To the anons who hate rollslop combat, what action RPG actually has good combat?
grim dawn
Dragon's Dogma
>>745923429Morrowind
dark messiah of might and magic. shame its kind of jank on modern systems. crazy to me that barely anyone has tried iterating on its combat system.
>>745923429Mount & Blade
>>745923429Dark MessiahDragons Dogma
>>745923750also i should make it clear that i dont dislike souls combat, i just also really like dark messiahs combat. contrarian retards hating souls combat is strange to me.
>>745923750This. We need more kinetic, physics based, combat.Also obligatoryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1GLZILJc24
>>745923429YO THIS GAMEPLAY IS BUSSIN
>>745923429Compared to your pic every other game ever made has better combat.Only being slightly hyperbolic.
>>745923429Bannerlord. Also Apparently pic related will be using bannerlords combat system for melee but with lock on
>>745923993>challenge run>complains that it's boring
>>745924185painfully unfunny image
>>745924185Painfully funny image
Monster hunter pre generations and world slop.
>>745923429monster hunter world
>>745923429Morrowind unironically
>>745923429The World Ends With You/NEOMonster Hunter games (before GU and world)Kingdom HeartsAll better than dark souls rollslop uninspired combat, especially monster hunter because it did it before and understood the importance of spacing.
>>745924820>Kingdom hearts fan thinking he has any right to shit on anything else.you play fuckin' kingdom hearts.
>>745924820>Kingdom sharts
>>745924230If the challenges are boring, what does that say about the base game.
>>745924921Anon said good combat, not story>japanese game>story
Avowed. For all it's flaws combat felt pretty good once I got a build going
I like rollslop, and I'm not afraid to say it
>refuse to block, even though shields and guard counter are strong>refuse to parry, even though it's strong>refuse to deflect, even though it was added in the dlc>refuse to jump, even though jump r2 is even easier than roll spam>"this game is roll slop you can't do anything else"
>>745925169nta, but KG also has terrible combat, so im not sure what point youre making
define action rpg
>>745925169Oh you're also one of those guys who is embarrassed by the things he likes. Don't you have to be 18 to post here? You're clearly not out of your adolescent years.
Monster Hunter Rise.The hit boxes are fucking insane, as in insanely good.Genuinely they have the best combat from any MH game while also being fun. YES the whole raid fight shit was fucking stupid and totally memeable, but besides that I thought it was the best iteration of MH so far.
>>745923646>>745923832It's so funny how many people here sucked Dragon's Dogma's dick. Its sequel announcement literally got a sticky. Then? lol. lmao.
>>745925425Anon there's one problem here: I'm not the KHfag
>>745923429Astlibra
>>745924921kino hearts whoops your rhythm game up, down and sideways. go roll yourself out of a window
>>745923429Kingdom Come is almost good, if only they'd remove master strike and make fighting multiple enemies not clunky as hell
Nioh 2 shits down on roll slop.
>>745925527Even worse, you just dismissed all japanese writing as bad the instant it has an art style that embarrasses you. That's makes your opinion even less valuable.
>>745923429ITT: anons that have no idea what rollslop is
This be fair, rolling around like a spaz all over the place is probably just about the single most ineffective thing you can do outside of just throwing yourself on the ground and flopping around
>>745925673>you just dismissed all japanese writing as bad the instant it has an art style that embarrasses you>the instant That's also not true. Post games!!!
>>745923429Dragon Nest
>>745925025literally nothing?
>>745923429Rollslop is bad
Rolling once or twice is fine, rolling being the entire combat system is retarded
>>745925669Nioh IS rollslop
>>745923429"Action RPG" and "good" should never be in the same sentence.
>>745923604>cookie clicker grind-for-gear genre where you kite retarded mobs the whole time>you picked one of its few games that is only salvageable because it also has a roll
>>745925669I beat that whole game only dodging.
>>745925404You'd be correct on any game in the series with the exception of KH2 on critical mode. That game has incredibly fun combat when you're forced to engage with it and can't just button mash through stuff.
Scarlet Nexus comes to mind. I enjoyed the combat in that one.
>>745923993If I had no idea what a Souls game was, I would think this is fucking awesome. And I do think it's fucking awesome. Your mind is rotted that this doesn't look cool as shit.
>>745923429The amount of damage Dark Souls fans have done to videogame combat should be studied. Literally killed two generations of vidya.
>>745926267im generally not a fan of over the top weebshit. thats why, really.
>>745925785>Post games!!!why? So you can list them all off and call them bad? You've already clarified you're not interested in a debate. I'm just here to call you a faggot over and over until you piss off.
>>745926068hehe i memed u
>>745926330mindbroken
>You should be ASHAMED for enjoying souls games.>It's ALL YOUR FAULT everyone is copying them!You can like souls gameplay and also DMC and Tales of and Xenoblade and .hack// and all other kinds of action+ARPG combat.You don't need to be some weird fag about all this.
>>745926330explain this supposed "damage" i always hear about. like 6 indie games being inspired by souls combat does not make it a fucking epidemic. i swear to god, niggers on this board can be some of the most melodramatic faggots on the planet. its not like souls combat eclipses all of fucking gaming. not even close. you guys always have a very liberal use of the term "soulslike combat" too as seemingly any game that is third person with a sword is literally the same as dark souls now, apparently.
>>745926450Almost makes you think /v/ is populated by women huh?Too much estrogen around here.
Glover has better combat than dark souls
>>745923429Unironically Oblivion.
>>745923429devil may cry and Godhand
picrel is a good game. Somehow it reminds me of the fun I had playing Dark Messiah, even if it's not the same
>>745926450Hating Souls games in general is like the biggest proof that /v/ is just a bunch of whiny vaginas. It's a series that's Japanese, gameplay-focused, tries to challenge its audience, and has nothing that's particularly "woke" in it. It has no microtransactions. It's like the ur video game series /v/ should like. But because people here are antisocial freaks, they need to be angry, so they caw "rollslop" like a bunch of pigeons.
>>745927190Yeah even if it's not your cup of tea, there's no reason for a hate campaign unless you've got an agenda.
>>745926574Unfathomable shit taste
>>745927285There are anons pumping up Morrowind and Mount and Blade.It wasn't a serious thread from the start.
>>745923646THIS POST BASED POST
>>745927190I like Souls but everything from DS3 onward has been shit. They took the wrong lessons.
>>745923429Diablo 2don't @ me
>>745924820>Monster Hunter games (before GU and world)MHfags are so delusional it's honestly disgusting. I can't believe I wasted hours of my life playing this slop.
>>745926012No, it is block kino.
>>745927704DS3 is the best dark souls, you're just a fucking baby.
>>745927704>I like Souls but the games with vastly better combat and level design are shit lmao. DeS and DaS1 are boring as fuck now little bro.
>>745927851Another one bites the dust.
>>745927949nta, but while DS3 has the best combat, movement, enemies, bosses, etc. it has by far the worst world. aesthetically, narratively and the map design/layout. it sucks and is very uninteresting. i still like DS3 for the combat, but the world is so boring its insane.
>>745928067Flashbombs Unite is not difficult and does not have good or interesting combat. You retards really act like MH invented 3D action combat without lock-on.
>>745923429God Hand
>>745924820>>745927851>>745928067Same person.
>>745928105>the map design/layout.This is wrong. DaS3 has the best levels in the trilogy by far.
>>745926267Well yeah it looks good but playing it is not very involved and therefore boring in the long run.
>>745928356Plenty of people seem to love it.
>>745928057NTA and him saying DS3 is shit is proof of profound mental retardation, but don't you think it's a little disingenuous to be using the worst looking and most rushed area in the entire game as an example?
>>745928459Plenty of people love CoD and McDonald's. Doesn't make them good.
>>745928519All the levels after Anor Londo suck ass besides the Duke's Archive so not really.
>>745928538Both are excellent at what they do. Maybe you need to accept that rather then believing certain things are objectively bad, you just subjectively don't like them.
>>745928649And yes, that's technically the Duke's Archive but it's really just a beginning of Crystal Cave.
>>745925025damn, you really didn't think this one through
>>745923429kneel, you fucking peasant.
>>745928347levels are okay, but their context within the whole world/map design is bad. they are self contained little levels unlike what we saw in DS1. DS3 gameplay with the map design philosophy of DS1 would have been actual fucking peak
>>745923429I'd rather play a game with combat like this than pseud Japanese garbage where you have to die at least 10 times to each boss just to learn how to beat him.
>>745925487dragon's dogma 2 is good
honestly i just want an action adventure game, not everything turning into the same gameplay style all the damn time. it's like the entire industry became a self-fellating ouroboros about how insane they can make their boss fights and i'm over here wondering why beating something up with a metal stick whole doing dodge rolls or parries like i'm a geriatric or spamming abusable magic are apparently the only things they can come up with anymore.
>>745928667Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.
>>745923429not an rpg, but jedi academy/outcast
>>745929024>you have to die at least 10 times to each boss just to learn how to beat him.You're just shit at vidya lol.
>>745929024>you have to die at least 10 times to each boss just to learn how to beat him.You are actually retarded, but that is to be expected from a TEShitter.
>>745923429When people say "rollslop" they don't mean every game with invulnerability frames on a dodge. They mean games where all you can do is roll, then strike, and repeat ad infinitum.
>>745927949Anime flips and infinite rolling is gay as fuck. Put it back at King's Field speed.
>tfw everything that has been posted in this thread so far is either inferior to elden ring's combat or is straight up not from an action rpgwhen will contrarians admit that "rollslop" combat is actually the best combat system that has ever graced an action rpg?
>>745929321nah. rollslop sucks because shieldslop is superior.
>>745928649Bone zone, crystal shithole, and bed of chaos shithole all suck, but I don't think they're enough to ruin the game. Shame we never got to see what Lost Izalith would have looked like as the great swamp it was originally intended to be.
>>745929306Honestly, why is it so hard for you guys to just admit you're just bad at video games? There's no shame in that, you're posting on /v/ ffs.
>>745923429>To the anons who hate rollslop combat, what action RPG actually has good combat?Souls(-likes) games, Nioh, are some of the best if not the best. Btw rollslopification of DS didn't start until DS3. You can thank people who got filtered by DS2 for that. The series was heading away from "rollslop".
>>745929129But you're not saying why they're bad. CoD's been the most popular first person shooter for almost 20 years. McDonald's has served billions. You're not going to succeed on that level by being objectively bad.
>>745929485>chads in heavy armor with fatrolls, either just facetanking the hits or using a shieldfuck rollfags.
>>745923750Is it still jank? There was that big announcement a while back that Ubisoft was working with modders and handing them the source code or the SDK or something to continue working on it. It's the entire reason we have a co-op mod now, and I remember them working on other things as well
>>745923750>shame its kind of jank on modern systemsmotherfucker it barely ran even then, launch was a crashfest
>>745929364Perfect blockslop>shieldslop
>>745929410Roll and parryslop is the epitome of "skillful" for people who are bad a video games. If Souls went the route of being more spacing/positioning focused like King Field was and 2 was heading towards the series would have died.
>>745929691true, i concede that parryslop is peak.
>>745929753>If Souls went the route of being more spacing/positioning focusedNice buzzwords to pretend you know what you're talking about but that's not only present in every action game ever made, it's still present in every Souls game from DaS3 to BB to ER.
>>745929813Parry slop is kinda shit, desu. I prefer deflectslop
>>745923429none, rpg elements are antithetical to good gameplay
Dragon's DogmaMonster HunterGranblue Fantasy RelinkDarktideDark MessiahJust those off the top of my head
>>745927190The gameplay is shit. Also, body type 1 and 2 in Elden Ring. Fuck you.
what is the point of the -slop suffix. it seems to be entirely meaningless and is just an indicator that a thing is its thing. like, "parryslop" just means parrying gameplay or "rollslop" just means rolling gameplay. it never seems to actually be an indicator of the quality because it implies such a thing such as "rollquality" or "rollgem" which nobody ever says. fucking buzzwords, all around.
>>745923750Many games copy it, but don't rise to its level. Dork messiah is only good because it's an extremely polished implementation with fitting combat encounters to support it, not because it had some revolutionary ideas for a good combat system
>>745925487You lost, aquajeet.
>>745923887Try Dragon's Dogma 2.
Behold, the superior Monster Hunter gameplay:
>>745923429Rollslop combat is objectively trash tho.
>>745930004Slop means it's slop.How fucking stupid are you?
>>745923429Any game that strongly encourages spatial awareness, positioning and spacing rather than the rhythm game combat that dodge/parry causes. Having your primary defensive option be i-frames/parries results in the devs getting away with shitty game design like excessive tracking and delayed animations.
>>745923429diablo 2
Granble Relink rapes your favorite ARPG
>>745930030yeah but thats what makes it good. it keeps it simple. it was what made DeS and DS1 combat so fun too was that it wasnt revolutionary by any means. it already resembled the combat of games like Blade of Darkness, Rune, Enclave, etc. its just the context of the whole game that makes it a great system, holistically.
>>745926450>Dodge-rolling as a concept (dumbest looking shit ever that poisoned every action game)>Bosses/enemies that lunge at you and whose attacks cover several square meters against so your only response can be chaining together non-diegetic invincibility frame dodges until it's your turn to attack>Extremely minimalistic options for attack in addition to defense>No mobility in combatSouls games have been a poison to action games, action rpgs, platformers, fucking shooters, survival horror, roguelikes (rivaling roguelikes themselves) and more. Like a cancer, subsuming every possibility of how a game could play and making it into more Dark Souls 3.
>>745930067MH wishes it had controls this good.
>>745930137no you retarded nigger, because people consistently say "i love rollslop" and shit like that. it implies they are just using the slop suffix for no fucking reason. its memetic linguistic simulacra.
>>745930169bro that looks like dogshit.
>>745929151>>745929209That's literally what the games are known for, being hard and expecting you to die over and over again. Kill yourself for pretending it's otherwise.
>>745930169overstimulated tranime garbage, kys
>>745929863Souls is the one action series that doesn't require positioning most of the time. Elden Ring basically requires none. That's what happens when you have an i-frame roll. I'm saying if Souls went the route of being like other action games it would have died. Souls wouldn't have taken off as much as it did if it was like most other action games.
Dodge buttons that offer more than just invincibility frames. Platinum games for example, their dodge buttons allow you to restart broken combos if you are knocked down, and to interrupt combos midway through with a dodge before resuming. Bayonetta and MGRR have really impressive combat from this if you master it, because it goes beyond using rollslop to abuse invincibility: you use rolls timed with the enemy's attacks to guarantee your combos never end and can go to like 200+ hits.High level platinum games gameplay fixes rollslop. You just need more to your roll than I frames: make it an attack like in MGRR, and allow rolls to preserve your combos uninterrupted, or start them back up.
>>745930236Stupid autist, slop is slop. One can still like slop. If it wasn't slop it'd be kino. Rollkino. Slop is objective, preference is subjective.
>>745927190I hate souls game because they've flanderized themselves into a state of absolute dogshit. Miyazaki is too stupid to understand the appeal of DeS and DaS1 and just makes his games more and more spectacle and "aura" focused at the expense of everything else.
>>745930140You gotta list some games that fit the criteria my dude.
>>745930260>>745930286Less visually cluttered than any Shadow of the Erdtree fight
>>745930289No, you quite literally constantly move around all the time in Souls games and ER if you're using melee weapons.
>>745929410I'm not, I just have no tolerance for your bullshit.
>>745930181>Dodge-rolling as a conceptexisted way before DeS>Bosses/enemies that lunge at you and whose attacks cover several square meters against so your only response can be chaining together non-diegetic invincibility frame dodges until it's your turn to attackthis is not a plague on gaming. maybe stop playing games that explicitly dark souls clones and start playing the myriad of other games out there with different systems, retard?>Extremely minimalistic options for attack in addition to defensethis is also not an epidemic in games for the same reason as stated above>no mobility in combatthere are plenty of games that allow for mobility in combat. this whole thing sounds like you are just a retard that doesnt know how to look for different games other than games on steam explicitly tagged with the "soulslike" category. anons like you are so annoying its insane. not every fucking game with dodging i-frames and a third person perspective with a sword is a fucking soulslike, faggot.
>>745930430>I'm not>>Put it back at King's Field speed.Yes you are.
>>745930413>positioning is just "moving around all the time"So you are the one that doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>745927190This is why I barely come to this board. Worthles retards with worthless performative opinions that are just here to get angry at thingssome
>>745930236How are you capable of forming readable sentences when you seem to lack any sign of coginitive processes?Slop is still slop. People can say they love eating shit. Either as a joke or by having enough self-reflection to acknowledge their taste is shit. And there's always tards who misuse words they don't understand.
>>745930571Yes, positioning is just basic movement. It means nothing. Every action game has you run around the arena and go to the backside of enemies, or to the side, or on top, or slightly angle yourself so you don't get hit, or whatever. It's not a concept Dark Souls invented. Sorry to disappoint.
>>745929869what the fuck is the difference? I see people call stellar blade parry slop all the time even though its a deflect
>>745930690>doubling down
>>745930862That you're a massive retard who doesn't even play action games yet wants to talk about them on /v/?
The real answer is Skyward Sword. Retards are too stupid to understand you don't need to flail your arm, it works fine. The enemy design also is pretty good at giving exposition to various motions required, and so it doesn't just feel like a tacked on mechanic. Gyro swordplay also goes perfectly with lightgun projectiles which is the best form of aiming.
>>745930949fucking laughable opinion. can you just go the baby tendie thread and leave the discussion for the guys who mentally matured past the age of 12?
>>745930169i can almost make out what the fuck is happening on this screen
>>745930949>The enemy design also is pretty good at giving exposition to various motions requiredUntil they immediately change their defensive position in a split second so you can't even hit them and then you get electrified.
fromslop is badand so is this threadpage 10
>>745930820A parry explicitly opens up a vulnerability, you know, like a fucking parry. ER was fucking retarded for making parry-able bosses require 3 parries. A deflect doesn't do that, it literally just deflects attacks. The benefit of this might be with precise deflect timing, you're immediately poised to make the most of every opening, without a roll having recovery or poor positioning placement.
>>745931164bump lol
debump lmao
>>745923429The Witcher 1.
>>745923429You can play all of dark souls 1 without rolling or using a shield.
>>745925659I played two playthroughs where it made master strikes verh rare for npcs and the window was so small I only got maybe single or low double digits each playthrough; way better. It also doubled all the prices and halves what you sell things for which is nice since you don't get rich immediately and you actually sort of need to try out mid-tier horses.It also made the slow-mo on parrying way tuned down, the combat felt great. More rpg's need to take a chance and try something new. ESVI is probably going to be like +/-10% in combat depth than V lmao
>>745923993Annoys me how the opponents always have those uber flash 17 hit chains with the sky falling, the sun splitting and the oceans parting, while you just go in with a little *bonk*.
>>745923429Any game with real hitstun
>>745931487wow and you can play mario 64 with only half an a press. what a meaningful and thought provoking reply.
>>745931480I played that game by switching my keyboard and mouse around. By the end of Act 2 it started feeling slightly normal. The seals were fun in that game but without them it would have been so bad kekI did enjoy the combat from 2 a lot. The story was pretty lame, or at least how they presented it to you most of the time.
>>745930169>8000000 x10 hits every swing>boss hp bar moves nanometers that looks like garbage
>>745930525No.
>>745931487You can play all of Elden Ring without rolling or using a shield.
>>745932018Yeah, the kino gameplay of KF where you kill the final boss by standing miles away while spamming Fire Wall.
>>745923429Dark Souls 1.
>>745926330>Literally killed two generations of vidya.Saved. Souls games saved vidya. Soulslike combat is the only good and satisfying combat system. Sekiro is the best game ever made.
>>745932801nah
>>745925892>>745928803NTA but you two are brainless. If the game isn't fun when pushed to the limits, it's inherently badly designed. Look at Mario, Celeste, DMC, Ninja Gaiden. The gameplay works well and is satisfying at the absolute pinnacle of difficulty it can offer you. Soulslop has always been a brainlet's idea of good difficulty. Be ashamed.
>>745933146play a mario challenge run without jumping and tell me how fun it is
>>745923429Mount & Blade: Warband's combat is exceptional.
>>745933146Challenge runs are supposed to enhance the experience. Kingdom Hearts, Pokemon and Zelda all have challenge modifiers (Critical, Nuzlocke, 3-Heart Runs) that all are more satisfying and deep than any Souls game. Soulsbabies will not like this idea, however. Much like tendies, they get really in their fee-fees when you criticize their sacred cow. It's because they don't actually play other games that they take such offense lol
>>745933465>Have to use challenge run hands tied behind your back mode to even compare with normal souls gameplay
>>745923429kingdom hearts is the crème de la crème and it makes me sad it never caught on like rollslop
>/v/ can't decide if souls games need grounded combat or bing bing wahoo air juggles
>>745925669How is it better? I'm not being a bitch, I'm thinking about playing it. Looks badass
>>745924820>before GUCorrect.
>/v/ will whine that ER is a "boss rush" while telling you to play monster a hunter a glorfied boss grinding game, or LoP which has fuck awful level design
>>745933579>mash A to awesome spectacleslopthank god this adhd puke """"""""""gameplay"""""""""" didnt catch on
>>745933921Yes. I will tell you that different studios and different IPs had different appeals. Thank you for understanding. People would lament Monster Hunter changing into a dungeon crawler too.
>>745923429>reddit ringZanzibart...forgive me...
>>745933921Monster Hunter is shit though.
>>745923429will it blow your contrarian minds if i say that i like morrowind AND elden ring? ill await your next strawman reply now.
>>745934119Yeah but no one cares what you think
>>745934232I care what he thinks and I agree with him.
>>745934179This isn't your blog faggot
>game where i need to think about my positioning and commit to my attack direction? no that combat is shit>game where i can rollrollrollrollrollrollroll? now that's action kino!
>>745934268I bet you do moron lmao
>>745923993
>>745934083>People would lament Monster Hunter changing into a dungeon crawler tooOnly retards who pretend the oldgen games are good and not literal slop.
>>745934179>i like shit AND shit
>>745934232Actually that's the correct opinion, which is why no one gave a shit about MH until World lmao.
how about you braindead fucking zoomers engage one ounce of the desiccated part of your withered grapefruit brain responsible for imagination and get lost in a fantastical worldfuck what a dumb generation of illiterate little faggots
>>745934048You have never played KH.
>>745934805:skull:get a load of this unc
>>745934842i have. i played kingdm hearts 2 in my youth because my big brother owned it and would play anything i could get my hands on. terrible gamepaly and even worse cringe and gay as fuck story, characters, aesthetics, etc. its just for faggy tumblrina LGBT hot topic tweens
>>745934805>this game is fantastic, but you still have to IMAGINE its good
>>745930397>Miyazaki is too stupid to understand the appeal of DeS and DaS1and ds2, you know, the best one
elden ring has better combat but morrowind has a far better plot
>>745935167>i haveCool, tell me how magic combos comes from the supposed A button.
>>745929563mcdonalds is objectively bad
>>745934510ER sword and board with square off is the most ludo playstyle in any souls game
>>745934805the problem is you have complete idiots making completely superfluous twitter-formatted posts.
>>745931060It's an issue with that character specifically, he summons an avatar that flies around with every attack you make.>>745931748Well yeah, it's one of the very last bosses of the expansion
>>745934349Nobody asked you idiot
>>745934732Opinions are not facts you autistic moron. But of course your parents didn't love you enough to teach you that.
>>745935918It's not an opinion. Nobody gave a fuck about MH before World because they were slow, boring, and clunky action games for retards. Which is why World and beyond outsold the previous games by a fuckton. Sorry you like eating shit.
>>745923646spbp
>>745930169
>>745923604>push the button to explode the screenjust riveting all grim dawn, diablo and PoEhave terrible boring combat
>>745925383ALL of the options you mentioned play out the exact same kek. That's the problem with slop souls retard
>>745929321you haven't played any game other than souls tranny
>>745929753trvke
>>745934805There are movies, books, TV shows that do the job better than the failed 3D metroidvania casual stat allocation RPG rollslop garbage that is dark souls. Failure of an action game, failure at being a RPG.But you aren't ready for this conversation because you are a 35+ year old manchild with limited cognitive abilitySubhuman lmao. You fucking play scripted videogames limited in scope for immersion and have the gall to type that post.You can't rotate the apple in your head. How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?
>>745923429Morrowind has amahzing combat
>>745923429The litmus test to determine if a game is truly difficult or can offer actual challenge as a video game (not in the form of pointless tedium) is using cheat engine to speed it up.Good games will still require the player to show proficiency at whatever task is being asked, may it be a puzzle, or a dexterity challenge, or a mix of both; speeding up the game doesn't negate the challenge that is being posed. If anything, it should make the interactivity more challenging, and thus more engaging.Shit games on the other hand (majority of turn based JRPGs, but also ARPGs) will be trivialized thanks to grinding being the actual real solution to solve problems.>but don't do it!!Missing the point entirely. A game that can also be completely stripped of friction by following a guide for stat allocation or skill tree choices falls into the slop movie game category as well, because the difficulty is not in solving a riddle or puzzle like in the actual eponymous game genre but literal time-wasting mechanics disguised as "experimenting", or exploring for the most retarded copers.Note how I specified turn based JRPGs or whatever the movie game western equivalent is. Traditional turn based games with a strong focus on combat or tactical/strategic thinking do not lose any of the component of their challenge when sped up.
>>745923993It just looks so dumb. >oh shit my first attack missed>better do the next step in my overly-choreographed chain, this time a little to the left!It never looks like you're fighting an intelligent opponent, but rather a fighting game player who relies too much on auto combos.
>>745923993>meteor strike with a buildup that makes the sky red, mutes music, and is accompanied by terrifying sound effects>visually hits you and explodes>dodge lmaoSouls-games look so silly when all it takes to survive the coolest, oh-so-powerful attacks is a fucking roll or sometimes, even just a jump lmao
>>745937637>Traditional turn based games with a strong focus on combat or tactical/strategic thinking do not lose any of the component of their challenge when sped up.Traditional roguelikes are the only difficult turn-based games then. Damn.
>>745929321that's a really fucking nice belly
>>745923429Fun fact: the Fromtoddlers hate dark souls 2 because its the only souls game with no rolling
>>745923429I don't hate roll/dodge based combat, it's just that From got obsessed with spectacle over everything else in ER's major boss fights.If you want to try a combat system that's polar opposite to rollsoulslike without being turn based, Exanima is worth checking out.
>>745933658There is no debate. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 1 are the blueprint to be followed, any diverging design is wrong.
>>745934349If an action doesn't happen when i press the button, the game is shit. Animation locking/"comittment" is goyslop.
>>745923429>what action RPG actually has good combat?Kingdoms of Amalur
>>745934510Gay Faggot Radahn doesn't adhere to the most basic souls design principle: the boss gets to do ONE attack and then it's MY turn. All of Elden Ring doesn't adhere to this, which is why it's a shit game.
>>745935918I don't have opinions. I have knowledge based in objective reality.
>>745936053But World is also slow, boring, and clunky. Rise is the only good MH game.
@745927796Based.
Dark Messiah of Might & Magic
>>745923429None, they're all terrible.
>>745942045>the boss gets to do ONE attack and then it's MY turnShitposting at its finest
>>745923429Kek that whole meme just accidentally gave the whole game away that the entire Fromslop meme psyop over the last 15 years was wholly centered around nothing but Bethesda derangement syndrome. It was all about Beth this whole time, no one ever actually cared about Elden Ring or Sekiro or anything, it was all just "Beth bad" virtue signalling. A whole entire gaming cottage industry built on lies. It's a miracle this farce was allowed to continue as long as it has, but then again, maybe not as high school is something that never ends for 99% if normogroids. Bullying them through peer pressure into accepting gay forced narratives was probably never that hard
>>745938625This but unironically
>>745923429Zelda
>>745923429You posted it. In actual rpg your input over character stats and leveling should always supersede your own skill and reaction times or it cease to be rpg.
>>745924820But Monster Hunter invented stamina bar rollslop?!
>>745923429I like Morrowind and Elden Ring
>>745923429World of warcraft
>>745943269So go play Wizardry or Ultima?
>>745937637>to determine if a game is truly difficult or can offer actual challenge as a video game is using [literal cheats]>grinding being the actual real solution to solve problems.>A game that can also be completely stripped of friction by [cheating]In top 10 of most retarded posts ever.
>>745923429it's dark souls (and kinda demons to an extent) souls combat was good when:stamina actually needed to managedit was less about iframes and more about long stretches of attrition between checkpoints with limited heals, making all mistakes costly (demons fucked this up with grass, etsus being the perfected system) item/gear prep and paying attention the environment matteredsouls becoming a boss rush franchise is simple not what the simple combat system was made for, which is why the later games suck dick.
>>745923750coveniently placed spikes: the game
>>745923429gothic
>>745923750the adventures of sir kicksalot is pretty funthough it looks like shit and plays it in a unserious memey way, not to everyone's taste
>>745923429Anything that doesn't use i-frames.
>>745945264Literally every dodge in literally every game has iframes.
>>745923429your mistake was thinking i even like arpgs combat in the first place
Skyrim. It's simple enough not to give me epilepsy and complex enough to allow a thousand different playstyles.Melee combat is so comfy too. Click, swing, click block. Hell yeah gaming time(Unplayable without a dmg multplier mod thovgh)
>>745945383>this man never played Secret of Mana on the couch with his best friendNever had a childhood.
>rolling, parrying, mikiri counters, iframesaren't these just basically QTEs without the massive button promptpress button on timing to do cool thing
>>745923429I'll take any elder scrolls combat, even arena, over dark souls and its various remakes.
>>745945596>even arena
>>745925669>get kusarigama>spam high stance heavy attackAnd that's how I got through 95% of encounters across all difficulties
>>745945596Arena and Daggerfall's style of combat is the best in the series (not a high bar).
>>745945545>you press a button and a thing happens so it's the sameYes, just like a hotdog, being made of the same basic elements, is equivalent to a dick in your mouth you massive pedantic homosexual.
>>745923646this
Are Arena and Daggerfall actually worth playing? I know Daggerfall unity is a thing but doesn’t seem like Arena has an equivalent.
>>745930169I was interested in downloading it, but after that webm I think I prefer to keep my 60 gigas of space
I really wanted to like Arx Fatalis, but the controls are so fucking clunky and shit.
>>745946023>Daggerfall unityI adored it. A proper rpg. Yes, it's a bit bare bones but back then the concept of a rp video game was different in that the player had to put some imagination to it. It's more kind of like a playground. If you're into that and dungeon crawling and cool factions then go for it. It's free and has a solid modding community
>>745923429Roll slop is bad and boring if you have autism. If you don't have autism I'm sure its fun, but if you have autism you are just playing with pathfinding the entire time and its boring as fuck
>>745946023No.>>745946208>the concept of a rp video game was differentShut up, nigger. TES was the beginning of nu"RPG" action-adventure open world slop. They just learned their lesson with Morrowind to not be retardedly ambitious with the world size.
>>745927071YOURLIFEISFORFEIT
>>745923429Souls is the best combat until you get oneshotted by a single hit in a combo of 15 attacks the boss does while jumping all over the arena
>>745946536>oneshottedBuild issue
>>745946593how much health needed to survive at least 1 hit? Radahn for example
>>745923429Skyrim. >simplistic melee >okay-ish magic where you can cast with both hands>basic stealth that is not shitit's basic and boring as hell but it gets the job done. and people who mod the game to turn it into rollslop shows why the average gamer doesn't deserve to live
>>745923993>boss 8x times your size #8614Nioh (1) did it better
>>745946638uuummm sweaty if you did not stack 20 damage reducing trinkets and buffs you are playing it wrong
>>745945423>Skyrim.>allow a thousand different playstyles.And they're all fun too. I'm currently trying to decide between a mage and a warrior. Melee is fun because the shield becomes a proper weapon which disarms and eventually sends enemies flying. Just really fun to play. Very different from thief types, which was the last character I played. Perhaps mage remains my favorite though, because your character becomes so powerful if you know how to use all your spells.
>>745946536I remember playing KCD on release and think>man, it's so good not to deal with souls combat, feels like breath of fresh air Souls combat is garbage because i-frames are mistake by design. If anything, souls combat is the lowest point of combat anyone can think of, even shitty Morrowing from OP is better, I just hope you understand that OP is baiting with his webm
>>745930949>The real answer is Skyward SwordI wasn't expecting someone this redpilled on /v/
>>745930990Get out of your mom's basement and take a shower.
>>745945423How hard would be for Anbeegod to make Follower dialogue expansion for Melina?
>>745930169this post really made lot of people seethe ITT
>>745947984>post vomit dogshit implying implying it's the best thing ever>"lol you replied that means you're seething and i'm right :)"kys
>>745948042Here is your gameplay for the next 60h+ sis, remember to dilate
>>745929321>those tattoos
>>745948185Infinitely better than whatever visual vomit jrpg trash you posted
>>745923646lole
>>745938616correct, the immersive way to dodge is run out of the way(their tracking is lower) or hide behind something. MH does it and end game encounters don't feel like bing bing wahoo.
>>745925487Love dd1 Love dd2Love ddon
>>745931195>it literally just deflects attacksAnd recovers instantly and generates a resource and builds posture damage on the boss and activates your cinematic super move and sucks your dickThe problem with every parry or deflect mechanic in every game is that developers can't help but attach endless rewards to it. Avoiding all damage and also recovering faster than a roll and not having to move and not being forced out of position ISNT ENOUGH apparently. The way you create better ARPG combat is by having a range of defensive tools which are balanced against each other so the player can and should use multiple options depending on the situation and depending on their build. Then you also need to require people to fit their actual moveset into the middle of combat so that the fight isn't just a one sided defensive QTE. Finding out how to land your big slow attacks safely against a boss is part of action gameplay and should be considered in boss moveset design, it should be possible and necessary to create the space to hit things safely. Recent games have undermined this by allowing a defensive tool like Deflect to build up a bar which gives you a free damage window, removing the need for you to ever try and use attacks during the fight. This is horrible gameplay design which leads to horrible boss design and makes weapons and builds all feel the same because your real offense is just coming from a deflect buttonOnly a handful of games have made a good stab at it. SoP balances deflect, soul shield and dodge against each other well by not stacking too much of a reward on deflect and by having back damage which gives you a reason to want to move and dodge through things. Nine Sols is notable because it looks like parryslop at first glance but parry does very little to progress the fight and is mostly used to build a resource for a big slow nuke that you need to find a safe opening to land
NiohRise of the RoninDragon's DogmaMount & Blade Warband
>>745924820lmao World SB has more depth and precision than any other weapon in previous games
>>745923429For me it's successor class PSO2 combat.
nioh
>>745951503Nioh combat is very fun due to movesets but:>best option to evade is either block + dodge or run around and punish (you are fast as fuck so the boss can barely track you)>you get so many possibilities to enhance your damage and defence that the best way is to basically yolo the boss dealing as much damage as it deals you on NG+ the second comment might not be valid but the enemy variety and level design doesn't really make it enticing to play all these missions all over.Still it's extremely fun and I love stances so much, it just doesn't reward as much as beating From bosses
>>745951729>>you get so many possibilities to enhance your damage and defence that the best way is to basically yolo the boss dealing as much damage as it deals youthat's true, i remember cheesing most of the bosses in nioh 1 with the slowing talisman or whatever it was on my first playthroughstill, i have soulshit fatigue at this point, especially with nightreign and duskbloods, so i'll take anything that's not fromsoft
>>745943269>>>/tv/
>>745951881I literally refrained myself from using Sloth Talisman because it felt like cheating too much, but power pill + carnage + elemental buff + other bullshit just raped everything in a matter of seconds. Which is fair since they also can rape you as fast, but definitely not the methodical and patient Souls experience
>>745924921>>745925010>Thinking the mainline Kingdom Hearts combat is bad.That's how i know you're just a guy who has no information about good action games and only goes what the mainstream says.Anyone who says the Kingdom Hearts mainline games have bad combat doesnt care about action games and only plays what their favorite youtuber or streamer says and think they are big boys for not playing a game with disney on it.I played every Fromsoft game there is yes even Kings Field that you people never heard off and the Data boss fights of KH3 are better than Fromsofts best boss fight
>>745923646>>745923750>>745923832>>745929956Pretty much. Not so sure about Mon Hun and the other games, but the lack of weighty, dynamic, physics-based combat in the ARPG space like those of the Dogma balls games and of Dark Messiah is a damn shame. >>745946640Skyrim and the Elder Scroll games suck dick. If you said Two Worlds, I would at least give you that it has the best magic system in an RPG ever devised but literally everything about the Elder Scroll games outside of the exploration is subpar and below the standards of even games like Severance: Blade of Darkness.
>>745924820Oh hey I’m a fan of all of those and so I’m aware that all of them feature rolling as an evasive maneuver!
>>745923429I don't say ANY action RPG has good combatI say, per title, aRPG has BAD combat. Because they all suck dogshitSimple asI don't show up to aRPGs for the action. I show up for an RPG - that is real time and doesn't abstract its basic actions through menus. That's it.This notion of mechanical combat depth over numbers games is innane. The further these genre titles lean toward action, the shittier they all become, if only for attracting absolute numbskulls like youGo play PSO.Then go play New Genesis.One will immediately suck dicks, but grow on you.One will immediately be serviceable, but leave absolutely no lasting impact except for how irredeemably uninteresting it is.By all means. Decide for yourself which is which
>>745952994you don't understand the assignment
>>745923429skyrim 2h meleeor musou games
>>745925669High stance and mid stance rolls are about double the iframes as a mid roll in the OG dark souls. Low stance is 2 frames less than a dark souls mid roll but with a third of the recovery.>>745935340By what metric?
>>745953009You are filtered by actual strategy games. You are the living definition of a bonafide mouthbreather. Keep eating shit and play your moviegame number go up simulators to stroke your ego, subhuman jarpig troon.Action games mog your baby inane bruteforcing skinner box damage numbers stat slop trash thanks to mechanical skill and gameplay Strategy games mog your baby inane bruteforcing skinner box damage numbers stat slop trash thanks to requiring actual IQ, cognitive ability, long term planning and clever decision makingThere is no ARPG, there is no JRPG, there is no CRPG where those things matter because they are poorly designed trash for cattle
>>745926267it looks cool but gets pretty boring over time when you realize it boils down to just sitting back and doing nothing until you learn the boss's attack windows, then reciting the same "walk up roll roll roll wait roll attack roll away" interaction over and over and over againif i'm going to play a game that feels as brainless as this, after i become familiar with the patterns, then i'd rather play something that gives power to the player, like a hack and slash game, so i can tactically spam the attack button instead of tactically spamming the dodge buttonit's just a more enjoyable fantasy to bullishly run through your enemies than it is to sit back and recite dodge patterns until it's your turn to land one or two bonks
>>745923429Better than skyrim
>>745936053>nobody have a fuck about a series with r mainline games and like a dozen spin-offs and expansions Monster hunter was always a premier capcom series. It was far above DMC for instance. It was basically only behind Resident Evil and Street fighter.
>>745953182uh oh shmup troon melty
>>745953182I didn't say anything about action gamesthe entire point for comparisons is arpgs are dogshit action games next to actual action games
>>745953182is this a bot post? wtf
>>745953182You don’t play video games though this reeks of an ESL thirdie using LLM and failing to fit in
>>745953182TRVKE
>>745930397You’ve never played a souls game in your lifeDa heckin da Flanders simpsons da flanders jfc, what an ESL
>>745953182Based and trueI can't think of a good game that would be improved by adding rpg mechanics
Threads like this make you understand and why this site has lost 70% of its users in the last two years holy incoherent third world babble
>>745930408Those are /gbfg/fags, ignore them
>>745953473>>>/tv/
>>745949741In 9S parries build chip damage, that's the dark red part of the bosses health bar. You can kill bosses by parrying and then smacking a talisman on them.
>>745949741If i'm suppose to click more than one button in case of defense then its too hard for me, i would rather learn fight in real life than wasting time learning fucking vidya Vidya - relax not a fucking job
>>745953231>Monster hunter was always a premier capcom seriesSure it was which is why the series sold like shit outside of Japan.
>>745926330Gee, I wonder what good vidya I'd have to play if not for Dark Souls ruining everything.
>>745953850Ah yes the thirdie is doing the izzat farm shit where he endlessly replies after saying objectively wrong shit like how a jeet stays on the phone with kitboga for 40 minutes even though he got exposed 5 minutes in.Nigga what the fuck? Capcom is one of the biggest publishers in the industry and monster hunter is a flagship series even before World. Which is the fifth mainline games you don’t get up to 5 games by selling like shit, this isn’t counting the endless side games and expacs.You’re basically stating a game like the warcraft series sold like shit, it makes no sense. If this is you’re life you’re going to kill yourself
>>745923429>>745923993>You need to hit something 20 times to land one hit>You need to roll 20 times to land one hitI see no difference here
>>745953850but that’s not true, it’s their third best selling series (now #2 only behind RE)
>>745953702TRVKE
>>745954161>Which is the fifth mainline games you don’t get up to 5 games by selling like shitYou actually do considering they are copypasted hackjobs.>>745954230>it’s their third best selling seriesLiterally because of the worldwide sales from World.
>>745953850The Chinese alone were able to fund their own mmo server. Is China japan?
>>745954313No, it’s literally because they have an expansive catalogue of games that have each sold millions. It never sold poorly
>>745954409>games that have each sold millions....solely in Japan.
>>745954313If they were “copy pasted hackjobs” why were they selling millions and why did they even make it to the fifth game?Explain yourself. That doesn’t make sense. Apparently it was a shit series that never sold and they were benchod bloody basterd copypaste but how did they even get up to 5 mainline games?
>>745923429>Love Souls games but curious about other ARPG's to play>Told the Souls games I like are in fact shit and I should play 'good' ARPGs instead>Get reccomended Morrowind, Dragons Dogma, Dark Messiah among others>All are complete jank and in many ways objectively worse, aged or just broken.>t-thanks /v/
>>745954469That’s not true though, you can reply forever but that doesn’t change reality. It’s literal trans logic, you can say you are a woman it’s not true. Going to cry about it?
>>745954313>be third world incel>something is bloody bitch basterd >make up retarded claims and can’t bald them up >shit pants in rage >kill self Monster hunter was not a small series before world. It sold millions globally.
>>745954508>If they were “copy pasted hackjobs” why were they selling millionsYou act like these things are mutually exclusive.>>745954587It is. Why didn't DOS come out stateside? Or P3rd? Or the OG MH4?
>>745954469No, that’s not true. At the very minimum you have to add the Chinese. But just saying China and japan is also not true, several games like 4U had most of their sales be from the US.
>>745953626>You can kill bosses by parrying and then smacking a talisman on themThe overwhelming majority of the damage comes from the talisman and you want to use the talisman to cash out. This is a good design because it means you have to find a gap to land the talisman instead of just parrying and being given a gap for free. Sometimes the best way to create a gap is to dodge. 9S is still overly parry heavy though
>>745954669There are Pokémon games that don’t get released outside of Japan This is a non-point. Going to cry and kill yourself subhuman faggot. Answer this question:Why are you replying?
>>745954726>several games like 4UThe game that Capcom literally fucking said was the first MH game to even breach 1 million stateside lmao? lol even?
>>745954669Certain games being japan only is pretty irrelevant, basically any popular global japanese IP has japan only releases. Is dragonball z not popular?
>>745954917SaAar capcom literally fucking said mr capcom told me
>>745954924>Certain games being japan only is pretty irrelevant,Okay, so it wasn't Capcom's flagship series is what you're saying and that title actually belongs to RE?
>>745954978https://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/news/html/e150414.htmlMHfags are so stupid it hurts man. And they even had to say shipped LOL.
>>745924820desu I love brave LS and GS so I cant really hate GUfuck world though
>>745954669You act like a third worlder who is going to kill themselves. >get asked an easy question >don’t answer If the games sold like shit and are all also shit and copy paste how come they sold millions and made it to 5 mainline games?
>>745923993The problem with rollslop and perfect parryslop is that it's a system only build for 1v1 fights. The moment you go up against multiple enemies, the whole thing crumbles.
>>745923646dragon's dogma is also a rollslop combat copying from dark souls success though?
>>745954993Really, really desperate. You’re going to kill yourself. This is the strategy you use?
>>745955057>If the games sold like shitThey did outside of Japan, yeah.
>>745955148I'm sorry the truth hurts you when someone presents it to you. The shitty oldgen games are never coming back btw
>>745954993No one said it was their #1 series. Either a bot or a deeply ESL thirdie. Side note, the act of being ESL on an English speaking community is an admission you are unlikeable.
>>745955217>No one said it was their #1 seriesIt also wasn't their 3th or even 4th. It was a series nobody gave a shit about until World sold 30 millions copies and still increasing to this day.
>>745955151>>745955196>no I AM A WOMAN You can reply endlessly and scream into the void but it’s not reality.
>>745955302I know you’re upset but that’s not true. Series people don’t give a shit about don’t get 5 games.What’s your native language?
Wuthering Waves
>>745955386>Series people don’t give a shit about don’t get 5 games.You have to be trolling man.
>>745955302By your “logic” nobody cares about pokemon when its the best selling IP of all time
>>745955451I asked you a question:What’s your native language? I’ll tack on another one since you are being disingenuous: Where were you born?
>>745955558You're so stupid it hurts. Here's a hackjob series that sold like shit yet also constantly gets games. You know why? Because they are easy and quick copy and paste jobs with barely any advances per entry. You don't see that a lot nowadays because making games is more expensive and time consuming than ever retard.
>>745955702Yep, the bot is broken.Can’t answer a simple question.
parry slop
>>745955503Every Poke games breaks sales records and became a cultural phenomenon worldwide with terms like Pokemania. what a stupid "example"
deflect kino
>>745955702Native language and birthplace. Because you’re being disingenuous now you need to submit evidence.
>>745955738You brain is broken like every assbasted oldtroon for MH
>>745923429All RPGs have bad combat. This includes ER.
>>745955884What did it mean by this?
>>745955879>you’re being disingenuous>>Because they are easy and quick copy and paste jobs with barely any advances per entry. That's MH to a T no matter how mad it makes you.
>>745955937Native language and birthplace. Previously the evidence could have been a written letter it now needs to be a photograph. A result of you being disingenuous.
>>745956001Guess that's a wrap. Yet another win for me. So glad World finally made this series playable.
>>745955937>bot can’t keep track of the conversation Yeah going to need you to confirm native language
>>745954660>It sold millions globally.Objectively wrong but okay.
>>745956050>no evidence Indeed, it is “a wrap”
>>745956050Huh I guess this shit really is a bot, you can see how it bot got confused. The entire point was about sales but it got sidetracked into this tangent about gameplay. Clanker moment
>>745923429>I'm going to define "combat" as a vanishingly small space, and then confine discourse further by naming a hybrid genre whose very existence invalidates my definition of "combat," thereby rendering any good faith discussion impossible.classic /v/
>>745956229>The entire point was about salesAnd MH sold like shit outside of Japan. Why are getting mad at objective reality?
>>745952720>terally everything about the Elder Scroll games outside of the exploration is subpar and below the standards of even games like Severance: Blade of Darkness.And yet people would rather play those over any of the trash you think is good.
Damn this website kinda sucks
I really like games that properly encourage you to explore all moves. TWEWY was of course a godlike example of that but another one that's even more dear to me is Baldr Sky.The sheer creativity it forces out of you by requiring move usage to level them up and unlock new moves is unbelievable.
>>745956547>comboslop
>>745927190Notice that you didn't say it's fun.
>>745956305>>745956686Hur le durrrrrr I am le bot I reply with no context
>>745927190>gameplay-focusedProblem is that the gameplay isn't good enough to pick up the slack for the other parts of the game.
Any Zelda game has better combat than any other game.
>>745956891What’s your favorite ice cream?
>>745956958Cookies and cream
>>745923429There's no such thing as a good ARPG. Action combat is antithesis to RPG stats and vice-versa.
>>745956758Goddamn this bitch is assblasted beyond belief.
>>745957119Source?
>>745927190>Hating Souls games in general is like the biggest proof that /v/ is just a bunch of whiny vaginas.True. Souls became too mainstream for posturing losers.
>>745957174>filename Teachable moment
>>745953182sent that jarpig flying
>>745956372People play ES games for the world, the quests and the porn. Nobody boots up Skyrim because they want to fight Draugr.
>>745957187Me :')
>>745956547Most overrated piece of shit VN and game I've had the displeasure of playing
>>745957267So basically no source. Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence. Ever heard of a study?
>>745957260Because TES is the sum of it's parts and not just good gameplay with lame everything else.
>>745956686On a first glance it does seem like that but the game quickly throws curveballs at you with enemies that can anti air you.Like the combo from my clip is actually ass since the spinner>finger sequence is unsafe. Even if you build something that takes you to the skies, some enemies still have answers to that.
>>745957356>>745957340What the LLM
>>745923429Souls games had good RPG combat before Bloodborne. It became nothing but a mashing mess afterwards where your build barely mattered and it was just rollslop.
>>745956372I am sure what "people" play is of utmost importance to you. Even more important than having fun.
>>745955107Windrose is a recent example of this. I never used auto targeting because you have to run in circles and kite enemy groups before you gain levels/gear and just face tank stuff.
>>745957518Rollspamming was at its easiest in Demons Souls and Dark Souls 1
>>745957518If that was true you wouldn’t be in this thread. Humiliation ritual. Whoops!!! You done fucked up there champ. Nice one, mate.
>>745957432Nah kys subhuman. There's nothing you can say to convince me baldr sky was a good game. One of the most abhorrent visual novels in terms of writing and pacingSome nigger anon shilled it to me comparing it to God Hand so I was really excited to play it only to find out the combat was jank and the only similarity was the ability to choose combo moves. But enemies weren't threatening. Not only that but combat segments during the story discourage experimentation because if you take too long or play like shit you are forced to watch female characters get sexually harassed if not raped. So I just played optimally (=boring)Just bad game design all around. Chinatsu is worst girlI fucking hate the overly long flash backs, generic villains and plot fuck you whoever shilled Baldr Sky. I hope you kill yourself it's nowhere near as good as god hand. Even Steins gate was a better read KYS
>>745923993Immunity frames makes combat look so retarded holy shit.
>>745957756>enemies weren't threateningshould've played on very hard.
>>745957756>>745957756What the actual LLM is this slop
>>745923429>action RPG rly, nigger? Answer is any. even poo.
>>745956372Because most people are tasteless retards. Just because most people like something doesn't mean it's good unless you're the type of retard that thinks pop music is good because it's popular.>>745957386All TES games are basically game frameworks that COULD be good if modders fix all the core problems with the base game, something Bethesda realized a long time ago and why they don't even try to make the games good outside the exploration and the basic quests. No one has ever said the combat in Elder Scroll games (i.e. one of the most important parts of an ACTION RPG) is good execpt tasteless retards that only play TES games like you. even fucking Germanjank like Gothic and Two Worlds manages to make combat that is at least interestingly bad or actually good in some respects (and long periods of time taken to master it). bethesda just sucks at making good combat.
>>745955108Only dagger classes use dodge roll. Warriors tank things or just move out of the way. Sword classes use a shield and staff classes jump or also move out of the way
>>745957610What kind of nonsensical reply is this?
>>745923429None. Only turn based RPGs have good combat.
Only experimental fighters have good combat.
>>745942152Don't even disagree that much.
>>745929321>lustful unrelated imageThe mark of someone with a shitty take that wants to improve it with a halo effect.
Today I learned that there is not a single good action game in existence.
>>745958512Drakan: The Order of the Flame
>>745958112>Because most people are tasteless retards. Just because most people like something doesn't mean it's good unless you're the type of retard that thinks pop music is good because it's popular.And yet people would rather put the time into creating and downloading mods for TES, instead of just buying supposedly better games that don't need mods. Think about that, a game being so fun that people would rather put in a little of extra effort to make it even more fun, rather than buying a new game. And they've been doing this for nearly 15 fucking years.>All TES games are basically game frameworks that COULD be good if modders fix all the core problems with the base game, something Bethesda realized a long time ago and why they don't even try to make the games good outside the exploration and the basic quests.Except they are good, which is why modders even stick around in the first place. And TES is not an ARPG, it's a first-person rpg. Action combat is not and never was, what TES has ever tried to be about.
>>745931195>A parry explicitly opens up a vulnerabilityJust because some games offer the player a comeback for a skillful maneuver doesn't mean the definition of a parry implies a counter by default, be it in games or real life.A deflect just redirects a blade so that it misses.Depending on the parry it either does the same, stops the blade entirely and/or opens up a counter.
>>745923429I really like the early tales of games, Destiny DC is super good. Raidou 2 is also pretty good gameplay wise, Raidou 1 remastered is less good than 2 but better than the original. I don't hate rollslop though so this question doesn't apply to me
>>745923429I can't find the YouTube video of a man saying elden ring sucks because it's all about "dodge-attack, dodge-attack" but that's what I wanted to post
>>745958686>downloading mods for TESThat's more fun than actually playing TES. You download a couple of mods and then don't actually play the game kek
>>745923429super mario 64more games should let you stomp on the enemy
>>745958935I don't think that's an rpg.
>>745930169I can't put my finger on it but this gay flashy shit is exactly what I expect a tranime weeb game to behave.
>>745958896And people would rather do that than play other RPGs? Those other games must be horrifically bad.
>>745952036I like KH alot but we don't need to act like it's some infallible masterpiece. The games are for the most part, very simple execution wise for example. revenge values exist because keeping a combo going is braindead easy to do, so bosses NEED RVs to break out of combos otherwise you'd win on one touch every time. the best boss fights are also almost always the optional superbosses, with the campaign balance being generally too easy. not to mention the games lack any kind of difficulty outside of critical mode. The boss/encounter design is really good when it wants to be, but otherwise the games are pretty simple button mashers.
>>745958969of course it is you play the role of mario in the game
>>745958686>And yet people would rather put the time into creating and downloading mods for TES, instead of just buying supposedly better games that don't need mods. Because it's popular. Mods are created because the games are popular, meaning the mod creator will get more clout by making mods for it. Again, you're making a retarded argument based on the population of a game, not the actual quality of it.>Think about that, a game being so fun that people would rather put in a little of extra effort to make it even more fun, rather than buying a new game. And they've been doing this for nearly 15 fucking years.TES games are not fun. Even normalfags stopped playing Skyrim after a couple months because the honeymoon period ended and they realized it was pretty dire in terms of quality.>Except they are good, which is why modders even stick around in the first place. >The game's good because it's good enough to mod, which means it's goodStop coping dude. The most popular mods for Skyrim are porn mods. No one plays the TES games for their combat, which is dreadfully bad. even Soulslikes/rollslop games put more thought into that than bethesda does about anything outside of their games looking good.The fact that the game even needs mods to play well tells you all you need to know about the "quality" of the TES games. You can play the Dragma Balls games, Dark Messiah and E.Y.E. without mods and have a hell of a time with the combat. Skyrim's and Oblivion's combat is meant to be cheesed with modifiers that make the game piss easy so you can skip the combat and go back to exploring the world and doing quests. Morrowind less so but the dice-roll combat is dogshit. The TES games just suck in terms of their actual combat.
>>745958043i see this webm get posted by discord trannies, but i dont get what's supposed to be wrong here? are nimble enemies supposed to just let you blast them with ranged attacks like you do to big enemies? why is it that when contrarian discord faggots complain about souls games it's always because they're a shitter? like they're always complaining about "rollslop" because they want enemies to be slow as shit like in ds1 or ds2 and be able to strafe around their attacks or some shit.
>>745930284I beat almost every boss on the first try, and I chose my equipment for aesthetics not efficiency.Unironically git gud. Work on them reflexes son. Do some pushups and take a walk cuz your brain is getting fat lmao
The final redpill is if you want a game with good combat, you have to look to 2D, not 3D.
>>745959491stop shilling, nigger. nobody gives a shit about a troon game.
>>745959125Play them without mods because the game designers didn't half-ass their job in making an engaging combat system.
>>745958686>>745959491Both of you are fucking retarded.
>>745959491>good combat is when you mindlessly mash the attack button and occasionally dash to the side when the boss does an extremely telegraphed attackholy fucking shit, that looks bad as fuck. thank god i didnt get suckered by you faggots again into buying silksong. hollow knight was overrated as shit. you couldve at least fucking used a better boss as an example in your webm. i know for a fact that nightmare king grimm is a better example. at least that dude actually checked your reaction time and threw in mix ups. jesus fucking christ, you anti-fromsoft discord trannies are browner than jeets and seaniggers combined.
>not a single mention of Ys ittGrim. Oath in Felghana and Origin on the highest difficulty easily mog most of the games in here.
>>745923429Not necessarily good but head and shoulders above rollslop: Nioh 2, Khazan, Dragon Nest, Sifu, Devil May Cry (while it has good combat, the bosses roster on 3 4 and 5 are quite shit).
>>745923429Leave it to From Software to turn their broken jank combat mechanics that are slow, clunky, and swing like molasses to be sold as a feature and then gaslight a majority of grorious nippon and a bunch of self flagellating sweats to actually like and enjoy this style of game; start an entire genre because you can't do anything fucking else. Cancel an in-development version of tenchu because ol' Tanaka Nobunga can't fucking help himself but put the jank ass recycled combat into what was supposed to be a stealth centric game and had to redesign and call it something else. Then you get other fags in the industry who think this is a great idea and decide to copy the bad combat formula and implement it for themselves.This must be how MMO players felt watching devs copy ruined and sloppy everquest when they kept throwing the shit post tigole in it.
>>745954669OG MH4 didn't come to the states because they figured it'd be better to just wait and release 4U, get more sales on the one game. XX being japan exclusive for awhile was the more baffling choice IMO
>>745959407>Because it's popular. Mods are created because the games are popular, meaning the mod creator will get more clout by making mods for it. Again, you're making a retarded argument based on the population of a game, not the actual quality of it.This is pure cope. People have been making mods for TES games for over two decades. What clout was there to chase in the early 2000s when nexus was ran by a teenager you retard. And to make an even bigger fool out of you, look at BG3, almost double Skyrim's daily peak, yet the majority of mods are lame armors and gay ass poses. Meanwhile Skyrim's mods go engine deep, overhaul the gameplay, aesthetics, new functions, lore friendly armor/weapon packs, audio overhauls, town overhauls, new landmasses, quests and new gameplay systems. And before you pull out the "Skyrim is older" cope, Falskaar came out 2yrs after Skyrim launched and Requiem was 7 months.>TES games are not fun. Even normalfags stopped playing Skyrim after a couple months because the honeymoon period ended and they realized it was pretty dire in terms of quality.Are you a schizo or something? You just said it only got mods because it was popular, but now you're saying even normalfags dropped it? So even when normalfags are leave, Skyrim is still far superior than whatever shitty game you like?>Stop coping dude. The most popular mods for Skyrim are porn mods. No one plays the TES games for their combat, which is dreadfully bad. even Soulslikes/rollslop games put more thought into that than bethesda does about anything outside of their games looking good.Factually incorrect.Of the top 60 most popular mods on Nexus, only 7 of them could called porn mods, and 2 of the 7 aren't even explicit, they can just be used in porn mods. >You can play the Dragma Balls games, Dark Messiah and E.Y.E. without mods and have a hell of a time with the combat. And yet people would rather play TES, keep coping faggot.
>>745960465I am not reading all this, but you aren't helping the allegations that you are doing anything but coping.I don't concede shit pre-emptively. I just think you have dogshit taste to think that TES games have good combat and I'm laughing at you for it.
>>745959828As opposed to what you do in 3D action games which is mindlessly mash the attack button while avoiding enemy attacks with janky hitboxes.
>>745959609>Beating up practice dummies>Engaging
>>745960628>TES games have good combatNow, please show me where I said that, because the only thing I've said was that TES is not an ARPG.
>>745960813the reward for being at good at combat in most action games is turning enemies into practice dummies. the reward for skilled play is usually putting enemies in a state where they cannot harm you, or positioning in a way to prevent other enemies from attacking you easily.
>>745960813Even if cyclopses are easy as fuck, they can still fuck you up if you act like a retard. That's the entire point of engaging combat: it's easy if you actually apply yourself but not so easy that they can't fuck you up if you don't.>>745960952That's all i wanted you to say. the TES games have shit combat.>because the only thing I've said was that TES is not an ARPG.It literally is. It's not turn-based and it isn't active time.
I just the gameplay loop to be engaging in some way, it doesn't need good combat. I don't like the Lies of P combat system because its too mashy but the overall gameplay loop and the environments I go through are good enough that its engaging as a package
Rollslop is fine if its in the service of something else. My favorite part of rollslop games are the environments and the feel of the weapons, not the flashy combat system.So if I can rollslop my way to juicy weapon attack sounds and fun exploration, I will like the rollslop. If the rest of the game is shit and uninteresting AND its rollslop, yeah I will hate the rollslop
>>745961032>>745961052So what does being good in DD look like, because the only thing I've seen is stationary enemies being hit or using a simple skill action that takes no mechanical skill.>It literally is. It's not turn-based and it isn't active time.It's not. ARPGs are a genre with a clear design choice, player skill > character skill. The only time that is applicable in TES is aiming your magic/bows.
>>745961596being good at DD1 in particular usually looks like someone eating 4 periapts and oneshotting shit with a skill, my skill of choice was the sanic spin on the daggers.
>>745961596You have yet to see you post any TES combat, which tells me you aren't even confident in your shitposting to put up or shut up.> The only time that is applicable in TES is aiming your magic/bows.i doubt that, plus there is a ranger/strider class and a mage/sorcerer class in DD where you do the essentially same thing. I, a Hyborean Aryan schizo, only choose classes that can use swords or longswords so that's all the footage I share. That and PAWG pawns
>>745962235TES doesn't have good combat, I don't know why you're so obsessed with something you imagined I said.>i doubt that, plus there is a ranger/strider class and a mage/sorcerer class in DD where you do the essentially same thing. I, a Hyborean Aryan schizo, only choose classes that can use swords or longswords so that's all the footage I share. That and PAWG pawnsAh, you're just a schizo who makes things up for the sake of arguing.
>>745923429>fromslop gamers need to compare their game against something over 20 years old to feel good about their decisionkek
>>745948418Running away from enemies is goyslop.
>>745962840>TES doesn't have good combat, I don't know why you're so obsessed with something you imagined I said.This entire conversation was about the combat in the TES game, which is known to be shit and what I was talking about the entire time you daft cunt. I know the exploration and quests are good, but the combat fucking sucks so for me, I hate them. I couldn't imagine a retard like you, dumb enough to argue about something I didn't say and then call someone else a schizo when you're the idiot imagining things the other person said.>Ah, you're just a schizo who makes things up for the sake of arguing.or maybe it's just a shitpost (and a mightily convenient out for a dumbass like you to stop arguing about nothing). The point about the magic and ranged combat being more or less the same in both TES and DD still stands though.>You're a schizo so I won't post
the only good fantasy combat is turn-based crpg
>>745953453Every game would be improved by adding rpg mechanics.
>>745961596>So what does being good in DD look likehttps://youtube.com/watch?v=ixi46haQRhU&list=PLd-bzBjec7oGcvhHxa1Y__4NbLYvAqc_h&index=2&pp=iAQB
>hates on Fromsoft>plays Kingdom Heartslmao, this was a good thread
Kenshi.>butyes
>>745923993LOL
I prefer blockslop.
>>745964908Shield needs to protect against 100% damage, regardless of perfect block or normal, and not use stamina.
Is Mortal Shell 2 good? It looks good because it doesnt seem like stiff, no-movement-allowed trash like - Stellar Blade, Lies of P and Khazan>b...but you can teleport behind the enemy in Stellar Blade if you press theShut up retard
>>745959452Your game's boring.
>>745965051MS2 is slower paced and heavier at least with the weapons you find at the start. Somewhere aroun Lies of P and LOTF2023
>>745960297>Cancel an in-development version of tenchu because ol' Tanaka Nobunga can't fucking help himself but put the jank ass recycled combat into what was supposed to be a stealth centric game and had to redesign and call it something else.And it lead to them making the best game of all time.
>>745923429Only the most delusional of the morrowind fans claim its combat is good
>>745937159the fun is in *making* the build that lets you do that. combat is just filler
>>745957817I struggled with souls games for a long, long time because I thought dodging meant dodging out of attacks, away from attack, making space. It took me an embarrassingly amount of time to learn you're supposed to iframe through attacks and when I learned that I stopped playing souls games.
>>745965186It's boring because out of 250 enemy types around 10-15 have an instant doge move against regular projectiles? Even though there's slow homing magic, delayed glintblade magic, hitscan beam magic and invisible magic that 100% counter this.
>>745965389>the fun is from not playing the game
>>745965398Depends on the attack, the dodge can be used for spacing, stafing around enemues as well as iframing things.Things get insteresting once you get an eye for gound stomp attacks and sweeping attacks that are super easy to jump, especially because jumping removes the hitboxes for your legs till you land, so they're very forgiving as long as the attack doesn't have vertical motion.
>>745965029>shields should make me immortal and I should be able to block foreverno
>>745925669Nioh is rollslop for the unemployed.
>>745961596>ARPGs are a genre with a clear design choice, player skill > character skill.Diablo and Path of Exile are arpgs.
>>745965453ARPGs are about stacking numbers and minmaxxing your character, that IS the game
>>745965629Not really no. In my limited experience (most of ds1, half of ds2, most of ds3, most of bloodborne, half of elden dogshit) if you don't iframe through attacks the attack will always hit you. Magnetism gets too strong particularly in ds3 when enemies would do 180s and 360s to hit me. I specifically remember dragonslayer armor in ds3 jumping, I roll twice to get behind him and he does a 180 midair to spin around and slam his shield into me, I'm ackshually pretty sure I posted that webm before. I've seen anons mention how you can tell someone is a noob at souls because they dodge away from attacks kek.
I screamed KINO when I saw ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA-R4mlrNWU
>>745930169I lile Granblue Fantasy Versus and briefly considered getting this. Glad I didn't.
>>745962937
>>745964190KH has way more interesting and complex combat than any Souls game. And I don't even dislike FROM games at all.
>>745965940No, bad RPGs are about that. RPGs are not about builds and top-down games are not RPGs.
Most attacks don't have any tracking after they launch and the hitbox becomes active. Your problem is that you're pre-rolling way early during the wind up anim not when the the hit comes.
>>745966294I accept your concession
>>745923429What i got from this thread is that turn based > action, you faggots bitched about every single action game in the thread
>>745959452NTA but looks to me like a shallow veil of intelligence that completely shatters if the player goes off-script.
>>745933146>Look at MarioI fucking knew it was a Nintroondie, only those retards could have such a braindead take.
>>745966424ARPGs, i.e., isometric ARPGs are a distinct genre of RPG that are about exactly that. if you lump action games with RPG mechanics like elden ring into that category i get it, but thats a wrong genre definition
A good action rpg needs to incorporate game mechanic buffs throughout your builds. If you can’t increase your parry frames, hyperarmor, movement speed, jump height, all this stuff, it’s bad.
>>745966610the people bitching about rolllslop and fromslop are kingdom hearts fans lmao.this thread has been eye opening
>>745966802DXM2 does this and it's hilariously bad and janky
>>745966802That its dumb, that time they did that with DS2 it felt more like you had to add stats into adaptation or Attunement just for the game to not feel like shit instead of getting a advantage
>>745966924>>745967226The there’s literally no point to making it an RPG at all. My bandit shouldn’t have the same movement speed and acrobatics as a guy wearing plate armor with a halberd. That guy should be able to spam spin attacks in place more easily and have stronger jump and plunge attacks.
>>745923429The framing of the question is wrong, because the issue isnt whether the combat is good or bad. Its a matter of what other aspects are being marginalized in favor of a focus on big flashy boss fightsNormally when I argue about aspects of ER I preferred in other games, I'm comparing to the older games. Theres a very clear delineation pre- and post-bloodborne. DeS, DaS1, and DaS2 were about more than just boss fights. Boss fights were ONE aspect of a level's design. There was more focus on overcoming the challenge of clearing a level, getting through a grueling stretch of tough enemies, traps, mazes, etc. And at the end, needing to beat a boss. But that boss was part of the level. It wasn't two separate things where first you just clear a level and then you independently clear a boss, you had to perfect how you get through a level so you were 100% for the boss, and there were stakes when fighting the boss because failure meant needing to beat a tough level again. You had to do both.Perfect example of this is shrine of storms. Old Hero is a good boss, but old hero by himself isnt anything special. But the combination of getting all the way through the tough gauntlet of 4-2 AND THEN also needing to get through this boss fight is what made it special.Games like DaS3 and especially ER have way too much focus on boss fights, and the levels end up taking a back seat. Sure places like stormveil might be impressive in their scope, but they weren't difficult. Level design in ER often feels totally phoned in. The only legacy dungeon that had even a bit of that feeling was mohg's sewers. And some of those challenging dungeon design aspects were relegated to a tiny few instances in the hero's grave dungeons.
>>745966424>top-down games are not RPGsRetard. FUCKING retard.
>>745967517>But that boss was part of the level. It wasn't two separate things where first you just clear a level and then you independently clear a boss, you had to perfect how you get through a level so you were 100% for the boss, and there were stakes when fighting the boss because failure meant needing to beat a tough level again. You had to do both.That only REALLY applied to DeS, barring crazy shit like blue Smelter Demon and Lud/Zallen runbacks most of DS1 and DS2 runbacks were chill as fuck, lets take 2 "hard" levels from DS1, Blighttown and Anor Londo, in Blighttown you had to at most dodge some bugs and boom you got into Quelaag's cave, same for Anor Londo, even wtihouth the ladder skip you at most had to kill 3 silver knights then dodge the big ones and done you're in smough and ornstein's room, the only really bad one in DS1 was the bed of chaos runback but that one you still at most had to dodge a titanite demon and walk a bit with no danger
>>745923429my game's fun and doesn't rely on dodge rolls, check it out:>https://tintodev.itch.io/project-goblin
>>745967517>DeS, DaS1, and DaS2 were about more than just boss fights.Lol>There was more focus on overcoming the challenge of clearing a level, getting through a grueling stretch of tough enemies, traps, mazes, etc.LMAOYou people should actually play the games you're trying to glaze, Souls level design barely existed until ER added an actual jump button
>>745969198How do you even come up with this bullshit? It's ok if you don't like something but to just make up random shit like this is weird
>>745969389I'm not the contrarian living in an alternate reality, especially when ER reuses the same tired ideas they've been copypasting ever since DeS.It's laughable to glaze something like fucking DS1 level "design" while shitting on ER when there's literally yet another Anor Londo archer section in the very beginning of the Haligtree or say that you miss DeS' level design while shitting on DS3 which LITERALLY reuses most of DeS with things like Lothric being Boletaria 2.0 or the Irythill dungeon being Latria 2.0.I thank god that I'm one of the few long time posters in this place that got to his 40s without turning into a deluded, bitter contrarian pseud.
>>745969198My question is why did FromSoft take 6 games to finally add a manual jump option to Souls.
>>745969767FROM has always been exceedingly afraid of making radical changes to their few winning formulas.It took them over 10 entries to actually elaborate on Armored Core's formula and make meaningful changes and additions, King's Field games are the same to the point that Shadow Tower Abyss was the first and only game in the series that actually tried something new unless you count the Additional spinoffs being something completely off brand.Right now the Souls formula is in the same place AC was during the shift from Gen 3 to Gen 4.
