idk manto me Ash beating Cynthia was more impactful and important than him beating Leon
>>58357299All matches sucked ass. Them throwing the bait of Cynthia wanting to drop battling to then go "lmao no" is just lame too.
Ash vs Cynthia should have been with both using all gimmicks - his 3 (4 with aura powers buffing Lucario) vs her Mega+DynaIt makes more sense for them, since she was the only one besides Ash with more than 1
>>58357299I mean I can see why, but we've got>Cynthia JOBS to freaking Ashand>Charizard JOBS to freaking Ashand both of them were fucking hilarious.
>Ash and CynthiaHave over a decade of history>Ash vs LeonForced shilling.Yeah, no shit.Both matches were shit anyway.
>>58357372Really doesn't help that without plot armor Leon is weaker than Cynthia. Hell, even Kieran is better than the so called unbeatable champion.
>>58357299She should have been the final champion he faced.
>>58357386What does “plot armor” mean in this context? Plot armor is about characters inexplicably surviving not “I think this character should be stronger”
>>58357299Too bad the battle sucks ass
>>58358015>Too bad the battle sucks assall of them did, but Ash vs Cynthia was still the best one in the M8
>>58357970About how Leon was a hype merchant who got obnoxiously badly written battles and victories and previously established characters to prop him up completely disrespecting the old characters and he got wanked so hard that Ash defeating him became borderline impossible to believe and even to this day people still call the fight bullshit because Ash was just barely able to eke out a win despite Ash using all three gimmicks and then Amie buffs as the cherry on top of the cake.If you want a more clear example of plot armor for Leon: there's how Diantha managed to Psychic grab the Wildfire and Airstream, combine them... and Leon just overpowers that with just a normal Wildfire. Just because fuck you.And let's not even mention the meme gorilla sweep.All because were in Gen 8 and so Gen 8 had to be shilled. Had we been in Gen 9 Geeta would have been the one getting wanked like crazy like that instead.The sad thing is that in his first appearance it was nowhere near like that. Leon vs Lance was a pretty close even match. No idea why decided to do such a 180 because instead of hype all it did was kill any of it because of how unrealistically stupidly strong they made him.>inb4 he's just supposed to be that strong broCongrats. That's the whole point. It's lame and gay and makes for an uninteresting storyline as a whole.>Plot armor is about characters inexplicably surviving not “I think this character should be stronger”That's not what plot armor means either.
>>58357299the animation was bad
What cynthianimals don't want to accept is that Ash had a better friendship and rivalry with Leon than with her.Leon was more developed and had more backstory than her despite appearing in fewer episodes
>>58358114>that Ash had a better friendship and rivalry with Leon than with herLMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOMeanwhile in reality: When Leon poured his heart out to Ash about his insecurities on that episode they went to hang out/train together all Ash did was go SUGEEEEEE DANDE-SAN WAKU WAKU SURUNDA BATTORU SHI YO ZE.Ash didn't ever once treat Leon like a person. He was like a teenage girl in front of his celebrity crush. It was disgusting and embarrassing to see, but what else can you expect from shitneys lobotomized Ash?
>>58358167>SUGEEEEEE DANDE-SAN WAKU WAKU SURUNDA BATTORU SHI YO ZE.Correct, that's why they were so close to each other.As Sonia and Goh noticed, Leon is basically a grown up version of Ash.
>>58358175>that's why they were so close to each other.They weren't though?A person that is close to another person does not act like that in such a situation.But sure bro, keep pretending Ash acting like a 13 years old teenage girl in front of Robert Pattinson during the peak Twilight era means they were close.>Leon is basically a grown up version of Ash.I knew I should have written the >inb4 "Leon is akchually Ash like a grown-up because the show kept repeating it like a parrot 24/7 desperately trying to convince me of it while completely failing at showing it".Too late now, but that you said the line says it all.
Leon sucked as a character + stupid design and ads capethats why he didnt get as popular as GF wanted him toNot even fujos/yumes wanted him, they went for Raihan
I'm still mad that Leon stole Ash's chance to beat this fag himself.
No amount of forced shilling would have ever made Leon a satisfactory final boss because SwSh were just completely unsatisfactory games and were proven as such with how fucking badly SV, also unsatisfactory games, dominated and replaced SwSh in the public conscienceAsh could have fought literally anyone else and it would've been more satisfying except Steven because anime Steven had zero interactions with Ash the only reason they fought is because the Masters 8 was a popularity contest, not a true test of power level
>>58358586It's hilarious how they genuinely thought people would be satisfied by Ash beat Leon who beat Alan so Ash beats Alan logic.The utter lack of self-awareness was truly beyond description
>>58358586>tfw ash will never beat himOh no no no... Alain is just too powerful...
>>58357299Because Cynthia is an actual respected and mythical trainer, unlike Leon who was forced as "the best trainer" which made him unlikeable since day one. Also, it was a way better battle, the only good thing about the finals was pikachu remembering all his friends and the first op playing
>>58357372>Have over a decade of historyIf this were a regular show that'd make sense.But if you got to the point in the ashnime where cynthia first shows up then you clearly don't care about that at all.
Should Tobias have returned?
>>58357326>Them throwing the bait of Cynthia wanting to drop battlingHoly shit, true, my brain decided to totally forgot about that.
>>58358691Yes, they should have had him job to Leon too just to show the world how STRONG Leon is.
>>58358676>h-h-he’s unlikeable because he ruined my fanfic that cynthia is the strongest!!
>>58358676Let's be real if we were playing power levels I'm sure Game Freak would pivot to Lance actually totally being the strongest guys. Kukui's entire backstory was "damn Kanto got hands"The only reason they pushed Leon so hard wasn't even because of him it was because of his Charizard. It was so bad we had 3 fucking Charizards in the Masters 8 and somehow one of them wasn't even fucking ASH
>>58358685History clearly matters considering shitneys was full of vapid sad attempts of nostalgiawank left and right because no one was giving a shit about the "new" stuff.The only one times people gave a shit about shitneys was whenever it was doing stuff like that.It was fucking embarrassing. And the worst part is that they fucked it up half of the time anyway.
>>583587562 Charizard (Leon, Alain) and 3 Dragonite (Lance, Iris, Ash). It was a big Dragon-type wanking showcase, only 1 out of 8 didn't use a dragon.
>>58358834I genuinely don't understand TPC's recent obsession with Dragonite.
>>58357299Not really. The champion fights at the end of JN were all so impotent and banal that it’s worthless to split hairs over them. Though that’s really just JN as a whole.
>>58358840It's "the original Pseudo" and the fake final boss of Gen I so they think it has any ground as a Pokemon people give a fuck about. It's end state Kanto pandering where literally any Kantomon can be a forced mascot as long as there was some importance to itIt says a lot the Kalos Megas shown off in Z-A got more attention than fucking Mega Dragonite
>>58358997I believe G-max for Dragonite would've been better as:1. All other Kanto E4 Aces (Lapras, Machamp, Gengar, Starters) have G-Max2. It would be an awesome fanservice nod to the Lighthouse and Giant Dragonite epiaode.3. We don't have a single G-Max pseudoAnd a fun fact: outside Pokemon used by Kieran and Carmine, Drayton's Dragonite is the only BB E4 Pokemon which is not part of BB Dex. And I'm not sure why Dragonite of all Pokemon.
>>58357372I agree with these points. Seeing Cynthia know a bit about Ash’s battling style from past observations makes her stand out more. She’s the only to set a trap to take down Pikachu.
>>58357372And still, knowing Pikachu is his Ace and seeing Ash has a Lucario and Gengar she forgot to keep a single Ground type move on Garchomp...Not to mention not Barton Passing speed boosts from Togekiss to Garchomp.
>>58359047>Both matches were shit anyway.Don't need to reiterate how all of Ash matches were full of contrived writing to gift him the wins.Only Lance vs Diantha was a clean match. And that's marred anyway by the slideshow-tier animation.
>>58358721>fanficSinnoh remakes Cynthia is the strongest trainer in the games
>>58359129sinnoh remakes say palmer is the strongest in the game
>>58358057>ut how Leon was a hype merchant who got obnoxiously badly written battles and victories and previously established characters to prop him up completely disrespecting the old characters and he got wanked so hard that Ash defeating him became borderline impossible to believe and even to this day people still call the fight bullshit because Ash was just barely able to eke out a win despite Ash using all three gimmicks and then Amie buffs as the cherry on top of the cake.Yeah that's ASH having plot armor, not Leon, that is pretty textbook plot armor lol.
>>58359129>Sinnoh remakes Cynthia is the strongest trainer in the gamescorrectand tbf game Leons best team is not even in top 5, maybe not even in top 10>>58359139incorrect
>>58357299Neither one was all that impactful. Ash's Orange Islands win was more impactful. >>58357372>Have over a decade of historyI've seen these types of post a lot. Ash and Cynthia dynamic really isn't all that interesting or unique compared to other characters. It's just that fans really wanted to see a battle between Ash vs Cynthia.
>>58359793>It's just that fans really wanted to see a battle between Ash vs Cynthia.Gee, I wonder why.Almost like they had a lot of history together like them saving the world a few times over together, having Cynthia watching over and influencing Ash's most important and best rivalry and Ash straight-up living with Cynthia for a extended period of time or something...
DP was the best ashnime seasonCynthia the best champ (in both anime and games)ofc ppl wanted Ash vs Cynthiatoo bad it had to be in JN
>Dragon Claw>Draco Meteor>Scale Shot>Stealth Rock
>>58359864Draco Meteor was kino and BTFO'd irisStealth Rock would fuck up Leons Charizard
>>58359843Glad you completely ignored what I said.>Almost like they had a lot of history together like them saving the world a few times over togetherSo did the other Champions. >Ash straight-up living with Cynthia for a extended period of time or somethingWhich didn't built up anything.
>>58358997>It says a lot the Kalos Megas shown off in Z-A got more attention than fucking Mega Dragonite Good riddance mega dragonite is dogshit
>>58358997Because Mega Dragonite looks fucking awful and the reception to it was lukewarm at best.
bump
>>58357299Ash didn’t beat Leon though, he cheated.>>58357386>SHIThia copeLeon is the strongest champion in the franchise. SHIThia lost to Iris.
Ash going unga bunga and never switching against Cynthia (and his one attempt had his Pokemon argue against it and refuse) really bothered me.
>>58360298>So did the other Champions.And look how people don't care about the Steven fight because Ash no history or personal connection at all with him.Meanwhile you have Lancefags going about how Ash should have fought him instead exactly for that reason, because Ash's got history with him and a genuine thematic connection as they're both Kanto.Almost like fights between characters with history are more compelling fights since they make you as invested as the characters are into them.>Which didn't built up anything.Because shitneys is full of terrible writing. Did you somehow miss this thread's topic or something?Go watch Solo Leveling if all you want is pretty colors and le ebin sakuga. Something you didn't even get on shitneys so why are you bending over backwards defending it's shit writing? Careful you don't turn into yet another Shaun. That's the possible fate of every anti-Cynthiaschizo after all.
