>>579892525
heroes already solved this

>>579892714
Didn't heroes just give them a bunch of different clothes and stuff. I don't think that's really the same thing

>>579892407
She's cute!

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>>579884183
>The fact nobody mentioned the Rom ass shot confirmed to me this fandom is just gay.
I took note of it, but forgot to post... Forgive me anon...

>>579892789
also changed eyes and shit, can't find a pic for all the avatars but yeah

Pan is so cute...

>>579893039
It's interesting that Rom seems to be the only one transformed during these cutscenes. I wonder if it's just her default combat form or something

>>579893039
Based

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>>579893058
Heroes gave Androids UI, though weirdly enough, their hair didn't go silver.

>>579893058
Androids like 17 and 18 aren't even machines, though. They're more like cyborgs.

>>579896210
They just gave up on MUI/UI with the androids and Note, huh. Feels like not giving female ss3 females big brow lines

What exactly is a "Bio-Android" in the context of XV?

>>579896210
>their hair didn't go silver.
isnt that only a saiyan thing? and for androids with UI maybe they could just go full chrome

>>579896954
I mean it's not exactly like we've seen any other race use ultra instinct canonically. You just kind of go with whatever

>>579892525
And for Jedi, the lightsaber glows silver

>>579896210
>their hair didn't go silver.
isnt that only a saiyan thing? and for androids with UI maybe they could go full chrome

>>579896687
It's just a fan name for Cell-like.

>>579896687
Whenever I think of Bio-Androids, it's usually characters like Cell, Baby, and Hatchiyack. I guess Mira and 21 too, technically. Does Fu count... does Marron count?

>>579897362
Unless what kind of wacky bio enhancements gero did changed 18 at a genetic level, marron should just be a normal human

>>579897462
>Unless what kind of wacky bio enhancements gero did changed 18 at a genetic level
She was changed on a cellular / molecular level so it should.

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>>579897362
Honestly they should just have a category called "Alien" and shove everything that isn't a human or saiyan in there. Give it all the weird parts that Toriyama sticks on his characters so that you could make whatever weird amalgam you could invent. Set the standard Namekian, Frieza, or Cell setup as character presets incase people want one of them specifically so they have a good starting point.

Then give them a giant form, a 100% power form, and a generic Super form that you design right after making the character where you can change the colors and some other aspects like size or head shape. Add a SSJ3 esque thing to this super form which is identical to the first one.

Bam, orange namek, gold/black freiza and everything inbetween accounted for while giving incredible customization with your character. Bioandroids? done. Hit's species? Done. Ginyu? Done. Saibaman? Done. Random OC alien you just think looks cool? Done.

>>579898552
Lame, that would remove all depth from the races

>>579898552
>shove everything that isn't a human
Lmao, keeping humans as their own slot while shoving even Namekian and Fridges together is so dumb.

This'll be my first time really delving into XV; can you go from super saiyan to 4/blue, like just continuously rise through your transformations?

>>579899385
No. Super Saiyan 1-3 are their own transformation. God and blue are their own transofrmations (because God was added way way after blue was) and 4 just isn't in the game at all. This is how it works for 2, we have no idea how it'll work for 3

>>579843515
>XV3 will have a roster of 130+ characters
Didn't they say "130+characters, including non-playable characters"?

>>579899132
Well androids would also be chucked into human, or I guess "earthling" would be a better name, since they're essentially indistinguishable. If anything human is a limitation since it's just alien with an assload less amount of customization options. Saiyan you have to make it's own thing because of the transformations.

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>>579899560
It seems that the 130+ characters isn't actually an indicator for the roster size. Though that does recontextualize a few things. I'm sure they wouldn't have each different version of the same character have different skill trees.

>>579900004
This just means saiyan is the only race that gets a proper amount of attention where everyone else has to fight for scraps and bootleg themselves a race instead of having a proper one, which will never have the same polish a pre created race will have

>>579899521
damn, bummer, thanks tho

>>579900196
Since I think my orignal comment was a little confusing. you CAN go from 1-3 in one transformation, that's based on your ki usage. No other transformation works like this though. God, Blue, Super Vegeta (not the grades, just a stat swap), etc are all individual skills

>>579900131
What, you think they don't reuse assets between the races? The character creator is just a single large CC broken down into several mini-CCs with a limited part pool. Same base template except this one can't use the horns asset and another can't use the antenna asset. Combining them means you maintain the options you would have had and have access to parts you normally wouldn't with a set race. But it goes farther. Pikkon for instance isn't a selectable race, but in practice he's just a human with no nose, green skin, Freiza's ears and Cell2s lips. This sort of lego build-a-alien is something toriyama does alot. In a theoretical alien-race world, all those parts are avaliable, so you've added like half of every xeno species to the game just using existing assets.

If it really bothered people you could seperate out the nameks and freizas and then also add an alien race that had all of their assets but it seems redundant since alien would just be an objectively better choice than them since you'd have all of their stuff + more.

>>579896687
Android = 8, 13, 16, 19
Cyborg = 17, 18 and 20/Gero
Bio-Android = Cell and 21

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You are going to see a significant amount of fat namekians named SuperKamiGuru

>>579902203
17 and 18 are augmented. Gero is the cyborg.

>>579903254
They're all cyborgs, just with different ratios of organic/cybernetics.

>>579903310
That's the thing, 17 and 18 don't have mechanical parts. That's what defines a cyborg.

>>579904343
Not him but they do, otherwise Gero couldn't have devised a device that shuts them down, it's just that their enhancements are on a cellular level so they feel human.

>>579904656
Isn't it bombs inside of them, not just a shutdown switch. I don't think Paz from ground zeroes is a cyborg

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>>579904343
17 and 18 are the lamest "androids" ever. We had crazy dudes with lifesucking palms, brain cases and metal bodies. Even 16 had rocket fists and laser beams.

>>579904656
That's how crazy good Gero is. He did it biomechanically. They're basically a precursor to Cell. Hell, that's why they can even be absorbed by him.

>>579904850
They have perpetual motion engines or something in them. Or nanomachines. Something that gives them infinite energy without technically having ki.

>>579905809
who the hell knows where they get that from. People assume it's mechanical because 16 also has it and he's fully mechanical, but no one knows really

>>579905809
isn't that westoid fanism?

Lapis and Lazuli.

I like the fan interpretation of how various jinzouningen connect to Gero.
I'm honestly somewhat inclined to believe things like 13 being based on Gero's younger self, since Toriyama just had ideas like 16 and 19 being based on things from Gero's past and never talked about it.

>>579906282
I've never seen the idea that 19 is based on something from Gero's past

>>579906096
Which part? The infinite energy is canon. I made up the part about them not technically having ki because iirc they cannot sense the Dragon Team, but when I think about it neither could the evil Saiyajin or Freeza Force before Vegeta became a good guy and learned the ability.
The thing is, Japan uses "Jinzoningen" to refer to 16-20 and Cell alike. 16 and 19 are clearly robots. 20 resembles Gero but appears to be Gero's human brain in a mechanical body that happens to be modeled after his old human self. 17 and 18 were augmented on a cellular level, but we have no idea what that really means. We know that 18 must have a uterus and ovaries, since she got pregnant, though technically we never saw her get pregnant.
Cell is organic because we see him bleed when he gets decimated several times in fights, but it's unclear how much of him is supposed to just be a humanoid cicada since he's 100% created by Gero (based on other DNA) instead of augmenting an existing body like the other organics, 17 and 18.
Then Hedo creates the Gammas, who seem to maybe be robots again? But Cell Max has similar biology to prime Cell.

>>579906462
It comes from the Full Colors and their Q&A sections.
Here's some interesting stuff.
>Why did Dr. Gero create the Artificial Humans?
>So they couldn’t be used by enemies!
>With normal mechanized weapons, there’s the risk that they will pass into an enemy’s hands and be used by them, so he took the drastic step of developing Artificial Humans, who possess the ability to think for themselves.

>Q7: Did Dr. Gero make anything apart from Artificial Humans?
>All of the Red Ribbon Army’s weapons!
>The Red Ribbon Army’s weaponry was all made by Dr. Gero. Gero was a founding member of the Army to begin with, and was also effectively in control.

>Q4: What kind of Artificial Humans were Nos. 1–8?
>Entirely artificial, like No. 19!
>The sole weakness of the genius Dr. Gero’s inventions was that “personality control” didn’t work well, so that’s believed to be the reason why he changed his methods to using humans who were bad to begin with and remodeling them into Artificial Humans, like Nos. 17 and 18. It was thought that he had succeeded with cyborg-types, but ultimately, these were also failures because they wouldn’t listen to orders the way he wanted. He reversed course again, and No. 19 was his first success.

>Q5: What type were Artificial Human Nos. 9–12?
>They were all completely artificial!
>Nos. 9–12 were entirely artificially constructed. The reason for their failure was the same as Nos. 1–8: almost all had problems with personality control. Too dark, too pure, just plain stupid, etc.

>Q5: Was there a model for Artificial Human No. 19?
>No. 19’s model was a doll!
>The model for No. 19 was a doll that was displayed in the command center of an enemy base. Way back when, Dr. Gero took it back with him as a war trophy.

>>579899560
>>579900115
https://www.db-z.com/dragon-ball-xenoverse-3-interview-gamescom-2026-in-english/

According to this its probably 130 playable characters but 130+ mentors

>>579904850
No, the bomb is something they can use at will, which is probably actually fully mechanical and thus can be removed by Shenron, as it's not really part of themselves but just a prosthetics if you must. What Gero and Bulma built was a switch that shuts them down safely so they can be properly disposed off without problems.

>>579907009
Krillin was generally acting like the shut down switch would have killed them though, hence the assumption that it would've detonated the bombs.

>>579905809
>>579906835
>Which part? The infinite energy is canon
The infinite energy comes from cellular level modification Gero made, outside their bombs, they're fully flesh and blood

>>579904981
at least it seems like you have actual robotic options

>>579906843
A few more
>Q3: Whose cells is Cell’s personality based on?
>It’s an original personality with various other characters’ personalities added in.
>Cell’s basic design was thought up by Gero as the ultimate artificial human, while Gero was in a good mood due to successfully completing No. 19. The computer redesigned the weak parts of the original personality, adding in the personalities of various different characters to make him the perfect weapon.

>Q4: What’s Akira Toriyama-sensei’s favorite artificial human?
>Second-Form Cell!
>That beefy guy. When I showed it to my editor at the time2 and said this is what I had settled on, he said “Hey, this guy looks stupid. Hurry up and make him into his perfect form”. I had actually planned on having him play a more active role.

>Q4: Was there a model for Artificial Human No. 16?
>Dr. Gero’s son!
>The model for No. 16 was Dr. Gero’s son, who died young long ago. He was a high-ranking soldier in the Red Ribbon Army, but he was felled by an enemy bullet. Having a special place in his heart for his own child, Gero gave No. 16 great power and a fearsome explosive mechanism1, but not wanting him to be destroyed in battle if possible, he gave him a gentle personality, which caused No. 16 to become a failure.

>Q4: Do modified-human types like Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18 get stronger if they train?
>Since they’re human-based, of course they can become even stronger if they train.
>In the case of modified-human types like No. 17 and No. 18, since they’re human-based they can become stronger if they train. By the way, though they don’t need to eat, they do need to hydrate. Also, their cells deteriorate slowly, so they age slowly too.

These also confirm that 17 has three kids (if I recall DBS reconfirmed this), but only one is his natural kid, the other two are adopted.

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>>579897138
it is still pretty amusing to me that Ninth Jedi had that happen
Ninth Jedi also was way, way better a "sequel" story to the OT than anything the Mouse set after the OT but that's an admittedly low, low bar to cross

>>579906282
I don't like this idea because it feels too much like the "Everything must have some big deep connection worthy of ten wiki pages" that a lot of long-running series keep doing. Especially the shit in EU Star Wars and Sonic and whatever.

>>579906835
>I made up the part about them not technically having ki because iirc they cannot sense the Dragon Team
16 Explicitly can sense Ki, so it has nothing to do with their ki types or something

>>579906282
Where does the idea that 13 is a young gero come from anyways. If you put Gero and 13 next to eachother they look absolutely nothing alike aside from having earrings. their jaws are COMPLETELY different

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Here's a better quality image of the NPC with Android 21's hairstyle, I saw a man with base Broly's hairstyle too so I think it's safe to say every wig in xenoverse 2 has become a hairstyle with a super saiyan color to match

There's one thing I'm a bit concerned about, there are a LOT more skirts in this game and it seems like they have physics, so are female characters who use Ginyu's fighting style gonna be flashing the quad if they use it?

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>>579907269
>16 Explicitly can sense Ki,
Android 16 basically has a built in scouter that gives info like 19 and 20, they don't actually use the ki sense technique

>>579907431
>Rouga whowhoken
The wolf fang fist is so irrelevant even Gero doesn't know what it is...

>>579907141
I think it was more that he then had to kill them after activating it.

>>579907430
I don't see the similarities.

>>579907431
>yamcha is 149 pounds at 6ft
Is the man a skeleton?

>>579907252
>"Everything must have some big deep connection worthy of ten wiki pages"
Well it's just interesting since Toriyama surprisingly thinks about some of these things and had a lot of stuff he just never brought up outside his creation process.
He has a clear level of thought process given to his stuff that is just never addressed, especially in his character designs (ranging from recycling Tsun from Slump for Yamucha, since both have similar personality types and struggles, to 16 being Gero's son explaining quite a bit about the character in retrospect).
>>579907397
Mainly that he's the sole human model with no real explanation.
#8 was said to be based on a dead soldier in the anime, I don't recall if the manga had that, 16 was Gero's son, 17 and 18 were normal humans, 20 was Gero himself, and 21 was Gero's wife.
So him having white hair gives the idea that maybe it's Gero himself.

>>579906932
Ohhh, that makes more sense

>>579907776
I mean do any of the other androids in the super android 13 movie have an explanation? Do we have the deeplore on why Gero made android 15 a midget with a sombrero and why 14 is some random gray guy?

>>579907964
>Do we have the deeplore on why Gero made android 15 a midget with a sombrero and why 14 is some random gray guy?
There's probably some napkins in the Toei archives explaining it

>>579907196
Oh, I see what you're trying to say. I meant that there's some kind of perpetual motion and/or nanomachine mixed with their cells. They have no mechanical augmentation, but Gero had to do something technological to upgrade them, otherwise he'd be a wizard instead of a scientist. The thing is, Toriyama didn't care what it was, so we can only speculate.

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>>579907397
probably just the eye/hair color. Though old people in anime do change alot from their young appearence. Half the time they look nothing like their younger version aside from eyes and hair color so it might be the case for Gero aswell.

>>579907992
Not even remotely on-model, eww.

>>579908049
All androids have the exact same eye color, don't they? I don't think that's much of anything. It really does feel like the only connection is they both have white hair and Gero's is easily explained by the fact that he's a decrepit old man

One Toriyama thing I've always considered to be the case in my head was that King Cold only exists because of the Cooler film.
Toriyama did the designs for that movie and knew it was coming out before he had fully killed off Freeza, so he probably decided to create and immediately kill off King Cold so that nobody would be thinking "Well, if there's a brother, why wouldn't there be a father?"
>but what about Freeza mom
Considering Kuriza, I also imagine Freeza's race reproduces asexually

>>579907992
sex

XV3 looks fun. But I'm going to need to see the story before I buy

>>579908042
I mean, I think he just modified the cells themselves rather than putting in nanomachines but they never went into details either way.
>but Gero had to do something technological to upgrade them, otherwise he'd be a wizard instead of a scientist.
Well yeah but if you know Warhammer, those two were more Throt-type projects than Ikkit-type projects if that make science, it was biology mostly it seems.

>>579908186
You will regret your words and deeds once it's revealed toriyama designed Frieza's mom with HUGE tits and put her in xenoverse 3

>>579908042
>otherwise he'd be a wizard instead of a scientist.
Scientists are just aesthetically different wizards in fiction. Just like how Goku and co are fist wizards

>>579907776
I could have sworn it was finally confirmed somewhere that the movie staff had the idea of basing 13 on Gero. Either way, I assume they just hand over ideas and designs to Toriyama and he give them the final design, like DQ.

>>579908528
As far as i'm aware the android 13 Gero stuff has always been fanon. I've never seen it official in any capacity

>>579908274
You will find a bad guy from heroes. You will fight him as he fucks with canon events by making the bad guys have evil auras. At the end of the game he'll get a super evil form and you and the other irrelevant annoyances onesidedly claiming to be your friends will do a legally distinct kamehameha to beat him. Goku will be there and he will say you're strong and ask to fight you someday. Beerus will appear in the background and say he could have totally killed the bad guy super easy but didn't because his ass was itching.

>>579907564
Put on the 21 wig and you'll see it's the exact same length as the hair seen here with the same bang location and what's that thing at the top of her head? i think it's called an ahoge but I may be wrong, you can see that on the NPC

here's the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS1S9T7qxAg
at 40 seconds look at girl and as John runs by and it's easier to see that's 21's hairstyle in base, through I don't think her hair changes that much when she transforms into her majin self
By the way the fat girl next to the NPC has that fat girl who was sitting on Cabba in the TOP anime I think she was from Universe 4

Honestly, half the fun of these gameplay segments is seeing the NPCs, it lets us know ust how many options we have and how many new styles their are

I wonder if you'll be able to generate cards for your CaC's that let other people download them like Soul Caliber 6

>>579908635
>You will find a bad guy from heroes.
Neither Towa, Mira, Fuu or Demigra were from heroes.

>>579908968
That would be cool. Then you could play with your fiends even when they're not online.

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Ordered one of those Burger King meals handing out Dragon Ball figures. Ended up getting a Piccolo

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>>579908747
it's similar but doesn't seem like the same hair to me. 21 has those really long bits on the side of her face and the whole hair seems to curl upwards more.

>>579888572
Let us make the new form for Freeza Race like it's a second character since Freeza claims he intentionally made those forms and Golden look the way they do

>>579909365
That's what her hair looks like xenoverse 2 with the wig

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i love the character but even i was like, "this is an android?"

>>579909220
Based

>>579910002
I mean, you say it like basically all of the androids aren't just dudes. Only Cell is particuarly any monstrous

I think the real problem with android 21 is that she has the Majuub issue of "buu is when they use candy beam" and has essentially nothing else of buu's fighting style. She can stretch her tail but it's in a way that's more namekian than buu

>>579910002
side effect of japanese being the way it is. The word used for android is "jinzoningen" which means "artificial human". That accounts for cyborgs, androids, nanite-enhanced humans, bioweapons like cell and 21 who's like some combination of all of that + magic demon goo.

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>21's outfit is in
>21's hairstyle is in
>attacks are confirmed to require bonding with mentors and mastering their skill tress before you can get their supers/ultimates and whatever passes for a super soul in this game

those of you who played the first xenoverse game can you educate me on what a Z soul is? apparently the move where a character you're bonded with appears is a z soul like skill

also I noticed that while they were eager to show off Rom's transformation they actually hid the new Baba like character, we see her tent and then cut to Ginyu appearing in some area, thanks to information we know the baba character has a Gyaru like persona but how does that work?

Really excited to be talking about this gaem with all this information I hope we get more in VJUMP or later this month I really wanna see what makes Androids different from earthlings

I can easily see them adding her and Android 13's transformations to them just to give them something within story instead of making something brand new up.

Toriyama was super involved in this so I wonder if we'll get a red ribbon/red pants army knock off group to face at some point, bro loved that shit

>>579910373
desu blame gero for throwing 17 and 18 into the same project line as all the other androids despite being an entirely different thing. Cell has no number designation because he's clearly a different project but then 21 is given a number designation despite being the same project as Cell

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>>579910270
the low test nippon fear a woman who can do weird shit with her body.

>>579910270
I disagree, she eat and absorb people a lot, she basically has Cell's vore.

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>>579910535
if 21 becomes an android transformation choosing between that and majin will be hellish. God help me if they also add SSJ4 in. More difficult decision than naming my firstborn.

>>579910635
Buu is one of my favorite fighters in shounen purely from the sheer amount of bullshit fun coreography he can pull off, which is why 21 and majuub make me sad. They besmirch the majin legacy
>>579910978
Eating people and absorsbing people doesn't have anything to do with Buu's general *fighting style*, anon. I'm talking about shit like the wacky stuff kid buu does like ripping his arm off or super buu going into a guy to explode him or fat buu ripping some gum off his stomach to ensnare vegeta to bet him up. Buus are WHIMSICAL, Buus are WACKY. Majuub and 21 aren't really either of these things aside from generic candy beam rep

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>>579907710
>Vegeta and Yamcha are victim weight. A bunch of the Z fighters probably are.
That explains a lot.

>>579911020
if ss4 gets in and it's a fur bra instead of a tube top for females I will never talk shit about dimps again

>>579909220
>piccolo has no red on his arms
>beerus is wearing black for some reason
These are worse than the collab they did like 30 years ago.

21 is a fatty and needs to be bullied for her feeding habits

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>>579908049
>Though old people in anime do change alot from their young appearence. Half the time they look nothing like their younger version aside from eyes and hair color so it might be the case for Gero aswell.
I'm not so sure. Filler did come up with pic related design for Roshi, and while it's hard to say if the jaw is the same, they have the same nose, and the head shape seems to be about the same. Toriyama doesn't change characters' designs too drastically when a character ages, even his design for old Goku was just "Goku but with grey hair, a beard, and wrinkles", so following that logic, 13 = young Gero just doesn't work because his jaw, nose and hair style (not just the size, Gero's hair is a lot puffier than 13's) are all different from Gero's.

>>579911139
Well yeah, 21 is a Jinzoningen first and foremost.

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>>579908186
>One Toriyama thing I've always considered to be the case in my head was that King Cold only exists because of the Cooler film.
Freeza did offhandedly mention fighting his parent at some point back in Namek, but by then, Cooler's movie was probably in production. I did always find it weird that Freeza said "I never thought there was anyone stronger in the world/universe than Ginyu", only for him to mention his parent managing to hurt him in the very next chapter (Although, in the Ginyu case he could simply mean "currently in this planet").

>>579911020
Super saiyan 4 was leaked as day 1 DLC anon, what you should really be curious about is why the basic saiyan awakening doesn't have super saiyan 2, even in the new build it goes from 1 to 3 only

>>579912425
>I did always find it weird that Freeza said "I never thought there was anyone stronger in the world/universe than Ginyu", only for him to mention his parent managing to hurt him in the very next chapter (Although, in the Ginyu case he could simply mean "currently in this planet").
It's more like when talking about the world's strongest, you talk about men and not say an elephant.

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>>579907431
>>579911323
Japan doesn't know how weight works.

>>579912641
To be fair, DnD has the same kind of issue. That's why one of the most OP damage source in BG3 is just weight.

>>579912503
I would guess whatever code they have to make the forms work is used for several transformations and built to work with 2 stages and the minor coding tweaks required to add in another one was too much work for a form no one really cares about.

>>579913304
but how can the rare gohans thrive without super saiyan 2?

>>579911527
same

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>>579913358
we have SSJ2 gohan at home

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>>579906835
>I made up the part about them not technically having ki because iirc they cannot sense the Dragon Team
Sensing ki is a skill that they lack, and machines can sense ki if designed to do so (Scouters, 16, 19 and Gero's radar, that machine Babidi has). Gohan does say Androids must not have ki because they can't be sensed though, and while he was talking about 19 and Gero, 17 and 18 are still different since they can't be sensed either. At best it's a different kind of ki (Such as god ki), but it was never specified that way.

>>579913961
The Trio De Danger couldn't be sensed either in DBS.

>Yes, of course. All races can awaken into new forms, because we want to treat every race equally.
>In fact we have also made changes to awoken skills compared with Xenoverse 2
I guess every race is getting more than one form now and not just Saiyans. We already saw a Frieza cac go full power. I hope they give some of them original forms like they did for ROM.

>>579909624
exactly, like giving us access to shiny metal colors when we reach that form

>>579912503
Because Toriyama forgot SS2 existed.

Cell being the only android who's ki could be sensed was cool distinction

>>579909365
XV2 had a version of Towa's hair with the long hair bit cut off. Could be the same thing here.

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>>579911527
You'll get the tube top and you like it.:

>>579916529
man the shirt really breaks the whole design

>>579915917
>We already saw a Frieza cac go full power
What??

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>>579916806

>Earthling (human/saiyan hybrids)
>Namekian
>Frieza Clan (still needs a canon name)
>Glind (Kai/Demon/Majin/whatever)
>Majin (Buufolk)
>Outworlder (catch-all aliens)
>beastfolk (catch-all animal people)
This is all ya need.

>>579917039
Is that not Final/Base form like Frieza and Frost have?

>>579911527
>SSJ3 lets tou keep your eyebrows of you're a woman
There's no way they have the guts to give women body hair in SSJ4.

>>579918524
>Frieza Clan (still needs a canon name)
I hope XV3 does cause it's our last chance

Bump

>>579896954
Don't Angels have white hair because they are in "perma" UI?

What'll the Android awoken skills look like?
>Super Android (you need to absorb other androids. How's that gonna work?)
>Cell's Form Changes (personally that's a little too similar to Super anyway)

>>579925481
the super form will probably just show them sucking up the little parts and skim over the fact that they came from other androids.

>>579918894
If Toriyama did finally give them a name, it should be one of the things they lead with when they officially reveal all the races.

>>579925481
They can just hand wave it as them being more advanced, so they just have a built in super form. The Cell ones would be the more interesting one. I guess they could just transform by absorbing enough energy from their opponents. Or maybe it's a permanent thing you gain through story?

>>579925481
>(you need to absorb other androids. How's that gonna work?)
You just need their parts really, you can literally just have your CaC have a bunch of spare parts they put on to transform and remove / deactivate to detransform.
Like combining robots.

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>>579926595
>yfw they add a super robot transformation

>>579926804
I mean, why not? That wouldn't be more random that humans pulling out Nyoibo and Kinto'un from their asses.
Also really 13's transformation is technically a VERY low scale version of that.

>>579926804
>>579926905
Also Anilaza exist.

>>579925379
they were born like that

>>579926804
>magical girl and super robo transformations
Would be true kino

>>579902997
Thanks TFS

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>>579926804
Fusssss ionnnnn HA!

>>579925379
Sort of a chicken & egg situation. Does Goku's hair turn white because he's becoming like the angels, or do angels have have white hair because they've learned UI like Goku?

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This looks so good.

>>579911139
>Buus are WHIMSICAL, Buus are WACKY
The whole point of Kid Buu is that he doesn't fuck around

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>>579932167

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What did it say originally?

>>579932834
Probably "hate"

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>>579932167
>The whole point of Kid Buu is that he doesn't fuck around
Anon...

>>579932167
The whole point of Kid Buu is that he's CHAOTIC. He moves according to whatever whims he has. He uses enough power to blow up the Earth several times over one moment, then he could just doze off while waiting to get on with the fighting the next.

So 130 playable characters, plus a few NPC-exclusive mentors. What kind of skill trees would the NPC mentors have? Would it just be an assist and stat boosts?

>>579937604
>plus a few
Imagine if it's like 30 NPCs and we have only 100 playable characters

>>579892407
>>579893039
>>579907181
Rom please don't pin me down and have your way with me haha

>>579937604
Well, if they aren't playable they wouldn't have a viable moveset on their own. That doesn't mean they could be useful at all. Maybe they pop in as support? Having fortune teller baba or babidi stand in the corner casting de/buffing spells could be interesting. Maybe Babidi gives you an awoken skill to yet the majin boost vegeta got? Mr. Satan could stumble and make the enemies trip over him, or when you punch someone they go flying into his fist he just happened to have out while yawning for extra damage. Those would still be unique moves or game modifying elements while still being true to the non-fighters' role in the story.

>>579938716
That'd still be good for release. Fighting games are generous of they give you twenty fighters period. Dragon Ball always goes above & beyond that.

>>579938762
Okay. Bend over instead.

>>579939276
and that's why you behave around girls with tails

I refuse. Tails are for pulling.

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>>579940042
Ha! Nice try!

I'll just pull harder! Pull and squeeze and rub and even bite! Until the monke is overcome with PLEASURE!

Majins should get that evil purple form 21 had

>>579942321
No, that's for androids

>>579938716
I'd imagine the NPC exclusive mentors would be characters who are either canonically too weak to be real fighters, or don't have enough moves to warrant making them fully playable. We're talking maybe characters like Chiaotzu, Mercenary Tao, King Kai and the Supreme Kai.

>>579940538
It gets bigger when I pull on it

>>579938867
>Dragon Ball always goes above & beyond that.
FighterZ didn't and went the same route as other fighting games.

I will PULL on Rom's tail!

>tail pulling
you are lacking vision
ponder tail stroking

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Dragon Ball Racing

Who is the blonde girl?

>>579944972
Rom. She's a demon idol.

I hope they add a Naruto costume

>>579892407
>>579945034
I knew they would bring a Vtuber to DB after how much tickets the One Piece one sold

>>579859983
>>579860229
I tried to stitch it a while ago.
https://files.catbox.moe/cnxem9.jpg
anyway, it's from artbook "Bitch's Life"

>>579945240
but Rom's only a small part of this game where as Ado's character who isn't really her since she only voices her when singing is a canon character whose yet to make an official canon appearance

I don't like Rom's new form

I don't know enough about Rom's new form to say what way I feel about it

>>579907141
No? The story treats the bomb and the switch as two completely different functions.

So according to whatever her name is leaker the Moro arc is actually getting crazy and stunning visuals, way better than the Super anime remaster.
Think we are getting some One Piece high budget tier shit?

>>579949531
>So according to a leaker
no

>>579949436
It's kind of weird. Krillin acts like using the shutdown switch will immediately kill 18 the second he uses it, despite 17 acting like it'd just put them to sleep earlier on, and the 17/18 line of androids aren't actually mentioned to have bombs at any point iirc. Krillin is just treated as correct when he wishes 17 and 18's bombs away. Hence my assumption that they got connected at some point in Toriyama's mind

>>579950410
>the 17/18 line of androids aren't actually mentioned to have bombs at any point iirc
They are, 18 was about to blow herself when Cell was approaching, it's when he uses 17's voice to convince her being absorbed feels great IIRC myself.
I also think it's understandable Krillin treated using the switch as executing 18 because that would give Cell complete freedom to absorb her unless Krillin himself destroyed her shut down body. Using the switch to save the world implied having to kill her.

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>>579950716
>18 was about to blow herself when Cell was approaching
It's kind of weird? 18 Just kind of says she's going to kill herself and places her hand on her chest like she's going to ki blast herself, nothing about the bomb. Like you can probably say it's just the bomb because it's brought up 16 has a bomb later but given how toriyama writes this shit as he goes it could just be one of those things

>>579949531
If weekly One Piece can have crazy animation since Wano/Egghead then so should a seasonal DB arc we waited 10 years for.

>>579952130
you will get early super tier animation and we will clap

When are they going to change the Breakers clothes shop already

>>579896954
>>579897193
We have seen Moro get silver fur and cheek marks when copying UI. Not silver eyes tho so I get the way it manifests changes from one species to another

>>579953239
If Toei animates moro voring the android dude with the same amount of effort they did for Cell way back when i'm not sure this fandom is going to survive

>>579952130
One Piece is no longer weekly tho, they switched to seasonal precisely to keep delivering good animation with a non-abyssal pacing (sometimes) and not getting ahead of the manga. But yeah if the Moro arc is gonna be seasonal they should be able to deliver, it's DB for fuck sake and people have been asking for this arc since before some present day DB fans were even born

Wait is DBS GP seasonal? Are we sure? It's only one arc yes but is it going to be released in multiple cours or just weekly from ep1 until the end?

>>579953507
Nothing has been confirmed either way, anons are just postulating it's seasonal because that's the only way to get proper animation and avoid another early super situation where the animators had zero time and infinity crunch

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>Toriyama's final gift is letting Yamcha marry and have kids, with Brett being his descendant
After all the shit my boy went through, I'm at least glad to know that he didn't go out as a bachelor. He deserves to be happy. I wonder who Yamcha married. Lunch, perhaps?

>>579953507
If it continues it'd probably be seasonal, but Beerus will just be a one and done.

Considering Daima's exclusion in the remastered version of Super and the doubts that it will be brought up in any upcoming Super stories, I think it's safe to say that Daima is in its own continuity? It's canon to the original manga but not canon to Super, while Super is canon to the original manga but not canon to Daima.

At this rate, it seems like Dragon Ball is one big multiverse similar to Marvel. The original manga is the primary canon and then it branches off from there. Then there's the anime that also branches off, with GT being canon to Toei but not canon to Toriyama's original work.

>>579958028
It took you this long to figure that out?

if you had to choose, would you prefer your CaC to get daima 4 or normal 4

>>579958150
I try to stay away from fandoms as canon discussions can get pretty heated in Dragon Ball. I mostly stick to my lane and make fanarts and fanfics.

>>579958340
what kinda fics do you make

>>579958317
Normal 4

>>579958028
It's better not to think about canon after the original manga because your head will explode.

>>579958463
AUs and What If stories. I wanted to try and do a complete rewrite on Z but also use a bunch of ideas that Toriyama originally wanted to use, but got turned down by editors, like keeping Android 19 and 20 as the main villains for the Android arc but also keep 17 and 18 under Gero's control (they'd turn against him still) and Cell as a last call. I remember hearing a theory a while ago that the reason Trunks used a sword at the beginning was because he needed to prevent them from grabbing him and draining his energy. I would like to bring back Goku's power pole, Yamcha his sword. And maybe Krillin could have been gifted Master Roshi's staff as a sign he's now leader of the Turtle School and have them fall back to tactics instead of blunt force trauma.

I also wanted to expand more on the Saiyan arc by showing more of Vegeta and Nappa attacking other planets before they arrive to Earth and maybe keep Raditz around. MasakoX kind of made him lame by turning him into a boring Vegeta clone who quips, but on paper, he's really interesting because Raditz was a genuinely mediocre Saiyan. His official PL is 1,500 which is extremely low for a Saiyan adult, and just barely above a Saibaman (1,200).

I remember when Tuffle Quest was running on /tg/, Raditz got humiliated upon arriving on Earth, learned his brother was both a filthy Tufflefucker and yet the Legendary Super Saiyan, came to understand that Saiyans were assholes and Vegeta's "Saiyan pride" is bullshit, ended up with Suno and had a son with her. He ironically even ended up training under Piccolo and got hired on by the Galactic Patrol (where he's mildly disgruntled by getting outshone by Merus like Jaco). I won't follow the exact same path, but I liked the character arc of Raditz realizing that Vegeta's beliefs are a lie and he carves his own path with his own hard work.

>>579960715
>came to understand that Saiyans were assholes and Vegeta's "Saiyan pride" is bullshit
The mark of a proper fanfic writer is to understand that modern saiyans(sans goku) are rat bastard cowards and dont give a fuck about a fight as much as they just like kicking the shit out of someone

>>579961003
I liked the posts analyzing that Gohan was actually a psycho. Bro doesn't like to fight but sure enjoys getting high on power.

>>579958317
I think the only thing Daima 4 has over GT 4 is fight animation.

>>579961003
Raditz and Nappa are basically your 'average' saiyan in behavior and temper. Vegeta is particularly evil for a saiyan and Goku is how a saiyan SHOULD be.

>>579958317
Daima, I want the monkey arms.

>>579961568
I know Vegeta is generally extra sadistic, but Raditz and Nappa are plenty cowardly all on their own. Nappa throws an insane shitfit the second someone stronger than him shows up and attempts to go after Krillin and Gohan the second it's shown he really can't beat Goku. Raditz pleads for his life the second Piccolo and Goku best him and immediately goes back to what he was doing like the RAT he is. Make no mistake I enjoy this, I deeply enjoy the kind of "barbarian decadence" Saiyans have created. They see no reason to improve as long as Freiza can just throw them at unattended toddlers to maul like the attack dogs they are. Even before Frieza blew up the planet this still seemed to really be the case.

>>579961843
>but Raditz and Nappa are plenty cowardly all on their own.
Well yeah, I was agreeing. My point was often that people hyperfocus on Goku, Vegeta and Broly when it come to Saiyans when those three are explicitely NOT how saiyans were and the actual exemples of the 'average saiyan' we saw were Nappa and Raditz (I guess kinda Paragus but even he seems a bit of an outlier, he shows more care for Broly than even Bardock did with Goku, even if in a flawed form).

>>579962092
I think it's generally just because of the aesthetics of the cool conquering space barbarian empire that people tend to look past of all of the flaws of saiyans as a species. The series makes it VERY clear that saiyans in general will kind of bitch out the second that they face any kind of real adversity and have no idea how to really deal with it. (Vegeta was able to hold out the longest during namek saga due to honestly luck but that ran out against frieza and he immediately gave up) But Goku is cool and honorable and doesn't give up so people just backport Goku onto every Saiyan and now instead of rats you have the cool and epic space monkey viltrumite empire

>>579962471
To be fair, Viltrumites have the same issue. The entire species folded the moment they discovered what a hug was. Mark's dad, Conquest, Mark himself and Thragg were massive outliers.

>>579961843
Personally I quite like the idea in side media that Raditz did actually value/like Goku but has no idea how to express that, shame Raditz is permanently dead

>>579962668
True, but at the very least Viltrumites can handle adversity without folding. Conquest is a lot closer to how people think saiyans are compared to how they actually are

>>579962471
>(Vegeta was able to hold out the longest during namek saga due to honestly luck but that ran out against frieza and he immediately gave up)
Vegeta also had the advantage of being on a power high from his zenkai on earth and having the carrot of immortality just in front of him to chase. He still folded the second the Ginyus showed up and then outright gave up when he hit a wall he couldn't cheese.
>>579962896
True, Saiyans can brush off kindness a lot easier than Viltrumites can (If Thragg came up with the Sky Child program, the race would have been done before the show even started) but Viltrumites can take adversity better.
Which is funny because a big point of DB is that Saiyans DON'T thrive in constant adversity and slaughter, peace does A LOT for a saiyan's growth. Just look at Earth Saiyans and Sadala Saiyans, blowing up their own planet and becoming space murder hobos did the U7 saiyans no good.

>>579962810
Raditz sure as fuck gave Goku more room than Nappa or Vegeta would have, they would have killed Goku the moment he said no while Raditz at least attempted to force his hand first.

>>579961843
There's something about the Saiyan arc I really love. It did the "powerful aliens comes down to the unknown Earth and were genuinely surprised/shaken that humans could actually stand up to them" thing. I know the Z Warriors weren't all humans, but their martial arts were, mostly.

>>579963158
>Which is funny because a big point of DB is that Saiyans DON'T thrive in constant adversity and slaughter
The mechanics of Zenkai can largely only benefit Saiyans as long as they have someone else looking out for them to drag their broken body out of the fire and patch them up. When everyone is out for themselves and doesn't care the entire species stagnates

>>579963521
>The mechanics of Zenkai can largely only benefit Saiyans as long as they have someone else looking out for them to drag their broken body out of the fire and patch them up.
Which is kinda why I like the idea of Bardock and Gine being stronger than they should because Bardock kept pulling teammates out of the fire (I think Toriyama confirmed that's something he did) while Gine kept getting her ass pulled out of the fire due to getting hurt because she got distracted by a puppy while fighting or something so they Zenkai maxed.
>When everyone is out for themselves and doesn't care the entire species stagnates
And Vegeta take it a step further where he'll just personally kill the wounded without even letting them just crawl to the nearest healing pod (but HE will crawl to the nearest healing pod if he get his ass beat)

Vegeta was SUCH a bitch and rat bastard himself until that got beaten out of him repeatedly when you think about it.

>>579961843
>Nappa are plenty cowardly all on their own. Nappa throws an insane shitfit the second someone stronger than him shows up
Unrelated but that's part of why I like Sai's depiction of Kakarot so much, even in those swapped circumstances, Goku is STILL dragging those around him up so instead of losing his shit or submitting to Vegeta, Nappa goes 'Fuck you. Watch me, Kakarot, I'm going down swinging like a man!'.

>>579963932
I like to think that Roshi could sense the latent rat potential within Goku as a Saiyan and decided he had to beat him out of it in the 21st budokai but it was luckily a misplaced fear. It seems that whatever genetic mutation that creates the legendary super saiyan seems to remove all rat potential at birth as Broly is just completely chill. He needs to be studied

>>579964254
>I like to think that Roshi could sense the latent rat potential within Goku as a Saiyan and decided he had to beat him out of it in the 21st budokai but it was luckily a misplaced fear.
Goku had rat potential (Complimentary, cleverness, Zodiac Rat) while Saiyans are rats (derogatory, sewer rats) and Roshi momentarily mixed up the two.
>It seems that whatever genetic mutation that creates the legendary super saiyan seems to remove all rat potential at birth as Broly is just completely chill. He needs to be studied
According to Toriyama, Broly is like Goku: a 'Pure' Saiyan, AKA what Saiyans SHOULD be but fucked up.

>>579964254
>>579964874
Yamoshi running out of SSJ just as the evil saiyans swarmed him was basically the Saiyan Bad End / Bad Timeline that just condemned the race to be not even a shadow of what it could have been, like you'd see in very depressing Marvel what ifs where the entire human race just pissed away it's chance at greateness and wonder.

A question I would like to present to the thread is do you consider Future Trunks a Rat? Think totally agnostic of the morality or justification of his actions, just the actions themselves. Would they qualify him for the halls of Saiyan Ratdom? If so it would kind of lend credence to that one anon's theory that heavy adversity kind of lends itself to this behavior and tends to fuck over saiyan potential long tem

>>579965086
I wouldn't call him a rat (he keep swinging swinging and trying even when completely outmatched, he never collapse like say Vegeta against Freeza). I'd call him a Survivor, which is like the Good aligned equivalent of the Rat (Rat is neutral evil, Survivor is neutral good basically).
But that run into the same issue of stunting your potential, since you're already playing in hard mode, you tend to deal with all situations you can handle as easily as possible, which stunt the growth you're getting and stop you from being able to close the gap with whatever threat is forcing you on Hard Mode. It's not for nothing that Trunks's growth literally explode once he has proper guidance AND SOME PEACE to let said growth settle in (Also make sense with Future Trunks' own growth between the androids being dealt with and Black showing up).

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>>579960715
>I remember hearing a theory a while ago that the reason Trunks used a sword at the beginning was because he needed to prevent them from grabbing him and draining his energy. I would like to bring back Goku's power pole
This official art actually supports that theory too, as Goku is using nyoibo despite it never even showing up in Androids arc at any point.

>>579963736
>because Bardock kept pulling teammates out of the fire (I think Toriyama confirmed that's something he did)
IIRC, it's only really confirmed he did that with Gine, but DBS Broly showed plenty of saiyans liked him since Bardock seemed to be particularly nice, for a saiyan at least.

>>579965086
The only really "rat" thing he does is giving up when Cell shoved his stupidity on his face. Otherwise he tried against (present) 18 and got rekt.

>>579965687
I think I'll give less rat points to Trunks here than Vegeta's equivilant to Freiza because at least he took his defeat with grace and didn't cry

>>579960715
>>579965651
In relation to the weapon theory, I always thought that the fights in the Android saga were planned to be a lot more grappling based, just looking at Vegeta vs 19 and Gero vs Piccolo and how their absorbption worked.

>>579965817
He also didn't go in mega smug and talking himself up, dude was legit just focused on the objective and doing his best.

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>>579965086
Trunks is not a proper warrior, but he's also not a rat. If something is stronger than he is he tries to face it, even if it could get him killed. Him giving up against Cell was his lowest moment, but by that point he just knew there was no chance at winning because Cell showed him just how retarded he was.

>>579965865
Cell's 1st form is basically a retooled version of the original plot. Absorbing a few cities let him become stronger than Kamiccolo. It makes more sense than 16/17/18 just being stronger than the emperor of the universe from the get go.

I also think we should give Trunks props for not killing 18 when he had the chance and instead telling her to run It may have not been the optimal thing to do but it was the right thing to do (in the sense of true saiyan philosophy)

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>>579966001
He did say "I'll win" before fighting Cell, but in that case it was simple confidence in his own power (He said the same thing against Freeza), not the same level of arrogance Vegeta tends to have, or that even Goku had when facing Popo.

>>579966213
19 and 20 were also stronger than the Emperor of the Universe from the get go.
>>579966239
It was the right thing to do in general, as Krillin said she's innocent in that timeline. Trunks is pretty softhearted too.

>>579966239
After getting his ass kicked by 18 and surviving, he realized the androids weren't evil compared to his future. I find funny Kami just telling Piccolo off and noting they antagonized 17 and 18 first (Vegeta being the only one that actually killed an innocent during the fight).

>>579966213
It even makes sense with the androids Ki not being able to be sensed. That plot point kind of goes nowhere in the normal plot but fits right in if a reverse namek arc is pulled and the main villian is the rat they have to sniff out as opposed to the heroes

>>579966458
>but in that case it was simple confidence in his own power
That and as he said, he had an actual reason to believe it, he was just 'tricked' by his own ki sensing.

>>579966506
>19 and 20 were also stronger than the Emperor of the Universe from the get go.
No. Goku had his heart virus kicking in even before transforming and Piccolo first pretended to get KO'd and later kicked Gero's ass despite the energy he had absorbed.

Honestly with some tweaking, I think Gero being the main villian of androids saga can be great. Shit if you make Gero a bio android from the start (shittier one compared to 17 and 18) you can have it that he slowly regains his youth as he absorbs more and more people. Kind of a bit like Moro or DKP

>>579966701
>No.
Yes. Trunks could cut a stronger Freeza into pieces with no issue and Goku could block the same sword with one finger and yet couldn't just one punch 19 even before the virus kicked in.
Gero would have slapped 100% Freeza's head off like it was paper
>Piccolo
Dude trained with Goku and Gohan for 3 years.

>>579966919
>yet couldn't just one punch 19 even before the virus kicked in.
The virus kicked in before the fight started, anon. They note that Goku is severely winded just flying from the city

>>579967042
Goku wasn't instantly at 1% power right from the start of the fight, anon.

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>>579966509
>he realized the androids weren't evil compared to his future.
He didn't really believe it because he was dismissive of the notion when Krillin brings it up, and later he doesn't want Krillin to save 16. Trunks has a lot of understandable prejudice towards the androids, even if it should be obvious from the get go they're not as bad (Since the same circumstances happened yet they spared everyone). In the manga he wasn't even near 18 when Cell was around (He just screamed at get to get away) and he was otherwise focused on preventing Cell from absorbing her.

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>>579966919
>even before the virus kicked in.
Again, Goku was afflicted by the virus BEFORE he even transformed.
>Dude trained with Goku and Gohan for 3 years.
Yes. And Piccolo easily kicked Gero's ass when he faced him directly and wasn't jumped from behind or pretended an eye beam greatly hurt him to get close to Goku.

>>579967136
Even then, 19 is extremely weak. Vegeta essentially oneshots him with big bang attack despite being severely weakened after 19 absorbed a lot of his energy. Even before that vegeta was clobbering him with no difficulty whatsoever

>>579967302
>Again, Goku was afflicted by the virus BEFORE he even transformed.
We're talking when Goku was literally having a heart attack midfight.
>Yes.
So that doesn't mean Gero was weaker than Freeza, a dude weaker than both people Piccolo trained with.

>>579967428
>Even then, 19 is extremely weak.
By Android Saga standard where a Goku that could no sell an attack that one shotted a stronger Freeza just trained for 3 years. Not by Namek Saga where the strongest dude is weaker than Mecha Freeza.

>>579963158
what Vegeta says is a "lust for battle" could more accurately be described as 'lust for sealclubbing'.

>>579967473
>So that doesn't mean Gero was weaker than Freeza, a dude weaker than both people Piccolo trained with.
Piccolo managed to best him even after Gero absorbed a bunch of his energy. Also this >>579967428

>>579967473
I don't think we can really say Gohan is any stronger than Frieza by this point, granted he does essentially nothing during the androids part of the saga

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>>579966213
>Cell's 1st form is basically a retooled version of the original plot. Absorbing a few cities let him become stronger than Kamiccolo.
While it's hard to say when exactly Toriyama made Gero not be the main villain anymore, I fully believe pic related was still in the plans for Gero to be the main villain. Gero's and Cell's debuts are even pretty similar (Goes on a rampage, someone stronger shows up, they run away), so I think even when Gero was planned to be the main villain, Toriyama had planned to make Gero run away because him and 19 would still be too weak because they didn't absorb anyone's energy besides Yamcha's. It's even a reversal of how Goku's fight with Tao Pai Pai and Piccolo Daimaoh went (Goku fights, loses, returns stronger) with the villain being allowed to lose and return stronger, which's basically what Cell was doing until he went perfect.

>>579964081
my favourite part of that whole doujin was how Kakarot was giving Vegeta tips during their fight, because what he wanted wasn't "to conquer and kill the weak" but to be truly challenged. He truly loved fighting, and saw the spark of talent in Vegeta.

>>579967648
To be fair, everyone who isn't an earthling seems to just be really into seal clubbing. Even Cell throws a Nappa tier shitfit when it's revealed he cant beat Gohan

>>579967656
>Piccolo managed to best him even after Gero absorbed a bunch of his energy.
So?
>>579967703
I mean he probably was, otherwise why would Goku say he's been growing insanely fast and want to take him in the ROSAT to realize that potential if he wasn't at least keeping up with Goku's gains up to that point?

>>579967648
Pretty much. I'd even say specifically BABY sealclubbing.
>>579967841
My favorite part is both that and how Kakarot kept letting Vegeta get power ups he had neglected to get so far out of arrogance and STILL won instead of having a forced loss, showing that challenging yourself like that is the right path instead of just self defeating stupidity.

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>>579966701
>Piccolo first pretended to get KO'd and later kicked Gero's ass despite the energy he had absorbed.
tbf, Piccolo's jump in power was immense. Krillin even compares it to a super saiyan, even if he's still weaker than Goku/Vegeta/Trunks.

>>579967923
>So?
19 and 20 aren't Frieza-tier. They got the jump on Goku because of his heart virus and Piccolo from behind. A Piccolo without being taken off-guard easily beat Gero in return despite the energy Gero absorbed added in and Vegeta easily beat 19 despite the energy he took from Goku and himself. They were meant to become stronger through constant absorptions compared to 16/17/18 which are way stronger just because.

>>579967885
that only really happens after he spits up 18. you could put that down to him no longer being 'perfect'. once he comes back as super perfect he goes right back to his affably evil perfect personality. he even gives Gohan time to try and defend himself whilst cooking his solar kamehameha.

>>579968437
>19 and 20 aren't Frieza-tier.
Yeah, they are 'One Shot a stronger Freeza' tier.
>They got the jump on Goku because of his heart virus
Goku wasn't so weakened by the heart virus that he was instantly weaker than he was prior to 3 years of training.
>and Piccolo from behind
A Piccolo vastly stronger than Freeza too so that doesn't matter.
>They were meant to become stronger
Yeah, from their base that was above Freeza, Toriyama NEVER planned to have any antagonist start out weaker than the previous one, even Babidi had Dabura who was Cell-tier at minimum with an extra spit trick.

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>>579968581
Nah he goes postal even before he spits up 18 and he does his stupid ass grade 3 thing to try and kill Gohan

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>>579966613
>That plot point kind of goes nowhere in the normal plot
It was there when Gero escaped and had to get to his lab. He's specifically so hard to track because he has no ki. Cell pretty much does the same thing by simply knowing how to repress his ki once Piccolo is close.

>>579968595
>Toriyama NEVER planned to have any antagonist start out weaker than the previous one
That seemed to be the idea when 19 and 20 were THE main villians. Otherwise it breaks the setting if a guy with a few scraps could create robots stronger than Frieza from the beginning (even more ridiculous in Super Hero). Absorption was a way to justify that without having to suspend your disbelief that much until 16/17/18 were included. Cell even goes back to that original idea.

>>579968937
True, I was more thinking about 16,17, and 18 also having it. Which I don't think is ever that important. I guess it's kind of there when Cell cant sense 18 and has to start blowing up islands to lure her out.

>>579968740
he could've nuked the planet at any point and killed everyone, including Gohan. he wanted to beat Gohan clean.

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>>579966919
>and yet couldn't just one punch 19 even before the virus kicked in.
Goku was so weak that Piccolo immediately notices it once he transforms. I do think 19 and Gero are stronger than Freeza, but Heart Virus is still a massive debuff.

>>579969090
>That seemed to be the idea when 19 and 20 were THE main villians.
Not really, again we see them right away fighting people who'd one shot Freeza without getting one shotted.
Toriyama didn't introduce a stronger Freeza getting fodderize just to say the new threats are weaker, that's needlessly complicated.

>>579969104
Yes that's true but I was describing a "nappa tier shitfit" wherein Nappa goes blind with rage when he realizes he can't just step on Goku and kill him instantly. Cell does something similar to that against Gohan and only endevours to blow up the planet when he realizes he has truly nothing up his sleeve anymore. Which is consistent with most seal clubbers. I'm of the opinion that the only Z villian that isn't in the seal clubber club is Kid Buu. He doesn't really give a shit who he's fighting he just wants to fight

>>579969303
>but Heart Virus is still a massive debuff.
It is but not so much Goku would be weaker than before 3 years of training, let alone weaker than when he was on Namek.

>>579969360
>Toriyama didn't introduce a stronger Freeza getting fodderize just to say the new threats are weaker, that's needlessly complicated.
That's exactly what happened with Cell. He was weaker than 17 and 18, he absorbed tons of people to get stronger, and kicked Piccolo's ass.

>>579969718
Notice how 17 and 18 didn't get fodderized before Cell got stronger than them?

I actually think that it makes sense that 19 and 20 were always meant to be comparable to or stronger than Freiza as it explains why the Z fighters die so easily to them without Goku

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>>579969090
>Otherwise it breaks the setting if a guy with a few scraps could create robots stronger than Frieza from the beginning (even more ridiculous in Super Hero).
You mentioning Super Hero only supports the argument that 19 and Gero are stronger than Freeza. Toriyama can casually break his own setting like that because of the never ending escalation. In Namek we have Cui, who's said to be as strong as Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and Zarbon and Dodoria who are both stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta, and they're mere underlings, and this is before Ginyu Force shows up too. Biggest argument in the favor of "19 and Gero are weaker than Freeza" is this Piccolo line, but he never comments they're weaker than Freeza.

>>579956252
I'm more inclined to believe that Yamcha got several women pregnant out of wedlock as neither Z nor Super indicates that he settled down with anyone. While there's a possibility that one of Yamcha's children or grandchildren (if he had any) might have contributed to Brett's lineage, it's also pretty much confirmed that Brett is a direct descendant of Goku through Gohan and subsequently Pan's lineage due to the grain pun in his name that's associated with both Gohan (Rice) and Pan (Bread)

>>579970181
>In Namek we have Cui, who's said to be as strong as Saiyan Saga Vegeta
This shit is casually one of the biggest pieces of early vegeta slander and it's sad to me no one really talks about it. As much as vegeta boasts without great ape he's about as strong as just some guy

>>579970285
It's extra funny cause Cui isn't even an officer or anything, he's just a particularly strong soldier nobody really cares about. Nobody in the Freeza Force even really react to his death.

>>579969784
Piccolo can't get allowed to actually fodderize 17 because he would kill him right away to prevent Cell from winning; Trunks is allowed to cut Frieza in many parts and disintegrate him to look cool.
>>579969905
I just think they would gain the edge through absorptions, not being +Frieza tier right away.
>>579970181
I can buy some mooks from Frieza's army being stronger than/equal to Vegeta way more than the entire thing with Gero.

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>>579965865
>I always thought that the fights in the Android saga were planned to be a lot more grappling based, just looking at Vegeta vs 19 and Gero vs Piccolo and how their absorbption worked.
19 was also clearly trying to grab Goku before the Kamehameha. 19 and Gero rely way too much on brute force and surprising their opponents with absorption, and they completely fall apart the moment either one doesn't work.

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>>579970850
There's that one panel from Dodoria, but you could argue this is caring more about Vegeta's powerlevel than Cui specifically

>>579969428
my point was, yeah he was rattled, but he still had some semblance of fair play going. he didn't throw a full tantrum until after he spits up 18, which is when he decided to blow himself up as petty vengeance for losing.

>>579971204
To be fair I think the only guy who instantaneously goes for the planet cracking option the second they're the least bit threatened is Vegeta. And as we've established, Vegeta is King Rat, so that's fairly consistent.

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>>579970285
>As much as vegeta boasts without great ape he's about as strong as just some guy
Consequences of ever changing plans. Freeza is only hinted to exist after Vegeta is defeated, which makes pic related odd, since those are his own private thoughts, so Vegeta should know there are at least 8 people stronger than him (And that's without including other stronger beings like Avo, Cado, and Beerus).

>>579971143
That's why I said 'no one really react', it's not for nothing Dodoria react to the power level first (it's close to his after all), that's the important part.

>>579971405
Also Nappa calling Super Saiyans the concept of Saiyans breeding with other species.

>>579971743
To be fair that's not really that much of a retcon. No one knows what a super saiyan actually is until Goku achieves the form. The legend doesn't even imply it's a form as much as it is to be a title like a chosen one

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>>579969104
>>579971204
Anon, Cell tried to blow up Earth after Gohan hit him three times. Semi Perfect Cell's self destruct was his last desperate measure, but even as Perfect Cell he's not any different, he's just another baby sealclubber, and the circumstances of his kamehameha are pretty much identical to Vegeta's Galick Ho (Get overpowered, take a few hits, fly up, try to blow up the planet).

>>579971959
I blame Vegeta's cells for this behavior.

I'm so damn tired of Yhwach. Even Buu's regeneration was more fun than his nonsense.

>>579972164
It's so funny that to this day, even powerscalers can't agree on what his power even fucking does or how it works.

>>579972164
Regenerating villians are deeply unfun in my experience. Toriyama made it work somehow but I almost immediately hate it whenever it shows up in other media. Reverse Curse Technique is giga ass and sukuna spamming it (even if everyone else can spam it) sucked

>>579972375
Regenerating MCs are even worse sometime. Nothing worse than a whole fight being canceled by a 'Lol, didn't hurt' regen moment.

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>>579971847
>The legend doesn't even imply it's a form as much as it is to be a title like a chosen one
The legend also has the belief you have to be particularly ruthless as a saiyan, which's why Ginyu and Vegeta dismisses that Goku could have become it, so it's no wonder no saiyan became a super saiyan before Goku, as the rage of a pure heart makes it easier to achieve the form (Vegeta did pull that "My heart is pure evil" nonsense, but even that took 3 years of training after seeing Goku transform).

>>579972164
For me it's the HKs in One Piece. Toriyama's regen merchants were more entertaining.