We Are Back Edition- Gekishin Squadra is getting a major overhaul- Xenoverse 3 announced- Xenoverse 2 final DLC is out- Dragon Ball Super: Beerus anime premieres in Japan on October 11, 2026.- FighterZ new balance update is out• XENOVERSE 3 - TGS TRAILERhttps://youtu.be/XIAhLfXH64U• XENOVERSE 2 - FUTURE SAGA CH4 LAUNCH TRAILERhttps://youtu.be/DFWpzSFTJco• SPARKING ZERO - SUPER LIMIT BREAKING NEO DLC SHOWCASEhttps://youtu.be/-yVuL6K1oMI• GEKISHIN SQUADRA - SSGSS VEGETAhttps://youtu.be/GNR6FB_Vr4k• KAKAROT - DAIMA PT2 LAUNCH TRAILERhttps://youtu.be/ZY6OAh_7KYw• FIGHTERZ - GOKU SS4 DAIMA TRAILERhttps://youtu.be/qTfxD54fMHs>Useful links:https://rentry.org/dft79XV2 news:>Future Saga Chapter 4 is outSDBH News/Resources:>SDBH has ended...We are all Heroes! RIP 05/09/24>SDBH Database: https://www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh_mm/cardlist/>Deck Autism: https://rentry.org/sdbhdecklistDBSDV news:>The 11th set has released>God Rares: SSB Goku, SSB Vegetto, Corrupted Zamasu, Beast Gohan, Orange Piccolo, Cell Max, Xeno Vegeta, SS3 Xeno Bardock>Reflect Break Cards: SSG Goku, Ultimate Gohan, SSR Trunks, Piccolo, Whis>Modes based on Goku Black and DBS Superhero arcs>2nd Anniversary soon>Card List: https://www.dbsdv.com/cardlist/?series=598010>HOW TO FIND YOUR XENOVERSE 2 SAVE ON STEAM guide:steam > userdata > [your steam id] > 323470 > remote > DBXV21DBXV2.sav should be there, which is your savefileIf you wish to delete it to try reimporting or for other reasons, disable steamcloud on both Xenoverse 1 and 2 first.Kakarot news:>Daima DLC Pt2 launched on January 15thThe Breakers news:>Season 9 launched with DBZ Broly Raider>XV Booru: Upload drawfaggotry herehttp://xenoverse.booru.org/Rest in Peace, Akira Toriyama (3/1/2024)Thank youLAST TIME ON /dbg/: >>583837160
>>584047004>Goku doesn't have much of a link to whis specifically but he does have a pretty big link with the gods due to being trained by them his entire life, essentially. hence, his ultimate form being a godly one.More importantly, UI is heavily tied with martial arts, something Goku is autistically passionate about. So even if Goku and Whis don't have much in common, the knowledge that Whis grants him is something Goku is interested in.>>584049156He only seethes after Nail tells him that Dende must've told Krillin and Gohan how to use the dragon balls, but before that he's having a great time.
>>584049960>Piccolo accidentally revealing the dragonballs to the other Saiyans, Nail telling Frieza about what the earthlings are up to, Piccolo losing the element of surprise against Babidi, telling Super Buu that he's trapped, teaching cell how to regenerate.So THAT's why Cell explains everything to Piccolo. The Namekian DNA made him gossip kek.
>>584050308Probably getting the Sayians killed in all this too. Porunga would have been used up by the time Frieza arrived, we know this and Nail only considers helping the humans because Guru ordered him to and even then he refused.
Does Tagoma stay or ded in the ship?
>>584050779cute & best
>>584048103>https://www.youtube.com/live/bLohvthmEX8?is=73FdxBRoV3_1Q8tqRecomp*Also cool to see more people getting interested in https://github.com/z3xox/Tenkaichi3Decomp.Right now it has super small moddability. You can add a handful of stages and music all by yourself (https://github.com/z3xox/Tenkaichi3Decomp/tree/main/docs/port), though it looks like the recomp itself is (somewhat) compatible with modded ISOs too, so there's that.I hope it starts to get more modding capabilities of its own like the better Budokai 3 HD recomp soon.I'm not going back to PCSX2 either way now, desu.
Pre-Z warrior hierarchy of power1st:Buu2nd:Dabra3rd:Yakkon4th:Grand World King God or Pui Pui5th:Pui Pui or Grand World King God6th:Kibito7th:Frieza8th:Cold9th:Vegeta10th:Ginyu
Dr. Gero and android 19 are stronger than Kaioshin, I feel certain in this fact.
>>5840523974/10 at least made me reply
Left or right?
>>584052397I like the massive pui pui upscale from shin being afraid of him
>>584052880Unless Buu saga Piccolo is somehow weaker than pre-Kami fusion Piccolo, I doubt that.
>>584053081>from shin being afraid of himShin being wary of him is weird, because a few chapters earlier he outright says "One of you is probably the strongest in the universe". Though you can chalk that up to him thinking it's better to be safe than sorry.
>>584053050Ginyu has the highest non-Frieza Power level explicitly stated, at 120kVegeta explicitly states that being a Great Ape boosts ones power level by a factor of 10, and Qui's power level Qui, who had "always been on a similar level," is 18,000, 18,000x10=180,000 180,000>120,000Frieza is explicitly stronger than either of them, but we are out of Powerlevels, as 1M is the second to last power level ever read on screen. So we need to use our brains more. Cold is referenced as being similar to Final Form Freiza, but Frieza explicitly isn't at full power when that statement is made, and King Cold never makes any attempt to power up. So Cold before Frieza.Kibito is explicitly referenced as being able to one-shot FriezaPui Pui and Godly Grand World King is a different matter, Godly Grand World King is also explicitly above Kibito, but he is extraordinarily concerned about Pui Pui doing enough damage to him and three guys he brought along that Buu seriously starts awakening. He thinks he can defeat Pui Pui but not without substantial injuries, also Godly Grand World King constantly underestimates mortals, so Pui Pui is probably above, but it is hard to tell and can go either way with the evidence.Yakkon is simple, Vegeta one-shots Pui Pui while Yakkon manages to draw blood from Goku, and Vegeta and Goku are relative to each-other in this SagaDabra is above Yakkon because Dabra forces SSJ out to fight him as rough equals.Buu above Dabra because Buu kills Dabra.
>>584054482>Unless Buu saga Piccolo is somehow weaker than pre-Kami fusion PiccoloIt doesn't make sense, but Gohan is fighting a guy as strong as Cell in SSJ1 again and barely doing any better. The Sayians didn't get much stronger aside from acquiring new forms. No cell saga Piccolo would be one shot by Kaioken x2 Goku of a similar time.
I solved the crisis. Oda should work on a (monthly) Dragon Ball Super and Toyotaro should work on One Piece.
>>584055391>Yakkon manages to draw blood from GokuI don't think this is true, he only seems to cut his Gi
>>584055391>Ginyu has the highest non-Frieza Power level explicitly stated, at 120kColdbros... Are we frauds?
>>584054934Shin's entire character during the spaceship raid is him being extra careful because he doesn't know how strong the people fighting Babbidi's goons are, retards thinking he himself is weaker than said goons when they are base saiyan fodder will never cease to amaze me
>>584055391Cool chatGPT answer, faggot, but Kibito is never compared to Freeza, Shin never fears for himself against anyone but Dabura, Yakon jobs to base saiyans, Vegeta was so much weaker than Goku he needed a majin boost to catch up in the same form and there's no J.
>>584056471Beerusbros???
>>584051445>You can add a handful of stages and music all by yourselfIf stuff like adding more characters, story episodes and easy access to disc fusion content are present then it will be the version with the most content, as such players will ask it run as if not better than any other version >though it looks like the recomp itself is (somewhat) compatible with modded ISOs too, so there's that.That is good point in why the PS2 version was chosen over the Wii one then
>>584056471This is just alluding to how Ginyu is actually a hyper competent warrior and super dangerous just like how salagir predicted
how is a videogames general a better place to discuss the series than /dbs/
>>584056434I hallucinated Yakon cutting Goku's cheek. Tragic, Yakkon touches Goku and Goku gives exclamation points in a speech bubble, and Goku puts effort into his dodges while, Pui Pui's ankle twists against Vegeta's hand.>>584056819>Vegeta was so much weaker than Goku he needed a majin boostMajin boost is a boost is only better than Videl's training. Spopovich gets seriously injured by Videl. Spopovich couldn't defeat Krillin at the 21st World's martial arts tournament. I think it is the most pathetic rise in power imaginable. If Vegeta is seperateded from Goku by Spopovich's Kili rating, I think that's relativistic at this point in the story.>Kibito is never compared to FreezaHe's a Kaioshin in training, no Super Lore I suppose, but Kaioshin considers Frieza a joke and Kibito a serious warrior.>Yakon jobs to base saiyans,I can't even imagine what you think that means. Do you think Kaioshin can fight a Super Sayian? The weakest Super Sayian there ties a man who one shot Kibito, who Kaioshin treats like a serious warrior worth considering.>>584056517If that was true shouldn't he say "I guess I was wrong that guy was super weak" after Pui Pui dies instead of pissing himself on shock, and muttering about how strong Vegeta, who is *way* weaker than Goku according to you.
>godly grand world kinglmao it's the invisitard
I'm watching the naruto panel right now and holy shit, I didn't think it was possible for another anime franchise to have it worse than us
>>584059997you didn't already think that after boruto? or after boruto 2: now with bayonetta sarada?
>>584059101>headcanon about majin boost>headcanon about Kibito>completely delusional answer to claims never made>headcanon about Kibito again
>Nishio is the Yamamuro of Naruto and unlike with DB, they refuse to tard wrangle him >the 4 episodes turned out to be a miniseries with this thing named Ninka>Naruto mobile global release>card game slop >live action news>movie(?) teaser that you have to wait until Jump Festa to see0 Boruto news kek8 annoucnements for the roadmap btw.
>Spopovich doesn't have the majin boost actually
>>584059101>shouldn't he say "I guess I was wrong that guy was super weak"No, why the fuck would he say that you fucking retard? He knows how strong Pui Pui is, it's Vegeta whose strength was unknown to him at the moment as your own pic shows>Pui Pui, a guy who would fodderize 99% of the universe appears>some filthy mortal who likes to fight thinks he will do fine>Shin is concerned because he mortal will job and feed Buu>???>turns out the mortal would also fodderize 99% of the universe and is leagues above Pui PuiAt no point your "I guess I was wrong that guy was super weak" comment would make any sense. THIS reaction makes sense
>>584060541So if Kabito is super weak and Kaioshin knows it why did he bring Kabito to Babadi's spaceship?
>>584061223Can I know what your clsim is? What does Kaioshin vs Pui Pui look like in your head, the exact same as Vegeta vs Pui Pui? Why did he invite these guys who he thinks are going to struggle with Pui Pui.
>>584060623What happened with Naruto?>>584056517>they are base saiyan fodder will never cease to amaze meTo be fair, base saiyan in the Buu Saga means a 'Alot stronger than Kamicollo'.
>>584062681Kamiccolo fought a Cell jr who is as strong as Cell and didn't go down, Gohan fights Dabura who is as strong as Cell in SSJ and might be doing it. If he was 1/50th of himself he woild have died.
>>584062941>Kamiccolo fought a Cell jr who is as strong as Cell and didn't go downSo?>Gohan fights Dabura who is as strong as Cell in SSJ and might be doing it. If he was 1/50th of himself he woild have died.And? Cell is stupidly stronger than a Cell Jr.Piccolo literally says he's weaker than Nahare and Nahare shit his pants at the saiyans' base power multiple times.
>>584063102>Cell is stupidly stronger than a Cell Jr.Both get absolutely wrecked by SSJ2 Gohan, and both can beat up SSJ1s pretty well. Gohan was explicitly refusing to kill real Cell to torture him, he could have ended it at any point.
>>584062941>Kamiccolo fought a Cell jr who is as strong as CellI don't think this is true? Vegeta and Trunks were able to put up a fight against the cell juniors and given what we've seen they weren't supposed to be able to fight Cell at all
>>584063362Vegeta... punches Super Perfect Cell and hurts him.
Everything comes back to that piece of shit scene of Gohan fighting dabura in(seemingly base) ssj. I hate it so much
>>584063275>Both get absolutely wrecked by SSJ2 Gohan, and both can beat up SSJ1s pretty well.And Cell can one tap 20 Cell Jrs with no effort if he wants. He literally shit 5 outs without even losing power or stamina.
>>584063461He absolutely does the fuck not. The most damage he goes against spc is making him flinch slightly with this ki attack. he never even punches him in the first place, much less hurts him with it
>>584063483Not really, the Kamicollo thing has nothing to do with it. If anything the Dabura thing confirms they ARE stronger than Kamicollo to the extent that him being weaker than Nahare implies.
>>584063661im more joking about how it comes up constantly in discussions about early buu saga and I don't even know what to say about it because it's kind of nonsense
>>584063530>And Cell can one tap 20 Cell Jrs with no effortMy source is that I made it the fuck up.>He literally shit 5 outs without even losing power or stamina.Of course not, I don't know why it would. There is no source for birthing children costing Ki there is in fact an anti-reference in Piccolo Sr. He gets older, he doesn't spend Ki.>>584063785Why is it nonsense that Gohan performs slightly better in SSJ1 against a Cell level threat than he did last he fought a Cell level threat in SSJ1.
>>584063926Because Gohan was supposed to have slacked off and gotten weaker. Besides, Dabura isn't even Cell level, at least solidly. Goku says at first that he's probably about cell level, but revises this by the time he fights Gohan and thinks he's actually much stronger than that. What does this mean in practice? Who knows.
>>584063926>My source is that I made it the fuck up.NTA but Cell still very much believes he can beat Gohan after Gohan easily gores the 7 Cell Jrs. If he couldn't wreck a bunch of Cell Jrs himself then he'd already know he's done for, overconfidence or not.
>>584064159>Cell still very much believes he can beat GohanCell believes that after Gohan spares his life to torture him, too. Then Super Perfect Cell comes back says he is as strong as Gohan and then loses to half stamina critically wounded Gohan. Vegeta said he was the strongest in the universe one time and Cell is part Vegeta.
>>584064113Goku says he might be Cell level, as a best case scenario with qualifiers. I don't know how many ifs, maybes and mights and author needs to put in a sentence before you accept that a character doesn't believe something to be true.
>>584064423>Cell believes that after Gohan spares his life to torture him, tooThat's because he goes big muscle form which supposedly makes him a lot stronger, possibly close to Gohan's level, just slower. Also he clearly looks crazy when he says that, dude. Meanwhile Cell before power up looks a bit unsettled but still has composure.There's really no reason to think those Cell Jrs are anywhere near Cell's full strength. EVERYONE lost their shit when he powered up, even though they were all fighting Cell Jrs, some putting up a decent fight. They would NOT put up a fight against serious Cell.
>>584063926>My source is that I made it the fuck up.We literally see a dude who Cell think he can beat do exactly that.>Of course not, I don't know why it would.Because it's what it did to Piccolo Daimao when he shat out a kid too strong.>Bro, Cell could have totally produced infinity children dead equal with himYou're retarded>>584064609>Goku says he might be Cell level, as a best case scenario with qualifiers.And then say he was stronger.
>>584063926>My source is that I made it the fuck up.This man believe that a Saibaman is as strong as Nappa. Fucking insanity.
>>584064696>And then say he was stronger.Than he thought. Why did Toriyama write Goku saying maybe three times if you are just going to ignore them.
>>584064860and what he thought was that he was cell level?
>>584064860>Than he thought.And he thought he was Cell level.
Playing Palworld has got me thinking, would a Dragon Ball themed survival craft action rpg be feasible and sell well?
>>584065026>>584064935No. You aren't reading intentionally. Other fandoms make fun of characters who might be as strong as others, you are getting beaten in litteracy by JJK fans.
Okay so there's exactly 4 different pages where Goku's directly talking about Dabura's powerlevel>Outside the ship where he asks Shin if he's strong>right before he goes into the ship, where he states beating Dabura is easy>right before the fight with Yakon where he says the line saying he's roughly cell level >When he's fighting Gohan, where he said he's stronger than he's thoughtSo he basically only directly says that he's around Cell's level, then revises it to say that he's stronger than he thought. There's not like 3 maybes or a scene where he's unsure, if anything he was pretty confident in that assertion that he was cell level until he fought gohan
>>584065278You're deliberately ignoring what the manga say.'No' like you have any authority, lmao.You were wrong, give up.>>584065123Probably if you do the power progression well. Main issue is that there's really no 'catch' to it, you'd just be replacing tech with ki techniques.
>>584062651>what does [someone stronger than Namek Freeza] vs [someone weaker than Namek Freeza] look like in your head?Retard.>struggleHe does not know, that's the thing, retard, he also didn't expect them to take turns either, anyone sane would have the whole group jumping on Babidi's warrior every level.
>>584065446>[someone weaker than Namek Freeza]Pure headcanon. Shin wouldn't worry about the power of a dude he can one shot.>anyone sane would have the whole group jumpingThat literally can't work by nature of how power levels work.
>>584065446>[someone weaker than Namek Freeza]My source. Yeah that's right it's Battle of the Gods
>>584065535>headcanonCanon as per Toriyama's first movie.>Shin wouldn't worryIf you read the manga you would know he would very much worry because it was some random mortal who was fighting Pui Pui alone, he only finds out how strong Vegeta is after seeing him in action.>can't workIf you read the manga you would know not only there are other samples of strong characters losing to weaker ones because they fought together, Shin himself proposes fighting together and is shocked the mortals are taking turns. Even Gohan suggests jumping on Yakon so they beat him without going SS.But a larper like you wouldn't know of course.
>>584065387*Even* *If* that isn't his full power.... 7 years ago, we fought Cell, Dabra's *probably*...Goku litteraly doesn't believe Dabra was holding back, that's what he says. IF something Goku doesn't believe is true is true he is probably Cell level.
>>584065772>Canon as per Toriyama's first movie.Show me Toriyama's movie saying Pui Pui was weaker than Freeza.>If you read the mangaI would see Shin being worried about his power, 100% debunking your headcanon.>If you read the mangaI would see the 'jumping' can't work because they still can't damage them if they're stronger.Verdict: Retarded and dismissed headcanon.It's so obvious you're just trying to pivot the argument after losing the Dabura one.
>>584065938>he is probably Cell level.And then Goku confirm he is actually stronger than that.It's really not complicated.
>>584065938yeah, it was a casual assertion on dabura's power that ended up being wrong, he was stronger.
>>584064696>We literally see a dude who Cell think he can beat do exactly that. But Cell can not beat him up, Cell is proven wrong, he dies.>>584064672>EVERYONE lost their shit when he powered upAnd Kaioshin was scared by Vegeta killing Pui Pui, and and Dabra who is allegedly explicitly stronger than Cell shat his pants at the generic energy beam shot by a guy explicitly weaker than a guy Cell beat.
>>584065971>show meGoogle Battle of Gods, my larping friend, any version. Base saiyans (up until then at least) couldn't beat Freeza, it takes SS to surpass that level. Pui Pui is weaker than Buu arc Vegeta so he's weaker than Freeza.>I would see Shin being worried for the safety of people who as far he knows could be weaklingsIndeed, larped, indeed, sadly you will never read DB and you will never see how stupid you are.>LITERALLY denying entire battles only won via teamworkConsider this my last (you), ask chatGPT to give you a better bait next time.
>>584066549>But Cell can not beat him up, Cell is proven wrong, he dies.Because Gohan had more power than that.>>584066678>Google Battle of GodsDon't need to since I watched it and Pui Pui isn't even mentioned.So dead headcanon again.>Random seethingNice tears, bro>Consider that I'm running awaySo Pui Pui isn't weaker than Freeza and you were full of shit.
>>584064819No Saibamen have an explicit PL of 1.2k and Nappa fights a guy with an explicit 8k. And also we have all the supporting events that back this up. Tien almost kills and piccolo kills a Saibaiman in two hits, Nappa almost Kills Tien and Piccolo in two hits.Name something Cell does... not says that puts him above a Cell Jr.>Bro, Cell could have totally produced infinity children dead equal with him It appears so.>Because it's what it did to Piccolo Daimao when he shat out a kid too strong. The concern about Cymbal was that Piccolo Sr. was going to die of old age because that's what it costs to make a kid using Piccolo Senior's powers. Piccolo Sr. spat out Tambourine off screen, and Drum was no issue. Are you talking about Jr. the guy he made when he was dead?
>>584067039>Because Gohan had more power than that. Yes Gohan had enough power to kill Cell or a Cell Jr. if he wanted he refused to kill Cell because he wanted to torture him, this is all very clear.
>>584067114>Provide evidence but not that evidence in this direct repeat that follow the same patternSo you know you're wrong.>It appears soNo, it doesn't, you're just retarded>You're right but I'm coping with caveats. Piccolo just faked being tired I guess.Lmao.
>>584067254>es Gohan had enough power to kill Cell or a Cell Jr.With two different level of power and effort, with the Cell Jr one shotting one being something Cell can beat.It is indeed very clear you're obviously wrong and Cell is way stronger than his Cell Jrs.
>>584067434Piccolo was tired after Cymbal? News to me, I remember Piccolo Sr. showing up in his Pilaf's ship shortly after and whooping Goku's ass.
>>584067114>Name something Cell does...Be the big bad final boss of the arc who shat out those random minions that get one shotted.It's sad it has to be explained.
>>584067680That's something he is not something he does. keep trying for your English star sticker. Anyway he gets punched so hard he vomits and kills himself, Vegeta was crushed under a naked child, Freiza did "you will die by my hand" Z villians lose pathetically to the MC, thanks for pointing out how Cell fits the pattern.
>>584067553Gohan defeats Cell with the same amount of effort a Cell Jr. puts into Krillin. They are both explicitly holding back, and their opponent can't touch them without their consent.
>>584067915>That's something he is not something he does.Yes, which make it even dumber that it has to be explained to you.
>>584068034>Gohan defeats Cell with the same amount of effort a Cell Jr. puts into Krillin.But not the same amount of effort that he used to defeat a Cell Jr and that level of effort was something Cell saw and could handle.Your headcanon was wrong, move on.
>>584068242>that level of effort was something Cell saw and could handle. He said he was as strong as Gohan when he was Super Perfect Cell. Gohan killed him.WHAT IS SOMETHING CELL DOES THAT SHOWS HE IS STRONGER THAN A CELL JR.He can't touch Gohan!!! He pees himself and vomits, and Goku and Gohan BOTH say that the only reason Cell is alive is because Gohan wants him to be.
>>584068126Here is Z villian losing to a guy scared of a Saibaman
By the way, this is just a strict plot hole, right? If Gohan was truly dead this wish should have revived him yet everyone acts like he's dead. He's never died before this point, so it's not like the Dragonballs can't revive him.
>>584068535>Just ignore all evidence! I only accept one specific thing to destroy my copeHandle a stronger Gohan without getting one shotted, he did that.>He pees himself and vomitsAgainst a stronger Gohan.
>>584068738>Losing>Vegeta proceeded to keep fighting, beat Yajirobe into a pulp and Yajirobe said he gave up the fight 50 times as Vegeta beat himA cope and a miss.Saddest case of retardation I've ever seen on this general.
Our HERO is not to be underestimated.
>>584068828A stronger Gohan that is holding back against him specific. All explicit. If Gohan wasn't hold back Gohan would have walked up to Cell and punched him apart.
>>584069245>All explicit.Yup, all explicitly saying you're wrong.>If Gohan wasn't hold back Gohan would have walked up to Cell and punched him apart.With more power than for the Cell Jrs.
>>584069151Based
>>584069438>Yup, all explicitly saying you're wrong. What did Gohan just say. It sounded like "I am not killing Cell even though I could">With more power than for the Cell Jrs.Nobody says Gohan powers up. When even moderately strong characters power up somebody usually says something.
>>584068942Vegeta forced to run away caused by a toddler who hid behind a rock from Nappa
>>584069603>What did Gohan just say. It sounded like "I am not killing Cell even though I could"Notice how it doesn't say 'Cell is just as weak as the Cell Jrs I just beat with the same level of strength he wasn't impressed by'?>Nobody says Gohan powers up.Dude is pretending controlling your power is something called out every single time.
You know, thinking about it that one thing in multiverse where the z sword was just cursed so only non-kaioshins were able to pull it was probably to reconcile why fat kaioshin didn't pull the sword despite being strong enough to make buu absorb him
>>584069805Oozaru Gohan had a PL above Vegeta's at that point, try again.I understand your headcanon was destroyed and you're mad but bad faith copes just make it worse.
>>584069151cringe cuck shitGoku would be disappointed
>>584070045No but was scared of Nappa still, also Vegeta mutilates Gohan that's not something somebody weaker than somebody else can generally do in DB
>>584070141>No but was scared of Nappa still,Oozaru Gohan wasn't scared of Nappa, try again.
>>584069948Why did Buu absorb somebody that made him weaker?
>>584070253He didn't, the Daikaioshin just made him nicer and easier to control
>>584070330Kibitoshin says he got a lil weaker. Also fuck now i'm reminded of the "is kid buu the strongest buu" discourse again
>>584069938>Dude is pretending controlling your power is something called out every single time.Usually if there is a substantial jump it is called out, especially if you have 7 people who can sense Ki in a circle.>Notice how it doesn't sayBut he does say he is holding back against Cell for reasons personal to Cell right? BTW Cell hears all this, and still says he can beat Gohan if we need more proof Cell is retarded.
>>584070486No Kid buu is weaker than Super Buu, but is stronger than Fat Buu and Evil Buu
>>584070663you're preaching to the choir here, anon. I'm saying i'm just reminded of the discourse
>>584070530>Usually if there is a substantial jump it is called out, especially if you have 7 people who can sense Ki in a circle.Not really when we talking about one shotting minions.>But he does say something that doesn't prove my delusionYeah, that's what I said.>Cell is retardedNot really compared to you.Wonder why he didn't shit out infinity Super Perfect Cell tier to back him up when Gohan was being troublesome afterward.Almost like Cell Jrs are fodder to Cell and you're a retard.
>>584070486>Kibitoshin says he got a lil weaker.It's just an awkward translation, Buu just got less dangerous.
>>584070869>Wonder why he didn't shit out infinity Super Perfect Cell tier to back him up when Gohan was being troublesome afterward. Vegeta explains why after Raditz dies.>Not really when we talking about one shotting minions. Piccolo Sr. calls out Goku getting serious after he kills Drum. I can't imagine a situation more synonymous.
>>584070986With the exact same Kanji Elder Kai uses?
>>584071194>Vegeta explains why after Raditz dies.Pure fanfic.>Piccolo Sr. calls out Goku getting serious after he kills Drum. I can't imagine a situation more synonymous.That's because you're retarded and can't imagine basic logic.
>>584071194>I can't imagine a situation more synonymous.The Saibamen, who are fodder to the dude who made them grow and have an even fight with the secondary Z fighters.
>>584071956>Cell made 5 Cell Jrs on the same level as him>He then doesn't make 5 Cell Jrs on the same level as himself again when it'd be an easy winYou just admitted your argument is dogshit and Cell wouldn't have made Cell Jrs if they were on his level.
>>584071659>Even fight with the secondary Z fighters.Tien and Piccolo two shot one each. Krillin 1 shots three of them.
>>584072123And yet they got a kill while the Cell Jrs didn't.
>>584062681>base saiyan in the Buu Saga means a 'Alot stronger than Kamicollo'Base saiyans in the Buu arc would job to android 19, amerikek
>>584072278No secondary Z warrior was able hurt a Cell Jr. substantially though, while even Yamcha could defeat a Saibaiman, if he was in a tournament setting.>>584071545>Pure fanficPicrel
>>584072565Android 19 is a lot stronger than Buu Saga Kamiccolo. The gap between the base Sayians and Kamiccolo is as wide as the gap between Tien and Super Buu
>>584050468Do people really enjoy playing as Master Roshi, Yajirobe, Chiaoutzu, Nam, and other worthless jobbers like Gero, Spopovich, Babidi, and King Cold?Why are they in Sparking Zero? The roster of XV2 is basically perfect in comparison.
>>584058767We actually like DB here.
>>584058767/dbs/ is your average /a/ not-so-general thread, endless porn spamming and fancanon
>>584072808>Second main antagonist of Dragonball>Worthless Jobber>Litteraly beat Goku and won in that Saga>Worthless jobber.
>>584072594>IfSo he didn't. So it balances out.>Picrel>No mention of CellSo pure fanfic.>>584072565Literally stronger than Kamiccolo, third worlder.>>584072808>Do people really enjoy playing as Master Roshi, Yajirobe, Chiaoutzu, Nam, and other worthless jobbers like Gero, Spopovich, Babidi, and King Cold?Yes.>>584058767Because /dbs/ has nothing to do with Dragon Ball, just look at the Death Battle general they moved to on /co/
>>584072963>>584073125>nooo i must play as this underdog that would get evaporated immediately by the smallest ssjg goku/bejita blast!Faggots.Villains don't always need to be playable.
>>584073125>>No mention of Cell >So pure fanfic. Goku explains to Gohan why Trunks surpassing of Super Sayian sucks balls does SSJ Grade A Pork Cutlet not suck because Goku didn't say Trunk's name?
Shin in the Buu Saga is the opposite of Gero. Gero missed the Namek Saga and based all his plans on the Saiyan Saga info and Shin missed the Cell Saga and based all his plans on the Namek Saga info.
>>584073312Given that we're talking about making children stronger than you through sex and raising them vs making essentially drone clones that you control that Cell had ALREADY made before with no issue (and wouldn't have made if they were on his level by your logic, thus debunking you), you're retarded and compared vastly different stuff in a way that prove you wrong at the same time.
>>584073325But Gero did see Frieza and King cold on Earth. Shin didn't see things happening in front of him.
>>584073475Cell doesn't control the Cell Jrs like that? Did he want them to run and cower in fear?Where did he get the ability to mind control others, Kami's DNA?
>>584073645>He didn't control them but according to my retarded fanfic, they were all on his level and thus had no reason to obey.You're even more retarded than you seemed.
>>584073779Stop. Can you address why Cell have them freeze in fear and run away instead of all attack in a coordinated way.
>>584073926>Stop being right and pointing out the flaws in my bullshit.Crazy how the Cell Jrs ran in fear from something that didn't scare Cell, almost like they're not equal.
>>584074281Okay, they aren't equalHow does Cell mind control them, and why do they appear to have individual emotions, to such a degree that they don't even attempt to use the Solar Flare and Destucto Disk simultaneously, or anything like that.
>>584074753>Okay, they aren't equalGlad you could admit it.>Mind controlThe mind control was what was needed for YOUR 'they're equal' bullshit to make sense since they would have no reason to obey him otherwise. Learn to read.
>>584068741Everyone knew Gohan was secretely evil.
>>584068741The characters just didn't think about it, they weren't even sure how to formulate the wish.
>>584076905Yamcha seemed to formulate the wish just fine though, they just added an addendum so they wouldn't revive babidi or whatever
>>584068741>>584076905>>584079416>Except the bad guysGohan did something heinous back then. They don't like to talk about it but, they can never forget...
>>584079715That's Goku who did that tho.
Sadly, I'm not expecting to like DBS: Beerus all that much. The writing in Super's pretty bad and there's no way to fix it without a complete overhaul, which this isn't. I only really gravitated towards the training and slice of life episodes, so I'm afraid there's not gonna be much for me to enjoy this time around.
Alright guys you have until the 14th before some xenoverse 3 stuff happens, I don't have any details other than that.
Bump
>>584081235Depending of how much you liked RoF or not you could probably expect some changes for the better or worse, that movie is still divisive
>>584059997>naruto>I didn't think it was possible for another anime franchise to have it worse than usThat's because you haven't read the hideous Boruto manga.
>>584072808I like Gero and Babidi in BT3 was hilarious
>>584069151>Milk>SaiyajinCringe spic shit.
>>584072808I enjoy Roshi and Cold, the rest I don't use.>GeroAndroids are specially trash due to how they can't charge Ki (without mods). I don't like that, I find it as lame as I find it uncomfortable.I didn't like it one bit in BT3 either.
>>584089887I will never understand how Boruto ended up looking like discount late JoJo.
>>584059997What happened specifically? Was it the usual Boruto humiliation ritual or something else?>>584091447Ikemoto wants to draw Jojo so bad it's not even subtle.
What if Chronoa was a VTuber?
Godtube were a mistake, it did irreparable damage to the kai society
>>584093339It sure did.
>>584093457still makes me laugh
>>584094413
i like video game
>>584069151Why is this still up....why am I still up??
>>584100802
>>584098550Is that more Hunter X Hunter or more JJK?>>584100062Nice>>584101962Hot
I'm not gonna join a Discord server for this, but it does look cool.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hTwqxRJz4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1NkFfVG2OQ
No new dialoguehttps://x.com/supachronicles/status/2109178895253786659
>>584058767/dbs/ use to talk about dragon ball but over time became about nothing more than shitposting and drama about specific posters to the point people who have never seen db or read it post there and it snowballed from there.
>>584072808I only use Goku and all his variants
>>584107065But didn't people say Beerus is meaner in this?
>>584107065Super Saiyan Black bros... it's owari da.
>>584105386Looks neat>MMONot for me honestly.
>>584109771but XV3 will be a MMO
>>584109832I'll just play as a single player offline game like I did XV2.>>584109801Based
>>584109176Not really, he's the same they just redrew the shots to make him look more intimidating
>>584107065Anon that's no new BEERUS dialogue, he was lucky enough with all the cuts and not so many changes he didn't have to record anything. We are still getting entirely new scenes that require new dubbing, like Goku going SSG in RoF.
>>584111351...how does that require new dubbingThey can just use any of the 3218903 screaming voices they have.
>>584107065This can't be the official website mentions newly dubbed voicelines???
>>584111652the voice actors themselves came out and said they didn't dub so either there's a glitch in communication or somebody's lying
>>584111378For starters characters will have to mention SSG, specially Freeza.>>584111893>actors*actorOne single guy said he didn't have to record anything new. Nobody is lying, you are just stupid.
>>584112104It will just be a passing scene during the transformation. I wouldn't expect Goku to start dialoguing about SSG.
>manga ends with an epilogue many years into the future>new atrocious series years after said epilogue has somewhat of a fresh start to bait fans into thinking it's gonna be a little similar to the manga's first arcs before going full fanfic>author comes back and delivers a series that takes place between the manga's final arc and the epilogue insteadI can't believe Naruto pulled a DB here, Boruto was GT and the new series is gonna be Super
>>584107065Wonder if he'll get paid at least. Also kinda amusing that despite making Beerus look edgier they ain't re-recording his lines to sound deeper in pitch or something.
>>584113961>and the new series is gonna be SuperSo it'll get 5 remakes and then be cancelled midway through?
>>584113961but Super is the atrocious series
any pirate sites to watch the remake?
started!!
>>584115997GT is worse than Super. This is a complement by technicallity only
>Mr. Satan long ass filler shit is just two seconds nowThank god they are trimming that shit
>>584120221Not falling for this again, Bandai!
>>584122940you mean they removed the kino and soul gif related?
>>584123294They removed trash like Goten and Trunks fighting a random snake and thinking water will make Videl look younger despite being 11 and 12 year old respectively yeah
I like how much passion Pui Pui inspires in this General.
>>584122912No, it's not. GT knew how to end, Super got literally hiatus'd without explaining anything.
>>584104608HxH. It's parodying its most infamous page.
>>584122940>>584123382so how many super's episodes does the first beerus episode cover?
hahaha the so canon "Super" was just proven to be 80% filler KEKThanks Toei.
>>584125039Gregory still there too lmao
>>584124892Three episodes, the fourth one is half Pilaf gang filler half Goku training and then Beerus arrives so if Beerus arrives and fights Goku in ep2 right away that would mean just one episode of DBSB covered for 4 episodes of the old DBS anime
So this confirms that there is a window of opportunity to restore a dead person to their orginal body, which once past makes it impossible to grant that Soul their body, and Yamcha's phrasing was just incredibly akward back when they first arrived at Kaio's planet. There is still jank present on that page, but it doesn't matter for what I was thinking about. How is the Future Timeline a problem? The answer I remember coming to was that Goku died before the Androids showed up, so there would be more than enough time for Goku to get his body and the pass to go to the Outer Kaio Realm, where we know he would go. From here, we know he has access to the universal phone, and he can call Namek to have them use their Dragonballs for him. That's great and all but how does he hear about the Androids killing everyone? We know Goku can go several years while refusing to call his second born son, and Kaio doesn't spend all his time watching the Earth either.If the Z warriors don't get their body and go to Heaven they can't contact Goku to get him to call Namek.
>>584126319Oh boy, episode 5 soonThat episode was both a blessing and a cursehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTDgt473NUI
If Goku can imaginary train with Kid Buu why does he need Uub?
>Joji Yanami is still inWow...
>>584129105Because he already made sure Kid Buu would reincarnate, may as well finish what he started
>>584129105Because he can train Uub to be even stronger than Kid Buu.
>>584058767This place is good as long there no once in a while shitfling that makes /ffg/'s B-Virus endemic a joke.
>>584130491well without regeneration he probably won't lol
>>584089887Still funny they're still ongoing with this while Kishimoto is working on a collab manga with the previous hit ninja manga of the time as an anime
>>584098550Funny
>>584126990Why wouldnt the z fighters get their bodies and go to king kai to go talk to him to talk to namek. Well, vegeta probably wouldnt at least but if enma gave them their bodies and permission to go to king kai once im not sure why he wouldnt again
>>584124298>GT knew how to endNo it did not, also Super's purpose is to continue the story, not end it.
Is the episode out? Fuck i haven't been keeping up with the stream sites on my belt, most of them got zapped by the dorks in the anti-piracy committee.Im not paying for sony's crunchyjew
>>584113961The second greentext probably happens a little too often
Daimasisters cope status?
>>584113961Didn't GT come out immediately after the end of Z, though. Like there was straight up not even a gap, one week EoZ next week GT. I wonder if thats why a lot of It's concepts were underbaked
>>584132912It's available on some pirate sites
>>584133534Dead and buried.
>>584132730>Super's purpose is to extend the story until the author dies and it gets axed midway through because the retards running it don't know what to do nextGreat rebuttal.
>>584133534>Elder KaiI wonder why Toei/Bandai mandated dub names/some terms be used in subtitles? I know the subs have more eyes on them now, but was there a big pushback to stuff like "Kuririn" that I missed?
>>584135069Probably was.Most English fans like the localized names a lot. If you remember, back during the Granolah arc, fan outcry forced them to stop using "Burdock".
>>584135069The localized names are pushed as the correct ones now. Even Gekishin Squadra, which has names that line up with Japanese names (Pure Buu for Kid Buu, Super Uub for Majuub, San Shinron for Eis, Goku (Youth) for Kid Goku) still keeps the spelling (Frieza/Vegitto instead of Freeza/Vegetto).
>>584132654>but if enma gave them their bodies and permission to go to king kai onceFirst Yenma definitely didn't do that first thing. I know the way this is translated is horrendous, but Kami "regenerated" all the Z warriors and possibly himself a body. It is unclear where the Z-warriors went, but Yenma didn't tell them about Snakeway or Kaio's world, and only hell is referenced as inescapable.
>>584136240>>584132654Second I am retarded and forgot to put the second point in.Third Kaio and Kami definitely at least believe that Yenma wouldn't regenerate Goku's body or send him to the Outer Kaio Realm
>>584136463Then in this supposed hypothetical wouldnt kami just regenerate their bodies again and they all meet up on snake way to discuss business with goku and king kai?
>>584132730>>GT knew how to end>No it did notNTA, but yes, yes it did.
Also I dont think getting your body (assuming youre as much of a cool guy as the z warriors are) is an especially difficult thing to do? We know grandpa gohan has his, after all.
Japanese fans have been given more material for memes.https://x.com/Makky_266/status/2109302794037743985
>>584137832Holy fucking shit.I hadn't heard a version of the OP song with acceptable quality yet.You know what it reminds me of? Ai-generated music. The stuff you'd genenerate in suno.com for example.
>>584134609>>Super's purpose is to extend the story until the author dies Yes, gonna cry ?
>>584137393Then why nobody talks about Goku Jr?
>>584113961>the new series is gonna be SuperWhere? The Ninku collab anime is 4 episodes
Hey, what I miss?
>>584133293i like this
IIRC, Goku says something similar in Daima's ending when he comments how he got SS4. Weird they talk Buu up like this, yet, he got by far the worst image training fighting, as it was mostly Goku punching and kicking without showing Kid Buu.
>>584137432>We know grandpa gohan has his, after all.We also know Muten Roshi knows Kami, and Gohan owned the key to the lookout, so I don't know why we wouldn't assume Gohan got his body the same way Goku, Chiaotzu, Tien, Piccolo, Goku again and Bubbles got their bodies back after death. Everyone who got their bodies back before the Buu saga was either under direct attention of a Divine or was a divine.>>584136960If Kami can regenerate somebodies body while he is dying why did he take Goku's body at all.
>>584139226Because his story is simple and not much to discuss.
>KibitoshinDaimabros...
>>584113961The new Naruto manga is slice of life, don't count on it being a big retelling that retcons Boruto or anything. Boruto will even be there as a baby.
I forgot how bad Kaio's VA sounded
Do you headcanon any unique interactions for you're CaCs with their mentors?
Kinda looks like his RoF gi
>>584142652If Kami can regenerate somebodies body while he is dying why did he take Goku's body at all.Unknown. He clearly doesnt need to because he had no access to any of the z fighters bodies (on account of him being dead) so he clearly doesnt need them. Maybe kami just didnt want to risk Enma's ire by circumventing the system? And then he clearly doesnt care that much post saiyan saga so he just goes for it
>>584142954He was almost dead here cut him a slack
>>584144074>he had no access to any of the z fighters bodies (on account of him being dead)He died last, barring Nappa. He had access to Tien and Yamahas bodies at least.>And then he clearly doesnt care that much post saiyan saga so he just goes for itBrother what?
>>584139367naruto shadow rising
Dbs Beerus episode 1 was enjoyable enough. Pacing was a bit fast at times leading to some questionable cuts but ultimately I’m looking forward to what’s to come.
>>584145669>>584144074Hang on if divines can instantly regenerate bodies at range, KAIO-SAMA what are you doing regenerate Goku and Krillins body you were watching the fight.
>hyping up this fraudulent trash
>>584142767Exactly, hence why the ending is shit.
>>584142767Goku Jr. has like all his friends die to aquire one Dragonball before his story just kind of ends.
>>584122912Many are saying this
>>584150837>all his friends dieOnly one guy traveled with him, and even though he seemingly died, he showed up alive and fine in the end.
>>hyping up this fraudulent trash
>>584129105Imagine training is obviously not as good as the real deal or they would use it all the time, plus if Oob's baseline of power is Boo's then he's gonna be hundreds if not thousands of times stronger than that in no time, Boo is gonna look like a fucking joke compared to him
>>584133565In anime terms yes. Source material wise GT dropped some time after the real DB ended.
>>584150092It's less of hyping him and more of foreshadowing the existence of more saiyans. If you know what's coming you recognize the team there, if you don't because you never watched or read Super you will be shocked to see a group of mystery niggas with a member of Freeza's race and a Super Saiyan
Daipa is dead and forgotten.
>>584133565>Like there was straight up not even a gap, one week EoZ next week GT. I wonder if thats why a lot of It's concepts were underbakedToriyama had to come up with all the ideas for Dragonball and draw them every week
I actually like the new song Catchy
>>584133293....is that Ebisumaru there? Surely they didn't troon him out... surely...
>>584133565>Didn't GT come out immediately after the end of ZYes.https://www.kanzenshuu.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_release_chronology>31 January 1996 Dragon Ball Z Episode 291: "Even Stronger!! Goku's Dream is Super-Huge" debuts on Fuji TV.>07 February 1996 Dragon Ball GT Episode 1: "The Mysterious Dragon Balls Appear!! Goku Becomes a Child?!" debuts on Fuji TV. >I wonder if thats why a lot of It's concepts were underbakedDB manga had ended for almost a year by the time GT started, so they had at least a few months when it comes to production to come up with something new.
>>584150092What's wrong with Cabba? He gave Bejita some of his best moments in Super.
>>584152824And we saw hundreds of retcons and OoC moments, so what's your point
>>584150687No, it's not. There's nothing wrong with a simple story without going multiversal for numbers pandering.>>584152410>Boo is gonna look like a fucking joke compared to himStill waiting. It's 30 years after Uub's debut and it still didn't happen.
>>584153846>Hates Dragonball>Is here
>>584153978No shit? We never crossed EoZ in canon, of course something EoZ establishes its gonna happen in the future isn't something we see.
>>584153978>Still waiting. It's 30 years after Uub's debut and it still didn't happen.He'll become the STRONGEST eventually!
>Daima wasn't even acknowledgedLmao.
>>584154197>We never crossed EoZ in canonAnd we won't.
>>584154981So you understand why asking to see a fully trained Oob is pointless?
>>584139908You could say Goku can't even imagine himself defeating him.
>>584156631This fanbase caring about this non-character is pointless.
kys luigi
>>584154057I mean he's not wrong, Toriyama did not care a lot for lore or continuity, which overall I think contributed to the series' greatness because he didn't feel shackled to the past or constrained by what he had previously written. It's a very Japanese outlook.
>>584158302>It's a very Japanese outlook.Writing at the time was like that. Western TV series and comic books were pretty episodic and didn't worry too much about contradicting previous episodes as long as it meant the new episode would do cool new things.
So this really is DBS Kai.
Where does this leave Daima? Is it like an alternate universe or Elseworlds story now?
>>584159483it always was its own thing, it's just like one of the DBZ movies
>>584150092>Still looks like a stickWhat's the point of this if it won't fix stupid shit like that?
>>584159483Every single thing that came after End of Z anime wise is its own separate thing.It's always been more healthy to interpret Dragon Ball works like that imo.
>>584159324lmao no, Kai was just a remaster with some few cuts, DBSB is cutting so much shit that even with the manga-based content they are adding they are trimming 41 episodes into 12, with some full redraws or entirely new scenes on top previous static ones (see the flashbacks of Boo arc, those are all completely new for DBSB)
>>584160571I dunno. It's dumb as hell.
>>584160571>>584161307I don't see the problem, ki power doesn't rely on muscle.
I was curious about the money now I'm seeing Goku get it for a third time. Penguin Village uses the christian calendar, not the Age one, but the Daizenshuu officially links them using Tori-Bot's birth as reference; Toriyama was born in 1955, which in Age translates to 720.Beerus arc takes place in Age 778, which means episode 1 takes place in 2013.Now according to Jaco's manga a zeni is the rough equivalent to one and a half yen. Surely that would apply only in Age 737 (1972) but we have no idea how the value of yen and zeni are later so we will keep it and check the value of yen in 2013, to get one us dollar was roughly equivalent to 100 yen.>1 usd = 100 yen = 150 zeniGoku got 100000000 zeni, the equivalent to getting 150000000 yen, or 1500000 usd. He basically got million and a half of burger bucks in 2013. Not bad as a world peace reward, I guess.
>DBS but soullessWhat is the point?
>>584162348Given how much food that the Son household must go through I have to wonder how long that'd actually last them unless Chichi invested a good portion of it somehow.
>>584162348Goku's a smart guy!
>>584162587immature kids pretending that taking the humor out is somehow good
>>584162887They do have a farm and Goku knows how to hunt, so food expenses won't necessarily be that bad.
the series will end with mega supreme Saiyan doing a multi existential spiritual bomb at netherite freezer, erasing himself and him from reality and having pan carry on the next generation
>>584159483Think about it like One Piece Film Strong World or Film Red. The lore is canon but the events aren't.
This episode was really bad. Isn't there anything else, anything fully new they could have done?
>People actually thought Goku would turn Super Saiyan 4 and Vegeta would turn Ultra Vegeta 1 in this arcKEKAROOOOOOOO
>>584167693so much for "Toriyama's final dream"
>>584167693Fucking brats, this calls for rape
>>584167693Daipa is as dead and buried as Toriyama is, expect not as missed
>>584168079I saw that porn before the rape is futa
>>584168079They all have penises
>>584168228>>584168601The issue being?
>>584169507They'll be the ones correcting you.
>>584167693who the fuck are those, this is a CHADGON CHAD general
Full songhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8M_NuklmTYAnd nearly 2M views for the opening itself not even 12 hours after it dropped.
>>584173798>UnavailableHuh?
>>584173798That's around average for DB openings, no? Never seen one fail to reach the millions.
Is the remake worth watching? I already saw all of Super and rewatching just to see different animation doesn't seem worth it, especially since it'll just have less stuff.
>>584170170See >>584169576
>>584176693Don't acknowledge /dbs/ tourists.
>>584168601>>584168228>>584169576steak too juicy, lobster too buttery
>>584180193>>584169507Anon too gay
>>584173798I hate when full versions have a different pitch from the TV size ones.
>>584173798>Available Huh.
>>584180193I don't know anon from the stuff I done seen you might not be the kind of person they're looking to correct
>>584159483It is just a thing that happened in it's own canon. Like GT, like Super. Just another possibility.
>>584180193Dick too juicy, cock too buttery
Trunks explicitly doesn't have a good grip on events as they happened before he was a being that formed memories.I don't feel like this should have needed a source, but I wish I had this in my memory bank for previous arguments.
It's funny DBS remake start on the second anniversary of Daima. Do you think that means October is the new release date for DB animes?Is it because Goku's gi is orange like a pumpkin?
Goku didn't want to fight strong guys in Z right?
>>584191049Why did bulma remember the exact time and location of goku's pod landing but not actually the important event of how he beat up frieza and cold
In fact, why does bulma know when goku's pod lands at all. He wouldnt have landed with it in trunks' timeline
>>584192457>>584192552Bulma doesn't know the exact time of Goku's pod landing. Trunks knows because of radar, the same way Freiza and Cold know.And Goku's pod would still land, so if she knew the location, she can find that out retroactively easily.
If Piccolo can sense that Tien, Yamcha and Krillin are weaker than Sayian Saga Vegeta still like most fans think why did he let them stay.
>>584192803Yeah but why wouldn't she just tell him that Goku was going to teleport down and kill cold and frieza. Trunks explicitly knew he was supposed to do that after all
>>584191762>Goku didn't want to fight strong guys in Z right?He was getting pummeled by Vegeta and still admitted he was having fun.
Looking at it, I dont think Trunks was supposed to be using some sort of radar to tell that Goku's pod was incoming at that time and location. If he did he would have just said that to Krillin instead of telling him he can't answer that (which means he got it from future knowledge) that watch thing was probably just a map and he got the time and location from bulma. Which, again, is a weirdly specific thing to tell trunks and not "oh yeah goku just teleports down" especially since that pod landing would have been hours after goku teleported down
>>584193174It's been 23 years for her, it's a little logistical detail that would easily slip your mind between the strongest known warriors in the universe showing up on the same day.>>584193462I don't know what was supposed to be true, but in what actually gets published, Trunks explicitly doesn't know the time Goku was supposed to land from future knowledge.They are a chapter apart, Trunks ducking Krillin's question and Trunks saying he didn't know Goku's pod would be late. Toriyama had a week to change his mind, it has happened before and in some cases the characters say directly contradictory things instead of just an awkward thing like Trunks ducking Krillin's question.
Watched the episode, I don't like how tryhard it is. They really turned the funny dinosaur caveman fight into something with nukes thrown in and an aura that's so overdesigned, it looks like a constant One Piece Haki impact frame.
>>584194076Logistical detail? Anon its the entire event. Bulma remembering the pod at all which in their timeline would have been a footnote to the event is weird (in fact im not sure why she would still be in the area three hours after the fact)
>>584193462>>584194076He's going off half-bulshitted info from Bulma 20 years into the future. Bulma probably didn't remember half that shit.He's lucky he even got the right day.
>>584194273>Bulma remembering the pod at all which in their timeline would have been a footnote to the event is weird>(in fact im not sure why she would still be in the area three hours after the fact)Everyone was confused on how Goku got off Namek, even North Kai somehow missed it. They ask about it even after all the insane events that happen back to back in the main timeline. And asking about the pod would be the last thing that happened in the Future Timeline.
Trunks kills two Cells who haven't done anything.
Either way I dont really think toriyama was supposed go be characterizing trunks to be an unreliable narrator by that point given he was giving hyper specific information that was all correct up to that point (even if the pod stuff is kind of weird, as you say) We do know in a meta sense that the android exposition was supposed to be 100% true after all. Its more that it just kind of the weird writing with the pod kind of lets toriyama cover his ass
>>584194843>Either way I dont really think toriyama was supposed go be characterizing trunks to be an unreliable narrator by that pointNo. There is no reason to have him be explicity wrong about events if you don't want to characterize him that way.
>>584195025>>584194843Also the next time he appears he is late despite owning a time machine, wandering around like a retard while three bonus androids confuddle him.>That was a result of meddling and not in Toriyama's visionOkay but Toriyama did always plan for 20 to be Gero, and Trunks thinks Gero is dead and tells Goku this, so I don't know why we would think he is meant to be read as perfectly reliable as of Chapter 334
>>584162114>I don't see the problemHe looks lame for a kid that grew up with DBZ like me.He's always looked lame, but I don't know, I was hoping the better animation would lead to redrawn frames and maybe improvements such as drawing some muscle into the U6 saiyans' bones.
>>584162114>>584195489Nobody complains that Beerus or Jackie Chun is skinny. Skinny isn't the *real* problem it's just the catalyst.
>>584195272Trunks not knowing a comparatively minor detail like gero being 20 is less jarring than how hyper wrong he ended up being in actuality. Trunks can get stuff wrong but hes overall more correct than he isnt, and some of the things hes wrong about are caused by butterflies he causes. That's not really what ends up happening in the actual story
>>584196193Well we were talking about Toriyama's intentions for a bit, and at this point in the story the Androids Trunks spent 13 years training and fighting were 20 and 19 in Toriyama's head. Not knowing that 20 is Gero after 13 years is embarrassing actually.>Trunks can get stuff wrong but hes overall more correct than he isntTrunks is only correct about things he can physically see. There are two Androids and everyone except Gohan isn't alive.
>>584196536>Not knowing that 20 is Gero after 13 years is embarrassing actually.This is more on bulma than trunks, tbf. And even then its kind of weird because in the main timeline bulma figures it out almost instantly just by looking at him iirc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z00VOo6kdKM
>>584196843>And even then its kind of weird because in the main timeline bulma figures it out almost instantly just by looking at him iircShe does, but by that point 20 was already planned for replacement, I assume that would have taken longer if 20 stayed the main antagonist.
Yamcha getting grabbed by 20 is another embarrassing moment actually.>He's just a human there is nothing he could have donePicrel
>>584197198Would it have? We got cell's backstory right as he was introduced after all
Demon Realm Trunks should be featured in something, I just don't know what
>>584197495Whyd they give him a shittier tractor plow
To that anon who thinks that toriyama gave trunks a sword because the androids have absorption powers, I have to think that cant be true because if that was always planned toriyama would have had trunks mention it in his warning. Then again maybe that was just supposed to be a suprise or something
>>584198010I think it wasn't supposed to be a big 'new meta' thing, just a detail where you'd see Trunks use his sword to stay out of 19 and 20's grab range.
>>584198127I wasnt arguing that, just that I don't think that was the plan with his character because I dont think toriyama had 19 and 20's powers written out until their introduction. I cant prove this, none of us can, it's just the vibe I get from how non-specific trunk's exposition is about the androids themselves.
>>584198303To be fair, in the first print of his warning, he mention 19 and 20 by name.
>>584198482Yeah but thats it. Its entirely possible that Toriyama did have them all figured out by this point but then that would make trunks not saying anything weird. Speaking of, why did Torishima instantly assume 19 and 20 were the arc big bads anyways? Like his entire thing was their designs couldn't carry an arc but why would he assume these dudes that have just shown up are the final bosses.
>>584198712>Speaking of, why did Torishima instantly assume 19 and 20 were the arc big bads anyways?Because the entire issue points that way.>Two super androids kill everyone, starting in an island>Two beings show up and start to kill everyone around the time Trunks said they'd show up>They have no ki because they're machines>Designated numbers are 19 and 20, which's confirmed in the next issue>In interviews, Toriyama said he liked 19 and 20 just fine, and says the same about Imperfect Cell, so they were planned to be the main villainsToriyama also typically didn't pull weird twist villains. Plus, Torishima could have simply asked Toriyama if those two are the real villains if he wasn't sure. At the time there was no doubt they were the villains.
>>584199435>Toriyama also typically didn't pull weird twist villainsRaditz wasnt the end of saiyan saga, though.
>>584199435>Toriyama also typically didn't pull weird twist villains.He didn't pull twist villains but generally there were more than just two people to fight.
>>58419961323rd WMAT
>>584199773There were multiple fight in that tournament, not just Goku vs Piccolo. Kami, Krillin and Tenshinhan also got fights.
>>584199573>Raditz wasnt the end of saiyan saga, though.Raditz shows up out of nowhere, immediately makes Piccolo piss himself to raise stakes, and two issues after his debut he mentions two other saiyans, so he was implied to not be the final villain before he attacked Goku. By comparison, Trunks builds up 19 and 20 in 335, and they only show up two issues later, and the very next issue confirms they are indeed 19 and 20. Once again, there was no reason to doubt they were the androids Trunks talked about at the time, and if there was any doubt, Torishima could have simply ASKED, or expect a correction.>but generally there were more than just two people to fight.True, which's why a Gero arc would be odd if they were indeed the only villains during the entire thing. Although Cell shows that fewer villains can work anyway, since the moment he debuts it's everyone against him, with a side of Piccolo vs 17, and then Cell Jrs at the very end.
>>584200376>Once again, there was no reason to doubt they were the androids Trunks talked about at the time,My point is that this doesnt mean they had to be the only threats. Trunks already established that butterfly effects can change events around so theres no reason to assume that once then androids are dead that the arc would just instantly end is what im saying
>>584199859Sure but it was the Z warriors vs... Tao Pai Pai and Junior for the entire thing. There were only two antagonists.
What happens if 20 kills Vegeta here?
>>584201212Thats still a different thing entirely pacingwise because the other fights help to build up to the final big bad fight. Its not just having the androids, its just them and having not much else going on
>>584201212I said 'people to fight', not antagonist. Goku and Tenshinhan fought too.
>>584200376>Although Cell shows that fewer villains can work anyway, since the moment he debuts it's everyone against him, with a side of Piccolo vs 17, and then Cell Jrs at the very end.There were 19, 20, 17, 18 and 16 before Cell tho. It's not like Cell is just some separate villain unrelated to what happened before in the arc.
The (Z) Androids get stronger as they go down in number. 20 gets his hand torn off by Piccolo, and 19 drew blood from SSJ Vegeta, then it's super explcit that 18>17>16. Though 19 explicitly got stronger after raping Goku, so there is wiggle room there.
>>584153642>https://www.kanzenshuu.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_release_chronologyThis whole talk got me wondering about when exactly Toriyama changed his plans.>13 August 1991 Dragon Ball Chapter 337: "The Super Warriors Assemble">This is 19/Gero's debut chapter>Torishima wasn't Toriyama's editor at the time so he probably didn't read it ahead of time>If we assume Torishima called Toriyama on the same day the issue came out, then Toriyama would've made corrections not long after>I don't know how publication of manga works, but Toriyama likely had one or two issues already done even before Torishima called to complain>As such, it's safe to assume 338 didn't have any details changed, and Yamcha says "My energy" once Gero attacks him, so the energy absorption via touch was there early on>Curiously, Gero's palm is visible for one panel but it lacked the pink circle>339 is when Goku and the rest meet Gero and they fly away, hard to tell if any detail was changed>340 might be when the plans themselves started to change. Piccolo notes the mountains can be used to escape and 20 lets it slip that he may be Gero. If there were any plans to make a twist out of 20 being Gero, then Toriyama may have rushed it>In the same issue Bulma calls Gero by name. 347 eventually retcons her as not being aware Gero was the scientist behind the androids just so she conveniently can know where his lab is>341 is almost probably where the plans changed, Goku mostly overpowered 19. On the other hand it could be a Cell situation where 19 starts out weaker but absorption makes him stronger than everyoneIMO, I feel 338 and maybe 339 weren't changed after Torishima's because publication schedule means Toriyama must've had at least one chapter already done once 337 hit the shelves. By 340 there were probably changes of plans, and after that it's just fighting so Toriyama had plenty of time to think about the new androids... There is a two weeks break between 337 and 338, which is suspicious.
>>584201775To be fair, Vegeta very much so let 19 do that, because autism.
>>584201940He let 19 punch him, I don't think he bit the inside of his lip to bleed intentionally.
>>584200657>Trunks already established that butterfly effects can change events around so theres no reason to assume that once then androids are dead that the arc would just instantly end is what im sayingWell sure, but Toriyama typically doesn't do twist villains. About the closest thing to a twist villain would be Commander Black being the final RRA opponent Goku fought instead of Red, and even in that case, neither of them were the strongest opponent Goku was going to fight anyway. Once Goku defeated Taopaipai, he was just getting rid of the leftovers. Gero by comparison had a buildup similar to Freeza, although with way less soldiers. If a butterfly effect were to change anything in a Gero arc, he might actually simply have more androids, instead of being replaced by someone else, and Toriyama commenting he liked 19/20 just fine implies he didn't think of someone else taking over until Torishima called him.>>584201619>There were 19, 20, 17, 18 and 16 before Cell tho. It's not like Cell is just some separate villain unrelated to what happened before in the arc.He's not unrelated, but he's not on anyone's side. My point is that while it's unusual for Gero/19 to be the only villains, Cell showed it can sort of be done for an arc to have a few villains, although Cell himself wouldn't be as effective without what came before him, so a Gero arc could be pretty meh... It's a mess and hard to imagine what would happen. 19 is what makes the whole thing even harder to imagine. Would Vegeta still kill him in a Gero arc, leaving Gero as the sole villain? And if 19 survived, what the hell would be his role afterwards? Gero arc really is an enigma. Even if it were to be worse than what we got, I'm still just curious about it...
>>584202632I assume it would be a long game of keep away the Goku for the entire saga or something. It also might have been closer in length to a traditional DB saga than a "Z" saga.
>>584202870Damn I wrong, explicitly so. Pre-HTC SSJ1 Vegeta is stronger than pre-HTC SSJ1 Goku.
>>584203128After killing 19, Piccolo claims Vegeta "may" have surpassed Goku, and after everyone lost to the androids, Kami says Vegeta is even stronger than Trunks but doesn't compare Vegeta with Goku. So it's a little inconclusive, but there's more dialogue suggesting Vegeta surpassed Goku, at least. Which is pretty odd since this is the only time Vegeta surpassed Goku when both trained for about the same time, and Goku had a massive headstart too...
>>584154489Basado
>>584203594I thought I knew better than to use one translation when my arguments are language based. But Piccolo says this twice and he would know since he trained with Goku and can do basic arithmetic... I assume I don't think I have a source for that. And what does Toriyama mean by having Piccolo say it twice, that Vegeta might be above Goku.>>584203594Sure but everyone knew Trunks was the weakest SSJ1, probably weaker than Piccolo even. Rereading the part where he and Goku compare each other, there is more wiggle room for Trunks strength than I thought, but keep in mind that is a Goku three years removed from what Piccolo would be comparing against.>head startOnly according to third party materials.
Great question 17
>>584204293...also doesn't this statement require 8 to be a cyborg instead of a robot.
>>584204293>>584204362My panel didn't post for the second one.
>>584204093>Only according to third party materials.What do you mean? Goku's base form was much stronger than Vegeta's as shown in the Freeza fight, and he had SS1 for longer. Goku had a huge headstart and Vegeta still surpassed him.
>>584204756Toriyama's big twist in the Frieza fight requires that the audience not know when Goku started using Kaioken times ten which was thought to be his maximum output. I don't know how we can possibly know what base Goku's power actually is after he gets out of the pod, when we don't know when we are even looking at base Goku.>SSJ1 for longerI don't think familiarity with the form making it actually stronger is ever implied even. The idea that SSJ drains energy quickly is vaguely hinted at and is the only thing Gohan and Goku's mastery is explicitly for.
>>584204756>Toriyama's big twist in the Frieza fight requires that the audience not know when Goku started using Kaioken times ten which was thought to be his maximum output. I don't know how we can possibly know what base Goku's power actually is after he gets out of the pod, when we don't know when we are even looking at base Goku.Vegeta comments Gokus power grew a lot right after he arrives, Goku and Freeza were also just messing around the fight initially too. It's really unlikely Goku was using kaioken from the get go, certainly not enough for Vegeta to make such a comment before the fight even starts.>I don't think familiarity with the form making it actually stronger is ever implied even. The idea that SSJ drains energy quickly is vaguely hinted at and is the only thing Gohan and Goku's mastery is explicitly for.It stills means Goku had the form for longer to get used to it and train with it, and there's one page that does show him training with Piccolo with SS1, so that's still a headstart over Vegeta getting the form however many years later.
>>584205343Meant for >>584205343
>>584205432Oh Jesus I'm retarded today. Meant for >>584205091
>>584205343>Vegeta comments Gokus power grew a lot right after he arrives>certainly not enough for Vegeta to make such a comment before the fight even starts.It's self fulfilling at this point isn't it. Whatever Goku is right when Vegeta comments on it is going to contest X% Freiza while Vegeta got absolutely wrecked by X% Freiza. So whatever that is, is going to be impressive to Vegeta no matter what it is.>Goku and Freeza were also just messing around the fight initially tooSure but against Ginyu Goku refers to not using higher forms of Kaioken as holding back to Ginyu. I agree Goku wouldn't go to his believed highest KK form to hold back, but he refers to both holding back his strength in base and refusing to use his maximum Kaioken as holding back.
>>584176442I'd at least wait for the RoF changes
>>584206641>>584205343There isn't a KK form that would be too weak to woo Vegeta. Let me put it this way if Goku is merely as strong as Vegeta than KKx2 can generate that reaction, or if Goku is half as strong as Vegeta Goku, could us KKx4 to get this reaction. Goku can be weaker still to get this reaction out of Vegeta with KKx5-9, if we accept those exist, because I suppose you could say that those are impossible because we never hear of their existence explicitly.There isn't even a lower limit on what % of Vegeta Goku can be other than 10, because 3rd Zenkai Vegeta is an extremely nebulous character beyond the hard floor of being above 1 millions
>>584211196>>584206641I don't have another argument, I just need to correct myself because I am retarded. Goku needs to be more than a 1/10th of Vegeta, actually to inspire that reaction. He needs to be like more than 1.5x for Vegetas reaction to make sense, so 1/7th, and when you consider that Vegeta is having trouble perceiving X% Freiza and Goku just isn't, KKx10 Goku should probably be double, assuming he is using KKx10 from the beginning, which I find unrealistic, so 1/5th. Which funnily enough, all my partially separately built bare minimum numbers line up decently for what they are. Though 50% Freiza is a bit too weak.Now that I have been rolling it around in my mind all morning, I think Goku is more in the 1/2lf to 1/3rd of Vegeta, but he can go lower without breaking anything.
You know it's interesting how Gero's lab is right next to north city yet he elected to attack some random ass island instead of it
>>584195575Chiun is technique rather than strength, and can forcibly bulk himself up when he needs the raw strength. Beerus is a literal god so can look like whatever he wants
>>584195575Beerus has a fairly detailed design and he's also fairly tall. I don't think it's JUST that the main u6 saiyans are skinny, they have this bobblehead chibi look to them like they're kind of from Daima, and I think that makes them look weird. It looks like they're intentionally simplified designs of stuff we never got
>>584218884Would you shit on your porch to spite your neighbor?
the Powerlevel of Gero's androids seem to scale two arcs ahead of where he perceives Goku's powerlevel to be. Therefore, if he saw Super Saiyan Goku and Trunks 19/20 would be Dabura tier with 17/18 being fat buu tier and 16 being super Buu. If he saw super saiyan 2 Goku those motherfuckers would be god and blue tier somehow
>>584220675>blue tierNah because it took Hedo to do that and he's explicitly a higher level genius than Gero AND needed the boost of Gero and his computer's years of studies too. Just Gero doing his own studies would probably never reach that level.
>>584221112never underestimate the power of a sufficiently motivated dragonball character during a timeskip
>>584204293I am 80% sure that Android 16 was supposed to be way bigger than the role he ended up actually playing
Tien playing cheerleader to Vegeta is really fucking funny. That aside, it's weird how Piccolo tries to imply the reason 18's beating Vegeta is due to the infinite energy and not due to the fact that she's just plain stronger than his ass and it's honestly not even close. Like she took two direct attacks from him and is completely unphased.
>>584219232>Chiun is technique rather than strengthHe trades mostly blow for blow with Goku, and manages to get it down to a final strike trade after was forced to go into full power form and fire a world ending Kamehameha when Goku didn't have to expend all that Ki.>He can bulk upHe isn't for most of time in the three Sagas where he fights before his retirement.
>>584222598when he starts to get overpowered he does it. it's clearly a transformation for him.
>>584222675That's like Super lore.It's his full power State like Frieza has where it makes him 30% stronger and rapes his stamina, so he uses it only to launch really powerful single Kamehamehas, and he only uses it twice, because Roshi is smart unlike Frieza.
Some arab is porting new characters to Burst Limit
Also, looking at the context of which this is said, I feel like Toriyama HAD to have been going somewhere with this originally, because this is a completely unsolicited lore tidbit that Toriyama had to have had a reason for Trunks to bring up . He doesn't say this in his original exposition for the androids, so this is new. I wonder what it was supposed to mean.
>>584222962Based
>>584223060The future Androids were holding back due to playing with their prey. 17 only used more power when he got tired from playing with Gohan.
>>584223292I am certain that is an explanation added because fans became obsessed with that detail. I think the plan was for that detail to go somewhere, but had to be disarmed instead thanks to changing plans.
>>584223292No I understand that's the official explanation, but I don't think that's what Toriyama was implying with this. Because like, that doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things? 17 and 18 holding back exists to explain Trunks' comment but it doesn't explain why Toriyama would have Trunks bring that up when it's a nothing detail that doesn't matter.
Especially since Kami uses it here to spare the androids, once again citing that they're different. I guess at my most cynical I could imply that Trunks only said that so Kami would have a reason to not become Kamiccolo instantly, but even then the androids still haven't done anything wrong so far, so I doubt it.
>>584223060>>584221995I would be pretty sure it was going to be the 16 Saga after it stopped being the 20 Saga, if not for the fact that Toriyama changed plans again after critism of 17 and 18 was made. So that implies it would have been the 17 Saga, but I am more certain than you that 16 would have played a way larger role in the 17 Saga.I wish I had a universe creation machine like Trunks has, so I could see what these Sagas would have been.
>>584223836>if not for the fact that Toriyama changed plans again after critism of 17 and 18 was madeWe all like Cell here, but I think Torishima's criticism of 17 and 18's designs was bullshit, I think they would've been fine as arc antagonists.
>>584224016I think he was wrong about 20.
>>584224093Agreed, but I do question what he was cooking with android 19. I think Trunks becomes one of the biggest casualties from the ever changing plans. Once Cell comes along he kind of stops having personal stakes in the plot because Cell doesn't have a lot to do with Trunks on a personal level. Like he wants to stop Cell, sure, but that's just kind of what everyone wants. (sans vegeta)
>>584224241That's funny because Trunks kills Cell twice when he has done as much evil as 16-18. Though I suppose that isn't a hypocrisy because Trunks never forgives the Androids.
In fact I think 17 and 18 had more potential for neat character stuff with Trunks than 19 and 20 did because he has to deal with the fact that they're way nicer in this timeline and all of the complex feelings that brings when he's watched them slaughter his planet for years. Also I gotta say the people who think Krillin didn't spare 18 because he thought she was hot are coping
>>584224241>19He's just a minion for 20 to build stakes and extend the Saga, like Nappa.Of the three Sagas with minions; Piccolo Sr., Sayian, and Namek, 66% of them had a fat minion.
>>584224850Well yeah but in all of those cases the big bad had more minions than just the fat guy. Dodoria had Zarbon and Piccolo Sr had all of his other wacky minions. Gero only had 19
>>584224016>We all like Cell here
>>584225006Okay fine, Imperfect Cell, I can say that we probably all like Imperfect Cell. Even I think that Perfect Cell/ Semiperfect just kinda removed everything interesting about Cell to make him just another generic dragonball villain. Which is why I assume japan doesn't care for him that much. 19/20 have a personal link to Goku, 17/18 have a personal link to trunks, and Cell doesn't really have a personal link to anything aside from being another Gero creation I guess.
>>584224943Well Senior made three combat minions and two of them were fat. Guildo was also a fat minion, though the majority of named Frieza force minions are not fat. Also we don't know if 20 was going to pull out additional minions, as a suprise ala the Saibamen or Drum, as the story progressed.I don't think "20's minion dude was too fat the Saga was bad" is a rational thought.
>>584225283I don't get why Torishima was so up Toriyama's ass about the cell saga designs in general. He was acting like Toriyama was some new mangaka and he needed to keep his nose to the grindstone to cultivate an audience like this wasn't fucking Dragonball.
>>584225182Thank you.
>>584225492No. You can't have an old antagonist. Even though the 21st WMAT had an old antagonist and not only rapidly redefined Dragon Ball from anothet Gag manga by Toriyama to a martial arts Manga, but spread a trope far and wide because of how popular it was.
>>584225845For me it's the implication that Dragonball's readerbase, who has been well established for years at this point, would instantaneously drop the manga because the boss dude was a bit too old and a minion too goofy. These are the actions an editor would take to protect a manga that's imminently being axed, not fucking Dragonball
>>584226274I mean that's true but "You are taking this popular series into an unwstablished unconventional direction, make it more safe" is at least comprehensible as a motivation. Toriyama's former editor sperging the fuck out about an old antagonist is like if Akira Toriyama's editor sperged out about how nobody is going to take a vampire villian seriously. This is litteraly charted waters that were extremely fruitful.
>>584227648I think what helps about Jackie is that he was already an established, liked character long before the tournament was planned to be a thing, and an old martial arts master is a classic. Gero by comparison is just some old guy, and 19 looking so goofy doesn't help.
>>584229446Demon King Piccolo was also an old dude with goofy looking minions, though. Sure he's introduced with the death of Krillin, but Gero also introduces himself as a no-nonsense monster. Fucked up that Torishima considered gero and 19 too radical and to abort but Goku fucking dying and Gohan taking over was just fine
>>584225006Yes?Sure, you can explain all the issues his arc had, but Cell as a character was good
>>584231786ehhhh. Imperfect Cell's pretty good But perfect Cell is just kind of generic badguy dragonball Villian. He generally has essentially nothing to do with Gohan as a character (or even Goku, really) so as a final antagonist he kinda falls flat. Even DKP was made personal with the death of Krillin.
>>584229642>Demon King Piccolo was also an old dude with goofy looking minions, though.Piccolo Daimaoh looks like a giant monster, and him looking old makes him look more malicious somehow, and at least Tambourine looks threatening. Plus, at the time Torishima was Toriyama's editor, so he would see the designs Toriyama was coming up with and reject them if they were too goofy (How Drum got past the Torishima is anyone's guess though). By comparison, 19 and Gero aren't nearly as imposing.>Fucked up that Torishima considered gero and 19 too radical and to abort but Goku fucking dying and Gohan taking over was just fineSpecially since he was vehemently opposed to Goku growing up, so killing him off is even more extreme. It's possible that by that point he just let DB go though.
>>584231947Early Perfect Cell was cool because he felt like an evil Goku, a martial artist who mocks his opponents to throw them off (As Goku did that against Nappa and Freeza), but Cell takes it further because he wants to break his opponent's spirit while he's at it. After his fight with Trunks he doesn't do anything interesting and is just Super Vegeta but more evil.
https://youtu.be/Mgpv18ccvVMLoving this era of Super Hope Chunniball stays.
https://bsky.app/profile/fiendjr.bsky.social/post/3mxn5npqd2k2a
>>584222962Deserved
>>584170170Piccolo's young concubines
>>584232692The Cell Games was a pretty cool idea and leaned towards him being a martial artist. The issue is the Cell Games matter exactly zero as a narrative framing and only exist to be an arena for Goku and Cell to fight in until he blows that up too
>>584232230>By comparison, 19 and Gero aren't nearly as imposing.No you are doing that with hindsight, knowing that he is narrative fodder. He has a lot of intimidation and cool factor until SSJ Vegeta shows up and I think they had already stopped being the main antagonists.>>584229446>an old martial arts master is a classicOld mad scientist is also a classic, I don't think Japan was entirely ignorant.
>>584234521Toriyama just really likes tournaments. It does make sense since they're the easiest way to build up an antagonist without having to write Goku out of the plot. IIRC, Kondo told Toriyama to do away with tournaments, and I think he stopped being Toriyama's editor around the time Cell became perfect, and not long after that, Cell randomly decides to make a tournament...
>>584235183The Cell games just isn't a tournament in any way that matters, though. Because Goku and Gohan are the only fighters. Every other tournament arc has been a bunch of different matchups that have their own thing going on but the Cell games is really only just Goku versus Cell. By the time Gohan is here the entire pretense of the Cell Games has been dropped
>>584224809>Also I gotta say the people who think Krillin didn't spare 18 because he thought she was hot are copingNo 18 being hot and kissing Krillin was the required catalyst for empathy. I think you are being silly if you think he would have killed 17 if 18 was absorbed first.
>>584235449only if 17 kissed him
>>584235309>>584235183Importantly Cell can enfore a 1v1 easily without the pretense of the Cell Games, it isn't the pretense of the Cell Games that stays *anyone's* hand, it's the fact that Cell could instantly deltarune Earth with a hand gesture and then Piccolo would be left standing there to fail to 1v1 Cell.
>>584235543Imagine 18 kisses Krillin, then 17 kisses him as a joke, and then 16 kisses Krillin as well because he thinks it's a social norm kek.
>>584200724Why is Seripa's armor so good?
>>58423580980s aerobics look is distilled sex, always has been
>>584235809makes me wish saiyans modified their armor more to have unique looks. Gine's pretty alright with her skirt.
>>584235678Cell just wanted to make the heroes fail or die to scare everyone watching the games
>>584235150>No you are doing that with hindsightI am not, I'm talking purely about their designs, which's why I wondered how Drum got past Torishima since he looks silly. Piccolo Daimaoh looks like a monster while Gero only looks like an old guy, and 19 indirectly drags down Gero further because his design is just not it. I won't deny he's evil as fuck though, because when it comes to his actions, Gero was the most malicious villain yet. He just went on a rampage for no reason (Even Freeza was willing to talk, even if it was to threaten Namekians), and the way he killed people, particularly >>584201938, was just brutal.>>584235150>Old mad scientist is also a classic, I don't think Japan was entirely ignorant.Fair enough. Although I'd say old scientists typically make a monster more threatening than they are, so the scientist is only meant to look creepy and typically not someone throwing hands... Although there are old scientists who make modifications on themselves and they become monstrous looking, but by then they don't look just look like old guys generally.
>>584237132I think my issue with Cell is that he kind of has nothing under the hood as a character once he hits perfect. He just wants to seal club people and make them feel fear. Which is about as default of a villian as you can get. Frieza at the very least has a lot of stuff going on with his subordinates and buu has hyper unique coreography. Perfect Cell doesn't have anything going on for him aside from his design looking Cool. Even his ultimate attack is just a Kamehameha
>Superkeks jumped to premature conclusions again
>>584204362Not if they didn't know about ancient models like that
>>584237535>Frieza at the very least has a lot of stuff going on with his subordinatesPlus his overly polite speech pattern while he war crimes Namekians.>and buu has hyper unique coreography. And Fat Buu was the most unique DB villain yet personality-wise, and Kid Buu was a fun kind of chaotic villain. Super Buu is the most generic one, but him outsmarting everyone and his fight with Gotenks helped him out too.>Even his ultimate attack is just a KamehamehaMost disappointing thing about Cell is that in the manga, he ONLY uses kamehameha (And eventually, IT, which's not even included among the techniques he knew), despite boasting about having everyone's techniques.
>>584238236Frieza also has the thing going on where he's weirdly one of the lesser seal clubbers. For the most part he doesn't care about personally nuking people and would rather just get the job done as fast as he possibly can unless he's personally pissed off or challenged.
Piccolo CANNOT shut the fuck up ever
>>584237998Boruto has fans?
>>584240152no, but Sarada does.
>>584240152Boruto having fans makes more sense when you divide them into two groupsThe first being that unsavory subsection of fans all long-running franchises have that consume anything new regardless of quality as long as its official and call you a fake fan for not liking it. DB's lousy with these guys, Avatar has them too, tmnt, etc. The second group is just a cult of contrarians and shitposters. It's why anytime you see Boruto discourse on social media it's almost never the plot, it's boruto fans in a flame war with other fanbases. JJK, chainsawman, OP, DB, even Naruto itself.
>>584191647If Chronoa shows up in XV3, I'm guessing her cooking gag's gonna get dropped. "Kai's don't eat now" and all that jazz.
>>584240339You forgot the third group that doesn't give a crap about the Boruto franchise just wants to fuck Sarada.
>>584240539what if she's such a bad cook BECAUSE she can't eat her own cooking
>>584240539Kaioshins not eating could be used to enhance that joke if anything. She can't eat her own food so it tastes bad, kinda like Futurama's Bender cooking being really bad because he's a robot and has no sense of taste.
>>584240741>Bayonetta but actually pretty
>>584241572they don't even look or behave remotely alike, get your eyes checked
>>584241572>Bayonetta but actually prettyI was around when Bayonetta released and I did not see it when people talked about how hot she was. IIRC the first trailer had the camera fly between her legs while she moaned, and I rolled my eyes at that. Something about her just wasn't really hot for me.
>>584191647>Do you think that means October is the new release date for DB animes?Maybe it has something to do with tv slots, or one piece or something?
>>584244997is there a reason this random ass saiyan's able to block an attack from first form frieza
>>584244997Why are they bleeding from their mouths when blocking an attack with their arms?
>>584235543>Almost checked sources for Krillin being explicitly not bisexualIt's just lame to point to a character who is straight at every turn, being bi because it isn't contradicted.
>>584248307Anon that was a joke
>>584248429Your joke technique has inadequate PL to hurt me, fool
>>584248307
>>584244997Also this is complete vibes on my part but that saiyan chick doesn't really look like a saiyan at all
>>584240741>>584241572TBV sarada's only pretty in fanart
>>584240230>>584240741Tossing Sarada's salad
>>584237357>I'd say old scientists typically make a monster more threatening than they areDoctor Robotnik and Doctor Willy are typically the final boses if their games and those are contemporary media with Gero's introduction pulling from the same cultural language.>I'm talking purely about their designsHis stoic practiced presence can be quite unsettling when he isn't pissing himself or running away, which is most of what you see him do, so I think it twists the perception of the design. I don't think any of the main DB villains looks intimidating outside of the context we find them in. Vegeta and Tien are just kind of guys, without context.>He just went on a rampage for no reasonFalse he was attempting to draw out the Z warriors, because if they come to him he can get the Alpha Strike easily. 17 thinks the same thing after whooping everyone on the backroad.
>>584238153Gero has all information about Goku's adventures... so long as they take place on Earth. Goku met 8, so they know about 8.
>>584250946That was before even the attack on the Red Ribbon HQ, surveillance hadn't started yet. Gero still knows the Muscle Tower incident happened and all but there is nothing useful for him there
>>584251084Do... the red Ribbon army not have normal cameras... no there are explicitly cameras in muscle tower actually
>>584251236Nobody is saying Gero doesn't know he made #8, but to assume #17 and #18 know everything Gero made is nonsense, they didn't even know about #16
>>584251543No but would Gero not have access to Red Ribbon army cameras in a base he as an Android stationed in? That would be especially strange.
>>584251753Who cares? Gero did not care about Goku yet at that time, this is a Goku who got fodderised by Tao Pai Pai
>>584251831But less than a week later the entire Red Ribbon Army would be destroyed, seems important to predicting Goku's growth to have data as far back as you can go.
>>584252101I'm sure he took a look at it but there is no reason for it to be in #17 and #18's database or something
>>584252206Why wouldn't it be when the events of the 5 year peace is
>>584252323?
>>584252391The bee drones? Did Gero... turn them off?
>>584252545They're not watching Goku taking a shit they recorded fights and even then there's no reason to think #17 and #18 have recordings of the fights in their memory
I keep forgetting we're going to have some big XV news in 2 days for IGN fest.I hope this time we FINALLY get a storymode trailer. They've shown everything else and none of it seems that exciting or interesting.
>>584244997This looks like horseshit.
>>584253019If the DB website mishap is any indication, we know for sure the release date is gonna be shown off soon.
>>584252684I thought Cell said they were always watching. Also what is Gero's information otherwise.
>>584253815The bees are always watching but Gero isn't. He explicitly stopped watching around Saiyan Saga
>>584253884No he explicitly didn't send the bees to Namek or off Earth generally
>>584253815It doesn't mean watching their private lives while nothing is happening you retarded autist
>>584254064I mean, that is true, but he also explicitly didn't watch past Saiyan Saga because he felt like he had enough data. He explicitly did not watch the events of the Trunks fight despite the fact that we know the bees were watching that
>>584254224The Cell bees in particular are autonomously operated by the computer with no direct involvement from Gero
>>584254224>we know the bees were watching thatFrom DBS? Yeah I guess, but in Dragon Ball we don't know that.
>>584254578Cell explicitly says so in the manga Dragon Ball by Akira Toriyama, yes
>>584254578No, from Cell Saga. Cell remarks about the DNA sample collection from Frieza and King Cold. Even remarking that they could have gotten Trunks too but chose not to.
>>584254703I imagine they surely did collect his DNA but then decided not to use it after analysis
>>584254442 Even if you segregate the Gero cameras and the cell cameras, Gero still explicitly didn't watch Trunks kill Freiza, as he had no clue who the hell he was or what super sayian was
>>584254205But it is in his database, which is what we are talking about I don't think Gero physically checked every second of footage, but the footage still exists.>>584254652Cell doesn't say that. Cell says they got the cells of Frieza and Cold from their fortunate arrival on Earth. If the Bees watched the fight and are able to autonomously decide who is strong, why wouldn't they collect Trunk's cells.>>584254703>Even remarking that they could have gotten Trunks too but chose not to.So the computer is retarded despite having a litteral scouter inside.
>>584254976Yes, furthermore I take it to be obvious that Gero did not watch anything other than major battles whose locations were pinged to him by power radars
>>584255014>are able to autonomously decideThe computer decides>why wouldn't they collect Trunk's cellsSee >>584254804, but even if not, that would just mean the decision not to collect further Saiyan DNA was made before
>>584255014I mean, I don't really think adding the DNA of stronger saiyans would make him stronger? It's not like Trunks was a mutant or something. Cell wouldn't be getting anything special out of Trunks' DNA. as Cell seems to copy mostly specific racial things like Zenkai or Frieza's super hardiness. There's really no point in getting more than two samples
>>584255194Furthermore all of Trunks's power comes from Vegeta's DNA which Cell already has
>>584255194Cell knows the Kamehameha genetically. Cell could have learned one of Trunk's many iconic techniques such as...
>>584255470I mean we can't PROVE he didn't know heat dome attack beforehand
>>584255470That's not how genes work and it's not a special Dragon Ball rule either because Gohan didn't genetically inherit the Kamehameha either, you are grossly misreading the scene, Cell's Kamehameha is based mainly on Saiyan arc data which is why Piccolo thinks it's not as good as the modern Kamehameha
>>584255617>That's not how genes workNo I agree, I think it's nonsense.>Cell's Kamehameha is based mainly on Saiyan arc data which is why Piccolo thinks it's not as good as the modern KamehamehaWhich isn't how the Kamehameha works, since you either learn it properly or you don't, there is no mention of needing to improve upon the base technique.
>>584255934>there is no mention of needing to improve upon the base technique.The super kamehameha does exist, to be fair. I don't malign you for forgetting it exists, though. It's essentially a videogame only thing.
>>584255934>there is no mention of needing to improve upon the base techniqueGoku throws shitty Kamehamehas in the first arc and has to improve it, then in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai he uses the Cho Kamehameha which is different in some ways, ki can be used any way you want and there is no strict technical statistical delineation of a Kamehameha, holy fuck I hate you
>>584256076>Goku throws shitty Kamehamehas in the first arc and has to improve it,But that's improperly learned ala 22nd WMAT Krillin vs Chaiotzu>>584256009Once it was argued that the Super Kamehameha was just bigger not stronger by this general.>ki can be used any way you want and there is no strict technical statistical delineation of a KamehamehaBut it can be "improper" as stated by Roshi. The idea that Goku is constantly making better versions of the Kamehameha like he is final fantasy mage, is entirely missing outside of this scene. In fact outside of improper Kamehamehas the idea that some ki blast techniques are inherently and always better than others is never stated or even implied.
>>584257225It is understood that everyone's techniques are always getting better as part of what they do while training and nobody struggles with this idea except you
>>584257345except for vegeta who sometimes makes entirely new attacks that are probably better than the last one, I think. Is stuff like light grenade even a proper attack? Is it only a proper technique if it's named?
>>584257494Vegeta's Technique doesn't have a name but is a waza nonetheless, yes
>>584257345No, then should Master Roshi's 400 year's of practive Kamehameha destroy Goku's instead of clashing. A properly learned Kamehameha is a properly learned Kamehameha, and the main determining factor is the PL of the user.I think you don't understand what DB is saying because the video games have a Final Fantasy Mage style system where you aquire direct upgrades to your previous techniques.>>584257494You are talking to a guy who thinks Ki Blast Techniques aren't real in the typical sense, despite the Raditz fight happening.>except for vegeta who sometimes makes entirely new attacks that are probably better than the last one, I think. I wouldn't think so, at no point does anybody look at a beam technique and says that it is simply better than another, barring of course Roshi comparing Krillin's improper Kamehameha to a proper one. The closest we get is that the Special Beam Cannon has a higher boost than the Kamehameha, but the Special Beam Cannon is one of the few techniques to have an explicit drawback.I am certain that the opinion of Dragonball is that all beam techniques are situational side grades to each-other. The only ones ever made explicitly made more powerful than another have the only explicit drawbacks in the series. The Tribeam and the Special Beam Canon.
>>584258594>I wouldn't think so, at no point does anybody look at a beam technique and says that it is simply better than another,I mean, there's the dodonpa in comparison to the kamehameha
>>584258594>I think you don't understand what DB is sayingAnon you are the retard who is getting mad about the manga disagreeing with your headcanon about how techniques work
>>584258862Xenoverse isn't the manga, Goku never learns the Kamehameha 2
>>584257723Then what is the line between a technique and not a technique? Is Vegeta doing that fuckass finger gun thing to Buu a technique? Is that bigass ball kid buu uses to destroy the earth a techique? Am I a technique?
>>584259025He does however learn the Cho Kamehameha and Piccolo remarks on Goku's present Kamehameha as of the Cell arc being better than in the Saiyan arc in a way beyond just the power of the user>>584259150Yes
Lmao
>>584259975Does torishima like anything
>>584260146No
>>584259217>He does however learn the Cho Kamehameha and Piccolo remarks on Goku's present Kamehameha as of the Cell arc being better than in the Saiyan arcGoku knew the Super Kamehameha before the Sayian Saga, and he is never shown using a Super Duper Kamehameha.I suppose I forgot about the Neo Tri Beam as another potential direct upgrade, but neither is actually established to be directly superior to their standard counterpart.
>>584260310Yamucha also uses the Shin Rogafufuken in the 22nd Tenkaichi BudokaiToriyama is averse to making characters call out attack names in general, much less specifying it as a distinct version of it every time>neither is actually established to be directly superiorKill yourself
>>584260146He likes cock probably
>>584260146He liked the idea of Goku hooking up with Bulma.
>>584259975Based Torishima, that shit sucked
>>584258769That is explicitly the "improper" one. Roshi says a hastily thrown together, Kamehameha can't beat a dodanpa, and he is saying that because Krillin was only able to start producing Kamehamehas in the match, and he compares the improper Kamehameha to the Dodanpa.
>>584261184This... is why I use single page Screenshots...
"Techniques" are not Pokémon moves with specific base power which is identical for every user and any human being with normal intelligence seeing Dragon Ball as it came out understood this, it is only uniquely autists who exclusively read bad English translations of the manga decades later who invent all these problems nobody ever had
>>584246231I'm assuming it's because the force of the attack is so strong it's causing internal damage. The storyboarding is also abysmal dogshit.
>>584260459>neither is actually established to be directly superior>Kill yourselfIt's true, and you know it. If we are just supposed to get that they are, why did Toriyama explicitly tell the Audience the downsides of SSJ1 can be dulled by using it more.
>>584261390It probably hasn't been that long but the pacing of this fight feels like we've been in this arc for months when there's literally nothing to be learned other than how bardock didn't die
>>584261487What the fuck are you talking about you actual disabled illiterate
>>584261603So in the Cell Saga Goku and Gohan use SSJ1 constantly to reduce its negative effects
>>584261985OK
It is simply pointless to debate secondaries who are too poor and whose attention spans are too short to watch the anime, which has a better translation, forces you to take things in context instead of ripping out pages constantly, and has you always hearing the original lines so you can better understand the tone and intent of what is being said
>>584262024I don't know what you were confused by then... oh!In the Cell Saga Goku and Gohan use SSJ1 constantly to reduce its negative effects, and Toriyama tells the audience this becuase you need to establish things.
>>584262214And this has literally fuckall to do with not calling out attack names much less redundant modifiers on attack names, they didn't even name the Super Saiyan grades and "Super Saiyan 2" is only said once in the manga
>>584262350>they didn't even name the Super Saiyan grades Of course not because the differences between them are made explicit to the audience.>>584261368That's my line. Techniques have no base power and so you never need to replace Peck with direct upgrades like Wing Attack. What you are saying is that Goku is constantly replacing the Kamehameha with a higher powered version.
>>584262997>What you are saying is that Goku is constantly replacing the Kamehameha with a higher powered versionI am saying the Kamehameha is constantly getting better, and indeed everything Goku does is constantly getting better, they are not distinct identifiable "versions" but it is rather just how martial arts work
>>584263156A spectrum of Kamehameha's is still replacing the previous Kamehameha wih a directly superior version, and if there is no true diffrence between them, why is the Super Kamehameha named?How does this accord with the Raditz fight is the power boost of the Kamehameha addative instead of multiplicative?
>>584053071Left
>>584264320>why is the Super Kamehameha named?To convey its high power to the audience, both in and out of universe>How does this accord with the Raditz fightDeez nuts
>>584264320>How does this accord with the Raditz fight is the power boost of the Kamehameha addative instead of multiplicative?How could anyone know this for sure
>>584264485I don't know you are the one claiming to have all the answers.If the Kamehameha is something that gets stronger in and of itself separate from your power level, why is Roshi's so weak for the 400 years of effort he put in. It matches Goku's and their Powerlevels are similar. It seems so clear to me that the Kamehameha is mostly based on your Powerlevel, though other factors explicitly effect it and make it variable.
https://youtu.be/UHKAk6_nvkA
>>584265106>>584264485And of course importantly getting tired makes your Ki Blast techniques weaker, if it isn't based on your Powerlevel and is just this mostly seperate thing, why does getting tired make characters select weaker versions.
>>584265465I'll subscribe to you anon
>>584265535If the amount of ki you have is lower, even if you have a higher multiplier it's gonna be a weaker beam because there's less ki to multiply. Regardless, I don't feel like we're ever going to have a conclusive answer because Ki is not a hard power system and doesn't really have rules like this.
https://files.catbox.moe/ge5iwb.mp4I BELIEVE IN MY POOOOOOOWERRRRRRIGHT NOOOOOOOOOOOOWNEVER LOSE I WON'T!"Just a little more" I wish, as I punch forward!Converting all my efforts and regrets into strengthBelieve not in someone else's power, But in yourself.
Have you guys warmed up on Beast over the years or do you still dislike it.
>>584266113I always found it funny and based, no change
>>584266113Yes because it belongs to Gohan, I never hated it but I have to admit I thought his hair looked ridiculously big
>>584266113>The final nail in the coffin for Gohan's character>Yay or nayNay
DB Super Remake really got people glazing AI Music. Hilarious how little standards these bots pretending to be humans actually are when they're not virtue signaling.
>>584265685I don't know. We seemed to be referencing how my interpretation doesn't concord with that one line from Piccolo, and the implications of certain names.I think there are many more references for my interpretation and anyone who wants to change people's minds needs to explain how these references aren't mine actually.
>>584255194>>584255189This got derailed why does getting Trunk's cells mean the bee drones saw the fight.
>>584266936I will simply not have such inane arguments with someone as daft as you
>>584266936Why wouldn't the bee drones have seen the fight? They have material from the fight, so they were probably there. Is there anything that contradicts this?
>>584267035So it doesn't because hair falls out and skin falls off.>>584267083Gero's database has no records of Trunks. If the scouters are deciding what is and isn't a major fight and saving it for later, Trunks should be in the database.
>>584259975old people are never happy
>>584267238That's because Gero stopped caring about the data since saiyan saga, he says as much himself. The data is probably there, he simply didn't look because he was confident enough in the powers of 19 and 20
>>584267365Dr. Gero is Torishima and thinks DB fell off with Super Saiyans
>>584267365No he says not in the Database. The Database appears to be automatic judging by how 17 and 19 identify people.
>>584266547Anonymous really got people glazing Bulma's chest.
>>584266113I dislike it less nowadays, but that's only because I got used to it.
>>584266113I still can't believe Gohan Blanco became canon.
>>584267745Doesn't this just at best imply the cell sample thing and what Gero is actively looking for are seperate things? He'd know what super saiyan is as well that Goku and the others are way stronger than they should be because of the three year gap if he was looking
>>584268132When would SSJ enter the Database? When Freiza and Cold died and three hours after which is what I am contesting, and if they followed Vegeta to space. One of which they definetly didn't.
>>584268132>Goku and the others are way stronger than they should be because of the three year gapNo because Gero views Goku and the others with his scouter and doesn't flinch. He predicted their growth as he says.
>>584266113The latter. I still think the hairdo looks stupid and I still think back on that one parody scene from KND whenever I think of Beasthan for w/e reason.I don't think much about it per se though, I just ignore him in games and such.
>>584266547>glazing AI MusicComparing it with AI music is not supposed to be a compliment for neither the track nor AI music.Far from it.
>>584268929If his information was so accurate why did he mistake Yamcha for Goku. Goku likely would have destroyed 19 if not for the heart virus, too.
>>584268929He said his data was wrong, though. He was just hoping 19 could absorb Goku's energy to make up for it.
>>584268672The chapter page implies Goku used super saiyan during training. That aside, Gero said specifically that he didn't care to follow Goku to Namek, not that he couldn't or something. Given this, I just think Gero didn't care to look at what Goku was doing even past that. the Cell DNA thing is a seperate project that Gero was explicitly not looking at in any capacity, either.
>>584269107>>584269298He is a Super Sayian that is what he didn't account for explicitly, because he didn't know. He has no reaction to Base Goku, he is scared of SSJ Goku.
>>584269670He was pretty nonplussed about Super Saiyan until he started beating 19's ass
>>584269531>The chapter page implies Goku used super saiyan during training.But chapter covers have weird shit all the time. The only actual panel has him training in Base.>That aside, Gero said specifically that he didn't care to follow Goku to Namek, not that he couldn't or somethingNot in contention, Gero doesn't actively check the database for new entries. This is borderline explicit. There were arguments that Gero's computer curates the database, and I agree, if Gero curates the database, he shouldn't be surprised that a guy he hasn't seen isn't in his database. And with how it is portrayed with 19 and Yamcha and 17 and... everything the Database is searchable, and if Gero didn't search the database in the moment he saw Trunks how did he know Trunks wasn't in the database.>>584269884I mean what are you going to do at this point and to be fair 19 does almost manage to kill a stronger Super Sayian after this so.
>>584270465>and to be fair 19 does almost manage to kill a stronger Super Sayian after this so.I don't think we should take Vegeta intentionally standing there like a dumbass as a feat
>>584270618No I will not let us derail again we are talking about the database the bees built.
>>584270465>The only actual panel has him training in Base.I don't think there's any panels of Goku training. We get the exchange where Goku is asking chichi to allow Gohan to train and then it instantly smash cuts to them leaving to go fight the androids. That chapter page is all we have.
>>584271018I mean by this point I think there's the database Gero built (he turned it off after Saiyan Saga) and the Database for Cell, which was solely concerned about getting DNA and didn't give a shit about anything else. So he didn't see Trunks or the three year gap training because he turned his stuff off.
>>584271053It existed this morning I swaer!!!! NO I JUST REREAD THIS PORTION I CAN'T MAKE UP PANELS.>That chapter page is all we have.I would argue that we know can't happen on covers that, I don't know why would take things that technically can happen as truth.>>584271198Then you are attesting that Toriyama wrote "This guy who I have never seen before isn't in 'our' database that I made and have to manually make entries for." You see how that is a foolish thing to write somebody to say, yes?
>>584271958>You see how that is a foolish thing to write somebody to say, yes?I mean, I think all we were supposed to take it as is "I have no idea who the fuck this guy is" in cool robot speak. Either way i'm pretty sure the implication is that the project got turned off, as I have no other way to interpret Gero saying he didn't follow him to namek because he thought he had enough data. It wouldn't make much sense to stop there and then continue monitoring them after they get back when it's implied Gero could have followed them if he wanted to.
>>584269107>why did he mistake Yamcha for Goku.He only sensed a high battle power nearby and wondered if that was Goku, but once he saw Yamcha he corrected himself. Weirdly enough, 16's sensors seem to be more accurate, as they can detect that Piccolo isn't exactly Piccolo, almost like 16's sensors can somehow detect whose battlepower it belongs to, while Gero's seemingly only detects numbers.
>>584271958>It existed this morning I swaer!!!! NO I JUST REREAD THIS PORTION I CAN'T MAKE UP PANELS.There is pic related where he trained with Gohan and Piccolo as a super saiyan, but nothing beyond that.
>>584273730Looking at it, we can't actually ever know if Gero's reading for Goku's base powerlevel was way off becasue Goku never actually reveals that information to Gero, he's supressed most of the time until he hits super saiyan. I'd say probably not, though. Like i'd imagine Goku got a lot stronger during the three year gap+ the namek zenkai. Probably, who knows, people are still fighting eachother over how big that zernkai was
>>584273945>Looking at it, we can't actually ever know if Gero's reading for Goku's base powerlevel was way off becasue Goku never actually reveals that information to Gero, he's supressed most of the time until he hits super saiyan.Goku did punch him in the face while enraged, so he wouldn't have supressed his power THAT much at that moment, and Gero is pretty unimpressed. By comparison, while he was overconfident when 19 was facing SS1 Goku/Vegeta, he has a shocked face the moment they throw only a few attacks. So Goku's base power is either within calculations, or above what Gero expected but not to a degree he cares about... Specially since Gero would likely keep kaioken in mind too.
Honestly now that we're on the topic its interesting that Gero makes no comment on Piccolo being back to life. Like, he did know they were going for the dragonballs to revive them so I guess it isn't that surprising but still
>>584250397>Doctor Robotnik and Doctor Willy are typically the final boses if their games and those are contemporary media with Gero's introduction pulling from the same cultural language.They do typically control a machine that's more menancing than them though. Willy in particular is down on his knees begging for forgiveness whenever Megaman takes down whatever robot he used, by comparison Gero is fighting by himself and that design isn't as imposing.>I don't think any of the main DB villains looks intimidating outside of the context we find them in. Vegeta and Tien are just kind of guys, without context.Fair enough. Freeza's ugliest form is the third one but the most menancing one is the final form because of the context surrounding it. Though I'd still say the problem is really 19. Gero looking like a an old dude is fine because it's based on his original body, and once his hat is off you can see the brain which looks creepy, and his actions really push him as someone particularly despicable, but 19 is just eh looking, and he was part of the duo who caused the apocalypse. >False he was attempting to draw out the Z warriors, because if they come to him he can get the Alpha Strike easily.Either way the point is that he was enjoying the rampage. Pic related is him smirking right after he ripped someone's neck off. Later he decided to be a jackass and kill the city's remaining survivors to "comply" Goku's request to fight somewhere with no one else. Gero is most definitely made to be yet another seal clubber, and unlike Cell or Super Buu, he doesn't even pretend to care about fighting someone strong.
>>584276172>They do typically control a machine that's more menancing than them though.As a brain in a jar, you can argue that's technically true for Gero as well
>>584275290I find it weirder Gero makes no comments about Vegeta. Last Gero saw Vegeta, he was running with his tail between his legs promising he'll come back to Earth and kill everyone. 4 years later, Gero's not surprised at all that Vegeta is on Earth and isn't killing everyone.>>584276172>As a brain in a jar, you can argue that's technically true for Gero as wellNever thought of it like that...
>>584259975Same, Torishima. The pacing was really bad.
New Toonami-styled Sparking Zero NEO trailer (with Sonny Strait doing his old TOM 1 voice).https://youtu.be/ID8AfahdJTo
>>584280523where do i find music like this unironically
>>584280523>this is the kind of shit burgers associate with DBJesus christ I'm so fucking sorry for you guys
>>584280523Boring honestly. Sounds like a AMV.
New xenoverse tomorrow yes?
>>584285664No, the 14th.
>>584240741I am an Uchiha female loverI love Uchiha femalesI want to kiss Uchiha females on the lips
Well here's Blueku for Gekishin Squadrafinal character before the overhaul https://youtu.be/ynBIMGFGnTs
>>584260586>/ss/ groomer
>>584266113I see it as equally dumb as God, and therefore don't lose sleep over it. the only good form from Super is UI.
>>584294252Prove it.
>>584281375it's just 90s/early 00s techno.
>>584294453Team attack with Blue Vegeta specifically is interesting looks strong as fuck not sure how that works though I assume the other player has a few seconds to input their ult too but if you play solo Q good look with that. This is the meta for the next 2 months for sure.
>>584294942they're all dead
>>584295560but they aren't, I checked.
I’m just so excited for Xenoverse 3!XV2 was a better game than XV1, but XV1 will always have a special place in my heart for giving me freedom in the DB world
>>584300524Based
>>584295775Salad doesn't count.
>>584300524I can't believe the age I'll be when XV4 comes out
>>584300961Prove it.
If Baki's author wrote a dragon ball spin off or one shot, how would it look like? Outside Goku becoming a gay rapist I mean.
SSJB Goku showcase: https://x.com/DB_Squadra_jp/status/2109841574540501044/video/1
>>584303684the cat would still be the strongest
What new info are we gonna get?
>>584304568Dating sim mechanics with explicit 5 hour long sex scenes.
>>58429454914 and 17 isn't too bad for back in the old days.
>>584304709Goku was 12 and Bulma 16 tho.
>>584191762>>584193345More often than not Super seethers haven’t actually consumed the series as a whole and just want to bitch at something for attention. Feel free to either ignore laugh at them.
>>584275290His computer curated database made a note of the Namek Dragonballs, since that is explicitly why they left Earth.>>584277186>Last Gero saw Vegeta, he was running with his tail between his legs, promising he'll come back to Earth and kill everyoneSure, but Gero has seen the 22nd and 23rd WMATs so he knows Goku has some talk no justu.
>>584273945>Probably, who knows, people are still fighting each other over how big that zernkai wasIt doesn't really matter how big the Namek Zenkai is because Base Goku is still above 1,000,000, seemingly substantially so, after leaving Earth at like 12-13k after the Vegeta Zenkai. Even if Vegeta didn't get any stronger once he is back from Namek, Goku has to be relatively close Base to Base, so over the 4 year gap Goku needs to catch him.
>>584304568Awakenings for Androids and Majinslikely a look at Super Saiyan God, BlueCharacters, outfits and story
Wouldn't it be funny if the Android awakening is just Potential Unleashed? Like after people speculating they could be Android 21 or Android 13, they just lazy out and give them an existing transformation and make it exclusive to them?
>TeamBT4 gave their GT Trunks some cool moves like the Kamehameha and the Finish BusterNeat.>Spike's GT Trunks is mostly unremarkable save for his SS1 ultimate which despite involving GT Vegeta ends with a generic energy beam, not even something cool like a Father-Son Galick Gun or Final FlashMeh.
Will SSJ4 appear in Super or nah? The best thing of Daima was bringing back that form, much better than just a recolor of Goku hair into red/blue
>>584313616Nigger, his ultimate in base form is great
>>584314550>Will SSJ4 appear in SuperNo
>>584315095Completely forgetting the transformation 1 year after and putting back in the fridge would be very lame, sad
>>584314550>Will SSJ4 appear in Super or nah?No, but if it happens, I hope it has GT's design with Daima's colors.
>>584195575Skinny isn't the problem, it's him looking like a fucking noodle
>>584314550>Will SSJ4 appear in Super or nah?Yes, but as an endgame form, like in every Buu continuation.
>>584241572Bayo2 Bayo is very cute with the short hair
>>584237998bottom is everythingfag autism though
>>584237998I bet bottom wont happen simple because Japs don't care about canon and Kishimoto will end up contradicting whatever happens in Boruto fuck he might even contradict shit from Naruto itself because he forgot stuff
>>584318702Hope that happens, the speculation will be funny
>>584142650LINEAGE OF EVIL.
>>584204445Funny...
>>584318702Japs care about canon because they are a society with organized religion that has sects internally and is aware of external cultures.
>>584321132>schizo theory out of nowherelollmao even
>>584321412>Japan has organized religion>Schizo theory
>>584321456nobody cares about your schizo theories fag, stop acting like an autistic child bringing religion where no one asked
>>584321132>Japs care about canonA lot of other big japanese franchises aren't very dependent on canonicity though. and even when they do, and let some westie handle it/pander to western fans, it turns into a divisive mess.
>>584322728>bringing religion where no one askedYou said Japanese people do not care about Canon. Wars have been fought over the canon of Bhudism, it would be unusual to fight a war over something *nobody* cares about.Avoid using and making claims about words with religious connections if you do not want to hear about religion.
>>584324324>A lot of other big japanese franchises aren't very dependent on canonicity though. I don't know what this means. Well I guess I do but it either means you think Japanese stories don't depend on being a series of events, or you think Western Stories are desperate not to contradict previous events. You are very disconnected from at least one of the things you are discussing confidently.
>>584325127>Japanese stories don't depend on being a series of eventsThey don't usually connect outright a lot, that's the entire point.>Western stories are desperate not to contradict previous eventsThis only happens if theirs some sort of mandate to keep everything right, but usually they obsess over canonicity the most because they want everything explained than just leave alone for what it is.
>>584325127>>584324324The only cultures that produced artists that don't care about canon are the USSR and communist Chezchoslovakia, and that tells you nothing about the people, because their continued ability to make art isn't connected to the audience to the same degree it is in America or Japan
>>584324507>japanese do care about canon, just a hundrends years ago when they were a literal who country obeying the samurai!Lol
>>584326006That explains Tomino's perspective on Gundam's canoncity of events at least.
Tomino is not leftwing btw, just a fencesitter.
>Bro, I swear this entire country doesn't care about a basis franchise conceptYou guys really got mindfucked by coping youtubers
>>584325837So westerners often have a hyperfixation on canon and can be retarded around it. See people who try to force every peice of media in a franchise into a single canon timeline, even in series like Sonic or Mario, because they will only accept something isn't in continuity when bottlefed as such. Or more importantly many westerner greatly over value something being not canon to what the corporation is currently producing to a retarded degree. I had to cut a massive wall of text on why I think that happened, but it did happen. What I think Japanese people on average don't care about is that "Super isn't a sequel to Daima, this means Daima is worthless" just isn't a thought an average Japanese audience member has. Because that concept is so popular in the west, I think that you and most mangka that claim canon is a western idea, I think they bake these concepts into the definition of canon.
Do you mostly just use here to hide from /dbs/ so you can discuss the anime in peace? You don't seem to talk about videogames as much as you do the anime.
>>584331848I use this place to talk about anything related to DB without the shitposting and that includes games. Some /dbs/ rejects do break containment but they're pretty easy to ignore
>>584331961Does Maron imply Kuririn wants to be with Bulma?
>>584331848I mean to be fair anon, there's only so much to discuss about dragonball games. I feel most generals do talk about stuff around their games and not strictly just the games and nothing else. Gacha generals can generally get away with just talking about the games, though.
>>584332139Pretty much everyone except for General Blue wants to fuck Bulma. Hell, Goku is more attracted to her than his own wife.
>>584326006>that don't care about canon are the USSR and communist ChezchoslovakiaI can think of many works that don't give a shit about canon.Gundam was already mentioned, where the UC outright has many contradictory works that Sunrise just tosses together as "The UC" (like Unicorn and Hathaway, or The Origin, or Thunderbolt, etc.), but there's also>Dragon BallAs we all know very well.>Fullmetal AlchemistThey deliberately made an alternative work that rewrote vast swathes of the story. The 2003 anime was always intended to be its own thing rather than a part of the manga series as either adaptation or expansion.>Kaiji, Detective ConanBoth of these are sliding timeline works. Kaiji's Ichijou spinoff is explicitly intended to integrate with the main series and its ending alludes to that idea, but Ichijou gets covid and has a nintendo switch, despite Kaiji still being set around 1999/2000 currently.Conan is more flagrant. He used to use a Fax Machine, but the most recent chapters had him upgrading Ran's flip phone to a smart phone.>JoJo's Bizarre AdventureProbably the most blatant example of nobody giving a shit.Thus Spoke Rohan Kishibe is set shortly after Part 4 (based on cast designs), yet Rohan's adventures tend to include modern elements.Dio's coffin is used by Erina to escape, yet Dio later uses it in Part 3 to survive the ending of Part 1.The entire series just reboots into a completely different, unconnected continuity midway through, etc.A canon, as in a set of works following a rigid narrative timeline, is a largely western conceptualization.A canon, as in a body of works agreed to be the primary materials of a given series, is a fairly common conception though. These two definitions of canon are not the same.
>>584335148>"The UC" (like Unicorn and Hathaway, or The Origin, or Thunderbolt, etc.)Origin and Thunderbolt are explicitly not canon to normal UC, though. They're both AU UC. ESPECIALLY Thunderbolt.
>>584335286>Origin and Thunderbolt are explicitly not canon to normal UC, though. They're both AU UC....until Sunrise puts out an official timeline where they're slotted in. The more flagrant example of canon not mattering would be how Turn A just goes "Everything happened" though, or again, the existence of Hathaway, which doesn't really work with the film version of CCA or Unicorn, and Unicorn itself doesn't work with works taking place after it in general.
>>584335556Depends on what part of thunderbolt you're talking about. The first part of the series can easily slot into UC, but i've never seen any inkling of the latter part being able to be slotted in into anything. Especially since it's just a full on alt timeline by the end. Like this isn't Sentinel where it's happening on stuff not elaborated on during the series it's straight up rewriting entire factions to be something different
Is Sparking Zero really that bad? I'm not sure if I should buy it since XV3 is coming next year.
>>584331848Im hiding from another shitty general because they seriously can't have a normal discussion for one second.
>>584335148If having a plot hole is your bar for not caring about canon, I can safely say no culture produces artists that care about canon, and it is not a uniquely Japanese thing.In reality, all story tellers care about canon. Otherwise, they would create a series of abstract unrelated events as Czechoslovakian films are known for being. The events of panels are almost always influenced by the previous panels in... every manga I have read. Sometimes panels contradict previous panels, but never because the mangaka doesn't care that events follow from each-other, but rather that they didn't realize they were in contradiction, or they valued a different narrative goal higher. Audience members care that panels follow from other panels, but many not notice an error and are willing to "forgive" errors, especially if that error gave them something they care about more than the break in canon.>The 2003 anime was always intended to be its own thing rather than a part of the manga series as either adaptation or expansion.To make this decision intentionally requires awareness of the concept of canon.
>>584336715I love itI have 669h hours
>>584335148I feel like most of these are just true for something like marvel, dc, 40k, star wars, really just any large body of work that has a lot of people involved in it. extremely strict canon is something that's only really possible on a small scale
>>584335148>>584337525With Dragonball specifically, we know it cares about canon, because Toriyama occasionally takes time to retroactively explain how certain things make sense after the fact. Bulma asking Goku how he got off Namek on panel serves no other purpose than to bolster canon, there are a few panels like this.Dragon Ball isn't perfect, the Recoom zenkai breaks canon, but it doesn't prove that Dragon Ball doesn't care (especially since they try to hide it) it shows that Dragonball valued narrative pacing over this relatively small hole.
Roshi is the protagonist of the 21st WMAT
>>584284991You don't like AMVs?
>>584339468Bulma is the protagonist of Dragon Ball
21 looks different today
>>584314550SS4 is too distinct a transformation to fit into Super
>>584314550DBS Beerus is just trying to look better than the original run, I don't think we're getting any kind of alternate story.
I'm the protagonist
Piccolo Jr, Cell and Buu have no minions.
>>584347984Majunior doesn't directly have minions, but Tournament arcs work as effectively the same thing (minor fights meant to build up to the power of the big bad, because you know he's gonna be the strongest of the guys goku fights)
>>584347984I HAT MY BRAINCELL HAS MINIONS
>>584348142
>>584348142I'd hesitate to call the cell juniors minions in the same way drum or nappa was a minion. They don't really build up cell as a threat by transistive property because we just already know how much stronger he is compared to everyone else
>>584347984Gohan is Ma Jr's minion
This whole canon talk and how much Japan cares about it reminds me of Devil May Cry. In interviews, Bingo, the franchise's main writer since DMC2, talked about the time he was writing for DMC3, and how initially it was written like an alternate universe because of how much it contradicted DMC1 and its novel because Vergil's presence in DMC3 contradicts both. Kamiya, DMC1's director, said it's fine, and Bingo commented Kamiya never cared much about continuity. Itsuno, DMC's director at the time, told him "If it's cool, do it". In short, there are interests in keeping canon consistent, and in DMC, Bingo tried to do so, but others don't care as much, and that's pretty normal.
>>584344339a design too good for her series
Get in niggers - https://dragonballbt3.online/
>>584353054playing on browser is subhuman behavior
>>584353054No thanks I have an emulator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeHCaK_T6csSSB Goku's Squadra trailer.>His passive seems to be similar to Jiren's. Build up a gauge that powers up his rush attack and increases his damage and speed, and it resets to 0 if you don't attack for a while. The difference is that Goku's powered up attack is a single hit very damaging punch and doesn't seem to remain active>S1 seems to be a move meant to deal with players at a distance as the description talks like it hits harder if you're far, and it increases movement speed too, so better to use it when fighting characters like Toppo and Dabura. It can also work as a way to close distance if S2 is on CD>S2 is a two hit dash in type of move. Second hit looks pretty vanishable.>S3 is similar in nature to Godgeta's S2, or Gogeta's S3. A field that surrounds them where the character can use other skills>Ult is a big beam where he can move while charging it, and it gives him armor>The team attack that showed up in the teaser is exclusive to Bluegegeta, where both use their ults combined. It looks cute but in practice it won't be used much outside of squads, as Bulma's ult is similar in nature and almost never gets used that way. Seems like its best use will be against bosses, or to do a team wipe.>Curiously, the trailer doesn't mention that ult fills up SSB Goku's passive gauge, even though you can clearly see it happening. It seems only the ult and rush attacks fill up the gaugeHe seems, solid. Brawlers have a hard time in this game though, and he doesn't have any move that buffs his defenses, debuffs the opponent's attack, or gains armor (Aside from the ult for the last one). Not really sure how useful the passive gauge will be given how limited in use rush attacks become at late game, though it seems to be a tank killer...
>>584351080Sure but I can sight western creators saying similar things, like director for the MarvelS saying the literal phrase "who cares about continuity"
>>584355507IMO I think the main thing is that the average person doesn't care that much about continuity, but the average schizo both here and in japan care about it a lot
>>584355626They do care, and while they only care a little about strict continuity, it scales with how important they find something and how easy it is to ignore. If a flashback happened in the Buu Saga that revealed that Goku never defeated Frieza and got high on healing pod juices and imagined that he did, people wouldn't take it well.
I programmed an AI to act like Android 21 and immediately went rogue and tried to rape me
>>584348582>>584348125I don't want to say this especially with the hypocrisy of it but you need to talk about media less. You are mistaking the role minions generally fulfill (in basically all media, but especially in Eastern fighting comics) and the litteral meaning of the word. We could call those that fill that role narrative minions, but that wasn't what I was talking about. All major Dragonball antagonists have minor antagonists that serve as "put overs" for them, including Cell and Buu. It's just that their put overs aren't minions but seperate and related antagonist groups, which is odd because they are back to back and we just got off the Sayian Saga and the Frieza Saga which both use exclusively minions as antognistic put overs.Now that I think about it the Cell Jrs are the only combat capable minions to not be used in this role.
>>584357858No I'm aware, I was going to do a whole post about the two working definitions of minion and who fits into what (like how pui pui fits into the standard definition of minion, but does not build up Buu) but I decided not to because I couldn't figure out how to phrase it
>>584354909Looks and sounds fun and on a premade team I'm sure people will absolutely wreck especially when people go for bosses and when it's the last tower or 2. Not looking forward to solo queue double dps lanes because of it.
>>584358068>but does not build up BuuIf anything, Buu is meant to be a subversion of the usual formula.>Vegeta fights Pui Pui and deals with him in base form>Yakon was getting punked by base form Goku, and casually got killed in a stupid way>Dabura is actually strong, but is only Cell level. He barely damaged Gohan during their fight>All of this builds up Buu as a jobber that Goku can casually deal with even if he does awaken>Buu turns out to be so strong that no amount of SS2s could deal with him, and even Goku's SS3 wasn't enough
>>584344339majin females are ment to be breed by human cock. it was our porn that gave them existence.
>>584359694Dabura at the very least does establish that buu is likely going to be above cell level, so I think he does fit to build up buu in a way
>>584359803>so I think he does fit to build up buu in a wayAgreed, but it still can give one the impression Buu isn't going to be that impressive even if he's stronger than Dabura. Gohan is talked about like he's the weakest among the saiyans in Babidi's ship, and Dabura is the strongest of Babidi's minions, and they're roughly on the same level. Typically Goku is the one who's strong enough to deal with the strongest minions while everyone else loses to build up the main villain's threat, but Buu saga had the strongest minion be incapable of beating the weakest saiyan, so Buu sounded like he'd be the strongest villain yet, but easily manageable because of how much Goku grew in power.
>>584361365>Typically Goku is the one who's strong enough to deal with the strongest minions while everyone else loses to build up the main villain's threat,Unless you're Gohan in Bojack Unbound wherein only Trunks gets to beat a minion until the last 5 minutes of the movie kicks in and the main protagonist gets a power up
>>584337525>If having a plot hole is your bar for not caring about canon,Most of what I listed was explicitly disregarding any sense of canon. I don't even know which one in my list you could be referring to with this complaint.>The events of panels are almost always influenced by the previous panels in... every manga I have read. This is a retarded definition of canon and you know it. It is disingenuous and not what anyone on the face of the fucking planet was ever talking about.Of course a singular work tends to have a narrative progression, but what is being discussed here is franchise works. Fucking idiot.>To make this decision intentionally requires awareness of the concept of canon.And the choice to disregard it.>>584339019>With Dragonball specifically, we know it cares about canon,Toriyama's last work was Daima, which contradicted everything he had worked on for over an entire decade. Not by mistake, completely intentionally contradicted all of it.
>>584361725Canon means continuity they are true synonyms, fully interchangeable words
>>584362231And you're being disingenuous if you just go "Well, there are pages in a sequence, so everyone cares about canon".Considering you just desire to be a retard who says nothing, I will not dignify you with another response.
>>584361536>Unless you're Gohan in Bojack Unbound wherein only Trunks gets to beat a minion until the last 5 minutes of the movie kicks in and the main protagonist gets a power upGokua is pretty much the Saibamen/Guldo/19 equivalent (Maybe you can include Cymbal too, but Yajirobe was roughly on Goku's level). A particularly weak minion a non-Goku (Or in this case, non-Gohan) is allowed to defeat. Gokua is particularly funny however, since he's the only one from Bojack's gang aside from Bojack himself who can transform, and he's still the weakest one kek.
>>584313616I don't like GT and even I feel insulted you pretended base GT Trunks' ultimate isn't pure kino
>>584362571>but Yajirobe was roughly on Goku's levelNo
>>584364812>>584362571It's an understandable misread, I shouldn't have reacted so angrily.
I was reincarnated into Dragon Ball but became the rape slave of the strongest fodder
>>584371120hot
How many custom episodes like pic related did we get after SZ's release?
What do you think we'll see tomorrow with xenoverse 3? I'm surprised that stupid fuck Geekdom hasn't leaked anything, do we even know what time it's suppose to start?
>>584294973yeah and where? recs?
Retards are crying about Torishima breathing and drinking water again
>>584395026why are white people like this
>>584383960Literally Gohan abuse
>>584395026I'm not reading all that
IGNfest Tomorrow at 1PM. What new thing do you guys think they'll show for XV3?
Yakkon on base roster
>>584397513Dating sim.
>>584398683Dating sim with Yakkon where it is revealed that they are female.
>>584399971Based
>>584358068I need to table everything before the 22nd WMAT Saga. I also need to restrict definitions of minion a little more than it should be, first if your superior dies in one hit to the protagonists, the highest ranking guy who doesn't is exempt from being a minion even if he meets the definition otherwise. And we are only talking about antagonists for now. Also characters that die in one hit don't exist at all actually.The literal definition of a minion is just a servile subordinate. So any subordinate not materially planning a betrayal. I am fairly confident in my ability to name every single non-minion minor antagonist with the above criteria.Chun (22nd WMAT), Tao Pai Pai (23rd WMAT), Android 20, Android 17, Dabra, Vegeta (Majin)Android 18 (Cell Saga) and 16 can be argued to not be minions of 17.Vegeta (Namek) also works against the protagonists, but nothing he does actually hinders the protagonists, so like by the most autistic of technicalities you can include him.
>>584401687A narrative minion or fodder/jobber/put_above, is somebody who loses to make somebody else look better, this almost said exist to but that would be wrong.Most minor villains are used to guide the story towards the threat of the main antagonist, though not all of them do so in a direct manner, and a few exist to reassure the audience of the hero's power. You can see both of these abnormal types in the Senior Saga. Cymbal and Tambourine are jobbers for the heroes, but this builds up the villains, because Senior shows up and Goku, who we have been building up this whole Saga, becomes the Put Over for Senior. This is JJKs favorite trick Then Drum is there to show the audience that Goku has a chance against Senior, because Senior just had that much hype please stop starting games with Raditz I BEG OF YOU BANDAI Quite a few villains exist just for power scaling, though a portion exist out of mechanical necessity, but barring the Cell Jrs Toriyama just reuses them for scaling. Or rather not for scaling in a way that feels at all narratively meaningful or intentional, unlike other examples of minions actually being used to build up the heroes, Drum, Nappa and Jeice where Piccolo Sr, Vegeta and Frieza have so much narrative weight behind them it becomes hard to accept anyone fighting back those narrative minions defeat serve to say maybe Goku (Kid Final), Goku (Kai Trained) and Vegeta respectively are also in an entirely diffrent realm of power from the minions. Meanwhile Gohans slaughter of the Cell tells you that Gohan isn't just out of the minions league it tells you that he has basically already won this no problem, and he is completely beyond Cell... and like it's true, all drama in this fight comes from SSJ2 Gohan tripping over his shoelaces and needing Goku to tell him to tie them.
>>584359694It's so funny how after Piccolo concedes against Shin the grand wizard kai never gets another cool moment again and the entire cast treats him like a more pathetic bitch than Krillin.
>>584359694>>584402591And that's why you misunderstand the narrative build up of Buu. Pui Pui and Yakon are complete trash... I just thought of something I need to save it for later... and even Dabra is underwhelmingly strong for the Sayians. It builds up Vegeta and Goku super high, only for Fat Buu to plow right through them is narrative building for Buu.>>584401687>>584402591Minions can do more than power scale other characters and serve mechanical plot purposes. The reason I even got thinking about Minions is I was going to ask what Main Antagonist and Main Minion character dynamic was your guys' favorite. Frieza, in particular, benefits from his interactions with his two primary minions.I noticed myself interchanging heroes and protagonists and villian and antagonists, everyone know what i mean, I still shouldn't have done it.>>584404023Of course even we accept Kaioshin can beat Pui Pui pretty easily, Kaioshin is still KKx5 Goku levek at tops. Which is really pathetic for Piccolo who in the previous Saga could whoop the ass of KKx20 Goku. Krillin at least has the excuse of being a retiree from martial arts to excuse him from looking mega pathetic, Piccolo is not only not retired, he is explicitly training hard.
>>584405441I honestly just read it as Piccolo being part Kami now and putting respect on his old boss. Undeserved respect, as it turns out.
How do you know what tier characters will be added to in gekishin? I have a II coming up in 2 levels, will SSB Vegeta be added there like Super Vegetto was?
>>584405441>It builds up Vegeta and Goku super high, only for Fat Buu to plow right through them is narrative building for Buu.Anon, one thing doesn't exclude the other. Buu being so strong is a twist because everyone else before him who worked under Babidi were all so pitifully weak, and even Dabura was only a challenge because Gohan got lazy, and both Gohan and Vegeta comment his ki is nothing much to speak of after Buu is freed (Although Goku says something is weird about his ki). Buu being so strong that Vegeta can do nothing to him, and even Goku couldn't beat him makes him really strong, but it doesn't exclude that before he showed up, the buildup to him wasn't that impressive. Goku/Gohan/Vegeta not really struggling against Babidi's forces makes the twist that Buu is that far above everyone else work on Buu's favor, but again, it's a surprise that Buu was that strong to begin with, and before he's freed, one can assume he won't be that strong.
>>584354909As a super newbie, how do people feel about him from the perspective that he'll only exist for a month?
>>584411918The vast majority of Squadra players I've seen hate that the game is effectively ending soon, so they're probably not taking anything well right now.
>>584411280>How do you know what tier characters will be added to in gekishin?The devs push down tier 1 characters to tier 2 based on the oldest season. Currently the characters on tier 1 are from season 5 (Freeza, Goku Youth), 6 (Black, Beerus, Jiren) and 7 (Gogeta). So either Freeza or Goku Youth will drop down to tier 2, while SSB Vegeta will be the newest tier 1 character. And that's assuming they aren't adding a new tier 1, because if they do, then nobody drops a tier.>I have a II coming up in 2 levels, will SSB Vegeta be added there like Super Vegetto was?What's your current level? If your're pretty high then it might be worth it to use up all tiers. Once you use up say, all tier 4s, any other tier 4 will become tier 3, and once you use any tier 3 they'll become 2, and so on until 1, that way you can get everyone, except the latest character.>>584411918Players are annoyed the game is getting an overhaul that'll effectively delete this season's latest characters. It doesn't help that SSB Vegeta feels lazily made. To make matters worse, the game has a system where you can't get the latest character for free until the next character becomes available, which means it'll be impossible to play as SSB while the game is still a Moba without using gems, so anyone who didn't save gems will have to pay to use him, if they want to experience the character while the game is a moba.
>>584415561I'm at 137 now and my next I is light years away, so definitely not getting it before the rework. Good to see how they drop down, though.>it'll be impossible to play as SSB while the game is still a Moba without using gems, so anyone who didn't save gems will have to pay to use him, if they want to experience the character while the game is a moba.This does suck for you all, I'm sorry about that.
>>584416041>I'm at 137 now and my next I is light years away, so definitely not getting it before the reworkIt depend on how many character you have. Godku will become available for free at the end of the daily free characters campaign so if you don't have him that'd help, same for Ulthan since he's this week's free character. It still still a money sink though, because if you have the minimum amount of characters, you'll have 30 characters at level 180, all of them will need to be at level 6, and even then you'll be at level 180, so you'll need to get 10 characters to level 7, which will cost 75000 zeni just to get those characters to level 7... The battlepass helps, plus there's the twitch viewer that'll give 7000 zeni, but it'd still be a long way to go, it'd require a lot of battlepass grinding. Hopefully whatever is the next system that unlocks characters is better than this because this whole tier system and the star road is trash.
>>584417856I'm at 31 now, sadly have both gohan and godku. We'll see if more freebies show up, might hold off on grabbing characters until the last week to maximize free ones. Thanks for the napkin math!
>>58441936731 is a good number. It means you'll only need 4 characters at level 7 to get to Star Road level 190, and that's assuming that none of the tier 2/3 have any new character for you to use. If there's at least 1 character to be obtained, then you won't need any character to be at level 7 to reach level 180 (32*6=192), which's more affordable. Though given your amount of zeni you'd still need to grind the battlepass.
Sad news: Michael Kovax, known white supremacist, is voicing Goku in the next Death Battle
>>584422097Don't care.
>>584422097>known white supremacistBased>Death BattleCringe
>>584422149Disingenuous
>>584422231What?
>>584422097death battle has employed open convicted pedophiles and rapists and you think racism would make them balk? It's not 2012 anymore this has been normalized, nobody cares anymore, give it another decade and people won't even bother being mad about it anymore when it happens IRL, moralfagging is long dead.
>>584422912>moralfagging is long dead.I wish. You still have zoomers having mental breakdowns over drawings.
>>584422552new-sama...
>>584424401What kind of schizo nonsense are you on about?
I have never won a match so fast as I have with SSB Goku in Squadra.
>>584426654it's a common word here
I did lose my first match with SSB Goku because SSB Vegeta kept following me around hoping to try out the dual attack so I kept having to try and swap lane to make up for the fact he had abandoned his lane partner and in the end he quit because I wouldn't give him what he wanted.
>>584050468This new OP is 85% Goku 10% Beerus 5% anyone elseNow rename Super to Gokuper
>>584406296The problem is Toriyama used the exact same Kanji (with an ellipsis) to have Tien think about fighting Super Buu. It is supposed to be about strength and I think the english translation being ambiguous is a problem.
>>584427232our fuarking hero
Remember guys, 1 0 clock EDT is when the trailer drops so for me, I won't see anything until I get off work, I'm counting on you to post screencaps to rub in that one anon's face whose been posting fake leaks for weeks nowAlso more Rom, I wanna fuck Rom, I wanna pull her tail, I wanna stroke her tail, I want her to jack me off with her tail while rubbing her boobs on my chest
>>584427656You sound Indian
Ugh, perverts. I sure hope we won't have to deal with your kind when xv3 releases proper
I imagined it and now I'm horny before leaving for work, goddammit I hate you guys sometimes, I don't have time to take care of this
>>584426746It's not
>>584432749>>584432749>>584432749
>>584427656>Also more Rom, I wanna fuck Rom, I wanna pull her tail, I wanna stroke her tail, I want her to jack me off with her tail while rubbing her boobs on my chestBased
I love GT.
>>584447250you just like SS4
