>everyone complains about how shit it is>"Can't be that bad" so I play it on emulator>It's actual babbified garbage>same fucking slow animations from DP>exp share post gen 8 has made the game a fucking joke. >easily found myself overleveled as early as Gardena>every gen 4 feature has gotten worse, even the poketchI think I hate this entire game series now.
Play Luminescent Platinum.
>>58228089This is why when it came out I played Following Platinum instead. It was a far better use of my time.
>adult returns to simple children's series game he hadn't played since his childhood only to discover it was a simple children's gameOkay? It wasn't that much harder in Gen 4 kid. More grindy and of course you needed to be able to think in 3D rather than 2D or you'd get filtered like the very young children in Japan got cockblocked by the map. But other than that, it wasn't "difficult", "esoteric" or "hard". It was the first generation of kids raised by home gaming trends, rather than by brick 'n' mortar arcade gaming trends though and Pokémon's unique status of being a highly detailed, yet incredibly child-focused RPG made by men and women who grew up in the 80's playing proper hard and esoteric RPG games on the hardware offerings of the era meant that their development style eventually reached a point where it became coun ter-intuitive to continue, as kids of the era were not entering the game with the gamesense those of past eras has accrued.
>>58228111blah blah blah
>>58228111You do not need to think in 3D for any of these games.
The only really bad thing about BDSP is the Pokemon friendship buffs, when you get high enough friendship you can survive on 1 hp, get rid of status conditions, dodge attacks, do crits.. it's too good and ruins the entire experience.
>>58228120Tell that to the thousands of Japanese kids who couldn't navigate Mt. Coronet, leading Game Freak to both re-program the path to the top in Platinum AND lead the player by the nose to the summit on top AND cancel a planned Mythical item giveaway, as they already knew kids struggled getting to the top once.Meanwhile, I worked out exactly where I needed to go when I found out about Rock Climb being one the HM's of the region. Funny old world, the 20-something kid-at-heart could think in 3D and knew what to do, a swathe of Japanese schoolkids couldn't and the world suffered as a result.
>>58228089Good, now that you know how bad bdsp is, download luminescent platinum and emulate it.
>>58228128This is true, I actually enjoyed them for what they were up until the point where I started doing the gym leader rematch battles and either had to suck it up for less of a challenge or train a completely new team for every battle to remove that buff.The Battle Tower is one of the best in the series due to the teams being constructed instead of randomly generated, the underground was a weird sidegrade that works better for only needing to play one game to catch a ton of Pokemon, the contests were also a weird sidegrade (never got to play them online, no one else ever did it seemed) and player to player battles were fast. It was a really good idea to give ILCA Champions to work on, because they clearly understand what makes a good Pokemon battle at the very least.
>>58228138It's just a maze mate. Sure there are dead ends but you don't need to have any spatial awareness of where you currently are on a given floor compared to where that would line up with the floor above or below you to get through, which is what I assume you mean by 3D space.
>>58228147>>58228138When Game Freak fundamentally change how they market their game series mid-Gen in response to negative player ability, then it's not "just a maze". Congrats on being old enough to comprehend Mt. Coronet (or rather, read the guide to get you there) but a fuckload of children couldn't understand that and got filtered to the point Game Freak changed the next entry in.
>>58228159I’m not saying Japanese kids didn’t struggle with Mt. Coronet. I’m saying lack of 3D spatial awareness has nothing to do with it.
>>58228089My biggest complaints are single use tms, clunky movements in the overworld and it has less pokemon than ORAS.
>>58228089>everyone complains about how shit it is>use my eyes to see it's uglydidn't need to play it to know it's shit
>>58228111Did you even read what you're replying to before you vomited this nonsense all over the text box?
>>58228128What's wrong with friendship buffs?
>>58228111>>58228138boomerfag tries not to eat feces straight from gamefreak's asshole challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
>>58228272/vp/ is wrong about genwun and gentoo being amazing so OP is not wrong to at least try the games before agreeing with retards on here
>>58228089and the sad part is it's still a harder game than the originals kek
>>58228205>clunky movements in the overworldYour character can walk in any direction but during cutscenes, NPCs walk with 90 degree turns. Shits infuriating. And the constant bumping into corners of buildings and doors slowly annoys you as well.
>>58228138Do we have any official record of this or your source is "trust me bro"?Not that I mean this isn't plausible, I just wanted to know if there is an article saying that children got stuck frequently
>>58228089purisu onasutando, gaijin it's beri difficuruto to puroguramu, we need another birrion dorrars to addo features
>>58228856It's a very common urban myth you'll see come up around /vp/ that's sparked by the knowledge that the Azure Flute was scrapped because GameFreak was worried that it was "too confusing to figure out", despite the fact all you have to do is be Post-League, have the National Dex and climb back up to Spear Pillar again.Speculation ensued that the real reason is that they didn't want to force kids to trek Mt. Coronet another time because they allegedly got hard filtered by its design, and the myth goes that it got to a point where multiple Japanese parents unironically sent letters to Nintendo and GameFreak complaining that the game they bought is making their child upset, which is why all the new regions after Sinnoh became far more linear and handholdy, at least until SV turned into open world slop since they wanted that BotW money.
>>58229133it's just a dumb mythhg/ss are less linear than sinnohthe azure flute was cut because they were pissed kids were hacking them in or glitching to the locationand there's already more obtuse mechanics in gen4 like the honey trees, battle hall fans, hg/ss safari zone etc they expected kids to deal with
>>58228845It’s not>b-but muh shitty AI bosses now run held items and-Doesn’t matter when the forced friendship buffs give you level and crit RNG advantage, as well as the ability to totally negate any damage or status. I swept the endgame with a fucking Clefairy, man. This game is a joke.
>>58228845>Sunkern toughed it out so you wouldn't feel sad!lol
>>58229158Now I'm sadder. Thanks, Sunkern.
>>58229133What a silly mythI got through Mt. Coronet just fine as a kid, and I was fucking stupid back then
>>58228111>More grindy and of course you needed to be able to think in 3D rather than 2DWhy do you just lie and think no one will call you out on it?
>>58229671>gen 4 has no all-team EXP share thus the game becomes more grindy>if there was no difference in the ability to think in 2D vs the ability to think in 3D, no kid would have gotten lost in 2006But fact of the matter is KO'ing one poké in Gen 4 gives 1 poké EXP, doing it in Gen 8 gives the whole team it and Gamne Freak not only fundamentally changed how they developed the rehash to make it even MORE braindead easy to any self-respecting adult, because they needed to lead kids though it, they cancelled a planned marketing execise centred around Mt. Coronet as they knew kids would struggle. THEN they went and changed how they designed the next region in line, so it was a striaght line so no retards could get lost. All there in the history kid, your gaslighting attempt was cute though. Sorry you're a spanner, but you did just ignore a shitload of context.
>>58229671There's no point in trying to "own" boomerfag, he'll just spout endless walls of incomprehensible schizobabble at you every time you bite his bait.
>>58229133>>58229147>mtythConfirmed by Masuda in 2010, when Iwata interviewed some of the devteam for his "Iwata Asks" series when BW got released.
>>58229736>>58229739When I have receipts of the devs themselves outright saying "kids couldn't complete our game that time, so we made them easier", it's kinda hard to actually insist you're right. I'll take "Word of God" over "Word of Gobshite" every day of the week. Problem is facts don't give a fuck about your fee-fees shithead.
>>58229739not what it says boomerfagbesides you return to mt coronet if you want to catch dialga and palkia on top of the story requirement
>>58229739Cool, so where's the part that confirms it was Mt. Coronet specifically? All I'm seeing is that Masuda is making a general statement about children struggling to complete "the games", implying Pokemon in general rather than any one specific choke point that multiple kids were consistently confounded by.The more likely reason Masuda wanted to simplify the region layout with player accessibility in mind is because of the Wii boom that happened very shortly after DP released, which unleashed a wave of turbocasuals young and old who'd never played a videogame before in their entire lives, especially because they knew anyone who bought or couldn't buy a Wii would probably be interested in a DS so they can game on the go, and Pokemon is very obviously one of Nintendo's handheld titans.
>>58229751>if you want to catch dialga and palkia on top of the story requirementWhich most kids don't do, because they finish the game, then drop it as there's nothing of value to do in them after, save battle with friends (or did you think they removed the RNG halls for fun?).
>>58229771>most kids aren't going to go capture the Pokemon that was on the box of the game they begged mommy and daddy to buy for them>especially when it's a big stwong dwagon that can help them with shitstomping the Elite Four and at least a few of Cynthia's PokemonOh this is fucking rich.
>>58229765Back in the day, /vp/ wasn't as retarded as today, thus knew what he was talking about, but since Masuda does realise the majority of the fanbase are simple, he outright told the westerners why in 2013.>http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/35513>ctrl+F "azure"As I already said, it's kinda hard to "Gotcha" me when I have receipts of all this shit and facts don't give a fuck about your fee-fees bitchpants.
>>58229780>giratina exists>origin forme is stronger>monkey retard thinks kids would willingly return to a highly complex dungeon, just because she was an autistic bitch who had to catch them alllololole
>>58228806he just fucking explained it holy shit you're so dumb
>>58229792And taking this in conjunction with this >>58229739 reveals Masuda didn't put it in because kids couldn't even finish the storyline of DP in cases, meaning there was NO fucking hope they finding their way back to Arceus (hence all the toys-r-us event handout Arceus' that got distributed).
>>58229792That was an obfuscation to mask the fact he really wanted to say "We didn't want to bother because everyone just hacked in the Azure Flute or used glitches to reach the Hall of Origin through unintended means."But he couldn't say that, because that's giving official acknowledgement to cheating devices and glitches, which Pokemon is staunchly against, hence why they never canonized ol' MissingNo. or any other famous anomalies, but they DID give a nod and a wink to the "Mew under the truck" rumors by hiding a Lava Cookie under it in FRLG because that never involved any glitches or cheating, just some clever use of trading to turn the SS Anne into an optional area rather than mandatory.
>>58228806He explained it, I like them but only if they're optional. They're handy for post game on your legendary catcher.
>>58229801>GiratinaYou mean the Pokemon who, in DP, you can't catch until you get the National Pokedex? And at that point, as was said earlier, the kiddins just stop playing entirely, so they'd literally never see Giratina in the first place?
>>58229801>>origin forme is strongeronly available in the postgame through another dungeon. play the games dipshit>>58229807nah, they wouldn't have added palkia and dialga to the top of spear pillar if that were the case, retard. gf was obviously autistic about arceus' to the point they censored its footstep in an obscure online game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74zvbbtRSkA&t=5s. they didn't give a shit if kids could traverse mt coronet or not
>>58229809Oh no, hacknigs were part of the problem. But the greater one was the fact kids got lost in Coronet. And that's clear as day because Unova turned out to be a curved, straight-shot route progression, Kalos turned into a big circle the player travels clockwise around, Alola 4 small islands the player travels clockwise around and Galar turned out to be another straight-shot south-to-north progression effort, with "side" roads leading to dead ends so progression was ALWAYS clearly marked. You don't fundamentally change how you design game maps because of hacknigs lad. Especially when it's already a series aimned at 7 year old children, unless there's a critical knowledge failure on behalf of kids (and 00's kids were reared different to 90's kids, as evidenced by them getting filtered by late 80's-era game design).>>58229819Need to finish the game to unlock D&P though lad, same as O-Giratina. Turnback cave is also FAR easier and simple to navigate, including returning you to the entrance chamber if you turn back and leave the door you entered the room from. You can cry all you like, but fact remains Game Freak changed the mid-to-late Gen marketing of the series and their mythicals as a result of issues with kids being unable to pass Mt. Coronet to get Dialga/Palkia in Diamond and Pearl.
>>58229154>Doesn’t matter when the forced friendship buffs give you level and crit RNG advantageand the sad part is it's still a harder game than the originals kek
>>58229814>diamond and pearlYou mean the games Japanese kids couldn't finish? Couldn't navigate Mt. Coronet to reach them, so Game Freak went and blatantly drew attention to the path in Platinum at story climax? The core problem was Diamond and Pearl and kids being unable to find the path to the peak. Whereas in Platinum, they handhold kids through, right up to Giratina then at post game they get to go through an easy dungeon to get its boosting item, without having to worry about the nasty difficult map in the centre of the region again.
>>58229847>>58229858it's funny we have QA testers bitching about running into zigzaggoon and geodude over and over from the teraleak, but nothing about kids not being able to finish a game. you're full of shit
>>58229847>>58229858Azure Flute and Mt. Coronet have nothing to do with the change of region design. Again, they more likely changed it because they were now thinking of the Wii turbocasuals who were swept into Nintendo's consumer base, a factor they didn't have to consider when DP was being developed, because no one foresaw how ludicrously fucking successful the waggle machine would be after the lukewarm results of Gamecube.Again, PLEASE point to where they DIRECTLY AND CONCRETELY state that the reason Unova onward had simplified region design, and the reason they didn't bother releasing the Azure Flute was because "kids got stuck in Mt. Coronet." That's all I'm asking. Direct statement that cites Mt. Coronet as the key culprit. Not headcanons interpreting vague statements, not stringing together loosely related threads in hopes of seeming legit, I want HARD EVIDENCE.Someone, ANYONE from GameFreak, TPC, Nintendo, the works, ANYONE saying clear as day "It's Mt. Coronet's fault."
>>58228138I'm under the belief they didn't release Azure Flute not because "kids are retarded" but because it's an unfinished, shit ass event with no material that makes the God of Pokemon look really unimpressive
>>58229806>>58229813I did see his post and he didn't explain WHY it's wrong. I'm asking why is it a bad thing? What's wrong with having your Pokémon survive on 1HP, get rid of their own status conditions, etc.?
>>58229870Because it gives you an unfair advantage that no NPC has access to, and good RNG can potentially let you cheese every single encounter, even if you should have no reason to survive and win those interactions.Now if NPCs could benefit from affection buffs too, it'd be a different story, but no, you're canonically the only trainer in the entire region whose Pokemon loves so much that they'll pull superman feats just to make you proud of them.
>>58229867Hacking in the Azure Flute was the coolest shit ever. What are you on about?
>>58229870Makes the game too fucking easy (don't forget the bonus exp). Again, I like them existing, they're a cute mechanic when optional and they're useful in post game since dodges and status healing are nice for catching legendaries but even Gamefreak agreed main game forcing was dumb so even SV made it so all standard friendship mechanics are live fast and you have to limit break with sandwichs to get the cheese.
>>58229862>>58229739If you're not going to read the pic, here's the link to the interview page.>https://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/ds/pokemon-black-white/0/1/But ignoring the truth doesn't change reality. Just makes you look a little bitch, mad she lost an argument online.
>>58229888So no direct, definitive, unmistakable proof that Mt. Coronet was the culprit, just interpreting vague statements in a way that align with your personal headcanons? Thanks babe, knew I could count on you to back me up.
>>58229867he's a fucking retard>forced to reach spear pillar in the story>platinum adds palkia and dialga as catches at spear pillar if you return later>hg/ss are even less railroaded despite coming out after>all the other obtuse shit in gen4 like berry growth cycles, honeytrees, battle hall fans, hgss safari zone, etc>bdsp just straight up has the azure flute >n-noo trust me bro, they removed this event item because millions of kids wouldn't be able to find their way to an area you're already incentivized to visit multiple timeshe'd probably believe the sky is purple if masuda said it
>>58229866Anon, the "wii turbocasuals" weren't Game Freak's market and they knew that. Kids were and even the success of the DS DIDN'T translate to suddenly finding a massive jump in sales, they only hit 17.65m for DP a measly 1.4-ish million more than RS. It was entirely down to retard kids not knowing where to go, no fucker changes how they market shit, unless it's going to be an issue for the target market (eg, the Flash series died as the actor playing him got accused of all sorts of shit and the public lashed out against him so no-one wanted to go near the toxic waste it became).
>>58229897Also, let's not forget Regigigas in ORAS. That shit is still the undisputed king of weirdly specific and cryptic bullshit that isn't tied to a Mythical Pokemon ala Keldeo in SWSH or Meloetta in SV.
>>58229895As long as you ignore the interviewS and Masuda's words, along with the last 15 years of game releases, yeah. Or are you just too stupid to connect the dots yourself? Do you need to look up how to take a shit in the manual every time you sit on the toilet?
>>58229897>>58229908You guys are really not that good at putting yourselves in the kids’ shoes. It’s not about obscure shit not existing in althe game. It’s about going to an event, downloading the Azure Flute as a gift for showing up, and then having no idea how to actually use it in game.
>>58229908>"Hey kids, buy our guide that tells you EVERYTHING you need to know to catch every pokémon in the game!"It's almost as if the series that drives interaction with people intended you to interact with people in some fashion to find out....
>>58229909>Or are you just too stupid to [INVENT PURE HEADCANON]?Like another anon said earlier, if Mt. Coronet was genuinely the culprit for Unova onward being casualized, and the Azure Flute being scrapped, it would've been documented in the Teraleak.But guess what? In over a terabyte of information, not one string of Ctrl+F alluded to "kids struggling to get through Mt. Coronet" as a key reason for turning Unova linear.You're purely relying on your own interpretation of those vague statements and treating them as gospel because it's the most convenient picture for your narrative.If Mt. Coronet were STILL such a damning, criminal, cruel force that GameFreak regrets to this day, then why didn't they make it easier to traverse in BDSP, faithfulness be damned? Wouldn't the mobile kiddies have an even worse time trying to get through Coronet compared to the retards of yesteryear?
>>58229923Huh, fancy that then! You'd think they would've just kept making regions MORE bastardly to traverse to encourage the purchase of more strategy guides if Mt. Coronet was THAT good at confounding kids, not make the games easier so you DON'T need to buy a strategy guide.
>>58229875Not hacking. The event itself is whack. It has very mediocre presentation and is just a stairway that pops up. Compare to Darkrai and Shaymin. Darkrai has you go on a thematic adventure sleeping in an inn and then being woken up at the middle of the night to go to New Moon Island. Oak shows up to visit Marley and this interaction activates the Flowery Path. Compared to those Arceus event has ZERO sauce. Even Unova Mythicals got events tied to them even if they aren't involved with catching them
>>58229935I think it works for what it attempts to do. I’m glad no NPC accompanies you up there because it would ruin the “ being granted audience with god” vibe it is going for.
>>58229926>If Mt. Coronet were STILL such a damning, criminal, cruel force that GameFreak regrets to this day, then why didn't they make it easier to traverse in BDSP,I mean, they kinda did with the HM rework destroying the need for a HM Slave and having the right moves to progress. Not all simplification is direct.
>>58229935>>58229943I've always wondered if the Distortion World was a repurposing of whatever grand ideas they had for the Arceus Event, this trek into a completely alien dimension to meet a being who prefers to exist far and away from your world but oversees it all the same.
>>58229897>fallacyI tend not to listen to non-experts over experts in a chosen discipline, and science has already explained the sky's colouring being down to the scattering of sunlight and blue light being the shortest wavelength (sky can still show purple though, that's the beauty of the atmosphere scattering sunlight, almost all the colours of the rainbow). But given Masuda IS an expert on the Pokémon game series (as well as being the long-term lead Director at that stage), his credentials for talking about the games are beyond reproach (unlike drumpfenstien telling people to inject bleach to fight covid).
>>58229862>it's funny we have QA testers bitching about running into zigzaggoon and geodude over and over from the teraleak,i wanna read the QA feedback kek where is it
>>58229874The NPCs are allowed to spam protect/detect without the loss of accuracy so it's only fair lmao.>>58229876That's subjective because everyone complains about everything making the games too easy. I've never noticed a difference in difficulty with and without the friendship/affection buffs because all the games are still a neutral difficulty for me. Personally I prefer them and want them to stay as a permanent feature that's always on.
>>58229954Remember that time he said "humans can't use Pokemon Moves" but then greenlit a movie where a human uses a Pokemon Move?
>>58229933Except this was grandfathered in, a relic of an older era and thus in dire need of telling late 00's/early 10's kids what the fuck to do, because shit, even Anon got confused here >>58229908.Unova and Kalos already existed and already changed region design to ensure no pudding was left behind.
>>58229951No, it was always intended to be Giratina's zone, given the movies had it chilling there minding its own business before shit kicked off.
>>58229959Nah I don't, got the teraleak location handy, I'll dig it up?You DO have the direct conversation where he himself greenlit the movie and was involved in the writing of the plot details, I assume?
>>58229964I never said the Distortion World was Arceus' world, I meant the general concept of "an alien dimension where the logic you're used to doesn't apply."It feels like the kind of grandiose and weird that could convey a God's Domain while adhering to the limitations of a grid-based game on the DS, far more appropriate than the Azure Flute's end result of "durr... make stairs to climb even higher than the peak of the region's tallest mountain!"
>>58229972Moving up a celestial stairway going even higher than the highest peak to meet the grand architect feels very much in line with the myths Sinnoh borrow the most from though.
>>58229990Maybe if you spent an incredibly long time walking up them, like the extreme length of the pathway to Shaymin's garden. But it's really just an extra five seconds of running up stairs, and then suddenly you just see this llama stuck in a fence and that's the start and end of it.
>>58229997The problem with that is that if the stairway was longer you wouldn’t get the imagery of Hall of Origin being directly above Spear Pillar and a reference for how high you are. I understand if that scenery isn’t as important to you though.
>>58230011>Literally translated the cry from KanaWow there was like zero effort put into this
>>58229849I fear for your intelligence if you somehow found the remake harder. Only reasonable explanation would be sustaining brain damage at some point.
>>58230020As opposed to just making some shit up?
>>58230031Making shit up is what the localizers did up to BW. Usually if the Pokemon's cry is just arbitrary grunts and growls it would at least sound natural in our languageWhat the fuck does a>Dodogyuuunsound like?
>>58230041Kana is phonetic so you know exactly what it is supposed to sound like.
>>58230020>>58230041DP had a SomethingAwful Goon on the translationteam IIRC so i think it has some of their in-jokes snuck in that i think was purged by Pt. Or im misremembering it.
>>58230049Yeah, Nob. He was a freelancer NoA hired to handle Pokemon's localization, and he started getting more leeway in localization influence in gen 3 onward, which is how you have shit like the kid in DP who calls you a noob because you don't have any badges.
>>58230111Nob was simply ahead of his time.
>>58229958>The NPCs are allowed to spam protect/detect without the loss of accuracy so it's only fair lmao.no they aren't
>>58229955https://arch.b4k.dev/vp/thread/56638895/#56639509https://pastebin.com/WH9ZjhFz>*The following text is basically based on what I felt while debugging Ruby/Sapphire (hereafter RS) and FireRed/LeafGreen (hereafter FR/LG). I haven't played Emerald, so I haven't taken it into consideration.>■In RS, no matter how far I went, I would encounter Zubat Golbat in caves, Zigzagoon Swinub in plains, and Swinub or Swinub Pelipper or Poison Jelly in water, and I remember feeling that it was very monotonous. I would like to see more variety in the types of Pokemon encountered, to make the regional characteristics more clear. By doing so, I think it would create a sense of travel, like "I've come a long way."you can probably find more on somewhere like the tcrf
>>58230767>■I would like the details, such as effort values, individual values, and natures, which are currently only known to core users who gather information on the internet, to be made more accessible to children. There are occasional texts that seem to be hints, but I think they are difficult to understand. Although it seems that they are basically reluctant to release such information, I personally think that it would be better to make it public if there is a possibility that the information gap between users will widen and the "children" who should be the main demographic will be excluded, considering the impact on holding tournaments, etc.lmfao
