Previous thread: >>543964431>PC Client (Stove)https://www.onstove.com/en/download>Reroll guidehttps://game8.co/games/Chaos-Zero-Nightmare/archives/559640>codesNO CODES>Reroll tipsRerolling hinges on you getting a 5 star within 40 pulls. Meaning you won't meet the special banner pityThat means you always roll on the standard banner until you get a 5 starAfter you get your 5 star, you star rolling on the special banner because it has pity at 50 pulls instead of 80.You essentially save yourself potentially 30 pulls.>Why are my cards not savingYou're doing low difficulty chaos stages.Level up, progress more and unlock harder abyss stages so you can save better stuff and have access to better cards and gear.This system is in place so people don't grind for perfect godly decks on low difficulty chaos stages with zero risk while ignoring the harder ones.
wtf where's my Hugo OP??????
Do any of these accounts stick out so I can stop rerolling already?
I FUCKED UP THE SUBJECT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>5439889321 by a longshot idiot
>>543988932Account 2 is a glass canon build with Mei Lin + Mika + Selena. It's a good deck.
>>5439889323x5* is better than 2x5* which is better than 1x5*.4* don't matter much because the game gives you the best one (Mika).
>>543988990>more popular in the USAConfirmed that the Japanese don't care about gameplay
Where is my Tenebria expy you fags?
Players are NOT happy about the save data scandal
Why didn’t we just mind wipe Rei after she got juiced in the story? The save data was fucking shit anyways.
>>543989084Anniversary character
>>543989115>he watch ccignored
>>543988990Let the devs try to intepret whatever is happening here.
>>543989084She's already in the game as a partner named Brialook at her and Kayron's profile
>>543989115stop shilling your channel dumbass
>is seemingly nopan>in the breakdown pic you can't see a braBros?
Daily life status?
>>543989115>There's a UI for choosing what you keep in a SaveData>It's left completely unimplemented and untranslatedcurious
>>543989251Maybe that's where the confusion comes from.>Where is my underwear???
>>543989236giga retard we'll get another partner named tene and theyll fuse into a combatant to be released on anni
>>543989236Oh, thanks. Dropped.
>>543988990>16% indonesia
I really feel like the game shouldn't have tried to be Arknights. Should've gone the Darkest Dungeon route where you're just sitting at the edge of the hole beating by the eldritch horrors as you can. Hell, even ZZZ does it better with Hollows basically being Chaos zones.
I heard this was like Slay the Spire. Is the gameplay actually good or are cards locked behind the gacha?
>>543989236Stop saying this nonsense, she has nothing to do with Tenebria, Kayron has his full name and the design is similar, Bria is nothing like Tenebria, shut the fuck up already.
>>543989312Wait really? Then maybe there's some hope.The system is fixed if they allow you to choose how to nerf your decks/buildsUnless, at max difficulty, you get to keep everything no matter what. But even then, they should implement that system anyway for newbies
the fuck is order card?
>>543988990>White people play CZN more@grok what does this statistic mean?
>>543989350i dont get you referencing AK when theres no super cancer its really just /zzz/ if you were a normal proxy instead of the super giga proxy as it is there im playing both doe
>>543989483element
>>543989350I actually like the space opera setting, but man it's totally lost with all the slice of life shit and rushed, poorly translated slop.>>543989393Each character has a unique deck, but smaller in scope.You put 3 on a team but have to gacha to expand the roster.
>>543989393yes and yes.
Does anybody know the save data math, or do you just have to feel it out what the cap is?
>>543989350>I really feel like the game shouldn't have tried to be ArknightsIn what way? Because Arknights is a goddamn NOVEL
>>543989483Green cards dum dum
Why are asians so avert to masculine males? Why do we have to get only faggy twinks and fuckbois?
>>543988990>only 10% south koreadamn
Battlepass only gives 3 fucking summons? What a waste of money...
>Get my second 5*>DupeBro
>don't reroll, cause i'm not the type of person that wastes 2+ days rerolling only to quit in a couple weeks>get Luke and Kayron day 1>get renoa day 2>finally get Magnus which was the character i wanted todayYeah i'm kinda based
>>543989512>>543989543The entire setting screams AK. Instead of a mobile super city carrier thing you're on a mobile super city space ship thing. And you're traveling around interacting with all these conveniently segregated political facitons who btw are full of men and furries. It's also got that sleek medical/sci-fi aesthetic.
How tf do you log into an account
>>543989682BP in this and hoyo games is for resources. It will speed up your progression early considerably. Once your account is set you usually don't need to touch it anymore.This one also has max rarity "weapons" (partners) though, which I've never seen, usually they're 4*
>>543989770wyell you see... AK took some of those elements from 40k and CZN borrows more in those aspects as well
Is Khalipe just bad if you try to use her as a solo carry in chaos with two supports? Feels like she really needs a saved deck to play a carry role, otherwise she's not doing anything most turns.
>>543989527Not really, and it's definitely changed from the beta.The best guess we have now is that it's influenced by: >Captain Level (possibly a hard cap?)>Save Data Memory/Chaos Size>Nightmare/Deep Trauma>Nodes/Floors Completed
>>543989840Did you use stove launcher? If so you are already logged in with stove account
>>543989770Yeap, I hope they completely drop it and go full dystopian cyberpunk + lovecraft combo. You can have casters ala Kayron, but designs like Haru should not exist again.
>>543988990Damn this game BOMBED LMAOOOOO
why is everything is this game yoinked from other gachaslops
>>>now it's AKfags claiming the game is based on theirs
fuck you game! I just wanted Khalipe!
>>543989936There's a fucking school in the Ark City. Of course there will be a school girl character.
I don't like Haru and I don't like the next banner girl either, what the fuck do I do with my crystals, just save forever?
>>543989770>nigga who only play AK say why this game have AK aesthetics
>>543989896>hoyobro the standard paid bp in zzz gives around 9 pulls along with fuckton of resources
>>543989687At least it's Gayron.
>>543989952The devs have no original idea of their own. They only made this game to ride the latest trend. That's why it's "borrowing" inspiration from HSR, Nikke, and Blue Archive.
what the fuck is this cat
>>543990009In my very first post I referenced DD and ZZZ too. Stop being a retard.
>>543988990Aren't those actually good numbers
>>543990102yeah yeah yeah, go back to vg
baker fucking the op is still getting to me>>543990015are the resources amount not pretty equal aside the pull econ? and we have the benefit of limited banners moving to the standard banner after and likely will be in the coinflip loss pool too but have to wait and see for the latter
Has smilegate already uploaded OSTs? Some of the music is breety good
>>543990102>HSR, Nikke, and Blue Archivewhat
>>543989996Ok and there is a cafe so there should be a barista as well, right, retardbro?
>>543990132metal slime
>>543990132It takes 1 damage per hit and regenerates 3 shields every turn. I assume it's a treasure goblin but I haven't killed it yet.
>>543990148paus
>>543988990>only 200k downloads>playstore shows 500kwhich one is real?
they should release some bikini armor girls
>>543989952I'm fucking fuming when I realize they copy artifact from HSR, not Genshin or ZZZ, we got to separate 2-piece and 4-piece set for maximum asinine
Well then
>>543989573This so much this we want real man
>>543989410>Character has to be a 1:1 copy with the exact same name and design to be an expyDid you miss the part where the shopkeeper is a genderbent Garo? I guess it's just a big coincidence that Kayron's designated partner with an effect tailored to him has a nonsense name like Bria that would only make sense if it were a homage to Tenebria.
>>543990148>renoa is more competent than pausyour response paus fags?>>543990352do you like the city that you live in?
>>543990341they literally yoinked the achievement ui from wuwa
do we know if pity carries between rate up banners?
What artifact set do I even get for Veronica?
Has anyone cleared Chaos 4 without Mika?
>>543989687Isn't his first dupe pretty cracked?
>>543990148YeahKeep in mind Stella Sora has been out for 5 days while this game is out for 2. We’re set to pass them easily.
>>543990352Kill faster.
>>543990341>Mihoyo tourist think Mihoyo invented this gears systemSummoner War did it first and Epic Seven copy it and then Smilegate implement it to CZN.
>>543990205>HSRThe Hoyo memory of chaos endgame, the Hoyo pull screen, the Hoyo BP, the Hoyo monthly, the Hoyo stamina system, the Hoyo artifact system.>Blue ArchiveSchoolgirl pandering and Haru's design>NikkeThe in-combat ass display, the MC's role, some character designs, the type of pandering through live 2D
>>543989341indogs are pedos who wanna rape minors because of muslim infestation
>>543990613well congrats on proving me wrong, it's still just as dogshit
>>543990613Go to memory fragments. Look at how the equipments are not helmet, armor, boots, etc but feather, goblet with %elemental dmg, flowers, straight out of Genshin. It's not copying E7 it's copying Genshin.
In what circumstances should I let neutral cards dilute my characters' deck? My Amir seems like she'd be best if I just kept her original cards.
So like Slay the Spire it's better to purposely run into Elite enemies right?
>>543989952>>543990341>>543990102You literally blink the same and breathe the same as other people ergo you shouldn't exist
>>543990934Some neutral is broken tho, Rally is busted
Best use for this currency? Duplicates or extra summons?
>>543990613>heh tourist look how much shit I slurp before youI kek'd
>>543988882is renoa good
Hoyo games created every single trope you see in gachas because they were the first gachas ever created I am very intelligent
>>543990972If you can handle them. They're really no joke.
>>543990934the aoe cards that give enemies vulnerability are a godsend
>>543991056bro we're playing a gacha game...
just pulled 2 dupes of haru in 50 pulls. shes officially my waifu
>>543991052Dupes, don't spend them on rolls you idiot
>>543990876damn hoyo invented equipments giving stats that's crazy
>>543991052nigger is this your first gacha
>>543991052you forever hoard this until EoS unironicallythis is not a jokeat some point in time you will understand whats the best option, but thats not today or anywhere close
Is stove useableWhy isn't this slop on steam
>>543991104that's what make it funny, nigga think he's above anyone
>>543990648not sure about others but>Hoyo stamina systemactually a good thing, being able to log in only 1 time a day is nice
hoyo people need to complain since HSR dropped the ball on one of their most popular characters. Sad
What the fuck is that purple stuff on her hands? Can't be blood since the game can clearly show that since this isn't a chinkge.
>>543991220damn thats a fat slob of drool on her boobs
>>543990132He's the strongest.
>>543988990>Stella Sora is filled with brownies from jakartalmeow you love to see it
>>543991220monster blood
>>543991220That's brown bro she's been digging in her butt
>>543991220looks like blood to me
>>543991132Wow look at you realizing you're wrong and trying to dumb down the argument to "stats". Go back to farming feathers and flowers in CZN like Genshin players have been doing for the last 5 years LMAO
>quest ask you to waste 720 stamina on level 3 artifact dungeon
>>543990389I guess you missed the part where it has nothing to do with Tenebria? Of all character to try arguing this, she is literally the worst one as she is, in character, literally, in character, a dumb girl playing with old gods magic that give her access to multiverse nonsense, if they wanted to use Tenebria they would not do some shit homage that resemble nothing on her.
>>543991220it's blood from the monsters most likely hardened after a lot of murder.
>>543991339it's not that bad, you are feeding those pieces on actual good gear later anyway, minor loss in total
who should i drop on the team?>Magna>Mika>Mei Lin>Selena
>>543991339Leave that mission for later, you always need to raise up your units and farm an even better save data
>dice rolls rng>epiphany rng>memory fragment rng>combatant and partner rngmight as well open a casino
>>543991325fuck you're right i forgot hoyo invented feathers and flowers
>10 rerolls>6 of them had hugo>2 of them had LukeI HATE THIS SO MUCH JUST GIVE ME TWO SEXY 5* WHORES ALREADY
>>543991502Magma and put her in a team with other shielders.
>>543991502Magna obviously, you can form 2nd with her instead
>Mihoyo invented equipment>Arknight invented storyCovid tourist ruining everything
>>543991586>>543991597thanks anontachi
>>543991550By any chance, do you know what genre of game you're playing?
mihoyo invented you, yes, mihoyo fuck your mom
>>543991052400 of this stuff is just what, 40 rolls, not worth it.
anyone still rerolling..?? guys?
>>543991601Fate invented british women btw.
Keep seething because CZN copied HSR's monetization, UI, endgame almost 1:1 lmao
AIEEEEE
>>543991601>Trickcal invented game breaking the third wallYou liking the recent Butter event my trickbro?>>543991652You can skip turns on the first Boss fight where Rin gets yeeted and skip turns on 2nd boss fight where the fag helps you kill the boss. Yes I'm still rerolling.
>>543991736>30kProbably nothing of value is lost anyway
not the mihoyo shill crashing out cause he is having bad luck in the game
>>543991652>>543991768You can also skip every story segment in the dungeon with tressa.
>>543991768>breaking the third wall
dont care, game is fun
>>543990148Those are not bad numbers.
If they wanted to pander to furries why is Hugo the only furry male? We need like 5 more.
>Do Haru's TrialDamn that was fun now I'm even salter I lost the 50/50>>543990536>>543990030It looks like the first one is nutty yeah. Shin-ichiro Miki is doing some heavy ass lifting though.
>>543991768She got a gun
I don't really get what's the difference here. Do I just run on the one I unlocked the latest?
>>543989115>>543989084Devs need to give more freebies.. NOW!
What is a Buff card... does it mean Upgrade? goddamn
>>543992024
when do the chaos zone reward passes reset is it weekly?
>>543992024You run on all of them until you get the clear reward of the lvs, then you do it on the latest one.
>>543989115I feel like it's established you don't keep any neutral and monster cards in other modes. Are people that dumb?
which one is good for Magna?
Is there any other way to refill the counseling tickets in trauma center (than using crystals)?
>YOU HAVE TO SEETHE JUST LIKE ME !!!go back and stop shitting the thread retard
>>543992024If you click on the bottom left each has their own monsters and equipments.the size difference is just how many floors you have to clear
>>543991052>khalipe not aquired
>>543992165It uses the same currency as hangout. Just wait until tomorrow it will refresh.
>>543992165it's a daily reset thingWhat's a good team for Magna? Is she capable of being a DPS and if not, can you run her with any dps/mika/nia/Magna?
>>543991379>I guess you missed the part where it has nothing to do with Tenebria?Outside of, you know, having half her name and being attached to the one other E7 expy in the game. But maybe you're right, Tenebria soon, 2 more weeks trust the plan
>>5439921421st
rerolling is for suckers
best use for this during runs?
>>543992392Removing cards.
>>543992392remove card
>>543990148>Aren't those actually good numbersNo. ZZZ made 100M in its first month and that was mobile only, so like 3 mil a day.CZN only managed 500k after 3 days.
>>543992392Shop, delete useless cards
>>543992356>dupes
>>543992430>>543992440>>543992454arigataki
>>543992445hoyo probably spent more money on marketing ZZZ than the entirety of this games development costs
how many days do we have to deal with the mihomo until they leave
>>543992238>>543992245Thanks. I finished a run with Khalipe/Magna/Mika earlier. The team was pretty solid - they survived even though they got stressed 10+ times. Magna with her counterattack took care of chip damage.
Anyone tried to pressure the devs to drop the roll cost to 100? I'm not gonna buy a gay 18 roll monthly pass especially when it's a 70 roll pity.
The gameplay element looks so detached from the rest of the game. It's wild how good the gameplay actually is, even the small bits like when you drag cards fast enough it just chains the animations together
if a game like counterside can survive, i don't see how this game can't.
>>543992638until early November, the monthly chart hasn't been released
>>543992445Retard. zzz still has unironic eous soon posters despite that but in the bubble of a self published game yes CZN is doing good despite it having next to no marketing and the state of translations and everything else
I WISH I HAVE MEI LINFUCK
>>543991191>Why isn't this slop on steamNot enough people have demanded it, but I'm one of them. Fuck that shitty stove launcher
okay, so I never fuckign run renoa as my main dps in chaos runs right? She needs to piggy back off another strong dps because if you don't get her epiphanies she kneels over and slobber on monster cock because she have no ammo and takes 3 turns to do 300 damage or something
>level 30>only Magna dupes
>>543992753Hoyo fags are legitimately mentally ill and will call eos soon for any game that isn’t top 5 why I moved to the other /zzz/ in the first place since sales nigger faggotry is all they care about in this site
>>543992245>What's a good team for Magna?shes ap hungry so mika is surgically attached to herthird slot can be whatever you want
>>543992846what team are you using? Renoa Mika Rei is very powerful as long as you are picking the right upgrades
>>543992741Yeah its pretty surprising.Usually gachas are inferior to real games of the same genre, but the gameplay here is so good it stands on its own.This game would have instantly flopped if that were the case, the gameplay has no good feeling as good as it does.
>>543991898Bait them into the game, like with Lycaon in ZZZ
Stella Sora did a devs listened, sent out an in-game mail, and gave everyone 10 rolls. Where is our devs listened? Implement a sweep. Explain EXACTLY how the data cap works. And give us 10 rolls.
1 10 pull a month f2p is pretty grim
post it
>>543992981this game gives more rolls just for leveling than stella sora has in their game
whats the point in paypigging in thsi game
what the fuck is this
you just know theirs gonna be immune bosses at higher level content, tressa is kinda TOO good
>>543992953Only reason anyone stomachs wiz Daph since it’s best blobber drpg on the market that seeing the shit I read for EO and Mary skelter having 10x less effort put into them is baffling and it somehow is top 15 on JP iOS App Store and even beating ZZZ at 11 but I’m more confused on why the fuck nips are playing an action game on mobile.
Anything worth rushing?
>basic added back init's over bros
>>543992846Yeap, she is extremely reliant on her special cards, so unless you feed her epiphanies early she bricks, but when you do get her deck she pops off VIOLENTLY.
has anyone here taken curse cards? any reason to actually take them? also did i miss something? what's morale? i thought it was related to reducing stress but i guess not?
>>543993050cthulu vagina rare event
>>543993043>day 4>/czn/ already copingGOD HELP US
just buy/pirate slay the spire and watch porn on a second monitor you dumb gooners
is there a tier list?
>>54399298110 rolls is nothing in the long run. Drop roll cost to 100 and make monthly pass 100 per day so it makes sense to buy the monthly pass. They really think I'm gonna buy a half a roll per day pass for $5??What are these niggers thinking?
>>543992934>>543993154Renoa Mika Rei, yeah. Mika keeps pumping out AP that no one can use and Rei doesn't do enough to help cover for Renoa when she's dry. Renoa pops off with the right cards if she gets it early but it's shaky until then.I've actually had more luck pairing beryl with renoa because she can hit hard during renoa's downtime
How do I Beryl? Her kit isn't clicking with me.
>>543993187Bro it's ok. I'm not one to see devs double currency on release and take the fucking, but you do you.
>>543993161>curse cardsYou only get them as drawback for the giant boon they give like in >>543993050 which lets you copy a card but gives you schizophrenia in exchange for>moraleJust dmg%+>reducing stressOnly real methods are camps and epiphanies on some cards such as Mika’s heal being -2 but that’s a massive nothing burger and the other various methods are usually from (?) nodes in chaos through events
>>543992968Yeah pretty sure Hugo only exists to bait the Lycaon fanbase, but at least they also had Ben Bigger. Meanwhile Hugo is literally alone, the rest are 3* partners.
does exhaust mean the card won't come back in that fight
>>543993050Got a rare event earlier
>>543993354They should’ve given him a cigar man I don’t mind lycaon either but he knotted me trying to get Lucia but I’d be fine with Hugo here since I do want to play with Tressa
>>543993286Replace Mika with Nia.
should i just full on go story mode or use all my 4 entires first for chaos during the day
Shit Owen can fuck any girl he wants with how much work he puts in, god damn.
how do I beat chaos 3 guys..
>>543993043TBF CZN has some of the worst pull %s in the industry. Both games have dogshit gacha in their own right.
>>543993387Yes, it won't be reshuffled back into the deck
>>543993464roll 3* character
>>543993287Get her free attack card and her free tutor. Clear mobs with other stuff then on the boss map oneshot it.
>>543993086They will release bosses that will do a special attack if they reach a certain amount of debuffs placed on them.Thats usually how it works. They have to implement gimmicks that people have to work around so everyone has an excuse to roll for certain characters or do more chaos runs to get a deck that can deal with the mechanic.This game has a looming issue that you can potentially make a save data that is TOO GOOD and it loops around dealing infinite damage which will trivialize anything unless they put stopgaps against it. Which is very difficult to predict since theres a fuckton of permutations involved when you have to take into account multiple characters interacting with other characters and each character having their own set of epiphany combinations and the number of characters will only keep growing and growing.They will fuck up at some point thats a given.
>>543992115weekly or 60 stam to refill one ticket
im never using males
>>543992024Different weak elementsDifferent bosses/enemies/eventDifferent gear you can findDifferent unlocks to getAlso I think the later one are longers and therefore harder as you risk to actually mindbreak to the point of bricking
>>543993398You can expand the top left icon, I think the purple means it's like epic rarity, treasure trove is pretty common compared to some of the mythical item rare events.
i lost my god run to the boss that summons invincible ghouls that rape you with multiple attacks per turn for your entire hp barwtf do you do against that nigga
It's over I'm bricked
>>543993602You wait for a competent card gamer to actually touch the game and do a breakdown of what to do after all the bandwagoning CCs kill themselves and move to DNA
>>543993445I unironically can't figure out how to play her
>>543993602your Khalipe?
>>543993697Which one bros?
>>543993742She, like Renoa, gets better as you go through the run, the whole point is to play around discarding Renoa's bullets to trigger the extra attack. At the late stages of a run, where you can easily get ~7+ bullets in the deck, you use Nia's Ego Skill, and Renoa just fucking goes ballistic.
>>543993809I'm playing with the L bros and all these nigger mobs get extra actions which is awful for spamming a million 0 cost bullet cards
>>543993838I see more combatants=better bonus for your administration.
so if a monster hits 0 during my card spamming turn, they will not attack the next turn?
anyone else find it unintuitive that purple denotes higher rarity than gold in this gameis that some weird krshit?
>>543993896You run it back and hope you don’t see a run ending mob like that one that’s just how the genre goes
>>543990004yes and enjoy playing the roguelike
The rolls are pretty gay desu and they expect you to do 6 dupes.They're not genshit so they shouldn't expect to bait enough retards into maxing out their credit cards. Would be nice if they understood that and make monthly pass 30 rolls instead of 18.Probably gonna migrate to DNA when it releases and see what happens to this game in 6 months. Hopefully it EOS so some private server chad can do his thing.
>>543993981yes, unless they have effects that give them extra actions (i think its called rapid speed)
the 4 stars are really good and might be actually better once you max dupe them compared to a base 5 star.
>>543993980Fuck it I rawdog this shit
>>543993994that is yellow not gold. and that is not purple either, more like a mixed of many color
>>543994001It’s that or you see br*wn which id rather have the silver gold purple which is better on the eyes>>543994069>2 free dupes worth 40 rolls each permanently available >event with guaranteed dupe selector >limited banner combatants move to standard after banner endsEh it’s fine really >holo foil system to help waifu fags enjoy their favorite combatant
>>543994143Here's the problem. They're as hard to get as the 5 stars. Look at the rates..
I feel tricked. Thought we'd see some really good ryona and guro action. Instead we had a girl get mildly squeezed and she walked it off. At best you get mindbreak art which is honestly mostly just horny.
I have an account with one very solid team of two 5*s that work together and another account with several good 5*s but they don't work together at all. I've heard that you're going to want different mono element teams later on?
>Renoa dupesurely i didn't brick right?
Why can't I bring my saved data to Chaos Simulation?
>>543994217Ehh not really, I already have Mika and Rei at dupe 4.
>>543994219Well yeah the devs already told the game is not gonna be dark or anything like that
>>543994209Meant for >>543993994
>>543993994it was weird for a few days, yes. im over it now
>>5439941434 star means so little right now with how strong they are
>>543989990Im still rerolling for her. I feel you bro.
>>543994219deep trauma mode has some pretty gorey deaths depending on what elite/boss kills you. i'd say also keep in mind the game just started, so probably not too much actual animated cutscenes
>>543992846I ran Mika/Rei/Renoa in chaos 3 and it worked out great
>>543994219chapter 3 final boss was pretty gorey.
>>543994318Wasn;t that just for the launch to test the waters? I'd be criminal in this kind of game and setting to not go full ryona/edgekino. Especially when E7 has many brutal moments and it's not even it's shtick.
Beryl actually hits like a fucking truck with right epiphany.
Anyone know what the left option gets you?
>>543994348>>543989990I got exactly one khalipe and nothing else. Literally a monkeys paw shit I got. Just her and some other 4 stard.
>>543990829Concession accepted retard mehomoslurper. Now kill yourself.
IFUCKINGHATERANDOM STATS
what does locking your save data do
Alright fine I'll actually try her out.
>>543994436They told the story isnt gonna be as dark as the prologue and what we get for now i doubt they could get away with ryona anyway
>>543994360>>543994412Can you post them? I didn't job hard enough to see my units die.
How do you clear Chaos 3 without Mika?
>>543994545stops you from bulk deleting it
>>543994286At least it wasn't Veronica dupe followed by Luke at next pity...haha....
is the sleepy nun any good
we can already send depressed operators on mission, they need to add a system to drug them, abuse them, imprison them
>Imagine having a panic attack after seeing a single zombie>Imagine needing counseling and snacks to recover from just 1 mission>Imagine going through trauma each time you reincarnateThis post was brought to (You) by Mythag University.
bwos... i want to play haru and rin in the tower... they both want mika! im going to abandon rin
>>543994603you take her anyways and go deep trauma like you should be in the first place
>>543994603You can still do runs even with her there just only DT runs which you should be running only anyways for better data
>>543994603Magna
>>543994467and that's exactly what I want, if I get a dupe of her on the 50 pull later is profit!
is Haru's partner worth it?
>>543994318I literally don't get the point of going with this setting if they're not going to commit.
>got 3 opening found dupes>save data >game changed one of them to basic cardsI'm so fucking mad..
you always go for epiphany in events and then try to buy equipment or from random drops, right?
>>543994656Rin nia/cass Amir should be fine still
>>543994719>>543994318they said the trauma codes is where all the dark shit will be in later updatesim pretty sure
>>543994654TBF everyone needs snacks
Well anon.Are you actually making good decks? or are you a deckbuilder tourist?
>>543994728its just like those sketchy chinese playstation memory cards... k-kino
>>543994719Gacha games usually just throw a bunch of concepts for their games, don't expect much
>>543994748i think maxing out combat encounters is better for getting more epiphany rolls, plus it prevents you from getting cucked by a forced epiphany evo upgrade that you don't get to pick which happens occasionally from events
>>543994654Fuck it. Im taking the Morimens pill. whats your game like shillfag?
>>543994748Yes, until you get your deck combos rolling, Epiphanies>>> Equipment from my experience. Still, some, like weapons for your main DPS are almost mandatory it seems, but depends on your composition.
>>543994801Holy fuck it's even worse. It had a -1 ap mod and they got rid of it.FUCKING NIGGER GAME.
>>543988882do saved decks not work in Chaos? where do they work
look at this cute renoa
>>543994712Assuming you're f2p then no. Just buy her in the shop if you want to main Haru, assuming nothing you want more comes out by the time you got the 300 that is.
>>543994903Everywhere outside Chaos
>>543994903In anything that's not chaos
>>543994790i beat my boyfriend like this
>>543994903Weekly bosses, not hsr moc/not zzz “endgame” mode, and farming stages
>>543994934So you build deck on Chaos, then use them for everything else?
>>543994903everywhere that isnt chaos aka the place you built it
oh baby
>>543994712You shouldn't be pulling for any partner right now.You don't need it and you have no idea what is coming down the line.
>>543994982you got it, boss
I need stockholm syndrome robot maid right now though
BACK TO THE FUCKING MINES!
>>543994286her second dupe is good. no brick here.
Hi guys, what character should I reroll for?
STOP CRYING
>>543994467I wish I were you. Im only playing for her. Also the combat is fun but still.
renoa stonks
>>543994654ok but you don't have goonerslop designs, so i won't even try your game even if it was 10x better
>>543995245that's cute
bwos.. are (You) still rerolling... theres no way, right? im being fooled, arent i
THE FUCK DOES THIS MEAN
>>543995175Nvm I just read the OP, sorry
>>543995208*rapes
Uhhhh bwos??https://arca.live/b/chaoszeronightmare/151635527?p=1
How do I beat Soul Collector..
>>543995175Khalipe, Mei Lin or Kayron
>>543995301You have a 1% to get a 5 character don't waste your time and just play the game dude
>>543995404Aint clicking that.
>>543995404i can't read gook
>>543995301maybe people are only starting now and lied that they're rerolling from day 1 to not be outed as newfags and latelets
>>543995440i just got raped by him too
>>543995383after mindbreak recovery, its cheaper to use?
Rei prequel manhwa while she was with space pirates announced!
>>543995383if you heal the cost goes down i think
>>543994540play stella sora!
>>543995301YES I AM!
>>543995457it's not a bad chance if you're rerolling 40 hits every 15 minutes.
>>543995589basedhope you get your 4x waifu godroll account
>>543995589Good luck bwo
wow maribel is great>see enemy about to chunk me>use her cheap as fuck ult and now the shields break even with the damage>good ish damage, some aoe, great with Mei for breaks>countersis khalipe even more busted for this playstyle?
>Character is useless without dups
>>543995589why not just use an emulator and do like 8x rerolls at once?
>>543995301
>>543995463>>543995512its just a god rei build losing every neutral card they had
>>543995589bwo... its time to stop
>bluestacks keeps crashing>stove doesn't work because it relies on random edge programAll they had to do was release this shit on steam.
isn't this retardedly strong?
>>543995457>Game is propped up by character variety>The knowledge we could be playing for years and still never get the release 5-stars because the % is so utterly dog shit
>>543995849holy autismGOD
>>543995939>>The knowledge we could be playing for years and still never get the release 5-stars because the % is so utterly dog shitYou get to select a character at 300 pulls on standard bozo
what even are your reroll targetsI hit renoa from the 40 free rolls and then maxed the beginner pity for Mei and I'm more than happy enough
>>543995937>80% attack and heal for 1 apnot at all
>Saw a 50k TB save data earlier>Normal mode, chaos 4 because of gear>Try it>Literally only got 30~32k TB instead>10k less than deep trauma difficulty 4Am I missing something?
>>543995987IM GOING FUKING INSANEE
>>543995935Stove is owned by the publisher so of course they will use their janky launcher.
>>543996131your luck stat? not maxed i'm assuming
>>543996131idk man i got a 44k from an unfinished chaos 3 run where i died on the 2nd boss
>>543996057Khalipe, only her! It's not even for meta purposes, her design is the only reason I downloaded this I want to start the game with her!
bros anyone know if the 300 pulls selector on standard is a one time thing?
>>543996168It's owari...
>>543996131bwo, you didnt unlock captain potential?
>>543996131I don't know how it's calculated or if it even matters. It's not really an indication of deck quality anyway.
>>543994219if you die to the chaos 4 boss their entire upper torso gets removed and their spines are seen in a silhouette
>>543996224It’s one time only
>tfw you figure out the strongest comp you can make and it's Khalipe Nia CassiusThis shit is actually broken
If you wanna use real money in the game, is the stuff cheaper in the PC version or the Google play?
This damn Stove launcher is gonna be my reason for quitting the game, the game was running fine until yeterday it keep saying running without launching the damn game.
>>543995937You only choose this if you want this card to show up in the first turn/shuffle that's the meaning of [outbreak of war]
wait a minute. you're sayin that the cards you keep are rng for save data? i didn't know that. I thought only generic and monster cards didn't get added
>>543995781Nah Maribel seems the shield stack queen.
oh man what the fuck really?
>>543996002>First pity is furry>Every random pity after that is the fucking furryY-yea I'll have them no t-time...
does haru have a premium team? only using her with mika and cassius right now
Grim
>>543996325thanks bro. that kinda sucks tho...
Still no Nia, Cassius or Maribell after 120 rolls. Give me a 4* star selector pls
>>543996347>photo shopped a different dick over his ownL M A O
oh no no no, it's over for the thread....
>>543996371It's not RNG, there's a cap based on your difficulty and whether you're in nightmare or not, and the priority for editing your deck if your deck is too good is like:>Re-add basics>Remove Monster Cards>Remove Neutral Epiphanies>Remove Copies>Remove Divine Epiphanies
whys the dick suffocating
Is this anything like slay the spire?
>>543996334>vpn to japan>rake yapanese stovo accounto>receive twendy percento discountoo
suddenly... cock
How's your hoard coming along?
>>543996363Can't believe gooks are worse than japs at coding shit.This shit has been out for how many years? Like just put all your shit in steam already they charge like what $100 to publish there.
how come we get dick pick but stella sora don't?
>>543996670indogs only have smol peckers
>>543996670nobody is playing stella sora
>>543996347Tressabros... how do we recover from this slander?
>>543996615It's EVERYTHING like Slay the Spire and more.Down to same enemy encounters with different names.
>>5439966399400 jim and 20 blue anchor
>>5439966390, i'm impulseGOD i will roll when i can do 10 pull, if i don't get character i want i will delete my account and start over
Someone check his timezone from that filename
>>543996551What the actual fuck, it's true, and he didn't even choose a nice dick either lol
>>543996615It's like Slay the Spire, but if you got to take your deck and artifacts at the end of a run and use them in other gamemodes, with runs on higher ascension letting you get more modifications to your deck.
>>543996551>it's reali'm about to say nice cock too
Would this be a retarded idea?
Why doesn't save data have transparency?
should i keep this or nah?
>>543996912Not really
>>543996639who is after haru?
I better get a 100 roll for them getting rid of my exodia save datas.
>>543996912nah. they merge and dismantle at same rate
>>543996912it's the same ratio for both merging and dismantle, you only lose small drop of gold
>>543996912You can farm unlimited money in choas mode and the exchange rate of mats is the same in reverse so no.
>>543988882>832 / 207 / 8 /czn/ - Chaos Zero Nightmare GeneralRETARD LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO
Wait why are they golden now?
>>543996762>>543996874Jesus Christ, I'm fucking in then, I'll be rerolling the shit out of this gameI bet they'll eventually copy stuff from slay the spire 2 when it releases
>>543996403Lmao I feel like some war vet suffering from ptsd once memo frags got unlocked.
>>543996956It's insane. I think all monster attacks are insane.
>>543996956weaken is good idk what impair does
>Retarded OP>Retarded anons>Retarded dickpostHow did we get to this in just 3 days?
>>543996956Anon impair alone is enough to keep that card
>>543996962>>543996990>>543997003>>543997017Thanks bros
>halfway through chaos 2nd floor eats shitgod does this happen to anyone else?
>>543996979apparently Yuki
>>543997061A grade policy
REEEEEEEEEE
>>543996956doesn't weaken make it so enemies do less damage to you? why wouldn't you?
Hello bros, I have a genuine question to ask.Picrel is my current roster.I started the game yesterday, rerolled around 4 times to get Rin and managed to pull Haru with 1 multi on her banner.(felt good)So I was enjoying the game so far but for some reason I can't win against "Bercula" the intermediate level up boss since I have no good AoE character(other than Haru I guess)... Managed to hit pity on the standard banner thanks to the gibs but got Luke and he's not gonna help me against him...So my question is, should I reroll? or keep this account and power through the boss? (I generally manage to down him to 400hp before getting nuked) I saw an anon yesterday having issues with that boss and someone told him to use Tessa since DoT seems to be broken should I do that?
>>543997093Welcome bro.
>>543997231Stay strong bwo!
>>543994161>>543993838Yeah that's better, I don't see any way to farm those universal items
at this rate i might share my dick after seeing Amir's ass for the millionth time
>>543995440the gimmick is you need to avoid letting his action counter get to 0 during your turn, because he will get an extra action followup that is super enhanced. if you end the turn manually before he hits 0 and force him to use his ability normally he wont get the followup.
>game takes couple of things from StS>non zero chance a dps with this bitch skillset gets added and she will be tier 0 for months if not yearsi want to see this happens>>543996615yes, even some of the elites are 1:1 to StS elites mechanic wise (very easy to find this game's gremlin nob and sentries) but still tries many new things so not a lazy copypaste jobhowever unlike StS, mobs can attack on your turn after certain number of cards used which is why the chrono ark mention
I didn't think rerolling for a specific standard would be this hard. It's fucking over.
why does the PC client utterly refuse to start most of the time, shit's awful
>>543997237i just started yesterday.
>>543997480LMAO GET STOVE'D
Asking again cause I got contradictory answers? Am I supposed to use these for more stamina as needed or save them for later?
>>543994456No one does, it's a brick piece of equipment
>>543997480launcher is so dogshit it's made me legitimately consider maining this game on ldplayer instead.
>>543997393GYAT
>>543997480I switched my DNS when I had problems with stove launcher
>>543997541Just use themunless you are really close to hitting promotions
>>543997541Use them once you run out of missions (should be mid 20s) and use crystals for stamina too, this should let you hit level 30 day 1 or early day 2.
I've been playing for 3 days. I got 2 five-stars on the baby banner, but frankly I just wonder if it's more worth it to reset to bait out Haru so I can save pulls for the next banner
I really like the bad endings in trauma stories.
Is it a brick to do this at level 30-something?
>no nia >6th mikaleast ill get m6 nia soon haha...
>>543997318YesShe can cheese the boss and ignore its mechanica with DoT
>>543997398Thanks for the motivation to pull through it
>>543997615>>543997653Awesome thanks
>>543997541Like the others said, use them to help you get access to the higher level shit quicker.
>>543997231You won with top right though???
>>543997656Just make a new account and reroll there when level gated on your main one?I wouldn't delete a 3 day old account now.
>boss is a hard counter to the lowest tier SSR dps in the entire gameWhat did they mean by this?
>>543997680Not reallyYou want some of the gear for deep trauma runsJust don't upgrade them though
Please be a counter attacker
>>543997318I don't think your progress can really ever get bricked. Tressa + Rei + Mika is really strong and everyone gets them. So that's your worst case scenario, and you should reroll what you want if you want to do that.
>>543995404>>543995858>gooks are farming god saves early on tooHumans aren't so different
>>543997656well you're already considering it so might as well do it on the side
>>543997680As long as it's the level 4 one you're good.
What did she mean by that?
>>543997808if you mean rin ive killed him in DT3 Chaos 3
>>543997541Think about it anon, this is the game where contents locked behind level, so what do you think the best thing to do?
>>543996956okay, what is resolve or morale?
>>543997875>chunlii am saving for Raiden Wei
>>543997927i mean luke
>>543997913She's going to get the space pirate treatment.
>>543997948Resolve gives you shieldMorale gives damage boost
>sweat my balls of for a close as fuck win on the chaos 3 blue pot crab>alright I can keep this save surely, it's going so well->run continuesoh fuck oh god
>>543997948Anon hold the card see it full description
why are we called Protossgookdevs play too much Starcraft
holy shit koreans are EXTREMELY mentally ill
Orlea is so trash. What kind of support needs multiple turns, bazillion AP and ego points, only to be useless and eat up card space? I wish I could refund this bitch.
>>543997913We Yuri slop?
>>543997948you do realize you can just read what it says at the bottom so you don't have to ask again right
>>543997769My sweet child. Do you really think that is enough?
>>543997948Morale is +20% damage per stack.
Does 50/50 guarantee carry over?
>>543998070It mean the first/the one/1stIt sound cooler in hangul
>>543998060Jej
>>543998083Koreans love NTR but have more sex than the Japanese. make it make sense
>>543998060You can leave and keep the save. Or if you die, you'll still keep the save. You might have to do counseling in the trauma unit later but it won't disappear.
>Wake up>Remember own cuck mc>laugh>Boot up wuwaFeels good to be wuwachad
>>543989968We don't claim that retard. Probably a falseflagger with how retarded his point was. It's like calling this game limbus copy cause it has body horror abnormalities and sanity system.
>>543997696>>543997879I see, thanks anons.
>agony can kill>but enemy has shield>auto end turn without spending a single AP
this game sucks
What are the odds of partners being eventually playable characters?
>>543998223>MoreLol no. Both countries are suffering with the lack of newborns lmaoYou just don't see it because media in Korea in general is strict and heavily controlled
>>543997875when is she coming out
>>543998223>but have more sex than the Japanese.Not according to birth rates
>>543998392nov 12 i think
>>543998083Don't hate on them, a gook just want to be cucked
>>543998083Bro what are they seeing that we aren't seeing. Not a single line of dialogue I've seen showed Owen as anything more than a boytoy.
>>543998356probably 0
>>543998083No matter what they tell you, never believe Koreans who say they hate NTR. Koreans are some of the biggest consumers of NTR because it's the only thing that can make their bug hearts feel emotion, and their tiny dicks hard, so you can just treat these schizos as closeted NTR fetishists. Just think about it, of all men in this game, including the feral Hugo, they chose to NTRpost with Owen who's so feminine-looking he's almost a femboy.
>>543998508okay but dorontabi doesnt like ntr and he was a korean larping as a nippon for 3-5 years on xitter
>>543997017It makes me wonder why hoyo and gacha games that copy their gameplay systems bother with gold/credits/coins/etc. at all when they shower players with them
>>543998508But anon I don't even know any Koreans
>>543998572>need to grind 4mil dennies for seed in zzztheres a cap to grinding dennies in zzz unlike here with coins and chaos plus leveling passives are just 1 off vs hoyoges some buffing only basic cards so no stress really
Renoa NTR
is haru good?
>Protag NTRs girls off other dudesWould you be okay with this?
REROLL GODS WW@
Anyone know how to fix this?
>>543998813Renoa almost got NTRed
>>543998060That’s the good part. Chaos 3 gives you better saves exactly because it has a 2nd floor
>>543998847Protags in gachas are so redundant
NTR Owen from other girls
>>543998223Korea is the only country that beat Japan in declining birthrate and suicides rate.
Partners should've been pokemon-like creatures instead of just another layer of waifus a.k.a wasted good designs on glorified weapon banner
theres no pornits over
>>543998508>he has a hair extensionOk he looks a little fruity now that I noticed that, what the hell
>>543998827Great nuker but you need either Cassius or Khalipe for her to shine.
>>543997541save them for golden artifacts
>>543999038the fuck is a hair extension
>>543998223Absolutely not. Japan is actually recovering. SKorea is dying really fast. Japan is at 1.2 right now which is like most western countries.
dead
>>543999020True
>>543998847thats rance bwo
>Owen cucks you from Renoa
>>543999074Huh? I feel like she's good with Mika and Owen/Rei
>nun again
any blatant use of ai for the art in this game? post em
>had a reroll with e2 renoawell that was interesting
>>543999243The neutral gun card
>>543999243I noticed an NPC titty monster who looked sus
>>543999243Sorry no 2 right arms so far.
>you don't have to do the highest chaos rift, the lower ones also get increased data cap as you increase your acc level/difficultyOH SHITThis is gonna do wonders for varietyAlso if you're getting fucked by the swamp it might be worth trying the other chaos rifts at difficulty 4
>>543998508>their tiny dicks hardI thought that hand gesture thing is just meme then I saw Iphone new ads, even Apple don't want to offend Korean biggest insecurity.
>>543999129I dunno what to call this thing
How many copies of 1 card are you able to keep after completing a chaos run?
>>543999025There is literally one porn of Hugo, that's it.
Magna's deck is just full of upgrade cards after epiphanies
Nice
>>543998083>I tought Renoa was unattractiveFucking faggots
>>543999379
do dupes provide big boosts or are they just stat increases
>>543998098They need to especially buff the creature that gives damage bonus. I have no idea how you even build around it. It's too slow and costs too much AP.
>>543999318Look at the map size, people choose chaos 3 or 4 because more encounters=more upgrades
>hardmode>all enemy are just bazillions shield spammers stalling you out of turn limit
So Khalipe is the biggest honeypot in the game? Why did everyone hype her up in the beginning
>>543999468theyre pretty mediocre with what im looking at
>>543999578Because if you treat Chaos as the main mode then yes she's the best character. She's a complete beast in Chaos 2. Absolute bug slayer. But put her in MoC and she turns into Gepard.
>>543997231aiming for Haru is pretty painful ngl, now I'm just trying to do Khalipe + Veronica or Mei Lin
>>543999546Ooohhh, that's what map size is then. Thank you.
>>543999578She's still good, what are you disappointed about
>>543999580Holy shit fuck this boss man>Summon ghoul>Everyone but 1 ghoul is invincible>If you spam actions, the ghouls have infinite actions>AOE that carried you here is basically useless
what element is chaos 3
>won the coinflipSo what’s my second team bwos
>>543999630
getting 3 ssr in haru banner but 2 of them are males...
This thing would be so good on my Triss
>want to beat chaos 1 diff 3>no fire dpsNooooo i dont want to level Owen
>>543999770very deformed dick
>>543998379>>543998414>>543999018>>543999151Damn i could of sworn it was the case, but i do know Korea is a terrible place for a lot of people that live there
>>543999748>>543999580Bro your Owen...? He tore through ghouls like they're paper.
So past thread people kept saying removing cards is good. Can someone explain to me why?
>/czn/>Cock Zero Nightmare
stop posting your dicks niggers, post vaginas
are any of the packs worth buying
>>543999848Only the elite (chaebols) gets to keep the women as their personal petsThe rest only gets to watch them on tv and livestreams
>>543999894dicks are unfortunately more aesthetically pleasing than vaginas. Women are hot when they have great tits and ass and hips, but not their vaginas
>>543999882Because you have more possibilities of getting your good cards?
>>543999882removing cards that you know will never use like shields/heal on dps and attacks on supports
>>543999882>Remove shitty attack card from healer>You get better chance of getting your +1 ap heal card from the deck
>>543999578She has unmatched AOE and gives a lot of shields while doing it, but that takes setup and she isn't sustained DPS. Treat her like a sub-DPS shielder instead of a carry and use an actual damage dealer in your team.
>>543999770Nice veins but sadly cut. Would look better uncut. Length is average. 7/10.
>>543999882Less bad cards = more good cards
>>543999748>he got collector'dKek rip
>>543999882haven't even started playing, but if you think for a second you will arrive at the conclusion that it thins out your deck so you get better cards more consistently.
PLAYABLE WHEN??!!
>>543999976wrong, vaginas have tier lists, outies are very common
>>543999848It's very close to be a dystopian nightmareThere's a reason why they produce only post-apocalypse stories and are obsessed with NTRIt also has the craziest feminists on the planet, so that doesn't help and greatly increases the distance between women and men, even more than here in the West
>>544000040why are you still rerollingweekly reset is in like a day
>>543999962the daily
>>543999880What makes Owen's AOE different? Does the boss not resist fire AOE?
>>543999976Both suck, you need the whole package, looking at just genitals is weird
WHY AM I SEEING DICKS IN THIS THREAD?
>>543999980>>543999991>>544000000>>544000032>>544000040Thanks bros
>>544000054country mandated seia gfs would prevent korea eous but this is not a perfect world
>>544000054I'm surprised there hasn't been a rape epidemic there, it's like the only solution for both incels and femcels there
does exhaust mean you can only you use the card once a game?
>>543999318swamp is considered the hardest right now? if anything its blue pot in nightmare that fucks me up every single time somehowi first cleared chaos 2/3/4 lv 30-40 in nightmare but in blue pot even the mobs feels like elites in second half while i still have to deal with beryl and haru taking turns mindraped
>>544000000checked
>>544000000nice
>>543999801So you can sacrifice 60% health to bring it down to 7, and you get all the health back if you won the dice roll
how do I get unique cards?
>>544000000faggotshitecardgamen
>>544000172Once a fight, what you're describing is Remove
>>544000172i think it just means you can't use that card again during that battle. it pops up again next fight
>>544000159Oh shit did the devs release a sticker pack
>>544000112He's fire (passion) yes. Once you get rid of the ghouls (very easy if you build him correctly) the necromancer is a dead meatsack.
>>543999770amirfags are like this?
This has to be a mistranslation right? It should be when an enemy is defeated because you get teamwiped the moment your HP is 0.
>>544000190It depends on your team quite a bit for mine swamp is hard af
Why are they releasing 2 attackers back to back? I need more supports not attackers.
STOOOOPPP MAGNA PLEASE
>>544000112boss is weak to fire... fire attacks do double damage
>>544000393Probably means mindbreak, go submit an inquiry
>>544000000WASTED
>>544000443>element advantage deals double damageGod I wish, Chaos 4 would be so easy with Luke + Amir
>>544000431YOU WILL COUNTER AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!
Who are the most fun characters to play?So far for me it's Renoa but i didn't get to try most of them.
>>544000692For me it's Hugo Tressa
>>544000692Renoa for me as well
why do the characters' mouth not moving when they talk?
>>544000692Haru is pretty fun
are there no thorns characters?
>>544000692For me it's Nia + Cassius because I can draw infinitely
Don't forget to enable that schizo mode
>>544000714>Hugo TressaWhat's the synergy here? Hugos thing only works with skills and upgrades and Tresaa spams attacks
is it okay to take on good neutral cards if im trying to upgrade my existing cards?
>>544000692I find Tress really fun. Very flexible and she can buff your other units with agony stacksRenoa too until I need to use her animated cutscene card
>>544000824schizo mode unironically makes things too hard...
I'm thinking I should've rerolled
>>544000692I'm having fun with this team, a lot. I had Renoa but she feels like super late game material or requires some specific combination of characters.
>>544000896Post roster
what are Renoa's bnb epiphanies?upgrade the dirge shot to spam 3 ammo and the discard rose?
For me its the animal girls trio
>>544000846Every time Tressa uses her spawn dagger "skill", Hugo gains follow up attack charge. Upgrade and replicate a bunch of these, add Mika or Nia into the mix, and you'd be throwing cards nonstop while Hugo wrecks everyone with his insane FuA damage. It's basically StS shiv on steroids.
>>544000000>thread so focused on gaemplay that nobody noticed the get
>>544000558I do like it but it's not like her 2nd dupe gives her more firepower in all situations or give more counterattack stacks. It just makes her do more AOE which is nice but there's literally a skill that does that
>>544001023Oh shit I seeThat does sound pretty fun Shivs we're my favorite playstyle in StS
>>544001089it had 4 replies before yours pointing it out dumbass
>>544000692Tressa hits the shiv spam sweetspot for me.
>>544000692Beryl! She actually competes with my main dps.
>SS Orca
>>544001165>4litterally nothing for a big get
>>544000958I'll just keep going and deal with it
>>544000934wtf you are me. Feels good to just let Haru smack shit while Veronica and mika pump cards and ap.
Does Hugo Tressa Nia work? Mika is occupied at the moment.
Which one is better, god epiphany or remove 3 cards?
buy research notes or policies from nonos shop?
>>544001289>HaruI've been playing the game too long, can't even remember the red haired girls name..
>>544001349Yes, Nia works.
>>544001363i always go with epiphany
>>544001240Wtf why is /akg/ here this game has NOTHING in common with Arknights
>>543999342I got 3 cards of the same type but I'm only on diff 4 so maybe you can get more later.
>>544000159HOLY SHIT THIS IS CRAZY I’M DRAWING EVERYTHING RIGHT
>>544001363Depends on a lot I'd generally say God epiphany especially in longer rifts
>Heals less>Gimmick needs 5 stacks compared to Mika's 3>Her "cheat" skill is pure rng until you have some insane deck setupsSo which teams is Nia > Mika because honestly having a harder time using her.
>>544001507have fun anon. I always get some kind of adrenaline rush as i get closer and closer to the end of a chaos run.
>>544001363Epiphany, since removed cards are likely to return to the save file anyway
>>544001660RenoaShe wants draw and discard and doesn't really need AP
She really did get raped by space pirates...
Good thing no RNG upgraded my celestial cards or else the game might deleted them.
>>544001660Nia cycles, Mika batteries. Look for low cost carries.
>>544001830Today I saw Veronica's one and holy shit she's even full of bruises
>Shadow dagger now deals 5 agony>Clone unsheathe dagger>Clone it again >6 shadow dagger>Put agony imprint on boss>60 stacks of agonyIs this the British experience?
W-wow...
What's the go-to team for the weekly boss?
Good morning /czn/!
>>544002060I did 8 turns with Tressa Hugo Mika
>knotted
>>544002060Rei + Tressa + any
>>544002057w-woah... just like my hypnotized jav collection
>>544001959The freebie characters are all pretty good surprisingly, can carry you through most of the game it looks like
https://arca.live/b/chaoszeronightmare/151628424?category=19&p=1
>>544002120there is a chance a character in the future is.
>>544002057>K-Kuso...the way she says it is so hot
>>544002187>no bushmeh
>>544002057the hair strand in the mouth holy fuck
>>544002057Why is she eating her hair
>>543999578she's good but in my opinion, needs a strong 2cost spammer like haru and you build her like that in mind, probably replicating the vulture thing
>>544002060Beryl with her upgrade works, Hugo works, Selena works, Tressa's agony spam works, Magna or Maribell counter spam works
>last reroll>every single 4 star are dupes from the startersthat's it, enough for tonight, be back tomorrow with more of this fresh hell I made for myself!
>>544002057Does every character get a personalized name for their mental breakdown or is it the same depending on the element?
>>544002314Simulating cock pubes.
>>544002187GAME SAVEDMOD WHEN
i NEED her
i got the homo called Gayron...
>>544002494congrats, your account is savedhe is the best dps in the game
What do I pair Haru with? The logical choice seems to be Mika and Cassius, but I'm not sure
>do just fine in chaos run>some random enemy just before the boss that isnt even elite takes down my health to zero before i kill itThis is so fucking cancer.
this is my roster currently. any gems?
Nightmare Difficulty 4 was really hard I beat it with a purple crash. Not all of my units were leveled for it. Though it's definitely teaching me how to prioritize and what uniques to hope you don't get until the end.
>>544002187Why everyone have the same nipples and areola?
>>544002550Unironically just copy one of the teams in her event
>>544002550For Chaos Mika + Khalipe is a no-brainer, but if you don't have Khalipe then your team works
>>544002057average country bumpkin exposed to city life
Well, that's one way to cheat MoC turns later.
>>544002550You can try out different team compositions in event so just pick what suits your playstyle best.
I know these are not top tier but are they decent enough to start with? I've only done the initial 40 rolls (30 on standard and 10 on limited)
>>544002187Somehow Mei Lin is hotter in this >>544002057
>>544002557Let me guess, it was Chaos 3?
>>544002557Oh wait, I can actually still get save data despite failing the boss. Nevermind then. I'm happy with this.
>>544002769Just start playing already
>>544002550Unironically Owen and Mika. This team really good for auto>Mika as battery>Owen armor break and give double attack buff to Haru>Haru anchor shot>retrieve it>anchor shot again
>>544002769Tressa + Rei + Mika can carry you far but your 5-star pulls aren't great.
>>544002576Don't sleep on Rin, once you unlock the potential node that makes your basic attack cards enter into her stance she's fantastic. Rin + Rei + Orlea/Mika is a great team.One of your main teams can be Rin + Rei + Orlea and the other Haru + Cassius + Mika.
>>544002837Yeah, Chaos 3. Some random normal mob with berserk and almost 2k health just did 200-300 damage slashes every turn when nothing in that stage could even do 100 to me before.
Renoa/Rei/Nia is absurd. ABSURD.
Guys I think Khalipe/Nia/Cassius is busted...
WHAT DOES HEAL 100% EVEN MEAN100% of what
>>544002906i JUST got rin which is sorta what prompted me to ask, rin rei orlea being a team makes me happy since i was worried i wouldnt get to use orlea.
>>544002978Was it this dude?
not having a rare partner is what's stopping most people from progressingfuck
>>544000692Magna
>>544003143start rolling gweilo
>>544003115Why are you posting a pussy slit on a blue board?
>>544003115I think so. I should have read his info sooner rather than later. Probably had some conditions that I made even worse with my card choices.
>randomly get 2 copies of ReiGuess I am using her
>>544003240kek>>544003247Yeah he fucking whooped my ass too
do you take training in rest zones?
>>544002486>have a change form where she become super strong like in her animated fightWould you like it?
>>544003075Defense
>>544003334Yeah some neutral cards are busted.
>>544003334training>resting unless you really need health or stress relief
>>544003334Only if I have money to spare for it and to remove a card, otherwise I just restIf you're lucky you can get Pot of Greed but it's pretty rare
>>544003391>>544003423Wouldn't that take up space from your cards that will get epiphany?
>>544003115i had this thing last night too. how the hell do you deal with this properly? it's damage is way overtuned
>>544002873>double attack buffthis only applies to his own attacks, unless there's an epiphany/duplicate that changes this.
>>544003464Those cards can also be epiphanied. My best card is a first aid kit that gives 2ap on us and has celestial.
>>544003391>>544003423Can you skip the cards if you don't like them?
>>544003539yes but you won't get the money spent back
>>544003613Ah okay it's not so bad then. If you were forced to clog your deck with garbage it would be terrible but I can see there being scenarios where you wouldn't mind wasting a bit of money in the hopes of something good.
>>544003423>stress reliefthis is such a fucking scam it does fuckall. I'd rather just tank it and then heal it off
>unit is lvl 40>STILL can't be lvl 3 chaos dungeonsYeah no, seriously FUCK this gay ass fucking shit game
https://arca.live/b/chaoszeronightmare?&sort=ratingAllowen mindbroke them
>>544002187what the fuck
I'm not asking for much please let me keep this save data gods
>Rin's voice lines are not properly translated FUCKING TRANNYLATORSI'm glad I understand Japanese, she's always referring and talking about being a bride, marriage and love but the translation is always something else lmao.
>>544003723>average gacha player playing a game that challenges him for the first time
>>544003837>I'm glad I understand Japanesewhy do i feel like you're lying
>>544003837Cute that you think human beings did the translation.
>>544003723Did you level your partners and milestone skill nodes?Post team.
>>544003723What unit?
>>544003075health stat
>>544003810Jesus, that's insane. I can't even imagine how crazy decks can be in the end game.
>>544003837Send a bug report if you care considering that they're using MTL, they should be more willing to implement changes instead of falling back on a tranny localization team.
>>544003752
>>544003723lmao, just cleared Chaos 4 DT with 1 lvl 40 and 2 lvl 30, get good,
>>544003885I have a JLPT N3 anon.>>544003902Yeah I think they used AI.
>>544003794Arcalive ban America IP.
sexiest battle-ready stance?
>>544003954It was a tough choice between copying that and Beryl's choco bar, but I still don't have a "great" mika save data yet
>>544003810aren't we always able to keep our saves even if we fail?
>>544003810It depends on how far you are in the game it let me keep this but I did it on nightmare 4.
>>544004004it doesnt t. burger nigga recc'd it to me w/o vpn
>>544004020>sex-ready stance?fixed it
>>544004020the way her ass cheeks slightly peek out is great
lmao
.
For the love of God skip the elite battle if you get filtered by Chaos
>>544002187not even a single pubes...
>>544004158but how would i get my epiphanies...........
>>544004137I pick this card every time I see it, might as well say cost 1 / draw 1 ap / deal 600 damage / delay enemy
>>544004056is this the good kayron build?
Ok I'm dying here.
>>544004137I know what tenacity is but I still don't get what 1 tenacity damage means. They really need to fix the fucking dialog.
>>544004020>for the exclusive use of Owen
bros...
>>544004330if you check, tenacity, under the hp bars, has it's own bars. 1 tenacity = 1 bar.
>>544004214Well this is the good build when you use Hugo. The black holes make hugo at max stacks do like 400 damage per attack. It turns him into a weird support where you just fish for them.
>>544004438WHAT COULD THEY HAVE MEANT BY THISAH HELL NAHKEKBROS??
why does every nigger gacha protagonist always have amnesia
>get a semi-infinite>last boos on chaos 1 has an anti-infinite gimmickit's time eater all over again...
>>544004438
>>544004438>>544004134
>>544004514Not this time
the stress stuff is pretty bullshit, one guy can get assblasted like 3 times and not a single stress on the rest
>>544004438cuckgod game
>>544003752one more
buy the bp or renew 4chan pass
holy dogshit potential
>>544004664>4chan passyou're kidding, right?
You think of stress as a punishing mechanic.I think of stress as a low cost ultimate buff.We are not the same.
https://page.onstove.com/chaoszeronightmare/en/view/11135032rerollers, don't forget
when nia discards exhaust cards do they go to the exhaust pile?
>>544004598for whatever reason every time you begin a chaos run the game randomly picks a unit to receive 90% of the stress damage
>>544004676Extra damage on dirge bullets is goodWhat I don't understand is the previous node that increase her basic attack by 5%, how the fuck is that worth the mats?
>no one cares about the storyIts over
>>544004174This is why they're called worst KoreaTheir shaving pubes culture is the reason why the rest of Asia hate them.
>>544004676most chara dupes are kinda shit lmao most notable dupes are surprisingly from 4* even haru's are pretty meh the most important things are getting full holo foils and you cant even whale for them>>544004709it ramps up bad. it can reach 8 cards needed in DT which is really fucked lmao
>>544004438Korean 9/11.
>>544004703>he doesn't know
It's up https://www.youtube.com/live/HOn-ZR9vTFg?si=jinsneZ0ZiY8KuUg
Mei Lin's rider kick is so satisfying
>>544004854sometimes you got 0 hit but they got stress anyway, which is fucking stupid
>>544004863>caring>about wordslop termslop>of a gachage>overly verbose shit>that amounts to little to nothing 10 years laterlole
>>544004815No, otherwise Renoa wouldn't work at all because her entire playstyle requires her to discard exhaust cards
>>544004786>free 20 pulls just from posting in itWhat the fuck
>>544004959we all care about hoyoverse stories though
>>544004330I think tenacity is the break bar
>>544004978thats xp mats scro
>>544004978on what part of the page are you hallucinating 20 pulls
is this poggers? not sure if mute accent is good
>>544005006Well before Hoyoverse there are no gacha games with good story.
>>544005006
>>544004463That makes sense I just wish it was clearer.
uhm, who works good with orlea? you guys said she was good...>she hecking heals a lot!yeah well... that seems to be all she fucking does
>>544004863everyone's just waiting for kino jap writing whenever they get caught up in the gacha space, maybe in 2030
>>544004863I don't care about any video game story.
>>544005128Beryl and any other shielder.
>>543988990CZN being niche isn't surprising but nips spending that much on the disaster that SS is is really funny
the prism module banner has wrong description right? I am getting a 5* every 10 rollsgranted its just cosmetic so who cares
I only read when Renoa's on screen.
>>544005109>copycuk is hereI guess GFL is really death even schizos choose to jump ship
How do you comfortably deal with this GUY?
>>544005128Rin mainly>>544005207FUCK YOU I NEED MY RIN FOILS
>>544005223I'm everywhere anon.
>>544005242
>>544005242i look like this
>>544005223they moved to the other same with /nikg/ /zzz/ and /alter/ and that place helps with funsmoke posting more
>rei dies in the first battleasuka won
>>544001432what do you mean. bad story aside this is as arknights as it gets
>>544005331sorry for your legs bro
>>544005242look at that gigachad
>>544005242Bring more lube.
>keep jobbing at the latter half of ChaosI hate that how some characters are completely reliant on their epiphanies to function properly
>>544004524God, I hate StS. Got a spam deck? TIME EATER!! Got a Power deck? AWAKENED ONE!! Only one of the 3 bosses doesn't counter specific builds and don't even get me started on the Heart.
goddamn renoa is destroying this boss
>>544005307>>544005348Who else in here? I saw 4J and VB posting in here.
>>544004896>most chara dupes are kinda shit lmaoThose aren't the dupe bonuses. That's the potential screen which are free unlocks. The dupe bonuses are the "manifest ego" page and they generally tend to be quite strong.
Just cleared the last level 4 chaos, all chaos down, all that's left is savedata nightmare farming.
>>544005636People really underestimate potential bonuses. A raw 20% to attacks can be a game changer.
>>544005636Haru's Pot2 is probably the single strongest one I've seen in the game so far. They really put out the dolphin bait, can completely build around it with the dupe on crit epi on Anchor.
>>544005703Did you max out exploration level of every chaos?
>>544003810Oh fuck they kept it lets go, added back in both the heals but at least the attack is gone.
rei can exhaust 3 cards from your deck with this holy fuck
>please use our launcher to run... emulatorfucking korean
>>544005975the version that searches for a void card is stronger
what are prism lens for
>can't clear level 30 chaoses when my team and partners are at 30Anons I think I'm very bad, and getting rng doubled up on me isn't very fun either. What are good ways to win runs? Magna and Luke are my only SSRs.
holy honkers
>>544005985LD and Mumu works, although the later I'm using gets fucky with the card arts at times
>>543988990>16% indonesiaIt's not looking good for sorapags...
>>544006180There is a separate banner where you use them as pulling currency.You pull for card animation.
>>544005867Oh true I could work on that, but grinding nightmare does that I think. I need to minmax decks and work on tower but I might hit 40 tomorrow so I don't want to do that yet.
>>544006205pick a damage dealer that fits the chaos
>>544005985Nah, emulation is very framey for me. Launcher runs smooth.
>>544006608Just use khalipe as an AOE DPS for all of them
>>544006501what's a "card animation"
Damn bros, it's 3:20 am, do I keep rerolling or sleep time?
this is a game for mindbreak chads
>>544006667The art on the card gets animated.
>>544006205unlock the major potential nodes for all of your charactersrelics for only set bonus (dont bother with substats this early on)
Cutie
>male furry in Khalipe's teamaaieeeeee
>>544006821>redhead>genki>nopan>chuuni dark flame power>JKI like her more than I thought I would
Which artifact, sorry MEMORY FRAGMENT set is good on which character? Any website that offers info on that?
>>544006697Honestly it's such a great theme.>girls get mindbroken and traumatized>but it's some weird VR setting so other than emotional distress, there are no consequences, as long as they aren't stuck in there>you get to "counsel" the sad, tramuatized girls so they get emotionally dependent on you
>>544006847C U C K E DPOSITIVELYKNOTTED
>5 more daysI am so bricked. There's not enough policy points for this
>>544006954>POSITIVELY>K>N>O>T>T>E>DGod I wish that were me
>>543990102 (me)Forgot to mention I'm trans btw
>>544006667it's animated card just like name imply but it's a bit of gamble cause some of them are just shitty 2 seconds L2D, like Khalipe Rally that I just waste on
Here's your villain bro
>>544007035You buy the research centre upgrade tickets to reach the perk that lowers policy CD and therefore generates more tickets first.
>>544006761I'm trying to do this but it's so slow. The relic thing is some bullshit too wdym 4 runs of the order node but only 1 drop of the relic that's advertised?>>544006608I can't do this for the 2nd chaos don't have something for it.
>>544007035monthly reset is in 13 days not 5 but still yeah it's probably RIP
whos the top dog void unit? I skimmed through their potentials and kayron seem to get most ungabunger upgrades
>>544007232he fucks our women...
>>544006880Use your brain.
Selena makes me dick hard.I wish she was stronger...
>>544006686Just play the game already.
>luckshat a +1 dupedo i go for the +2...?
>>544007609Go for partner instead.
>>544007582This is the first time I reroll and I actually enjoyed the game because I love slay the spire, I'd like to have the girl with the eye patch if possible because she's hot af
I finally got her bros! After a full day of rerolling.
>>544007861Grats anon, hopefully I can get her soon too
Got 2 rerolled accounts that have 2 5 stars. Should I go with Haru+Magna or Mei Lin+Veronica?
>>544007861now you can finally play the game
>>544007902Ganbatte!
most op card in the game
>>544007925both are good, i have haru and magna and they can clear chaos 3 with mika with a little bit of difficulty
>>543989906Depends on the support but yes she is a shielder that absolutely thrashes ads. She will struggle killing bosses on higher difficulties.
>>544008104Every goddess epiphany is so good Thank god she's going to be consistent as soon as we reach chaos 5
5* dupes in this game do not seem that good when compared to lot of other gachas
shouldn't you just grind out the highest nightmare chaos to build decks and just mental wipe combatants if things don't work out?
>>544004437*space pirates
When is it a good time to start doing chaos runs? I currently only have 2 stages unlocked.
>>544007609Yeah, her 2nd dupe drastically changes the way she plays.
who do you think are the best rapebaits in the game?I gotta say Tressa
>>543990132Its a bitch whomst hugo can kill in a single turn
>>544008526You can run it as often as you want, consuming those tickets at the end just gives you EXP / resources. You can still fish for good save data.
>>544008526just finish the stories/battles and all the guide quests first and upgrade your units. At some point you can't do anything but chaos. I'd unlock the 3rd one first though
Do people actually find the mind breaks hot?
>>544008454Depends really. Lots of launch 5*s have shit dupes in other games as well.
Is this shield inflation?
Do you always get to keep your save data after doing Chaos runs? Meaning if you fail at any point you still keep the stuff you got there?
>>543990528Yeah. My usual Cassius Orlea Khalipe team.
>>544008668NTA but when do those tickets refresh? I was worried about spending them on these early runs. Or do you buy them somewhere?
>>544008771Yes. Sometimes it will not be complete though
chat, is this good?
>>544008668>>544008695Thanks and does it matter which stage I pick for my chaos runs or can I just select the stage where my team's element is strong against?
>>544008874if you are gay sure
>>544008874looks really fucking gay bro. you aren't gay, right?
>>544008874homoseedGOD...
that blank expression is sex
>>544008704>>544008454Some of the dupes are actually kind of insane QoLs that definitely influence your playstyle. >Khalipe's Absolute Protection (consume all AP) gets retain, granting her flexibility when it comes to triggering her celestial>On battle start/shuffle, move 1 vulture ejection to top of draw pileFor Orlea it's>Retain on the heal that also buffs your creations>When a creation evolves, immediately retain it once>Instantly evolve your creationsThese are pretty big. It's definitely not as forward as "+20% crit rate" or "+30% damage" as Hoyo's stuff, though.>>544008885Just try out whatever. It's the fun mode, if you will.
>>544008874HomoseedCHAD
gayron, lucas and luke in my bed
>>544008874NTRhomoGOD
>>544008905>>544008907I am. Finally my account is unbricked from the initial fuckup. I pulled the banner girl from 2 pulls, and the rest from the starter banner.Throwing all the hags into the 'never use' bin
>"If an ally is defeated, gain +40% shield">all allies share the same healthbar
>memory fragmentsah fuck...
Is there any point to adding friends? Also, bake new thread
>>544008771You keep the save data even if you die, but dying means someone automatically gets mindbroken (I think in harder stage/deep trauma the entire party might get mindbroken?), then you have to do therapy to keep the data and if you fuck up the therapy the data is lost anyway, and the currency you use for therapy is the same you use to go on dates, I ran out of it because I went on some dates and now I have to wait 8 fucking hours to attempt to save the badass Renoa deck I got because this game server reset happens at a stupid hour
>>544009191>if you fuck up the therapyis that even possible?
Wait, this fixed Veronica randomness, right?
>>544009070It should have been "if an enemy is Broken". I have no idea how they got from Broken to Defeated because even MTL wouldn't confuse those termsI considered making a list of all these mistranslations but the more I dug around the more I realized I will be basically re-translating the game. Every single character and dozens of items have either unclear text or just straight up lie to you, like that item
>>544008821Weekly on Sunday/Monday.
is this good
>>544009267I've only done two therapies and got 100% and 90%I've seen someone gets a 50% at least, I don't know if you can fuck up harder than that
>>544009486straightGOD
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS MEAN AAAAA enemy defeat?? ally attack??? does it affect her? does it only count if she gets a kill I HAVE NO IDEA FUCKING FIX YOUR SHIT
>>544009486no, reroll :)
>>544009486Nyo... send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you.
>spend 240 energy on memo frags to finish one of the beginner questsFUCKI COULD'VE USED THAT TO LEVEL UP OTHER CHARACTERS THAT I WANT TO TRY OUT
>>544009486Leave some to us bro...
>>544009312>The only thing correctly translated is the dogshit story
a rate up selector for the standard partner banner would be nice
>>544005538Fuck, I really want Renoa, but I got the fucking furry as my second SSR
>>544009486you know it's good retard
>>544009486HeterostraightvanillaDEITY
AAAAAAAA STOP MAKING ME WANT TO USE MY CRYSTALS ON STANDARD
>page 8
>>544008104This one is better
>>544009680Yeah I'm saving currency to buy them from shop now but a banner would be better.
This seems fishy...
>>544009312Hopefully they'll work on improving it. It's a pretty big flaw in a deck building game
Flush the toilet already bros
This is the last thread...And it's all my fault...
you rike what you see?
>>544009058Based
>>544009773I'm edging too. Haru is such a shitty first banner.
>>544009267I got 80% and the NPC bitched at me to pay more attention next time, as if I'm supposed to know what each choice does.
>>544000443Elemental weakness provides a 1.5x damage multiplier actually.
>>544010082Is Rei supposed to be used with Crayons? So she can draw out any of his void cards.
>>544010194But the choices are obvious, no? Like if one says to hold her hand or the other says to shock her...
>>544010235yes its for blackhole man
Bake a new one or you'll see what a nightmare OP looks like
guys should I buy the monthly
>>544010325Guys I think he's serious, I've seen some Hugo art already...
So what would actually fix/improve the game?>retranslate everything>rewrite the story>double down on the gore/mindbreak >redo ai art What else?
>>544010553STEAM VERSION for the love of god
>>544009282Yeah
>>544009786There's no reason to make a new thread before page 9 or 10.
>>544010669>>544010669>>544010669
>>544010478I bought it for zenless zone zero and im glad I did. If you like this game it's worth it.
>>544010553auto battle chaos
>>544009790duping it is best
>>543990972Not really IMO. They tend to only give me Rare equipment and 70 credits for some rather annoying encounters. If you got an amazing deck then maybe, but I definitely advise against.
>>544002550You'd be correct.
>>544003484Wrong, the extra hit applies to all your attack cards.
>>543989770>the entire setting screams AKarkbab when they play literally any other game that has a darker story
>>543998098She is quite bad until they get to 3* then they become disgustingly good other than Softie which is always kind of middling. But I have a deck that focuses around guaranteed 3* Swifties and Retain Buffing the shit out of it and it works great.
>>543999468Some are very big boosts and some are whatever. Like the first Crayon dupe is amazing. Meanwhile most Orlea dupes are just fine. Not a single one is amazing but they stack up.
What's the point of this?
