longer than you have been alive, anon.
Are you 60?

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>>739075349
How many different video game discussion narratives is this guy attempting to control?

>rebirth
almost fucking everything imaginable besides the combat being neat on a conceptual level
>xvi
committed the gravest sin imaginable, not being worth $70 and being a little boring midway through

>>739075498
I don't know but he's having about as much luck as his father Barry did kek

>>739075489
>Are you 60?
Are you retarded? How does that make any sense?
I have been playing JRPGs for 33 years or so.

>>739071360
>call something final fantasy
>it isn't
GOSH WHY DID THIS FAIL
>call something final fantasy 7
>it isn't
GOSH WHY DID THIS FAIL
>make a game actually like final fantasy
>it wins every award sells millions of copies and is beloved by everyone
GOSH HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN

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take the XII pill

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>>739071360
The mystery of 16 isn't a mystery at all
It had half the budget of both 7 remakes. That the shit didn't come out worse (than it is) like a Left Alive tier disaster is pretty miraculous.
There is no excuse for the remakes given they had endless time, money, and workforce.

>>739075643
>GOSH HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN
That one was actually an industry plant though.

For the autist here: I'm once again not saying E33 is bad. I'm just telling it how it is.

>>739075715
kill yourself

>>739075703
>Flopspoken had more budget than FFXVI
fucking hell.

>>739075643
>make a game actually like final fantasy
lol lmao

>>739075363
Sadly true

>>739075715
I'll say E33 is bad. In fact, I'd be willing to take it a step further and say that it's a pretentious french freemason faggot game, >>739075782 No you.

>>739071360
Square Enix loves saying some shit didn't meet their expectations soooooooooo much

>>739075798
Being a western game tends to add on a few pounds.

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>>739075703
It is actually insane that XVI cost less than half of what Remake and Rebirth each individually cost to make. Even fucking FORSPOKEN was given more budget than XVI, god damn.

The fucking VII Remake trilogy is going to have cost fucking 6x what XVI cost to make.

>>739071830
Trvke. They're turn BASED, after all.

>>739075835
you've been seething about this game every single day for a straight year you ridiculous fuckin' retard

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>>739071360
What a complete trash design that FF16 character has.
Straight out of the generic edgy shit that was popular 15 years ago and has been completely stale for about a decade.
Square Enix needs to die, it produces nothing but expensive garbage.

>>739075349
Nice try Steven, but I'm still not boughting this slop game.

I love FF7
When I think about playing rebirth, I just think “it’s not gonna be that much different then the original, I have already played it”

FF7 the original is still a very playable, very fantastic game, and outside of higher polygon count on Tifa’s tits, I don’t know why I would play it.

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>>739075835
>I'd be willing to take it a step further and say that it's a pretentious french freemason faggot game
I 100% agree with this because it's simply true, but I still think it was a decent game up until Act III.

>>739075984
>this is how far gone an individuals mind has to be to hate E33
makes sense

>>739071360
Mostly I just don't think there is much of a FF audience anymore.

It's not weeb enough to cater to the zoomers who grew up watching anime, and it's certainly not dudebro enough to cater to your average PS5 owner.
Final Fantasy is "cringe" in a way where it's only really tolerable to people who first played it(or similar stuff) when they were around 12. And well, the last time Final Fantasy was popular enough to attract that audience was with FFX. There haven't been a meaningful influx of new fans for like 20 years. You can only bleed for so long. Kind of impressive they lasted this long already.

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>>739075643
>game actually like final fantasy
I mean Octopath only hit 5M with 3 games so I don't think that's really the issue
I think the issue is that SE doesn't know how to advertise or make appealing games in general

>>739071360
>we gonna remake FF7
>oh cool
>we split it into 3 separate games
Fuck you

>>739071360
3 core issues.
1, they still believe the number goes up forever, when between the global economy being fucked, the game industry becoming increasingly transparently awful, and people just having enough games, this is patently false.
2. Squeenix production costs are consistently absurdly higher than they need to be, meaning they expect unrealistic returns, because they see money in = money out. The problem is most of this money is being blown on cocaine and whores by their celebrity idea guys who produce a dozen proofs of concept a year, but no game after 10 years.
3. Fans of JRPGs have slowly, collectively woken up to the Final Fantasy games being slop by being exposed to other examples, and/or realizing Final Fantasy was mostly just a klepto studio whose original ideas tend to frequently be cited as the worst part of the games they appear in. It has also gotten harder for them to steal shit, because the industry produces less, and what is produced is mostly higher profile, so people recognize the body parts of things they liked now.

>>739076115
graphics are a big part of actually being like FF, anon

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>>739076103
There is a lot of masonic symbolism in E33, anon. When Renoir first kills them, Gustave goes through the introductory fake death rite and even clutches his heart like he's supposed to. Gustave is the masonic G. His name always had to begin with a G.

>>739076115
Each Octopath sales worse than the last. That shit was never good.

>>739076105
This
Final Fantasy is in the weird sonic-in-high-school stage.
All the cool kids think you're a faggot, all the nerds are playing shit even they can't pronounce, but your sheltered ass still thinks Sonic is the coolest thing you have ever seen (your parents won't let you have anything cooler).

Except, without even the excuse of this being something kids used to like.

>>739076105
According to data, FF is basically totally irrelevant to younger audiences. The only people still holding on are like 40+ on average.

>>739076195
and how exactly does this affect the quality of the game, schizo-kun?

People are shitting on 7R... quick, deflect to E33!

>>739076105
FF fags include the same subsection of weebs that slurp up fire emblem, claiming they aren't playing an anime game and shit their pants with rage when the devs say otherwise. But it also has 30 year old narutard hot topic fans from the mid 2000s who shit and piss their pants when the games are too serious, and they try and pander to both sides with different projects rather than making games that will have some level of appeal to either

>>739076271
the entire thread is about shitting on Rebirth, one faggot who also doesn't like Rebirth decided to randomly seethe about E33 despite it being a completely unrelated thread. one exceedingly buckbroken and raped faggot is the cause of all of this.

>>739075902
The worst thing is, of all the complaints I've seen of XVI, none of it is because of it's budget. It's mainly gameplay and story. Unless yoship is just a fucking savant at budgeting, they could make these games way cheaper.

>>739076103
>>739076195
>>739076254
I will remind cultist shillbot anon once again that I don't hate E33. I have repeatedly informed you that I like E33. I just thought Act III was trash, because it is, and I think it's an industry plant game with clear masonic symbolism and connections to freemasonry, because it is.

>>739076157
FF stopped looking exceptional a few years into the PS3's lifespan when they started reusing the assets of XIII and they were dated as all hell

>>739076353
ok then why did you start seething about it out of nowhere in a thread about a completely unrelated game? care to explain that one for me? you lost and got raped.

>>739075670
>worst FF game
Most people forget that pile of shit even exist.

>>739076151
Don't forget that SE as a whole doesn't even make good RPGs.

Hate that my fav game FFXIV is funding thes>>739076375
e shitty flops nobody likes.

>>739076375
i'm not denying that, i wasn't really talking about fidelity, but there's a huge difference between realistic graphics in FF and the graphics in OT

>>739075643
>make a game actually like final fantasy
The biggest issue with octopath is their insistence on covering the screen with every postprocessing effect known to man which makes them look much worse than they really need to.

>>739076345
>one faggot who also doesn't like Rebirth decided to randomly seethe about E33 despite it being a completely unrelated thread
Actually, that's not what happened. Someone didn't like my opinion and told me that I need to post playtime, just like the E33 shillbots do. But I pirated the games, so I have no Steam numbers to give.

This set him off because, surprise surprise, he actually is the same exact E33 shillbot spouting the same exact rhetoric, going through the same exact playbook that the E33 shillbots go through. *AND* I have done nothing except say that I like E33, but you faggots keep telling me that I'm seething about E33 when I'm not. I'm calling the E33 cultists deranged schizos, and apparently the E33 cultist is also a Rebirth cultist because he acts the same way when people say anything negative about Rebirth, like saying the Ubisoft Towers are retarded.

This makes me kind of sad. I stopped playing Final Fantasy shortly after XII came out. There was such a glut of good games I could not dedicate myself to slog through a Final Fantasy game and it seemed like such a downgrade from X. At that time I played every Final Fantasy but III.

Last year I decided since everything is so terrible these days to play all the Final Fantasy games. Started with I and worked my way all the way back up to XII. Playing mostly in release date order. XII was much more enjoyable this time and I actually finished it. XIII was a downgrade but I got through it. XIII-2 was meh and LR was getting better. At least with combat. XV I enjoyed. But I really liked XVI and the Final Fantasy VII remakes. At least combat. VII I always felt was good, perhaps even great, but was never my favorite. But I really enjoyed the combat in the remakes. XVI combat was more basic then I would have liked but I enjoyed the story as well more then I probably should have.

The fact that they are not doing well just makes me depressed. I am actually excited for the next Final Fantasy game for the first time in two decades and everyone thinks they are shit. I don't know what is wrong with me.

>>739076273
Hey
I like Fire Emblem but not Final Fantasy
Don't lump us together

>>739076350
>Unless yoship is just a fucking savant at budgeting
Yoshida is indeed a savant at budgeting. XIV is notoriously kept on a shoestring budget and anything that gets "added" necessarily comes at the expense of something else being put on the backburner. And all XIV profits go to fund slop like Foamstars, it doesn't even get put back into the game.

>>739076353
lmao looneytroon you are something else

>>739076517
it's pretty convenient that you keep getting asked in different threads about different games to prove that you played the games you're shitting on but you can never do it. curious

>>739071360
People don't want playstation anymore. Sony has been holding companies like square enix back hard. Barrierstation doesn't sell third parties. Even according Sony's own numbers people are just buying one to play fortnite

>>739076157
Yeah, personally I would say this is a part of the trap they have fallen into. Graphics, impressive set pieces, great music, etc. were a huge draw for FF games in the past. But now most other games have improved enough that great graphics are not necessarily a big deal, and others still have more impressive set pieces. Now that FF can't coast on and be carried by that, the increasingly mediocre writing, stories, and gameplay can't hold up.

>>739075363
Even as a fan, I'd say that's fair. It is all about what you care in a game story, either the plot itself or the characters.
For someone who likes the characters it isnt that the plot doesnt matter, but the plot is nothing without characters that are part of it, and no matter how kino the general idea is if you dont care or related to the character then the general plot is just useless.
Others dont really care about the characters as long as the general plot/mesage/themes fit a cool criteria. Characters are fine for them, but this one doesnt really care if the character is attractive (attractive not physically, but as a character) as long as his part in the story is relevant.
In this game or at least part 1, the game is clearly much more character driven than plot driven because lets face it, the game has its own midgar arc but due to the sephiroth exposure, the game gives this feeling that the main plot hasnt move forward just yet. The characters are fantastic to the point that it is even fun to just hear them talk about mundane shit, to treat them as real human beings and to care what they are going through
It is probably the reason why i like 7r so much but completely hate FFXII, where the plot is fine and interesting but the characters completely suck, so the plot doesnt really interest me

>>739071360
Well for 7 they tried to turn one game into 4 so they could rake in the profits of people selling the original discs in used game shops.
16 I don't know i haven't played it. Ain't got time.

>>739076252
They definitely try and fail to attract a younger audience, like with FF15 which was an attempt at making something "the kids" would like, but nobody liked it. It's probably hard to make a JRPG that minors want, unless you're making Pokemon, but they should probably try to make a good game and worry about who will want it later.

>>739074986
Suddenly FF threads make a lot more sense

>>739076518
Enjoy what you enjoy, don't feel bad about it. Everyone has guilty pleasure's that most people don't like. If anything you're in a relatively pretty good spot since square is stubborn enough to make a ff17 and even a ff18. Most guilty pleasure games are one and done

>>739076389
>>739076603
>ok then why did you start seething about it out of nowhere in a thread about a completely unrelated game?
I didn't. You're just an E33 shillbot and started running your playbook here and I called it out.
See >>739074565 >>739074732

I complained about "E33 fags", not E33. I didn't realize that the E33 shillbots are also Rebirth shillbots.

>>739076615
>it's pretty convenient that you keep getting asked in different threads about different games to prove that you played the games you're shitting on but you can never do it. curious
Well, it's (You) doing it in both threads. We've established this fact by virtue of the thread ceasing to be about Rebirth or XVI and instead now you are all coming together to defend E33 when I didn't even shit on it. You keep telling me I'm shitting on E33 or whatever, but I'm not. I have done nothing except tell you that I like it.

And I *can* prove that I played it. I have even uploaded my save file and taken images of my game saves. No one ever cares though, they just keep repeating their catchphrases because they wanted a Steam playtime and I can't provide that because I pirated it. Also, back when I did still have the game installed, I did post an image of my 80 hours or so of playtime, and someone told me I got it from YouTube. There really is just no winning with you cultists.

>>739076518
Most of the complaints seem to be from people who solely play FF7 on loop every day and are mad that FF16 isn't just FF7 again. It is a pretty good game, as are the remakes. Square and most developers should take notes and try to make their action games more similar to those. They aren't turn based RPGs, though, and that's a turn off for people who once adored Final Fantasy.

>>739076413
A list of good games that Squaresoft made before the merger turns up Front Mission, which is good, the middle Final Fantasies, which are okay, and Chrono Trigger, which is good.
A list of Enix games before the merger that are good would be too long to fit in 2000 characters.
Why did it have to happen this way?

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>>739076879
i ain't readin allat m'nigga, you lost and got raped.

>>739076997
I dunno man, I think you raped and gaped yourself by revealing that you're the same dude in both Rebirth and E33 threads running defense for both games making sure that no one says *anything* negative about it, ever.

>>739075363
I liked Dirge of Cerberus.
But, uh. None of the others.

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>>739076105
That's why the weeb Final Fantasy games will always be more popular than the ones that pander to the west because FF7 is what gave the series its identity in the first place. XVI is perfect proof that chasing the western market was always a mistake, bad execution aside. SE just shot themselves in the foot by not making the new game weeb-ish like FF7.

>>739077069
i've said plenty negative about Rebirth and i hate Remake and barely consider it a 6/10. and i call you brown for considering E33 a 7/10, because you are.

>>739073308 Imagine coping this fucking hard. 'I hope the multi-million dollar studio burns to the ground but it's still a 10/10 masterpiece!' You absolute clown, you're literally funding the 'pozzed' slop you claim to hate just so you can spend another 80 hours watching Cloud play an autistically overdesigned card game. Keep sailing on that river of denial while Square Enix uses your wallet as an ash tray.

>>739076151
>collectively woken up to the Final Fantasy games being slop by being exposed to other examples
new FF games are slop. PS1-era FF is kino. Square never had the best mechanics or anything but in terms of telling a cool fantasy story with insane art direction and music with average JRPG mechanics there really wasn't anything else like it. Uematsu is still top-tier in terms of JRPG composers and Nomura and Amano are still probably the best JRPG character designers.

What happened is that FF
A. started having totally dogshit writing
B. lost Uematsu
C. started dumbing down gameplay in a series that was already babby's first RPG mechanically
D. forgot that level design and exploration should probably be a thing in a big fantasy RPG

>>739077069
nigger you are replying to two people, but I also didn't read all the way down your cope slope
you're a retard

>>739076350
the gameplay isn't too shabby, though obviously not on the level of any other action great.
The story and content is where it falls flat and a lot of that shit you can tell the adjustments they had to do fit the budget

There's these semi-primed forms that characters get; Think fake ass devil trigger. There's one for Bahamut too. But, because they had to wrap the story up it's not done by Bahamut, it's just some random mute enemy you face as a roadblock with no story significance. The sidequest structure involves Star Ocean 5 another game raped by budget (and bad decisions) amounts of backtracking, and even the DLC was touched with only one having a new eidolon. Don't get me wrong, they could have still failed just as hard with a proper budget and workforce, but the presence of neither surely didn't help.

>>739071360
Playstation exclusivity and the retarded as FUCK fanboys that stroke their ego, but deep down, could never sattisfy any demands.
Playstation is a premium product that exists to sit in shelves or be used as a dedicated Fifa machine, nothing more.

>>739077121
>and i call you brown for considering E33 a 7/10, because you are.
I am a straight White man and any straight White man would consider E33 a 7/10. Maaaybe an 8/10 if something about it really resonated with you. Act III is too bad to give it anything higher than that.

>>739077151
That's honestly weirder, because this guy apparently doesn't even like Remake yet he's sperging out at me about E33 for some reason.

>>739077123
>Imagine being able to look at a game objectively while still acknowledging the moral shortcomings of its creator

All of the flops yet Square Enix is still doing fine money wise after the recent reports, good even. They will never die.

>>739077264
>obsessed retard calls someone weird for hating a bad game and liking a good one

>>739077264
how is that weirder, you are calling me a 7R shill who refuses to say anything bad about the game when i consider Remake 6/10 and Rebirth 9/10

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>>739076960
Versus XIII was supposed to be the real FF7 again. You had the Insomnia prologue that mirrored Midgar, a tragic love story between the MC and heroine, and a villain who manipulates everything behind the scenes. They literally followed the FF7 blueprint 1:1 and yet they still managed to screw up badly with XV. It's incredible how it all turned out.

>>739076862
>Everyone has guilty pleasure's that most people don't like. If anything you're in a relatively pretty good spot since square is stubborn enough to make a ff17 and even a ff18. Most guilty pleasure games are one and done
Yeah I am not really ashamed I like the games. Just sad that the sales might try and change the games because people don't like them. Then again maybe the changes will be positive.

>>739076960
>They aren't turn based RPGs, though, and that's a turn off for people who once adored Final Fantasy.
I mean I like turn based RPGs. But I am a bit of an omni-gamer as I play almost every genre. Well maybe not sports games. At least since the 90s. But I can enjoy nearly everything. So moving away from turn based roots is not that big of a deal for me. I just wished if they went more action oriented they fully committed as XVI was pretty light on the action game front even if it was an action game.

>>739077069
Why are you malding about e33 in a thread about ff

>>739077143
That's fair enough.
I think 4 and 5 were pretty good for what thet were
But I think the average person's experience with final fantasy starts with 7, which was the beginning of the end.

>>739076518
rebirth has good core gameplay but its filled with idiotic writing stretching out a story not made for the scale they gave it on top of an open world that it doesn't need
XVI is a decent framework for a pure action rpg thats mostly just hindered by weird design choices (ie the ng/postgame being the intended play experience of a 40 hour game, no side content at all, rpg elements being extremely basic, no alternate weapons not attached to skills, clearly important story details relegated to endgame sidequests instead of being given proper time to fit into the story) that probably mostly stem from it being put together by MMO devs and being rushed out at least a year early
you shouldnt take these threads seriously because they're generally just spam between 3-5 schizos from /ffg/

>>739077069
You sound like a total schizo

>>739071360
They didn't have the balls to take it up to 5 niggas. This is the real reason FF died

>>739077105
the problem is that the more weeb FFs made under sakaguchi had restraint and decent pacing, the ones made since he left do not

>>739071360
i tried ff16 demo the other day. its so fucking shit, its unreal. you just push one button the entire time. the big summons fight as weird QTE style things. you just have to do some weird rail shooter fight as a pheonix and QTE to dodge for cinematic effect, but it takes like10 minutes doing the same thing over and over. its so fucking boring. i cant see how anyone tested this and said 'perfect'. demo ends shortly after, but i was quitting the minute it ended either way. it was that bad and it apparently has those fights all throughout the game. just boring shit that is pure filler. should have been a 2 min cinematic and done.

it also has swearing in it. im not some puritan, but having fantasy characters saying fuck and modern crude language pulls me right out of the political fantasy story.

the other issue with modern final fantasys is the uncanny valley feel their realistic 3d has. they look really fucking weird, like the japanese cosplayers that tape their eyes up and try to look like anime characters. just weird looking, but in 3d. its not quite anime look but not stylized in any way. just strange looking. think its off putting for most people.

>>739071360
Nomura
Enix was doomed the moment they bought Square and didn't fire him on the spot

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>>739077314
They have their hands in too many baskets and operate as cheaply as possible, so they will never die.
Consequently, they will also never be as great as they once were as a result.

>>739077368
I'm calling this sperg weird because he's spreging out at me about E33 when I have done nothing but tell him I like it. I did accurately call him out as the same retard who does this in E33 threads though.

>>739077372
>you are calling me a 7R shill who refuses to say anything bad about the game
No, that's someone else. I accurately called you out as the E33 shillbot who does this same playbook for E33.
Reminder once again, I liked E33.

>>739077408
I'm not. That's the thing. Apparently I have activated the E33 shillbots by saying I liked it.

>>739077491
The schizo is the guy sperging out at me about E33.

>>739077532
>it also has swearing in it. im not some puritan, but having fantasy characters saying fuck and modern crude language pulls me right out of the political fantasy story.
stop acting like a retard

The worst thing for a "mid game" is to be timed exclusive, imagine if RE9 or Monster Hunter Wilds(two mid titles that failed to sell copies after honeymoon phase was over) were PS5 time exclusive, nobody would buy that shit six or one year later on PC because its already known as a shit product, that's why CAPCOM is smarter to sell mid games at all platforms at same time so they can sustain their company just for hype.

>>739071360
exclusive
ff7 remake story changes turned people off from rebirth.
ff16 reviews were mediocre (80s on metacritic) and the story pacing was poor, same with the hack and slash combat which did not suit itself for a 40+hour long game. Theres a reason why hack and slash games are 10-20hours max.

>>739077192
>the gameplay isn't too shabby
it is though. It's actually baffling how they dropped the ball on the gameplay this hard. No level design or exploration, no difficulty, no RPG elements, no combat depth.

>>739077391
Yeah, I can enjoy old FFs and some newer ones. Turn based games can be fun and action games can be fun. I did wish FF16 picked a lane instead of being a little bit RPG and a little bit action game. It could've used a few more options in combat, but I was also annoyed when it seemed like an action game and then gave me equipment for 10 more defence or whatever.

>>739077581
you should do some self-reflecting, look at your behavior lmao

>>739077789
The E33 shillbot who is running defense for E33 when it wasn't even being attacked is the one who needs to do some self reflecting.

>>739077663
No, I agree with that anon. Type-0 managed to have a way darker story than XVI without a single F bomb.

>>739077532
>the big summons fight as weird QTE style things
In the final game they tied it to the story. Basically, the more accustomed the character in game becomes to their Eikon form, the less clunky and basic their moveset and actions become.

>>739077858
whatever you say loonytroon

>>739077858
blud got mindbroken, buckbroken, and raped by both E33 and one E33chad. kek

>>739077532
The first couple fights between two giant monsters are weird minigames. There's the shooter like you said, and one that's trying to be a Godzilla game. They eventually play much more like the normal combat with a few moves changed out.
If you didn't like the normal combat, you won't like those either, but they stop doing rail shooter sections pretty quick.

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>>739071360
I don't care
I enjoyed both
and I enjoy the butthurt they cause ;)

>>739071360
budgets too big, playerbase isn't what it was in the 90's/00's.
SE still has some soul left in it's AA titles but they refuse to really promote any of them to try and grow a newer fanbase.

>>739077143
>B. lost Uematsu
That honestly could have been mitigated. They had a strong fucking cast of musicians and ride-or-die contracts. Mitsuda, Hamauzu, Junya Nakano, Naoshi Mizuta, etc
XIII may be shit in many ways but the OST was not one of them; SaGa Frontier II may sound different from every game in the franchise but going with his own style rather than mimicking Itoken. Threads of Fate has a musical style that wouldn't fit in every game but the strong melodies and leitmotifs showed that Nakano could have been an asset
There's underutilized people at Square too like Yamazaki.

They could have made some shit work. But they lost or drove off nearly every person Uematsu collabed with or brought on board. It's fucking insane. I want to go back in time and crush Wada's nuts.

>>739077920
I enjoyed them both too. Much better direction than 13/15.

>>739077875
.hack//G.U. had better kaiju fights than XVI with zero QTE. I mean what I said, and this is not intended as a shitpost.

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>>739077920
I enjoy XV more than 7R and XVI, and some people are butthurt by this and call me barry

>>739078027
Man XVI must be insufferable if we're comparing those segments from G.U. to it.

>>739078179
This fight takes 30 minutes. Don't watch the whole thing. Just skip here and there and see what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQwGWdOGCdY

>>739075670
XII had decent vibes and world but the combat was abysmal and the story wasn't that great. It bored most people to tears because Vaan sucks and gambits basically make the game play itself. The writing is also pretty dry and the characters aside from maybe Balthier aren't that endearing.

>>739078282
it's a shitty single player mmo

>>739078172
He specifically likes FF15 so much he sees any compliment towards another FF game as a threat to his cherished one and only, and has a public meltdown. Maybe some people mistakenly assume all praise of FF15 comes from him. There certainly aren't many other people who would praise it. Still, there's a difference between thinking that there's games worse than FF15 and thinking it's a flawless masterpiece everything else fails to even match.

>>739078319
no it's a RTWP RPG except with the shittiest RTWP combat in existence and nothing outside of the combat. If it was a single-player mmo it would at least have more interesting abilities.

>>739078254
I see those as a few different fights, even switching gameplay styles at one point so you're not attacking him, you're running towards him. It is sometimes excessive to have the Ifrit vs Titan fight cover that much, but by the end of the game, I wished you played as Ifrit more, not less.

>>739077920
You must love Dustborn and Forspoken too.

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>>739078428
Nah, I wouldn't call XV anywhere close to a masterpiece. Even if the combat was better and the story wasn't half-assed, I'd still have a ton to complain about. I just prefer FF games that focus on giving you freedom to explore rather than being a linear climactic slop.

>>739078741
The important thing is we can both agree we aren't mad about people calling either remake or rebirth shit. In fact we like it because those people are mad and we aren't. And we're not like Barry.

>>739078172
XV is just a wasted opportunity. It should've been better than it was. Stranger of Paradise was the XV we should've gotten.

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>>739071360
Serious question, has any game ever met square's expectations?

>>739078548
I genuinely thought Ifrit by the end was more fun to actually control than Clive.

Rebirth was good, but sales were brought down by Remake. Both because Remake was so ass it made people expect Rebirth to be ass, and also direct sequels in any medium basically always make less because people who might enjoy it don't want the homework of going through the first one. I actually enjoyed Rebirth quite a bit but I never would have played it if I wasn't trying to maintain my status as "guy who plays every FF." 16 just wasn't very good.

>>739078548
>he thinks mmos are good or interesting
lmao fucking idiot

>>739074048
I think you can actually ignore most of the towers if you really wanted. The first one is mandatory, though. As far as I'm aware, most of the towers aren't really mandatory to progress, and very little is locked behind them.

>>739078890
FFXIV. But they made a mistake and started moving the mmo team around with their restructuring without realizing mmo devs are only good at making mmos.

>>739078890
Square? Yes. Squinx? No. Spirits Within was a mistake.

>>739071360
I'm playing FF7 Rebirth right now - just finished Gongaga village - and while it's not bad, it does feel kinda bloated and directionless at times. I don't think this game really benefited compared to FF7 Remake from being made open world. There are a lot of side quests and things to do, but almost none of them feel like they're even remotely related to the main plot or characters, nor do they really feel like they mix in cleanly as part of the world. They almost all feel just like after-the-fact add-ons stapled onto the main game. I also wish they would cool it with the minigame spam, too. I expect Gold Saucer to have a bunch of them because of what that place is, but I don't need to have minigames shoved into every chapter. What could have been a neat change in pace is starting to be an annoyance.

>>739079054
Spirits Within was almost salvation. If that shit flopped harder than it did, the merger would have never happened.

>>739071817
This, Squeenix is hilariously terrible at making action combat.

>>739079101
>The side stuff feels like side stuff and not main story
Did you feel like breeding a gold chocobo to get KotR was lore important back in the day?
>There as SO many minigames!
And somehow less than OG FF7

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>>739071360
>What went so wrong?
Rebirth was PS5 exclusive and then it turned out it simply was never gonna be a big seller both as a middle game and lacking the COVID boost the first game got. And 16 basically abandoning everything but crystals/summons turns out to have not attracted anyone new to the series nor did it appeal all that much to long-term fans, while also suffering the exclusivity issue at first.

Final Fantasy simply doesn't have the staying power it used to have because of the gigantic gap between major releases, and on top of that the series has become so afraid of tradition in favor of experimentation per game, even if building upon the blocks of its past, that you've got a gigantic opinion split that's becoming arguably worse than Sonic in some regards. This game's an action game, this game's a little more traditional, oh this one is DMC lite! What did they think would happen at this rate?

>>739079262
Lol Barry coming in hot with the copes

>>739079294
>Final Fantasy simply doesn't have the staying power it used to have because of the gigantic gap between major releases, and on top of that the series has become so afraid of tradition in favor of experimentation per game
These are the biggest factors, as well as serialisation. It's intimidating to look at Rebirth and know you have to buy and play a whole other JRPG first. (TWO, really, because you should've played the original before Remake)

>>739071360
I will be happy with Aerith in part 3.

>>739079434
Three. Crisis Core as well.

>>739075152
>>739079025
>>739079262
I see how this works

>>739079262
What would be a valid criticism of 7R?

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>>739071360
The fact that Square didn't take the guy who made Pitioss ruins in FFXV and immediately make him chief level designer in every game going forward just proves they're retarded.

>>739079434
The games are more or less designed to be played without any prior experience with the series. The player doesn't REALLY need to know anything that Cloud, the primary player character, doesn't. If Cloud doesn't understand something, then it's okay for the player to not understand either.

>>739079468
YEP. And if you wanted to be thorough, a really crappy movie too. It's quite blind on SE's part. We used to have a new, different FF game every year or two. Now it's 5 and you have to have played their back catalogue to know what's happening. They started this shit with Retardo Nomura's wacky Nova Crystalis bullshit, and for some reason never stopped trying to force it to work.

>>739079570
Funny, I remember someone saying they didn't like the story and they got a lot of shit because it was on them to have researched the lore better

>>739079570
>The games are more or less designed to be played without any prior experience with the series. The player doesn't REALLY need to know anything that Cloud, the primary player character, doesn't. If Cloud doesn't understand something, then it's okay for the player to not understand either.
I absolutely categorically disagree. The impact of the events of the Shinra towers and City of the Ancients make very little sense in Remake/Rebirth without context from the original FF7. If it's all about defying fate, you have to know the fate they were defying. The ending of Rebirth was enough of a 'what just happened' WITH context. That shit'd be infuriating without knowing the original events.

>>739076413
>worst FF game
As long as XIII exists I can't imagine Squeenix being able to deliver a bigger turd to be more deserving of that title.

>>739079596
Everyone wants that MCU money. If you can trap people in the never ending "you NEED to see the last 10 things to enjoy this thing AND get hyped for next thing" you're set for life. But they were retarded to think you could somehow turn a 35 hour jrpg that had an ending already into an endless multiverse ip.
But that wont stop them trying.

>>739079468
If you want to understand absolutely everything, you'd also suffer through Dirge of Cerberus to get who face diaper man is.
Remake works fine as the first Final Fantasy game you ever play. It has vague allusions to some characters wanting shit from FF7 to happen again, but you don't have to have actually played FF7 to get what they want, and the audience self-insert doesn't know what the fuck that means.

SquareEnix and anyone else who mutters
>X did not meet our expectations
should hire someone to hold a giant sign saying
>Then you shouldn't have taken console exclusivity bribes, censored or 'localized for modern Western tastes" in a matter to cater to social media permanently offended types, loaded it with Denuvo at massive cost, or otherwise fucked around
and then punch them in the dick.

>>739079732
as much as i hate XIII i legit think XVI is even worse.

>>739079768
MCU crashed and burned too
The only movieverse that isn't dragging it's corpse through the dirt is ironically the stupid movies about godzilla and king kong.

>>739079713
But Cloud doesn't know what fate they're defying either. He only sees vague glimpses. Why does the player need to have omniscient knowledge that the characters lack? How many stories actively require the reader/watcher/player to know everything about the universe beforehand?

The characters are confused. Isn't it more immersive for the player to be confused along with them? Hypothetically, let's say that the original FF7 and Compilation didn't exist. Let's say that Remake was the very first game in the series. Would you still be making these complaints? Would you be bitching about how the games suck because they don't give you all the answers from the outset? Would you prefer that the games told the player everything that's going one while keeping the characters in the dark for three whole games?

>>739079840
So in other words... there's really no reason everyone shouldn't buy a copy of Rebirth right now? That's great news!
Anything they should be concerned about, at all? Or should they go ahead and buy with confidence?

>>739071360
>What went so wrong?
they stopped making decent games right around the time they merged squaresoft with enix

>>739079732
I still believe XIII had the potential to be fixed. I don't know how, I'm not a dev but that's SE's job to figure out in the upcoming remaster.

>>739079570
The entire game is written more like an expansion on 7 than being a standalone plot, frankly. Twists and reveals are tossed out way earlier than they should be (especially in the english localization), because the devs explicitly thought pop culture osmosis in the gaming industry meant they should just put Sephiroth and make the reveals of Cloud's mental instability much, much, much more blatantly in your face. It pretty much triple dives and embellishes on details that have zero context to greater things, and judging by the rate Rebirth was going, "it's okay for Cloud to not know" means a solid chunk of weird shit will still go unexplained entirely if you just take part 3 at face value unless they do a gigantic plot dump.

>>739079963
We've established his criticisms of 7R aren't valid. Any examples of 7R criticisms that would be acceptable?

>>739071360
FF16's tone didn't fit Final Fantasy, and although I like the gameplay, having all your abilities on timers was the wrong choice, I'd prefer individual meters that fill up on melee ala Xenoblade 2, even if it the meters filled up about as fast as the previous timer.
Rebirth is a sequel to a bait and switch that snubbed many fans, some people just wanted the original with a facelift, and not time jannies.

>>739079996
I liked the combat in that game (last one to do turn based), and the OST was also solid, but there's no salvaging that godawful plot and those insufferable characters. The entire game being corridors doesn't help either, though FFX was still playable despite also doing that.

>>739079963
>but actually, it's good the ending to both games is confusing, because then the player is as confused as the characters
No lol that's fucking awful. This is like saying that Macbeth should have been told his prophecies off-stage so the audience was confused by them coming true.

It's ok for cloud to not know what the time jannies are, but it's very retarded that he doesn't try to find out or ask after he's lifted up and floated out of a room by them. He just ignores that it happens.

>>739079987
>there's really no reason everyone shouldn't buy a copy of Rebirth right now?
I specifically said Remake. Not Rebirth.
I'll also make it extra obvious nobody should ever listen to a word you say by saying there's nothing wrong with deciding you don't want Remake.

>>739071360
They keep doing what they want us to want, and what they think zoomies and streamers would like, taking legacy fans for granted
Fuck square
I'm so tired of their shit

>>739071360
They ABANDONED their roots by not doing 4 niggas in a row games.

>>739080131
Let me be blunt: there's no criticism of this game you can make that will stick while he's here. Flaws? Those are intentional strokes of genius. You just didn't get it.
Ask him what he thought of the new Dyne scene. It will be funny, I promise.

>>739080052
I mean regardless of what happens, they're still gonna have to explain everything in the third game anyway. There's no getting around that. Part 1 and 2 both created questions, and part 3 has to answer them. Whether you played the original game or not, the third game is still gonna be answering those questions.

>>739079532
I think there are plenty of valid criticisms, and most of them would probably come back to pacing. From the very idea of turning one game into 3 to specific shit like the Cait Sith section dragging too long. Hell, you can just not like it because you are ride or die for menu combat and that is just your taste. I just think complaints like "The side content is in fact side content" or "There was side content I did not want or have to do, but felt compelled to due to clear icons off my map" are signs of mental illness.

If someone decides you don't like the game, for whatever reason, then no matter how many times you tell them that you liked it, you are still their personal enemy and nothing you can say or do will change their mind. This is the mind of the modern 4chan schizo.

>>739080259
Man they did my tragic nigga Dyne dirty in Rebirth, I don't know how they got the tone of that entire segment so wrong.

>>739073746
I personally think that Remake was a great concept, but the implementation left something to be desired but was overall worthwhile
>Rebirth
Any game, no matter how good, that is a noteworthy sequel that basically requires playing the previous game to completion to really get the most out of it, is going to sell less. Anyone can start with Remake, but nobody is going to start with Rebirth on a whim; they're going to play Remake and then decide to play the sequel . SQEX has been doing this long enough they should expect direct sequels in this style to sell less.

Hell, others do fuck up as well though. Sega getting upset about
>Valkyria Chronicles 4
not selling nearly as well as the sleeper hit that was the later versions including PC, of VC1, is their own stupidity of putting a goddamn 4 on the graphic when it takes place literally at the same time as VC1. However, the 4 means the casually interested player goes
>Oh hey, this looks cool. Oh wait its the 4th one. Hm, the 1st one is on PC here and I played it and had great fun, but where are 2 and 3? Nowhere? Eh, I would probably not get it . I'll put it on my backlog..forever.

>>739075152
>>739080301
Not sure that it works that way but OK

>>739075363
Evidently true.

>>739079934
This man is clearly delusional.

>>739080115
XIII and X have totally different structures. XIII's problem isn't really the combat, it's that you're stuck with only two party members for half the game. The combat gets repetitive and doesn't let you do anything creative, which makes the whole thing way too tedious. And the linear hallway maps just make it worse. By the time you finally reach Gran Pulse and get all six party members, full customization, and a big open map to explore, it's already too late. Not everyone has the patience to make it that far, and that's exactly why XIII gets so much hate.

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>>739080337
>but nobody is going to start with Rebirth on a whim
That's where you're wrong. Rebirth is the perfect entry point into the Final Fantasy VII universe.

>>739071360
>try to make your classic jrpg action slop
>jrpg fans don't want it
i'm not playing your actionslop dogshit man. if i want to play action jrpgs there are better ones out there, every single star ocean mogs the shit out of any squenix action slop attempt. every single tales game mogs the shit out of them.
i have enough jrpgs to play for eternity, i do not need to keep buying your garbage if you refuse to make what i want

>>739080317
Just call them brown.

>>739075152
>>739080301
>you're mentally ill if you play the optional content in Rebirth and dislike it
Uhhh
Does this apply to any other games are do you only apply this schizo logic when defending these games in particular

>>739079840
I can't even remember from Remake. Do they ever explain who Zack is or that he is Aerith's boyfriend before Rebirth. Like if you don't know who he is the whole thing is going to be even more confusing.

>>739080529
Yeah, the autobattle and the hallways (and the music) are actually the best parts of XIII. Which tells you all you need to know.

>>739071360
If all the whispers turn out to be meaningless and Aerith is still dead in the next game I will be done with square enix. Should have done a 1:1 remake if they wanted that.

>>739080530
>start in the middle of a remake that has had several new entries since
Jesus, they should've locked this retard in a room with kingdom hearts and not let him out.

>>739080224
You could say this since 11 came out though and that was made by the /v/'s highly regarded Squaresoft

>>739080594
uh you're uh meant to be confused
you just gotta wait ten years to find out who that is and how he's travelling through multiple dimensions and back from the dead or whatever
its super interesting not having any idea what the fuck is happening or why

>>739080438
>This man is clearly delusional.
if you think about it XVI is basically just XIII with shittier art direction, worse OST, and even fewer RPG elements.
-both have no exploration
-both have shit story
-both have shit combat
-both have shit supporting cast
-both have shitty stagger systems except in XVI you can't even juggle the big enemies.

>>739080301
Now tell us what you think of the new Dyne scene. I hear your answer will be very funny.

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>>739080637
Nah.

Bad game desing. Hatred for fans. Rabbid shilling from Indians. What didn't go wrong?

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>>739080789
Imagine how good 7R could have been without Nomura the boomer purist holding back Kitase's Wild Ride

>>739080789
You're gonna find people obsessed with the idea that Nomura is holding back 7R from being truly batshit kino, and others who see him as the tardwrangler trying to make it even remotely able to be considered 7 still.

>>739080702
>-both have no exploration
Did you do any of the optional content?
>-both have shit story
Not really. FF16 was a really good tragedy.
>-both have shit combat
DMC lite > autobattle
>-both have shit supporting cast
Dion, his father, the queen, Joshua etc. are all fine.
>-both have shitty stagger systems except in XVI you can't even juggle the big enemies.
works completely differently

16 is a better direction for the series than 13 was.

>>739080337
Sega was stupid to begin with
They were completely lucid about the divide between global vs Japanese fanbases for the franchise and yet still went on to make II, III, and Revolution. Then, after dragging the franchise through the fucking sludge and realizing Japan alone can't carry the series (III) did they try to return to something even remotely grounded and not steeped in school/academy bullshit ten years after it's expiration date. Following this is a comically miserable hype cycle where they legitimately thought grandpas would rise from the grave to play a 10 year old franchise with minimal advertising after being convinced it was dead. I don't know what you can call that, but it wasn't calculated

>>739079262
I haven't played FF7 OG in many years but I do not remember it having this frequency of minigames. For example, In FF7R, when I got to Costa Del Sol, they had a shooting gallery, animal Rocket League, yet more Queen's Blood challenges, etc. and none of these were in the original.

As I remember it, the gold chocobo was much more like endgame side content than these FF7R sidequests, many of which are shoved into your face whether you care to do them or not. And while I would never describe the gold chocobo as "lore important" (i never said anything about lore importance in my post. lore does not have to be "important" to be good.), the gold chocobo did at least feel a bit more like a natural fit into the world than, say, needing Cloud & Red to hunt down Aunt Gertrude's runaway chickens lure them back home using a metal box on a string, or getting regularly teleported into Moogle pocket dimensions where you have to collect a bunch of moogle kids that are throwing bombs at you.

>>739080594
No, Zack is visible near the end but the game usually doesn't pay any attention to him.

>>739080783
He doesn't seem to want to say. I have a feeling I could guess though.

>>739074565
the best way to "translate the overworld" is to just use the overworld dumbfuck, like e33 did
all you achieve by making it open world slop is to make the world 500000 times smaller and full of yellow fucking paint on cliff faces for no discernible lore reason
you cannot make an open world game to scale, you do not invest the time and money into making it and people would get fed up of it because you're just bad at making the environment interesting honestly. what's the only game that has a sense of scale with a world not empty and pointless, outward? literally the only one i can think of that isn't an mmo.
nobody wants chadley and ubisoft towers and the same copy pasted "hidden" cave with a summon you have to flash a torch on and hit a rhythm minigame for.
just look at the chocobo ranch and mithril mines, they are 5 seconds apart in remake in real space. they're 15 seconds apart in ff7 but in overworld space, the scale is much better, nobody would build their fucking farm point blank next to the zolom

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>>739080887
>holding back Kitase's Wild Ride
It's a joint effort. A joint effort where everyone wants the game to be different and also the same. And it accomplishes that, for better or for worse.

>>739071360
what even is final fantasy anymore? it has no identity

>>739080972
>Did you do any of the optional content?
yes i did all of it. There's no exploration. The only maps are either wide open spaces with nothing in them or linear corridors
>Not really. FF16 was a really good tragedy.
if you think FF16 had a good story you're just too retarded to even be worth talking to.
>DMC lite > autobattle
they both suck equally
>Dion, his father, the queen, Joshua etc. are all fine.
Dion is a faggot who does nothing but job. His father is just a retard. The queen is set up as a major antagonist but is just a pathetic bitch who kills herself. Joshua is the blandest character to ever bland and worse, he purposefully avoids Clive for half the game for no good reason.
>works completely differently
yeah XIIIs works better because it lets you actually juggle shit.

>>739081364
>The queen is set up as a major antagonist but is just a pathetic bitch who kills herself.
You've never read a book have you? What was supposed to happen? Was she supposed to turn into some great spider monster or something?

>>739081271
keep reading the reply chain before seething, retard-bro. >>739074764
yes i wish they went that route, but since Remake was already its own game, it made sense to do it the way they did. i would rather have had a real remake made as one single game with an overworld and everything but that ship already sailed

FF7 demakefags are the biggest mouthbreathers on this board.

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>>739080972
I'd only agree if you're comparing it to the first XIII only. But XIII-2 and Lightning Returns do everything far better than XVI does.

>>739080982
Well, the original DID get people to rise from the grave and got a lot of random people who discovered it on Steam (or maybe PS4) to see VC1 for the first time. They
>brought it to Steam and it was a solid port as you can expect given it was a PS3 game with physics-linked to framerate over 60fps et
>priced it at $20
>Added all the DLC and other content in
and people loved it.

Then they came up with a goddamn 4. Almost nobody in the west played 2 at all not because of school shit but because it was PSP + EN only voice over (to fit PSP). Nobody played 3 at all in the West because it was never ported, not even Extra Edition. And then out of fucking nowhere, suddenly they release 4 on PC and modern consoles (points for concurrent PC) use, with a 4 on the name. I said for years they should have just called it.
>Valkyria Chronicles: On The Federation Front
and it would have sold more than it did overnight once people realized it took place at the same time as VC1 but from one of the other factions, Federation instead of Gallia.

Though the bigger issue was they diidn't (and havent') bothered to REMAKE VC2 and VC3 EE for a modern non mobile platform, notably PC. Make a version similar to VC1/VC4 and fix the fuckups along the way, add to the story, add content and you make a game that is easier than a whole new entry entirely but effectively gives you a new full game and people onboard.

>>739074723
The minigames are BAD. The problem is not that minigames exist, it is that they are not fleshed out, designed explicitly to one and done and just fucking dogshit.
The junon march is just copy pasted from the cringe non canon bar dance scene in remake, it takes 5x as long as the original which was unique, fast, and gave more interesting reward options.
Queens blood is bad, the only minigames they put any effort into were queens blood and the fort condor game, but queens blood is just very bad, it is not deep, it is not full of options and continuously scaled throughout the game. It's a really really bad equivalent of previous ff's card games. Esowa from star ocean 6 is leagues better than queens blood, and it was a pretty half assed minigame in design but at least it spanned the entire game, everywhere people played, the superboss fucking plays it, and the minigame scales throughout the whole game not just spam the same cards and same strat forever.
Things like the minecart in rebirth are just objectively a downgrade, they aren't fun minigames, they aren't deep enough to have fun with by sticking a version of them in the gold saucer - like the original gbike was, another minigame remake fucked up hard - all they do is take scenes that previously were 20 seconds long and drag them out to be 5 minutes long mindnumbing shit man.

>>739071360

Short answer? Nothing happened, this is just the limit of the current studio´s capabilities and the result of choices made by management 20 something years ago. It´s not even something all that special, this is just what happens to any cultural product when making money takes precedence over the creative and artistic aspects. Not a single big IP has ever survived it.

>>739081461
Sounds awesome. It's a final fantasy game after all. Rule of cool is supposed to be what drives final fantasy. If you want to pretend you're a literary chin stroker why are you playing videogames and why are you on /v/? Everything that's fun about final fantasy wouldn't be in the games at all if the creators had your attitude.
>Sephiroth should not become a one winged angel... he should turn himself in and be depressed in solitary confinement, reflecting on his sins

>>739076105
>Mostly I just don't think there is much of a FF audience anymore.
Fake, jrpgs are still being made, jrpgs still sell.
This is all just cope and excuses to cover for the fact that squenix are bad, and everyone in charge of any decision making in the company is wildly out of touch and doesn't have a fucking clue about anything to do with games anymore.

>>739081591
How many times do we have to tell you?
It's not SE's fault the minigames are bad, it's your fault for playing them. You're mentally ill.

>>739080789
Damn. I personally think everything Nomura touches is an absolute turd, but Kitase somehow had an even worse idea. What I absolutely despise about FF7R is how this hybrid system manages to be shit as both action and RPG.

>>739081527
Not gonna pretend otherwise: the low quality of 13, especially the piss poor quality of the PC port, served as a major barrier for entry for me. I have not yet beaten 13.

In fact, I remember precisely why I gave up. It was because whenever Lightning and Hope partnered up, Lightning would start saying 'You just have to have hope!' to, Hope, which after several times of making that same shitty pun, dealing with crashes, rewatching cutscenes etc. - nah I noped out. Maybe I'll try and give it more time of day next time, but it was bad.

>>739081461
>What was supposed to happen?
they were supposed to make an actually interesting antagonist.
>You've never read a book have you?
says the guy who unironically think FFXVI has a good story when the game is filled to the brim with plot holes you could drive a truck through, characters behaving in completely nonsensical retarded ways, and ridiculous conveniences, but doesn't have any genuine charm or emotional moments to make up for it. Joshua being alive is probably the single most retarded thing they could have done from a storytelling perspective.

Even Trails games with all of their weeb shit have better storytelling than FFXVI.

>>739076115
>I mean Octopath only hit 5M with 3 games so I don't think that's really the issue
Octopath is cheap, mobile tier budget garbage that they try to charge you 60 dollars for. Are you high?
It is 2026, character sprites on bar with nes sprites are not acceptable. If you aren't going to invest any budget into your game nobody is obligated to buy it man.
And then on top of the bad character sprites and shitty backgrounds - which you know they can do better than because the enemy sprites are drastically better - it's a short as shit game compared to any 90s jrpg. It's literally like 1/3rd of a game in content, but for 60 dollars. It is the epitome of lazy and scam man.

>>739081613
>>Sephiroth should not become a one winged angel... he should turn himself in and be depressed in solitary confinement, reflecting on his sins
kek
why not? that's what would happen in a book, after all. one winged angel? sounds like some stupid videogame shit, and we're very much above that kind of thing

>>739076518
>I don't know what is wrong with me.
You like action slop. You are talking to people who hate adhd action slop and actually like rpg systems and min maxing equipment choices and stats. There's nothing more complicated to it than that.

>>739081271
>Large scale "open world"
>Crams like a dozen biomes, absurd verticality, schizophrenic climates, and three small homeless encampments into a space smaller than a compact city
>The lost, hidden city of the blanks that has been untouched for a thousand years is the equivalent of finding the hidden liquor store on the corner of this alley that sells bootleg movies
Every. Goddamn. Time.

>>739081613
You're allowed to have nuance. She was set up as a very political villain, not a 'I can kamehameha you' villain. Sorry not everything can be a Michael Bay movie anon. It was a well devised tragedy, but I think tragedy is missed on a vast swathe of the audience who have only ever experienced stories that lead to a happy conclusion (traditional comedies). FF16 had plenty of big and cool moments, but it also culminates in one of FF's better told tragedies.

In fact, undercutting the tragedy of X is one of the reasons why X-2 is such slop.

>>739081527
I only played XIII and I did not like it. I even bought XIII-2 and LR on some sale at some point when I bought every FF game on Steam. I even tried playing XIII-2 once, but I literally couldn't play it. It kept trying to resize my screen and then nothing would work. You apparently need a mod even to play the damn game. The deck is just completely stacked against XIII, and I think it deserves the deck being stacked against it too. FF trilogies are cancer.

>>739081773
>Joshua being alive is probably the single most retarded thing they could have done from a storytelling perspective.
They should not have made him the fucking Phoenix then. I mean that is what they are known for. Unless you were going "oh they will subvert my expectations by killing the Phoenix and he will stay dead".

At least when he is killed by god it makes sense why he is gone for good.

>>739081879
True. It sounds like you understand why the new Dyne scene is so shit.

>>739071817
Yup, this. If ff16 has
>4 niggas in a row, with a party of Clive, Joshua, Cid, Leon, Jill, Torgal, throw in one more female character
>An open world to explore
It would have genuinely been based. The cast is extremely strong. The plot isn't even bad. You're just not often given a sufficiently zoomed out view, the RPG system progression is junk, and the gear upgrades are WAY too simplistic. I hear action-heads liked the combat once you unlock all the Eikons and can mix and match skills, but that's just not what I want from my Final Fantasy.

>>739081773
>>739081956
>character embodies the summon that is literally known for reviving/coming back to life
>WHOA WHAT A TWIST HE SURVIVED
>SUCH A BULLSHIT MOVE FROM THE WRITERS
Hahahahaha

>>739081867
You can't beat the higher level Virtual fights in FFVII Rebirth unless you min-max your materia and abuse the system though. I mean it is like VII but with extra steps where you play action as well instead of hit X to attack.

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>>739081718
I don't blame you, and I totally get why a lot of people struggle to finish XIII with everything you just said. I played it back when it first came out on Xbox360 and was honestly blown away by the graphics until I realized how shit the game actually was. But I'll still defend the sequels. They fix pretty much every problem I had with the first game. Well, everything except the story, maybe. But some people like a tragedy story, so that's more about personal taste. Maybe you can give XIII another shot when the remaster comes out.

>>739081718
>which after several times of making that same shitty pun
It's not a pun. You interpreting it as a pun is on you, there are not all that many jokes in ff13, it is not satire, it is not winking at itself being cringe, it is being earnest and genuine. Lightning saying that is not joking
However idk how you had problems with the pc ports. People say they're bad and yet I have never had any issue with them even replaying them over the years. The rain looking worse in 13-2 on pc is literally the singular issue even noticable for any of my plays. No crashes, no window resizings, no issues at all.

>>739071360
Go PisS5, go broke.

>>739081956
The entire crux of Clive's character in the beginning of the game is hunting who killed his brother, only to find out it was him and accept his guilt over it. Except that's rendered pointless by the fact that not only is his brother alive (which we as the audience already know invalidating the emotional weight of what's happening), he just never bothered to lift a finger to help Clive the whole time or even send word that he's alive. Then when he actually sees Clive when they both coincidentally return to Phoenix gate at the same time Joshua literally just ducks Clive for no real reason. then when they eventually reunite halfway through the game Clive doesn't even question where the fuck he's been the whole time. Everything about their relationship just comes off as super weird.

>>739082075
>unless you min-max your materia and abuse the system though
The system is boring and limited though. It is fun to min max in a lot of jrpgs because the system is full of options, an overwhelming number. Remake and rebirth are not, they are extremely limited. All you have to do is compare the equipment totals in ff7 to them, and even more what the equipment actually does in ff7 compared to the kind of effects offered in rebirth.
>all you do is hit x to attack
Oh you're one of those people lol. As if all you do in rebirth isn't the exact same, except your adhd mashing is 1% as effective per button press as any ff7 input, and you have the nice added bonus of having to continually camera snap between every fucking character on the field because, like in every single game in existence, ai controlled party members are at worst useless and detrimental and at best like 10% as effective as actually playing yourself.

>>739082326
These details are forgiveable, imo, because Clive/Joshua delivers so strongly on the "brothers" aesthetic. Games have a HUGE gap, as a medium, in stories about siblings. Romance stories are all over the place, and these are the lowest hanging emotional fruit because they are the simplest relationships. Name 5 other games that really focus on two brothers who love and support each other in the way only siblings do. Could it have been better? Absolutely. Does it still deliver a narrative of value? Yes, definitely.

>>739082157
His name is Hope on purpose, and his mom has the same name as a terrorist organization that killed her. Lightning may not be saying it to be funny, but the writers wanted a story about hope about Hope.

>>739082326
>>739082560
>At age eighteen, his body finally healed from the tragedy of eight years ago, Joshua began to investigate the Night of Flames and the second Eikon of Fire. He delved into books he and the Undying could get their hands on, and to train with his sword again for self-defense. At age 20,[1] the Undying heard of a Branded soldier in employment of Sanbreque seemingly wielding the Blessing of the Phoenix. The other Undying, especially their leader, Cyril, believed Clive could have been the destructive second Eikon of Fire, and wanted to send assassins after him, but Joshua believed something else was afoot and to find the truth.[3]
Joshua as "Margrace".

>Joshua as "Margrace".

>At age 22 Joshua learned of Ultima from the journal of Moss the Chronicler that the Undying managed to procure. Joshua, going by a false identity as Margrace, set off alongside his attendant to find answers to the mysterious god unknown in modern day Valisthea. He knew his mother had conspired with the Empire and was now married to Sylvestre Lesage and the empress, and that Clive was still conscripted as a Branded soldier within the Empire, but he knew he could not reveal himself.

>Joshua's travels eventually took him to the Empire's lands, where he was captured by Benedikta Harman who believed he was the Dominant who killed Phoenix, unaware she had captured Phoenix himself. At the same time, Clive, who had turned his back on the Empire and deserted, infiltrated the Caer Norvent stronghold Joshua was held at alongside Cidolfus Telamon, the Dominant of Ramuh. The commotion they caused allowed Joshua and his attendant to escape, although not before sensing a disturbance that he initially believed was Clive.

Maybe pay attention to the game in future instead of watching TikTok on a second screen. They literally tell you all of this in the game.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Joshua_Rosfield

>>739076353
There are a lot of good freemason games. There is a lot of masonic elements in the souls games as well. That said FFXVI was just a slog to get through and I legit had trouble getting through it from time to time due to the abundanty yet terrible side questing. Whoever decided to put FFXIV progression in an ARPG needs to be slapped repeatedly across the face because it just doesn't work.

>>739082083
>But some people like a tragedy story,
That's me, i love a well executed (very important, misery porn or kill em all for the sake of kill em all sucks) tragedy, and while XIII-2 is like 90% GOOF the ending was great because i had the balls to go through with it and THAT is what solidifies Serah as a true hero and good character, because she gave up on her own "selfish" desire to find Lightning and stuck to her ideals that if she could save the future she had to try, even if it was detrimental to her.

The ending is why her "I don't care" to Caius has weight. Serah is a joke character who walked the talk and XIII-2 is HER story (of getting completely sidetracked and having no fucking idea what she is doing).

Also Cauis laughing at 100% was funny. XIII-2 just has this shitpost vibe to it.

>>739081329
You had a decade of idiots saying final fantasy was anything and everything, always changing, and SE took it as truth. Now we get shitty action slop.