Why no one plays high skill games like RTS, Fightan, old school shooter anymore? It's always moba this, team slop that, 0 skill military shooters etc.
Be more vague please
>>739588368They want us to be retarded helpless cattle.
womenthey are biologically incapable of having the same skill levels as men and when the activists saw the discrepancy they of course assumed it was anything else but biological so they had to force us all to pretend along with them
Games are far more skill expressive today, especially with ranked matchmaking. People who stream their keyboards and mouse movement and screens are still accused of cheating they're so good.
there are intentional limitations such as speed caps and cooldowns put into the game
>>739588368the biggest game as of late is racing, which has some of the highest skill expression out there
because normals don't want to waste their time getting buttraped by sweaty tards. If they did that, their games would die too quickly.This is why most games have SBMM and antismurf to prevent timmy from being violated by Grognard, allowing for a higher disparity between skill floor and ceiling
>>739588368Plenty of people play games that have high skill ceilings; however, a lot of stuff nostalgiafags will hold as the pinnacle of skill is recognized as anti-player bloat these days
What the fuck are you talking aboutAll those games are still being played, AND the new games require more skill on high level than you will ever have because you're too old.
I think a lot of action games nowadays let you express to much skill but the challenge provided by the content doesn’t really necessitate going all out like that. “Punching bag” simulators as some call it. Of course in fighting games this is caused by another problem, which is that a lot of fighting games LOVE adding these new shitty dominant mechanics that people just play around so the most effective way to win is to be a little bitch and it looks lame every time. Sometimes this is part of the game’s core design, other times it’s welded onto it by DLC adding a gimmick character that shouldn’t be in the game. Whatever.
apparently that car soccer game is really hard to master and has a big competitive scene
hey thats my penis
those games dont make money
>>739588368Play Rocket league then. It has the best skill expression and you learn brand new shit even with 10 000 hours
>>739588368>>739588471I think the obsession with game balance is the culprit. In the past devs just did cool shit with a little balancing. Now it seems like all you hear about in gaming discourse is balance. This is even the case in single player games
>>739588790It is hard and on the surface you might think it’s like one of those games with intentionally awful gimmick control schemes (Human Fall Flat, QWOP, etc.) since you’re a car playing soccer but it’s actually quite intuitive all things considered. Like you can dribble a ball as a car.
>>739588962you have never played a single video game if you think you need to put in thousands of hours to get good at any game
>>739589179Counterpoint, Starcraft.
>>739589508for every one game that doesnt fit my description, as you've pointed out, there are 100 games that does
Zoomies need live service multiplayer slop, so they can tell themself that it is someone elses fault how badly their game went.
>>739589179Sorry, i put more effort in this time>thousands of hours to get goodThat's a true statement, not all games require extensive practice to master it.However, if you limit the scope to e-sports/live services titles...Boy i have news for you...
>>739588464>are still accused of cheating they're so good.No, it's because the incentive to cheat has never been higher, combined with the fact that cheats have never been so prevalent.
>>739588968Didn't the expectations also go way up? Back when I played for a bit people expected you to know how to fly in gold.
>>739588447Yet you lose to women.
>>739589781I picked up this game the other day and there's this minigame where you have to fill up as these holes without wasting any pieces you're given with weighted probabilitiesSo, even now and then you get a score ranging from booched, poor, fine, good, excellent and incredibleSo, back in the day, if you did a chain of 3 "masterpieces" (aka, filling these holes without wasting a piece or neglecting it for too long)You'd earn yourself an incredbleI did a chain of 7 masterpieces and only managed to get a measly "good" report.If this was back in the day, i'd be the best player of this particular minigame. Now, i'm just a shitter.Shit's sad.
>>739589770They're literally accused of cheating in games where it's basically impossible.
>>739588464Some of those people actually were cheating though. The streamers especially.
>>739588368>FightanPeople do play them, but all the new ones have lowered both the skill ceiling and floor so much that they might as well just be RPS.
>>739593078Which one? I remember some tranny was playing BF6 and they were not cheating, they just did some retarded aim training and were able to get some sus clips, but otherwise played mediocre for a streamer.
>>739588464Ranked matchmaking is a joke and anyone that takes it seriously is retardedAveraging a win rate above 50% and dumping hours isnt an expression of skill
>>739588368you don't want skill expression, you just want to win by being a top 5% player in a game without MMR
>>739593856You're retarded. Every ranked game I've played there were noticeable differences of elo skills. I could feel the sweat in higher elos and game mechanic knowledge became way more important.
>>739593856Well, it is. Except now you're sweating with the sweaty nerdsYou're only mad because you're not a shining star. You're just another one in a sea of faceless men
Skill expression is a stupid and loaded term used to favor certain skills over others.
>>739594252kek stay mad
>>739588368because 99% of the audience doesn't want to play with the top 10% of "skill" players. as you're all insufferable twats who confuse luck for "skill."
>>739594284Prove me wrong.
>>739594574give an example of skill expression that isn't covered or is unfairly diminished by the term
>>739588368Y'know, I've been spectating players in Deadlock recently, and I've noticed something:The highest skill rank players... suck at deadlock.They're great at headshots, they're great at denying, they have amazing second-to-second gameplay... and absolutely zero map and objective awareness.There seems to be this pattern where people that know the metagame do better and better until suddenly they hit a wall where they just get "out FPS'd" by the high rank snap-aim players.So you have low levels where everyone is shit at everything, medium levels where gunplay is okay and map skills are bad, moderately high levels where gunplay is OK and map skills are good, then high levels where gunplay is crazy but map skills go back down to bad again.I don't have any commentary, just an observation.
>>739594880deadlock is a poorly designed game riding entirely on valve having developed tf2 and dota2 and having good raw technical implementationicefrog is a fucking hack
>>739588368Image is incorrect, it's missing that the arrow should dip back down a little towards the end as the player gets more overpowered bullshit and the gameplay in modern games ends up regressing back to simplistic mechanics because steamrolling it becomes the most effective method. Not just the most effective but also the most encouraged by the game's very design.
>>739595418this but it's describing oldschool RTS
>>739588368Idk, milsim seems to have plenty of skill and is autistic as the mods you use. There's nothing like joining the boys for some guerilla warfare, nobody has GPS and only a handful have radios, navigating by the fully accurately modeled starmap to get into position, corralling your band of Finnish conscripts, Polish alcoholics, and Syrian terrorists in training to successfully complete an ambush.
>>739588368You can express yourself a lot of ways in TF2.I mean a lot.
>>739595287>Isn't it weird how deadlock players--->DEADLOCK FUCKING SUCKS BROI hate to use a high phytoestrogen term, but rent free.
>>739595418you're including rogue lite/like "games" in your assessment, which aren't "skill" based at all, and are just essentially gambling your time for an easy run with the odds of an easy run increasing over time.
>>739595550the phenomenon of uneven skill/knowledge stratification you're describing is a product of the game's completely forced macro timings leading to the game essentially playing itself on the macro level, which itself is a product of a) icefrog being a hack who can't design games wholecloth and b) valve ironically focustesting their games to death and regressing-to-the-mean whatever interesting mechanics they happen to think up or accidentally design via bugsdeadlock's mediocrity lives in my head rent free because it's depressing
>>739595663You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>739594880Larp post
disagree, oldfags just got mad that their skill got summarized into a number that can easily be compared with others and are running into people actually near their skill level all the timeif the games were easier we'd be stomping all the time, but that's not happening
>>739596026what the fuck does that even mean, cunt?
>>739588368Same reason why most games use engagement based matchmaking.A person losing will play and pay less, so they optimize the game so a shitty player will still win close to 50% of the time.
>>739588368These threads are just shitters who peaked like 10-15 years ago who still believe they "got it" while getting nuked by any vidya addicted zoomzoom these days
>>739588368Because high skill implies playing one game for a long time, and unlike 20-30 years ago when you had maybe 10-20 games total at a time, now you have hundreds if not thousands to choose from, so each individual game gets a lot less attention. This also creates a huge disparity between old players who regularly play the game for years and new ones who just started.
>>739588368It didn't disappear you just got old uncDaigo lost btw
>>739588368If it's so easy then why don't you do it?
>>739597417Yeah, he lost. But the old dog put on a hell of a fightWere you not entertained?
high skilled players optimize all their moves"skill expression" is just another buzzword that shit players use so they can use as excuse to not play properly
>>739588368Some mobas have a very high skill ceiling. Just not league.
>>739588368Moba is a high skill genre.It takes a superhuman amount of patience to tolerate picking jungle (the only role that actually plays the game) for multiple games in a row.
.
>>739588368As you get older you care less about 'git gud' and more about having funt. 200elo in AoE2
>>739593224Doc Disresp was caught redhanded aimbottin' but people only care about him hanging out with a 18 year old or w/eGlad someone brought up bf6-0 it's not all braindead shooting. Devs doing questionable shit tho
>>739588368Fighting games are more alive than ever.
>>739588368When you have even one element of your game that scales like left rather than right, you'll have some freak of nature who grinds it until they can play it well enough that every other element of the game basically ceases to exist.Look at how centralizing aim becomes in anything FPS-derived no matter what other bullshit they cram in there or how gimped they make movement. If headshots are real, whoever can land them with perfect consistency has a direct damage buff.Over the years most people decided they'd rather play the same game as their opponent implicitly, driving this kind of design out of favor.It's a shame.
>>739589570>I'm not wrong because I'm a little goalpost moving bitchnta but it's okay to be wrong faget
>>739593041I'd like to know what game you could consider impossible to cheat in. I'm assuming you're aware of DMA and your post was written with that consideration in mind.
>>739588368The left graph never happens, zoomer fuck.
>>739588368Gen Z and A don't want "hard" games anymore. They want friendship games to play with each other.
>>739589508No matter how good you think you are at that game, there's going to be some 7-year-old Korean kid who's got you beat
>>739602592It happens, it's just reversed. Right graph is when you learn the boomer game's unintuitive mechanics.
Because more people realize sinking thousands of hours into a single game is retardedYou could have done literally anything else: played a game where you actually have fun, learned a language, mastered a cooking technique, practiced a guitar song or charted something in a DAW, whateverFar better return on investment than "you're good" compliments years later
>>739602880You're missing the point of why people grind out shoot em ups, or why people play online games for hours on end to get better. The key aspect to these players existing is that they find the game or playerbase fighting back and giving them a challenge no matter how good they get to be the fun part. Just like there are people who learn a language because they like it, or really want to interact with things in their original language, while what you're describing are people who thought they'd reap benefits from it at some point, only to end up miserable after wasting a bunch of time.
>>739603120>end up miserable after wasting a bunch of time.you can say that again, this time add "mmo players" at the start of the sentence
Diminishing returns thanks to sbmm and eomm. If you get good at something but never get better results for it, what was the point of getting good to begin with?
>>739602880>You coulda done other things instead of play that game>Uhhh like play another game>Or not play games at all, idk I'm a mid IQ fuckwit just looking for validation
>>739588368People don't really care about "skill". Your terminally online ass treats games as some sort of e-cock measuring competition, while people just want to have fun. And "high skill" matches are absolutely not fun.
>>739603632For some people, high skill is what brings fun, regardless if they think of themselves as good or not. I've seen more people saying they look for fun that insist on every game being their kind of fun, and these are usuallyy the kinds that >just want to have fun
>>739603706>For some people, high skill is what brings funThese people tend to be highly competitive and play pvp games. A group of people competitive enough to seek challenge in entertainment but not competitive enough to actually fucking compete with other people is pretty small
>>739603947Right, and it's these people that tend to play certain genres that aren't multiplayer-oriented, but still focus on challenge.
>>739597921>(the only role that actually plays the game)>killing camps on a timer and only engaging with the enemy when you wantlmao
>>739588368Those games are challenging and difficult, people don't want to git gud and they don't want to acknowledge that when they lose it's because they weren't good enough.
>>739588368Easy you retarded dick headNiggers like you who fell below the yellow line felt bad, so you forced the line down so you could feel good.NEXT
>>739588464they arent because of patching. if a modern game has unintended tech that requires frame perfect execution it's immediately nerfed for balance reasons. and retard playstyles are buffed because retards need all the help they can get.
>>739588368Bungie released a high skill expression shooter a couple months back and it got ripped to shit and reduced to quad digit playerbase numbersGen Z are too soft for high skill expression. They live for one button control gacha games with bouncy titty cutscenes because they lack the attention span to practice and lack the mental constitution to accept failure as a part of learning/improving
>>739601880And also worse than ever
>>739588368MOBAs pretty much have the highest skill ceiling in gaming.
>>739608463>a genre so mechanically skilless it can be played by a 20 apm mouthbreather>gets humiliated by casual rts players without effortlollmao even
>>739608990>MOBAs are only LOL>APM = SkillYeah, whatever you say, fag boy.
>>739607406This was not an invitation to shill Marathon, troon. No one is playing your garbage.
>>739608463combat flight sims, rather.
