the Ground type and the Steel type make me question why the Rock type exists
>>58186476Steel didn't exist originally.>ground can't hit flying for some reason>rock is super effective against flying for some reason>ground is weak to ice>rock is super effective against iceThere's little differences between rock and ground, but I agree they've got huge overlap.
>>58186476>>58186502Ground is for burrowing animals and grounded attacks (digging, tremors, mud), rock represents actual rocks.
They should remove rock's grass weakness.
>>58186521plants with vines destroy rocks all the time in nature.
i just don’t get why gamefreak is inconsistent with sand. sand attack, sand tomb, sandsear storm, and scorching sands are all ground type moves. sandslash, sandshrew, sandile, palossand, and sandygast are all ground type pokemon. soft sand boosts ground type moves. yet sandstorm is a rock type move and boosts the special defense of rock types
>>58186515Rock also represents stonework, crystals, rigidity, and roughnessGround is mainly just clay, mud, sand and tectonics
Onix should have a rock evolution
This could've all been solved if they were combined and called Earth type.
>>58186521Remove the weakness to Water and and a resistance to Ghost and Fairy.Three types that are overdue to be buck broken suddenly become humbled.
>>58186556based
>>58186476Rock exists to teach kids about the difference between physical and special attacks.Gen 1 Brock's ace in Onyx is the quintessential early game boss. Designed for that one encounter with its piss poor HP and crazy DEF & physical resistance from being a rock type.If you played red, blue, or yellow, as a kid, even if you were too young and couldn't read yet, then you would eventually learn about the difference even with the language barrier just by playing the game.Rock is a relic of the older game design.
>>58186476because rock is neither earth or metal
>>58186568Rock should be weak to water, it does get eroded by it after all. Ghost and fairy make sense though with rock resisting the spiritual typesInstead make Ice resist water and be super effective against water without needing freeze dry.
>>58186502>rock is super effective against flying for some reasonIt's because you can kill two birds with one stone.
>>58186556onix should get a stat buff. Instead of its current35/45/160/30/45/70it should be55/75/160/30/55/90 (bst: 465)which compares much more naturally to steelix's75/85/200/55/65/30and THEN we should get the onix prevolution that's only a little different from onix's previous stats, something like30/45/140/20/45/70 (bst: 350)but it's smaller like you would expect something with stats like that to have. Call it something like Minix for mineral + mini + onix. It writes itself, really.But I definitely wouldn't mind a rock evolution for onix either, I was just thinking about this the other day so I figured I'd autismdump at you.
>>58186582>Rock is a relic of the older game designNow it's POOR game design.
>>58186978Onix should have the same BST as Steelix as it is a Metal Coat evo, like Scyther and Scizor.
>>58187106does pineco not gain stats when it evolves into forretress? I feel like the stat redistribution thing is just for scyther considering kleavor did the same thing
>>58186568Now that I think about it, shouldn't Ghost technically be immune to pretty much every type instead of just normal and fighting?>can't throw a rock or iron at a ghost because it'll just go right through it>ground moves like earthquake or dig can't hurt ghosts because they can just float away from the attack>ghosts can't get poisoned because they're already dead>can't get burned by fire or splashed by water since it'll just phase right through them>plants are stationary and wouldn't be able to do anything to a floating object, let alone a floating object that's transparent and can be phased through>you can't freeze a ghost because it can just float through the ice>a ghost can't get zapped because it's a ghost and it's already dead>a normal average human or a karate master can't attack a ghost, but for some reason, other living beings like birds, bugs, fairies, and dragons CAN...? (Though fairies and dragons are mythical creatures, so I guess MAYBE they could still somehow attack them?)The only two types I could still see working are psychic and dark since those types are more associated with magic and mysticism, and they could use their magical powers to ward off or control the ghost. Regardless, this got the ol' noggin thinking.
>>58187139actually iron historically is claimed to be effective against ghosts, just like against fairies. Go figure.
>>58187138Forretress evolves normally at lv 31.
>>58187141Interesting...
>>58187141Yeah, Steel really should be super effective against Ghost.
Make Rock resist Ghost, maybe Rock and Bug too but those wouldn't help because Steel already resists those.>Muh weaknessesNothing that teambuilding can't fix. Besides the reason why Ice is bad isn't nearly because of its weaknesses rather that it resists nothing.
>>58187167what? really? I wonder why I thought it evolved with metal coat.
>>58187221Probably because it becomes a Steel type like Onix does in the same game, but to this day, Steelix and Scizor are the only Metal Coat evos.
>>58186476rock and ground should have just been earth type from the beginning. Steel is cool though since it's alot different than earth from a weakness/resistance perspective, so it can stay.
>>58187295>EarthGeneric and uninspired
>>58187295>>rock and ground should have just been earth type from the beginning.this is lame because it works conceptually but dismisses the very real functional differences the two types bring. They're completely polar offensively and show variety in their defenses. The only stupid decision gf made when designing them was making them BOTH weak to grass and water. If it was just one or the other for each it would be fine. And splitting the possible "earth" mons into two different camps is superior to keeping them unified. If anything they should have split a few more types. Water, maybe.
>>58187306So Rock keeps Grass and Ground takes Water... I like it.
>>58187306water already is split, it's called ice. Same with grass and bug. Psyhic, ghost, and fairy are all varients of a potential magic type. Normal is split into flying, fighting and dark, and could be broken off into sound if they wanted. As the card game shows these could have all be consolidated into a more general typing.I think it would be an interesting experiment if there was a game that did this kind of consolidation, and instead shifted the complexity into the moves/abilities. Ice beam would be water type but have unique properties and interactions other water moves didn't, same with scald. Fighting types would be normal types but have abilities to remove the regular resistances normal has. That sort of thing. Make it less about "X beats Y type" and force the player to rely more heavily upon in-depth knowledge of individual moves and pokemon. Of course this is purely theoretical since it would mean creating a product for an audience with more mental capacity than a 5 year old.
>>58186582child me who played the games religiously even before I could read had no idea what was special or physical until gen 4 when they reworked it to be move specific and not type specific and added the icons to the move descriptions
>>58187346Same
>>58187139>you can't freeze a ghost because it can just float through the ice
>Water type>Ice typeWhen are they going to add mist type?
>>58187139types are as literal as they are symbolic
>>58186515Ground types are like Normal types, but thicker or can picture them like Water types, being submerged in Sand.Rock types are like magic living rocks or have a shell. Steel types are metallic or robotic.GF should fix the matchups to clarify the distinction. >Ground should resist poison, and fighting. Ice water and grass weaknesses can work too.>Rockshould be a ceramic type that resists Fire/electric/ice, neutral to water.>Steelshould be weak against Fire/Electr/Ice, resist Psychic, Ghost, Dark, Fairy.
>>58187139Ghost types are not spirits. This is literally explained in the first games. They are curtain-like fluid-like creatures, as a contrast to Rock types let's say. After the first 3 gens, GF gradually ruined their type themes. But what do we see in the first gens ? A gas mon that turns into an overly furry mon. A floating mass of hair. A cloth doll, and a wrap of bandages. Even in later gens you have an owl with thick foliage, like a curtain.Same with their attacks, they started as cloth like attacks, like Lick.You cannot punch or tackle cloth, and its harder to smack them with psychic if they are weightless, but you can burn them, or smack them down with heavy rocks, or tear them with beaks.
>>58187106>>58186978IMO Onix stats are fine (could use more hp), but steelix stats BEGS to be reworked. Cut that Def -20 and add to sp def.SPeed can stay, but give Onix dragon dance.
>>58187332Play cassete beasts you will love it
>>58186476Normal and flying would be op
>>58187487>Ghost types are not spirits. This is literally explained in the first games. They are curtain-like fluid-like creaturesHoly fucking retard
>>58186978>55/75/160/30/55/90 (bst: 465)Onix would still be total shit except now it'd be too strong for Little Cup. If you really like Onix at least there's one place where you can use it, now it's just shit in every format in every metagame.The only way to make Rock/Ground work in the modern gens is as a fast attacker but of course that doesn't fit Onix at all.
>>58186568I don't know what the obsession is with overnerfing and overbuffing things is. Rock doesn't need some massive overhaul. Garganacl is great and all it has over other Rock types is a single new Resistance and a good signature move. Ghost resist alone would be enough to make defensive Rock useful again instead of just being Bad Steel.
>>58188183but hes right, retard
>type chart thread>full of autists trying to use real world logicEvery time
>>58186521>nerf grass, goys, it's WAY too overpowered!Fish hands typed this post
>>58187487was it schizophrenia?
>>58188214I like to play NFE so onix would be fine there
>>58187487>You cannot punch or tackle cloth, and its harder to smack them with psychic if they are weightless, but you can burn them, or smack them down with heavy rocks, or tear them with beaks.or cut themor scratch themwere I to guess you can probably explode, hyper beam, tri attack, horn attack, razor wind and egg bomb them too.
Think about it.
>>58186502>>ground can't hit flying for some reasonBecause things stuck to the ground can't touch things that fly.Go ahead and explain how an earthquake hits a bird in the air.>>rock is super effective against flying for some reasonBecause you can throw a rock at a flying bird in the air to make it fall to the ground.>>ground is weak to iceIce freezes and cracks the ground in the winter.>>rock is super effective against iceLook up the mohs hardness scale.RETARD
>>58186476Barely any trainers use ground types it's easy to forget they exist. Meanwhile Rock is a common earlygame boss and cave fodder trash type and steel is a lategame shillmon type
>>58190187Ice is a mineral too
>>58187467Why should steel be weak to electric? If anything, it should be immune or resistant.Why ice?
Various types of poisonous chemicals corrode metals so the immunity makes little sense. A lot of metals conduct electricity so they should be weak to electric just like water. Electricity short circuits in water so electric and water being super effective against each other would make sense.
>>58190893conductive metals provide an easy path for electricity to pass through and reach ground, it should be immunethe metal itself would be unaffected
>>58190922steel being immune to electric would be hilariousempoleon for ubers baybee
>>58191026>NU shitmon gets an immunity suddenly makes it ubers materialNot even in the generation it came out in would this have made it overpowered.
>>58190922by that logic, since water itself isn't harmed by electricity, water should also be immune.But the reason water is weak to electricity is because it more easily hits their vitals. It's the same for steel types' vitals whether they be more like organs or like computer chips
>>58189990sharp attacks were mostly associated with the Flying type. The others you mentioned are *special* attacks that probably shouldn't have been NORMAL typed.
>>58190738Are you serious ?It's about thermal insulation. Imagine A steel mon as wearing an iron jacket. Standing under the sun would burn you. Same with cold. Oh! and stay away from live wires.If the mon is robotic, then you can imagine that their joints expand or contract with temperature, and their motors might malfunction after a thundershock.
>>58187139>punch ghost>doesn't work>kick ghost>doesn't work>bite ghost>it works
>>58190922>>58191681A steel type move called Nailing should be created to cause that effect, similar to Magnetic Levitation.
>>58191718Dark type was a mistake.Half the Dark types should be made Normal types with a Feral ability (resist Psychic, Poison, weak to Fighting)and the rest made Goblin/Elf/Fairy type that can touch ghosts and is immune to Psychic.
>>58190893rock beats scissors so steel should be weak to rock
>>58187487>curtain-like fluid-like creatureswat
>>58191844tl;dr just picture a stereotypical ghost that is a floating bed-sheet. That is a Ghost typed mon
>>58186476Bascially this >>58186567And Earth is also one of the elemental forces in ACG, not sure why they felt the need to separat rock and ground in thr first place without clear definition.
>>58190893Poisonous chemicals are stored in metallic containers.
>>58190712>Ice is a mineral toolol retard
Ice and Rock should be combined.
>>58193330also sometimes glass , also sometimes ceramic... see poisons vary. Even air can be poisonous if injected in the veins.Poison's matchups should change, but its attacks mostly relate to poisons secreted by animals not industrial acidic substances that can melt gold. However, there could one Poison type attack that is SEffective against Steel, other on Rock, other that is like Scald. Another set of poison type moves may inflict burn, the other confusion, or sleep, or paralysis.
>>58194061>However, there could one Poison type attack that is SEffective against Steel, other on Rock, other that is like ScaldMega Victreebel hopefully has it as a move instead of an ability
>>58186521when I drop a boulder on a flower it fucking dies
>>58194369meant for>>58186525
>>58188220Gargancl (and Glimmora) are outliers due to insane abilities, salt cure signature move, great gen 9 stats and actual recovery a rarity among rock types. I think giving out those busted moves to other struggling pokemon would help, I still think Acclerock could have saved the rock type.
