I'll start.>Scarlet and Violet should have had level scaling
>>58306517Why is this a bad take?t. hasn’t played them
>>58306517https://youtube.com/watch?v=v7yV8Cxspnc
>Pokemon should have voice acting
>>58306521Level scaling is inherently dogshit and has never been implemented well in a single game. If your game has level scaling it means your game shouldn't even have levels to begin with.
>>58306517>W-What if there's an open world Pokemon where you can visit ALL the regions and challenge gyms in ANY order you want?!
>>58306526johtimmys…
>>58306534>Level scaling is inherently dogshitHow so?
>>58306564>put levels in game>make levels pointless in game
>>58306578I don't think you understand how people actually want level scaling to be implemented
>>58306588I think I understand perfectly how people actually want level scaling to be implemented.
since the thread hasn't started yet, i'll go first>scarlet/violet not having level scaling is goodand since i've also made such a great point, it's time to close this thread/thread
>>58306526this is the guy that spams /v/ with nostalgiabait threads about gsc
>>58306578Levels still dictate what moves your Pokemon learns when, and most evolutions. They don't exist solely for your powerfantasy of overlevelling over the next gym leader, can't imagine any other arguments against level scaling in an open world game, but be my guest.
>>58306650>Levels still dictate what moves your Pokemon learns whenwhich is pointless when NPCs have access to those same moves at the same rate you do>and most evolutionswhich is pointless when NPCs have access to those same evolutions at the same rate you do
>>58306657In what way does NPCs having access to the same stuff you have makes them pointless?I actually want NPCs to be strong.
>>58306669>In what way does NPCs having access to the same stuff you have makes them pointless?What's the difference between fighting an NPC with Ember who also uses Ember and fighting an NPC with Flamethrower who also uses Flamethrower?>I actually want NPCs to be strong.Which they never will be when they're using things at the exact same power level as you.
>>58306517>HMs are le bad
>>58306534But we have level scaling for gym leaders in plenty of romhacks. It works great.
>>58306697>But we have level scaling for gym leaders in plenty of romhacksAh yes the shitty poorly made romhacks use it so surely it must be good.>It works great.No it doesn't.
>make retarded thread>defend retarded opinion over and over againwhat's the point of this thread? someone turn it into a chansey thread at least
>they should make an HD2D pokemon game
>>58306709Stop being assblasted just because you can't prove level scaling is good.
A Pokemon being unsalvageable.
>>58306709OP thought he'd have a bunch of guys jerking him off for an opinion he got from youtube.
>>58306709kek
>>58306842Youtubers are the ones screeching about the game not having level scaling. Find a better cope.
>>58306851You're incapable of using your own words to explain why its bad.
>>58306877>put mechanic in game>put another mechanic in game which does nothing but make the first mechanic pointless
>>58306678>they can't be scaled to always be strongerYou're dumb
>>58306886>put work into training my pokemon>doesn't matter because NPC is guaranteed to have pokemon stronger than mineSee where the issue is, dumbassio?
>>58306878>put catching pokemon in game>the first pokemon you get invalidates the whole mechanicIt's kind of fun being a retard.
>>58306895>the first pokemon you get invalidates the whole mechanicAnd you won't be able to explain how because you just invented a false equivalence to pretend you have a point.
>>58306893>I need to always be stronger than the NPCsWhy are ESLs like this?
>>58306899Why would I catch pokemon when the game gives me free pokemon that are stronger than nearly anything I could capture?
>>58306903>I need to always be stronger than the NPCsThat's not what I said.>Why would I catch pokemon when the game gives me free pokemon that are stronger than nearly anything I could capture?How do I beat Totem Araquanid with the free Litten the game gave me?
>>58306913Easily, if you aren't a retard.
>>58306517On one hand, defeating overleveled enemies can be fun, but on the other hand, being overleveled yourself sucks because the game becomes an annoying chore. They should buff the gyms/bosses that you skipped.
>>58306920Cool! Explain how.
>>58306913> How do I beat Totem Araquanid with the free Litten the game gave me?Beans
>>58306929>avoids answering the question he's asked>reeeees when his questions aren't answered with an essayYou're such a faggot.
>>58306939>>avoids answering the question he's askedPoint out which question I avoided answering.>>58306938Explain how beans let me beat Totem Araquanid with the free Litten the game gave me.
>>58306517not really a great idea to start a thread by admitting you licked lead-painted walls every day as a child OP
>>58306951If you need this much explanation you might want to play the games before using them as examples.
>>58306955>>58306810
>>58306951Evasion, built in Sturdy/Focus Sash, boosted critical hit odds. You do play the games you’re talking about, right?
>>58306974So all RNG shit that doesn't actually guarantee I can win? And I need to waste time grinding for the beans anyway?Sounds like there is a benefit to catching Pokemon after all.
>he still can't explain how free powerful giftmons don't invalidate catchingkek
>>58306985Where was a guarantee needed as a criteria to beat the Totem? You don’t need to grind them either. Sounds like you don’t play the games you’re using as references.
>>58306985>he only uses moves that can never missWeird way to play.
>>58306657>>58306678>>58306913>>58306951
>>58306996>Where was a guarantee needed as a criteria to beat the Totem?When you claimed there's no benefit to catching Pokemon. If catching Pokemon guarantees me a win as opposed to only giving me a chance at a win, clearly there's still a reason to catch Pokemon.>You don’t need to grind them eitherExplain how I get beans without grinding.>>58306997Not really. Using moves that don't miss is the best strategy outside of PvP.
>>58307016>he can't tell anons apartAutism.>Using moves that don't miss is the best strategy outside of PvP.You don't play through the games exclusively using aerial ace and shock wave. Stop being such a disingenuous fag all the time.
>replying to every post>avoids this one >>58306986kek
What is the difference between the level scaling that people want in SV and encountering stronger leveled trainers when getting to a new area in literally any prior game? How does stronger enemies existing as you get stronger in any way invalidate the existence of the leveling mechanic? Do you just want to spend the whole game stomping weak enemies with no challenge?
>>58307038Considering he's talking about using the optimal strategy in PvE pokemon he absolutely does want that.
>>58306530came here to say this. most it should ever have is animal crossing babble to fill the silence during dialogue.
>wild pokemon and trainers don't scale>important events like gym leaders and rivals dosimple as and already kinda happens with Nemona's battles occurring after visiting a set number of gyms regardless of which ones they arethe only reason it will never happen is gamefreak being too lazy to design multiple teams per fight
>>58307016>When you claimed there's no benefit to catching Pokemon.Never said this. Try again.>Explain how I get beans without grinding.The games give you plenty that work in tandem with just petting your Pokemon. And you don’t even need to do it after every battle up to that point. If that’s a grind to you then battling or healing your Pokemon is a grind. There’s also the daily ones you can get from the PC. If you don’t believe it try it yourself.
>>58306969this thread brought to you by a retard that got filtered by final fantasy viii
>>58307028>You don't play through the games exclusively using aerial ace and shock waveI don't need to to use moves that don't miss.>>58307038>and encountering stronger leveled trainers when getting to a new area in literally any prior game?I'm rewarded for training my Pokemon or punished for not training them enough. With level scaling neither happens.>>58307069>Never said this>>58306895>The games give you plenty that work in tandem with just petting your PokemonSo I need to grind for them by wasting time petting my Pokemon. Got it.
>>58307083>I don't need to to use moves that don't miss.So RNG shit that doesn't guarantee a win is good now?
>>58307083oh no
>>58306517What's the problem with that? It's an open world game, why wouldn't you want important NPCs to scale with you?
>>58307083>Never said thisCorrect.>So I need to grind for them Nope. Come back to me when you do it for yourself and have actual experience with this.
>>58307091But I can guarantee wins by using moves with 100% accuracy. Do you understand how accuracy works?>>58307109>Correct.>>58306895>Nope.Yup. You literally explained how you need to grind for them.
>>58307112>CorrectI am, yes.>YupNope. Did you do it for yourself yet?
>>58307112>>58307097Here you go since you have an issue keeping track of who you’re talking to.
>still hasn't explained how free gift pokemon don't invalidate catching
>still hasn't explained how free gift pokemon does invalidate catching
>>58307147>no uESLs lmao. They're free, powerful, and strong enough to easily beat any pokemon game. Why would I waste my time catching pokemon (basically grinding) when it's completely unnecessary?
>>58307160>it's completely unnecessaryHow do I beat Totem Araquanid with the free Litten the game gave me?
>totem araquanidReddit tier skill issue
>>58306709If the bait works it works
>>58307160Ah yes The free LV 1 Toxel is extremely op
>>58307232Strong enough to beat the game and invalidate catching.
>>58307252Cool Play Sword and Shield Get that ToxelDrop the rest of your team into the pcBeat the rest of the game with just that ToxelCome on OP go prove your point
>>58307288>Drop the rest of your teamWhy would I drop my starter when my entire point is that giftmons invalidate catching?
>IT JUST IS, OKAY?: the thread
>>58306517>megas are good because they buff weaker pokemon
>>58306526obnoxious voice but it's true every pokemon game should be balanced more like johto
I think people rightfully have a problem with level scaling because theyre only ever given the shitty version where it literally becomes your level, when ideally, and i know it takes more effort than just setting opponent level equal ur level, but the gyms, as that and the rival are really the only things that should truly scale with you, get raised to match your badge count.Say;>0 badge12-15>1 badge~20>2 badge25-27>3 badge30-32>4 badge36-38>5 badge40-43>6 badge~48>7 badge~51>8 badge55-58Crucially, the teams aren't set to your level, but rather designed to a level range appropriate for the number of badges the player has. You should not be stuck fighting mirror matches, but rather teams meant to challenge the player at a given badge count.
>>58308322yeah, just realized this "implies" 9 gyms...bump up the >8 badge to 61-65 and that's the E4, with the Champ at 66 or so
>>58308322that's still bad
>>58308366...how? all it does is allow for an open world game to keep a traditional sense of levels. at no point are the levels brought up or down to match the player's.
>>58306530Fire Emblem Awakening-style voice acting
>>58308373>...how?Because it makes it impossible to fight a challenging gym ever and it makes progress pointless.
>>58306702>Not giving an argument as to why level scaling doesn’t workWe accept your defeat.
>>58308527>>58308471
>>58308461Still better than what we have
>>58306526it's not a good look when your average johto apologist like this turns out to be a tranny
>>58308471nigger what the fuck does that meandon't grind so much then retard, scaling doesn't mean match your fucking level at all times exactlyeven if it did, adding proper EVs, IVs and movesets would control how much of an advantage the scaled npc has over a normal playerdo you fucking fight gyms out of order on purpose for le difficulty
>>58306526this "le older fans love johto" claim is a lie btw
>>58308544>nigger what the fuck does that meanIf I want to fight a gym that's 20 levels higher than my Pokemon to get a sense of challenge it's impossible because your fucking retarded game scaled the levels downIf I want to feel a sense of accomplishment from beating a gym I gained nothing because your fucking retarded game automatically increased the levels of the next gym and I effectively made zero progress
>>58308322Instead of auto scaling the levels of the same Gym Leader's team, just make six to seven different teams for each Gym Leader and change them out depending on the number of badges someone has. Easily done.
>>58308555>i want to fight a gym thats 20 levels of higheroh, okay then most of this thread doesn't care about what you want, thanks for clearing that upnow that i know you're retarded i'm not going to knowingly respond to you and hopefully neither will anyone else
>>58308471anon, at that point you have a problem with levels in general, because nowhere did I say that they match your level.
>>58308555You have ten minutes to post a single hypothetical example of which Gym Leader, what Pokemon you use and what moves you pack to accomplish this, or correct your hyperbole, or you're larping. Because I don't believe you.
>>58308576>no repliesYeah, I knew you were larping. Smell you later anon.
>>58308566>oh, okay then most of this thread doesn't care about what you want,Most of this thread is people who are terrible at Pokemon games and also terrible at game design? Yeah true>>58308572>because nowhere did I say that they match your levelYou're still retardedly scaling them, which is bad.>>58308576Accomplish what? Fight a gym 20 levels higher? I literally did that in SV with Grusha. Are you so dogshit at Pokemon games you can't figure out a way to beat NPCs with a higher number than you?
>>58308620but how is it bad? is it because it doesnt conform to your outlier opinions, requiring literally impossible battles sometimes?is it bad because you personally dont like it when a gym is moderately challenging to all players and not just radical redtardedly impossible to all but you?
>>58308770>how is destroying sense of progression bad?>how is removing options for the player to challenge themselves bad?>how does making the game require actual thought to progress instead of letting the player lazily mash A in any direction they want bad?>how is homogenizing the game bad?>how is spending time implementing mechanics just to cancel them out by implementing another mechanic bad?
>>58308783>sense of progressionyou grow stronger regardless of enemy level. you can safely advance into higher level areas (remember, only the gyms and rival are "scaled")>removing challengenothing is stopping you from challenging gyms with lower levelled pokemon anyways. remember, the gyms arent scaled to you, but rather to the number of badges you have>actual thought to progresslevel scaling has no effect on that>homogenizing the gamehow is allowing players to challenge the gyms in any order without making them face terribly underlevelled opponents homogenizing? if anything, its heterogenizing as it allows for more varied playthroughs depending on gym order>implementation cancelling...how does that happen? just because a gym is different strengths depending on badge level doesnt cancel out any mechanics, unless you consider being extremely overlevelled a mechanic
>>58306517>Charizard is le overrated.No he isn't. They just knocked out of the park with him in their first try. Cry harder.
>>58308868>you grow stronger regardless of enemy levelNo I don't, because I'm just fighting bosses the same strength as me.>nothing is stopping you from challenging gyms with lower levelled pokemon anywaysWhy should I need to retardedly handicap myself just to get challenge?>level scaling has no effect on thatYes it does.>how is making all the bosses the same power level as you through the entire game homogenizing?>...how does that happen?levels are put into gamelevel scaling is also put into gamethe latter cancels the effect of the former>doesnt cancel out any mechanicsExcept it does.
>>58308293Explain in exhaustive detail how Mega Lopunny, Mega Beedrill, Mega Sableye, Mega Pidgeot, Mega Houndoom, ect are bad and how we'd totally be better off leaving them as worthless unusable shitmons
>>58306808i've always thought hd2d had unironic potential but people crank the bloom up to ungodly levels that just tank the whole thing
>>58306517>>58306534>>58306564Here's my fucking retarded take>Gyms should scale based on badges>Always have the option access multiple gyms>Should be more than 8 gyms in the region so you can pull a Gary Oak>Some Gym leaders should be cunts and refuse to scale down their parties
>>58309054> Explain in exhaustive detail how Mega Lopunny, Mega Beedrill, Mega Sableye, Mega Pidgeot, Mega Houndoom, ect are bad there’s no reason to use them when pokemon like mega salamence and metagross and blaziken exist>we'd totally be better off leaving them as worthless unusable shitmonsthey are still unusable shitmons, except for sableye which is fine even without the gimmick
>>58309054>No you can't change a mon's stat total>No you can't give them new abilities can be huge buffs>No you can't give them signature moves that provide nice buffs>You have to ruin their design with a gimmick digimon transformation
The seething replies to OP proves /vp/ is normie central Another normie take: anything related to customization. It should be removed from the game. You have a character, you play as that character. The only thing you should customize are gameplay related stuff such as...your Pokemons and nothing else
>>58309077>You have a character, you play as that character.i get that sentiment, after all it's a ROLE PLAYING game, but pokemon protagonists feel like pretty shitty characters in that regard, considering how blank slate they are. just silent hyper capable battle autist. and if the character's gonna be that shallow then at least let me make it look how i want it to
>>58306517My intelligent contribution to the thread is I think Gym Leaders should level scale, but trainers shouldn't. I think I picked this idea up from that 2 episode OVA? The one where Blue's Squirtle almost kills Red's Charmander? Red tells Brock he doesn't have any badges, so Brock only uses 2 Pokemon because his job isn't to systematically crush trainers, but test their competence. I like this idea, it feels a lot more natural. I agree though that trainers SHOULDN'T be scaled. There's a whole mixed world of trainers: children, hobbyists, professional trainers, dragon-tamers, rangers, people who use Pokemon for work, criminals, etc.. I don't think they should be scaled and I think a small part of the game should be developing an instinct for who to challenge and who not to challenge when and where. I find the idea that you could encounter a middle-aged Poke Fan Trainer in some cities' park and there's a decent chance she's just going to have a small team of pets: Snubbel, Clefairy, Pikachu, whatever, nothing over level 20. But then there's also a not-insignificant chance she's actually really skilled and has a Granbull, Raichu, Clefable, and maybe a Nidoqueen or an Arcanine, all over level 30.
>>58309091>one random preschooler somewhere in the region with a full team in the mid-high 60s
>>58309097>>58309091>Rich Boy has Pokemon significantly overleveled but they won't listen because he got them via p2w
>>58306517>GSC had a bad level curveGSC had a fine level curve. If you don't grind, you're likely not going to be at the same level as Clair, the Elite 4, Lance, or Red. But you don't need to be. You have access to choosing your own moves (tonnes of pokemon learn Ice Punch and are capable of 2hkoing all of Lance's Dragonites). You don't absolutely have to always win on your first try. You have access to lot of healing items. You have the option (the default) to switch out after you get a ko. Most importantly your badge boosts and loads of effort values that you've accumulated over your journey make an opposing pokemon that's your level much weaker. A team that you've had for a while can match up to Red's team easily a good 20 or so levels below him (this requires a tiny bit of grinding). This is my nuzlocke team that beat Red. I definitely over grinded here, but that's because it was an autismlocke and I wanted as many surviving members as possible. If I wanted to win without regards to surviving members, I could probably do so ten levels lower (not sure if a natural team would be that low after the kanto gym leaders though).Now GSC does have a problem here. A massive one. But it's the same problem as any pokemon game might have. You're not told how strong your pokemon are to the opponents. You'd think the levels of the opponents would be a good way to measure to, but you're wrong. Gamefreak is entirely at fault for that.Unless its the very early game, like pre-Falkner (and RBY with Charmander or Pikachu is worse with this), or raising eggs, there is no need for grinding in these games if you're not doing a challenge run.I can't speak for HGSS as they have a different stat system with no badge boosts, so maybe grinding is necessary there (but maybe grinding to Red there can be in the form of going to battle frontier and grinding bp for tutor moves and powerful items which sounds much more fun than facing off against Ponytas and Ursarings over and over)
>>58309067>there’s no reason to use them when pokemon like mega salamence and metagross and blaziken existOf course there is you fucking worthless, soulless retard niggerMy reason is they're fun and I feel like it>b-but they aren't the top .00001% for heckin' VGC viabilit-Don't fucking care, no guard hurricane is based>They are still unusable shitmonsAbsolute, delusional retard take to say about Lopunny who was a top OU threat in SM>inb4 aaiiiieee he mentioned singles I'm going fucking insaaaane>>58309070They literally did multiple of these things for numerous pokemon that received mega evolutions>Beedrill, Pidgeot, Alakazam, and Ampharos all recieved stat buffs to their base forms in Gen 6>Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza got signature moves>Ampharos, Heracross, Sceptile, and Lopunny directly received buffed movepools due to their mega evolutions (the only reason Lopunny even got close combat in SS afterwards is likely due to having a fighting type form, too)Mega haters literally don't like Pokemon, they only care about metaslop and disregard 99.99% of everything else in the entire game because it's not what muh heckin eceleb troon competitors are using
>>58309102>that one USUM trainer who was the little kid using his older brother's kangaskhan but he had no idea what he was doing with it so he just spammed fake out after turn 1 and fling with no held item
>>58309070i like the designs, but my problem is that they (probably) prevent the 2 stage and 1 stage pokemon from ever having evolutions in the future. for a few seconds of the mega dimensions trailer i thought they gave pikachu a mega and was excited that the trend might be broken. if megas stay forever, then they're kinda ok, but i'm not sure if they will.
>>58309125>if megas stay forever, then they're kinda ok, but i'm not sure if they will.That's literally the point of Champions which is THE hub for competitive battling in the future
>>58309097>>58309102>>58309117Exactly, you understand my vision. >>58309091>I like this idea, it feels a lot more natural.To expand on my idea a little more, they should maybe have like three teams:-One that scales with held badges. -One for post elite four re-matches. -One that's just *their* personal every day team you can encounter outside of the gym. I think Misty in the ?Anime? commented on how the Cerulean City Gym has an aquarium and her and her sisters share a (literal) pool of water pokemon they keep and raise there. Gym leaders having a gym-team that's raised at the gym would add a more grounded reason as to why the Gyms are often weird fucking gobble-de-gook theme parks. It would also give the Gym leaders more screen time and personality. Some of these cunts you see them once and they're gone forever.
>>58309142yeah, but that means lopunny and mawile are doomed in the main campaign of every future game past ZA
>>58309157I doubt it when Archaludon exists since its pre-evo was literally made to be a single stage mon with a gigantamax formAnd even if that's wishful thinking regional variants can be made with no rhyme or reason
>>58306578Levels aren’t pointless though. They make it so you can onlock new moves and evolve Pokemon in a way that is intuative.Not having a levelscaling mechanic in turn makes openworld gameplay pointless since it causes the game to have only 1 real path. And no, fighting the 8th gym leader who has lvl 40 fully evolved Pokemon with your lvl 5 starter isn’t a real path.
>>58309173>>58306657
>>58306517>Open world fits well with pokemon!>Pokespe is peak!>We need yet another eeveelution!>Meowscarada is hot! Hot!>Ashninja is the coolest pokemon ever created!>Mega Evolution is the best gimmick!>Pokemon games should be darker!>Why isn't there any voice acting in Pokemon?
>>58309206(me)>HGSS is THE BEST pokemon game ever!!!!!!!
>>58309206>voice acting BAD!!!>scenes like pic related are so BADASS and COOL when the guy singing literally makes no noise!!!!Why are boomtards like this...?
>>58309197Besides the weird obsession with mirror matches, if anything that makes it more challenging since you will have to navigate someone just as skilled as you, if not moreso.then again, you just want to play kaizomon style hacks, dont you, and force that level of challenge onto the common player.
>>58309231>i-it’s more challenging when the npcs are weaker!!sure buddy
>>58306517Kill yourself anon
>>58306986>>58307034>>58307142>>58307147You are the most annoying, insufferable faggot Zoomer Latino that I have ever come across on this board
>>58306530For cutscenes. Piers" singing" is awkward.
>>58309229
This thread is why we need to go back to the good 'ol days of bullying
>>58306517"/vp/ should be a red board"
>pokemon should have voice actingInstant mouthbreather alert
>Pokémon should be open world
>pokemon needs good graphics>if I don't have literally 1000+ box fillers to pick from, the game is ruined>Beta Arceus is just a placeholder
>>58310104>Gamefreak apologist>Anti-natdex shill>Beta Arceus cultist3 strikes. Fuck off my board.
>>58309229>i-it makes no sense!!
>>58310145I use this when I talk shit to dumb people lol. >I bet you can't even imagine the apple
>>58306530I would agree if they didn't stop creating singers characters like Piers and Rhyme
>he still can't explain how giftmons don't invalidate catching
>>58309229It's the money, retard. Why spend half the game's budget on voice actors in every available language when they can't even shit out a single game that looks good and runs smoothly? If you think they're going to increase the budget for it you haven't been paying attention.
>>58306517If that means the game didn't have so many arbitrary gates then yes, wild encounters being scaled would be nice.
>>58306534It doesn't have to be 1:1 scaling. Personally I'd like to see something more intuitive and dynamic, like NPC trainers gain the equivalent of a local wild battle in Exp for every battle you fight, with an added slight chance of adding another member to their team. I'd like it to apply to wild Pokemon too.
>>58309106this holy shit
>>58308548joe is a shill not a fan
>the sv dlc is better than base game!>kieran and carmine are hot>anything positive regarding this dlc fuck the teal mask and indigo disk
>>58308555if you want to fight a gym leader 20 levels higher than you then just get new mons at a low level lolthis way you can fight several higher level gym leaders instead of beating the highest level and then the rest are just even easier to beat
>>58310915>j-just handicap yourself!!!just don't design your game like shit
>>58310929you're already doing that by skipping the part of the game meant to raise you to the gym's equivalent level bro ain't no difference
>>58310145>>58310174>just pretend the game actually has voices, goy!!! it's WAAAAAYYYYYY too expensive for the small indie company to meet the bare minimum standards for their top selling games!!!
Why does the average /vp/ thread slowly descend into a raging, toxic, schizo thread every time?
None of y'all are remotely as special as y'all think y'all are
>>58312050>y'all y'all y'allYou are not from the South, stop using that word you poser faggot
