CRPG thread
>>749485251based arkanum enjoyer
started realms of arkania recently. very cool but dense and a lot to learn
>>749485251wrpg*that's not a clasic rpg
Which CRPGs have the best romances? Šost your top 5!
>>749486389i don't think i've ever seen a romance in a videogame that wasn't embarassing
love these scorpion guys like you wouldn't believe>cast terror>stunlock enemies>hardy
>>749485687I love NWN but the text box is so dang small, man.
>>749485687>>749487110The Steam remaster has UI scaling.
>>749485687i have to replay this, evil run was so sick with making him my bitch plus blackguard aribeth pussy on tap
>>749485251How high level is WotR's plot and setting? As in, is the campaign primarily dealing with mundane and mortal world, or more like that one NWN expansion where you literally go to hell?>>749485687Never played 2, was it better or worse than the first one?
>>749485476brat, needs spellhold correction
Anyone here played necromancers tale?If yes, any insights into what kind of chatacter builds are fun?
>>7494886282?
>>749485476Cheating whore…
>>749488628>or more like that one NWN expansion where you literally go to hell?The entirety of the fourth act takes place in Alushinyrra which is a city in the Abyss. In that same act you also start fighting (and killing) demigods
>>749488952Yes
playing shadows of urinetide, the game gave my sorc companion two levels barb, what the fuck is he getting from those?
>>749488628WotR's like a gay mix. You do go to hell but it's less interesting.
>>749488868Yes, but I never finished it. Way too much padding and running around and unity jank, it became unbearable after a certain point.I don't remember there being any specific builds or shit like that. I just played a scholar.
>>749488868Can you disable the painterly effect? It looks like shite. If so, can you post a screenshot of how the game looks without it?>>749489005that screenshot if from the first game
>>749485251That was not in the game. He asks 500 gold for all the trash he stole from the mayor.
>>749489152>that screenshot if from the first gameYes, I'm aware
They are working on a sequel of Colony Ship. Looks cool from what I've seen.
>>749489346isn't it a battle brothers clone? or is that something else
>>749489152>Can you disable the painterly effect? It looks like shite.Yes, one of the first things I did. I was going to refund it if you couldn't, I'm not sure why they thought making everything look like it has the waterpixel filter was a good idea. After you turn it off it just looks like generic unity assets.
>>749489674that's much betterhaving that shit on by default is certainly a choice
>>749489848I liked it more desuThink the dev was just trying to obscure the pretty generic assets
>>749489226it's a sex mod
>>749485251
>>7494886282 is kino
>>749486389The best one for me is still the first one I encountered, Jaheira in BG2.but it's the best of a really bad pack.
I'm kinda bored of my fighter cleric build in nwn but I don't want to go through act 1 again
>>749485476My sister Imoen is so cute...
>>749491579Jaheira was my first waifu too, seeing her as a granny in 3 got me all sorts of depressed. At least she wasn't really character assassinated like Viconia or flanderized like Minsc.
>>749487063Man, I forgot how kino this game was.If only a genetic splicing summoner game were possible to make with modern graphics. Probably with AI technology, one day.
>>749491858>flanderized like MinscMinsc is exactly the same as he was in the original games
>>749491886there's that RTS game where you splice animal genes together, but i guess you already know that game
>>749491858>flanderized like MinscWas Minsc not always a le epic bacon reddit meme character? I killed him pretty quick in all 3 games so I definitely missed stuff but he didn't seem ooc in 3
>>749486389najdi si curu luzeru
Are you guys excited for the first VTM CRPG?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_zshBWxK_4Looks like they are going the BG3 route, where everything requires a d10 roll.
>>749485251Oh cool a baldur's gate 3 thread
>>749489598never played battle brothers. is it good?
>>749492137>narrative drivenMore disco-slop, there's no way this will be good
>>749485476Is this original dialogue?
>>749489598nocolony ship is more like a fallout lite clone. there's a story, factions and fixed, non generated companions to recruitbattle brothers is more of a sandbox type turn-based warband kind of thing
do I play wizard or sorcerer in OG NWN?
>>749492137Everything requiring a roll is way less retarded when you're using a dice pool system and not a fucking d20 though.
>>749485251OP image looks like a less fun Dink Smallwood.
>>749485251>CRPG This genre is not fun
>>749485476Gosh. Being a pure paladin and being surrounded by naughty brats would be terrible... Haha...
>>749492365i meant the upcoming game. i was thinking of Heralds of the Third Apocalypse. this is the first i've heard of a colony ship sequel
>>749492425Sorcerer is easier but less powerful half of the time pre-epic, plus no bonus feats. When you get into Epic Sorc is better at the casting while Wizard has way more skill points.
>>749485594>Realms of ArkaniaI played the third one a lot as a kid. It was the most difficult but also most rewarding game. Each time I got a little further I felt so good about myself. Never finished it. I should try playing it as a adult and see if I've improved or regressed.
>>749492425Always wizard.
>>749492729I might go wizard for the versatility then. Epic levels I'm guessing will come at the end of SoU or into Hordes so I don't want to spend the whole first expansion not having a great time. I'm skipping the base game because everyone says it sucks.
>>749487063I need to start Avernum 2. This is the game by the same devs, right? The Geneforge..or something? I finished Avernum 1 at the start of the year and i really enjoyed it The final mission was such bullshit with the infinite enemies
>>749492137I really hate Disco-slop's reliance on a single faggot companion following you around. Kim was fine in DE but god damnit, stop doing this shit.
>>749492570It can be hard, like me when I see Sakura
>>749492570>>749485251>CRPGThis genre is fun
>>749492341Yes, it's actual party banter in the game. There's also one where Viconia is lusting after Sarevok, even if you romance her.Though the best one, of course, is when Aerie is giving birth in ToB.
>>749491858Does Larian just not understand how elves age in D&D, or does BG3 take place like 500 years after the events of BG2?
>>749491858>seeing her as a granny in 3 got me all sorts of depressedAnon, she's around 170 years old by that point, which is the tail end for a half-elf. She also outright discusses using the Timeless Body ritual to prolong her lifespan, though she's still considering it - after all, she KNOWS there's an afterlife waiting, along with Khalid.
>>749495410Jaheira is a half-elf, anon. They live around 150-180 years, and BG3 takes place 135 years after BG2. She was around 40 years old when you meet her in BG1, having been married to Khalid for 20 years at that point.
>>749495449Pretty sure 120 is adulthood for elves bro.
>>749495519Again, see >>749495517 - she's a HALF-ELF.
>>749485476Genuine cringe.
>>749492879Yeah, you reach epic in chapter 2 of HotU.
>>749495517What the fuck even happened in faerun for 135 years, why do they even progress the timeline that far? Also if that's the case how is Minsc even still alive?
>>749495519HALF-elf.
Fact: NWN SoU and HotD are the only games that actually feel like a DND campaign.
>>749495410Jaheira is a half-elf. They only live to like 150.
>>749495604Minsc was a statue for most of it.
>>749495683False, NWN2's OC feels exactly like a low rent D&D campaign from a bad DM, even down to the rocks falling at the end to kill a party he clearly doesn't like.
>>749485251God, I hate geeks.
>>749495604A lot of bullshit. 4th edition happened, and then was promptly soft-retconned because the lore went full retard.Minsc stayed the same because he was turned into a statue or some shit. They thought it was just a statue so they put it in the town square as a fountain, and eventually he got unpetrified, but I forget how.
>>749495604Mostly an apocalyptic event known as "Spellplague" and its aftermath. Baldur's Gate was actually spared and ballooned in size due to refugees because CHARNAME protected it.As to >>749495604 >>749495698 in the case of Minsc, it's a bit complicated, because some sources say he was petrified into a statue, but the comic series where we actually see him brought back to life somewhat implies the wild magic that did it actually created a "born from a wish" simulacrum.
>>749485251Which crpgs besides IWD, NVN and BG have good mods?
>>749495698>>749495685This all is beginning to sound like they specifically pushed the timeline to make her a granny which is a very odd choice.
>>749495815fallout 2, shadowrun reboots sorta
>>749495815ToEE. Dungeon Siege has a couple of really good mods too.
>>749495839They probably pushed the timeline so they wouldn't have to deal with CHARNAME and most of the other party members, not to specifically make Jaheira a granny.
>>749495779>spellplagueWhat the fuck were they thinking?I also always found it funny how Elminster retained his powers despite them coming from the magic goddess who was now dead, and from a Weave that no longer existed. Ed Greenwood is a fucking retard, "ermmm my self insert just still has his powers ok???"
>>749495976>What the fuck were they thinking?>"how do we explain the transition to 4th edition in universe"
>>749495976>What the fuck were they thinking?They were having a good brainwave and accurately realized just how shitty 3E era FR was to adventure in if you ran it as written and how it didn't make any god damn sense if you put the fluff up against the mechanics.Killing off all of the stupid OC donutsteels who could do your job times a thousand with a single fart was a GOOD thing.
>>749495839They didn't. Murder in Baldur's Gate (the first AP that was to lead into 5e) had already chosen that timeframe. It included people like Wyll's dad and Charname killing and being killed by the meme teleporting Bhaalspawn guy from 2. I think it predates BG3's announcement by several years, because BG3 happens right after Out of the Abyss, and includes some of the shit that happened in that AP, mainly the Tiefling refugees. My guess is that the timeline simply coincided with the latest AP release, since they were working closely with WOTC at that time.
>>749485251KOTOR is the only game in this genre I could enjoy.
>>749495964This entire conversation is reminding me how retarded Faerun is. I guess Volo is immortal as well since he should be older than Jaheira and there's probably some convoluted and retarded reason for him to be a young man in BG3.
>>749485251I really need to go back and play this at some point. I couldn't get it at the time it released, then other things came up. Never got around to it.
>>749496021I mean yeah, but why didn't they just make it simple like 2e to 3e's transition?>>749496092I guess. But again, Elminster wasn't affected, so what the fuck was up with that? Then they backpedalled and everyone came back for 5e lmao. Well, almost everyone.
trash genre until somebody has the balls to give us a halfling girl romance
>>749496272Because this was the same Wizards of the Coast that made 4th edition, they weren't very bright
>>749496228Mystra stapled the Weave to him so the Spellplague couldn't happen again and I guess that gave him weird longevity
>>749496784It really is interesting just how far ahead of its time that game was. Fuck EA for making the series backslide so hard from it.
>>749496272>Then they backpedalled and everyone came back for 5e lmao.Because both the Forgotten Realms setting creator and one of the biggest authors for the setting RA Salvatore hated the 4e changes to the setting, and they planned for how they would set things back on course once (they believed, and were shown to be correct) WotC realized that what they did didn't work for fans of the setting and needed to fix things.I'm talking specifically how Forgotten Realms was handled in 4e, not the gameplay system or any other settings (4e Eberron was actually fine).
>>749497129I checked a wiki and apparently there's that and Elminster locked him in stasis for a century or some shit. So retarded.
>>749497206>(4e Eberron was actually fine).>allowed anyone to have any dragonmark regardless of race
>>749497206Fans of the setting weren't the ones buying. Setting books sold like SHIT in 3E, to the point where there's a comment by a developer telling them not to make setting lore books and instead make mechanics books because they sold better.
>>749489346>They are working on a sequel of Colony ShipWhere are you getting this from? They're working on Heralds of the Third Apocalypse, a bronze age setting with all sorts of sword and sorcery shit.
>>749485251I've tried twice to make this game work on W10 and it always crashes
>>749497401It was presented as a "typically all of a specific dragonmark are of X race" but it didn't explicitly prohibit it for a player character.
>>749497206> RA Salvatore hated the 4e changes to the settingI can buy it. Having been reading through the Drizzt series this year he basically wrote around it.
>>749497420But it's more than just the game books, you have novels and related media to worry about and fans of the setting didn't care for it.
I wanted to play NWN2 for the expansion written by Avellone but the gameplay seemed weird as fuck, wish they just made it an infinity engine game.
>>749497548R.A. Salvatore:>Fourth edition, it was a shock. ... I am sitting there thinking, well, 140-year-old humans don't fight very well. ... I actually wrote a long letter to Wizards, ..., and said please don't do this. There are other ways to accomplish what you want. ...>When Ed Greenwood and I walked out of that meeting back in 2006, when we were told about the reboot for fourth edition, Ed looked at me and I thought he was going to start crying. I mean, these were his Realms, that had been taken away from him essentially by this big change. And he said to me what are we going to do? And I said, we are going to be smarter than them. We are going to think long term. ... We started planning back in 2006 how we were going to fix it for them.The Second Sundering changes between 4e and 5e for the FR were largely from them.
is the remastered release of NWN 2 still bugged to shit?
>>749485594great game. if you have any questions, just ask.
>>749497585Those sold about as much as they always did, going from leaked marketing breakdowns from I think 2013.
>>749497830This is from an archived interview from 2013. Starts at the 11:40 markhttps://archive.org/details/SALEp131
>>749497830>There are other ways to accomplish what you want. ...No there wasn't you stupid nigger. How the fuck are you supposed to clear the slate of NPCs so adventurers actually have a point? How are you supposed to reintroduce areas that don't have piles of lore written about them, and break the status quo of retardedly powerful NPC wizards that can bend the whole setting over their knee if they want? The Spellplague was the obvious solution, and you didn't have an alternate one other than ignoring the real mechanics of the game like you always did you fucking faggot.
>>749493248Yes the pic is Geneforge. Same dev as Avernum, Avadon and Queen's WishThey are all worth playing imo, though I can't speak for Queen's Wish, haven't tried them yet. Geneforge - single character with summoner galore Exploration happens through mapnodes. Very open ended and free.Avernum - party based (4chars) with an acceptable class variation. Exploration happens through a tilebased time-pass-when-you-move overworld (or underworld really) Somewhat open ended and freeAvadon - single character with two party slots for companions out of a small roster. Exploration happens like in an infinity engine game. Very linear.Queen's Wish, ain't got a clue yet.
>>749498087>No there wasn't you stupid nigger.I don't think R.A. Salvatore is on /v/, anon
>>749498630Of course I'm not
>>749496214Kotor is the most overrated CRPG I've ever played. I liked the second game a bit more but that was also pretty overrated.
>>749498087Majority of Forgotten Realms fans absolutely hated the 4th edition reboot of the Realms, anon. You're a minority. It was the epitome of WotC "we dont' care about tradition or what you loved about the settings, we'll do whatever we want" which they seem to be leaning back into again these days
>>749498630You're right, he's over on >>>/trash/
>>749498734I don't think you understand how much everyone who wasn't a fan of FR hated it.
>>749497936I have a lot of questions, mostly about spell effects, but I want to figure things out myself for now
>>749492570BG2 is the only really good CRPG tbqh
>>749485476Bratty girls love fatherly men...
>>749498946BG1 is better, though the higher level content makes BG2 more fun in combat
>>749499048Malfoid for boomers.
>>749498797The solution wouldn't have been to recreate exactly what was done in Dragonlance a decade earlier and ALSO hated. They should've already known it wouldn't have gone well. Dragonlance pretty much did the same shit after Dragons of Summer Flame. Which to be fair at least that one was done due to the actual authors of the setting and not corporate meddling.
>>749499014Contrarian cope
>>749485476Alright. Keldorn is banned from my next playthrough. I was going to use the Imoen Romance mod next time.Fucking hell, the way they handled her in BG2 is the worst part of the game. Her being a Bhaalspawn breaks so much of the story. You spend so much time struggling to get her back, and then struggling to get back to Athkatla that the game is almost over by the time you're done.
>>749485251https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Dbvg3GVBU
>>749498797Those people had Eberron for what they didn't like about FR though.Eberron didn't have all the high-level NPCs and books all over the place. It was basically an anti-Forgotten Realms.
I just wanted to say that Pillars of Eternity is an awesome CRPG and I highly recommend it.
imagine a crpg but all your party members are bratty mesugaki
>>749499275>Sleeping Aid: The GameThe most boring shit I've ever subjected myself to, fuck off Sawyer.
>>749492697>Gosh. Being a pure paladin and being surrounded by naughty brats would be terrible... Haha...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUqBR6S4i5g
>>749499275It was the game that got me into CRPGs. Amazing art direction too. Not a fan of the sequel though, despite it still looking great.
>>749499261Eberron wasn't out for 4E yet. It was pretty simple. FR was the biggest setting they had, but the amount of people playing D&D > the amount of people playing FR, by a lot.
Do you like summoners in CRPGs?
>>749499594If the summons are good. If it's just gonna fill my screen with trash, I'd rather play as a blasting class.
>>749499275as someone who loved PoE1, i'll admit now that it was only a serviceably fun experience thats also only looked upon fondly nowadays because it was released during a CRPG drought, and right after Bioware left a bad taste in everyone's mouths with how they handled Dragon Age. everyone was calling it a dead genre and PoE1 semi-revived it, even though it was arguably quite mediocre.PoE2 on the other hand is a fucking shitshow. sawyer can eat a bag of dick-shaped crayons for that.
I've been going on what I call my CRPG Odyssey for around the past year. Sometimes taking it slower than others.I took this snap of my list a while ago. Since then, I've finished Arcanum, started on Neverwinter Nights, and picked up Icewind Dale again.I also bought WotR, Rogue Trader, and a handful of others in the humble bundle.Anything else I should add or remove from the list? I'm mostly trying to go in a relative order release wise.So far, BG1 > BG2 > Daggerfall > PS:T > FO1 > Arcanum > NWN > IWD > FO2
>>749499174The remastered Imoen Romance mod is great, just be prepared that she essentially becomes a co-protagonist to the game.
>>749499385crpg but all party memebers are goblins
>>749499524They had their base "Nentir Vale/Dawn War" implied setting for 4e already though. They had no need to fit every round peg into the square hole when they had things that were more suitable for it.It's why the 4e lore was heavily removed before 5e was released, it just wasn't working.
>>749499975Morrowind
>>749500004There is a Goblin party member in Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
>>749499975KOTOR is a good game.
>>749499987>just be prepared that she essentially becomes a co-protagonist to the gameThat's perfect. That's exactly how I've treated her ever since we left Candlekeep. She's the only one I never made leave the party, and I would always reload if she died, regardless of how available our revives are. It's why I was so determined to get her back that I left for chapter 4 severely underleveled. It kind of soured my first experience of the story to be honest. I just wanted the party back together so I could actually play the game.
>>749500139I should have probably included my RPG Iliad in this.I played a heavily modded Skyrim, which made me want to give a more complete chance to Morrowind. I'd completed it in the past, but I always felt like I was leaving large sections of the game unplayed, so this time I spent a month scraping every last bit of content that I could out of the game, and only wanted more.That's what inspired me to start searching for more RPGs with heavy emphasis on calculations and number based decisions.
>>749499975Tyranny is good and shorter than most CRPGs if you don't want to commit to another 60 hour playthrough
>>749499975If you enjoyed Fallout you can also give the Wasteland games a try
>>749499975Knights of the Chalice 1. 2 if you enjoy 1. 2 is a much better game but it veers HEAVILY into autism territory.
>>749500004>obligated to "civilize">every single goblin pictured is already wearing gear that is only possible in an advanced civilization>every single goblin has perfectly maintained hair that you'd only see in civilized world>a fucking goblin mage, meaning high intelligence which generally means highly civilized
>>749500586then just swap civilise with breed
>>749500025There's every reason to fit a setting to actually work with the system you're running it off of, and WotC was contractually obligated to continue writing FR material. Why would you release a setting that doesn't work with your system?
>>749500586>>a fucking goblin mage, meaning high intelligence which generally means highly civilizedMight be a sorcerer, in which case she can be as dumb as a rock.
>>749500751she has a floating tome and eyeglasses, I rest my case
>>749500696>There's every reason to fit a setting to actually work with the system you're running it off ofLore changes were not at all "necessary to work with the system you're running it off of". At all.
>>749500964Please think about the actual direction of D&D 4E before you say that.
>>749495604>What the fuck even happened in faerun for 135 yearsThe 3rd, 4th, and 5th editions happened, along with the games.Practically two world-cataclysmic events happened, which were the Spellplague after the death of Mystra (3RD EDITION) and the Second Sundering, which was a remedy to the Spellplague. The Sundering, like the first and the faggots of Bhaalspawns, happened again when the gods returned as beings on Toril, and they did this to resurrect Mystra and Helm again, as their essence was brought down and their avatars ascended (4TH EDITION MOVING INTO 5TH EDITION)Neverwinter Nights and the Wailing Death plague happened, which nearly wracked the city and threatened to spread across the Sword Coast. A being called the King of Shadows appeared from the Planes of Shadow right during the Era of Upheaval/before the Second Sundering and threatened to plunge the Sword Coast into war.The abandoned, ancient, ruined Elven City of Myth Drannor suddenly reignites, and the Pool of Radiance is suddenly activated by a powerful ancient Dracolich. The Pool of Radiance is a well that contains potent sources of arcane energy and raw magic where most of the magic from the weave coalesces and was contained by High Elf fags. With the Pool fo Radiance activated, and by something that evil, the well was being used to power necromancy that would suddenly rise the dead into massive armies, even in the midst of battle, that were threatening to destroy everything around it and across the landscape of Faerûn.The funniest thing is, I find it hilarious how that faggot Elminster has his nose in all of these events. That being said, the world is practically unrecognizable. I don't know how that cunt Jaheira survived for that long.
>there's a BG2 mod to make party members phase through each other nowfucking finally
>>749499975Wasteland 2 and 3. Torment: tides of numenera as well, although it doesn't live up to planescape: torment
Any CRPGs with hairy or fat chicks to romance?
>>749501083>Please think about the actual direction of D&D 4E before you say that.I did.It was not necessary for the setting. You already had the base implied setting, and the upcoming Eberron.They tried to force every setting into that same hole, which proved to be a bad decision as it was largely rejected by the fandom (specifically for FR)
>>749499975the expeditions games, all, conquistador, viking and rome.
>>749497476Yeah, its in the planet you land at the end of colony ship.
>>749499975Cyber Knights: FlashpointWasteland 2 and 3Age of DecadenceEncasedRoadwardenInquisitorThe Iron OathOur Adventurer Guildall the Expeditions games count I guessOnce you're done with these you can upgrade to more high impact autism games like Tales of Maj'Eyal, Avadon, Cataclysm:DDA and other roguelikes.
>>749499174did you read the entire text nigga? she was just teasing him. She stole his ring
>>749492425If you're playing the original campaign, play Monk or Barbarian unless you want to kill yourself from boredom while backtracking.Don't play the original campaign though.
>>749487063I wanted to try some of these but they look depressingly bad. Like, I love pixel art, I love pre-rendered like BG. But this art is a mess. It reminds me of those shitty Flash games from the 2000s
>>749502142I'm playing SoU
>>749489005I finished both NWN+Expanions and NWN2+MotB. I would rate them NWN2=MotB=HotU>SoU>NWNOC. I personally think that if you play as a good character the NWN2 OC is really underrated. I find that OC wans't near as bad as people on the internet say and that MotB wasn't as good as people say either (too much enemy HP bloat imo)
>>749492425Wizard 100%On top of being able to cast all the spells in the game by scribing scrolls, you can rest whenever you want, meaning you can resupply your spell slots literally instantaneously. That alone makes you more adaptable and retardedly powerful. This is also 3rd edition; Wizards have practically all the capabilities that Sorcerers have, where you can tap into metamagic through the feats, something that was relegated/given to Sorcerers. Not to mention that you already have a Sorcerer companion that you can bring with you.You should only go Sorcerer if you have a particular multiclassing build in mind, something that includes Dragon Disciple.
>>749489346>>749501710Colony Ship flopped because people are bored of shitty dark Sci-fi aesthetics where everything is either futuristic metal corridors or dead moon-like planets
>>749501519I really don't see how it wasn't necessary. Dark Sun needed less cajoling to fit 4E than FR does, and people still bitched about DS. I think you don't understand how inimical FR's crap is to the kind of play 4E expected.
>>749500751>wide brimmed pointy hat>blue color themewizard, not sorcerer. sorcerers are red, yellow or orange themed and don't wear hats.
>>749502384Smart man.
>>749502142>Don't play the original campaign though.typical reddit pleb take
>>749502438>NWN2 OC enjoyerIncredibly based. The trial was absolute kino and it had one of the best player strongholds in vidya. The party members were great too, with like two or three exceptions who were only okay, out of like ten of them.>enemy stat bloatfucking vampire monks, I still remember those pieces of shit
>>749486460Yeah, it's one of the most disgusting things that ended up becoming a staple in RPGs, because most people who play RPGs these days are desperate, autistic losers. Back in the day, it either wasn't a thing, or was just a footnote or dumb side quest.
>>749502438>I personally think that if you play as a good character the NWN2 OC is really underrated.Is it disappointing if you aren't playing as a good character, then?
>>749498946Retarded faggot.
>>749502812>Back in the dayWhat is back in the day, because the game that popularized romances in CRPGs to this day still has the most content and focus on them
>>749486460>>749502812you can just like not pursue any romance you know?
>>749485251>Too Much Text: The Genre
>>7495026734e would've worked perfectly fine with the kind of high-powered nonsense that 4e gets into. It's a setting that already had very high-level encounters and NPCs that work well with the style of play.The only thing they didn't like was they wanted to setting to be a bit more "ruined" for a non-mechanic non-gameplay philosophy they were going for.But every setting following the exact same philosophy makes for a boring set of settings.
>>749502860I only did one playthrough so idk. But lot of people suck off MotB because supposedly has a fine evil route so I assumed they don't like how it is done in the OC NWN2
>>749502754>I love massive sprawling dungeons with nothing in them but mountains of trash enemies and almost no worthwhile lootNWN2 OC is pretty decent though
>>749502986It didn't use to be like this until Swayer and Owlcat came back. The only game with too much text was Planescape before that. Once they got into the obsession of describe every small inconsequential physical action of the characters while they speak is that the text got way too bloated
>>749502812It became a thing because of FF7. Companions, companion dialogue/stories, and relationships became a bigger focus after an Interplay producer told James Ohlen about the game (saying FF7's characters were better than ours--being BG1) and Ohlen took it as a personal challenge for his team.
>>749503080It's worth for the story and its characters. Which btw I think are better than both the xpansions bar Deekin I guess
>>749485251Is Kotor a crpg?
>>749502754The OG NWN campaign would be fine if SoU+HOTD didn't mog it so hard. There's really no point in playing it when SoU starts you at level 1 and the story continues on to HOTD.
>>749503215Of courshe.
>>749500586Look, just because they can read and write and weave tapestries doesn't mean they're civilised.
>>749502987>The only thing they didn't like was they wanted to setting to be a bit more "ruined" for a non-mechanic non-gameplay philosophy they were going for.No, they correctly identified the pile of lore and NPCs as anathema to adventurer heroes carving their own path, because everything was already fucking there. This was the selling point of 4E.
>>749502695It's a larping shaman. She can't read.
>>749491367Stillwater was nice. I had a lot of sex.
>>749502438NWN OC is great with literally the worst ending to any game ever at the end. Luckily MotB softens that blow quite a bit.
>>749503360build me an army worthy of meowdor
>>749502860I haven't played NWN2 since 2007 when I was a teenager, around the time the game was released, but from what I remember, there is a point where you have to go to court to answer for some crimes that were laid upon you by the group of the le ebil cult organization who are under disguise tricking the populace. I remember playing nothing but a good character, and everyone in the courtroom basically sucking off my dick, recalling all my good deeds, being able to tell the judge what I was doing during such and such event, and one of my companions basically coming to fight in my stead as I won the case and challenged me to a duel to the death.I remember at that moment thinking what my game would be like if I ran around being an evil faggot doing evil things. This game was practically made for being a good guy.
>>749496784playing this as a kid, having no idea what the fuck I was doing and just getting lost in the world is one of the greatest gaming memories of my life. nothing compares to the feeling of discovery and adventure I had experienced in ultima VII
>>749503293It's not the selling point of Forgotten Realms though.Which is why they had other settings.But you are conceding that it had nothing to do with gameplay or mechanics, so not actually necessary for 4e. It was purely a philosphy they were aiming for.
>>749503601You don't publish something that runs counter to what you are trying to do with your game. This is textbook what choked 2E out and resulted in TSR dying.
>>749488628>How high level is WotR's plot and setting? As in, is the campaign primarily dealing with mundane and mortal world, or more like that one NWN expansion where you literally go to hell?It's even higher level than HotU. It goes completely bonkers with level 40 mythic shit, god powers and beyond, dimension hopping, crazy spells and magic items. And it starts from the absolute get go on level 1 and just keeps escalating. There's zero mundane adventurer content whatsoever.
>>749503676You also don't release something without understanding why people liked the thing in the first place.Which is why they pretty much reverted almost every change 4e did to the Forgotten Realms.There are always exceptions to the rule, and knowing when you should break a rule is as important.They incorrectly assumed they could break the "rule" for Forgotten Realms to make it conform to the "rule" of 4e, when they should've done the opposite for that setting.I'm saying this as someone who actually prefers Eberron to Forgotten Realms, and is annoyed that there's not an actual Eberron CRPG and everything is FR.In any case what you're saying doesn't ultimately matter, because what they did didn't work and it was reverted.
>>749503925>You also don't release something without understanding why people liked the thing in the first place.You do when you are forced to release it or lose the license.
>>749503223SoU is really mediocre and only saved by hordes being good.
>>749504037Which again the "not understanding" was entirely their own fault and due to their own hubris. The lore changes in 4e were completely unnecessary and proved to be the wrong move.
>>7495000043 > 1 > 4 > 2
>>749500004They look very "Shantae"Should WayForward make a game with goblins?
How bad are the Beamdog NWN remasters?
>>749505772They only remastered NWN1, 2 was done by Aspyr.It’s pretty good and the default version for any new user modules, PWs and such.
>>749505772They're actually very good (now) on a technical level. The only issue is in the BG games, there are new "Beamdog" created NPCs that clash heavily with the rest of the game, and an expansion that takes place in between BG1 and 2 added to 1 that also feels out-of-place.But you can take your post-game save from BG1 and completely skip the expansion if you want.NWN1 remaster is actually very good and revived the multiplayer scene, and they've done a lot of stuff to open up more of the game for people who make their own stuff for the game
>>749505772NWN1 is Beamdog and very good.NWN2 is Aspyr and VERY bad.
>>749499975Arcanum should be lower. Otherwise powerful ranking
>>749506007It was pretty hard carried by the levelup and magic systems. The story was decent enough. (miles better writing than FO2) The quest design was still just as bad as the Fallout games though. And it didn't even have the loot goblin appeal of scrounging for a bunch of expensive weapons to sell for buckets of bottlecaps.You might be right though. I haven't finished NWN or IWD yet, but I might have only ranked them lower because I'm still in the middle, and just sort of trudging through at the moment, waiting for my characters to get more developed, and for things to get more interesting. (I just got to Ch4 in IWD, and I'm half way through Chapter 2 in The Wailing Death)Still, I'm expecting for NWN to climb in ranking as I do some of the DLC modules, or try other classes.
>>749505772NWN1EE is as close to flawless as you can get.
>>749506007Arcanum was such a batshit game>Enable realtime mode and you can cast Harm as quickly as you click on an enemy
>>749506375>The quest design was still just as bad as the Fallout games thoughThen why is Fallout 1 so high on the list? Its quest design and mechanics are worse than Fallout 2's, and the writing in Fallout 1 wasn't that special anyway.
>>749506837>the writing in Fallout 1 wasn't that special anyway.Infinitely better than 2's
>>749506837FO1's mechanics are actually better than 2's. 2 has retard HP bloat and curbstomped its accuracy formulas for no fucking reason.
>>749507026Yeah but the gameplay is better in 2 so it evens out.
Any shooter rinks like f3 and nv? Yknow, not like borderlands but with quest and actual itemization. >>749507103Blame Chris. Which is funny because when he played f2 he rarely if ever did combat or dies every 5 seconds.
Games for this feel?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_41tpTny5w
>>749506837It's mostly on vibes, I'll admit. The story was really good, and didn't overstay it's welcome. The combat was overly simple but inoffensive for what it needed to be.I liked the environments and designs of the different monsters and robots, and it was fun to vacuum up as much loot as possible with my companions, then sell it all back to whoever could trade for it. I ended up with way too many energy cells, and just ended up sniping mutants from across the map, turning them into puddles.I actually played it twice to try and "do it right" which I can't say about any other game on the list because of how short it was. It's not all that good though, there's a definite gap between FO1 and PS:T. The level up system is good, but weapon availability and skill usefulness kind of kills it. The quest design makes objectives cryptic and hard to follow (though, not as bad as FO2). And it'll often give your character too few options to say, or not enough ways to alter your choice of resolution if you're trying to play a lying bastard.
>>749507245>Any shooter rinks like f3 and nv?What?
>>749507452First pwesom shotiter rpg's link fallout 3 u d new veguas
>>749495517Very incorrect. Check the bio, look up a timeline. Jaheira was very young in BG, most likely her early 20's, but possibly even a teen.
>>749507502Uh huh
>>749507502stay off the jet, anon
>>749487063>Jeff VogelDoesnt he remake games he already remade?>>749507617SHOOTER RPGS BUT NOT LOOTER SHIT LIKE BORDERLANDS!
>>749507502Specifically shooters, or can they be fantasy with bows and arrows?
>>749507417Fallout 1's short length and lack of content is also its biggest weakness. There's very little replay value because of it, at least this was better in FO2.
>>749507559Jaheira was a child during the fall of King Alemander V in 1347 DR. So let's be conservative and say she was 10 at the time. BG1 takes place in 1369, so she'd be 32. BG3 takes place a 135 years later, so she'd be 167, which is the absolute tail-end of a half-elves lifespan (120-180).
>>749507721I dont see why not.
>>749507703Cyberpunk 2077 or something idk
>>749507724Replay value is an extremely overstated benefit imo, especially wirh longer games.
>>749507724I think that works to it's advantage, actually.Trying out a new experimental build, or trying to see what would happen if you pick a different path in a quest is a few hours of investment rather than days.Then again, it was a game made for 90s kids who just spent a month of lunch money on one game, so in that case, they'd probably blow through everything in it over a good couple weekends, and probably relish the week long epic quest that's only slightly different to the last one. Unlike the adults playing them now in between work days, and weekend obligations.
>>749507417>>749507724>>749507864>>749507908I fucking hate redditor niggers talking about "replay value". Bro, barely like 15% of people even finish the game a first time and you think the devs should concentrate in the very small % that wants to play your game a second time just to see like 2hs of stuff they missed the first playthrough? Make a lot of content. But also make most of it be able to be seen in a single playthrough
>>749507837She was born to loyalists to the Alamander Regime. The way it's phrased heavily implies that this was after the coup, meaning her parents held out for some time before being driven out.The coup ocurrs in 1347, the iron crisis in 1368.If she is speaking accurately, she is 21 at most im Baldur's Gate.>they have long been my friendsCan be accounted for due to their Harper status and even just a relatively short time adventuring building bonds of brotherhood.
>>749508080It's usually a good sign when after you're finished with a game, you think "I wanna do it again"That's really where I think the conversation around replay value falls apart. It's usually about making the players feel like they need to play through it again, rather than making a good enough game for the players to want to.RPGs especially struggle with this for the same reason Telltale games do. The devs don't want to write eight games when the player will likely only see one, so they have choices either remain inconsequential in the overall scheme. Either by keeping them self contained, or looping the choices back in sync. You choose to save either Person A or Person B, but the one you saved still dies anyway, just a chapter later.
I always play RPGs first time as a Wizard or closest equivalent (like a laser weapon using hacker for a sci-fi setting)Are there any CRPGs where playing a magic user is either unviable, or just not fun at all?I play like this because you can usually tell how well thought out the class design is by playing the non-standard way to play. Most games expect you to play a warrior. There's a sort of fear of magic grandfathered in from tabletop games, where they should be powerful, but not too powerful, so this usually manifests as being able to absolutely nuke three enemies before needing to take a nap, or just being stuck as a buff-bot.
>>749509409The old Pools of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor game was a not shit 3e D&D game that didn't have goddamn Wizards as a possible class. In the damn turn-based party-based CRPG. Based on DnD. Owned by a company called WIZARDS of the Coast.I'm shocked it's getting a re-release soon.
>>749509732>not shit*no shit. Pressed an extra key. It was a no shit 3e D&D game.It was most definitely shit.
why am I so shit at crpgs? I could barely kill J'nah by pulling her into the corridor I can't imagine fighting her and all the other enemies legitimately
>>749509780I tried out the NES port for a few minutes, and it let me make a "Magic User", but not a mage or wizard. was that different in the PC version?
>>749501992virgins can't see anything except NTR everywhere
>>749509928That was a completely separate game.There's a "Pool of Radiance" game from the 80's that was part of the old Gold Box series of CRPGs. That was based on 1e (and got a version for NES).There was a new game in the early days of 3e called Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor. It also had the funny ability to accidentally brick your PC in the original release, but I dont' recall the specifics of what could do it.
>>749485476duty calls, I see
>>749507502>[Intelligence 1] First pwesom shotiter rpg's link fallout 3 u d new veguas
>been playing Arcanum for a while now>just reached Caladon and solved the half-orc conspiracy>feeling kind of burned out; don't really want to keep playingDoes the game's story pick up again? My party is insanely OP and it feels like I'm just letting myself get dragged around at this point.
>>749510095If i don't misremember, uninstalling it could fuck up your registry and the only fix was reinstalling windows. Or it tried uninstalling your entire C: drive
>>749511947Manaan is so fucking comfy. It's my favourite location along with Dxun
>>749512621I could smell the sea breeze through the screen.
>>749485687>Nathyrra That's her. That's her officer.She addicted me to blueberry pussy 23 years ago
>>749485251I had a D&D character based off of a few characters from Arcanum, mostly that one poser Dwarf, with bits of the half ogre hero and the world's smartest orc: Garoog the half orc barbarian. Short for Garfield Rogers, raised on the right side of the tracks by a couple that were consensual, just kind of weird. One day the built up rage came out, he reduced a petty mugger to a smear on the cobblestones and ran off the join the metaphorical circus. Garoog was a massive tryhard and intentionally spoke in third person, unless he was raging, in which case he was too worked up, unfortunately I don't think anyone noticed.
>>749503147Ackshully BG2 has a higher wordcount than planescape
>>749511648It does, at the very end of the game
>>749499048>this isn't naturalthe natural spirits that the thayan rape all day would gladly let that one pass if it meant that edwin would get his cunt plowed by a bear and forced to bear funny bear people that pray for rashemar spirits.
Allow me to be a shithead elitist for a second here to tell you about how much I fucking hate how popular RPGs typically have very mediocre writing.Baldur's Gate 3 for instance? The whole mindflayer plotline which is the driving force of the game has no real complexity. It's not saying anything, there's no metaphor or allegory or theming. It's just 'there's a big brain you have to kill or everyone dies'. And the dialogue for a lot of the characters is written as though this is the first conversation they've ever had with another person in their lives; jarringly awkward. And yet this is the most popular modern RPG. And it's not even an egregious example of how second-rate writing is so readily accepted by the average player.
>>749514029If you look at the history of D&D-based video games, BG3 is unfortunately better than the vast majority of them dialogue-plot-character-wise. BG2 has better characters, but the actual plot and writing is mediocre. Lot is carried by the voice of Irenicus being god-tier.
>>749485251eliminate all gnomes
>>749514029>elitist >cares about writing r u even trying m8?
I've yet to find a game as comfy as Neverwinter Nights 1I have no idea what the fuck it is but it just plays so well
I'm working on one. What pitfalls should I beware? What would you recommend everyone play?(I already know a bunch but I always want to learn.)
>>749491858she got walled but it's aight
>>749506537>>Enable realtime mode and you can cast Harm as quickly as you click on an enemyI love those old poorly coded games where you could speedhack by rapidly clicking an enemy. Another one is Onimod Land, and RTS made by puccians, not a CRPG.
>>749514820>What would you recommend everyone play?If you are working on specifically an RPG focusing on mechs you should play games similar in theming in particular. Even if your game has nothing to do with the gameplay of Armored Core or Brigador or whatever that is the point of reference the player will be seeing your game from.
>>749485251Arkanum was pure euro jank but I loved it. Truly unique.
>>749513287Really? Maybe most of its wording is on companions or something? I really didn't find BG2 to be a word salad like Planescape. And then Pillars of Eternity comes and sometimes I was there wasting 2 straight hours just exhausting the companions dialogues (the biggest problem desu is that they put too much boring loredump into companions dialogues). And it made BG2 look like I was playing Dark Souls in comparison
>>749515293>Maybe most of its wording is on companions or something?or because BG2 is a much longer game
>>749515293Yeah, man.Maybe it's just the way how Planescape dumps a lot on you all at once that makes it seem wordy
Trying to remember ra CRPG I once played briefly.All I can remember is you started escorting someone, I think a merchant, on a wagon. There was a combat in an inn and one ofthe classes was Paladin. Visuals were 3D and I'm pretty sure it was vibrant rather than dark or murky. The game is at least a decade old at this point.Anyone know what it might have been?
>>749515709Sounds a bit like PF Kingmaker.
>>749515857Definitely not king maker, I played that one recently.
>>749515916maybe Drakensang then?
>>749515293nta but a lot of BG2 is the fact it's text in general - not just dialoguePlanescape is deep with npc conversations you must interact with for the most part but BG2 has a whole spell kit, abilities, etcthey have a lot more words than P:TPlus ther's cleric, paladin etc so you've got a lot of shit there alone in just the characters
>>749515709Was it Pillars of Eternity 1?
>>749516032I don't think so, but maybe. I remember it being a top down camera, but I might be wrong.
>>749516187Definitely not PoE. I didn't play that until recently as well.
>>749485251Everyone is talking about how Geneforge 3 is arriving soon. How exciting.
>>749485251reformed daemonette when?
>>749516414what's your take on Geneforge 1 and 2
>>749516461The Shapers did nothing wrong
>>749516032Is it drakensang good? I am getting out of options of new crpg to plays really at this point. Unless I go way back to the early 90s or something
it's weird how arcanum is getting more and more attention as of lateabout a decade ago, the subreddit barely has any posts, mostly how do i x.now some guys are making mods, fan art, etci have a feeling we're about to see some feminist get offended by the gnome rape thing sometime soon
>>749519737It has been like this since some fag youtubers made videos about the game years ago
I'm REALLY trying to like Rogue Trader, bros, but the amount of dialogue is seriously too much and I'm just skipping through all the conversations. It's fucking insane. I grew up playing CRPGs too.
>>749515709Dungeon Siege?
>>749509847In NWN you either play as a spellcaster and load up on buffs before triggering important boss encounters, or you play as a DEX tank. Having a tanky henchman helps too. Spellcasters kind of suck at low levels though. J'nah is an early boss so your character won't have many levels, gear, or other options to deal with her, so it's just kind of a tough fight. The low level Act 1 boss fights tend to be the hardest in RPGs for that reason.
>>749485251>Never going to get another Fallout CRPG>Never going to get a Mass Effect CRPG
>>749521260In NWN1, you should be using both your familiar and a Summon Monster spell. Summon Monster in NWN1 is homebrewed to last 24 in-game hours and is stronger than a typical creature compared to tabletop. In terms of familiars, the pixie familiar in particular is useful to handle rogue stuff.
>>749521134Just install that one mod that sets up the lightweight TTS AI model on your PC that reads everything to you.
>>749521134Rogue Trader gets worse the farther you get, if you reach a point where you feel it's dragging then you should quit. It's not going to get better.
>>749521134>Play a game about dialogue>"There's too much dialogue!"Hmm.
I never could get into games like BG1 and Icewind Dale. Too messy and I never know what I'm supposed to be doing. I fared better with the more solo oriented ones like NWN and Fallout 1. How do I git gud at large party CRPGs?
>>749524354To be fair the Infinity Engine games are of questionable quality mechanics wise. I only got into it specifically with BG2 because the story grabbed me so quickly, then I went back and played the others to get a fuller picture.But it was never the gameplay itself I was in it for.Lot of other RPGs control better.
>>749503223It's still be a shitty horde killer full of low cr trash mobs, low exp yield from quests (almost entirely fetch quests), few magic items, and traps on every random container. If it wasn't for SoU + HotD + the toolkit in general, NWN would be bashed every time it was brought up.
>>749524354There's no secret to them. It's the same as single-character RPGs except you have six full characters at the same time.
>>749523934holy fuck, are you serious? I'm at the beginning of Chapter 1... I haven't even done the first mission... I've just finished talking to the companions and the officers and felt my mind rot away with the amount of dialogue in those conversations. It gets WORSE than this?>>749524218lmao it's like a movie-game but with text. It is literally insane. Planescape Torment had less text than this and was much more interesting.
>>749526061Personally I do not put my balls in a vice and twist it hard while cutting up my cock with scissors. That isn't something that I would enjoy so I do not do it. You might consider the same strategy.
>>749486389Viconia, when I was an immature teen. Also enjoyed the Aeire romance. Both are young male fantasies.I romanced Laezel in BG3 and that was pretty decent.
>>749488868I did. The character builds are mostly story flavour. I went with a charisma build and wasn't feeling worse for it. But I do appreciate how much of a slut the MC can be. It's like Fallout 2, but cranked up to 11.
>>749514268Not really. The plot of BG3 is actually nonsensical when you stop to think about it. And Larian does the usual Larian thing where they mock how stupid their plot is. Look, Sven, just because you lampshade that your story is stupid, it doesn't stop it from being stupid. You wrote it this way.
>>749486389Tiefling twins in Kingmaker. There wasn't enough content and the ending is pretty disappointing because it's literally just a couple of sentences, but twins, Basil. Makes you feel like a big man to save and romance both of them.The ending of Arueshalae's romance was also pretty sweet, where you meet Desna. But then the same problem happens with Owlcat having no idea how to actually finish on a satisfying note and her ending slide is seemingly written in spite of the player.
I wish there was a Warhammer fantasy CRPG. I'm tired of 40kslop. Why can't I just play as a Witch Hunter, man? It would be so fucking cool.
>>749521327We might eventually get a Fallout CRPG from inXile. Or at least I hope
>>749521134all the dlc they added frontloads the game with wordswordswordswords it's awful
>>749486389viconialae'zelwenduagcamelliaaribeth (evil slut route)
>>749498946Agreed it's the best.There are a lot of interesting crpgs but you always have to brainwash yourself to overcome janky aspects.
>>749499048Edfoid would be such a depraved femcel.
>>749530497>Man with worst taste in the world finally discovered
Which do I go with here? I played the OG campaign back in the day but never play SoU, I wanna play that and whatever else is good if I don't get bored.
>>749485251how true/false is this curated list
>>749485251Dead genre
>>749530805true if you're a normie who likes readingfalse if you're an autistpersonally I don't care for larian games or dragon age but they are not bad
>>749524354I love their gameplay but it can be confusing and janky. I will give you a quick QRD of how to play in a simple and effective way if you want.
>>749530980what are you top picks
>>749530805>wrath of the troon at number #2, or on the list at all for that matterImmediately discarded the entire list.
>>749531074BG1 and BG2. But it's a very personal thing. These games are quite complex and different things appeal to or piss off different players.
>>749530805Just some random cunt's personal opinion/10.
Icewind Dale was simple. You build a party, and you crawl dungeons. It's really straightforward with how the campaign gives you your next destination.BG1 was a bit open world-y. You could wander off and get your ass killed really easy the true Level 2 D&D party experience.
>>749486389A Dance with Rogues
>>749531140sorry it's peak even if owlcat are troons
I like it when games finally explain wtf is going on. I had no idea about the overall plot until the return to Dantooine.And it was really satisfying. I had goosebumps the whole scene.
>>749530805What the fuck lmao
>>749531584KOTOR2 is one of the best examples of games that justify having full voice acting. It wouldn't be nearly as memorable if it was just text or scattered voice lines.
>>749531584And it has one of the best pieces of music in the entire series, beautiful scenehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eyCSMFbfoY
>>749531672And they absolutely nailed it when picking the key voice actors. Imo Kreia, Atris, the Jedi masters and the majority of the companions are absolutely fantastic with their delivery.
>>749503286this photo is funny because realistically they would've just had their tits out
>>749531752I can still hear it.
>>749531584It may just be an issue with TSLRCM, but in a recent playthrough I found the dialogue in KOTOR 2 was frequently disjointed and filled with weird repetitions. The lauded scenes and speeches tend to trip over themselves and sometimes the sense is muddled or lost. I've gone through the game four times over the years and I still don't really understand all the mumbo jumbo about wounds and echoes in the Force. I neither comprehend it or find it interesting.
I've been playing through Baldecaran's NWN modules, Cave of Songs was a bit simple but pretty cool and Honor Among Thieves was great other than the occasional scripting bug. The intro to the Prophet trilogy was kind of shockingly well-made for the engine, I'm looking forward to digging into it better.Although what were the devs thinking with implementing Hide in Plain Sight, it's the first time I've played a dedicated Rogue and just a single level in Shadowdancer gets you a skill that just lets you turn invisible at will which breaks basically every combat encounter in the game.
>>749530681more cunty women for me
I love my chungus wife
I have never into Pathfinder games, start with Kingmaker or WotR?
>>749532325KM for adventure, WotR for power fantasy
>>749530805I feel like I'm on the minority for liking Kingmaker over WotR.
>>749532103TSLRCM does a lot of that>bros there are unused voice files are in the game, we HAVE to use them!
>>749532167>his wife shaves
>>749532373It's a common sentiment.KM is more grounded and feels more like an actual dnd campaign, the enemies are more memorable, it feels more imaginative.
>>749532373on a first playthrough, I liked wotr more. on subsequent playthroughs I definitely prefer kingmaker. wotr is great but the crusade mode shit is bloated and tiring
>>749531394>con increases or decreases your breast sizepretty fun mod tbqfhdesu
>>749491858You did to yourself by playing gay porn dating sims
>>749531297? It's the definitive CRPG ranking.
>>749533625ok random cunt
>Try Pathfinder Kingmaker>Bounce of it immediately as I see how autistic the character building is>Try DOS2>Bounce off it as I can't stop myself from wikiing shit so I don't miss good content>Try Wasteland 2>Bounce off it (Long time ago, don't remember why)>Try Planescape Torment>Bounce off it again>Buy Baldur's Gate 1 on the most recent Steam Sale>Already struggling with wanting to continue and I've only just filled my partyI don't fucking get why I can't connect with these games.I love lore autism and fantasy (for the most part) and characters. There's just something about this genre that is so dry that it makes it impossible for me to get excited to relaunch the game. I wonder if it's how much time you spend micromanaging the game systems like levels and companions for the sake of combat that simply isn't ever very good or fun to play.I keep trying them because if I can just get it to click once I have so many games that are considered god-tier classics at my fingertips
>>749533816>>Try Wasteland 2>>Bounce off it (Long time ago, don't remember why)it's because it sucks
>>749500241>>749499987If you're looking for the remaster of the original Imoen mod, the location has shiftedhttps://www.israelbarbuzano.net/imoen/The old blindmonkey site no longer worksThere is a totally new mod called "A moment with Imoen" that came out a week or two ago, but I don't know anything about that and it doesn't have any reviews yet
I love my autistic xenowife
>>749531892Kreia was a proper actress of some repute
>>749533029Huh, I never realized unless it was added in the EE version, that's pretty funny. Horny women can really make some high effort smut.
>>749533861It's alright. Overall though it was kinda boring and I got really burnt out towards the end
>>749533816Completionism is not really a good mindset when tackling RPG's anyway, with a "good" RPG you should miss content by design. I would not worry about this with DOS2, I dont remember it having narrative choices at all.
>>749533816Try Rogue TraderIt's easier to get into than Pathfinder, and pretty fun
>>749492137I expect dogshit but I get the audience they're going for.
>>749533816Maybe anon just has an attention disorder.
>>749534279I want to, but I was waiting to play it until it completely ceased development since I don't want to play incomplete story games and every time I check back in on it those motherfuckers have announced eight new story DLCs.
>>749530805Dragon Age is babbies first RPG. i'd like it more if only it weren't so streamlined in such a way that your choice matters less than in BG2, and you're already funneled a lot in BG2Pillars 1 is honestly not memorable apart from Durance and the whole god bomb. DOS2 could've been GOAT, but how they ended the story, and the final stretch was horrible that it kind of soured my experience of the game. No CRPG that makes you spell POWER deserves to be in a top 5. Could've been among the top 3 if they didn't use the last stretch of the game as a puzzle gauntlet, and if they didn't keep reediting the writing.>the isle of godhood that nobody knows is filled with opposing factions fighting each other
>>749534279>>749534341If you bounced off Kingmaker you will also bounce off Rogue Trader. The character building is the same kind of autism. These games are simply not for you.Disco Elysium is perhaps more feasible. Your 'build' doesn't matter and you can't really miss anything. And there is also a lot of worldbuilding. But it also (soft of) has no combat, the gameplay is just the dialogue. And also dressing Harry up like a clown.
How do I get into Pathfinder? What tips should I know at the start of the game or what should I be doing?
check out my cock
>>749533816You should try Fallout 1. The systems are relatively simple and easy to understand, and you can beat it in like 10 - 15 hours.
>>749534504Kingmaker? Tabletop?
>>749534495I did like Disco Elysium a lot (and I played through Zero Parades, it's pretty decent) but I didn't list those because they arguably closer to visual novels than they are to CRPGs.
>>749534516Bird-of-paradise head-ass.
> I'll be a caster, no wait I'll be a sneaky rogue, or wait, maybe a splellblade or...> Restartitis until I make human fighter with a 2 handed weapon.It's the only thing that feels fun to me.
>>749530805Pretty bad list tebeheAnd i've played them all.DAO - 6\10. Baby's first CRPG. Very simplistic, very shallow, has some decent elements.Arcanum - 9.2\10. One of the best CRPG ever createdBG2 - 10\10. Probabbly THE best CRPG ever createdUnderrail 9.5\10 - modern classic and the gold standard for modern view of CRPGsBG3 - 3.9\10 - extremely pozzed game with terribler writing, charaters and gameplay. Probably not even a CRPGDE - not a CRPG\10. It's fucking VN and should be judjed as VN. I'm not a VN fan so fuck this shitDOS2 - 4.5\10 - terrible larian writing with godawful gameplay, but at least not as woke as BG3WOTR - 9\10 - great CRPG with a few glaring flaws that are not dealbreakersPlanescape - 8.9\10 - one of the best writings period, but gameplay is rather shallow
your a queer fellow
>>749534634My hotel's as clean as an elven arse.
>>749534341Last one coming in Dec apparently
>>749534631Typical retard opinions of a typical retard slav.
>>749534495Rogue Trader is much more forgiving than Pathfinder. If you fuck up your build in PF then you're fucked, but even a suboptimal build can do fine in RT, along with being able to respec at will
>>749534504Main thing is to either focus on a single class or look up a build guide if you don't know what you're doing, they're the kind of games that can fuck you over in the long term if you just wing it with multiclassing attempts. Obviously I'd recommend the former for a first playthrough since the latter mostly leads to overpowered characters instead, and that's only fun for some people. And IIRC Perception is a pretty important skill for finding stuff, all characters roll it separately so having more than one person with high Perception doesn't hurt.
>>749514268> BG3 is unfortunately better than the vast majority of them dialogue-plot-character-wise.Lol. Lmao evenIt is better only if you have zero testosterone in your blood
Imoen will you pipe down over thereI'm coming
>>749534694You are woke, aren't you?
>>749534759Images taken seconds before you lock yourself into the railroad section while severely underleveled.
>>749534694Russians aren't slavs dummy, they're Asian
>>749534768Shart has iphone-face
>>749488868>any insights into what kind of chatacter builds are fun?Non-physical skills are most importantCharisma most of allCon is the only really important physical skill
>>749534631FPBP
>>749534768Get back in the trench, Ivan. Those drones won't dodge themselves.
>>749489152>Can you disable the painterly effect? IYeah you can turn it right down
>>749534856Shart has man-face because xhe was ruined by Ben Swine after Early Access.
This is who writes games in larianNow you know why larian writing is SO FUCKING BAD
>>749501834>InquisitorGOTY
>>749534634Imoen is a lot more subdued ever since being raped
>>749533816i liked the first half of Wasteland 2 more than the second half. the california half felt like "oh shit we need to release the game quick put some shit together" because it just sucked basically
>>749534993i wanted to like that game, manthe writing was good but i had no patience for the combat
This anon asks a great question...
>>749534981Boring ragebaiting, 90% of games have shit writing no matter who writes them anyway so I don't honestly give a fuck who does it.
>>749534981
>>749535035give it a few more years and bg3 clones will appear
>>749535035it's just easier to copy souls combat and it's easier to 'balance'meanwhile, turnbased shit>encounters must be doable but challenging>spells and enemy interactivity>object interactivity>make sure players combining spells and other interactions don't break the gameit takes some special autism to make that
>>749495368>is when Aerie is giving birth in ToB.w-what?
>>749535183>he doesn't know
>>749535134All bg3 encounters are piss easy besides the Raphaerl which is just easyThe game lack like 80% of spell book and even presented spells are fucking cripples. Fly is not actually a fly, but a glorified jumpYou don't need any object interactivity. Rogue Trader has a little of it and it is a magnitudes better CRPG than BG3BG3 is broken as fuck
I want a CRPG set in Warcraft, Dark Souls, Witcher, Morrowind, Warhammer.
I don't understand how people get through Arcanum. Maybe the game is actually amazing but there's like a million bugs and yes I used the patch.
>>749491982Larian still managed to flanderize him with mercer.
>>749532103>>749532393The Droid Planet was so fucking terrible
>>749535183You fuck Aerie and she gets pregnant with your babyAfter she gives birth, she keeps the baby in her backpack like an item
>>749534909You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
I really enjoyed DOS1, even though the tactician mode was atrocious at times. But DOS2 is a real disappointment in terms of gameplay mechanics. The armor system ruins everything. Now, you can't have real strategies, have a diverse team of mage, tank, thief, etc. No, because you must focus on one armor or else you make the game harder than it already is, you make a team focus on physical or magical damage then you just spam attacks in order to remove armor ASAP. And yeah if you know the game you can accumulate a lot of damage output but it's boring as fuck. At least in BG3 there are several OP classes, a lot of possibilities. In DOS2, you just use archer and pick that flying armor from the definitive edition than that's it.
>>749530746Diamond + premium modules
How does WotR handle martials? Do they need to multi into nerd classes?
My three CRPG dreams>Phoenix Point-inspired CRPG>Dark Sun-inspired CRPG>Xianxia-inspired CRPG
>>749521134They certainly do talk too muchIt's actually unrealistic. Older games weren't like this
>>749535529Most builds turn you into crit machines with screen wide reach that explode the entire screen. Or you stack outflank. Or you stack pets with trip(or all three).
>>749535453Can't think of much of a reason for it except for running specific modules, the UI wasn't made for modern resolutions and it shows pretty quickly at anything past 1920x1080. Just having a scalable UI makes EE much nicer to play.
>>749535445Personally, I don't have strong opinions of the armor system. To me it's just different. It was Larian's way of addressing the issue in DOS1 which is CC spam on first turn and it worked, I guess, because in DOS2 you had to deplete their armor before effects kick in.I was able to keep a diverse party>rogue in charge of sneaking and attacking mages with low physical armor>2h in charge of CC via limiting enemy movementbut yeah, they aren't pure rogues or mages, they all have mixed skills
>>749535529> How does WotR handle martials?They are great mostly> Do they need to multi into nerd classes?No, but many of them would like to dip into monk\barb for AC
>>749535417is it responsible to carry a baby into combatis it even responsible to be going into combat and adventuring etc. when you have a baby at all
>>749535603The VERY OBVIOUS solution is to have a status at half HP (call it bloodied or wounded or something idk) and skills say "1-10 lightning damage STUNS when bloodied"
>>749495976>spellplague>What the fuck were they thinking?This should have been precipitated by destroying the Wall of the Faithless in NWN2: Mask of the BetrayerThey made such a big deal about how if you do that, the world will never be the same, well that's the perfect explanation for the Spellplague
>>749535558blame shit like >>749515438people love to circlejerk high wordcounts when the opposite is actually better. if you could tell a compelling story in fifty words that would always be better than a similar one in fifty thousand.
>>749535643They do actually address thisShe's become an adrenaline junkie, and can't get enough of adventuring with you, but she promises to be careful and keep the baby safe in her backpack
>>749535529The case against martials in wotr is mostly you simply can't stack enough ac to be viable in melee on hard or unfair without being significantly caster.On core or lower a pure martials more than viable.I recently had to clear the boat dlc about 10 times to fight nahyndrian darkness and I did those clears with a party that was ranger, arcanist/loremaster, cleric, and a paladin.And the ranger was just cleave nuking the whole screen.
>>749535558>>749535696fucking visual novels pride themselves in higher wordcount as a feature and i honestly detest that shit because >if you could tell a compelling story in fifty words that would always be better than a similar one in fifty thousand.is correctthey're only putting themselves in a corner with more words to be voice actedthe Fallout system of floating dialogue is a great way to make wordcount compact
>>749515438Any cRPG "game" that is longer then Fallout 1 or have more words then it, is shit.
>>749535643It's not a CRPG but in King's Bounty the Legend you can equip your babies in your wife's equipment slots, and different babies give you different stat boosts in combat.
>>749515293>>749515438Planescape really isn't wordy at allI'm playing it right now and I don't think it deserves this reputation at allIt's wordier than other games of its era, but compared to modern games it very succinct Yes, there are 2-3 very wordy NPCs, but only the ones who give flavor text about other planes. You have to so specifically to talk to them and ask them about their travels or whatever
>>749535874>a-sleepUnplayable garbage
>>749535842that's fucking funny
>>749535803I think it's because modern crpg writers grew up mainly reading fanfiction, which tends to be very verbose and self-indulgent due to lack of an editorIt's also very striking how much they use descriptive prose*Shart smirks, a playful expression crossing her lips, and she glances knowingly at Halsin*that type of thing. You never, ever got that in old games like BG2
>>749535982>is that an adjective? AAAAIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE
>>749535950That's how it was written in 1999
the spellplague's actually finethe Abeir nonsense on the other hand was complete and utter SHIT
>>749535529Tangentially related: it's kinda funny that you can increase your attack range so much that you can hit from one side of the screen all the way to the other in Wrath of the Righteous. Lunge feat with a reach weapon while mounted and with you and the mount having legendary proportions cast on you is silly-ass shit.There's also a bunch of broken shit you can do with skalds and everyone charging on turn 1 for a full round attack with massive bonuses which will instagib anything. But there's a bunch of broken shit in that game full stop.
>>749535982yeah in BG3 some characters talk way too much, especially Gayle and fucking Raphael. The first time you encounter Raphaël he talks for like a minute straight before finally introducing himselfBG3 is a perfect dopamine resetter if you've fried your brain on instagram/tiktok. Just don't skip any dialog, shit will torture you but heal your attention span
>>749535696>if you could tell a compelling story in fifty words that would always be better than a similar one in fifty thousand.Very true
>>749533895>"A moment with Imoen"It's fine. It's much shorter than any other romance and doesn't make use of lovetalk timers. Instead the lovetalks kick in in specific scripted moments. It's a weird approach, but it does feel a bit more modern. And it's much less edgy than that previous Imoen romance.
>>749535471*Hug Idira*
>>749536046>The first time you encounter Raphaël he talks for like a minute straight before finally introducing himselfAs a paladin I just told him to fuck off and then he fucked off. It made the last chapter pretty confusing.
>>749535842kek>>749535740ridiculous. getting involved with an "adventurer" (aka whore) is obviously a mistake. charname should be pursuing proper ladies
>>749514029>It's not saying anything, there's no metaphor or allegory or theming. It's just 'there's a big brain you have to kill or everyone dies'.I don't know, I'm super OK with this. Sure it's not the most interesting hook but it's this force to be opposed and the effects of the fight itself and the temptation of using the tadpoles are where the meat often is. Your companions have their own stories about them reclaiming their own fate (or not) which are more complex.Not saying it's perfect or even good, but I think the mindflayer plotline works as it is much better than if it was some critique of capitalism or whatever the fuck.Also why do people accept this level of writing? Because it's not like somewhere else there's something substantially better. Modern RPG writing is not very good and if you disagree with that part I'm very open to listening about what games I'm ignoring.
>>749491689>My sister Imoen is so cute...
Does BG3 have any actual gameplay?Because I never see screenshots of combat, just a closeup of Shart or Laezal or Astarion talking
>>749526061> It gets WORSE than this?I don't think that's true at allThe plot becomes a little loose, in the sense of what you think is the main antagonist isn't actually itBut it's not like they talk moreIf anything, people talk more in the first Act
I don't mind loredumps by NPCs in cRPGs but for some reason I'm really allergic to reading in-game books. Just find them boring
>>749536243interactive movie + icon management
>>749536243Yeah. You click magic missile and then click on the targets and the magic missiles go Whoosh and do some damage.
>>749536394You can't trick me. It's a Larian game, so clearly you actually click a barrel to blow it up
>>749536243Yeah, you pick nogs up and beat other nogs with them
>>749536361I can't think of a time you have to
>>749536243Yes and it's kind of fun chapter 1. Your environment matters, you can set up the ambush, you can push people down, you can shoot the chandelier to make it fall on a group. Later you just become BRAWKEN OP and rest whenever because infinite food and it loses a lot of its charm.
>>749529564His point is not that BG3 is good but that most games are worseAnd he's right
>>749536174Oh cool. I'm your brother in law. Immy said hi.
>>749485251btw I bought the divinity collection on steam. Tried divinity 1 but got filtered by the vampire hidden in the basement. Should I give this game another chance ?
>>749536464Wasn't trying to imply that you ever have to, just saying for some reason I just can't into vidya books
>>749536526The tutorial dungeon in Divine Divinity is fucked up. You probably wanna buy some scorpion trapsOr just reroll a mage, they're so OP that you can even roll straight out of town and rape the orcs one by one
>>749536361i guess some people like reading in-game lore and booksbut i'd prefer if they just do exposition>the book details how the big bad was sealed by using "the mcguffin"
Are Div:OS games worth a try if I didn't really like dialogue writing in BG3 and absolutely loathed the narrator?
>>749536526A lot of soul in the graphics and music and old-school world exploration, but at it's core it's a pretty basic ARPG. I had fun playing through it, but it's also not something I'd force myself to play if it doesn't click since the gameplay doesn't vary a ton.
>>749536718divinity os is a madcap comedy adventure with rpg attached
>>749536558I'm the same. it seemed cool to me when I was a babby and morrowind came out, but now I won't botheractually, the bells in that dungeon in pillars had a bunch of clues in books and papers for which order to ring them, but I just brute forced it
>>749535740new fetish unlocked thanks a lot retard
>>749536718In Divinity: Original Sin 2 the sex scenes are described in detail by the old man narrator voice. Make of that what you will.
>>749536648That's actually my problem I think. They never have any exposition, they're mostly in-universe stories. Basically like fanfiction
>>749535842KEK based
Speaking of D:OS1, how annoying is the double protagonist thing? I'll probably make them both the same personality and always agree with each other
>>749536994It feels at all times like you are supposed to be playing multiplayer with your homosexual life partner but unfortunately you still alone in your 30s so the game just feels awkward.
>>749536994it's okay.the only annoying part is when the game forces you to have arguments with each other and do the rock paper scissors thing but there's a mod for thisapparently, certain choices makes an impact on stats and what i know is that it affects the ending>lovers>friends>enemiesetc
>>749537074>>loversOh right I never thought about that, presumably it means you can't romance any other characters cause it would be weird for double protagonists to do that?
>>749536994It's not that annoying I guess, but it encourages a weird form of min-maxing because some of the personality traits are either completely useless or super useful depending on your skill build, and the discussions alter those.
>>749537194there's no other romance except the other protagonist, and it's also in the story whyif you make 2 bros, be careful not to make gay lovers if you're not into that
>>749500473I'd trade everything Obsidian has made since Deadfire for a Tyranny 2.
The MCs of DOS has to be the weirdest design choice in any cRPG, right? It's not the most malicious, or the most gamebreaking, but just plain weird. Any other examples?Wasn't it also the CEO of Larian who said>I have a SEXY GIRLFRIEND who LOVES PLAYING VIDYA so I was shocked when player numbers came in and our audience is only 0.1% women
>>749534516>>749487063sell me on Genforge right now
>>749537493good worldbuildingfun creations/summons that turn combat encounters into puzzles you solve>can't get past the main entrace because it's heavily guarded>summons die no matter what tactic>feel stuck>fuck it, i'm gonna suicide bomb the shit it of the main gate>it worksthere are also dialogue choices, multiple endings and a couple of factions to side withit's a fun little CRPG to play once you've exhausted all the others
>>749537683Finding the most OP build to solve every encounter is not a puzzle
>>749537717yes it is>>749537683So there's a lot of freeform party building based on the monsters you recruit?
>>749485251playing some divinity 2 on xbox
>>749537769most of the freeform is the type and certain abilitiesfirst you have to unlock the creatures you can create by exploring the maps and consuming green canistersyou're also limited by your essence (creation mana) and leadership stat to command themessence limits the number of creations while low leadership can lead to creations suddenly attacking you or fleeingprovided you are adequate in those, you customize your creations with these buttons>+ to hp, + to agi, etc>can have additional active or passive abilitiesso you can spam an army of 1 type or a powerful single creationbut it's generally advised to have more than 1 creation because more creations means more turns
>>749537974with the right dungeon synth album it looks like it would scratch an itch
>>749537362The combat in Tyranny is a slog that really needed more enemy types at the very least, but it's still one of the really few CRPGs that I legitimately wanted to replay right after beating it. I avoided it for a long time since people complained about it feeling unfinished, but I felt like it wrapped up pretty nicely all in all, other than Bleden Mark and/or Tunon just kind of anti-climactically flopping over at the end. Cool setting and fun party members too, and refreshing to have a protagonist that a lot of people fear and respect already from the start.
>>749538025i need to know 2 thingsis there romance in tyranny?is there party banter?
>>749538112>is there romance in tyranny?No, it's from back when they were vehemently against romance (before they realized it drives sales)>is there party banter?Yes
Tyranny more like Trannyry
>>749538112No romance but there is Sirin, overall the available party members skew too female if you include the Beastwoman, but she's a lot of fun so they come out fairly solid for party atmosphere.
>>749537074there is an option where you control both characters so you can have an argument against yourself.
how's Swordhaven?i liked atom rpg and trudograd
>>749500473>>749537362I've never seen anyone looking positively at Tyranny.
>>749538192The DLC did add some romance-adjacent stuff with Barik or Verse, but yeah, not like Baldur's Gate level stuff.
romance is gay and should fuck off
has Obsidian ever written a romance, Sith Lords maybe?
>>749491886Don't worry Vogel will remake his games at least 7 times more before he dies.
>>749538468Yeah you get to meditate with Visas Marr after stealing her from your arch enemy
>>749538468deadfire is full of it, it's horrible
>>749505960Beamdog is part of Aspyr
>>749538590it's incredible how no one even talks about deadfire's romances. i even forgot that the game had them. it's always the usual in discussions:aerie, viconia, jaheiramorrigan, lelianajae, cassia, yrliet, kibellahjust goes to show how bad it was
>>749537074>>749537069not a problem for me, since all party members are literally me at all times
>>749538750>based, based, based>nobody cares, nobody cares>literal whost. man of culture
>>749538347It's a tough sell since you have to get over the weak combat and the amount of time it takes before you really start understanding the setting and what all the various people and factions the plot revolves around are. I dropped it a few times myself, but when I did finally go through with playing it, it did end up being one of the more memorable CPRGs I've played. It really sells rise to power on a believable scale in a way most games don't, and it doesn't try to give the bronze age setting the kind of family-friendly glossing that a lot of RPGs do these days.
>>749538750it's not easy to discuss deadfire without a load of seething gaylords shitting everywhere
Cunoesse is cute
>>749536736any most have mods/fixes for modern OS?
>>749535628>>749535790>dip into monk\barb for ACI was planning to go for one of those anyway and am not above using cheats to make the power fantasy work.Do any of the classes have HP consuming moves/low HP buffs gimmick?
>>749538750The Laura Bailey southern priestess character confessed her love to me in a random scene. I think that's the entirety of the "romance" I encountered in the game.
>>749539489https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Divine_DivinityIIRC I used the performance patch and font enlargement patches? The former's from Windows 8 era but it worked fine for me on 10, I had to temporarily switch to Software mode at a few points since it didn't render the couple of video cutscenes there are properly and there was a mid-game crash, but it wasn't a major hurdle.If you don't mind losing some visual effects it probably just runs on software mode fine the whole way through.
>>749539684wouldnt dgvodoo2 the best solution?
>>749539506You're vaguely describing kineticist burn, but it's not dynamic; you gain resources for your powers but take unrecoverable damage that doesn't come back until you rest for the night.It's not really a martial either in the conventional sense. It's basically avatar the last airbender.
>>749538750> Yrliet> Romance??? That would be impossible
>>749539845Maybe, it's been a while since I played it and I only know what I tested and worked for me.
>>749536736I still remember the german pc gaming magazines called this Ultima VII diablo
>>749539949who is jordan?
>>749539985I don't remember if it's specified, it's a developers' room easter egg with a bunch of Larian devs locked up in a dungeon. I know this guy though.
>>749539949>>749540101god what a revolting perspective
I have a question, what game has presented puzzles you've enjoyed? I feel puzzles need to be a part of dungeoneering. I think my favorite have been riddles not because they're great but because they go to the point, but they're pointless in a second playthrough. Hints to make you flip the statues is ass, so is find the 7 parts of the diary so you can get an option to activate the cauldron.
>>749540272make a new crpg thread
>>749536243> Does BG3 have any actual gameplay?Yes, but it is so fucking garbage that it would be much better if it did not have any gameplay
>>749539506> I was planning to go for one of those anywayThey are both trash as pure classes though. Both are good only for dips and both are mogged by other classes like mutant fighter, bloodrager, paladin.
>>749541060what does this demonstrate exactly
>>749541129Instinctual warrior is pretty good and it's also a barb monk.
>>749536463>you pick nogs up and beat other nogs with them>>749536489>you can set up the ambush, you can push people down, you can shoot the chandelier to make it fall on a groupThis sounds neat
>>749541129>They are both trash as pure classes thoughSee spoiler.>>749541387That sounds exactly what I'd want.
