Why do so many singles players hate certain pokemon for reasons that boil down to "it can have multiple sets, I can't predict that"?Part of a strategy game is being able to get into your opponent's head, if you can't do that, you're not good at any game.These faggots would hate poker
stallfags cant handle exceptions to their flowcharts
>>58280608I think it's just a classic case of mad cus bad. I used to play competitive in gen 5 and 6 (a liiiiiittle in gen 7 but I was leaving the franchise at the time) but it's so much fun when you're not sure exactly what's optimal yet.
>>58280608fanfic players are terrible at the game, that's why they have to play fanfic in the first place
>>58280608Because in hyper offensive metagames, like generation 9, guessing the wrong set can and will instantly lose you the game. This is the kind of shit that got DPP Salamence banned. You tried to soak up the draco? It use dragon dance and you lost. You predicted physical? You just lost a vital pokemon to draco and you lost. The concept is the same with terastilization. You are forced to make a game deciding read that could cost you the game regardless of how early into the battle it is.
>>58280608post a single replay of yours or a team you've made
>>58280871schizo
>>58280608post elo
>>58280608I got bamboozled by a whirlwind iron moth once, was a bit pissed in the moment but saluted my opponent for thatIt's probably cause of how important every turn is and smoggies can't stand and play around getting the kyurem/valliant set wrong and seethe/ragequit when forced to play from behind or bamboozled by some random cheese or creativity
>>58280862FPBP. Singles fags only care about their precious stallmon teams being viable so they will ban everything in their path to keep it that way.
>>58280992>This is the kind of shit that got DPP Salamence banned.The difference is that was a single mon in a game that wasn't largely built like that. Like you said, that is the nature of powercrept pokemon in general.This is part of the actual reason, smogon is chasing after a ghost trying to make a format something it can't be anymore.The other chunk is the they're bad thing unironically to an extent. A lot of them are not very good players but ones that have learnt a flowhchart via mass autism.It sounds like a shit statement but thats just how it is. A lot of the figure heads(like the obvious one though he's a pretty extreme example) sorta embody this.Flowcharting works "good enough" so why go further. The idea that you consistently get the ability to be better in games like this just by playing isn't true when you play stale enough.Good enough to beat other bad players, good enough to have an ego.
>>58281138have sex tho?
in Gen 3 OU (their most prized metagame) ttar has literally dozens of sets, even now Iron Valiant and dragapult have a stupid amount of sets they can run
>>58280992I new they banned Dynamax, but did they seriously ban Tera too?
>>58281811*knew. Blegh
>>58280608When the power level is such that 1 turn of wrong predictions can cost you the game, of course people will hate it. In past games, there were way more counterplay options to offensive threats. They either had minimal set variety and high potency (Gyarados, Volcarona, Dragonite) or high set variety and medium potency (Mew, Celebi, Hydreigon). Now we have sweepers that are both unpredictable AND potent, and that leads to you being able to lose due to no fault of your own.tl;dr: Fuck Iron Valiant, ban that bitch.
>>58281811Unfortunately not. They don't even have tera display on battle start. It's 100% up to chance.
>>58281795Buddy this is /vp/
>>58281800TTar also has plenty of counters and checks. Skarmory, Swampert, Suicune, Aerodactyl, etc. There's no +50% SpD boost, its Dark attacks are coming off of its unboosted SpA, and it can still be outsped by some fast revenge killers even if it DDances.Tyranitar has huge set variety, but its potency is lacking due to its terrible typing. Good stats, great movepool, terrible typing, meta defining ability.
>>58281519It doesn't matter if there are 20 Pokemon with overpowering variety, they all have to go. That's why there are so many bans in Gen 9 OU. If the Pokemon doesn't have consistent counterplay, it places undue stress on team building and thus gets banned.
>>58281850This is why I like how Pokemon battling works in story-driven media more than the games desu. Virtually no one has access to legendaries or paradoxes or other broken nonsense, and the characters aren't out there constantly optimizing their teams for the meta, they just use what they like and find strategies that work for those Pokemon. Nothing needs to be banned because nothing ends up so oppressively dominant, and the mark of a skilled trainer is how well they can adapt to the unforeseen and claw out unorthodox advantages from seemingly poor odds, not just which Pokemon they use and if they predicted the right set
>>58280608>Fanfic meta
>>58281495Just want to point out stall barely exists in Nat Dex and they even kept Waterpon.
>>58281894Regulation H is the meta for you bud.It kind of sucks.
>>58282155
>>58281837Knowing what the tera type is wouldn't help anything. It might clue you into what set a Pokemon is, but he can still tera any of his 6 Pokemon throughout the battle or not click it at all. If you see a tera ghost Gambit, it might just stay as steel/dark as you click knock off instead of a fighting move.
>>58281850>That's why there are so many bans in Gen 9 OU.Relative to other gens, not really. Most things banned this gen would have been banned in the past.
I don't care what faggots like OP say.Tera is a complete and utter dogshit mechanic. It makes competitive pokemon a guessing game with no realistic deduction due process.Tera can turn any match into Reverse Uno game at any turn.It gives pokemon endless possible resistances and coverages, and is utterly busted with set up moves and win conditions.SHIT FREAK is aware of this dumbfuck flaw, that's why VGC has open sheet teams, which is completely anti-competitive and the spirit of team building.
>>58282732It would help at some extent at least. If Gambit is shown to be Tera Flying, you know that it has the potential to avoid an EQ until Tera is used. If it's shown to be Tera Fire, you know that it can dodge WoW but can't avoid getting EQ'd, and would affect your play since you know Tusk would be more reliable into it.
>>58282944It shows you what it CAN do, but you still don't know when or if it will change type. This is why nu-gimmicks are so busted. Anything on your opponent's side can completely negate your turn at any time, and they give up nothing to do so.
>>58282710Joey was acting like a complete nigger when someone showed him the Teraleak stats for the ZA Megas a week back, because Mega Excadrill wasn't literally just Mega Heracross but with a different type and because Mega Pyroar wasn't exactly like Mega Charizard Y. Then he threw a tantrum and went to twitter to suck Centro's cock to beg him to push for fake docs he made of what he wanted the Mega stats to be like. His chin is pretty impressive, but it doesn't change the fact he's a gigantic autistic manchild as well.
>>58283005>Source:>My semen-filled bumbum
>>58283116https://youtu.be/AnwIo9V6UE8The manchild spends half the fucking stream seething like an impotent faggot at the leaked stats, the link here roughly starts a bit before he goes full ape over Mega Excadrill.If you're assuming I'm defending the absolute shit stain that is Verlisify, no, I am not, but Joey isn't much better.
>>58283005im glad i dont know these cunts by name. verglizzyfy is the sole exception, because he is that damn prolific and annoying about it
>>58282710Funny how pokeaim has more vgc cred and placements than the furry ever will
>>58283546Pokeaim would do better(monetarily) if his channel featured more vgc content.His most viewed content is related to his vgc run or collaborating with Wolfe on draft league stuff.The guy is good and probably a fine personality. Why not make more money?
>>58282710kek I remember when whatever that fag's name is on the left had his youtube channel "hacked" because his password was something really stupid, fishsticks or something like that. How many years ago was that?
>>58283614I feel like his mannerisms would make him more popular if he did more VGC content as well. People like the quirky shit.
>>58283847Joon the King has a fairly decent documentary on that loser. Furries are the most persistently pernicious aspect of any fanbase.
>>58280608VGC players also hate unpredictable sets. No likes fighting Armarouge in VGC because no one can tell if it’s gonna be Trick Room or Weak Armor until your opponent shows it, then you die when you guess wrong.And that’s the underlining issue with some Pokemon. You guessed your opponent was using Trick Room but they were actually using Weak Armor and now suddenly you lose turn 1.There is a reason why Armarouge teams went out of style after open teamsheet. It’s a strategy that is entirely reliant on luck and not the actual skill of the players.
>>58283967That's why vgc is best of 3 and open team sheet.
>>58283847He's unfortunately still around and still bitching incessantly about Smogon and Wolfe.
>>58284232Why Wolfe?
>>58282922VGC in Japan, Game Freak's home territory and the only place they bother looking at tournament results, is closed team sheet. But also open team sheet is better anyways as it rewards smart play over "ha I surprised you."
>>58284232Gemini didn't get the memo that Verlisify is a toddy
>>58284250Because Wolfe would regularly take Pokemon from his viewers (that passed the authenticity checks on cartridge) to use at events, and one of his viewers had gifted him a hacked Raichu (it was in a Pokeball that it couldn't legally be in with its moveset). Loads of competitive players do this, and as long as it comes up as legit under Game Freak's system it's all hunky dory, but Verlisify took particular offense to it and has hated Wolfe ever since.
>>58283614He just started a league with wolfe so there you go
>>58280608why does this board continually seethe about smogon
>>58284471Smogon banned their favorite strategies (Evasion spam, OHKO move praying, and Baton Pass chains) 10,000 years ago and are still mad that they have to use actual skill to play Smogon singles.
>>58284471Because dickriding GameFreak is totally cool as long as we get to shit on the fan-created alternatives to their retarded official garbage
>>58284471It's literally just Verlisify fans (or Verlisify himself). You can tell because when Verlisify started shitting on the phys/spec split in Gen 4 /vp/ had an influx of threads shitting on it for a couple of years. Verlisify says Ice type isn't the worst type and "Smoggies" are just bad and lo and behold there are tons of posts on /vp/ about how Ice doesn't need a buff and it's actually a better type than... uh...
>>58284471There are plenty of things wrong with Smogon.But instead of complaining about Smogon’s inconsistent policies (Freeze Clause existing in older gens despite not wanting to change mechanics. On top of that, Freeze Clause not being a full on removal of Freeze as a mechanic despite the fact that they claim it’s effectively an OHKO like Horn Drill which they ban. Among other contradictions that make 0 sense)or moderation of their user form being run by clownsor how Finch, the main guy for their main metagame, decides to suspect things based on what beats him, like how King’s Rock was only banned once he lost an important game to KR Cloyster when KR should have been banned from the start anywaysOr how the average Smogontuber have the personalities of a robot and never have any opinions that deviate from what’s banned or not. Often defending shit like paralysis or iron head jirachi because those aren’t le banned (which is also another thing against Smogon itself)All the above are valid criticisms of Smogon. But unfortunately /vp/ won’t criticise Smogon over those things. Instead they whine about shit like evasion being banned or Stealth Rocks being legal.
>>58284681Rock Normal and Bug
>>58284232>average furry has long conversations with aito be expected
>>58284471it's just one, MAYBE few schizo/s lurking the board.
>>58284796Dark > Dragon > Poison > Grass > Bug > Psychic > Normal > Rock > Ice
>>58284998Normal was already one of the worst types in the game before Game Freak took away Return/Frustration. It's dire how bad the type has become.
>>58285090At this point they should bring back g1 hyper beam recharge mechanics (for giga impact too) and make the two moves exclusive to Normal-types.
>>58285099They should make Power Herb ignore the recharge turn.
>>58285099I think it should be on the Hyper Beam clones too since they're so rare. You'll still only very rarely see Charizard running Blast Burn or Dialga running Roar of Time, and Normal types will be able to more adequately abuse Hyper Beam/Giga Impact with the variety in the type. Make it so Slaking ignores its Truant turn too if it gets a KO with Giga Impact
>>58285140Greninja firing off Hydro Vortex for free doesn't sound like much fun.
>>58285148Bro...? Your Blissey...? Your Wet Ogerpon?
>>58284998schizo ranking desu
>>58285254It's based primarily on the defensive virtues of the type while also taking into account how useful their STABs are. Poison is rated so highly because it's a very valuable defensive typing. Bug gets STAB U-turn, which is huge, while also resisting Bug, Grass, and Ground. That puts Bug above the lower 4.
>>58285148I'm more scared of Charizard to be honest with you. 252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Blast Burn vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Sun: 424-501 (65 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
>>58285362campaignshitter
>>58284471I wouldn't care about Smogon if it was something I could ignore in community discussion but people constantly bring it up as a metric of how the game should be balanced and it gets annoying hearing stupid bullshit like "Bug Flying is an ungodly bad typing because muh sneaky rock"
>>58285401Another forced shitpost term that means nothing. Go back to sharty
>>58285410It means that you have the mentality of a child playing through the easy campaign and only care about type matchups rather than what each type actually gets.
>>58285410Don't respond to Verlisify-posters (Yawnfag)
>>58285405Bug/Flying IS a completely dogshit typing. Both STABs are resisted by Steel, and sneaky pebble weaknesses severely limit the Pokemon. The only Bug/Flying type worth using is Yanmega, and only because of Terastallization.
>>58285420But somebody JUST won a tournament with Scyther
>>58285413What ice gets is dogshit>muh heckin snow will save mACKKKKKKK*dies to flamethrower*>muh aurora v-*has paper defense stats and dies anyway*
>>58285423Eviolite privilege + technician dual wingbeat for Annilape.>>58285426It’s better than fucking Bug, Rock, and Normal.
>>58285433>Eviolite privilege + technician dual wingbeat for Annilape.Yeah? And Yanmega is only good due to Tinted Lens. Good Pokemon need good tools.
>>58285442Yanmega isn’t good tho
>>58285448My point still stands.
>>58285401fanficshitters ignore the game itself. worse than even eeveecoomers
>>58285423Doubles is real Pokemon so I don't give a shit. If it's not 6v6 singles, it ain't real. Might as well say Sunkern is GOATed because it's the single best Pokemon for the Pokeathlon.
>>58282732>Knowing what the tera type is wouldn't help anything.It would help a lot, actually.Like, yeah, you know Dragonite will always tera normal, or Serperior or Enamorus will always tera stellar, but for Kingambit like you used in your example? There's a lot of teras that it runs viably.Open tera would have it be like>"Will Kingambit tera ghost, or not tera at all?"which is a lot more manageable than>"Will Kingambit tera ghost, or tera fire, or tera fairy, or tera dark, or tera flying, or not tera at all?"And that's only if you know the meta. If you're a noob, then it's more like>"Will Kingambit tera bug, or tera dark, or tera dragon, or tera electric, or tera fairy, or tera fighting, or tera fire, or tera flying, or tera ghost, or tera grass, or tera ground, or tera ice, or tera normal, or tera poison, or tera psychic, or tera rock, or tera steel, or tera water, or tera stellar, or not tera at all?"Gen 9 is probably the most punishing gen for noobs for this exact reason.
>>58285099Or just bring back Return/Frustration.And as a bonus, have it scale off of the user's higher attacking stat.It's a 102 BP move that's supereffective against nothing and has no secondary effect. It won't break the game.
>>58284998Ice is at least good offensively. Bug is complete ass no matter how you look at it.
>>58280608VGC hates that too in closed team formats. All the VGC stuff has open team info now, so you're not gonna get caught off guard by some crazy move or choice scarf. You already have a cheatsheet on their team so there's no theorizing what set they could be running, you already know. It takes out one portion of skill being adaptable for the unknown for having more control already knowing all the pawns on the battlefield
>>58286000Yeah, honestly, if anything Smogon doesn't go far enough in hating unpredictability.
>>58285099>>58285140>>58285148Honestly gen 1 Hyper Beam would be good but far from outlandish compared to the standards of today.You got to remember that you still have to recharge if you don’t get that KO, which makes the moves extremely risky. That also means you need to also chip your opponents down to KO range. But also make sure you don’t chip it down enough to where you could have just used a different and more reliable move like Overheat.It’d still be good but would eventually go back to being a niche option.
>>58284471I just think it's time to pack it in for trying to make singles a serious format. It has now been 6 generations of GF not focusing on the single battle experience, doubles has expanded rapidly in its strategies, moves, and abilities while singles seldom gets anything other than severely powercrept because it's difficult to deal with powerful mons that need little setup without redirection, fake out, etc.I don't hate Smogon, but I think the discourse surrounding it feels out of touch like the games left them behind.Showdown is still a good practice tool and everyone should use it, especially now since playing regulation H on cart for practice is pointless.
>>58286346>doubles has expanded rapidly in its strategies, moves, and abilities while singles seldom gets anything other than severely powercrept because it's difficult to deal with powerful mons that need little setup without redirection, fake out, etc.are we ignoring that it's the same mons and teams every time? unless they pull a fanfic(but official!) meta by banning specific pokemon. including times where they just ban the most used pokemon too. >but scyther saw use...!after they purged majority of the good mons (like smogon does lol) you're just playing vgc RU at that point vgc meta hasn't expanded at all, it's the same shit and when they allow everything it's incredibly boring.
>>58284250jewish and cheater
>>58284471Because they act as if the games should be designed around their shitty fanfic formatIf they stayed in their own autistic bubble instead of infecting every other part of the fanbase by constantly mentioning tiers and screeching about certain Pokemon being shitmons due to their own retarded self inflicted rules, no one would care about them.
>fanfic!!is this all you morons can say?smogon is a bigger problem considering its, just like discord, pedo central.someone post the fucking imagine already.
>>58286417The only times I see them mentioned here are in type whining threads and when people want to whine about them. I think your idea might be a bit dated
>>58285965it is boring though imo
>>58286346Yeah, GF is clearly doing a good job of balancing doubles.
>>58286668Incineroar is not broken its generic support that fits on most teams, finalist teams have frequently dropped him for more specialized Pokemon
>>58286668I still can't understand why anyone would like this ugly fuck. I genuinely hate it more and more the more I see it. I finished sun for the first time today and when Kukui threw this thing out I literally grimaced because of how ugly it was.
>>58286701I like it because it makes chuddies seethe
>>58286701It's for gay bara furries. A lot of pokemon get designed with furries in mind these days.
>>58286701He's really fun to play in Ultimate, this stupid cat also has this swagger that makes it oddly endearing. I hated this stupid furbait and now I genuinely really like it, damn you Sakurai!
>>58286734>he got suckered in by exposure manipulationsad
>>58286701Nobody likes Incin. It's just so good that they all have to reluctantly respect it and use it.I can't help but wonder if GF made it simultaneously the ugliest and most viable Pokemon of all time for this exact reason, since it's made to be a wrestling heel.
>>58283005can you link the minute where he supposedly "acted like a nigger" and "threw a tantrum"? you might have great trouble at interpreting other people's reactions
>>58285984Bug is better defensively and has STAB U-turn, First Impression, and Leech Life. Water types make Ice types irrelevant since most Water types get Ice type attacks anyways.
>>58282732Knowing tera type gives high level readable information, tourney games could have gone differently its substantial enough imo
>>58285984People vastly underestimate how good Bug is as a defensive typing, few things resist Fighting and Ground and you can't go wrong with a Grass resist either. It does have 2 pretty bad weaknesses in Rock and Fire, but it's so easy to counteract Rock and Fire types in general. Bug also has some of the best type combos in the game in Bug/Steel, Bug/Water and Bug/Fire that complement eachother marvelously.Not to mention Bug as the other anon said, has some of the best moves in the game to have STAB on, as well as one of the best status moves in Sticky Web. By comparison for instance, Psychic types outside of just insanely good Pokemon are an outright detriment to many teams due to how overtuned and out of control Dark and Ghost have become in recent generations and due to Gamefreak's moronic mistake of buffing Knock Off in gen 6, which they still haven't fixed by nerfing that piece of shit of a move to the ground.
>>58286485>>58286889
>>58286888>campaignshitter forgets what STAB is>campaignshitter thinks Ice Beam is the only Ice move in the gamemany such cases
>>58287542how is that a smogon thread
>>58287575>how is this thread screeching about a balance issue that only exists in smogshit a smogshit thread
>>58287663Rage Fist is stronger in doubles because you can target your ally
>>58287774Rage Fist is weaker in doubles because games don’t last 50 fucking turns with constant switching
>>58287777>He doesn’t know about Annihilape + Maushold
>>58287788>He doesn’t know the opponent not being a drooling retard and simply attacking Annihilape while you’re forcing it to go 1v3
>>58287808>He doesn’t know about terastallization, screens, friend guard, intimidate, and parting shot>He doesn’t know both players typically have IQs so it’s disingenuous to imply the person facing the Annihilape has an IQ but not the person using it
>>58287837>He doesn’t know both players typically have IQs Which is probably why no one uses your retarded gimmick strategy
>>58287842https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yA_1PqVld4mhttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/gpN4IbssjI4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc-EOrXts4Mhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcWM_1hBu_c
>>58284681Wtf the fuck is this deranged cope lol "Surely everyone who disagrees with me must be sucking furry youtuber dick!"
>>58287881>low elo ranked and casual matchesYeah I’m sure you think FEAR is a good strategy too. Go back to replaying your toddler campaign.
>>58280608
>>58284471>>58284590correction: because smogon will ban literally everything for the sake of "balance" other than duplicate items (and full teamsheets, but that's a new thing), something that has been banned in literally every official tournament ever, with four exceptions:- Mobile Cup 2001 (This tournament was just fucking weird. Clauses weren't used at all prior to the semi-finals, and you were allowed to change teams between rounds.)- "The First Pokemon Champion Tournament" in 2003 (Zero clauses were in effect, doesn't count)- Pokemon Masters 2005 (This was organized by a fansite, doesn't count)- Pokemon Emerald Ultimate Frontier Brain Battle (BECAUSE ALL ITEMS WERE BANNED OUTRIGHT)>>58284760also their inconsistency on "game cartridge accuracy", they'll add a ton of bugs that were patched in Stadium to the Gen 1 metagame, but don't enforce the legal IV/Nature sets for Legendary/Mythical Pokemon in Gen 3>>58288012FEAR is a material trade at best and gets completely shut down by multi-strike moves, weather, iron barbs/rough skin/rocky helmet, a substitute, priority, entry hazards, or just pressing a status move and not falling for that shit. Anyone actually using a Rattata instead of a Taillow (because Scrappy) is also retarded.The Aron set is better because of Sturdy + Shell Bell, but it requires Sandstorm to already be up and basically can't do anything against mons immune to Sandstorm damage or holding Leftovers
>>58287663>most of that thread is talking about doubles>there’s like one post specifically talking about balance in terms of smogon, and then some others where it looks like they’re immediately having smogon live rent-free in their head
>>58287547Ice provides near perfect coverage for Water types as it is, so not having STAB is irrelevant. The only type that resists both is Water itself. And no, Ice Beam isn't the only Ice move which is why it's awful convenient that the physical Water types get Ice Punch or Ice Fang.
>>58287916Maybe if you didn't parrot Verlisify's talking points people wouldn't accuse you of slobbering on his knob.
>>58288448Most things with fists get punching moves, shitter
>>58288471
>>58288418Freedom Cup. What you're asking for is Freedom Cup.Smogon hosted a format for a while where it was just 6v6 singles, but with VGC/BSS rules.No mythicals or restricted legendaries, no duplicate items, and no duplicate Pokemon. That was it. Just the same rules GF puts into place, but applied to 6v6 singles.It was a fucking disaster, and the format died due to a lack of players after only one tournament.And despite the fact that shit like Flutter Mane, Palafin, Iron Bundle, Annihilape, Chi-Yu, Last Respects, Baton Pass chains, unlimited sleep, and evasion were all allowed, this is what the finals for the Freedom Cup tournament looked like:https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9freedomcup-703584When people bitch about Smogon banning everything, this is what they're unknowingly asking for.
>>58288622>the fissure on turn 40
>>58288622That was an alright game, but Dozo just stole the game by rolling fissure better.
>>58288622>Sleep Talk Fissure on Cinderace the turn it switches in for the first timeMaybe Smogon does know better than Verlisify and Game Freak
>>58288622See, their main flaw, and my main objection, is that they went in clean slate. I, and I'm not the guy you're replying to, just want SVOU, but without everything getting banned day one. No one ever lets the metagame adapt nowadays.
>>58288448>not having STAB is irrelevant252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery252 SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 72-86 (34.7 - 41.5%) -- 72.2% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recoveryYou sure about that lil bro? And this is ignoring the fact that Ninetales has access to 100% accurate Blizzard while Politoed doesn't.
>>58288723That absolutely was not an alright game. That was some cancerous bullshit with both teams' win conditions being fishing for OHKOs with Fissure.
>>58288427>>most of that thread is talking about doublesAnd yet OP made the thread because of fanficshit. Curious.
>>58288739Politoed is a complete shitmon. Try this on for size: 252+ SpA Primarina Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 282-334 (82.6 - 97.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth RockSuddenly, Choice Band Rillaboom (the most common Rillaboom set) cannot switch in on Primarina, a Pokemon it should theoretically counter, if it has taken any chip damage at all that game.
>>58288622>no roge with studyKWAB
>>58288744See: >>58282710
>>58288622>https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9freedomcup-703584>despite the fact that baton pass chains, sleep moves, evasion moves, (and flinch hax) were allowed>there were 0 uses of sleep or evasion moves in the finals match and baton pass was not used to pass down stat stagesway to fucking prove the point that they aren't actually that broken, do you have any replays from said tournament of a baton-chain-based, sleep-spamming, evasion-utilizing, or a team using King's Rock/Razor Fang on a mon winning a match?
>>58288622This legit just looks like normal Smogon faggotry lol
>>58288767That's not normal for Gen 9. On average, Gen 9 games end in around 25 turns, not 125.
>>58288754>D-DOESN'T COUNT252 SpA Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 254-300 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery252+ SpA Primarina Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 190-224 (47 - 55.4%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recoverylil bro why is Iron Bundle able to guarantee 2HKO while Primarina can't if STAB doesn't matter?
>>58288780Yeah that’s not an “average” game that’s two cocksuckers exploring a new metagame
>>58288754>126 Spa vs 81 Spa252+ SpA Primarina Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 190-224 (47 - 55.4%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery252+ SpA Ninetales-Alola Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Rillaboom: 210-248 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recoveryDespite having 45 more special attack, Primarina's ice beam does less damage.
>>58288766The mola was running bright powder.
>>58288781No one uses Assault Vest Rillaboom. It has less than a 1 in 30 usage rate. The vast majority of Rillabooms are eating a OHKO, or nearly a OHKO, from Ice Beam on Primarina. And if you Ice Beam a Rillaboom and it takes only 50%, you just switch out because it's a Grass type with no damage output. Even squishy Bug types (which are better than Ice types btw) can eat that Grassy Glide for breakfast.252+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lokix in Grassy Terrain: 77-91 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 60.1% chance to 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
>>58288780source on that? i really don't think that stall vs stall only lasts 25 turns>>58288740so we agree that stall vs stall is cancer to watchnow post a replay from the freedom cup of an evasion or sleep team winning
>>58288807>A-ASSAULT VEST DOESN'T COUNT252 SpA Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rillaboom: 380-450 (94 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO252+ SpA Primarina Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rillaboom: 282-332 (69.8 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recoverylil bro why is Iron Bundle able to have a > 2/3 chance of OHKOing while Primarina can't OHKO at all with a higher special attack stat and a positive nature if STAB doesn't matter?
>>58288754Why does Prim not have the throat spray boost from psynoising the turn before?
>>58288797Wow, STAB moves deal more damage, who would've thunk it. The point isn't that the Ice types don't hit harder, it's that the difference in power is completely irrelevant in most circumstances since there's always Water types that get more value out of just having the coverage option as opposed to being Ice type itself.
>>58288821Why the hell are you using EV spreads no one uses to try and make a point? Rillaboom is never running 252 HP/4 SpD. It needs to the Speed and it needs the Attack.Only 3.9% of Rillaboom use that EV spread. A statistical anomaly that you'd be able to easily counter due to it lacking offenses. That's why it's never used.
>>58288825>doing more damage is completely irrelevant damn you learn something new everyday from campaignshitters
>>58288799>brightpowderthat powder didn't proc once, could have fooled me
>>58288843>TH-THE EV SPREAD DOESN'T COUNT252 SpA Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 384-452 (112.6 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO252+ SpA Primarina Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 282-334 (82.6 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recoverylil bro why is Iron Bundle always able to OHKO while Primarina can't OHKO at all with a higher special attack stat and a positive nature if STAB doesn't matter?
>>58288850There's a reason no one uses Rampardos despite it hitting like an absolute truck. Pokemon need to do more than just hit hard.
>>58288872rampardos would be a higher tier if trick room had an item that extended its duration desu
>>58288872>Pokemon need to do more than just hit hard.yeah, like set up Aurora Veil, hit multiple opponents reliably, freeze targets, deal SE damage against water types, flinch opponents....
>>58288862Precisely. Throw up some hazards and that Primarina is OHKO'ing Rillaboom without having to carry the DOGSHIT Ice typing. Primarina gets to be a defensive stalwart while still annihilating Rillaboom. No need to eat 25% chip from Stealth Rock. No minuscule set of resistances. No weakness to Fighting, Rock, Steel, or Fire. There's a reason Urshifu-Rapid-Strike has almost double Kyurem-B's usage rate in Ubers despiter having 150 less BST. Charmeleon is closer in stats to Volcarona than Urshifu-R is to Kyurem-B, and yet Urshifu is the preferred choice.
>>58288876Utility that Rampardos has:>Flinches opponents (Rock Slide, Zen Headbutt)>Entry hazards (Stealth Rock)>Phazing (Whirlwind, Dragon Tail)>Burn targets (Fire Punch)>Dealing SE damage to Flying, Bug, Fire, and Ice types>Hitting Levitating Pokemon with Mold Breaker + Earthquake And yet it's never used. Not in Doubles, not in Singles. 165 Attack stat and Sheer Force... never used...Really makes you think.
>>58288908>J-JUST DEALING DAMAGE DOESN’T MATTER YOU NEED TO DO OTHER THINGS TOO>W-WAIT NO THOSE OTHER THINGS DON’T MATTER EITHERMake up your mind, campaignshitter.
If you’re JUST comparing STAB vs non-STAB on Pokemon, obviously the STAB is going to do more damage in most cases, needing a significant increase in base stats to make a difference. However Pokemon is more than just STAB.Primarina is more of a threat when it uses Ice Beam than Ninetales-A because it’s there to cover types that resists is actual main STAB of Water.Primarina can spam water attacks and hit the majority of Pokemon from at least neutral damage. When it’s facing a Ground type or Electric type, it doesn’t need to use Ice Beam as Surf or Moonblast will do more damage anyways.Where Ice Beam comes in is against Grass types and x4 weak Dragon types and Dragon/Poison types. These are the type of Pokemon that would normally switch into Primarina since they resist its actual powerful options, and possibly threaten to KO Primarina.This is in contrast to Ninetales whose Ice Beam/Blizzard and Moonblast are its 2 strongest moves and that’s really it. Yeah its Ice Beam does more than Primarina’s on paper, but in practice Primarina will do more damage because the natural response to an Ice/Fairy type is using a Fire or Steel or Water type.Your opponents (typically) have brains and aren’t going to chuck their Rillaboom against an Ice type. Meanwhile they might through it against a Water type or be forced to in more scenarios.
>>58288908How would it flinch with sheer force doe
>>58288908>58 speed>flinching things>10% proc chance>burning targets
>>58288940>Your opponents (typically) have brainsNot at my rating :smug:
>>58288940>Primarina is more of a threat when it uses Ice Beam than Ninetales-A because it’s there to cover types that resists is actual main STAB of Water…like Rillaboom? Which Iron Bundle can 1HKO while Primarina can’t? Sounds like the Ice type is the bigger threat, lil bro.
>>58288942You can run Mold Breaker too. It's a great way to take care of Orthworm and Weezing, for example.>>58288953>58 speed>flinching thingsTrick Room>10% proc chance>burning targetsThat's as much of a chance of burning something as A-Ninetales has of freezing something. If it counts for one, it should count for the other.
>>58288955Based Yawnfag with his 1082 ELO
>>58288968Yes. Rillaboom, a Grass type, would normally switch in on Water types since it has a positive matchup and can then force its opponent to switch (taking chip damage and dealing nothing in return) or it picks up a KO. Rillaboom is never switching in on Iron Bundle or Alolan Ninetales because it would die if they clicked a STAB move. Meanwhile, it should have a positive matchup against Primarina, but Primarina can nearly OHKO it from a raw Ice Beam
>>5828897258 speed is too fast for trick room these days
>>58288908>flinch>58 base speednever happening outside of trick room>entry hazardsbest utilized on defensive mons>phazingbest used on defensive mons>burn>Fire Punch does damage and has a 10% chance of burning the opponent.>levitate mold breakerok that's Weezing sets that don't use Neutralising Gas, Flygon (which you Avalanche on anyway), Lunatone/Solrock and Claydol (which you use Crunch on anyway), Eelektross, Rotom (other than Fan), and the Bronzong 50/50 (which you use Crunch on anyway)
>>58288622What people don't realize is that when a metagame is unstable, what thrives is not necessarily what exploits the unstable mechanics, but what's most resistant to instability.And that's usually stall.
>>58288781>>58288821>>58288862I feel like you're missing the point here.Iron Bundle does more raw damage with its Ice moves. Nobody is arguing that it doesn't do more damage, but is instead arguing relevance in the grand scheme.Ice Beam isn't the only move that Bundle and Primarina have. Rillaboom is not your opponent's only mon. Your opponent can also attack you.Ice-types having Ice moves is a given.Water-types having Ice moves rounds out their coverage and lets them hit Grass, which should be Water's worst matchup on paper.If you switch Rillaboom into Primarina as a counter, you still risk getting chunked for most of your HP.That's the point. Water-types aren't better at using Ice Beam than Ice-types, but Ice Beam lets Water-types cover their biggest weakness.Whereas Ice-types aren't universally getting a Water-type move to cover their Fire weakness, for example.
>>58288807>no one uses assault vest rillaboom
>>58289159>VGC
>>58288992>Rillaboom is never switching in on Iron Bundle or Alolan NinetalesSo...the Ice types are more of a threat?>>58289096>more damage isn't relevant in the grand schemedamn you learn something new everyday from campaignshitters
>>58289159DELET THIS!!!!
>>58289246Are you only capable of reading one sentence per post?Because I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary anywhere in this thread.
>>58289246>So...the Ice types are more of a threat?No, it's because no one is switching in a Pokemon weak to the opposing Pokemon's STAB unless they're certain the opposing Pokemon isn't using its STAB that turn.By the same logic, Bug is even more threatening because Rillaboom is never switching in on Scizor ever.
>>58289317>By the same logic, Bug is even more threatening because Rillaboom is never switching in on Scizor ever.Don't say that, he might unironically agree with you.
>>58289317>No, it's because no one is switching in a Pokemon weak to the opposing Pokemon's STAB…because the Pokemon with STAB os more of a threat?>By the same logic, Bug is even more threateningNo, because Ice isn’t resisted by almost half the type chart like Bug is.
>>58289427>…because the Pokemon with STAB os more of a threat?Because every Pokemon, with only a handful of exceptions, carries STAB. Primarina isn't guaranteed to have or use Ice Beam. Scizor is guaranteed to use U-turn. You don't know what Iron Valiant is using, but you know it's going to use Fairy and Fighting type attacks at a bare minimum. >No, because Ice isn’t resisted by almost half the type chart like Bug is.It doesn't matter if your Pokemon resists Bug when Bug types are liable to just spam U-turn anyways. You switch in your Iron Valiant on a U-turning Lokix and that Lokix turns into a Gholdengo. You switch your Scizor in on A-Ninetale's Blizzard and your Scizor will be perfectly fine 90% of the time.
>>58289455>Because every Pokemon, with only a handful of exceptions, carries STABAnd Ice happens to be one of the best STABs in the game.>when Bug types are liable to just spam U-turnWhile doing fuck all. Meanwhile Ice STAB kills your Pokemon altogether.
>>58289469>And Ice happens to be one of the best STABs in the game.Wrong because it's attached to Ice, the worst type in the game defensively.>While doing fuck all. Meanwhile Ice STAB kills your Pokemon altogether.252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 79-93 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 128-151 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Reminder, Smogon did nothing wrong.
>fanfic meta
>>58289529lmao
>>58289455>You don't know what Iron Valiant is using, but you know it's going to use Fairy and Fighting type attacks at a bare minimum.To be fair, you actually don't know that. Some physical sets don't run Spirit Break, and some special sets don't run Vacuum Wave, Aura Sphere, or Focus Blast.Valiant's movepool is so preposterously wide that at most, you probably know that it has at least one of its two STABs. Moonblast or Close Combat.
>>58289484>the worst type in the game defensivelyThen why does my Ninetales barely take any damage with Snow and Aurora Veil? Seems like a pretty good defensive type.>252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 79-93 (25.4 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO>252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 128-151 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKOSheer Cold kills Scizor instantly and either of those moves have a chance to freeze it and shut it down completely.
>>58289529Can someone explain the image with an example? I'm too retarded to get this, sorry.
>>58289694https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjP-GA01pII
>>58289760Horrible Bioweapon>Dracovish>Flutter Mane>VolcaronaKnives>Swampert>Landorus-T>Great Tusk
>>58289871Note that Gen 9 Volcarona is actually a Knife, while Gen 5 Landorus-T was a Bioweapon.The rest are spot on
>here's your horrible bioweapon bro
>>58289952Australia btfo
>>58289529>>58289871
>>58289975Perfection.
>>58289975fucking kek, amazing
>>58289932Landorus was a preferrable bioweapon in Gen 5. Latios, Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Reuniclus, Cloyster, and Volcarona were much worse.
>>58289952To be fair, Canada is killing ostriches right now for being horrible bioweapons
>>58290007Canada has fucking ostrich farms?
>>58290012Had, apparently. Canada decided to ban ostriches to ubers.
>>58290012people grow ostrich for meat in some places. it's super lean. i like it a lot but its pretty expensive.
>>58289975>Kingambit is Horrible BioweaponAin't that the fuckin' truth.
>>58289975This is hilarious
>>58290023It's becoming popular as a replacement for turkey meat for Thanksgiving. It went from dozens of people doing it to thousands. Though it won't receive widespread acceptance until you can buy it at a supermarket.
>>58289932I dunno if Gen 9 Volcarona could be considered a knife. It's something you had to dedicate a slot or even two to counter or you'd lose horrifically.
>>58290012there are a lot of animals farmed most people don't know or care about. I live in jawja and there's ostrich, emu, llama, alpaca, goat, and probably some more I'm forgetting farmed all within a couple miles of the city center. In addition to the normal pigs/chicken/cow/turkey/ducks, of course.
>>58290097As if the entire metagame isnt like that these days, for the better i might add.
>>58290170How is every game being a matchup fish for the better?Volcarona never had enough usage that dedicating an entire slot to countering it wouldn't gimp you against everything else.It's not like gen 2 Snorlax, where the whole metagame revolves around it so any Snorlax counter is always worth it.
>>58286370>are we ignoring that it's the same mons and teams every time?How is that a bad thing? Even two people running the same six Pokemon will have dozens of differences on their teams with moves, tera types, hold items, ev spreads, and sometimes even abilities. Pokemon are more than just their Pokedex number and a battle against a "mirror" team is often times harder and more skillful than a different team as you're trying to play a game of "figure out the hidden information first."
>>58290149Only the first two of those are at all unusual lil bro. Don’t make me set the grape street crips on yo white ass
>>58290195Offense is simply the better side of the scale to balance around.
>>58290383Balancing around offense doesn't make the meta more offensive. It never works that way.It just makes the meta more polarized, with teams trending more extremely to either HO or stall. HO because it's best at using the offensive mon, and stall because it's best at handling the offensive mon.
>>58290376>Only the first two of those are at all unusual lil bro.Did you know that the us government will sometimes kill alpacas or llamas for being "illegal pets" because they don't recognize them as livestock in random circumstances? Yeah they're pretty unusual as farm animals.
>>58290453They’ll kill cows if you try to keep one in your backyard. Watch your neck.
smogon is bad because the pokemon i like arent good
>>58290432they ban all the stallkillers, then say offense, which beats stallkillers, is too strong.stallfags make the rules, stallfags selectively apply them
>>58290533ah yeah so THAT'S why gen 9 is the most hyper-offensive metagame ever and they refuse to ban tera, a mechanic almost exclusively abused by hyper-offensive mons.
>>58290538gen 8 toxapex isnt banned yet
>>58290533See >>58288622Smogon made a format where nothing was banned, and stall was even more dominant.
>>58286414based
>>58280608I feel like people who only play VGC underestimate how fucked Iron Valiant is in Smogon. So to put into perspective, here are the VGC Reg I stats for Smeargle compared to the Smogon OU stats for Iron Valiant. Both in the highest ELO bracket.Even if VGC stopped using open team sheets, Smeargle wouldn't be THAT hard to predict. 3 of its 4 moves are a given.You don't even get a hint about what Iron Valiant will do until it does something.
>>58290699Smeargle on the left, Valiant on the right.3 of Smeargle's moves are >90%, while Valiant's most common move is only 68%.
>>58289952Espathra is probably the bare minimum power an Uber mon can be, outside of technical cases like Wynaut.
>>58280608Singles is a dogshit completely broke format, the gameplay consists of a 20 minutes staring contest, until someone makes a minor mistake and end up in an unwinnable position (it will take another 20 min to actually finish the game). So anything even so slightly unpredictable that makes the boring ass staring contest end earlier completely warps the meta, since singles just doesn't work, and even GF, fucking GF, the retarded ass devs, realized it's a bad format
>>58290582That meta wasn't out long enough to make any real conclusions on it, it takes months of serious play for actual metas to form.
>>58290699Elo is a name, not an acronym.
>>58280608Can you name or explain any kind of example or is this just another "non-comp player bitches about thing in comp that he made up in his head" thread?
>>58290699That is part of the problem. Iron Valiant is never seen in VGC so they don't have experience with how fucky it can be. It's just like how Singles players don't understand how awful Incineroar is to deal with because Incineroar is a shitmon in Singles.
>>58291204It's always the latter. Comp players don't mind Pokemon that can have a lot of sets, they mind when that Pokemon with dozens of sets can win games off of you guessing its set wrong.No one likes losing because the opponent's Iron Valiant was heavily telegraphed to be a special sweeper only for it to be Booster Energy + Swords Dance.
>>58290582post replays of baton pass, evasion (a singular instance of Bright Powder doesn't count), sleep, or king's rock flinch teams winning (or losing, just show that people even bothered to use the strategies) freedom cup matches faggot
>>58290936literally proven wrong two posts above you, lmao
>>58291204pretty much. smogon threads would disappear overnight or if people were forced to be held accountable for these dogshit opinions. if they said them anywhere else they'd become lolcows overnight
