>>583597383
To be fair only Sr. would need to get his name from the ship, Jr. could just be getting his name from Sr.

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>>583597252
>I forgot to remove two [Embed]

>>583598007
Shame on you

Why does 18 get two editions in a row, her greed sickens me

>>583598007
anon you just click on the downward arrow after the post number and click copy text

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>>583598379
I never saw that option there.

>>583590367
>>583591139
Actually why didn't *anyone* show up for the 24th?

>>583599250
No real point in it. The only people that care that much about fighting are Tien and Vegeta and neither are the type to suggest going to a tournament on their own. Shit, no one was gonna show up for the 25th either if Gohan wasn't browbeaten into it by Videl

>>583599250
No one cared. Gohan only participated in the 25th because Videl blackmailed him, then he told Bulma and Vegeta, then Goku apparently was eavesdropping at that exact moment and declared he would particiapte too, and then Gohan told everyone else but Tenshinhan who he couldn't find. It was a chain reaction.

>>583599404
I really don't believe Yamcha would retire from martial arts like Z says. I can see Krillin doing it at least hypothetically, but what house wife wants a husband weaker than them.
Though now that I think about it, the only person they can't contact is Goku, so the WMAT isn't important ever since they met Kami, they know there isn't a person on Earth strong enough to be worthwhile.

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>>583599250
Everyone kinda stopped caring about it. You can even argue they only showed up in the 23rd WT because of Piccolo. Although if there was no Piccolo around then Tenshinhan would want to go to the tournament to settle his score with Goku, I guess.

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Talking about the 25th Budokai, would Goku vs Gohan have been an interesting match as the finals had none of them left the tournament? We technically got that in Super but by that point the powergap was even more ridiculous.

>>583600431
Given Gohan requested no use of super saiyan and there's no way Gohan's getting all that mad against Goku, Goku just beats his ass fairly easily

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>>583598686
don't you use 4chanx or xt?

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>>583600552
The no super saiyan request would make it interesting when it comes Goku fighting 18 (A surprisingly rare matchup, even in games), and Gohan fighting Shin. Gohan did vaguely think to himself Kibito wasn't going to be easy (Although, later on it's shown base Gohan is much stronger than Kibito anyway, but there's still Shin)

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>>583600365
Two of the three non-Tien Z warriors both commit to training for the 23rd in fact in that page, and in the next page we see Krillin and Yamcha training. And all three of them don't know about Junior. Chiaotzu also doesn't seem to have trained particularly hard for the 23rd, and Chiaotzu retires after the Sayian Saga alongside Yajirobe.

>>583601174
Shin is weaker than base Vegeta, but I suppose so is base Gohan.

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>>583601175
Oh right, Shenlong only declared Goku will be participating in the next tournament but didn't mention Piccolo. I dunno why I suddenly thought they knew of Piccolo since later on Goku explains to everyone what's going on...

>>583601572
And in fact Tien is the only one able to recognize Junior as related to Senior despite Yamcha and Chiaotzu also seeing Senior.

>>583599250
Because it's just bullying people infinitely weaker than themselves unless they're fighting each others and they don't need a tournament for that. All they'd be doing is rob some young hopeful's shot at the title.

>>583600431
>would Goku vs Gohan have been an interesting match as the finals had none of them left the tournament?
Not really because Goku outskill Gohan tremendously at equal power and Gohan doesn't have the Vegeta edgy favoritism to ignore that metric.

>>583601174
>(Although, later on it's shown base Gohan is much stronger than Kibito anyway,
That's because Gohan was talking about his Tournament level, not his 'Real Battle' level. Goku did something similar in a previous tournament.

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Jr. has Sr. memories, I don't know how Jr. could know this otherwise

>>583605513
Jr IS Sr, it's a reincarnation type deal.

>>583606054
Yeah but reincarnations don't keep their memories generally. Also I don't know what that means when Sr. speaks to Jr. because they both existed at the same time for a few seconds.

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Three pages apart what did Kami mean by this?

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>>583606490
I asked the question but I think it's obvious Toriyama wanted to change/was forced to change the implied stakes between Chapter 188 and 189. So the three spectator characters than sense Ki all end up saying different things, and Kami ends up disagreeing with himself.

>>583606490
im not sure what you're implying

>>583606243
>Also I don't know what that means when Sr. speaks to Jr. because they both existed at the same time for a few seconds.
Soul transferred to the egg when he died.

>>583606490
that old prick should just STFU he lost his chance

>>583607460
Either Kami can help or he can't. Piccolo will get tired and weaker from here on out, there isn't a chance that is being lost.

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By the way such a funny line coming from Goku who accepted and needed help to defeat, Raditz, Vegeta and Buu, and just couldn't beat Cell or 19 at all. Also Goku didn't beat Piccolo Sr in a fair 1v1 either.

>>583609315
To be fair he didn't accept help against 19, Vegeta came in unsolicited

>>583609521
I mean if nobody helped Goku would have died. He just doesn't have this fair 1v1 honor mindset ever again, and he loses most of the 1v1s he ends up taking/is forced to take.
The only time it's debatable other than with people way below his level is with Frieza post transformation, but he never would have made it to the transformation if not for Piccolo.

>>583611003
Just take it that goku doesn't like seal clubbing. he wont accept Kami's help against an opponent he has a pretty decent chance of beating, but he would accept that help if he's just about to get his shit pushed in with zero opposition

Sex with loli Bejita.

I can't believe this retardation I'm reading. Goku wants to legitimately win the tournament, not kill Piccolo. That's why he celebrates when Piccolo lands outside the ring. None of the fights in Z occur in this framing

>>583617936
Z doesn't exactly have very many tournament arcs. Also I don't really think Goku considered majunior a serious danger. Goku straight tanked his strongest attacked and proceeded to kick his ass

>>583617936
That's not how Goku framed it anon, there is a reason I didn't send in the screenshot of Goku refusing Tiens help, because he says frames it entirely diffrently.

>>583620946
Anon you are mentally disabled and should kill yourself

>>583616096
That's nonsensical

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How far is he making it in Super?

>>583627473
One-tapped by Beerus

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Bwo

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>>583627725
So is Raditz mentally disabled, does it come from Gine or Bardock? Gohan is literally 4 years old and is the third strongest Saiyan alive, he is on the podium and Raditz is going to kill him?

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>>583627473
Why did GT have him use a different gi? The turquoise from the EoZ one would have matched well with Super Saiyan.

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>>583628240
idk ask Toriyama

>Hear Tuffle Quest moved to another website and want to give it a chance
>Check it out
>First thing I seen is a wall of text crying about Malfoid and banning the term 'foid'
Why are you faggots always linking the tranniest websites on Earth? Even Reddit didn't ban the term.

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>>583628002
Is Tien mentally disabled? Why the Saibamen be Sayians?

Better than the granny.

https://x.com/kirina_03/status/2107348575114121586

>>583528645
How come nobody corrected me. Tien did fight a Saibaman how did I forgor.

>>583631935
That's not really much of an achievement. Even Yamcha could have beaten his saibaman if he wasn't a dumbass. "At least he isn't Chaitzou" ass achievement

>>583632034
Gohan almost lost to a Saibaman

>>583632081
Gohan makes up for it later, Tien does not

>>583630854
It's Spacebattles, isn't it?

>>583627473
Solos Beerus

>>583627473
How do you even powerscale GT Goku. The only frame of reference he has is he's stronger than a lot of his old enemies by a lot, but other than that it's just kinda shrug

>>583634058
Guidebook says Super Vegito > Super Saiyan 4 Goku
Power scaling is simple

>>583630854
>Wants gender bender tranny shit

>>583627473
Not very. Weaker than BoG Goku.

The degenerates here unironically want female Goku. Even 4chan is infected by it, sadly.

I want female beerus

That's both tranny AND furry! You're disgusting!

Beerus has no fur

You're going to be punished for your reliance on semantics.

Punished by female Beerus I hope

>>583628240
>>583630189
It's probably supposed to be the same one but Toriyama coloured it differently, and now they have universally diverged

>>583634058
Narrative good faith powerscaling is impossible, scene by scene autistic powerscaling is possible and has extremely high yields for GT because of Toei logic where characters will get randomly schizophrenically stronger or weaker from one moment to the next. GT Goku struggles to lift a building without SSJ4, but for powerscaling you only count the positive inconsistencies, and that way you end up with a Multiversal Goku who is competitive with DBS at least until the end of the ToP.

>>583637980
Your narrative and the events that happen in scenes should not oppose each-other they should support each-other. In fact some might say that the narrative is the throughline found across scenes not it's own idea pulled from your imagination or twitter.

>>583638267
GT's narrative is completely unconcerned with powerscaling and provides no numbers or character comparisons to measure strength with. Goku is the only relevant combatant for 99% of the show and is never compared to anyone else, it is impossible to say how strong he is or how much stronger he gets by himself throughout the series, besides "significantly above EoZ". Only by using autistic calcs and picking and choosing the previously mentioned inconsistencies can you begin to formulate something tangible here.

It's way more simple than that. Majin Buu is used as a benchmark in early GT, General Dildo is comparable to him, stronger by a noticeable amount. Vegito is used as a benchmark in Battle of Gods, Beerus is vastly stronger than him when not even trying. Even the most generous way to take that has Super starting out on a higher tier of power.

>>583638768
That tells us nothing about Goku. Rilld is not a threat to GT Goku, he can only push him to use SSJ1.

>>583627473
Manga or anime? In the anime everyone is stronger than BoG SSG somehow, even base Cabba. In the manga barely anyone reaches SSG tier so he does way better.
Oh well, doesn't matter really, Golden Freeza kills him in both continuities, if Beerus doesn't do it first after being disappointed he can't become a god.

>>583638768
General RILDO, fuck.

>>583638851
Its pretty easy to understand. Even if GT Goku were as strong as Vegito, he would be vastly weaker than anyone important after the God ritual.

>>583639204
It's essentially impossible to know how much of a power boost super saiyan 4 is compared to blue, though. There's nothing really all that directly comparable between the series

>>583639204
I agree that GT should be weaker than Super, but what I am saying is that GT Goku is virtually impossible to scale in good faith. Goku is vastly stronger than Rilld, but we can only guess how much. Baby is the first antagonist to be definitely stronger than Goku, but how much stronger is he than Rilld? How big of a multiplier would SSJ4 need to be to surpass Super Baby 2? It is impossible to say, the writers of GT did not pay any mind to those questions. By comparison, the original DB manga is littered with statements comparing characters to each other, and numbers like Kaioken and "I am only using half my power", etc. Toriyama is very concerned with powerscaling, Toei is not, Toei only runs on vibes.

>>583638768
>>583639204
I love you anon, you always put a smile on my face. Good bless that shitty GT character for making your posts so funny.

>>583633321
Yup, never used that site before or heard of it and never will.
>>583634556
>No u
Go back to your containement shithole.

Super is so shit, random squibs from shit universes are stronger than the second and third strongest warriors in U7 to ever live using divine technology to become a warrior casually able to destroy the previous strongest warrior.

>>583639494
The gods are not picking anyone but the strongest warriors from their own universes to represent them in an existential battle, anon. Even accounting for that, U7 is evidently one of the stronger universes judging by their performance in the ToP.

>>583638526
You now remember the weird sewer fight where it doesn't even make sense as a DB fight since Ki sensing exist.

>>583639494
Gero built robots capable of manhandling super saiyans in a cave with a box of scraps

>>583639393
GT Perfect Files compare it to Vegetto from Z (without mentioning transformation) and it unironically works with the official multipliers and the fact the same guide says SS4 has the heart of a human and the power of the golden Ozaru
>Ozaru is base x10
>SS is base x50
>SS2 is base x100
>SS3 is base x400
>so Golden Ozaru and SS4 should be base x500 (10x50 = 500)
>if you add Goku's strongest form (base x400) to Vegeta's (base x200) you get a warrior stronger than the average of Goku and Vegeta bases x500)
Even without going this far with math and theorizing, if Vegetto (no form specified) in the Buu arc is comparable to a SS4 and Vegetto (going all out) in BoG wouldn't be worth a shot against Beerus but SSG is, then SS4 can't even dream of touching Blue, it's a redhead victim form.

>>583631741
Sounds like a mix of Trunks and Genos

>>583639991
>>if you add Goku's strongest form (base x400) to Vegeta's (base x200) you get a warrior stronger than the average of Goku and Vegeta bases x500)
I don't remember fusion math ever being stated to work like this, though. Isn't it just Base x Base? Where's the idea of it being from smashing the multipliers of the strongest forms together coming from

>>583639393
>>583639427
Given how much stronger God is than base and how Blue is even stronger than that, and how Blue Evolution and Kaioken are a thing, even if 4 were a dozen times stronger than 3 it wouldn't make that much a difference in the long run. You already have a Goku that's debatable if he's even close to Vegito under the best of circumstances, there's nothing to fully suggest 4 being THAT much stronger than 3. This is also ignoring the only other things that could make any comparative scaling like guidebook statements.

>>583639447
It is a genuine typo, I don't mean to do it.

>>583640348
>there's nothing to fully suggest 4 being THAT much stronger than 3
It is possible it is since SSJ3 Goku gets bitched by Baby but then SSJ4 bitches Baby. But as I said previously, it is impossible to actually quantify how big of a gap any of that is, since we have no other points of reference to compare Goku and Baby to. They are basically floating in a vacuum, who knows what the distances are?
Whichever way you cut it, GT Goku is a fraud since he fails to lift a building with full effort which is far worse than the off guard gunshots in Super.

how do I keep my autism from shitting on a21 secondaries? all they do is coom post about her but never play her game. i have never seen a a21fag every na pc ec me

>>583639847
So? One guy personally inspired by the at the time ~5th strongest warrior in the universe, after 11+ years of effort creating three warriors surpassing him is a problem? Gero's strength is tethered to Goku's.
>>583639606
Sure but all the universes are the same size, Buu was the greatest warrior in U7 and Basil would one shot him.
>but muh Saibaman
NORTH GALAXY IS BIGGER THAN EARTH BY A LOT!!!

>>583640689
>Gero's strength is tethered to Goku's.
Except Gero explicitly stopped watching Goku after saiyan saga. He made those super saiyan pubstomping cyborgs+ 16 to fight someone who he expected to be maybe androids saga yamcha level at most

>>583639486
Go enjoy your Tranny Potter rewrite elsewhere.

>>583640689
The universes are presumably the same size in diameter but they may differ drastically in population. In any case there are plenty of shitters in the ToP.
One idea I want to throw out is that from our perspective, U7's power levels began rising drastically after Beerus woke up, it's possible that's the deciding factor and universes with more hands-on Hakaishin are generally stronger like that.

>>583640781
He predicted Kaioken Goku's growth, pretty well since 20 and 19 should be able to beat KKx20 Goku individually.
Anyway the Cell Saga is about Goku's ability to inspire others to rise above him, and that's what happened.

>>583641151
I wasn't talking about 19 and 20, though (they're both actually weaker than super saiyans) I was talking about 16, 17, and 18
>Anyway the Cell Saga is about Goku's ability to inspire others to rise above him, and that's what happened.
Well yeah and that's an interesting theme but that doesn't really prevent those android powerlevels from being nonsensical. This isn't chainsawman you can't just wave themes and such around to negate narrative level criticisms

>>583641360
16, 17 and 18 being unnecessarily strong and Gero being comfortable shelving them for that reason is actually part of the plot though

>>583641532
He shelved 17 and 18 because he couldn't control them, though. It's never actually elaborated on (at least in the story) why Gero never used 16, just that he was a failure for unspecified reasons. That aside that's not actually the angle I was criticizing the narrative for. It's that it never gives a particular reason as to why they're that strong. It implies it was going to, given Trunks said they're seemingly way stronger for some reason but that's never answered. (unless you buy the theory that was because 17 was only ever using half of his power like against Gohan)

>>583630854
Hey wait a second I just looked at the thread there and the only one bringing up the Malfoid thing in it is an unironic "They/Them" comparing one of the characters to it. Not even bitching about it, that poster even calls Malfoid "cute." What are you trying to pull here?

>>583641798
>He shelved 17 and 18 because he couldn't control them
And he nevertheless deployed them when their power became necessary after all. Power is the first concern, and #16-18 were very much stronger than necessary, which is why Gero did not aim as excessively high with the subsequent models, including his own body.
>it never gives a particular reason as to why they're that strong
Dr. Gero is a genius.
>unless you buy the theory that was because 17 was only ever using half of his power like against Gohan
Yes, that is the answer. Perhaps Toriyama originally intended something else by that line, but he ultimately drew that chapter to solve the inconsistency. I believe that is the only purpose of the special chapter, it does little else narratively except set up a scenario where #17 reveals he is twice as strong as previously believed while Trunks is unconscious

>>583641360
This is whataboutism. If I say the Cell Saga isn't properly justified does this save U6vU7 and the ToP somehow?

>>583642230
It implies either a double standard or that you do not particularly like Dragon Ball if you shit on so much of it which makes it undesirable to discuss it with you

>>583642013
>Dr. Gero is a genius.
Well yes, but Gero/20 as well as Cell stretch the limits of the suspension of disbelief much less. Both are actually pretty weak and require a lot of outside resources in order to challenge the protagonists through various means of absorbtion, as well as cell's strength coming directly from a lot of the best parts of the biology of the warriors he's made out of. The other androids are just kinda strong because they are. Frieza and his dudes can get away with that because of the combination of being aliens and accessories to the emperor of the universe. Gero's just kind of a guy so their strength feels like it lacks the proper presentation, comparatively.

>>583642402
Their power comes from an infinite energy source. That Gero was able to build such a thing is far more impressive than the power levels here. And in the same arc Bulma builds a deadass functional time machine, why are the power levels the thing where we draw the line?