How do you deal with the modern gamer ADHD problem? I couldn't reply to the post in time, so forgive me as I use this self-screencap from another anon (>>739612592) to illustrate the point I'm arguing against.The picture is self-explanatory, and highlights the problem. Good games can now get completely glossed over due to inane reasons, like the lack of a "strong hook". Did the concept of a slow-burn disappear from modern gaming or media? It's particularly concerning since it was about a puzzle game (EMUUROM). A genre which broadly isn't particularly known for high-octane action or instant dopamine buttons.What happened to appreciating slow, introductory segments in games that give the player time to properly immerse themselves? Imagine dropping tunic or nine sols because you don't immediately fight in those games
>how do you deal with ADHDLegal meth mainly
why is my attention so important to you? fuck off you're insane
>>739627069i receive money in exchange for taking it hostage
>>739626920>developers took notice and addressed the issue >now every game is extremely front loaded and completely falls off after 2-3 hours
>>7396269201999https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKSIBj_jB4Ever heard of arcades?
>>739627331that's not even a monkey's paw, that's straight up a better world
>>739626920This isn't a problem unique to games and there's essentially no way to solve it because the solutions require other people to tone down feeding into adhd audiences.the solution to having your game get noticed without a hook is to have it take over algorithms, streaming and forums
>>739627437Get meds please
businesses want money. they find out what people want and then deliver. they also learn what makes people tick and can steer them towards their preferred standards for better output. people are cattle.
>>739627437If only games duration was around 1-3 hours...sigh
>>739627483if a game has only 2-3 hours of interesting gameplay, why would i want the game to sprinkle them over five, or ten, or a hundred times that length instead of just putting it all up front? i am not so starved for games i need to stretch every new title into a month of my life
Oh my fucking god essayfag is back? I thought you died.
I have diagnosed ADHD and id never play a Metroidvania as a genre at all.
>>739626920Everyone in general is less patient now.It's why characters that try to have an "arc," get more shit now compared to before, because by the time they improve or change, by the end or some point later in general, most people have already written them off.
>>739626920>Imagine dropping tunic or nine sols because you don't immediately fight in those gamesFunny you mention this, because Nine Sols is probably my GOTY 2024 but I almost gave up on the demo and full game for this exact reason lol. Yu have slow dialogue, walk and talk and unskippable cutscenes for 15 minutes. I was particularly mad about not being able to skip those parts in the full game when it came out, I was really fuming. I hated xuan xuan (shuanshuan) so much at first but I ended up really enjoying the story, but that's because I was shilled good gameplay and the art was cute enough for me to power through.I know it's petty but this is one of the main reasons I was never able to truly do a restart from the beginning, I only do boss rush challenges or modded stuff. It's the cardinal sin of metroidvanias
>>739626920Social media feeds and the endless deluge of new games and content destroyed people's attention spans.
>>739626920I don't make games for personal profit. I create art. The fewer people have an actual blast the better. Brainlets can stay out.
Hooks and Adhd have nothing to do with each other. Doing or showing something interesting at the beginning of the game or movie can "hook" people that would otherwise walk away from it.I just played paper mario 64 for the first time the other day and the beginning of the game was such a slog I nearly didn't bother with it.(game was a little mediocre on the whole btw,It has that action input turn based rpg which everyone likes and the dialog was a little quirky but power progression was extremely shallow and the music was nothing to write home about. I thought it was worse then Super Mario RPG, maybe ttyd will be better)
>it gets good 50 hours in
The issue is that there’s a million other things out there all competing for that attention. That’s not a problem you can solve as a dev.You can’t hope to grab everyone, especially as an indie dev, so you need something unique that will at least catch some people’s interest. Hence, a hook.Also no game should need hours to get interesting. If the intro isn’t intriguing in some way why is it even there?
>>739626920Sakurai explains it well. It applies both for trailers and game demos. https://youtu.be/-4oPgNbnJCIhttps://youtu.be/PlbwQ_rntCMUnless you're making a VN or have brand recognition behind your back, you should almost never start weak because a negative first impression will kill your sales. I'm often guilty of dropping games early, and only reconsidering my decisions because of friends or even good anons here saying it's worth it to continue. I don't think I have adhd because I can stay focused on tasks for hours on end if I'm really into something. I need to be given reasons to care, is all.
>>739626920the solution is to do your part to foster a culture and inspire others not to be braindead retards who consume multiple media at the same time, jerkoff daily and never doing anything hard, brutally raping their dopamine sensitivity and ability to actually live and enjoy things.
>>739626920>slow-burnI hate this term.
>>739627069the fact that you're getting this defensive over it, shows that you know it is a problem, but you're too lazy/scared to do something about it
>>739628573replace it with "slow buildup" or another term that doesn't trigger your neuroticism in your head then, if you're so smart
>>739626920>emuromrespectfully the game looks like shitTunic and Nine Sols you mentioned can somewhat look appealingVoid Stranger had strong art tooYou can have the most interesting gameplay or puzzle design but many people have a threshold when it comes to art. emurom looks like some low effort shit from ufo 50
No game gets good 20 hours in. It simply doesn't happen.
>>739627904Embarrassing.
>>739626920>How do you deal with the modern gamer ADHD problem?stop frontloading exposition and let me play the god damn game
>>739628784Monster Hunter Freedom Unite on the PSP was that game for me, probably took me even longer than 20 hours to have a solid grasp on the methodical combat and grind gameplay loop. But I was 10 and had much more free time and patience for mistakes, learning, clunky stuff (gathering animations) compared to today. I wouldn't mind some semi-modern MH game with gathering QoL to make it almost instant but keep the slow combat
>>739626920Tell me more about Emuurom. Is it worthwhile or just sort of okay? It sounded like the sort of game I might like but then I saw screens and clips from it and it actually looks hideous.
>It gets good after 100 hoursFuck off. There are more games out than I will ever have time to play. If your game starts out boring but "gets good later". Then delete the crappy start and begin the game with the actual good part.
All games should ship with a speedrun mode that skips all dialog and just gives you markers. If a game isn't fun without dialog, it's not worth playing.
>>739629072You know you can enjoy both arcade games and visual novels right
>>739626920Start with a short gameplay section, then put in your 15 minute slow-burn dialogue-heavy starting village movie section. It's that easy.
>>739629163Visual novels are just shit books
This shit is why so many games start off with flash forwards where you've got a whole bunch of abilities/weapons, more than you know what to do with, and then you have to flash back to when you don't have anything.
>>739629221>books>but with images and music to enhance atmosphere and immersionA good VN could mog a novel of the same plot, it's just that the medium pretty much only has dogshit writers. (Which is an universal problem across all mediums today, not just VNs)
>>739629163NTA but visual novels aren't games.>>739629072i agree, at least a game should never have walk and talk sections or other shit that just waste your time. cutscenes can be skipped and dialogue mashed through quickly at least, generally.though RE4 Remake had a skip button for walk and talk sections, so I guess everyone besides capcom who makes yappy games is kinda retarded and hates videogames
>>739626920I don't think this is bait, but I believe you misunderstood the argument that screenshot is making. It's not necessarily about the hook or ADHD but the game being interesting. I don't know what your standards are but looking at the store page of the game you'd have to convince me really hard to make me give this game a try.
>>739626920>many players will refund the gamenot my problem retard. if you can't into my game, you can leave
>>739629397ofc a guy who thinks he cares or knows about writing so much needs pictures and music while reading
>>739629072Take your ADD meds I beg you
>>739626920>What happened to appreciating slow, introductory segments in games that give the player time to properly immerse themselves?Hopefully dead and gone? They were always a product of 00s faggotry and obsession with chasing movie qualities, which only existed because journos got sad when their disapproving fathers and girls rejecting them at bars saw vidya as a subpar medium. I'd love for them to be gone. If it's zoomer ADHD that gets us back to interesting gameplay right from the start, so be it. Good job, zoomers.
>>739628739It's not my job to replace your words with other ones that aren't gay. That's on you.
>>739629532>no, visuals and music do not enhance the experienceFuck off, pseud.
>>739626920Never played that puzzle game of yours, but I feel like the solution is simple.Just don't allow the player to get stuck early-on.Metroidvanias get away with it by having multiple paths, if you're playing SOTN and you can't get past a boss, you can simply walk some other direction until you can get strong enough to defeat it.Puzzle games, on the other hand, they don't work like that. There's no stats you can increase or items you can unlock that'll make a puzzle easier.The Witness (which I've also never played) gets away with it by having multiple puzzle-paths with puzzles of varying difficulties you can go through, but still, there's no guarantee. I guess it might just be an inherent problem of puzzle games in general.
>>739626920>What happened to appreciating slow, introductory segments in games that give the player time to properly immerse themselves?These were introduced by shit devs in the 90s and later times who knew they could get away with being boring as fuck because you bought a game for a PC or a console you were stuck with it.
>>739629564>shielding your ego by pretending lies are truthslmao
self-inserting faggots are truly the cancer
>>739626920This character design is more repulsive than anything else.To answer your question, you can have a strong hook and also slow-burn progression. They aren't mutually exclusive.
>>739629648You didn't even make an argument in the first place. Of course, being able to see the environment is better than words. No amount of words can match up to a good picture. Of course being able to see the characters and hear them is better than just reading the dialogue. Of course music enhances the experience, that's why every single visual medium adds music to it except when it wants to be eerie.You're just a retard.
>>739629635games that require players to use their own brain and judgement generally filter people, I agree with thatnot even just in terms of puzzling. people <25 get filtered by SM64 hard, because they have never learned how to actually interface with a video game.
>>739626920cool game but I got bored instantly
>>739626920>Did the concept of a slow-burn disappear from modern gaming or media?this nigga hasn't watched a show, seen a movie, or played a game in 10 years.>It's particularly concerning since it was about a puzzle game (EMUUROM). A genre which broadly isn't particularly known for high-octane action or instant dopamine buttons.I'm not going to look the game up so I'm not making a direct criticism of the game but tetris is a puzzle game and is immediately engaging. jigsaw puzzles are immediately engaging. baba is you is pretty immediately engaging.
>>739626920Tunic, Animal Well and Void Stranger looked better, played better and had stronger beginnings so to speak. I'm glad emuurom shills got exposed and turned silent
>>739629720okay then, I'll actually engage with you, since you seem to be unironically serious.do you not have active imagination? serious question
>>739626920Is this why I can't stand more than fifteen minutes of a JRPG
>>739629931Yes, this is why. Jrpgs especially are guilty of this
>>739629931no, that's because you lack the samurai spirit
>>739629808>this nigga hasn't watched a show, seen a movie, or played a game in 10 yearsNTA, but the TV shows DARK and 1899 are comparatively unpopular, despite being fantastic, because the average normie can't be fucked to actually think along and be patient with media>>739630081no it's because they are generally boring and mainly get respect for the presentation
>>739629524>>739629703This looks very autistic, not meme autistic, but uillillillia autistic. (also transexualesque)
>>739629524PFFFFFFTAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
>>739629013I’m playing it currently. The good: It’s an intriguing puzzle-platformer, I appreciate that the few "bosses" I’ve encountered don’t shoehorn in combat and are more like capstone puzzles. The Mystery Shit™ has my attention though I’ve only scratched the surface. Very very little plot before you’re set loose. Good for collection autists. It must be doing something right because despite the following list of grievances it kept me up all night.The Bad: If you are not at least a little autistic you’ll probably bounce off of it. I’m getting the feeling it’s not even going to be possible to beat the game if you aren’t prodding every corner for 100% completion. There's a lot of weird tedium in the scanning (e.g. to get everything in some rooms you need to scan a flower in each of its FOUR stages), and many MANY things will have you activating the soft reset function, which makes it annoying as hell that you have to mash through the title screen every time. Fuck salmon and fuck bears.
>>739626920You make games for people who appreciate video games rather than for those who simply need to be entertained by anything.
>>739630527most homosexual post i've seen all day
>>739626920there's only two rules you have to followHave good art, sound, and controls so it's enjoyable to be in the gameNever take control away from the player for the first few hours. No cutscenes, long introductions, or forced tutorials.
>>739629648this nigga would rather read a more than a million words than look at a picture
>>739627331>falls off after 2-3 hoursWhy should games last more than 2-3 hours
>>739630527the realest post i've seen all daydon't listen to irony poisoned and insecure fags like>>739630571
>>739630890just because you are too depressed and dopamine starved to play any game more than 3 hours before you need something "new", doesn't mean everyone is in the same miserable boat as you, thankfully
>>739630931the new most homosexual post i've seen all day
>>739630995that doesn't answer his question at all. what is the virtue to a game being longer than 3 hours? it is the game's job to justify its length
>>739630931Cause you can beat and then refund them t. beated and refunded super hot
>>739626920I don't know and I don't care. Plenty of games don't cater to adhd crowds and are still popular.Devs who fold and cater to low attention span can also deliver some crazy good games.But I could make a game littered with 30min atmospheric walking segments and the only thing that'd matter for these attention deficit fucks is if I had good enough marketing and if their fave streamer played and recommended my game. And boom they'll play that shit no issue and give a positive rating.It's all in the marketing.
>>739631063If I am enjoying it, I would like it to keep going.
>>739631063the question doesn't need to be answered because it presents an inherently dumb and flawed premise
>>739626920>nooooo why don’t people want to play my boring unc slop
>>739626920I can appreciate slow games. I can get engrossed in boomer slop like modded Morrowind purely becuase of role-playing and world building. I will not get engrossed in modern troonslop metriodvanias with the same braindead gameplay and nothing interesting about the world and level design that has only been dumbed down from 90s metriodvania's/platformers.
>>739631189that is, in fact, what everyone is saying. this post is so deeply, incredibly stupid that i actually just went from copacetic to infuriated in like two seconds. kill yourself, you utter moron
>>739630647>being proud of being a nigger who can't even imagine a rotating apple
>>739631301Sorry, didn't expect a simple sentence to trigger you gender dysphoria. I'll be more careful next time.
>>739631301What?
>millenials are now trying to pretend "hooking" your audience and first impressions are some new le zoomer concept because zoomGODS keep shitting on their worthless "slow burn" moviegame garbageLMAOFirst impressions are the key in everything. If you need 20 hours to get to the "good part", you need to hit yourself in the balld HARD then restart from scratch.
>>739631421that doesn't even make sense as an insult! do you literally just have set pattern phrases you repeat? how is it possible to be this fucking retarded and still be up and moving about on your own?
>>739631063Are you a fucking alien that doesn't understand the concept of being entertained or something? >Erm what is the biological benefit to my organism body from playing the Video Game?
>>739627032if you're lucky and it works for you, that is.
>>739631540games aren't inherently entertaining. taking a fun game that's three hours long and stretching it out to one hundred hours does not imply one hundred hours of fun
>>739631491just because bad slow starts in moviegames overlap with your impatience for something that is interesting but doesn't jerk you off instantly, doesn't mean you understand anything that's going on
>>739631616false premise. a game >3 doesnt have to be and really shouldn't be 3 hours of content stretched over a longer time.are you literally only able to think on the basis of dumb ideas you made up and no one else with half a brain would consider a sensible alternative?
>>739631817you're just taking my point and rewording it though
>>739631705Decades of gaming were built on hooking players with good first impressions. Even Zelda games like Link to The Past or Ocarina of time gripped kids with dramatic intros and premise of a classic adventure.
>>739627032>Muh legal methChemically most CNS stimulants are much much closer to coke than meth
The hook is the most important part of anything that has ever been made in history
>>739627032>legal methAs an Adderall user who has also taken oral meth (not deliberately, but such is the nature of the clandestine drug market) I can assure you that these two things are not equivalent and that people who say they are don’t know what they’re talking about.
>>739632189The standard ottoman hookblade has two parts you see.The hook.And the blade.
>>739632102yeah, but one of the various prescription options is just literally methamphetamine. it's prescribed at like 1/1000th the dose you'd get on the streets, but it is still meth
>>739632275Cause it's a joke nigga
>>739632321In an authority on jokes, and that joke sucks. Get better material.
>>739631868it wasn't clear that is what you had in mind. it's sometimes hard to tell wether someone didn't communicate clearly or was just retarded>>739632102oh wow, that makes people getting hooked on it from an early age because they dared to be human in an inhumane system so much better, thanks anon!
>>739626920>hurr adhd>durr immediately fightYour screencap is comparing two puzzle platformers, what the fuck are you even talking about? Now your thread is full of muh gameplay density autists arguing shit that doesn't even apply to your game, and it serves you right.
>>739629524>>739629703These. Emuurom is just an ugly ass game. Animal Well at least tried to have some kind of style, hook and had a big publisher backing it, Emuurom looks like something that'd be completely in line with freeware games from mid-00's and these really were games for an audience that no longer exists. It's no wonder it's not a smash hit.
bump, surprisigly good thread
>>739634418>Animal Well [...] had a big publisher backing itdude
>major case of what would be called ADHD today until 15-ish, no 2 minutes went by without running my mouth, clowning around or otherwise messing any srs biz up>after that suddenly hyperfixating on things I enjoy or "must be done before I can go have fun", and pulling 15+hour runs while forgetting to eatI can't even tell you how or why, just happened
>>739626920There's a difference between slow burn and wasting the player's time.
>>739634994Yes, keep saying it, etc. Doesn't change the fact that he put the game on everyone's map.
>>739631491trvke
>>739636218Bigmode is not a big publisher and an actual big publisher would not have had the same effect as an e-celeb shilling the game on their main channel.
ADHD does not existAnyone I know who ever had it either turned out to be not have it, make it their whole personality or used it as an excuse to justify their shitty behaviour.
>>739637195ok, well, whatever i have caused me to flunk out of college and spend several years struggling to hold a job until i got prescribed ritalin. i don't really care what you call it as long as i can keep getting the meds that let me avoid losing my job
>>739637195retard
>>739632452>In an authority on jokesYou're being demoted to the joke pick/packer.
>>739626920ADHD is only a problem if you need to deal in the real world.
>>739637195Don't forget using it as an excuse to get drugs>>739637307Case in point
>>739637195>I know better than the cumulative work of the DSMKill yourself.
>>739637889>colds aren't real, they're just an excuse to get sudafed
>>739626920Is there a reason you can't start your faggy slow burn with a short combat sequence?
This is fucking embarrassing, OP.
>>739626920Hear, hear, OP. Fucking ADHD riddled Victorians ruining literature with their inane opening hooks. These youngin's minds are so overstimulated from their stick-and-hoops and lead paint that they can't appreciate a good slowburn anymore. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...", "Call me Ishmael." - pure poppycock.
>>739626920You've all trained your minds to be shit.Stop watching Tik-Tok and youtube shorts.Retrain your brain by reading some books.
>>739638525You're embarrassing.
>>739628412>show the actual game>let them playcan't believe this needs to be stated, it's really obvious
>>739626920Metroidbrainias are overrated, autistic, and a little transy.
>>739626920why would i give the benefit of the doubt to a game published by a fat retard who films his wife having sexearn my money.
>>739641069>headcanon
why is every thread that isn't about ecelebs just demanding free marketing on this board? what kind of game gets popular solely by accusing you of having a mental disorder?if you're struggling that hard to make rent, do a sit-in at a place that's hiring until you have a job or have state-sponsored meals.
Emuurom appeals to people who gave Environmental Station Alpha a fair chance and were rewarded.
>>739628656you're a bad person
>>739641764FUCK esa.Why does a game with such dogshit combat and bosses have so many of them?
>>739627331That wasn't to address ADHD gamers, that was for journo reviews because they noticed how they barely play the games when they write the review.
>>739641502Holy meds
>>739626920>boring game is le interestingnah
>>739626920Slow burns when done well are fine. The problem is that the modern video game doesn't deserve the trust and respect to give it that much time investment. If you gave every "slow burn" game the proper playthrough you'd would be wasting thousands of hours of your life on garbage.Also, we have infinitely more options and distractions in the world today. The video game industry still hasn't realized it's not top dog anymore, and is competing for attention with lots of other arenas.
>>739626920>Did the concept of a slow-burn disappear from modern gaming or media?Yes. And it will never get better until social media is eliminated. People will continue to get dumber and attention spans will continue to plummet. The internet must be destroyed and turned back into nothing more than a tool for information and education. If not, things will only keep getting worse.
>>739637195>The opinion of one irrelevant guy
>>739647238>garbage is good because...
