>>537159523
Energy vs no energy is pretty straightforward.

The typical no-energy basic turn system is:
You take an action > the next monster in the list takes an action > the next monster in the list takes an action > ... > until no more monsters are left- You then are free to consider your next action at your leisure, as your next "Turn" has arrived.
The game can simulate all the monsters actions near instantaneously, of course, which leads to the turn-based feel we have today- You take a step, all monsters take a step or attack or whatever they do almost "simultaneously"
The action the monster takes CAN be "take two steps" or "attack twice" or they might "wait" every other time they have a turn or "do nothing, clear stunned" but each entity's turn is resolved sequentially. The order maybe be based on which monster first entered view or some arbitrary other (Dexterity, alphabetic, whatever) but the list is depopulated and the turn is the player's agin.

Energy systems shake out in one of two ways, but work the same:
The game runs a loop- If no player/monster has (arbitrarily) 100 energy, it increments a Time counter and adds 1 energy to EVERY player/monster. If there IS a player/monster with 100 energy, that entity can take their turn. Any ties, entities with 100 energy at the same time, can be resolved as above- Appearance order, Dexterity, alphabetic, etc). Once they take their turn, they lose 100 energy and the loop continues, incrementing the Time counter.

The way that this differs from the no-energy system is either in that different entities gain Energy at different rates (2 per Time, 1 every other Time, based on a stat like Dexterity, etc) OR that different actions will subtract different amounts of Energy other than 100- Walking may take only 50, and so you can act in 50 more units. An attack may take 200, and you pay off the negative debt, letting other creatures get a "free" move in between your next action.

Various stats and effects can add complexity

>>537159523
>Can you cover this energy and no energy system in more detail. Aren't they both basically the same or am I missing something?
Original Rogue had "atomic turns" in the sense that a turn is a turn, there's no such thing as a half-turn, quarter-turn, etc.
In a sense, Rogue was a true turn-based game, like any other, it's just its turns happen to be one-step-long for everyone.

Later roguelikes, however, has expanded on that system with the introduction of "Speed" and "Energy".
All actions take some amount of energy, you can only take an action if you have enough of it, and speed is used to regenerate said energy.
The idea is to allow for actions that take different amount of in-game time, as well as entities that move at different speeds.

The technical implementation is basically the game processing the usual "full length" turns the players see and interact with via much shorter internal turns, or "ticks" for simplicity.
For instance, in ADOM the default energy cost of taking a step is 1000, and the default speed is 100 - for most players that's the closest thing they'll experience to a canonical "turn" in ADOM.
So, for the default speed of 100, it will take 10 ticks to generate enough energy for a single step.

The game can then manipulate both the speed and the energy cost.
For example, if a creature has 120 speed, they'll be able to reliably take a step every 9 turns with some overflow, averaging to 25 ticks required to make 3 steps, i.e. they'd move 20% quicker than usual.
Conversely, the cost doesn't have to be specifically 1000 - if you level your Ranger to 40, their movement cost will be reduced to 750, so even with 100 speed a level 40 ranger would move faster than a regular creature with 120 speed.
It allows for in-game actions happen at varied paces instead of rigid "turns", creating more gameplay variety and an improved sense of character "growth".

>>537192562
It's worth noting, that in most cases (at least in all cases I know of) internally, all actions are actually instant and simply have an allocated energy "cost".
Then there's an energy threshold that allows a creature to take their turn.
For example, in ADOM, you'd need 1000 energy to act. You can then do something that'd cost 2000 energy, go down to -1000 and essentially spend two "turns" recovering.
But that's more of a design decision for better UX. Technically speaking, nothing prevents the system from handling "startup" times for various actions.
It'd just feel like ass to swing your sword at an enemy and die before the hit lands, as there's no way of actually inferring that from the UI of most roguelikes, especially if we're speaking ASCII.

>>537071190
>>537073938
the smooth simultaneous movement makes it looks more like rtwp with pause at fixed points, something like Enter The Chronosphere or Toribash
in traditional energy system roguelikes the actions are instant, there is no delay between for example initiating sword swing and hitting the opponent, thus no real controllable counters or dodges etc.

>>537192562
>>537190169
You can also imagine it as the equivalent system of a priority queue.
Everyone decides what they want to do, then they're put into a queue sorted by when those actions will take place. One at a time the soonest action gets taken, that actor decides on their next action, and it gets put on the queue.
This is actually exactly the system that realtime games use, with the only distinction that the game only renders a single frame after each of the player's actions, and automatically pauses to let them make their choice. If you just had the system advance by one tick per frame automatically it converts all energy based roguelikes directly into realtime games.

>>537193315
It depends, actually.
Most melee attacks are indeed instant, but some games do handle travel time for projectiles.
ToME4 in particular expects you to manually dodge projectiles quite a bit.

>>537193364
I figure the (general) lack of startup cost/instantaneous execution is the biggest differentiator here, then.
Something like uh...
Ah.
Something like Y.our O.nly M.ove I.s Hustle (see also, Yomi) is probably the best way to highlight the difference.
The ability to "react" to incoming actions is typically reserved for telegraphed attacks/abilities that have to "charge" up.

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I just realized you can make custom sprites.

>>537198254
still somehow better than the base ToME sprites

>>537158381
warden would probably be better for this. baka cringe desu

>>537187696
>Cogmind
I've had this on my backlog for a good while. Is it fun?
I like the theme.

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>>537206493
Yeah, this game cums.
Great onboarding process, fantastic in-game guide. Intuitive system, lot of customization and cool systems to learn.

100% belongs in Top 5 roguelikes, if you're making a list.

>Great onboarding process, fantastic in-game guide. Intuitive system, lot of customization and cool systems to learn.
These are all lies btw, Cogmind expect you to read up guides outside the game because everything that you try to do by yourself will fail.
Oh you picked up a gun and shot something like the game instructed? Rookie mistake, the game doesn't want you to fight people.
Oh you picked up a part? Too bad it doesn't work unless you look up what that part is supposed to work with.

>>537207206
I'm moving it up my backlog then. Looking forward to it.

Played DRL. What's with the sudden difficulty spike after Phobo's? Also what's with the "knowing how enemies are programmed" to cheese the system a requirement? It ruins the immersion if I need to know that stuff. Is Jupiter Hell Classic different compared to this?

>>537208570
Enemy AI in JHC is mostly much the same as in DRL and the entire los/ballistics cheese is left exactly the same, just with more random see-through crates that obstruct bullets but can be wiggled around by manually aiming over enemies.

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>>537207431
You genuinely let your ownfault tilt and filter you
This isn't even the first suggestion since the start of the manual that you shouldn't fight everything and instead focus on going downstairs once you've got some area-appropriate loot.

Idk what part you picked up that had you utterly flabbergasted but I'm willing to bet you did something stupid like installing a flight booster while your only prop method is big fuckoff tank treads, given your enlightened and well reasoned opinion so far.

>>537209772
:( the first area's difficulty is fine but when I saw a vid on what to do at the Wall it just put me off. Makes it feel like the design is made in mind with the player cheesing the mechanic's rather than being straightforward.

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>>537208570
The dev seems to really enjoy some particular burden of knowledge type design mechanics

To them, "having to abuse a gimmick till it's tedious" is just a regular gimmick, playa

>>537210440
The more you read up on internal workings of the engine and the development history the more you realize the entire game is one very elaborate inside joke taken way way too far.
It's one of my favourite games ever but it's really more of a schizo puzzle that merely pretends to be a tactical simulation.

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>>537208570
>Also what's with the "knowing how enemies are programmed" to cheese the system a requirement?
You don't need any of that on HMP or lower.
But if you want to go higher, you generally do need to understand the mechanics.

I think it's fine, because it adds depth to the game if anything.
Corner-shooting and gift dropping are just realities of DoomRL, and you either balance the game around them or not.
If you don't, the game becomes trivial for everyone who interacts with those mechanics.
Everything else you can figure out by playing the game yourself.

DoomRL is honestly great.
I don't particularly like N!, but UV is very fun.

>>537187696
Let it stay dead next time. There's nothing here but ghosts and sad old men.

>>537209964
>Idk what part you picked up that had you utterly flabbergasted but I'm willing to bet you did something stupid like installing a flight booster while your only prop method is big fuckoff tank treads, given your enlightened and well reasoned opinion so far.
>start with ad homiem
>tell other person to give enlightened and well reasoned opinion

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>>537213351
I didn't start with ad hominem
I actually replied to your trogthink and baseless bitchmoaning with ad hominem

You called me a liar, faggot, where the fuck was all this civility two posts ago when you was typin shit about me?

>>537212180
Nah, I think I'll stick around.
If it dies again, I'm taking the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and DF Adventure mode shit out.
Also, we're gonna become an FTL/Void War thread if you fucks don't straighten up.

You try to talk to a Cogmindfag. First thing he does, like in the game, is to put his brain inside his inventory so it can't get damaged. Then the second thing he does is to turn tail and run away from the conversation because combat is intrinsically anti-Cogmind (in fact if he replies to this post, he outs himself as a shill). Then he starts citing things like how he doesn't do things unnecessarily, because that's what the game taught him to do, then piss in a bottle to reduce unnecessary trips to the bathroom.

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>>537214228
Utterly baffled that you could show up, call me a liar, refuse the evidence of your own eyes that the game has a robust manual advising against the EXACT pitfall you complained that the game didn't teach you about.

And then you call me a jugpisser and cry out that I'm a shill if I don't let you shit on everything.

Truly they're only sending their best to the rl gen

>The manual has a paragraph that says "part of this game is a trap, but we implemented it anyway"
Brilliant Chinaman, god bless the CCP

>>537215316
Ok anon, you don't have to keep pretending. We all know you're not retarded enough to think that just because a game has a mechanic you should always maximally engage with that mechanic.
You gluttonous fuck

Cogmindfags be like
>b-b-b-but it's a stealth game
Cogmind is inherently an anti-stealth game. In every other stealth game in existence you are encouraged to engage with the combat and make stealth takedowns or kills and balance it with sneaking around.
In Cogmind thanks to the brilliant level wide alarm, combat is a stupid trap.
>b-b-but you are not supposed to interact with a mechanic
Then don't put it in the game retard chink.

>drivers manual tells you you have to stop at stop signs
>but the FUCKING GOVERNMENT keeps making stop signs ANYWAY

>comparing inaction (stopping) to action (shooting)
Crazy how retarded Cogmindfags are

this used to be a nice thread

The thing is this level of stupidity is only achievable in Cogmind. You don't see it in Infra Arcana because Infra Arcana is a real game made by a person with a brain and not some malnourished CCP rice farmer.

>>537215946
The mechanic you're choosing to engage or not engage with isn't "combat" btw it's "Get the fuck out of Dodge when you bring too much heat down on yourself"

Bet you hate the police in other video games, too, criminal scum.

>>537216138
Post your runs then. I would but I switched to Cogmind instead of IA and I don't wanna hear Coghater bitch about that too

Cogmindshill so retarded he tried to shift blame to Infra Arcana but I one upped him first.
This isn't about IA dumb nigga Cogmind is just a dogshit game.

>>537216069
Stopping is an action.
Avoiding combat is an action.

or
stopping is inaction
not fighting is inaction

pick one

cogmind is a great game, but it isn't a roguelike

cogmind is dogshit and that makes it roguelike

>try out cata last generation
>segfaults on world gen
Cool game bro

>>537216870
Go on. Elaborate.
What retarded malicious interpretation of roguelike are you using to try to rustle my jimmies?

>>537217294
cogmind isn't like rogue

>>537215946
The dev is Chinese?

>>537218261
i think he’s a white guy who lives in korea

>>537218737
You don't know that he's white. He could be black.

More like Cockmind elmaoooo

>>537217716
Ok, Cogmind is a Broguelike.
Next question.

>>537219262
you can see what he looks like here: https://youtu.be/9yJflbg0V38?si=E39RgSDNnnxfxMwh

I'm in your area
Area 51

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Fuck fuck fuck fuck please cmon please fuck

>>537217040
>download week old version
>still crashes
>build it myself
>compile error
>figure out that localize=0 option won't compile
No other roguelike seems to be as much of a pain as cataclysm, any of the versions, really. Takes forever to build as well, just to spite you more.

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>>537229583
My shit is so cooked, I'm not escaping Samsara this time

The creator of Cataclysm is Whales.

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>>537231138
Unsalvageable dogshit run, gg no re

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What the FUCK, Caves of Qud?
Who starts a run like that?
I just pressed New Game, what the hell?

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>>537235725
Oh come on

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>>537235725
You have GOT to be fucking kidding me

>>537236024
Every starting NPC in Joppa except for the Warden, Argyve, the Mechanimist and the Dromad Merchant are dead.

I guess I'm missing out on the one quest but... I have an entire village to loot, mostly consequence free.

How should I best abuse, oh mighty sages?

>>537210440
>made in mind with the player cheesing the mechanic's rather than being straightforward
that's accurate to DOOM then!

I don't get these complaints. There are legitimately nonsense strategies in games which are based around exploiting AI. You can, for instance, cause an AI got get stuck in a loop by toggling what equipment your characters are wearing. You can force a pokemon to use a move which doesn't do anything due to type-matching. These kinds of things reveal that the AI isn't actually a reasonable creature making reasonable decisions based on the information available. There's no part of the handy equipment menu which was ever meant to allow you to preform free micro-stuns by causing the enemy to re-target. It's neither realistic or mechancially interesting.

but then their's your dumb asses

>durr when you shoot around corner that's cheese

>when you notice that AI like to pick up thing and then use it as bait, that's NOT IMMERSIVE

like, swallow a quark or something

>their's your dumb asses
Stopped reading there.
You're 100% black redditor.

>>537236292
I really doubt there is enough worth looting that it justifies losing early NPCs. I would restart.

I know it's a decade old meme, but they removed Ghouls in crawl for their oc dont steal revenant species. I just want to play a generic undead not have some spell gimmick.

>>537245621
>DCSS devs removed
Must be a day ending in "Y"

>>537245621
Revenant is just Ghoul with power creep and LGBT fairy dust anyway. The aptitudes are all the same as Ghoul. The gimmick magic is just free extra power.

DCSS devs are such pieces of shit 2bh.
Deliberately ruined a perfectly sounds game.
The only silver lining is that it's still possible to find the older non-shit versions of the game.

>>537249957
recently heard passwall would instakill you if it got interrupted originally
maybe some changes were good

What roguelikes have the most depth and detail?

Nethack, CDDA, Caves of Qud... what else?

>>537245621
sorry, best i can do is mummy

>no changes to heavy brand in dcss trunk
I guess there's value in having a dead brand in the pool.

>>537252003
Please help and answer please.

>>537252003
Elin/Elona+

>>537252003
>Nethack
If NetHack applies then so does ADOM.

>>537252003
obviously rogue itself, it encompasses all genres and all possible gameplay elements, such that you can correctly say that every other game is "like" rogue

>>537256673
>>537258280
I almost added Elin and ADOM to the list. But yes, I've already played those.

I don't like ADOM, though. I'm a Nethack person.

>>537258349
VR Chat is my favorite roguelike.

>>537258421
ToME has a lot of detail in a very different fashion.
Angband forks are comparatively surface-level but they do feel similarly to NetHack-likes IMO.
I played Frog after decade+ of not touching ASCII and I liked it quite a bit.

>no roguelike with emacs keybinding
>no roguelike that can be embedded in an emacs editor so that an aspiring author can play it in between sessions of writing goon fictions

>>537252003
IVAN

>>537214228
You try to talk to a ToMEfag, but all of his skills are on cooldown for the last schizo he dealt with.
You try to talk to a Cataclysmer, but they haven't found the book that teaches rhetoric yet, and he drives on.
You try to talk to a Chudcaver, but their cacophonous ramble thrums gently with gossamer notes of pretension.

>Became a white draconian
>Find 2 ice magic manuals in an ice cave
Now watch that nigger Veh not give me Absolute Zero again

>>537261147
In this house we aim to win the matches where we don't get lucky, and consider the rest free.

https://youtu.be/-13LUfagQhY?si=7IJA2eUmFAesOR7B

>>537260969
correct answer

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>>537262516

>>537263039
dunno why people cared about this after the "modal" bit, obviously a retard gathering

>>537263948
People are stupid.

>>537249649
gay is ok
nothing makes my dick softer, faster, than "powerful and speshul becos gay"
it's the lamest fuckin thing

>>537243820
Aight, I won't bother then.
Is it really that great? I figure I can't get Harvest from water ritual- Or learn Apple Matz, grab a follower and... Learn secrets?
Is completing the quest/getting bandages off the Elder's son really that great? I've never actually finished the quest- I got BTFO trying in my first attempts a long time ago and heard it's something to aim for later on

>>537211127
Yeah I think I'm out on buying Jupiter Hell Classic then. I'm not interested in that. None of the other roguelikes have this design on purpose or at least as far as I know. In most roguelikes this gains you a benefit by taking advantage of a flaw or limitation but here it just feels like a purposeful design meant to be taken advantage of.

>>537276274
Most roguelikes try to move AWAY from the Nethack/*band era of scribbling magic words on tiles and abusing uniques (like nurses) and polymorphing garbage piles or playing with dropped items

>>537219262
Kek

>>537249957
What versions are fun? Even when I played long ago the dumb smoke dissipates if you cant see it mechanic sucked
>cast freezing cloud
>ohh you cant see the other end of the frrezing cloud because its too thick?
>let me just dissipate it faster to not let you have fun because hey you could take advantage of this by casting freezimg cloud cloud and shut doors to lock enemies in!

>>537261132
Kek

>>537276274
Dunno what others are talking about but the guy explicitly stated that one of the major goals for EA of JHC is mechanical transparency. He already added explicit tohit values that werent in DRL.

>>537275647
The quests are kinda the entire point of doing Joppa start instead of a random village start. I don't really like starting Joppa because the rust well quest is annoying af, but Mehmet's quest rewards are useful consumables. Plus Mehmet sends you to Red Rock which you want to clear anyway for some equipment that is guaranteed to spawn there. I won't spoil you on it, but the equipment comes along with a short note to read, so you'll know when you find it. Even if you do a random village start, you would still want to clear Red Rock before level 10.

If you're struggling on Red Rock then try going to the Six Day Stilt first. You'll get XP just from going there, and Fire Breath, Acid Gas, etc. are all easy mutations to buy for ~10 drams. If you have a ranged weapon and some decent food Red Rock is not that hard.

>>537278798
In DoomRL certain things require indepth knowledge of how the game was coded to have a fair chance of winning. It's similar to speedrunners making use of flaws in the codebase of a game. Difference being one is intentional, the other is not. In this case the devs of DoomRL assume you will take advantage of this. They treat it as the base state of what's required to play this game, rather than a flaw that gets taken advantage of for an added benefit. That's where this game fails. Idk if that is the case woth Jupiter Hell Classic but I'd rather not take my chances on it.

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>>537229837
>run it in debugger
>discover that's it actually running out of memory due to an infinite loop
No idea what that line was supposed to do, but commenting it out makes the game actually able to create a world. Hopefully it doesn't explode later.

>>537279330
>because the rust well quest is annoying af
How so? NTA but I like starting at Joppa though that might just be because I played it long ago and enjoy starting there for nostalgia or something, maybe just autism?

>>537261132
You try to talk to an Elingrinder, but the wiki doesn't have this conversation so they can't reply.

>>537281547
It's just tedious fighting 100 qudzu in a row and getting your shit rusted.

>>537282584
Should've been born a flightchad, better luck next life

>>537279659
The whole point of JH was removing all of that jank, so it's really stupid to say the devs like it that way. They're also removing it from DRL/JHC slowly - radar shooting was nerfed a full version ago, now this version nerfed gift dropping and added an enrage timer that kills all "mass wait in corner" strategies. Corner-shooting apparently is getting proper cover indicators next version.

>>537245621
They just really hate "vanilla" species for whatever reason. Just like how Ogre became Ogre with tiny horns and a very niche free attack when chugging healing potions. And how you can't just have a plain jane centaur, it needs to be a special armadillo-centaur hybrid thing.

>>537261132
>>537282485
You try to talk to a Dungeoncrawler, but talking has been removed in trunk

>>537276937
To be quite to be honest, this has always been my major gripe with DCSS.
"X was too effective so we buttfucked it"
Like doing anything but fishing for branch-enabling resists isn't allowed, any tactic that lets you improve your gameplay strategy beyond The Vision™ gets kneecapped.
Some real MiBe only, no items, Zot Destination faggot shit

>cleared aircraft carrier in DDA
They really did just add infinite of literally everything in a single location. Theres nothing unique in the carrier, no unique enemies or rooms or loot. Couldn't they have made it into a dungeon like transcoast logistics with a boss at the end, maybe make part of the carrier sunken and have crazy shit in that part. Any amount of creativity other spamming basic soldier zombies and having
[55 ammo cans > 41 5.56 ammo boxes > 20 5.56x45mm NATO] (45k total ammo from 1 of the like 6-7 armories)

>>537290449
DDA hasn't been worth playing in 3 years.

>>537289893
Reminds me how the troon devs are offended by the suggestion that bat form shouldn't silence you, because "then people will use it to kite enemies." It's apparently supposed to be an escape tool and you're NOT allowed to use it in any other way.

Or the stegosaurus egg that only hatches with enemies in sight because otherwise people will hatch it before going into dangerous areas.

Or the attacks of opportunity that have to exist because pillar dancing against D1 gnolls and D3 ogres was abusive.

Or the talismans that need 5 turns to deactivate because otherwise people will deactivate their forms with negative poison resist when they see monsters with poison damage.

Or the new Zot 5 design that infinitely spawns monsters because otherwise people will carefully clear the monsters one by one instead of bumrushing it.

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Got my second JHC win finally

After many failed attempts at Gun Kata got disappointed in it and left it as last pick but it could probably work fine early in this run
Tactical set with phaseshift boots on top got me to 0,46s move time
9mm once again proved its superiority for pistol calibers, only trumped by some uniques
Void is as silly as ever
Harbinger was bullied into a far corner of his altar with zero resistance

Funny how in addition to Void this seed also spawned Avalanche, Firestorm and CRI blaster - a complete set of no-ammo guns iirc

>>537293025
Fucking ganking pillar dancing, of all things, was insane to me. There's no way that was an experienced roguelike player's opinion, you can't... Sure, you made people "stop running in circles around pillars" and maybe you think that's le hecking dumb and not ebin

But it fucking collaterals something like a half of all higher order position based tactics and now you get scuffed to fuck trying to position enemies advantageously. Now that every enemy has a magical danger zone... It feels like trying to turn DCSS into a tab targeting MMO, where the grid is just a convention they're trying to work around and not a part of the game.

Fuckin talismans just made me throw my hands up in the air and give up when I came back to it and in all honesty the most I'm willing to engage with them is "Yeah this got added as wish fulfillment for some furry"

>>537294231
I wish you could more reliably fish for ammoless weapons to feed Gun Kata with, for me it feels like ammo is impossible to manage otherwise

>>537299306
One big problem with JHC Gun Kata is how when you door-dance it shoots from tiles that are behind cover, NOT from ones that have you and enemy in direct line of fire from each other, and the half-broken implementation of targeting lines means you shoot at the wall half the time. That's probably how you lose all your ammo. Otherwise pistols are very ammo-efficient.
Gun Kata now is strictly for big open areas, never attempt dancing cover to cover with it and you will have more than enough ammo.
But then you will inevitably end up with no ammo in your gun and more visible enemies than you are comfortable with, because you do not get DRLs free reloads.
Honestly idk if Gun Kata even has a viable use on regular maps that are anything but conveniently long halls with sparse columns.
Especially if you try Gun Kata asap before maxing all of accuracy, reload speed and speed/dodge.

this general would benefit a lot from having a list of games people new to the genre should try before asking questions, there's like 20 different recommendations in op

>>537303464
Well?
Make a list then.

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>>537187696
So far really liking the tight focus of cogmind.
I like the sound (the fact that it factors in proximity is neat)
I like the art, especially the detail of the animations.
I like how the tile set doesn't try to depict realistic figures (e.g. what tome does with humanoids)
I like how there is no xp making fighting secondary to the primary goal of going up, instead of fighting being a required step in going up

I dislike how the first 4 levels are just shitty "pick your load out" in disguise tedium. As in, if the game had a simple, pick your "class" and load out screen at the start and put you on lvl 5 it would be more enjoyable on resets. But I guess part of the problem is that I need to gitgud so I don't see resets as often.

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>>537308771
Any negative effects associated with just sitting around to give my analyzers to their work on the map? Other than a lower final score that is.

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>>537309794
I have my answer, a little cunt comes in to tattle on me.
Gave me flashbacks of playing SS13 and killing someone in some hidden away closet and a random clown walks in and just goes "uuuhh" standing there for a couple of seconds before walking back out again screaming over coms.

>>537293432
You've had all game to prepare, surely you're you can handle a boss with 1(one) mechanic, right anon?

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>>537310173
how fucked am I?

>>537308771
I should play some cogmind to check out the new stuff
You should try a stealth/hacking build at some point, to read the lore and discovering the hacking commands is always useful for future runs

>>537215946
You can dominate a main floor to the point that the complex gives up and tries to burn you out because multiple waves of assault squads broke against you. More typically you can simply fight stuff as you find it and use multiple methods to reduce alert in between fights. Heavy combat isn't always easy but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

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>>537311378
apparently I am still ok

>>537312638
I came across a data jack, but it seems like the cost on slots is hard to justify this early on?

>>537308771
>I dislike how the first 4 levels are just shitty "pick your load out" in disguise tedium.
Most of the items in Materials are trash to tide you over until Factory. It's never too late to pivot when you find something better.
>>537311378
>adv emp blaster
You're fine. EMP could set off the alarm traps but if it gets the crowd under control it's fine.

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fuck ye, thought I was a gonner for sure, but made it to the next floor.

>>537313383
Datajack is for robot hacking and really dedicated stuff, I meant basic terminal hacking. When you eventually find your way into the derelict base the npcs will teach you the basics for hacking machines

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>>537314154
>see stairs
>use it
>end up in a cave
>ohno.jpg
>"beast" appears
ya, goodnight inventory.

>>537313383
One thing to note is that your lil fella is a tough cookie.
You can survive pretty long as just a core, especially given how it impacts your speed- Your core is actually fairly tanky.

Ducking into a room to break line of sight and install some more parts is also usually pretty safe. Even if you're just slapping on a flight module so you can fly past robots in corridors (make sure to offline your melee), it's pretty quick to install stuff.

Breaking line of sight is really strong and, of course, if you get handy with the terminals you can always try recalling investigations/assaults too.

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>>537317271
>kill the beast
>walk into corridor
>hidden door
>opens as I walk by and discover it
>"surprise motherfucker"
whoever said combat wasn't part of this game or a mechanic meant to interact with has clearly not played this game.

>>537317759
oh, using terminals like that is good to know, so far been dodging the fights I can, but in this cave system I am kinda pushed into a corner.

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>>537318204
welp, had to attach some hover units and ditch my storage unit (along with its contents) to get to an acceptable mass and then legged it (or hovered it). On the next floor now, but still in the cave.

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>>537319728
the gift that keeps on giving

>>537321062
How strong is the cannon to the south? Strong enough to break walls? You might be able to dig an alternate path and avoid him, though a dig longer than 3 tiles risks cave-in when you walk through it.

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>>537321062
seismic detector saving my robo skin here letting me track the beast (really am in no position to fight it with only 5 spare parts to my name).

>>537321251
all those parts are discarded broken/corrupted parts.

>>537293025
it's hard to believe the shitto "fight started, now afk for 3 turns" spells like egg and bee and blazeheart are in the same as something as sick as gell's gavotte

>>537245621
I was really annoyed when they changed transmutations. Come on, man — a wizard turning into a dragon is a D&D classic!

>>537252003
It depends on what you mean by depth and detail.

Tome4 has a lot of combat depth. You’ve got 20 or more skills to use for attacks or buffs, and three pages of stats to keep in mind when deciding how to engage.

Nethack excels in system interactions. You’re constantly surprised by emergent mechanics — like discovering that setting a wooden wand on fire destroys it and releases all 20 fireballs.

CDDA (Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead) has depth in its survival mechanics rather than its roguelike aspects. To stay alive, you can craft all kinds of things out of all kinds of materials.

CoQ (Caves of Qud) sits somewhere in the middle. It offers cool interactions, like permanent body-swapping, and the combat is somewhat interesting. It does a lot of things decently, but doesn’t push any single aspect to the extreme.

>>537324917
CDDA suffers horribly from lack of purpose or incentives. No, it doesnt need a dopamine dripfeed of achievements and goals, but it could do with something more than "survive". Doesn't help the world and its lore really arent that interesting, so you can't even set any self imposed goals that aren't somehow tied, again, to the goal "survive".
It also misses overarching world mechanics like factions (no, a handful of barely interactive NPCs in a hub a faction does not make).
And all of that wouldn't even be bad, if the one goal, survival, was even moderately hard, but it isn't. What is hard is learning the mechanics, after that it is just another menu crafterlooter like any other.

>>537318362
Once you've escaped from the bowels of the beast, you should give terminals a try, yeah.
They all have different "visible" hacks per different terminal (and once you know a type of query you can make you can do (z) Manual Command to force it, at a penalty) and when you fail you'll START a trace that locks out the terminal and generates some alert- You can just cut your losses and cheese it scot-free before that though.

>>537318204
The fucking melee bots are the no1 cause of my late early game rails. They just fuck me up, fuck up my parts, stop me from dumping AoE into other bots, and bypass my largely ranger centric utilities. They are also fastasfucbois, so you are only running from them on hover/fly platforms.

>>537327230
The transition to goal oriented progression game- Get food, a base, win over NPC factions, make individual locations actually difficult to loot and worthwhile once you do, make the player establish some kind of viable farm and base, chase some MacGuffin or break into some facility to hit the OFF switch

Fuck, that takes a singular purpose and vision. Not seventeen cats in a sack wrestling over which color dildo to add next.

Making incremental updates to the granularity of the simulation is easy
Picking and sticking to a specific direction for the gameplay is hard

>>537327230
This is why I could never get into cdda. I play it, learn soms mechanics, build a base and then I'm just like "and now what?". Ya I can expand my base, but to what end? No trade, no population to take care of, keeping zombies out becomes trivial. It's like building a base and surviving a full year IS the goal, and everything after is like remaining seated in the cinema when the credits roll, or the kojimbo jeep ride.

I keep on dying while playing stoneshard, all my spells damage me wtf

Hey demon castle of ooe dev if you're reading this could you add a back button to the equipment purchase screen after you select a class? It's a minor thing but sometimes I change my mind on the class I want to play and a back button would be more convenient than closing and reopening the game.

>>537331670
did you try backspace? >>536683956

>>537331872
Ah that does it, thanks!

>The elin thread is in /jp/
>despite /rlg/ being pretty slow

why is dis? did someone have a tuna melty and scare off all the eliners

>>537332543
The elona/elin thread has been in /jp/ since the dawn of time.

>>537332543
Origin is because back in there day there was no real english translation, then when there was an english translation it was pretty terrible for the longest time. So it, like touhou, stayed in /jp/

Is Sil the "tightest" RL? As in, no fluff, no nonsense, no dumb useless mechanics, no "what do I even do?", no reading books to level up

>>537327230
I've said it before, DDA needs more serious evolution timers. If you stay long enough in one area it should keep getting worse and worse exponentially. Not just zombies evolving, but more zombies, portal storms dumping more fucked up shit, slime pits, fungus, werewolves, nuclear winter, acid rain, solar storms, whatever, constant base assaults.
It should be stay in one place and build a fortress, or move from place to place constantly on the run from bad shit.
Lets you put a few simple easy to implement end goals too. Like for example have each of the finales permanently end their associated issue. Close the portal, no more portal storms, exterminate the fungus, no more fungus, etc... Make a quick setpiece for each type and have it control the entire region. If you take out everything you can play farming simulator now, you won.
Alternatively just let you join all the factions, just like you can effectively join the fungus and mutant factions already, and have them take over a region.

You can avoid the performance fucking too if you just simulate the factions abstractly and only spawn random hordes that don't exist unless you're looking at them and not ten billion fungus particles.

I've been trying out human fighter of okawaru, and I've faulted like 10 times now but somehow I just don't die ever. Is this normal?
Like I'll get into a bad situation, surrounded, elites with wands, slowed, red health, etc... and instead of just running away or burning resources I just activate haste and heroism and kill everything then regen from single digit hp.
Usually even with max caution and expending all my resources I die instantly the first time I make a mistake, this feels weird.

I want roguelike mechanics (topdown, turns with turntime actions) but with an RPG coating (story, geography, lire).
The genre is over 3 decades old and we haven't really ventured beyond "go down levels to fetch prize", I want more.

>>537335363
I'm working on that
It's tough thoughbeit

>>537335363
CoQ has that. It's shit and pretentious, but there is a main story questline.

>>537335363
Been asking for Zelda X Roguelike for years. I'd do it myself if I were any good at coding.

>>537335069
Okawaru is pretty strong. You can easily stat check every monster in the game with double attack speed, but you can still die to disabling effects, torment, or attrition.

Compare that to Trog who has built in willpower and regen, but his berserk is obviously inferior to double attack speed, and you can see the tradeoffs. Lotta gods will straight up carry you in this game, and most gods give you plenty of piety to use their abilities. It's such a powerful part of your character that often you can fill up XP recharging abilities/items with god abilities, and then fill up god piety with those XP recharging abilities/items in a never ending loop. This is how team LGBT intends for you to play the game.

>>537335487
I disliked CoQ story, because it was essentially just loredumps locked bevind quest progressions. I didn't feel my actions were a driving force. I just did whatever the quest required me to do, and as a reward soms NPC or item or locale would become accesible and I would get a bunch of text dumped on my screen.

When it comes to narrative, RLs could do with a lot of improvent.

>>537335069
seems about right. hasted fightermans hit hard and jank dcss consumables are jank and hard to use well.

>>537335363
Underrail 2 seems to do energy system turns

>>537327230
They (or was it Kevin) still using the excuse about NPC's being too complex to program or was that fanboy's claiming it?

>>537334285
Sil wasn't even the tightest RL of 2012, bro.
Try Sil-Q if you want more of the same

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huh that;s a weird spawn for herbalist hut

>>537263948
too many trolls declaring that vim is a roguelike

>>537263948
What modal bit

>>537335363
Cogmind is the only rl I played that does it in a decent way imo

The One Piece roguelike (which is real) made in BYOND engine will have a strong narrative.

>>537346287
>The One Piece roguelike is real
sure grandpa, let's get you to bed

>>537339821
what's roughly the difference between Sil and Sil-Q again?

>>537348057
It's the "-Q".

>>537330165
guys my bad
I realized I completely fucked up my character build, I 'respecd" and now everything with the right abilities and skills it feels less unfair
arcanist goes brrrr

>>537335363
Stoneshard does that a little if your're into fantasy and medieval stuff

>>537335363
>you know what would be a great addition to your focused procedural strategy game genre?
>a bunch of shitty ass lore dumps and fetch quests
Go away Kevin.

>>537351351
>focused procedural strategy game genre
This isn't the Civilization general

>>537349134
I think I understand.

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>Sil-Q download is 7 MB
>Look inside
>Compiler needed to build Sil-Q is 3 GB

>>537351351
I really fucking wish the fucking dumbass fucking TOME 4 devs would write like just ten more fucking quests we've been on TOME 4 for like TEN FUCKING YEARS holy shit dude no amount of

You
You guys are so fucking LAZY holy SHIT, how fucking hard is it to build a mission module you lazy CUNTS you've got fuckin one and a third campaigns and like four sidequests, no I don't give a SHIT about your dumb potion quest anymore give me like FOUR MORE JUST LIKE IT already GOD DAMMIT

>>537357416
>game doesn't even have that many quests
>one of the them (potion) literally features randomly unsolvable choices because it's based on random drop

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>>537357560

So the condenser vane is good. It makes acid and damage.

If there's a big collection of enemies, you can use this to place damage near all of them. In order to keep that damage active, you can't retreat afterwords, or your clouds disappear. Using this item, you can hold your ground against a very strong and large group of enemies.

However, if you're able to hold your own against the damaged swarm, then you probably could have retreated and dragged a small number of enemies with you and beat those.

So, while the vane lets you feel really powerful, isn't there no real difference between using it to clear the enemies, and just clearing the enemies one-by-one? If you didn't have the vane, wouldn't you still be able to clear the same enemies without using consumables? IT seems like the absence of the vane would make not difference, if used in this way.

>>537357982
These fucks keep looking for modern "skill expression" to add to the game. It "trivializes" encounters, so it has to go.

It's not clear what the skills ARE, if they're not "understanding the items and mechanics" and "using them to their fullest extent" but it IS clear that if something "trivializes" an encounter then it's NOT skill-based expression, right?

This is how you get Dragon Age Veilguard gameplay, mark my words: Where the buttons you're pressing don't matter and the build isn't important, so long as you ARE pressing buttons and you do have your points assigned.

Roguelikes should be thought about and puzzled through, not locked onto the rails depending on your race/god.

You know what?
Just for that I'm downloading Trunk rn

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>>537360171
...What the fuck are parchments are you shitting me?

Should've stayed on 0.24

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>>537355642
wtf

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am bout to play infra arcana for the first time
any tips?

>>537360009
I'm failing to see the connection between
"something's odd about the condenser vane and I might be misusing it" and
"designers keep dragging games towards autobattle"

Not sure why you said all that.

Are you accusing them of getting rid of the condenser vane by nerfing it or something?

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vshitter incel = rlg
successful man = roguelite player

>>537364619
cosplayer = me

>>537245621
>leave /rlg/ for 9 years
>see it in catalog
>decide to have a look
>DCSS still has things left to remove
I'm shocked.

>>537362149
He's saying that their point of balance for all strategies/tactics is the neutral point AKA doing nothing.
If using an item is objectively superior to not using it, then it's rebalanced until they're equivalent.
Hence the condenser vane has been "perfectly balanced" to not affect gameplay in any serious way compared to just normal tactics.

>>537366434
A bit more understandable.

Seems a bit like nonsense.
Like, ambrosia. Is it balanced around the neutral point? No, right? Because it's better in some situations compared to others, and a small number of situations have ambrosia as massively better than doing nothing.

>>537366991
The balancing has not yet been completed.
In the future these recklessly overpowered "consumables" will be rebalanced to cause mutation and contamination effects so every choice to use them is a gamble. Perhaps all potions will be merged into a single perfectly efficient item which just randomly selects an effect each time it's used.

>>537367214
Namalex cards are massively better than doing nothing. A single "any potion" action would also be massively better than doing nothing, but just as difficult to use as old namalex cards, or xom actions.

Anyway, if we admit that ambrosia is better than inaction when used correctly, then the difference between ambrosia being worse than nothing and better than nothing is the choice of the player on when to use it.

If that is the case, then it is implied that the same can be true for the condenser vane. Perhaps the correct use of the condenser vane is 1v1s, for instance, though that doesn't seem right due to its randomness.

That's what I was after, was talk about how to force the vane to actually be useful.
>"What is the use case?"

>>537367692
Specifically? The condensor is still really powerful.
It's a good panic button for when you can't run away and have to stand and fight.
It's a wall against other clouds.
It functions kinda like walls for many creatures, trapping them and helping you run away.
It even works in kill holes, not as powerful but still useful.

If you think about it in reverse there's really not that many scenarios you wouldn't want to be using it, and the only reason you don't is either you don't have it, it's out of charge, or you're trying to save it for later.

>>537357982
you may be planning to take a nice controlled engagement, but drac shifters and malevolent forces often have other plans

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love me vane, love me root wand, 'ate running, 'ate zerking

>>537360959
Tonehack on YouTube
Don't kill everything, there is no xp
Exception is cultists for their loot

>play cdda
>expect fall out
>get fall out 4 with NPCs and locations removed and its worst feature, base building, left in
Well that was disappointing

>>537351351
?
Take a game like Zelda
Give it turns
Make dungeons deeper, harder and possibly procedurally generated, keep big reward at end of each dungeon
Keep NPCs
Keep overarching narrative
No need for loredumps

Stuff like this can be done, it's just that it is a ton of effort for a genre that doesn't sell. CoQ is probably one of the few RLs with a pricetag that is moderately well known, and it's hardly massive money.

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holy shit cutting it close, pretty sure I am done for now though, no parts left.

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>>537376627
anyone have any smart ideas, I believe I am literally fried. Fuck these little unhittable system corrupting cunts

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>>537377381
AAAAH WHY IS THIS A DEADEND

>>537334629
>DDA needs more serious evolution timers.

I disagree.

>>537377554
I'm sorry anon
I hope you find a weapon very very soon so you can equip your armor and make your last stand

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>>537377554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jCAyPai2Y

>>537378110
Actually pretty amazed how long you lasted after >>537319728, I don't think I have ever recovered from having to ditch my inventory

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is this good, is this bad? I have no idea, this was my first real run at this since playing this guy's prototype 7DRL years and years ago.

Fun though, one of the most polished roguelikes I have played, it actually feels like a game rather than a project or work in progress.

Is maidensnow the only good H Roguelike out there?

>>537382026
>H roguelike

Roguelikers are all asexual trannies so I can't see H-likes being popular.

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Did I ever mention that Void is fucking ridiculous?
Just blind scanned the map beyond LOS, clockwise or counterclockwise, until everything was voided.
Seems to be unpopular opinion, Sharpshooter feels stronger than other pistol masteries, with more freedom to pick an extra trait and control in combat.

Anyway, Tech win came way faster than expected, but feels hollow for being carried hard by the same gun again.

>>537382163
That's only the western players thoughever

>>537387865
1 abymsal dogshit please, and randomly generate it.

Don't worry /rlg/ my roguelike will be a success
Just pray for my soul

my open world survival crafting roguelike with rape mechanics is almost complete.

>>537393942
If it has no graphics, I'm not playing

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I'm finally losing my virginity guys. Wish me luck.

How do I use the Bright Nights .aab to make an .apk? If I have to use google play store or anything Google related I'm dropping this fork.

>>537349214
Any tips for a magic run?

>>537395616
what roguelike doesnt have graphics

>>537238528
the problem is when combat degenerates from something fun into something boring once you start playing optimally

>>537393942
If it has graphics, I'm not playing

>>537335416
Same. How far along are you

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>>537407331
For now I'm not doing anything crazy: I never played the game before, I'm a lvl 6 chilling in Osbrook.
Got the first three Arcanist perks, the "Battle Trance" one and "Step aside!".
My strategy so far is telport and confuse them while staying still and waiting for the enemy, then whack them with my staff.
Will probably invest future skills in Survial and one Arcane Magistry seal

I tried to go Pyromancer/Arcanist/Dual daggers, and it was fun but enemies mopped the floor with me, so I died a lot and figured dipping in other stuff is not really the way to go, at least in these early levels
now the game feels more fun and I kinda feel "powerful"

>>537400798
>I'm finally losing my virginity guys.
don't come back

>>537360959
To pile on to "don't fight everything" it's important to remember that nearly every non-cultist enemy will forget about you in a few turns once you're out of sight. Also, they've got deliberately inefficient pathfinding often, so even if you think they'll stay hot on your heels half their turns are devoted to Wait or Walk Random or Retreat 1 type shit.

Rat things barely care about you even when you are sighted, but will swarm in numbers.
Invisible undead will (more or less) give up on you if you move even just a few tiles away
Walking dead will reanimate once, unless you destroy their corpse via kicking (read your items, Hatchets and other items will make this much easier), in addition to being big fuck off noisy tanks.
Snakes are evasive in melee and some variants spit blinding poison from range.
And lastly, wolves- Wolves are the harbingers of death. If you reveal an entire pack, you probably need to just shut the door. They're fast, high damage and will gleefully surround you. If you can't immediately step through a door or into a one tile wide hallway then you need to start blowing resources a turn ago- Darkbolt, fire your revolver off, STRONGLY consider a scroll or molotov.

Oh... and keep your gun out, cutter. Anything you want to save ammo on, you can take your time pulling out that hatchet. Cultist rounds the corner, you put a bullet tween his eyes before he says IA, got it?

>>537407331
Respect enemies that can mult strike you. My 7lvl Pyromancer died to double daggers bandit. He took me from 55 to 0. I assumed i can finish him in meele because he was at like 10% hp. I've missed my staff multi strike and he deleted me.

>>537357982
>>537367692
there are a lot of spots where taking the giant brawl, and at least clearing most of it on the first round, is the safest option.
are you gonna one-by-one a rape gang waiting just inside a branch entrance/grouped stairs? you're courting death every time you reenter.

>>537427391
this, a 100 times this
I said I feel "confident" now, but that's about my character's potential when it comes to killing enemies
in reality, a couple bandits can screw my day with ease, and wolves are still the most terrifying creatures

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Don't worry /rlg/ my roguelike will begin a roguelike renaissance. It will cost 34.99 btw and sell 1 million copies before the roguelike renaissance begins.

>>537335363
maybe i'll work on it, maybe not seeing as a couple other guys started making something like it. anyways im making something else in the mean time and i can say for a fact i hate coding proc gen.

>>537357416
Isn't it just one dude and isn't it open source for whatever reason?

>>537442812
Indeed, good sir. Roguelike renaissance. . .i do declare . . indeeeed

*sigh*.....idiots......

>>537444940
It's also a little itty bitty bit monetized so I feel super fuckin entitled about it.

>>537444940
It is one dude and at least 2 trannies contributing
Kinda crazy

>>537465610
>and at least 2 trannies contributing
what? they're not about to ruin ToME are they?

>>537468948
The guy who makes the majority of the game is pretty committed to whatever tolkien-like vision he has, so no, but he lets them contribute code and run his discord.
That said, idk if it's going to get any update.

>>537187696
>You faggots let the thread die
not our fault if this general is already fucking dead for years, you dimwit

>>537472090
It's okay, you just gotta savescum,

>>537472960
>savescum
why do they get so butthurt about this? it's like the CoQ dev making it harder to have fun with precog. not like he can stop me from making use of it by backing up the game from several map tiles away to get around his little anti fun design.

>>537474902
It does deflate the stakes and tension when you can always just jump back to a previous save, so I understand folks who want to communicate the gameplay value of trying to avoid doing it.
. But when a game's buggy I will back up my save, and if I die to the cat stepping on my keyboard or something, I will happily savescum and feel no regret. And getting mad at other people doing it is silly, unless they are actively encouraging other people to do it as if not doing it is wrong or dumb.

>>537475660
Save scumming usually isn't a problem in CoQ because you can literally just choose whether you want permadeath or not. This is the right way to do it IMO, because the people who actually want permadeath will hold themselves to it without a bunch of restrictions being coded into the game.

But in some other games, especially outside the roguelike genre, save scumming becomes a problem in a few situations. Either the dev designs the game's probabilities in such a way that save scumming is far and away the best way to see the content, or the game itself teaches players to save scum by giving them unpredictable game overs
("I don't know if this is going to kill me, so I'm going to save before I choose that option" was a common thing I said to myself in Disco Elysium for instance). A well-designed game shouldn't even tempt the players to save scum, but it's admittedly quite hard to design a game so perfectly that it never comes up. If the game doesn't completely negate the idea of save scumming, it should at least try not to tempt the players to do it, for instance by giving them other ways to deal with randomness.

>>537474902
you can toggle on save options in the settings for qud including quicksave/quickload hotkeys. Precog and sphynx salt are just more fun ways of making you work for it

>>537474902
Wait, precog got nerfed? How so?
All I know is that the lil gay wristband tugs on your dick (who cares, lmao, that's more flavor than anything) by spawning spatial vortexes and that the +attribute cooking has a literally hardcoded progression track for if it works or not (turbo gay but not a crime, I guess)
What am I missing?

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super cool Faction
I wonder then who's 6th and last bigwig

roguelikes with this mechanic?
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxW13Gex5OcP270aRMANp_NHwHL_SocoSZ

brb food

>>537187696
What the fuck happened to the dwarf fortress general? Also, how is adventure mode these days?

>>537499712
/vg/ is the gacha board now. Dwarf Fortress general is on /vst/.

>>537500625
When the fuck did that happen?

>>537501124
When they refused to make a gacha board. Lots of generals got pushed out. /rlg/ is on the chopping block next.

>>537502163
Fault.

dead general

is making a roguelike even possible? people talk about it but i never see screenshots past the "@ walks around an empty room" stage.

>>537516989
There were several playable roguelikes pasted here in the past.

>>537517402
w-what happened to them?

>>537524428
They were created for 7 day game events and the link to those events aren't in the OP anymore.
One of those was mine and I still work on it but due to large changes in direction I haven't posted any update

Forget everything, last generation has performance 10x better than dda, that's crazy

Roguelike like Cultist Simulator or Sultan's Game?

Rouglike that's like rogue?

>>537524428
No money = why work on it? Pay up /rlg/don't you want roguelikes? What, you're not willing to pay up? Then keep playing your decade old roguelikes.
>CoQ
Intially free, now $29.99
>ToME
Free except for DLC and for the fact so many people just love giving away their money, $19.96. Maybe less if you get the free version and then buy DLC.
>Dwarf Fortress
Free unless you want those graphics, $29.99
>CDDA
Not one, but two different versions both of which are not controlled by the original creator of the game. $19.99 and $5.99 both available for free though.
>Jupiter Hell Classic
An updated version of DRL but it costs $14.99.
>Cogmind
Was it ever free? Now this is another pricey one, $24.99.
>Quasimorph
And yet another pricey one, $19.99.

>>537538923
Jupiter Hell Classic sucks ass, I don't regret paying money for Jupiter Hell or Cogmind though.

...Quasimorph was bait, I liked my first couple runs before I realized I had to play empire maker.

I'm never going to pay money for those first 4, kill yourself.
3/7, gimme more roguelikes wagecuck

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>>537538923

>>537207206 >>537216231
I am blind as a bat then - I bought the game but damn it is so TINY.

is Infra Arcana worth my time? I've already got a crazy backlog of games like the rest of us, but the setting of Infra sure sounds neat

>>537294231
how are you liking JH Classic? how is it different from DoomRL?

>>537538923
tlg on steam is controlled by the main dev of tlg
even if kevin himself were to put DDA to steam, he wouldn’t be the original creator of cataclysm

>>537542253
>how are you liking JH Classic? how is it different from DoomRL?
Less fun imo.
I don't like how progression for both player and enemies is slower. Feels like repeating same level over and over, then getting insignificant power up once moving to next act to grind its one level another 6 times, and again, and again.

>>537538923
>Pay up /rlg/
No.

>>537540996
>Quasimorph was bait
I read it was a stock market simulator on here. Plus Sseth, despite clearly upselling it, said stuff that made it obvious that it isn't fun. Oh wow I have to overthink every move or I die? Nah no thanks.

>>537378452
Making it to mid-factory is a good milestone.
>get filtered by factory for a while
>get filtered by research for a while
>get filtered by access for a while
>win
Check out the ends of cave branches (go all the way west on the second caves map instead of taking the exit close to the start) for a lot of possible information and rewards, but of course you do need to be geared up going in to survive the whole trip from and to the complex.

>>537469309
When was the last update? I only vaguely recall him making some paid content free to play. Has the game even changed much since ~2015 if you don't pay up for the DLC?

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>>537542253
Try uh
Try making it not tiny

Also, IA is super worth, despite me shitting the thread up bitching about it.
It's not terribly complex and runs either go well or they go bad. You won't spend time scrounging for specific items to conquer a branch or looking for answers to a tough monster like the hack/bands.

You're either going down or you're dead.
Like pouring river water in your shoes. It's quick, it's easy and it's free.

>>537538923
Bright Nights is still free

>>537554426
Ok? They’re all free

>>537542253
JHC is much cleaner than DRL's jank and seems to be even more heading that direction. Lotsa stuff added that DRL didn't have. It is a bit slower but the traits are getting more interesting then -1 to speed +1 damage, and each class has more of its own identity. Too bad the nostalgia factor isn't there, but after a while that doesn't matter much.

>>537542862
I guess nobody remembers Whales

(I mean, I do. I even sent him a couple patches)

>Glaive of the guard; one of the only reasons to use a 2H weapon; gets nerfed twice.
>The demon trident unrand is untouched and still completely ignores a mechanic designed to balance polearms for "flavor" reasons.
>Last version adds a new 1H polearm type that is both top-tier and way too common.
>All of this is only looking at polearms.
>Trunk adds a bunch of new orbs, aka another reason to not play two-handed.
For supposedly being balancefags, DCSS devs are allergic to buffing two-handed weapons. Crab talisman doesn't count. I have not seen a single run in my entire life that uses that shit.

>>537236024
>Tell off-color joke
>Warden destroys your entire village

>>537564106
Two hand only exists so you know what you're NOT getting because you have to sacrifice your offhand to some garbage.
Two handing isn't average or well-rounded or "drawbacks" anon
It's just specializing in a thing and doing good at that thing. There's no eternal equilibrium with 2-handers

>>537564106
partisan is a real head scratcher