what does Game Freak have against Square Enix?>GAMEFREAK IS SAYING THE PROBLEM WITH THEIR GAMES IS THAT THEY OUTSOURCE TOO MUCH>nintendo persuaded to outsource ot Square.
>no team asano pokemon game.that's a missed opportunity by GF.
>>58399511Game Freak has been worried about Pokemon being their only source of income. They actively prioritized Project Gear over 3DS Pokemon development. Ever since the GBA days, they've tried to branch out and make new IP. At that same time, Nintendo went behind Game Freak's back and poached Enix devs to develop Pokemon games for the Gamecube, as a way to boost the Gamecube's library. That betrayal is why Game Freak distances itself from the Gamecube duology, and doesn't count them among the mainline games. In the past, we saw Nintendo iconography in Pokemon games, like the N64 cup in Stadium. TPC put a stop to that, to minimize the perception that Pokemon=Nintendo. They didn't want Nintendo to encroach. Even though GF has the most control, Nintendo projected an image of control. GF are very cautious about outsiders having too much power. They'd rather bring Ilca in house, and form a whole new internal division with Pokemon Works, than partner with Square or Genius. They need to project the image that GF is important, and the games can't exist without them at the helm.
>>58399654they should consider making themselves indispensable then, instead of churning out absolute fucking garbage over and over
Square Enix makes good games, that's the main difference.>b-butI know. SE sucks a lot compared to SquareSoft, and yet it's miles better than GF.
>>58399664If oush comes to shove, without GF permission, Nintendo by itself cannot do any new games
>>58399664If they could do that, they wouldn't be so insecure in the first place.
>>58399671And it makes me mad knowing that they actually thought about that possibility and GF just said "No. Look at our good games"
>>58399664Why improve if the games still sell a guaranteed 15 million copies minimum every single goddamn time, something most franchises would literally kill for?
>>58399685if some freak accident caused GF to disappear entirely tomorrow, and the rights to pokemon reverted to nintendo, the quality of the games would significantly improve, there is zero doubt in my mind on that point after this leak
>>58399664The thing is, Game Freak doesn't have to publish Pokemon on a Nintendo system. They could move it to Playstation. Nintendo knows this, which is why they placate GF. They plan their holiday lineup and hardware cadence around Game Freak's plans, meanwhile GF has full freedom to delay the game, up to a point. Once merch deals are inked they're mostly locked in, that's why we got BDSP, because PLA got delayed again and they needed a Sinnoh game to launch alongside locked-in Sinnoh merch.
>>58399713>They could move it to Playstation.Anon Nintendo partially owns the trademark and has exclusive publishing rights. Do you really think they wouldn't clamp down on that shit the second the series blew up in Japan way back in the 90s?
>>58399713i doubt this is true. GF only has 1/3 rights to the franchise, they would almost certainly have to convince TPC to go along with them on that, and TPC has no reason to do something so suicidal
imagine FF x POKEMON
>>58399708personally i would be embarrassed to continually put out garbage and rely on the hard work of a sister company keeping the brand quality alive to sell my games
>>58399713>Game Freak doesn't have to publish Pokemon on a Nintendo system. They could move it to Playstation.Nintendo owns an equally big share of the Pokemon Company as Game Freak does, so unless they come to an agreement, that ain't ever happenin'.
>>58399731>>58399730The common knowledge about the rights being 33% split is misleading. TPC is split three ways, but Game Freak is in the drivers seat. Nintendo doesn't have perpetual publishing rights, and they don't publish the games in Japan.
>>58399713Nintendo has way more power over pokemon than many realize, gf is overprotective of their mainline games because it's the only thing they have, I bet nintendo has aproached them with making pokemon first party and absorbing gf's staff.In the end there is some things that would impact the image of pokemon if gf's and the developing chain disappeared under nintendo, pokemon designs and music could be affected for example, the lore might also completely break down if the old GF staff doesn't transmit and "groom" new staff. Despite the shit they get GF has a vision and that vision is kinda what makes pokemon charm i think.
>>58399788if i were nintendo i would happily play chicken with them on this. publish your game exclusively on the ps6, let's see how it performs
>>58399511What is this saying?
>>58399511>THEY OUTSOURCE TOO MUCH They aren't saying this. They are saying outsourcing isn't as easy as it was years ago
>>58399818tl;dr big games are expensive to make and expensive games are a risk
>>58399823yeah, it's a little bit splitting hairs, but it's less "we do this too much" than "we will need to do this less in the future"it's a retarded sentiment anyway
>>58399511>Nintendo manages to make successful outsourced projects with Square, ASW, Bamco, and other game studios>only real failure was Metroid Prime 4, and even then, they managed to fix it against all odds>Game Freak outsources a single project to a CGI company that never made a full game in its life>it fails and suddenly, they don't want to outsource anymoreLike pottery.
>>58399818here, a chatgpt translation so we're all generally on the same page
>>58399816PS was just an example. I don't think that platform is fit for Pokemon.TPC sidestepped Nintendo's deal with DeNA to partner with Niantic. Pokemon Go was a huge source of revenue, at a time when Nintendo was at their lowest. TCG Pocket was the brand's biggest money maker this past year. Champions is releasing on both Switch and mobile. GF and Creatures are far more aligned with each other than they are with Nintendo. Nintendo's role as a trademark holder and publisher is far less significant than GF and Creatures' collective role. Nintendo doesn't have leverage. That's why they placate GF. In 2002, Nintendo flexed their control with the Genius deal, but in a post-Go world, GF an Creatures not only have big-number-66% stake in TPC, but they have real bargaining power and control.
>>58399734That's FF10-2
>>58399902none of that changes my opinion. go for it GF, publish your mainline game on whatever you like, see how it does without the nintendo corporate machine pushing it
>>58399902Nah, thanks to Nippon Honor Code both gamefreak and creatures are stuck to licking big N's boots because of their history, also why entire japanese economy is in shambles
>>58399925I don't disagree that GF would be silly to leave Nintendo. Both parties know they're best for each other. You can have good partnerships, but also have bargaining power. That's just business. Pokemon is a cutthroat brand, that's part of the reason they release sub-par products. They care about money and momentum, not about having some picture perfect launch. They stopped caring about quality and Famitsu scores when BW underperformed.
>>58399685The Pokemon Company is jointly owned by Nintendo, Creatures, and Game Freak. The thing is, Creatures is basically just a shell company that controlled by Nintendo. Furthermore, the trademarks, the actually important part of the IP are all in Nintendo's name. Pokemon IS Nintendo, and Game Freak are the lazy retards trying to claim "no we're still here, we're still relevant."https://youtu.be/jfSKAvbAUUk
>>58399972in what world does nintendo benefit from having game freak in the picture?
>>58399972nintendo does care about the perception of quality, though. not necessarily that their games will have the graphics of the other platforms, but that they'll run well. GF continually mars that reputation with every new release, so i imagine it is a sticking point between them
>>58399997Much like Intelligent Systems and HAL, Nintendo benefits when the actual development is "technically" done by someone else. They get to reap the profit, and they have a shield to throw up if something goes bad.>oh we (Nintendo) don't develop the game, only publish it, it's the other guy's fault it's badAlso, sort of related to this, Nintendo technically has really high salaries and good benefits compared to most developers. The thing is they run a really lean ship in terms of number of employees. If they had to bring all these second party devs in house, it would increase their development costs. It's their way of having their cake and eating it too. They can advertise the best benefits, but that's because they're actually outsourcing a lot of development.
>>58400050would you rather have some of the money from the product sales, or ALL of the money?
>>58399997Because GF drives the Pokemon machine, and Pokemon is the strongest system seller for Nintendo handhelds.
>>58400069and nintendo has no partners it works with who could drive that machine more competently
>>58400069>>58400075see >>58400068
>>58399999Nintendo seal of quality was dropped for a reason. If Nintendo was so concerned with the quality, they could provide GF with permanent staff. They own Monolith, Xenoblade sales don't move the needle. They could install Monolith at Pokemon Works. Make them an internal Pokemon team.They dictated Retro make Prime 4. They can do the same for Mono. But for Nintendo, IP is king. It's more important to let Mono do their own thing, and maintain Xenoblade, than have that brand go dormant and homeless.
>>58400083i mean, i am in favor of deleting GF from the face of the planet, but the question really isn't that simple. companies have things they specialize in, and reaching outside your wheelhouse is usually more painful than it's really worth. nintendo could probably integrate pokemon development, but there are plenty of examples even in vidya where vertical integration was a huge fuckup. look at all the studios microsoft bought
>>58400115i think one thing these leaks have demonstrated is that nintendo cannot, in fact, install monolith at pokemon, even if they wanted to. GF is satisfied with their own work and has the power to say fuck off
>>58400075Nintendo doesn't have that say. That's up to GF and Creatures. Even if they could, they wouldn't, because the revenue from a single game doesn't outweigh the damage to their partnership with GF and Creatures. Nintendo isn't in control of Pokemon.
>>58400121bdsp is a unity game, shit is not That Hard to make
>>58400139sure, i don't disagree, but if your answer to, "how does nintendo benefit from GF?" is just "well, they are legally bound to work with them if they want to sell this profitable franchise", i think it's fair to say that nintendo does not benefit from GF. they're beholden to them, but they would definitely benefit from GF getting choked out and replaced by almost anyone else
>>58400143yeah, i'm not disagreeing with your overall point, just the argument you're making to get there. every company would like to own every profitable thing, but that's not a great motive for actually buying every profitable thing
>>58399971...? BlackRock has its nose everywhere, even Nintendo
>>58400174Nintendo benefits from Pokemon, and Pokemon is shackled to GF. The way TPC is structured was meant to benefit Pokemon and allow it to be autonomous. It's no coincidence that many of the top brass at Nintendo climbed the ladder from Pokemon. Even when GF/Creatures and Nintendo butt heads, Pokemon still has its tentacles deep within Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't have that reach inside Pokemon.
>>58400246none of that makes it sound like nintendo benefits from gamefreak
>>58400259If Nintendo wasn't headed up by former Pokemon staff, and if TPC was structured in a way that gave Nintendo more power, then yes. I'm sure Nintendo would prefer to hand the series off to Square or Bandai. GF would never renegotiate the terms, which Nintendo benefits from GF because GF holds the keys to those sweet pokedollars.
>>58400292yes. to clarify, your point is that nintendo benefits from gf because they give access to pokemon. my argument is that GF are rent seekers, and that nothing about pokemon requires GF other than the legal technicality of their ownership
>>58399753You make a machine that pumps out dogshit games and rewards you with millions and lets see you say that again.
>>58400344i would hardly be the first
>>58399654>Game Freak has been worried about Pokemon being their only source of income.>They actively prioritized...You're wrong but I can explain.Game Freak isn't "worried" about anything and every higher-up with voting power is drowing in money.I work in venture capital sphere shit.Every sizable media company does what Game Freak is doing here.The reasons publically given for this behaviour (usually "we want to broaden our scope and have more IP or tech") differ from the real, private line of reasoning.90% of the time, this behaviour is done to siphon a specific investor's money while intentially keeping that specific investor far away from the real cash cow IP that they would taint/ruin.For example, Big Jappy Cashbucks kind of knows what Pokémon is and wants to make a $200 million investment in Game Freak, but in exchange wants some creative or other say in the future direction of Pokémon.Game Freak's VERY logical response is to say "let us tell you about this exciting alternate project we have that you can fund."Happens all the time - they aren't stupid or scared - when a project like Little Town Hero fails spectacularly it 100% isn't on Game Freak's dime.
>>58399890>it fails and suddenly, they don't want to outsource anymoreBut it didn't fail. Despite the lack of quality it sold over 15 million units. It actually is only 10k copies short of being the best selling remake in the franchise. Second to LGPE. The only issue with the game is it had no legs. It made all of its sales in the first year and then dropped hard. I think the issue here is that Gamefreak likely finds it difficult to manage outsourced projects and align them with their in-house projects. When Gamefreak started outsourcing and branching out to other developers regularly the games became a much less cohesive experience. They likely want to just build and grow their inhouse teams so everything is happening directly in their line of sight.
>>58400477Pokémon fans and gamers in general are just going to speculate with what info they have, which is usually only shitty games and PR statements.Same happens with Hollywood, and it is very difficult for these children and manchildren to parse that some failed media releases are actually wildly successful finanical moves behind closed doors.
>>58400477Teraleak documents paint a clear picture that GF was deeply worried about the company post-Pokemania, and that their future was tied to Advanced selling wellYou're wrong, but I can explain
>>58399654Nigga, GF completely absorbed GS and denied their proposal of full blown main game for consoles.Due how Pokemon IP is setup GF is sole developer of main games, neither Nintendo or creatures can't do anything about it.
>>58399654So Nintendo is the reason why we were getting good Pokemon games that werent made by GF? Nintendo has been the good guy the whole?
>>58401419>Monolith soft go from corridor RPGs with bunch of cutscenes to open world experts>Mercury stream make excellent metroid games under their managementGuess.
>>58401419they're not Good exactly, but they definitely care about quality more than gamefreak does
>>58401419Nintendo can be evil overlords but they want their games to be good.
>>58400121We have two examples of non Pokemon devs making Pokemon games, The GC games and BDSP. The Gamecube games had less GF involvement and they were wild successes, and fondly remembered. BDSP had very rigid control by GF and they turned out bad. If we expand out to non rpg Pokemon games, basically every game that uses the Pokemon IP at the very least seems to have effort and care put into it. There are dozens of developers that even if they don't have GF's "expertise" would know to ask for help in the places they need it and would do their due diligence in everything else. I would bet any amount of money the first mainline Pokemon game made by not-GF would be AT LEAST better than any of the Switch Pokemon games, and maybe even better than the 3DS ones.
>>58401502honestly, i probably wouldn't even include BDSP in the mix when thinking about what non-GF pokemon would look like. they're just remakes, their effectively GF games with a new coat of paint
>>58401450>>58401442>>58401429>Nintendo has been trying to quality control GF this whole timeAt this point, they're not even trying to overpower GF, they're just trying to tell them to learn a fucking lesson and make a good fucking game. GF needs to get dom'd, and they're being way too hard headed and oblivious when other companies take the IP to make better products in front of their faces.
>>58401502>Give Pokémon to Bandai.>Makes Pokken.Just tell them to make the games!
>>58401531Yes that was basically my point; they were so shackled to GF they really didn't have the opportunity to branch out and do their own thing.
Are these leaks finally killing the narrative that poor little Game Freak is just an unwitting victim of TPC/Nintendo/Creatures?
>>58401533Problem is that pokemon brand let them do that shit without any sort of punishment. Any other game would be roasted if released in similar state as then current gen ones.
>>58401551agreed. as i think about it, fan games are probably the best data points to build off of. the GC games are so old now that both mechanically and thematically they'd be out of date. a non-GF game on the switch would probably look more like pokerogue than anything else
>>58401577Nintendo cant publicly shame them, because that would be one of them most stupidest PR moves in existence. And at the end of the day, MONEY. Money is all that matters in the corpo world. No one has any real reason to step in if they're somehow still making billions with the shit they're doing. Nintendo has clearly tried to do things behind their back to try and get them to do better, but as you can see, GF are not having that shit and could not care any less, and Nintendo isn't gonna go beyond doing more because that would hurt them. At least we still get those once in a blue moon games by other devs, sorta.
>>58399923no that's WoFF.
>>58401618It reached a point that even normalfags are pointing that Digimon have better game. Sure pokemon still sells like crack, but Nintendo don't really like half of internet saying that game looks like shit, specially when platform have likes of Xenoblade or other big boy rpgs.Money is good but they also care about quality.
>>58401723Cyber Sleuth was far better than Time Stranger, normalfaggots have no taste as always.
>>58401747I haven't played TS but if this is true what a fucking sad statement since Cyber Sluts was already shit.
>>58401747In what fucking world are náusea blue squares better than a fleshed out world filled to the brim with Digimon History moments?
>>58401747ehhhh, cyber sleuth gets pretty dull in the middle. i've been enjoying TS more so far
>>58401747It fixed lot of gameplay issues and actually give a decent map, story is worse part about it but at least have better pacing.
>>58401812idk if it's just the jrpgs i've been playing lately, but the pacing feels fucking great. so many fucking games have been putting me in cutscenes and dialogues that take fucking forever to sit through
>>58399831>big games are expensiveI thought the whole reason everything they make looks like shit now is because they can save huge costs and coast off of the IP alone
>>58399654Meanwhile almost every pokemon game has a nintendo console in it and in za they even mention that pokemon is a game IN UNIVERSE lmao
>>58399671>Square Enix makes good gamesLmao
>>58401718And it was amazing
