Why do people talk about supposed flaws in the games like they don't just apply to 5 mons out of a hundred new ones?
Because GAME FREAK along with J*e M*rr*ck and friends have been running a slander campaign against Johto.
>>58217017I like all the pokemon in this picture. That's all.
>>58217017They do though
>>58217017Nearly everyone agreed that these were problems for years (even those who liked the games) then people got so tired of them being brought up that they had to cope and pretend that these were actually genius design decisions because they can't bear to admit any fault in their favorite game.
>>58217017There's more to this for gen 2. For example: Natu, Delibird, Marill, Yanma, Slugma, and Hitmontop are all terrible Pokemon not worth the time and effort to bring up to speed when better and more accessible options exist. At least some of them like Houndour, Larvitar, and Heracross are somewhat worth it for eventually being good in GSC.
>>58217017Johto dex is awful in its distribution and type variety. Of the five dark type lines: houndoom, murkrow, tyranitar, sneasel and umbreon... only umbreon is technically accessible in johtoThe new dark type... is practically exclusively post game in it's debutThe new steel type is just barely better.Skarmory is not in gold at all and only after gym 8 with zero trainer rep in the entire game. It's distribution is so poor, most players mistake it for being a Gen 3 Pokemon.Steelix and Scizor are trade evos blocked until Kanto unless you knew to use thief on Magnemites.Forretress is not steel until evolution and hidden behind headbutting trees exclusively.Magnemite is the only feasible steel type to get in a playthrough, and it's a rehash from Kanto with the new type.The only 2 new fighting types are Heracross, which is behind Headbutt trees, and Hitmontop, only available after the 8th gym with a convoluted evolution methodFire types are also pretty bad. The 2 new lines, Houndour and Slumga, are both postgame exclusive. The Fire stone which can be used to evolved Growlithe/Vulpix/Eevee is locked to the postgame. Ponyta is only available after the 8th gym.
>>58217651>Johto dex is awful in its distributionIncorrect How many times do I have to post this before you will stop flagrantly lying?
>>58217017There are way more than those in BW, those are just the most outrageous ones.Why are you stuck with Tynamo until lvl 39? The thing has 4 moves for Christ’s sake.
>>58217672and in hgss the postgame list is like a third of the size
>>58217672Post what, your dumb image that can't even decide what games its picking from? You can't get both Mareep and Sneasel in Crystal for example, and Sneasel is postgame in GS.
I don't understand people who complain that a Pokémon isn't available until later. That's how it works. If there's a first, there's invariably a last. Ponyta is obtained 85% of the way into a Gen I game, is that bad design because it means you can't use your absolute favorite until you're at Blaine? No, something was going to end up at the end. Ruining the game's design and making all Pokémon freely obtainable from the beginning takes literally all the fun away from searching for and encountering new monsters throughout your whole playthrough.And no, Gen II doesn't stop at Lance. The rest of the game doesn't just stop existing because it's not called Johto or because a set of credits came before it.>>58217672Remoraid and Octillery don't need a Super Rod. Fisher Wilson will call for an outbreak on Route 44 where you can catch them with an Old Rod or Good Rod.
>>58217677Tynamo shows up at the same time you get the lucky egg, and it legitimately steamrolls the next gym even in its base stage. It’s a non-issue because by the time it starts to “fall off” it evolves anyway, and you can evolve it immediately again if you want as it’s a stone evo.
>>58217716I have all 3 games and Stadium, so actually I can trade. And so can you. Stop inventing problems for games you don't like purely out of spite (because most people prefer them over whatever nugen game is your favourite).
>>58217717>Ponyta is obtained 85% of the way into a Gen I game, is that bad design because it means you can't use your absolute favorite until you're at Blaine? NoPonyta has stats on par with a second stage starter, is found at a high level for the campaign, and evolves reasonably enough that you will still get mileage out of its base form without babying it. The Gen 2 mons in OP are useless shitters you encounter at low levels while your main team is level 40s-50s aka exp share fodder against a glorified boss rush, and the Gen 5 mons have lower stats than Ponyta in a much more high-powered dex, and evolve basically right at the final boss. Don’t even try to compare Ponyta’s good game design against these messes.
>>58217717>is that bad design because it means you can't use your absolute favorite until you're at Blaine?Yes. This is why open world is the future
>>58217724No, now you look like a retard or you wouldn't have added that Stadium 2 cope tier and would have just put "trade with gs lol".
>>58217722>it’s good if you spend zero time with it as Eelektrik
>>58217672Sneasel is only available in the main game if you are playing Crystal. In Gold and Silver, Sneasel is a post-game Pokemon.
>>58217738Or use a link cable, either way you're just making up excuses for the Gen you don't like. Every game in the series has version exclusives, so if you want to seethe about Mareep in Crystal, we need to have a talk about Medicham in Emerald and Mismagius in Platinum, or even Pikachu in BW.
>>58217739That’s the case for every stone evo. You can choose to evolve it early and miss out on moves, or spend time with a “weaker” pokemon in the hope that it gets something better. It’s good design, like single use TMs were, because the player actually needs to use their brain to make a decision.
>>58217746>we need to have a talk about Medicham in Emerald and Mismagius in PlatinumDecades late to that
>>58217746No retard, we need to talk about your cope list mixing 3 different games and a spinoff to make the dex look good.
>>58217764You can scream 'le cope' all you want, but even without Stadium 2 or trades, the list of obtainable Pokemon is large. And beyond that, if you can't find a way to obtain the trade mons and other starters during your main palythrough, that's a (you) problem. To claim otherwise is itself a cope.
>>58217731It's Pokémon, nearly anything can solo the game because it's baby's first JRPG. If something is a challenge, it's because you're in a Battle Facility or you have a major level disadvantage. Or you're gimping yourself by switching back and forth in a fool's attempt to believe you're giving yourself an advantage. >Oh I need to get this STAB Flamethrower and I either need a high roll 0.95+ RNG or a crit to do 60% damage against Erika's Vileplume which is just enough that she won't use a Hyper Potion to heal, and then I won't be defeated in one hit and I'll be able to defeat her with another Flamethrower. But then I have to switch out and I'm taking a risk with my max Attack/Speed Heracross and Megahorn which has 85% accuracy because it has no defenses which means if I miss, her Jumpluff with OHKO me with its STAB Flying move, and my whole strategy will be ruinedOr you could use your level 80 Feraligatr and Crunch for the 900th time this playthrough and win because that's the best way to play with the least amount of effort since Pokémon's battle system requires you to handicap yourself or play under some stricter rule set to be challenging. It has to be that way because it's for kids, it's not an actual challenging JRPG.The one thing Pokémon does in an interesting way, its monster collecting, gets completely ignored by players because they want to be like Ash from the anime and have their team of 6 bros complete with shouldermon and not have to worry about anything else.
>>58217759It's good game design if there actually is something to consider, why would you not evolve Eelektrik immediately in BW?. At the very best you'll keep Eelektrik to 44, and that is only if you're a retard who didn't pick up Thunderbolt in the gen that introduced reusable TMs.
>>58217672Misdreavus in GSC gotta be the most ridiculous postgame mon.>yeah, you just need to go through 16 gyms and reach the final area of the game to obtain one.>No, no trainers in the whole game use Misdreavus, you have to figure it out yourself>It only appears during Night so if you enter Mt. Silver during Morning or Day then hope someone warns you about it
Why did they remove the based Jiang-shi panda for Misdreavus? Is Masuda retarded?
>>58217803Misdreavus is one of the cutest gen 2 mons
>>58217799>what is a video game
>>58217803they didn't want Gen 2 to have more than one new Ghost type because they would take attention away from GENGAR from KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>58217672HGSS edition
>>58217905fuck houndour line is Postgame mb
>>58217017What's wrong with the Unovamons?
>>58217182This, very nice selection OP
>>58217919Some criticize them for evolving very late in the game
>>58217930Oh. Well aren't they captured near their evolution level? Rufflet is available at 40 for example. I guess Deino and Larvesta, but those are kind of special cases
>>58217940I feel like it's more of a problem in later games. Like in SV those unovamons aside from Mienfoo (and Deino?) are catchable pretty early so you can really feel their high level reqs
>>58217677Because they wanted you to 'keep discovering new Pokémon during the post game'
>>58217017Insane how every mon here has a good evolution. It might be a pain to get it, but god would I love a team of these 10.Also, surprising amount of dark types.
>>58217962I wish the newer games would reduce the level requirement
>>58218166People talk a lot about the extremely high level cases but there's also these mons that you could remove 10 levels requirement from each stage and it would greatly benefit from that. Like, what the fuck is this?
bump
>>58217017
>>58217017I think when the EXP formula was changed in Gen V, they really overestimated how much and how fast a player would level up pokemon in battles and against wild Audinos and tried to correct for it by making Pokemon evolve much later.
