Trannywind

Now let's compare this to skyrim quests in the mages guild:
>participate in a magic lesson at the academy
>take a field trip to a dungeon with fellow students
>during said trip, stumble into a strange magical artifact
>get contacted by some weird organization of mages
>weird shit happens
>school attacked by dragon, archmage dies, you take his place
This is what I remember from 5+ years ago without looking it up. Not only is there much more gameplay to these quests, but there's actually something interesting happening. Every quest individually is trying to be entertaining, but then on top of that you have an overarching plot. You can accuse skyrim of being too cheap, pulpy, of not taking itself seriously enough, but at least it tries to be amusing.

Morrowind writers really thought that they can make non-consequential quests with no gameplay where you go talk to an NPC and ask him to pay magic guild dues, because that in itself contributes a minor element to worldbuilding which should be enough for the player. I don't think it is. I don't think the world is interesting enough to justify boring shit quests

shut up zoomer

>>740229478
This is what butthurt haters actually believe.
Cry more.

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>>740229478
>Trebonius Artorius' Quests
Actually he does tell you to go to Edwinna Elbert if you ask him about the dwarves. While Edwinna doesn't know how the dwarves vanished, all of her quests send you to the dwemer ruins that have the books you need to finish Trebonius' quest. So the game does give you direction in that regard.

>If you look it up in the wiki, you'll find out you need to find three books in three random locations that the game doesn't give you any information about. A nice little "fuck you" to the player to end on a high note. I quit here, I was done with the game.
Guild leader wants you to fuck off so he gives you a seemingly impossible quest. You will eventually solve this one on your own by progressing with the game normally.
I do not like Skyrim approach of forcing you to join the mage's guild.

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>outlander mad

>>740232362
I will if you stop shilling this dogshit game
>>740232552
No matter how much I seethe and whine I'll never be able to reach the level of morrowind fans with their 20 hour essays about why morrowind is actually the bestest game of ever. I would not be half as mad where it not for all the endless whining about later ES games and propaganda coming from morrowind fans. It's a bad game with some charm, hardly a masterpiece as it's often presented

>>740229478
Oh Morrowind, love this game.

You are confusing context of a quest with gameplay of a quest. Morrowind quests might have simple context but their gameplay is more involved because you actually have to navigate there yourself by using directions and exploring. Skyrim quests might have more interesting context, but the gameplay is completely simple and often nonexistent because you are usually just following a quest marker

>>740229478
>If you look it up in the wiki
Why are zoomers like this?

>>740229478
morrowshit quests are all awful
the dungeon level design is awful too
its one of those garbage games that trannies online latched onto because of peer pressure

>>740229478
>lost so hard he had to make a separate thread to cry in
lol

>>740229478
What is up with this forced meme of making Morrowind a tranny game

>>740232261
EVERY FACTION QUEST IS A LIKE A HECKIRINO EPIC SEASON OF STRANGER THINGS WHERE I AM THE MAIN CHARACTER AND I WAS /SOOO/ THERE FOR IT!

>>740229478
Is Morrowind a good RPG

>>740232732
I remember finding one of the tomes this way. I went to check on the wiki, and you are correct, all of the three tomes are in locations where you get sent by Edwinna in her last three quests. The last quests are usually optional, so I must've done only the first.

However, the game doesn't even suggest that you must collect three books, right? So when the headmaster tells you "speak with edwinna" but she doesn't tell you much, you are supposed to intuit that you should perform all of her optional quests, without knowing why. Not as bad as I thought, but still pretty obtuse.

I guess if I didn't find the quests so boring I might've figured it out. I recall the quest of the first tome being underwhelming, you visit this expedition in the dwemer ruins, but there's just a small basement with like one enemy and the quest item. I didn't feel a strong desire to dive into what I thought was optional content after that one.

>>740230153
fpbp

Idk this looks like an obvious bait thread so I just want to say I love Morrowind, it's one of my favorite games of all time and I thank God every day that I'm not a zoomer and thus am physically capable of enjoying games from the 2000s

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>>740235289
>However, the game doesn't even suggest that you must collect three books, right?
That's because the game trusts that the player can put two and two together. You're researching the disappearance of the dwarves, so finding a book that completely in the dwarven language might be important. And when you take this book to Edwinna, she confirms that the book is in dwarven, but laments that there are no more dwarves left alive to translate it. That's when the player goes;
>oh wait! I met the last living dwemer during the main quest! I can just go ask him to translate the book!
That's why I love Trebonius' quest. It actually respects the player's intelligence, and makes you feel like you're doing legit research.

>>740234923
kill yourself tranny

90% of Morrowind are fetch quests in random small dungeons populated by meaningless NPCs who have names to give off the impression the world is populated and alive. That's just a fact, frankly. I think Oblivion had the most daring attempts at giving quests some kind of twist or unique circumstances to make them seem interesting. Like the painted world, it's just go there and kill enemies but the presentation makes it stand out. Morrowind got nothing at all.

>>740229478
Same Jeet that makes the Fallout 3 threads btw

>>740229478
So based.

>>740229478
99% of all quests in morrowind are banal fetch quests, the mages guild aint any different in that regard
idk why it's rarely brought up as as a criticism, because it's without a doubt the worst thing about the game. i really doubt most people have even played it

tldr imagine getting btfo so hard you have to respond to prior threads lmao

>>740234549
I don't like the skyrim quest marker. I agree that fast travel kind of undermines the point of having an open world. I tend to like exploration in games. I like the idea of a game where finding your way is part of the challenge and you have to follow directions and street signs.

But when I played morrowind, the game gave me ambiguous if not outright wrong directions for a quest, and due to the slow walk speed I wasted more than an hour wandering in circles looking for the quest location. I did not find that fun, and seeing how empty the world is kind of ruined my enjoyment of exploring it further. In general it was uncommon for me to stumble into anything interesting when traveling, I did not find a particularly enjoyable challenge in finding my way either. I liked the challenge of orienting myself more in a game like Thief. You get an incomplete map and a compass, but the map isn't large and empty. The cities in morrowind were cool though

Skyrim quests tend to have more combat than Morrowinds. It's not good combat, but I got tired of navigating morrowind a lot sooner than fighting in skyrim, mostly due to the walk speed I guess.
>>740234626
Funny thing is when I started playing, I went all in on the "fuck wikis and guides" thing. The game gave me wrong directions for a quest and I circled around the map for hours before giving in and looking up the location. I have no doubt that many people used to simply abandon games unfinished before guides were a thing.
>>740234923
I'll take a shitty cartoon over "buy me a book", "talk to guy at X location" quests.
>>740235234
Played for a dozen hours and leveled up once or twice.

>>740229478
>dude literally got filtered by the archmage retard who's an idiot telling him to waste his time
>instead of asking other members about the books he goes and asks google
really bro? might as well not even posted

>>740235289
it's not the games fault you're retarded and didn't ask for more info to something that was vague

>>740237238
>can't follow simple directions for a TINY game with some fog
>thinks there's some big conspiracy about fucking directions being told to you wrong
I'm sorry dude, you literally lack the mental capacity to enjoy this game, go play roblox prop hunt or something

>>740235775
My problem was that I did not guess that "talk to edwinna" secretly meant "do her optional quests to progress". It's not a terrible leap I guess, but optional quests by other quest givers didn't give you anything

>>740232261
>time stops
>HALT DRAGONBORN, I AM GANDALF
>YOU HAVE DISTURBED THE TIMELINE
>NO I WILL NOT ELABORATE

>whooaaa so uggh.. lvdo kvno.... ugngnhh... BASED uhh BASED REDPILLED ludvkdvno.......epic...chills..

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>>740232261
>mages guild
>gets contacted by the psijic order
>You are the chosen one for.... reasons
OOooOoH
> You are now the arch mage because you can cast a ward

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>>740237684
>My problem was that I did not guess that "talk to edwinna" secretly meant "do her optional quests to progress".
Thats because you're a zoomer and your video games, smart devices and tiktok have mentally conditioned you to not know how do to anything unless it is clearly pointed out to you to do it

Every generation has its shortfalls and this is yours.

>>740237296
>>740237367
The NPC's tell you jack shit. You're supposed to guess that doing optional quests is actually mandatory for progress
>>740237482
If I told you "north east from the lake" do you expect to find the dungeon north east from the lake or north from the lake? It's north, cause they meant it as "north east from the west coast of the lake"
>>740237706
It's bad but entertaining

>>740237684
To be fair, Edwinna whole shtick is being obsessed with the dwarves. So it's not a logic leap that doing her tasks might lead to you figuring out what happened to the dwarves.

>>740237750
>You are now the arch mage because you can cast a ward
Morrowind does not require you to cast a single spell to become arch mage. You have simple stat checks that block progression. The game can't even tell you what's the required stat to progress cause that would break the fourth wall. Having some artificial wall that doesn't even make sense in universe (how can the quest givers sense my magic stats?) is no better than skyrim. Skyrim at least tries to involve magic in the quest in some way, in morrowind's magic guild you just have to steal, threaten and kill people, as well as fetch potions and books for the grown ups

>>740238496
Idk I just stopped reading whatever you were saying after a sentence or two its bad for your soul to be so negative for attention I will pray for you brother

>>740238496
>The game can't even tell you what's the required stat to progress cause that would break the fourth wall.
except it literally does

>>740229478
Yes, I'm certain you having a meltdown on /v/ will convince people to stop liking Morrowind!

>>740238496
>Morrowind does not require you to cast a single spell to become arch mage.
>You have simple stat checks that block progression.
And tell me, what do you have to do in order to increase those stats?

>>740229478
Why are you so obsessed with Morrowind

>>740229478
You got filtered.

>>740238725
NTA but you could just train the stat up.

>>740238725
>but muh Training muhfugga
Skill getting gud at magic

>>740238938
And you're telling me that a player is going to invest thousands of gold to train a skill, just to not use it? You're crazy. If I use a trainer to get my destruction skill to to, let's say, 75. You bet your ass I'm going to use destruction spells.

>>740239102
That's not what I'm telling you, no. Can you read?

>>740239150
Stop being obtuse. I know what you're implying skill trainers like it's some sort of got ya moment. But like I said, no one is going to waste huge amounts of gold on a skill they are not going to use.

>>740237847
>>740238386
Fair enough. I did not trust the game to make sense, but it did in this case. It wasn't really possible to finish the mages quest without going back to the main quest from what I understand, that also would've tripped me up

>>740239102
Never mind that in-universe being trained means, you know, you were practicing magic with the guy.

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>>740239305
>I know what you're implying skill trainers like it's some sort of got ya moment
No? This is why you have no friends anon you interpret every attempt to converse with you as a personal attack

OP should play Kenshi, it would fry his entire brain like an egg.

>>740229478
It looks like you have absolutely zero problem solving skills, think Skyrim was well written, and are taking it out on the game.
The main character being the center of the universe is bad writing, not good.

>>740238708
I remember the NPC telling me "you need to get better", not the specific level. Do you mean the manual or what?
>>740238715
When I read posts on /v/, if I see a lot of people talking positively about a game that looks fun, I become interested. If I see criticism that sound reasonable, I become less interested. I'd like to make sure that people, at the very least, are less disappointed if they try out morrowind after reading about it on /v/
>>740238725
A good mages guild questline would have magic play a role in its quests is my point. Blocking progression through skill check is the lamest possible thing you can do to ensure only wizards can do it. At a certain point, it's not really clear why the mages guild doesn't have warrior members. The guild apparently never asks of its members any magical services, so why not have thiefs and warriors? They would fit the t>>740238715
asks better

>>740240297
>I remember the NPC telling me "you need to get better", not the specific level.
Nice goalpost move. They tell you what stats and skills they check for in a list. You were expecting to be told "get to destruction 30 to move on" so when they told you "improve at destruction, or alteration, or conjuration" you ignored it.

>>740240297
Progression being blocked by stats you're reasonably only going to have high up if you're actively using magic creates the effect of only someone at least partially dedicated being able to rise in the mage's guild ranks. Skyrim asks you to cast one single basic spell exactly once and then pretty much every problem it presents afterward is solvable with warrior skills same as Morrowind. In effect, it asks much less magic of you.

>>740240297
>it's not really clear why the mages guild doesn't have warrior members
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Order_of_the_Lamp

Skyrim
>Oh Dragonborn I lost that magic ring my father gave to me on his deathbed, it means a lot tgo me and now I cannot find rest knowing I have disappointed my ancestors. I lost it in the Red River mine, if you were to find it and bring it to me I'd be grateful forever
Quest marker appears to Red River mine
>Travel there
>kill 5 enemies
>ring is in a chest
>go back
What the fuck is this shit Todd you son of a bitch?


Morrowind
>Hello Traveller, I lost a magic ring my father gave to me on his deathbed, it means a lot tgo me and now I cannot find rest knowing I have disappointed my ancestors. I lost it in the Red River mine, if you were to find it and bring it to me I'd be grateful forever I lost it in the Red River mine, please go and bring it to me. The Red River mine is near the river that you see when you enter the village of Fethun from the south, near the brown stone between two fallen trees, when you turn south east after coming over the yellow tree, you need to go and ...
>Travel there
>kill 5 enemies
>ring is in a chest
>go back
THIS IS POWERFUL STUFF, GENIUS IMMERSION

>>740241068
why do you larp so hard about a game you clearly haven't played

>>740241068
Add the fact that the top is voiced dialogue delivered by the same female VA you heard do five NPCs in the last three towns you've been to and you've pretty much nailed it.

>>740241068
See >>740238642

>>740241068
Yes, Map markers cause brain damage.

>>740240495
My bad, I meant to write "the game doesn't tell you what's the required stat level to progress". I do remember it telling me which stats I needed to get better at. I didn't like it, it felt like the game didn't want to break immersion by bringing attention to a threshold number but making me guess at it just makes it worse

>>740229478
It's more about direction and exploration that make Morrowind quests good and better than Oblivion and Skyrim. The fact that you are given no quest marker, have to follow your journal, talk to people and figure stuff out yourself, etc. Combined with Morrowinds travel mechanics of no fast travel outside of a fixed fast travel network to civilization, which makes quests that send you out to remote locations feel like a actual adventure. Now combine all that with the fact Morrowind has no compass, so when you do go out and explore, you have no idea where anything is at and have to use vague directions and local map to find what you need.

The fun is in the challenge and lack of direction.

Now, is it always good? No, sometimes the direction are abysmal, and you will end up just looking shit up. Are the quests themselves good? No, alot of them are literal fetch quests, but it's how you interact with them that makes them good.

Well, what about everything else? Is everything else in Morrowind good? Outside of writing, no. The only thing I haven't mentioned yet that Morrowind does better than Oblivion and Skyrim is RPG mechanics like its skills, attributes, lrogression, and leveled zone mechanics. The thing is, these are all things that are easily fixed with mods and are done better in games like Modded Skyrim.

>So what's the point of Morrowind?
Role-playing over power gaming and slow burn questing and exploration.

This entire post is assuming you're playing TES games to their fullest with a bunch of mods. Not vanilla dog shit.

>>740242242
One thing people don't mention about following directions instead of a quest marker is that it makes it more likely you'll bump into other shit on the way. Another dungeon, some hut, a misc quest, etc.

>>740242224
I don't see how having a specific number would make your experience any better. So you can plan out exactly when you'll come back and rank up instead of ranking up the next time you happen to be in the area after you meet the thresholds? I don't get it.

>>740240297
>I remember the NPC telling me "you need to get better", not the specific level.
You can hover over the faction name on your character sheet and a pop-up tells you exactly which skills to train and to what level, but if you didn't figure that out yourself I'm not surprised Morrowind is filtering you so hard.
Unless you're playing the Xbox version, in which case Nigger wtf are you doing.

>>740242406
Yes, I would like to know what the game expects of me when it locks me out of progressing. So that I know when I can come back. But this is not a big deal. What I really would like is for there to be no check and instead I need to learn a spell with high requirements to progress. Or just organically have to use spells when playing the mage quests

>>740243591
You do know what the game expects of you. Raise these skills and these stats. You know roughly how many ranks there are a you know stats and skills are on a 0-100 scale, you should be able to form a realistic guess as to what the game expects of you from this information alone. The thought required to make that guess is part of what's enjoyable about the game.
>What I really would like is for there to be no check and instead I need to learn a spell with high requirements to progress
There's no such thing as a spell with requirements to learn in Morrowind.
>Or just organically have to use spells when playing the mage quests
if you didn't use magic when doing mage's guild quests that's on you.

>>740230153
>>740235334
I take it even you got tired of "New Vegas is a tranny game" spam and are migrating to Morrowind discussion.
Very well, I shall continue to ignore you in TES threads as well.

>>740243423
I missed that, sorry for not noticing every pop up in the game. I'm sure all of the people who like morrowind noticed all the popups, solved all the riddles and never got lost when following directions. As opposed to being unreasonably lenient due to childhood nostalgia, using wikis and mods freely, taking a contrarian opinion to shit on the equally mediocre but more popular games that followed, or I guess just being really really patient.
>>740244320
>guessing arbitrary numbers dreamt up by the developer is my idea of fun
ok
>There's no such thing as a spell with requirements to learn in Morrowind.
I know, my idea of a good mages guild might not be implementable in morrowind's engine. Although I guess asking the player to cast a specific spell succesfully three times in a row is an INT check, you'd also need anti-doping measures though. Still more immersive than the npc reading your stats through laser vision or something.
>if you didn't use magic when doing mage's guild quests that's on you.
Did you use magic to escort an NPC when nothing happened? I don't recall a spell that makes time go faster.

No but really, surely you understand what I mean when I say magic should play a role in the mages guild. Imagine a game where you get a quest to perform some incantation. A youngster was messing around with a book of spells and opened some portal in the backyard and monsters are coming out, so they called the mages guild, and you're assigned to take care of it. This is just a dumb example I made on the spot. But having magic involved in the quests would make it more fun I think

>>740229478
Happening June 7
>story trailer and name reveal, some gameplay details
>The Elder Scrolls VI Sentinel
>King of Hammerfell dies leaving a question of succession between Crown and Forebear princesses
>Empire and Thalmor attempting to incite a proxy war in the region
>Main bad are a lost clan of Dwemer that wake up in the desert and start sending out armies of automatons
>Main story attempts to be more of a political intrigue than an end of the world story, with the player as a character that just got roped into things
>Combat is a focus, trying to simulate physics, weight and momentum
>Vats like hyper focus state for precision strikes in melee and at range
>Mentor system, several characters taking the role of a pupil type follower who's development is influenced by player actions and story decisions
>Core gimmick is a massive proc gen region in the middle of the map, where players are free to explore and anything can happen (some events and items can only be acquired by chance in this area)
>More traditional handcrafted experience is restricted to to the cities, which are content dense and larger than in previous games
>Base and shipbuilding, settlement management, large scale battles and ship combat
>Current release date is 2028, with a massive media campaign planned in the interim

>>740245970
>I have to guess the exact number and not "ok it'll probably be at a roundish number like 20 above the requirement for the last rank"
Skill issue.
>it's not immersive for the NPC to know things about me that I need to look at the stat sheet to know
On the contrary. It's not immersive for NPCs to only be allowed to respond to things they see you do in the real time gameplay. Is it "unimmersive" that everyone can tell your player character is an outlander even when you play a dark elf?
>No but really, surely you understand what I mean when I say magic should play a role in the mages guild.
I understand what you mean. You want to use something the game lists as a "spell" in a situation where the raw mechanical effects of that spell are necessary to continue. I think Morrowind does enough to make you use magic without doing this.
>but I wasn't forced to use magic!
You were forced to use more than Skyrim by virtue of having to actually raise your magic skills to rank up.
>but I don't have to do magic to raise my magic skills!
Training is using magic with the trainer's guidance.
>but I wanted to be forced to use spells specifically in gameplay!
Finally, we arrive at your actual complaint! Can you see how stupid and self inflicted it is now? No, of course not. If you are sent on a questline that only continues when you have these magic skills up to that level, you'll probably want to train magic while on that quest, which means you'll probably be doing magic. You don't join the mage's guild to start focusing on magic, you join the mage's guild when you are playing a character who would reasonably do a lot of magic anyway.

>>740229478
This is frfr no cap
Every time I'm impressed by a quest I do the source command, and it's always a mod.

>>740230153
Why shitskins hate morrowind so much?

>>740229478
>nooooooo tell me how to solve the quest
No.
Get fucked.
I NEED QUEST MARKERS MUMMY.

>>740234923
/thread

>>740235792
you are the tranny nigga you were born after 9/11 and your endocrine system developed after all the microplastics were in everything.

>>740246954
anymore projection you wanna do retarded trannymutt?

>>740229478
Accurate, morrowind quests are absolute dogshit, it's always like
>"You must go to the house of Squint Rabloo, the legendary Blargfflotter!"
>Ask about Squint Rabloo
>"Squint Rabloo? You mean, the legendary Blargflotter? I believe he lives in Balmora!"
>Go to Balmora
>Ask every NPC about Squint Rabloo
>"Squint Rabloo? You mean, the legendary Blargflotter? I believe he lives in Balmora!"
>Every time
>Finally give up on actually engaging with NPCs and just look up where he is on the wiki
Daggerfall did it better.

>>740229478
I am 100% with you, Morrowind quests are DOGSHIT
Still, I don't think it's a bad game since I value the art direction and world building, as well as the power progression. Quests are total shit though

>>740229478
You should play Imperial Cult
>Collect 10 bear asses
>Beg for money
>Repeat each 20 times
It is really creative

>>740246381
>skill issue
When faced with the stat level check I did a decent guess, because as you said it's not too difficult. I found it jarring, you found it fun, that's the difference. In reality the game tells you anyway on a different screen as >>740243423 said.
>It's not immersive for NPCs to only be allowed to respond to things they see you do in the real time gameplay.
In order for something to be believable, it needs to have some plausible in universe explanation. Being able to tell that someone is a foreigner is easy in real life, so it makes sense that it would be for people in the game. However, there's no way for the player to tell the stats of NPCs or enemies. It's perfectly possible if not likely that you never cast magic in the mages guild. So you need to headcanonize a sort of ability to sense precisely a magician's skill by looking at them that mages in morrowind have except for the player. Not very convincing IMO.
>>but I wasn't forced to use magic!
My complaint is that I did not have to use magic, rather than I wasn't forced. Forcing the player to use magic with an artificial if statement is lame. Forcing them to use magic because magic is the only tool that would solve a certain problem is good.

Morrowind has a very artificial wall to prevent a fighter from playing the magic guild quests. If not for an arbitrary if statement, they could easily do it all. So I hate when people claim that the morrowind's mages guild is better than skyrims because of the check. If you're not playing a mage in skyrim, you can simply avoid the mages guild. The check adds nothing to the game.
>You don't join the mage's guild to start focusing on magic, you join the mage's guild when you are playing a character who would reasonably do a lot of magic anyway.
But if in a game you were to have missions that specifically fit a magic user, the mages build is basically the only appropriate place.

>>740246790
It is not even fixable by mods because quest scripting is extremely limited

>>740245970
>I'm sure all of the people who like morrowind noticed all the popups
yes, because we're not retards.

>>740248265
skyrim's popularity is proof that the goyim are cattle and the kikes are right

>>740250290
>being able to guild lead every guild in the game is OK because you can just choose not to
absolutely drooling take. it's called worldbuilding, retard.

>>740252873
If you can play the game in a way that isn't negatively affected by something then being upset about it is retardation. You can't seriously expect the game to prevent you from doing every possible thing that you would find breaks world-building. You're just butthurt other people are playing through all the guild quests on one character

But if there's something deeply wrong about guild leading every guild in a game what might be the reason? And shouldn't that reason be reflected in the game as something other than an artificial check that doesn't reflect the actual experiences and challenges of playing through the quests? How can the world building not be inherently broken if a warrior can beat all the stealth and mage quests, and the only barrier is an if statement?

Congrats OP, you've figured out why Morrowind doesn't crack 1k players on steam despite the constant shilling that it's the best TES and the best RPG ever.
It's a shallow game that gets praised for it's genuinely unique world and a mix of nostalgia and wanting to be part of the "old good, new bad" trend. The gameplay is shit, most quests are shit, and the only advantage it has over Skyrim or Oblivion is occasional complexity or choices (which are still exceedingly rare among the endless fetch quests).

>>740253893
>yes you can trivialize the game by walking over here and picking up an insanely unbalanced weapon within the first five minutes, but you could also... y'know, NOT do that? complaining about that is retardation, since it's OPTIONAL.
the average IQ of Skyrimjobbers plummets every year.

>On Steam
lmao

>>740229478
yeah but the vibes in morrowind are peak tho

>>740254305
>steamchart tranny
most people are not playing on steam, you zoomoid. and the extent that you retards aren't playing it is a function of how fried your neurology is.

>>740254709
obsessed morrowtranny

>>740229478
Guild quests in Oblivion and Skyrim have no depth. They take place in a vacuum and have no impact on the plot or world Morrowinds guild quests all intertwine with each other and the world/plot.

>>740238725
Pay for training. Morrowind’s magic system is totally fucked in regard to how quickly the skills besides alchemy level up.
Unlimited training and functionally infinite money means the skill requirements for guilds are never an issue.

>>740242242
>It's more about direction and exploration that make Morrowind quests good and better
I suppose this applies only applies to quests that feature said exploration

>>740255597
see >>740239102
Also >>740239365 brings up a good point.

>bro i am really good at eating plants
>do you know how to cast any spells
>lol no
The fact that only telvanni requires actually knowing spells is absurd

>>740254305
I'm going to be nice and spoonfeed you this time:
Most people use OpenMW, which is a separate .exe that doesn't need Steam to run.

>>740256273
>Most people use OpenMW
They don’t. Mods aren’t nearly as ubiquitous as terminally online people think.

>>740238496
>Morrowind does not require you to cast a single spell to become arch mage.
One of the devs lamented the fact that Morrowind's quests did little to introduce magic skills. It's something they did better with Oblivion's mages guild quests.

>>740256363
Oblivion does not require you to cast a single spell to become arch mage.

>>740256273
I use MWSE because it still has better mods than OpenMW.

>>740256401
>Oblivion does not require you to cast a single spell to become arch mage.
Incorrect.

But I'm referring to those recommendation quests which give you spells that can be used to help with the quests. Ring of Burden in a well, here's waterbreathing and feather. Convince a guy to reveal information, here's a charm spell. Rogue mage, here's frost shield scrolls to protect you. It's not spoonfed, but you can detect life and dispel the invisibility prank in Bruma.

>>740242224
Maybe I am misremembering, but am fairly certain you can go to your stat screen and a tool tip on the faction will tell you the exact stats.

>>740229478
You know this is the internet right? Why are you trying to have a serious, formal, structured debate on the internet?

>>740257227
>4chan needs to be fast-paced easily digestible "content" all day every day
No thank you.

>>740258185
It's doesn't need to be, but that is the kind of content this website's structure encourages. It's hard to have a formal debate when people are completely anonymous and someone can just samefag to troll you or move the goalposts while pretending to be a different person. Not to mention that your formal structured debate will be completely wiped off the face of the internet in a few days so you can't even reference it later on and you'll just have to start the debate from scratch all over again any time someone brings it up.

>>740255368
>Guild quests in Oblivion and Skyrim have no depth
neither do MWs
they just have bare minimum friction
World of Warcraft (Vanilla) quests btfo all of Morrowinds gameplay design

>>740258653
>It's hard to have a formal debate when people are completely anonymous and someone can just samefag to troll you or move the goalposts while pretending to be a different person.
You just roll with it, or point out/ignore the trolling if it's obvious. If your arguments are solid, it doesn't really matter.
>Not to mention that your formal structured debate will be completely wiped off the face of the internet in a few days so you can't even reference it later on and you'll just have to start the debate from scratch all over again any time someone brings it up.
There are third-party archives out there. I can pull posts from all the way back in 2017 and earlier.
Seriously, just because it's anonymous, doesn't mean it has to be 24/7 shitposting.

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>>740246196

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>>740229478
All of this is true, but morrowposers are programmed to defend every aspect of their sacred cow gayme.

>>740250290
>I found it jarring, you found it fun, that's the difference.
Yeah. I'm wondering what exactly you like stats in video games for if not thinking about problems in stats terms.
>In order for something to be believable, it needs to have some plausible in universe explanation.
The plausible explanation is that no player who isn't going miles out of their way to prove an asinine point about "immersion" will play the mage's guild while going out of their way to never train with or cast in front of any member of the mage's guild. They've seen your casting. They know where you stand. They don't need a mage sense for that.
>Forcing the player to use magic with an artificial if statement is lame. Forcing them to use magic because magic is the only tool that would solve a certain problem is good.
I agree. Though I think Skyrim never does any more than that single artificial if statement and Morrowind is far closer to presenting problems that are best solved with magic than Skyrim is, just by virtue of how many more useful effects there are.
>If you're not playing a mage in skyrim, you can simply avoid the mages guild. The check adds nothing to the game.
Nah. There should be an actual mechanical representation of your lack of commitment to magic, not just you CHOOSING never to visit.

I've played Skyrim way more but Morrowind threads are infinitely better sadly. I wish I liked playing it more honestly.

>>740260767
>Morrowind threads are infinitely better
youd think that until you realize 90% of the lore discussions are all bs relative to the games
especially everything about CHIM

>>740260839
The fact that they have those discussions instead of just talking about porn already makes them infinitely better than most threads I find.

>>740260767
Morrowind threads are endless botposting about the same shit over and over lmao

Aris streams of this were kino

>>740229478
>I PLAYED THROUGH THE WHOLE MAGES GUILD QUESTLINE UNTIL THE LAST QUEST, AND IT FUCKING SUCKED, IT REALLY FUCKING SUCKED
You didnt like the mystery of the dwarves stuff? They have you go around collecting dwarven artifacts to learn more about dwarven things. one of the mages even talks about hearing about an artifact being missing in some ruin and he wishes he could see it. he doesnt give a quest for it he just talks about it. You can actually figure out where that ruin is then go there and find the artifact and bring it back to him and then he will ave new dialog about it.
>>Trebonius Artorius' Quests
>Discover why the dwarves went extinct. I'm not summarizing here, that's the objective you're given.
See this is how i know you are just a low IQ spastic. the whole point of that quest is that the guy giving it to you is an idiot who doesnt know what to do with you. and of course you use a wiki and still somehow miss the point.

>There's nothing to these quests other than traveling to the destination, spending 2-5 minutes on a trivial task with barely any action or anything interesting to see or do.
oh no. the wiki gamer is playing the single player game like an MMO and not enjoying himself! wow im so surprised by such a development!

keep seething though i guess.

>>740260839
>>740260945
TES threads consist of 3 threads.
1. Morrowind threads which are just normal TES threads
2. TES6 and modern Bethesda shit posting threads
3. Modded Skyrim threads which are really only talking about sex mods and posting screenshots and not talking about the game or gameplay at all.

>>740259270
>WoW quests btfo
>WoW quests
I too fucking adore the brilliance of "go here and kill x to collect y item of z quantity" or maybe even "go here and collect x item for me," but WAIT, it could even be "just kill x thing lol"

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>>740246196
>No mention of Ai
I know in my fucking loins Microshit is going to force Todd to add some dumb shit like AI generated quests, voices or whatever.

>>740229478
>>740259270
quests in morrowind serve as actual bread crumbs to get you out in the world which has its own content. WoW quests are basically just time wasters meant to pad sub time where you do some menial task then are expected to "turn it in" for XP and repeat over and over.
The real problem here are people like you who cant tell the difference between an MMO fetch quest and a single player game where the task of the quest is not the point of the quest. It is unironically an IQ issue and morrowind in particular is just one of those games that filters out the low iq morons because they cant get over their stupid assumptions or OCD.

WoW will send you to kill 8 kobolds, and you go and kill the 8 kobolds. there is nothing to do in the area with the kobolds other than kill them. Meanwhile even if all a quest in game like morowind says is to "kill 8 kobolds" the area that quest sends you into is filled with different things to find, killing the kobolds is not the point of the quest, the point is to get you moving through an area that has its own content. For example you go to collect mushrooms for the mages guild, you probably passed 3-4 dungeons that had 10s of thousands of gold worth of loot, multiple townsfolk who talk about local secrets or have small quests to do as well. But instead of looking for all that you treat the game as an MMO and you b-line it to the mushrooms and do that and only that then go turn it in and repeat, like you are playing an MMO.
thats a you issue.

>>740229478
>>740232261
>>740237238
zoomer rages because the morrowind mages guild is realistically full of stuck up people playing politics

jerks off skyrim because they bow before him for being able to cast basic, textbook spells and make him the archmage of their shithole fragment that used to be an entire city
.
.
.
Morrowind deliberately tried to have some sort of underlying theme with each guild and a lot of its quests to add more depth.
The mages guild is meant to be unhelpful and they are meant to be headed by a retard.
Its spelled out that he never should have gotten the position.

>>740261398
and yet each quest line that involves any travel or complexity or a hard miniboss at the end or doing a dungeon (ones better than Morrowinds, usually involving multiple people but some are in soloable caves) all beat Morrowind
Also WoW having better combat than Morrowind just makes the quest design overall betteer. WoW Vanilla doesnt have quest markers either
>>740261837
>WoW will send you to kill 8 kobolds, and you go and kill the 8 kobolds. there is nothing to do in the area with the kobolds other than kill them. Meanwhile even if all a quest in game like morowind says is to "kill 8 kobolds" the area that quest sends you into is filled with different things to find, killing the kobolds is not the point of the quest, the point is to get you moving through an area that has its own content. For example you go to collect mushrooms for the mages guild, you probably passed 3-4 dungeons that had 10s of thousands of gold worth of loot, multiple townsfolk who talk about local secrets or have small quests to do as well. But instead of looking for all that you treat the game as an MMO and you b-line it to the mushrooms and do that and only that then go turn it in and repeat, like you are playing an MMO.
All this is implying is that Morrowind has no power curve
You can solve all your economic woes in morrowind very quickly, and find BIS gear in less than a few hours
In WoW, you can find things that give you long term goals like skill grinds or rare drops you can sell for big gold to get mounts or late game items, as well as just find good loot that can last you days without being endgame as is

>WoWfag discussing any other videogame without bringing up WoW Challenge: Impossible

>>740261221
>>See this is how i know you are just a low IQ spastic. the whole point of that quest is that the guy giving it to you is an idiot who doesnt know what to do with you. and of course you use a wiki and still somehow miss the point.
Youre wrong, to get the books you just have to follow a quest, just a seemingly unrelated one

>>740263461
Literally the first time Im seeing anyone on /v/ bring up WoW in any thread besides WoW/Warcraft 3

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>>740263571
Welcome to your first day on /v/.

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>>740262468
>>Its spelled out that he never should have gotten the position.
How is this interesting?
>oh the guy is incompetent
And? Whats the theme? The resolution? The meaning?

Take Seventh Seal for example
>The theme of The Seventh Seal centers on existential questions about faith, death, and the search for meaning in a plague-ridden world. The film contrasts the knight's struggle with belief and mortality against the squire's atheistic pragmatism and the simple, life-affirming joy of the traveling actors
Where can you see this in Morrowind
The story is treated as a grail in video game writing yet Im not seeing why.

>>740263670
>hOW ih dIs iNtReStIn?
>gibs me da spark notes
>y I gotta look into anything?

>look at dis OTHER thing
>OTHER thing has wikinotes!

First I thought you were pathetic.
Now I think you are pitiful.
Zero ability to interpret anything unless it is literally spoonfed to you as an already digested thought.

You are a infant, incapable of eating solid foods.

>>740263571
ah, young fool, young fool...
you will learn, but the lesson shall be painful

>>740263408
>All this is implying is that Morrowind has no power curve
wtf are you talking about? are you legitimately a retard?

>>740263857
I KNEW IT
I KNEW YOUD DEFLECT INSTEAD OF GIVING AN EXAMPLE
EVERY TIME I CALL YOU NIGS OUT THIS IS YOUR ONLY RESPONSE

so there is nothing? like literally give one example, in the entire game. Im not the one who made the thread btw

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>>740263951
>zoom zoom throws EPIC tantrum over not getting a pre-digested thought thrown his way
lol
>"I KNEW IT"
>"I KNEW YOU WOULDNT CHEW MY FOOD FOR ME!"
>"EVERY TIME I ASK SOMEONE TO THINK FOR ME THEY LAUGH AT ME INSTEAD OF JUST GIVING ME MY THOUGHTS!"

Nigger the point of these games is to PLAY them and experience them.
Not read a fucking wiki and have someone else choose every footstep for you.

>>740263949
Its not a curve, its a ladder. You start out weak, walk up to the ladder, go up one major power spike and boom the game is suddenly easy enough that you can beat Umbra. This isn't even counting shit like the meme exploits, you could remove 80% of the power progression content from Morrowind and you would still be able to beat the game reliably in spite it having mostly deterministic stat based combat

>>740263670
>And? Whats the theme? The resolution?
other guildies talk about it and you are encouraged to challenge him to a duel and kill him to take over the mages guild. You are a wiki gamer who looks up stuff and sees that there is some easter egg tier resolution to his quest but the point is that he is dumb and not a serious person and you end up taking his place.

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>>740264095
ahh yes
you are nigger
play an actually well written game like Deus Ex or Baldurs Gate or New Vegas :^)

>>740264118
>other guildies talk about it and you are encouraged to challenge him to a duel and kill him to take over the mages guild
??? thats not a theme or topic or anything, youre just describing the events that occur as if there's more to it than the original observation being criticized for being shallow.

>>740264175
Oh christ this kid is so stupid he thinks that showing me he clicked to download the files and maybe even launched the game is relevant
>LOOK SEE I HAVE THE FOOD SITTING IN FRONT OF ME
>NOW TELL ME WHAT IT TASTES LIKE
>WHY ISNT ANYONE CHEWING MY FOOD FOR ME?!

>>740264115
Genuinely what the fuck is your point and how did your mental process come up with this from talking about fetch quests in an MMO and a single player game?

>>740264095
>>>"EVERY TIME I ASK SOMEONE TO THINK FOR ME
you were asked to give an example because this is an online argument
see
>>740259487

>>740264175
you are describing games that have easy-to-read wikis that can spoonfeed everything to retarded zoomers.
interesting.
the games are written well enough but based on your behavior I doubt you played them without consulting a wiki on everything.

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>>740249360
Daggerfall be like
>"Go to the town of Godwynsonshire Plantations and find Julien Godwynson."
>fast travel to aforementioned town
>arrive at night, town gates are closed, have to wait for seven hours
>arrested for loitering
>talk to an NPC
>spam click "Julien Godwynson" in their dialogue tree
>"Hmm... I don't believe I know a Julien Godwynson"
>"Hmm... I don't believe I know a Julien Godwynson"
>"Hmm... I don't believe I know a Julien Godwynson"
>"Hmm... I don't believe I know a Julien Godwynson"
>"Julien Godwynson? Why yes, he lives in the house northwest of the Temple of Arkay!"
>arrive at house
>its entirely empty cause this game's a buggy piece of shit

>>740264306
Morrowind quests are just WoW quests but structured with a fancy journal that makes you think its more complex when its actually simpler than WoWs questlins
Morrowind and WoWs world, quest and encounter design is very similar. WoWs is just better

>>740264382
>>you are describing games that have easy-to-read wikis that can spoonfeed everything to retarded zoomers.
literally every game does
>the games are written well enough but based on your behavior I doubt you played them without consulting a wiki on everything.
What
Im not the OP you fucking mongoloid subhuman retard
now give an example or KYS

>>740264316
>THINK FOR ME
>SPOIL THE GAME RIGHT NOW
>FOLLOW MY RULES
no lmao
Jesus said that if you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, but if you teach him to fish you feed him for a lifetime.
But I guess if you try to teach a retard to fish they scream and cry about merely having to hold the rod.

>>740264239
the theme is that the guy is dumb and doesnt know what he is doing and thats why he gave a dumb quest objective like "find disappearance of the dwarves"

>youre just describing the events that occur
yes. when talking to absolute fucking retards who dont understand the THEME of somehting it helps to talk about the events that occur because the events are a part of that theme.

>>740264257
>actual schizophrenia
And from all these niggers
>>740264118
>>740264095
>>740264382
0 examples

>>740264395
>Morrowind quests are just WoW quests
Wrong and also fantastically retarded.
Great discussion bro, thanks.

>>740264447
>literally every game does
clearly not because you managed to fail to read morrowind's. lmao
which is why you came to us, crying and shitting.

>>740264518
>SPOONFEED ME NOW
lol

>>740264484
whats the theme
>this guy is incompetent
>the proof is that he has an act that characterizes him as incompetent
And?
Thats like saying the theme of the main quest is
>Dagoth Ur is a terrorist, see he's terrorizing people, ergo Morrowind is about terrorism

Its fascinating to see a wiki-kid so frustrated over morrowind despite morrowind being well documented and analyzed.
is he illiterate or something?

>>740260727
>Though I think Skyrim never does any more than that single artificial if statement
It doesn't do much, but at the very beginning of the mages guild they make you cast a couple spells. It doesn't prevent warriors from playing through the mages guild though.
>Morrowind is far closer to presenting problems that are best solved with magic than Skyrim is, just by virtue of how many more useful effects there are.
I've not seen that myself, but morrowind certainly has greater potential for problems solvable only through magic. Levitation and teleportation could allow for some puzzles.
>There should be an actual mechanical representation of your lack of commitment to magic, not just you CHOOSING never to visit.
I guess that makes sense. But I think it's a bandaid solution. I guess I find both morrowind and skyrim's mages quests flawed, and I don't think the skill check is a real solution (even if maybe it is better to have it)

Imperial culture doesn't fit Morrowind, but Morrowind is still a backwards shithole that needs someone to drag it forward. That's the goddamn theme, you imbecile. The imperial presence in Morrowind is ineffectual, but someone needs to take the reins because the theocracy already in place is eating itself alive.

>>740264554
Uhh
>fetch quests
>kill NPC quests
>talk to person quests
>deliver item quests

>all set in a large world and involving lots of travel and filler inbetween
>with no quest markers, you have to figure out where stuff is
>often finding secret shit
>in spite Morrowind being 'immersive' both Morrowind and WoW is about solving problems entirely through fighting
???

>>740264625
oh stupid child.
multiple people, if you actually ask about the archmage, and his quests, will TALK to you about him and his quests.

its even written in the wiki :)


>>740264670
the game didn't put in a popup telling him that in big bold text, so obviously its some cryptic secret

>>740263670
This is an extremely pretentious post.

Why would you think every single quest and character needs some deep existential meaning in the sub text for it? The theme is that the current guild leader is not fit for the job and you get to take over the guild. You are literally so fucking stupid you complain that the guy gave you a stupid quest and when someone points out that he gave you a stupid quest becuase he is stupid you start complaining
>what is the deeper meaning though?
The deeper meaning is that you are fucking stupid and pretentious and should stick to playing skyrim with porn mods.

>>740264739
and say nothing of interest? its a lot of words that say nothing.
like this guy is pointing this out
>>740264670
but that has nothing to do with the Archmage in Morrowind, its an unrelated topic to the overarching question - him being an Archmage who sucks at his duties doesn't have any effect on Morrowind, only the mages guild. Ergo it makes no sense to relate the 2

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>>740264715
forgive me if i will not fall into the shamless retardation of arguing over your reductionism.

>>740264739
Remember you are talking to people who couldn't even be fucked to investigate entries in the stat screen.
This is how stupid people are now.

>>740264765
>>
>Why would you think every single quest and character needs some deep existential meaning in the sub text for it?
See youre admitting it
now tell these niggers who are claiming otherwise without giving examples they're the retards
>>740264739
>>740264631
>>740264565
etc
every single person defending Morrowinds 'strengths' in this thread has note actually given a single example or counter argument for a single defense.

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>>740264765
well, there is a deeper meaning in that the archmage is incompetent, regarding the mage guild as a whole.
That as well, ties into a deeper meaning regarding the state of morrowind as a whole.

But you would need to jingle some keys a LOT to spoonfeed it to this retard.

>>740264836
>the words say nothing!
no, based on your responses the problem is that you are INCAPABLE of understanding what they said, so you default to getting mad and thinking its meaningless.

You are a retard programmed to skim text, pick out what is useful to solve a multiple choice question, reinforce your beliefs, and discard the rest.

>>740264890
yeah, pic related

>>740264914
cry more, illiterate retard.
you are the product of public education and it is disgusting to see.

>>740264914
>a single example
an example of what?

>>740264890
>says others cant read
>didnt figure out hes talking to 2 different people even though both pointed it out

>>740229478
This is just embarrassing dude, go drink some water and calm down.

>>740264836
The mage's guild as an organization is not native to Morrowind. It's an arm of Imperial influence. The leader of the Morrowind mage's guild being a moron is reflective of Imperial culture and its ability to adapt to Morrowind. Are you illiterate or do you just click off any page that doesn't list a quest reward when you look around a wiki?

>>740264981
he can't even figure out when "multiple people" are 1 or two people.
just a kid flailing in angry confusion like a pokemon, only hurting himself.

>>740264968
>blablabla
youre talking to other people about what you think was said instead of answering a single question I asked
>>you are the product of public education and it is disgusting to see.
nigger Im MENSA and had richfag education

>>740265015
>>The leader of the Morrowind mage's guild being a moron is reflective of Imperial culture and its ability to adapt to Morrowind.
This is again not true. If I asked you 'how' this is true you would not be able to answer, because there is no rational way in which Imperial Culture has anything to do with it. The second is that it has nothing to do with adapting to Morrowind as this is decided by the mainland Empire. Thirdly the Archmage doesn't do anything and is effectively just a minor hamper on some people in the Mages Guild. At most this is just a reflection of some off screen politics specific to the Mages Guild but those aren't developed here either because this quest is the end of the Guild.

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>>740265083
>literally having a melti because there were too many words
>tries to brag about MENSA and his parents having money
my point is proven
MENSA is a retard trap for autists to siphon money from them, which is why despite qualifying I declined to waste my money.
You are using their BRANDING to try and appear smart.
Private education must, by law, follow the same curriculum as public to qualify for various federal funding and accreditation.
You were taught the same bullshit.

How the fuck does this zoomer even mentally function that he can't run basic analysis on quests to just figure things out? It's a video game bro, not some advanced shit like landing a drone on an asteroid, figuring out complicated international logistics

Do you just need yellow paint everywhere, so you can press the button to receive a dopamine rush? Is that what kind of shallow existence that you have, just being a hairless ape pressing the button for good thing to happen?

Mensa deez nuts you underevolved troglodyte. Darwin weeps in his grave, knowing that he existed 200 years too soon to see his missing link realized.

>>740264971
An actual interesting theme, event, topic or style in the Guild writing in Morrowind.

So far people have actually just been proving that not only is it shallow but most people dont know what actually happened or how themes are interpreted, and instead made completely irrational connections as regarding X->Y while being mad at zoomers or some shit fr fr

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>>740265226
>because there is no rational way in which Imperial Culture has anything to do with it
>the imperial mage in the imperial guild in a foreign land has no connection to imperial culture
wow this kid really can't think at all.
does mensa stand for
Meltdown Everytime Someone Answers?

>>740229478
uh oh melty

>>740265273
Do you want to see my philosophical thesis then? Like cmon nigger whats next

>>740265382
sure I think we all deserve a laugh

>>740264638
>it asks you to cast a couple specific spells
So, it asks you to fulfill an arbitrary if statement (cast this specific spell).
Meanwhile Morrowind's successfully prevents someone with zero magical inclination from being a high up in the mage's guild.
>problems solvable only through magic
Not "only", just "best". "Only" would be stifling of other options like alchemy boosted acrobatics.
>But I think it's a bandaid solution
It's a pretty functional one in my eyes.
I assume because you didn't reply at all about the explanation for the mage's guild knowing your stats, you accept how I've explained it? That's generally how things are supposed to work in an RPG. Later Bethesda games make sure every character tells you when they start paying attention, what they're paying attention to, and when you do the thing they're waiting for, but I think this is unnecessary amounts of clarity, borderline babying the player.

>>740265382
>kid is now trying to brag about being a PHILOSOPHY major
You are now bragging about how well you were instructed by OTHER PEOPLE on HOW TO THINK.
this just gets more and more pathetic.

>>740265367
How does it relate? If it was literally any other culture what would change? What is it a reflection of? If the Mages Guild was changed to all be Morrowind natives and a Morrowind native institution nothing would change.

>>740265226
>the imperial leading an imperial institution has nothing to do with imperial culture
So you are illiterate, got it.

>>740265420
ok gimme a few minutes so I can scramble it so I dont get doxxed
>>740265456
Youre supposed to write your own philosophy in it and discuss it with people nigger

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>>740265491
>spoonfeed me every detail, I cannot possibly reason anything for myself.
OOF and they told this retard he was smart?
must have milked a lot of money from his rich parents

>>740265625
Assuming relations where there aren't any while being unable to coherently describe or state them is usually a sign that there isn't a relation but just the assumption of one.

>>740265491
If it was any other culture they likely wouldn't have the political clout to force an institution like the mage's guild into a place like Vvardenfell.
>If the Mages Guild was changed to all be Morrowind natives and a Morrowind native institution nothing would change.
It likely wouldn't be led by an incompetent, the power structure would be completely different, and they'd be falling apart because of standard dark elf infighting and not Imperial stiffness and politicking.

>>740265578
>Youre supposed to write your own philosophy in it and discuss it with people nigger
link it and lets see how much of it is filled with retardation.
If I see a hint of Hegel I am gonna laugh, long and hard.

>>740265695
I am sure you thought that was very clever when someone else told you it :)

>>740265695
See, the problem with you is perfectly outlined in this very sentence.
This is not your school.
This is not a perfectly open and structured environment where everything is spoonfed to you like a little baby.
Where everything can be looked up and everything can just be handed to you.

You... really have never been properly asked to think about things. Only memorize and recite.
To follow formulas, both in math and thought.

So the moment we ask of you to try and think and reason, you refuse. You shout.
You insist nothing is there.
There is nothing because YOU produced nothing.
You refused to think and got nothing because you did nothing.

>>740265972
Unrelated to everything here but youre unironically retarded

>>740266083
and like a kid on the playground, all he can do is shout: "UR STOOPID!"
says it all

>>740265510
but in what way is it imperial. if it was a corrupt dunmer native in a dunmer native society with the same story it wouldnt mean anything because nothing ties that incompetency to any consequence or context
in fact him existing there helps solve the dwemer mystery

>>740265314
I like that one of the people talk about a thing and that thing actually exists and you can go and get that thing and bring it to them and they will talk more about it. This isnt a quest and the NPC doesnt tell you to go get the thing or help you find it. its just a neat little easter egg. nothing quite like that exists in any of the other games.

>>740266347
>but in what way is it imperial
You can see what happens when Morrowind native mages attempt to have their own magic study institution. That's the Telvanni. The shape of the Mage's Guild in comparison to House Telvanni is a commentary on Imperial vs. native Morrowind culture. The Dark Brotherhood is also used as an Imperial point of contrast for the local Morag Tong, for another example.
A fool leads the Morrowind mage's guild because Imperial culture struggles to remove one who's already in charge no matter how unfit they are. A completely senile old woman is among the highest Telvanni authority because she still wields magic that could tear a man in half if she sneezes wrong. This is a symbol of both cultures.

>>740266775
>A fool leads the Morrowind mage's guild because Imperial culture struggles to remove one who's already in charge no matter how unfit they are
Ain't he Archmage in spite of not wanting to be one?
>Likely promoted to Arch-Mage to remove him from Cyrodiil as he was too powerful
The Archmage actually seems like he'd fit in on some level

>>740266775
You are a bit off anon.
Trebonius retains power for the EXACT same reason as the head of the Telvanni.
He is a powerful battlemage.
He was given his position because he wanted power, he was powerful enough that people couldnt say no, so they found a place to put him where he would do the least damage to the imperial mage's guild as a whole.

>>740261221
>You didnt like the mystery of the dwarves stuff?
That's the last of many, many boring quests, and I quit the game before finishing it because I was tired of morrowind. As other posters earlier in the thread pointed out, the game actually does guide you torwards finding the tomes with optional quests by an NPC who is the dwarven research expert. So it's not actually that obtuse. But one quest can't cancel out all the previous ones
>the wiki gamer is playing the single player game like an MMO and not enjoying himself!
What do MMO's have to do with this? I just think that quests should be enjoyable to play. I just genuinely don't understand the appeal of an escort quest with nothing happening. That's the worst example, and it happens twice, but the other quests are also underwhelming in both the combat they lead to and the writing.
>>740261837
>the task of the quest is not the point of the quest
>For example you go to collect mushrooms for the mages guild, you probably passed 3-4 dungeons that had 10s of thousands of gold worth of loot, multiple townsfolk who talk about local secrets or have small quests to do as well.
So you're saying that the point of going on an awful quest is not the quest itself but to bump into new NPC's that will give you more awful quests? I tend to prefer to visit dungeons when I have a quest to go there. I don't care about gold; the game economy is broken since I get attacked by assasins in expensive armor at random but constant intervals

What's taking the kid so long to produce his epic MENSA level philosophy thesis?

>>740267097
>What do MMO's have to do with this?
for MMOs the real content where you spend the most time is the endgame.
the quests are an obstacle that may or may not have a story, and then you get to the part where you actually have to PLAY the game instead of just going through the motions.
that anon was making a derisive statement on where MMOs have been stuck for a long, long time.

>>740267097
>So you're saying that the point of going on an awful quest is not the quest itself but to bump into new NPC's that will give you more awful quests? I tend to prefer to visit dungeons when I have a quest to go there.
you are actively choosing not to experience the world and are complaining about the idea of being given nudges by quests.
a drone that wants nothing but clear orders and clear payoffs.
no mystery, no exploration, no whimsy, no soul.

>>740267256
>>for MMOs the real content where you spend the most time is the endgame.
Not in Vanilla which is what was being discussed. Most people agree leveling is the main game

>>740239365
Alchemy and enchant both count towards mages guild rank. For the rank of archmage one skill has to be level 70 plus two more at 35 and depending on your race and major skills you can start at 35+ in the other magic skill. Techinically its 100% possible to become archmage without casting a spell or raising any spellcasting skill (albeit far outside of typical gameplay).

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op is right the quests are so ass it’s not even funny

>>740267396
>Not in Vanilla which is what was being discussed
nobody was discussing this "vanilla"
explain.

>>740262468
>zoomer rages because the morrowind mages guild is realistically full of stuck up people playing politics
That's the only thing I liked about it actually
>jerks off skyrim because they bow before him for being able to cast basic, textbook spells and make him the archmage of their shithole fragment that used to be an entire city
I "jerk off" to being given an objective to visit a dungeon, having a decent amount of combat there and potentially seeing the development of some story as a result. I find that more enjoyable than escorting a whatshisname npc without anything happening and having no consequence.

While Mages Guild in Morrowind could have used a bit more of overarching storyline, I still like it solely for the fact that it actually feels like a guild and the contrast to Telvanni as noted in >>740266775 is good worldbuilding. Something like Fighters Guild is a bit more interesting with its
>lets see how long it takes for the player to realize that they’re actually Camonna Tong’s bitch errand boy
thingy, too bad that Fighters Guild is just inherently boring as a faction otherwise.

But then again, Skyrim-style guilds where the entire guild thing gets overtaken by some SUPER URGENT THREAT TO THE WORLD also kind of suck, because I like it when games have more mundane stuff in contrast to the more bombastic and dramatic storytelling. But you could still have some overarching theme that still stays tied to the actual matters of the guild without overtaking it, as seen with Fighters Guild. Oblivion’s Dark Brotherhood is also a pretty good example of that, being 2/3 regular assassination jobs and then the daily grind gets disrupted by drama in the last 1/3.

>>740267468
>seeing the development of some story as a result
>in skyrim
you almost had me there, anon

>>740267139
>What's taking the kid so long
I was sucking on titties until I remembered I can't upload text files to /v/ so I'm shortening shit to fit in a screenshot

>>740267670
kid you could have pasted it to a filesharing website lmao
there are many.
some made SPECIFICALLY for the clear sharing of text

>>740266979
Okay yeah I was slightly reductive. Trebonius is also a powerful mage, he isn't statistically unfit for the position, it's just that nobody who's seen him in action would want him in charge of anything more than a house plant. Not even he wants the role, as you point out, but to Imperials, someone that powerful is either an important piece on the political playing field, or a player himself, which necessitates his position. Meanwhile, there's more than one open and ongoing plot to kill Therana, they're all just kind of stuck trying to find a way to do it while being safely outside the potential blast radius.

>>740246196
I don't think Procgen is a good idea, not after how badly Starfield shat the bed.

>>740256323
Zoomies play Morrowind through OpenMW, which allows the game to run in Android.

>>740267015
>Trebonius retains power for the EXACT same reason as the head of the Telvanni.

Honestly this feels poorly thought out. Why do you duel the leader of the mages guild to the death for their position? It shouldn't work like this either in-universe or from a storytelling perspective.

There is one theme with the guilds that I like though, which is that everyone tells you the Telvanni are a bunch of backstabbing assholes and the MG is the clean option, but the Telvanni questline is actually quite straightforward and honest, whereas the MG questline is mired with dodgy internal politics and people lying and using you.

It unironically feels like people do not understand how to play video games anymore.

>>740268297
I always thought that the duel against Trebonius was solely due to Trebonius’s ego, having nothing to do with regular guild lesdership succession procedures. He sees a new hotshot mage rising up the ranks and takes it personally, thinking that the mofo in question probably aims to take his position, so let’s show him etc.

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idk bra i am a 24 year old zoomie and I loved morrowind and put around 200 hours in on a playthrough when i was recovering from a surgery like 2 summers ago. i can understand a lot of the critique but i think a lot of the aspects of of the game that initially are annoying almost DO add to the immersion in some way after you are used to it and have put some considerable time into a playthrough, although I'm not entirely sure why this is. maybe getting used to the gameplay and worldbuiling/world interaction quirks and mechanics, accurately predicting what you should do next vs being completely lost on what to do at the beginning better simulates an outlander getting his footing in a new country better than just being told exactly what to do, making you feel more connected to your character.

>>740265432
>So, it asks you to fulfill an arbitrary if statement (cast this specific spell).
It's not really an if statement because you're handed the spell at the spot and it's low level, so it lets you through regardless of your character build. You can think of it as a little roleplaying where the game pretends the magic college is an actual magic school and you the player cast one spell to be admitted and one during the first lesson. Then there's no second lesson. The cool thing is you are expected to cast a spell in the mages guild quest, which I think is good.
>Not "only", just "best". "Only" would be stifling of other options like alchemy boosted acrobatics.
That's fine
>I assume because you didn't reply at all about the explanation for the mage's guild knowing your stats, you accept how I've explained it?
I felt like the point was too specific to be worth arguing at length over. Let's say I accept it, it's not too big of a deal. I'm not a very experienced RPG player, but something like "you need high INT to cast a powerful spell" makes a lot of sense to me, while people checking my skills without me performing any action is less intuitive to me.
>>But I think it's a bandaid solution
>It's a pretty functional one in my eyes.
I guess the question is "what matters in a mages guild quest". For you it's that only mages can do it. For me it's that it involves magic in the story/gameplay.

Does it matter if most of my skills might get used rarely? I just want to beat the shit out of things with a big sword so have stuff like armorer or enchant or shit that's rarely getting used

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>>740257129
yeah i can't believe he's complaining about this you can literally see the required stat number for every level of progression for every faction you're apart of from the character screen. niggas really didn't even play this game.

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>>740267732
I was culling it to 1/10th it, that anon was right for bringing up Hegel

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I don't know much about Morrowind but it must be a pretty good game if it can cause this level of midwit meltdown
seriously who the fuck gets this bent out of shape over vidya

>>740269342
>The cool thing is you are expected to cast a spell in the mages guild quest, which I think is good.
I guess I can understand your position, to an extent.
>something like "you need high INT to cast a powerful spell" makes a lot of sense to me, while people checking my skills without me performing any action is less intuitive to me
To me, it's less that they checked my skills without me performing any action and more that the actions I performed already proved my skills. The way it works in Skyrim feels like I picked up a square peg, I see a square hole, and I have to wait for the game to specifically have an NPC talk about a square hole to get an objective to put it in. The game shouldn't only be paying attention to what I do when it has an NPC explicitly say they're paying attention to what I do, it makes it feel like literally everything revolves around the player in a way that makes the writing overall less convincing.
>For you it's that only mages can do it. For me it's that it involves magic in the story/gameplay.
Ideally it'd be both. Though again, the idea of someone who's already committed to the mage's guild not choosing to solve problems presented to him on mage's guild quests with mage's guild skills feels like someone playing contrarian for the sake of it.

>>740269464
If you don't have the balls to actually say it why bother lol
observe:

Most philosophy is inherently overvalued by people who care far too much about learning HOW to think rather than actually thinking.
Rene Descarte's approach of discarding everything and rebuilding via pure logic effectively dismantles most philosophy, including his own meditations in the latter sections, as overly convoluted and ill-applied by most people.
Tradition and religion serve as highly effective tools to encapsulate difficult-to-explain ideas crucial to maintenance of civilization, such that the maintenance can continue without the requirement of in-depth education and understanding.
They are products of a darwinian evolution of testing and generational knowledge and testing.
If knowledge of the why can be preserved it naturally should, but expecting everyone to know the why has proven unfeasible.
And thus tradition and religion has deeply inherent value that should be examined and understood by those who CAN.
It was tradition and religion, in particular non-evangelical Christian religion, that saw the rise of incredible scientists who founded great works, great schools of thought, and the great colleges that stand at the forefront of modern education.
this is just a snippet I typed for the hell of it.

If you really did put in a bunch of Hegel then you deserve to be laughed at.
Hegel largely exists for retards to misunderstand and apply "Hegelian Dialectics"
It is a flawed way of thinking that, as a fundamental base requirement, demands that the thinker take two things and presume them to be complete and utter opposites.
People who do this have an alarming tendency to think in very black and white terms, because they try to dumb down EVERYTHING to a thesis and antithesis.
Such things do not exist in the real world outside of fundamental aspects of physics and very limited and narrow perspectives of things.
My last sentence should say plenty.

>>740270265
>Most philosophy is inherently overvalued by people who care far too much about learning HOW to think rather than actually thinking.
>Rene Descarte's approach of discarding everything and rebuilding via pure logic effectively dismantles most philosophy, including his own meditations in the latter sections, as overly convoluted and ill-applied by most people.
>Tradition and religion serve as highly effective tools to encapsulate difficult-to-explain ideas crucial to maintenance of civilization, such that the maintenance can continue without the requirement of in-depth education and understanding.
>They are products of a darwinian evolution of testing and generational knowledge and testing.
>If knowledge of the why can be preserved it naturally should, but expecting everyone to know the why has proven unfeasible.
>And thus tradition and religion has deeply inherent value that should be examined and understood by those who CAN.
>It was tradition and religion, in particular non-evangelical Christian religion, that saw the rise of incredible scientists who founded great works, great schools of thought, and the great colleges that stand at the forefront of modern education.
>this is just a snippet I typed for the hell of it.
that's just bad pragmatism while shilling conservativism. read more philosophy.

>>740270603
sounds more like you don't want to look at it honestly and just want to handwave it aside :)

>>740270265
Bro read the pic dont be a pussy it actually btfos every single one of your points unironically

>>740270912
cant, DnD time

>>740270603
a bigger rebuttal now that I have time (people doing combat turns):
That is a snippet that isn't even complete bro.
Just because old things have value doesn't mean we have to mindlessly cling to them, but I didn't get around to talking about that because I was going to run out of room.

>740238642
>740241220
>Idk I just stopped reading
Lost by default.
gg ez.
Better luck next time.

Everything people think is bad about Morrowind is actually good.

>>740269364
>Does it matter if most of my skills might get used rarely?
no. consumables and other buffs can bridge the gap between bad builds nad good and even if you dont want to ever use any consumables you just need 1 skill for attack and maybe 1 skill for defence ie longblade and light armor.