What is the point of these games? It is literally the exact same as Pokémon sign but we just added features. Why couldn’t they just make it a DLC instead of a standalone game?
ULTRA CHANGES
Money.
>>58262155>some slight gameplay improvements>story is considerably worse to the point where it isn't even divisive in the fanbase, everyone agrees it's inferior>but uh it's ULTRAidk money I guess
pokemon fans just consoom
i still remember when i thought this was going to be a sequel the way bw2 were
>>58262155the music was cooler ig, they realized people didn’t like how long the intro is in SM before you’re allowed to play the game (but the plot is weird and not as good)strange games really, just make a 2 like wtf was this worse alt retelling but with better features
Anybody who genuinely thinks that USUM isn't VASTLY SUPERIOR to SM, is either stupid or just a contrarian.USUM added:>Battle Agency>Mantine Surfing>Ultra Warp Ride minigame>Alola Photo Club>Rainbow Rocket postgame>New locations>Expanded old locations>New Pokemon>New Z-Moves>New Human Characters>New story twistsUSUM literally has more improvement over SM, than Emerald/Platinum had over RS and DP respectively. But for some reason people here suck off Emerald and Platinum 24/7 but for some reason USUM is considered mediocre or unnecessary. The hypocrisy.
>>58264443people like SM for the story which is what USUM royally fucked up, it's not hard to understand, it's literally the entire reason opinions are mixed. it could have all the features in the world and it still wouldn't be compelling with the climax of its story cut out and replaced with something else.
>>58264443People always say the gameplay experience is better in USUM. What are you talking about?>>Rainbow Rocket postgameYes, I also enjoyed fighting Arbok and Raticate 40 times.>>New story twistsAnd they were shit.>Lillie stealing Nebby is pointless because she literally just asks her mom to stop and she does>Nebby is reduced to a power-up for Necrozma and then discarded to be optionally captured later; this is despite the fact that you need to ride a Lunala/Solgaleo into Ultra Space anyway>Lusamine is now a flawed mom who had good intentions and just magically solves years of abuse over the span of an afternoon despite still having cryogenically frozen Pokémon all over the place>The Ultra Recon Squad do literally nothing aside from go "Dude, Necrozma." and challenge you to a piss easy battle five times
>>58262164My favorite part is where they revamp a single fucking island so they can gaslight you in the trailers.
>>58264589>People always say the gameplay experience is better in USUM. What are you talking about?nta but usum has more mons in the encounter tables and i like having more optionssome of the fights bumped up in difficulty too which is also neatthere's also a handful of one-off "sidequests" you can do by talking to random NPCs in towns and stuff that are pretty neat little details that i'm pretty sure weren't in base SM
>>58264712I understand that, Anon. I was saying that people generally agree with that sentiment in regard to an advantage USUM has over the originals.
>>58264589>Arbok and Raticate 40 times.
>>58262155Good question.
>>58264823Yes, but how many of these do you fight before that?https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Team_Rainbow_Rocket_Grunt_(Trainer_class)#Trainer_list
>>58264443New story twists is very generous wording for making the story actively worse.I agree with some of your list but none of this really makes it better than any previous upgrades. Photo Club is very limited in the amount of things you can really do with it, Rainbow Rocket is finite, Ultra Warp Ride and Mantine Surfing are just bolted on minigames in the same way that pretty much almost all minigames in this series are.And you completely invalidated your list with the inclusion of Battle Agency, which can't even be completed anymore because you pretty much needed online play to do so (and even when online play was around, good luck finding people that gave you rentals of Pokemon that were level 70 or higher).Also>New locationsPikachu Park or whatever that shit was called was garbage and most of the other locations were just more fleshed out Ultra Wormhole areas. The only was notable was the Ultra Ruins due to its backstory.
>>58264865The Battle Agency can be played anytime. Whether or not it can be completed (without online play) depends on your luck I guess.
wait what happened to the story? I'm just finishing Alpha Sapphire rn, gonna play ultra sun next
>>58262155Rom hacks of this game can't come soon enough. I hope modders will be able to find a way to remove entirely the cutscenes and the early game tutorial, then maybe it will become enjoyable. As of right now it is an unplayable slog.
>>58265063>wait what happened to the storyNothing important, but veepee are freaking out as usual.
>>58262164>ULTRA CHANGESMeme aside, USUM certainly has MORE gameplay changes and added content than Crystal, Emerald and Platinum COMBINED.
>>58265098
>>58265063the whole game builds to a climactic scene where lillie confronts her psychotic mother about her abuse in ultra space, it's basically the entire reason gen 7's plot exists. anyways USUM takes a left turn before this scene ever happens so instead of closure for the plot you've been following for like 30 hours you get a big setpiece boss battle against necrozma and lusamine never really has to atone for hor poorly she treated her children and how badly she fucked alola, it's incredibly hollow and weird.but hey, at least there's more funny interactions between hau and gladion in ultra. that's cute.
>>58265098and it also ruins more compared to the original than any of those (unless you defend the idea that gen 3's plot works better with a single villain team which I can see an argument for)
>>58265080>way to remove entirely
>>58262155>What is the point of these games? It is literally the exact same as Pokémon sign but we just added features. Why couldn’t they just make it a DLC instead of a standalone game?
>>58264736im completely blind with negative reading comprehension because i misread>the gameplay experience is better in USUMas>the gameplay experience is better than USUMand assumed you meant the SM gameplay experience
>>58262155They're the definition of a sidegrade. Imo if you value story > gameplay the OGs are better but if you prefer gameplay > story then USUM are better
>>58265911USUM ruins nothing about SM. Unless you're a storyfag who happens to subjectively prefer the SM version of events, but that's completely retarded to begin with, because gameplay+content >>> story.Whoever happens to disagree with this should go watch a movie instead of playing a videogame.
>>58265994>They're the definition of an upgradeFtfy
>>58266182>this core part of the RPG experience that matters to other people doesn't matter to me so it doesn't matter at alland you have the gall to talk about subjectivity, that's fucking rich. go play CoD or something
>58265098>58266182
>>58266291Cope harder, storyfag.
>>58266360>makes a thread seething his third version with ULTRA CHANGES isn't widely beloved like the base version because it ruins the story>yet the storyfag is the one copinglol, lmao even
>>58264443Having new features is nice, but Sun and Moon were kind of shitty as games to begin with, and there was nothing that USUM could do to fix that. It was still going to be a game that leads you by the hand the whole way through.
>>58266182for my personal taste, Good story, mid gameplay >>>>>>> Viceversa
>>58265098it didn't really add more content than emerald or platinum, the gimmick facilities in those games are better endgame content and have more replayabilitiy. those games, even with the 8 hms and ~200 sized regional dexes, also have more replayable campaignsponi Island is tiny, the wormholes amount to a few corridors, the rainbow rocket plot can be done in like an hour max, and the title defense fights are mostly very easy and require way too much tedious grinding to see. almost everything to do with festival plaza is dead content too
>>58266371I didn't make this thread. Cope harder.
>>58266391Emerald and Platinum added the same battle facility with slightly different gimmicks and called it a day lol (except for the Battle Pyramid in Emerald, which is admittedly unique, even if tedious).USUM adds a Battle Facility (the Battle Agency), new side content (Mantine Surfing, Ultra Warp Ride, Alola Photo Club), brand new Pokemon, brand new Z moves, more new areas, etc.The hypocrisy is amazing. Or maybe it's nostalgia.
>>58262155They ruined the story but I can't go back to vanilla SM. Between the OST updates, the team updates across most NPCs in-game and the rebalanced Totems it's hard to not prefer Ultra.It's a shame that they felt compelled to release SM in 2016 as opposed to 2017. Most of what was in Ultra was intended for the base games ironically. Hell there was even supposed to be a post-game quest where you'd establish Gyms after becoming the Champion.It really sucks how dirty the 3DS games got done and things arguably never improved. Peak Potentialmon.
>>58267723If SM released in 2017, we simply wouldn't have had USUM. I doubt they would release a 2017 SM and then build on top of it. USUM is fantastic as it is.
>>58267870>I doubt they would release a 2017 SM and then build on top of it.Anon, my point was that had they given themselves the extra year of dev time to implement the features in USUM which, again, were already intended for the base game as per the design documents, we wouldn't have needed a USUM to begin with.
>>58265063The original plot of Sun and Moon centred around Lillie slowly getting out from under the thumb of her abusive and mentally disturbed mother, Lusamine. This plotline reaches its climax when the player and Lillie travel to the dimension Lusamine and her lackey Guzma escaped to during a previous encounter, only to find her at the height of her madness, driven utterly psychotic via fusing herself with the parasitic extradimensional Pokemon, Nihilego. You defeat Lusamine, sever her from Nihilego’s influence, and in a moment of clarity, she’s able to somewhat reconcile with Lillie before collapsing into a coma, her body utterly ravaged from the Ultra Beast’s neurotoxins. She remains completely comatose for the rest of the game and post-game, and after you become Champion, Lillie makes the decision to undergo her own journey, now having fully come into her own as a person, and leaves overseas to KANTOOOOOOO in a pretty bittersweet scene, closing the main plot.Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon maintain basically the exact same plot up until the point where you’d go into Ultra Space to fight Lusamine, with one major exception, being the appearance of the Ultra Recon Squad. Occasionally as you go through the narrative, they appear and you battle them, constantly doomsaying about the gen’s third legendary, Necrozma, alongside being an extra pair of goons for Lusamine. Then, when you reach the climax, rather than fight a maddened Lusamine, Necrozma barges his way into the scene, dumps Lusamine, possesses the box legendary, and fucks off back into the portal. Lusamine, very much not insane for no explained reason, then exposits that all her abusive and psychotic behaviour (including killing pokemon and freezing their corpses, creating bioweapons, and torturing the infant box legendary to near death to forcefully activate its portal powers) was ACTUALLY completely justified because she was trying to prevent Necrozma from eating the sun, which is total bullshit.
>>58267985Then you beat up Necrozma, the remainder of the plot continues as normal (save for the fight with Professor Kukui as the Champion being replaced with the game’s rival, Hau). Afterwards, Lillie fails to self-actualise and chooses to remain in Alola, with her brother leaving to Kanto instead, and Lusamine receives absolutely no form of consequences for her actions whatsoever, arguably getting rewarded more than anything given she’s able to meet her missing husband Mohn (who’s disappearance into an Ultra Wormhole was the reason she went off the deep end to begin with) again during a brief post-game event.Put simply, while Ultra Sun/Moon is objectively the better game mechanically speaking (larger dex, significantly more challenging boss fights, ect), it mutilates the plot in doing so, casting the main villain (Lusamine) aside completely to prop up Necrozma as the main threat, which in turn leaves the story’s deutragonist, Lillie, with an unfinished character arc and allows the villain to escape the consequences of their actions scott-free.
>>58266182>anti-storyfags want to play a JRPG campaignalways a mystery how these people come to be
>>58267985>Lillie makes the decision to undergo her own journey, now having fully come into her own as a person, and leaves overseas to KANTOOOOOOO in a pretty bittersweet scene, closing the main plot.Which is what Shilliefags were whining about, so they made her stay in USUM.>allows the villain to escape the consequences of their actions scott-free.Every bad guy in Pokemon ever. Besides, what punishment did Lusamom get for what she did in SM? Nothing, she peaces out to Kanto and is never seen or heard from again.
>>58268126>Every bad guy in Pokemon ever.Main series, that is.
>>58267985You're mostly right, but even the scene where you first confront Lusamine is changed.>Lusamine in the original talks about how she has no children and only cares about the UBs>USUM Lusamine is bitching at her children, but still talking about how she wants to save them because she still loves them>Lillie tells her not to overtax Nebby and Lusamine stops>Lusamine battles the player to prove to her kids that she can handle herself against Necrozma>Lusamine and Guzma then leave without any real sinister intentions
>>58264443None of those things were fun or added value
>>58268209They are very fun and added a lot of value. You just have horrible taste.
>DLC expansion>For a 3DS gameU fockin wot, m8
>>58268209neither did the addition to emerald or plat>but the BFso the whole game is dogshit except for the postgame? amazing>>58268270monster hunter stories 1 did it. only in japan. pieces of shit. the new version of the game that came out 2 years ago has the new monsters but i don't know if it has that other content.
>>58262164
>>58268266>>58268396If you're like 12 maybe. I also never mentioned Emerald or Platinum
>>58265098SM also have less content than previous Gens which made it easy to switch it around for USUM lmao
>>58268483That's objectively and quantifiably wrong.SM were good and content packed games to begin with, and USUM just added more on top of it.Base SM had stuff like:>Battle Tree>Battle Royal>Pokemon Refresh>Festival Plaza>Poke Pelago >PokeFinder>Champion Defense>Battle Buffet>Etc.USUM kept all of that, and then added:>Battle Agency>Mantine Surfing>Ultra Warp Ride>Alola Photo Club>Kantonian Gym>More new locations>More expanded old locations>New characters>New moves>New Pokemon>New Move Tutors>Etc.That's A LOT of content, regardless of whether it is content that YOU personally like or not.
>>58262155It took 7 (SEVEN) generations for the Pokémon fandom to realize that third versions were a scam
>>58264550SM story is pretty much ass though and you can still see that they always intended to redeem Lusamine
>>58268004Lusamine was always meant to be redeemable. SMfags always seem to forget that Lusamine was supposed to be high as a kite because of Nihilego Neurotoxins and the reason why Lillie left for Kanto in the first place was to see if Bill, with all of his expertise in fucking up with Pokemon, could find a way to fully cure her mother
>>58268270Fire Emblem Fates, which lifted the "one game for the price of two" format from Pokemon, did this. But then again IntSys and GF are completely different companies
>>58262155I would assume money + filling the wait time between the release of other main games. GameFreak had the philosophy of "1 game per year" back then. Pokemon were not that familiar with DLCs in those years too.>>58264443If you want an honest discussion:>EmeraldI personally only consider Emerald superior to RS due to better font and Battle Frontier but even then the difference is not that big to me. There are more double battles and the storyline is slightly changed in Emerald too but whatever.>PlatinumThis one improves a lot over its predecessors. It noticeably speeds up battles and extends regional Pokedex, making campaign a vastly more enjoyable experience. Aside from that, you have some graphical improvements and tons of stuff added to postgame (storyline with Heatran, gym leader rematches and Battle Frontier to name a few).>UltraI enjoy the addition of Mantine Surfing, move tutors, Ultra Warp Ride and bigger number of legendaries available but that's about it. Battle Agency and Rainbow Rocket postgame are ill-conceived - the former requiring tons of grinding and friends while the latter is just boringly made. Alola Photo Club, everything else you mentioned as well as gigaton of side quests you forgot to mention add very little value to overall experience.I consider Ultra a worse game than their predecessors for a very simple reason - the main strength of Sun and Moon is their interesting story and region. Ultra messed that up HARD, ruining the whole plot about Nebby, Lusamine, Guzma, Lillie and Gladion while shoehorning Ultra Recon Squad and Necrozma who do very little themselves.I felt extreme satisfaction from the ending of Sun and Moon - the whole festival at the end, battle with Tapu Koko and the touching segment with photos. You know what I felt during Ultra's credits which were clearly based on GSC? Disappointment.
>>58262155It was a humiliation ritual for all Pokemon fans who were still holding out hope for the series. It was basically telling you to get off of the train once and for all because the series would soon complete its transformation to a hollowed-out vehicle to sell merch. ULTRA CHANGES(tm), did you rike it?
>>58268004Jesus Christ, you reminded me how I DESPISE Hau's change. He felt like his own character in SM, a laidback rival. Then they made him into a tryhard in Ultra which would be tolerable but him being the final battle infuriates me. Sun and Moon had a brilliant idea of making the player the first champion right after beating regional professor who personally helped with building Pokemon League. I LOVED that. And they took that away to make some Gary copycat moment.>objectively the better game mechanically speaking (larger dex, significantly more challenging boss fights, ect)Harder =/= BetterNecrozma battle is just poorly designed for example.>>58268126>>allows the villain to escape the consequences of their actions scott-free.>Every bad guy in Pokemon everMate...Giovanni - literally on the run after losing everything.Cyrus - stuck in another dimension.Ghetsis - on the run in BW and literally mindbroken in BW2.Lysandre - quite possibly dead.>Besides, what punishment did Lusamom get for what she did in SM?Serious decline in health to the point of being bedridden. Not a legal one but whatever, it's something.
>>58264443>Battle Agency>Mantine Surfing>Ultra Warp Ride minigame>Alola Photo ClubNo one knows what any of this shit is>Rainbow Rocket postgameCool idea but it’s just non-canon fanfic stuff that disguises the lack of an actual postgame, doesn’t make it worth $40>New locationsA FUCKING HALLWAY>Expanded old locationsI actually don’t even remember these so they can’t have been anything important >New Pokemon2 (two) BRAND NEW Necrozma forms and a Lycanroc recolor???? HOLY SHIT TAKE MY MONEY!!>New Z-Moveswow a move to finally unscuff Kommo-o that took 10 minutes of devtime>New Human Charactersah yes the Ultra Irrelevance Squad, can’t imagine the Alola experience without them>New story twistsDespite all odds they somehow managed to make SM’s story even worse. I still don’t know how they did it.
>>58268270Animal Crossing did it, dingus.
>>58269026Calling fire emblem fates one game for the price of two is like calling platinum and heart gold one game for the price of two
>forced to play mantine shitfin>not forced to do a contest that's why usum is worse
>>58270032>>Battle Agency>>Mantine Surfing>>Ultra Warp Ride minigame>>Alola Photo Club>No one knows what any of this shit isPlay the friggin game, you contrarian idiot.
>>58271160I did, pirated it day 1. No one cares about any of the “””content””” listed because they’re all shallow, tacked on and add nothing to the game. Tell me have you ever seen anyone go>Man, I wish the Battle Agency would come back in a future game Of fucking course not, come on nigga
>>58271199These features are awesome, and not shallow at all. You should just get your nostalgia goggles off, because you clearly think Emerald or Platinum's added features were better lol
>>58271230the battle agency is literally a shitted version of the factory your cockblocked on progress for because you need other people and the servers are down. fucking retardpretty sure you're the same faggot that makes the retarded "LGPE were actually kino guys!" threads too. shit bait
>>58271230What USUM addition gives the same sense of variety, longevity and challenge as the frontier? There’s a reason people still have a fondness for it, and it’s not nostalgia.
>>58271242>the battle agencyGit gud, retard
>>58271253The Frontier is massively overrated because of nostalgia. Especially the Gen 4 Frontier, which is already a downgrade from the Emerald Frontier.
>>58271290go open your boring laggy dogshit festival plaza and show me your completed agency, faggot
>>58271302Cope harder lol
>full of unskippable cutscenes that drag on killing the pacing>removed bike and individual trainer themes>removed hall of fame records>removed the pss for a laggy retarded version of join avenue>rotom dex constantly blabbering stuff and blocking the bottom screen>battle agency: somehow messed up something as simple as the battle factory by requiring later sets to be done online, effectively making the entire facility a waste of space now that online for the 3DS is down >the map and region itself SUCKS-no town map key item-map is on the bottom screen, rotom dex covers up the map when he's talking. sometimes his dialogue stays on screen permanently until you answer him. If you answer him he talks even more.-map is spread out across five different pages on the bottom screen which you have to scroll through.-exploring the cities suck too; many are small and empty with most buildings lacking an interior to enter-whole game feels like you’re an a leash guided to the next objective, red flag on the map saying where to go at all times; actual side areas to explore are few and far between-every route and town looks exactly the same, except for the asian looking town, which was followed by another asian looking town.>forced to play several mini games throughout your journey. cannot leave the first island without playing a surfing minigame. the controls are awful and the minigame takes five minutes. just want to play pokemon.>cannot just catch the legendaries. must play another minigame with awful controls. must flow through space time hoping to get sucked into the correct warp hole with the legendary. >music is forgettable. i can’t remember a single environmental bgm, and only guzma and necrozma for fights>>58271310exactly faggot. go take photos or whatever lame shit they added in these boring fucking games
>>58270016>Lysandre - quite possibly dead.He's back in Z-A.
>>58271314COoOoOoOoOope harder, faggot
>>58268946And the thing that you're forgetting is that Lusamine only got high on Nihilego neurotoxin after she was already in Ultra Space. Prior to that point, she was never around it aside from a brief moment where it battles you and never comes into contact with her. Everything she did was of her own volition.
>>58270010>ULTRA CHANGES(tm), did you rike it?more changes than the other third versions, lmao
>>58271687Bingo
SOONSTARS into ULTRA CHANGES into KANTOOOOO was simultaneously the worst and funniest era /vp/ has ever been through, what a fucking shitshow that all was
>>58264443>>Mantine Surfing>>Ultra Warp Ride minigameIt's crazy that one game added both these Pokemon riding mini games at once cause mantine surfing is fun and cathartic with consistent results once you figure it out while the Ultra Warp is a huge pain the the ass that gives you inconsistent results even if you're good at it.
I really hate that this version of the story robs Nebbie of the climactic first time it evolved into its final form.Could the have have had Necrozma steal Nebbie's power in another scene?
>makes Necrozma I to a full fledged threat>NOW Zygarde is nowhere to be seen Why
