That’s just HMs in general

what's the matter, too deep for you?

Pre-PSS

Single special stat

>>58352191
you cant escape!

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>>58352191

>>58352398
>all dark moves became physical
>nearly all poison moves became special

Actual dungeons

>>58352398
how were you supposed to know this? was it ever actually explained in the games?

>>58352191
And yet it was 4chan who complained about fog

>>58352398
Funny you even post this since you got filtered by the phys/special split which is far more conplex

>>58352442
>things that never happened

>>58352442
4chan complains about everything. Don't take it personally :^)

>>58352398
>Playing gen 3
>know about the split
>Have Gardevoir on team
>Use the shadow ball TM in Mt. Pyre on her
>Learn too late that ghost is somehow A PHYSICAL FUCKING TYPE
Fucking why? Did they see shadow claw and think that every single ghost type needs to be physical? What the fuck?

>>58352484
>NOOOOO NOT THE EVIL EVASIONRINO!!!! IT’S RNG!!! UNCOMPETITIVE!!! I LET MY OPPONENT 5 TURNS TO SET UP BY DOING POINTLESS STALL SHIT AND NOW I STRUGGLE TO BEAT HIM HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME

>>58352522
The only ghost move in gen 1 was lick

>>58352442
It's always reddit, and when it's not, it's the redditors who post here.

>>58352457
>the phys/special split which is far more conplex
literally how. it made everything so flowcharty
it was far more interesting presplit when you might have to make tradeoffs and invest in a mons weaker stat for good coverage or stab access

>>58352532
did they forget they added ghosts or something? ghost type didn't even work correctly. what made them think ok we have 1 ghost move that's good then make nothing else.

>>58352549
I would maybe agree with you if all mons and playstyles suffered equally but they didn’t. Type-based split only nerfed offense. Stall actually benefited from it.

>>58352640
Dragon didn’t even have a single move that wasn’t fixed damage

>>58352425
It's easy to figure out the special category, it's the elements (fire, water, grass, electric, ice) + psychic (duh) + dragon (the special snowflake type)
Normal, Fight, Flying, Ground, Rock, Bug and Steel just make sense to be physical
You can argue poison causes a physical illness, that's why it's physical
Ghost and Dark make NO sense and I bet Ghost is physical because of gen 1 bullshit, and Dark is special because it's Steel's counterpart

>>58352398
>dark is special
>ghost is physical
Even johto uncs admit that this was bullshit

>>58352208
I do think it's a bit ridiculous when my water mon needs to learn 3 fucking HM moves, one of which is whirlpool that does like 30 damage or something

>>58352549
>it made everything so flowcharty
you don't know what this means

>>58352897
stop projecting

>>58352425
There's a TV in your backpack that explains this in FRLG

>>58352398
I started when Gen 2 were the newest games and I didn't know about this until 5 years ago. As a kid I always assumed the punches and stuff were physical, and that shadow ball was special (especially since it has a fucking 10% chance to lower SpDef).

>”Reddit filter mechanics!!”
>Majority of posts are going to be posting mechanics literally no one likes, not even the contrarians posting mechanics
Just summed up the entire thread. You can leave now.

>>58352703
>Type-based split only nerfed offense
It's case by case, really. It helped out Clefable, Gyarados, Breloom, Dragonite, Muk, Nidoking line.

It did hurt a lot of things, though. Gengar actually wasn't as impactful this gen. Zapdos, Swampert, Celebi, Milotic, Aerodactyl, Blissey, Jolteon, Moltres, Registeel, and Claydol were hurt by it.

Either way they went, EVERYONE is getting mogged by Ironhead Serene Grace Jirachi.

>>58352527
>>58352484
>”Bro just don’t let your opponent get 5 evasion boosts!”
>When 1 Double Team already makes your 100% accurate moves less accurate than Stone Edge
>They are also likely going to get at least 2 Double Teams (60% accuracy now) off because of how widely distributed the move is, and they can always force you to switch
>God forbid they have Minimize where using it twice means your moves are less reliable than Dynamic Punch
You’re both retarded

>>58353087
I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks Defog and Evasion are fun mechanics

>>58353163
>he didn't just use shock wave
The fog section of DP is kino if you aren't an idiot.

>>58352191
HMs filter 90% /vp/ too.

>>58352703
>Stall actually benefited from it.
I blame Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock, Magic Guard, and Gliscor.

>>58353087
I mean obviously if you only hang around the people who got filtered you’re going to think that

>>58352737
There are rom hacks like Kalos Crystal that keep pre-pss, but flip this and it makes a world of a difference.

>>58353159
Have you tried actually attacking the opponent instead of letting him get turns

>>58353198
Reading comprehension

>>58352398
>inb4 splitschizo

>>58353188
Defog lol

>>58353163
Some mons and mechanics make sense working this way like it or not. The universe doesn’t have to be less varied and less interesting just to avoid introducing elements you don’t like.

>>58353188
That, or no guard, or cloud nine, or other weathers, etc.

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>WAAAAH WHY IS THE TYPE THAT'S GOOD AT OFFENSE DOING ITS JOB OF BEING GOOD AT OFFENSE

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>>58352745
I gotchu senpai'

>>58353214
>Have Choice Specs Hydreigon locked into Dark Pulse out
>Opponent switches in Clefable
>”Well I want to preserve my Hydreigon. It can’t KO that Clefable while Moonblast can KO my very powerful attacker.”
>Switch out into a Cinderace with Gunk Shot
>Clefable, unbeknownst to you as Clefable can run dozens of sets, clicks Minimize
>”Well fuck. Gunk Shot now has less than a 50% chance to hit.”
>In the universe where you miss, Clefable just Minimizes a 2nd and 3rd time making it nearly impossible to hit more than even before
>In the universe where you do hit (which is less than 50% btw), Clefable survives because its max physical bulk and uses Minimize a second time, then heals in the off chance you hit again (at that point it’s a 34.3% chance to hit)
Clefable now slowly steamrolls the rest of your team that can’t hit it, or at least drains the PP and HP of your Pokemon enough that the rest of the Evasion user’s team can’t be broken down any more.

>>58353318
>Unaware? What's that?
>Haze? What's that?
>Roar? What's that?
Maybe you should try not being shit at the game instead of screeching about game mechanics.

>>58353318
What happens in the universe where you have unaware, no guard, or any move with the effect of these abilities? Or where you taunt it? Or haze it? Or set gravity or some shit? Or have stomp/body slam/any move that cuck minimize mons? Or any way to force the opponent out?

>>58353350
>Blissey with snatch

>>58353318
>The following moves deal double damage against a Pokémon that has used Minimize, and bypass accuracy checks:

>Body Slam
>Dragon Rush
>Flying Press
>Heat Crash
>Heavy Slam
>Malicious Moonsault (Z-Move)
>Steamroller
>Stomp

>>58353336
>>58353350
>”Bro just don’t the opponent set up!”
>*Post one of many examples why that wouldn’t work in practice*
>”W-well just use things that bypass evasion then!!”
Goal post moved. And btw
Abilities that “counter” Evasion don’t work because tons of Pokemon learn Double Team. What are supposed to do when your “Evasion counter” is Unaware Quagsire and the Evasion user is a Grass type?
Moves like Roar and Haze don’t work either for similar reasons, but now you can add in moves like Taunt, abilities like Magic Bounce, or simple type advantages.
And reminder that Smeargle of all Pokemon almost caused mid-season rule changes for VGC because of Evasion boosts it could get with Moody. The same season with Mega Rayquaza, Xerneas, and Primals.

>>58353393
>>”Bro just don’t the opponent set up!”
correct
>>”W-well just use things that bypass evasion then!!”
correct

your argument also applies to defense boosting moves so maybe you should screech to the smogshit council to ban those too

>>58353393
>What are supposed to do when your “Evasion counter” is Unaware Quagsire and the Evasion user is a Grass type?
>Tanks a hit with the grass resist berry
>Has a turn to do whatever you planned to do in case the opponent evasion haxed

>>58352425
as a kid playing pve it really didn't matter if you knew this or not

>>58353382
>Bro use Dragon Rush against a Clefable!!!
Evasion defenders are genuine retards. More news at 11

>>58353438
>Bro Clefable is the only Pokemon that can use Minimize!!!
Campaignshitters are genuine retards. More news at 11

Imagine playing pvp lel

>>58352191
Megas, in the sense that if you like them, you are a redditor

>>58353444
Clefable not being the only Evasion user is the problem, retard. If you use one of those moves, you can run into a Pokemon using Minimize that’s immune or resists said move.

>>58353461
>If only I had 5 more Pokémon.

>tfw you remember fairy exists
what a dogshit type

>>58353461
anon I hate to break this to you but pokemon can run more than 1 move and you can have up to 6 pokemon on your team

>>58353486
source?

>>58353393
>Moves like Roar and Haze don’t work either for similar reasons
If a Pokémon gets Soundproof as an ability, then it doesn't get any evasion moves. I don't see what's preventing Haze from working, other than your unwillingness to adapt to evasion teams.

>>58353318
>gets outplayed
>this is the games fault
lmao stfu

>>58353469
>>58353486
>Bro to counter this 1 move you should have to run multiple Pokemon with these specific moves some of which are exclusive moves!
Ok retard

>>58353522
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Taunt_(move)

>>58353544
Just hit the pokemon anyway, works on my machine

>>58353544
If you lose to evasion so much you should counter it instead of crying like a bitch.

>>58353544
>actually humoring evasiontards
lmao, you deserve it

>>58353159
there are so many moves that don't miss now

>>58353553
Name one pokemon that gets taunt, double team, AND mean look/arena trap. Retards like you are running Smogon.

>>58353553
Does ANYONE get Taunt and sand attack/double team???

>>58353603
Pokemon that Taunt and Double Team or Minimize in just SV
>Darkrai
>Deoxys
>Iron Valiant
>Meowscarada
>Greninja
>Lycanroc
>Minimkyu
>Noivern
>Flamigo
>Inteleon
>Decidueye-H
>Froslass
>Glalie
>Volbeat
>Muk
>Chandelure
>Overqwil
Pokemon that also have Mean Look in SV
>Gardevoir
>Gallade

>>58353603
Mew. Retard.

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>>58353603
>>58353627
i can think of a few

>>58353657
this is taunt + evasion move + trapping move btw

>>58353310
now that's a word filter i havent seen in quite some time

>>58353657
>evasion trap viability

>S+
>Mega Gengar

>S
>Malamar

>>58353667
You also don’t need a trapping move or ability. I don’t know why Evasion tards think they can’t just use Taunt more than once.

>>58353688
They can't taunt me if I taunt them first with prankster

>>58353706
>you use taunt first
>get hit by an actual attack
You guys are so close to learning how to play the game.

>>58353712
>evasion user has perfect foresight
>the one against them doesn’t
Stupid smogon player

>>58353734
>making a simple prediction is perfect foresight
I see why you're so bad. It's cause you're stupid.

>>58353712
That's just basic predictions, but now you can't use evasion, taunt, or mean look. Lock-on is also a move that exists.

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>>58352191
Any single player rpg design philosophy really.

>>58352191
>The fog is deep
Who says this? You call fog thick.

>>58352398
If it has an eeveelution (or is dragon): special
Anything else: physical
Seems simple to me

>>58352522
Made the same mistake and legitimately only realized it a month after I finished the game, lmao. Worst part is I had an Absol who could of used it a lot better

>>58353159
252+ Atk Hawlucha Flying Press vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey after Minimize: 750-884 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Use some actual strategy like moves that become guaranteed to hit on Minimize users, or the long list of always-hit moves, or pokemon with Illuminate/Keen Eye (they ignore positive evasion stages and cannot have their accuracy lowered), or pokemon with No Guard, or a mon with Compound Eyes, or a Wide Lens, or...
Use Mind Reader and Sheer Cold on Articuno because that's an actual set in the Battle Subway.
Or use Whirlwind/Roar to phaze them out (on a pokemon with Infiltrator, if you're going to get autistic about Substitutes).

Evasion isn't even that common of a strategy on the BSS ladder, you're making a big deal out of a problem that doesn't exist.

>>58352534
Yeah 4channers will blame everyone but themselves unless it's a good thing.

>>58352398
>Ghost: Physical
Huh?

>>58355290
the only damaging ghost move that used stats was lick.

During the split, the only gen1-3 move that became SpA was shadow ball.
Even including gen 4, that only added ominous wind.
6 to 2 physical to special.

the entirety of HGSS

>>58352191
team preview

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>>58354734
>Yeah bro just use Hawlucha on every team
>and assume the only Pokemon your opponent will use with minimize is Chansey and not Chandelure
>And hope your opponent is a genuine retard who doesn’t know the mechanics of the game
>And hope your opponent isn’t use Double Team or both Double Team and Minimize
>And also hope your opponent’s Chansey doesn’t Tera to a Fighting resist

>>58355952
How is this a filter?

>>58356032
Hated by scrubs, despite being a kino ability.

>>58355952
>>58356058
I'm also confused, is the idea that Archeops is mega broken in the story mode but noobs are afraid to use it?

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>>58355976
>Minimize Chandelure

>>58355952
if they were going to give it a nerf ability, they should have gave it anti-levitate.
It doesn't fly far enough off the ground to be protected from Ground type moves.

I also think that Emergency Exit should work like a reverse Pursuit so that it's not identical to Wimp Out. Deal some chip damage on the forced switch.
I'd also make Wimp Out switch before a lethal hit to a different pokemon at random.

I'd also like if Slow Start doubled HP and Defense while their attack and speed are halved, and if Truant healed 1/4 health on the lazy turns. Give them some sustain so they actually survive the nerf.

I also wish Type: Null and Silvally got Recover because they share a lot of movepool with Arceus already for obvious lore reasons, and Recover Eviolite Type:Null would actually be kind of cool.

>>58352705
yeah but 1 the one single ghost move?

>>58352191
Critical Hits

>>58356133
So you got filtered.

>>58353159
if they pressed iron defense instead your 100% accurate move would, on average, do less damage than after a double team
possibly bringing your damage down to below the threshold where they can just outheal it unless you crit, which has lower odds than landing a hit even at +6 evasion
this is actually less RNG if you think about it

>>58352745
your main water mon doesn't. you can just pick a random one to teach it to, though of course this requires you to use the PC to change your team around which is always a slow boring process because GF is retarded

>>58352191
>reddit filter
Are you a boy or a girl?

Hyper Beam AKA 'Your opponent now has 10 HP left and you just lost a turn' beam is the most reddit move in the franchise. Shit only exists for anime purposes and making pseudos look cool.

>>58359087
it shouldve kept having no charge on KO from gen 1

>>58353416
correct, but I'd bet most kids intuition was that moves were classed physical or special not based on type but by what the move did

>>58352532
and the only ghosts in gen 1 were entirely special based too lmao

>>58352210
kek

>>58357467
1a. Countering Iron Defense is way easier than Evasion. Iron Defense will only reduce damage from physical moves, not special moves. So you already have half of all attacking moves you can use to counter Iron Defense easily.
In contrast, Evasion only has so many moves that can bypass accuracy and they are either exclusive or weak as shit.
1b. Additionally status moves are 100% unaffected by defense buffs like from Iron Defense. You can always use Taunt, Trick, non-poison Toxic, Will-o-wisp, Spore, etc. so you also have all your status moves as options as well.
2. No matter how high your Def or SpD get, you will always take damage from an attack that you’re not immune to. If the opponent is at 1 HP, they will never survive an attack with 100% accuracy.
3. Because its entirely luck based, matches can easily be swung through dice roles rather than skill, which is the core issue with Evasion.
Even if +1 evasion is just missing 25% of the time, that doesn’t mean you can’t miss 4 times in a row. Sometimes you never miss your attacks. It’s all dice rolls and players should be encouraged to play skillfully instead of relying on rng to win.
4. As a bonus, Evasion is just heavily stacked compared to Accuracy, which is just stupid.

>>58352398
most of these make sense (not poison ghost or dark) the issue is how much it limits pokemon and move design
the elemental punches are top tier concepts but the pokemon you'd think should want to PUNCH things get 0 value from them because they all have low special stats. instead, incorporeal ghosts and frail eggheads are the best at punching

>>58359087
it was actually one of the best moves in gen 1

>>58353670
how about cuck fuckboy wife's boyfriend SJW weeb

>>58352425
You were supposed to simply not be mentally retarded.

>>58352737
Ghost are literally real, while evil only exists in the heart. You're retarded.

>>58353068
>Shadow Ball has a chance to lessen Special Defense
>When it was a fucking physical move
Holy shit I thought they just added that in Gen 4 to fit the split. Did Gamefreak even know ghost moves were considered physical until then?

>>58359829
>it was only good in kantoooooooooo

>>58352191
fog is based
they should do more of these terrain debuffs during solo adventure

>>58360712
no they just assumed you aren’t retarded and know that pokemon have more than one offensive stat

>>58352425
I’m pretty sure the phys/spec split was done for hardware limitation reasons.

>>58360769
How does it make any sense that a physical attack hits you so hard it reduces your special defense?