I think infinite Ashnime fucking sucks and getting rid of the character was the right move and anyone who likes Ash is a fucking moron at this point, BUT! This new series is boring as hell, has horrible animation, is completely bone dry, and is failing at making serialization work because they obviously have no plan. A series like BW has its issues but it only ever sets out to be a retarded show for babies. Horizons is actually attempting to create intrigue but failing at every turn, it's basically good for nobody. I dropped it around the timeskip where they gave Roy a shiny Lucario. Actually discussing this show's extremely noticeable downturn in quality is impossible in the anime discussion thread, people in there are extremely touchy and mentally not all there.
Falseflag thread btw
>>58599150The /a/ threads are worse. I like the show but that place feels like talking with bots.
>>58599150>and is failing at making serialization work because they obviously have no plan. They literally admitted that they were writing the series on the fly and even changed and did things based on reactions from social media.No anime in the whole wide world no matter the genre no matter the franchise is gonna turn out well like that.
>>58599171Doing more of what the fans like is an okay move for little things, but if you're altering your entire plot based on social media reactions, you're going to have a shitty show on your hands. Actually watching the first 20 episodes of Horizons is nuts at this point, because so much of their plan has obviously changed since then, it's wasted time.
>>58599171>They literally admitted that they were writing the series on the fly and even changed and did things based on reactions from social media.That was something only written in the early production emails between OLM and Game Freak, there's no indication it's how they're actually making the show. Even the most long-term goals of the show seem reasonably well-planned, such as the Exceed logo showing up on the crates on Spinel's ship the first time they go to Levincia long before the company is introduced and becomes a major faction, or the initial plan for a hero Pokémon for each type known from the tera leak being used now with Terapagos needing to syphon energy from every type and not just those of the six heroes to reach full power.
Switching out Ash was too little too late
>>58599161I'm almost certain there are two real Anos, one bot, and the rest are paid shills.
>>58599209I think a Pokemon show without Ash could do just fine, they should just keep it simple and fun. Horizons has hemorrhaged viewership because it's very much still for babies only, but lacks the fun episodic factor of older outings. It's got very little to do with Ash.>>58599196The series has struggled to decide if Dot is a primary character or not, and two or three times the series has basically slammed the brakes on the plot to waste time for months not accomplishing anything. Liko was 100% the main character of the first few arcs but has since been massively demoted, they are absolutely changing up their plan as they go.
>>58599150Adapt the manga
>>58599223>and two or three times the series has basically slammed the brakes on the plot to waste time for months not accomplishing anythingThis is dictated by it still having to line up with the games' release schedule. ZA got delayed by a year so we got mega evolutions later than likely intended.
>>58599150>dropped it around the timeskipI mean, there's the problem.The long extended treasure arc hunt was stretching thin, but it was a story worth following to find up more about Liko.The post-timeskip "Expose the Truth" arc is about restoring the rep of the secondary characters, whom I barely care about because they were always the supporting characters to RoyLiko. The other problem is, even though they've been smeared as terrorist, it isn't effecting them negatively at all. They get weird stares but they can all hold down a job.
The anime was always boring
>>58599236The adults do not mention they're part of the Rising Volt Tacklers, it's only the kids that are doing it.
>>58599239NTA but the fact stands that the 'RVT are outlaws' plot point is clearly underutilized and hasn't had any impact on the events of the episodes. And I don't blame them! A storyline like that probably gets in the way of just doing normal ass Pokemon episodes. It's just demonstrable proof that Horizons has a bad identity crisis and is trying to do way more than anyone is asking.
>>58599236>t it was a story worth following to find up more about Liko.Why should I or anybody give a dam about a privilege rich girl and her bloodline being more special than anybody?
>>58599225Wish granted.
>>58599150Yet is better than Journeys.
>>58599196>That was something only written in the early production emails between OLM and Game Freak, there's no indication it's how they're actually making the show.Bullshit.Dot rose to prominence because of her unexpected popularity. The explicitly mention that, too, so you saying it was just "early production" is bullshit too.
>>58599161I'm as much of a weeaboo as they come but how they only use the Japanese names for the characters when talking about the series there is beyond cringe.
>>58599223>I think a Pokemon show without Ash could do just fine, they should just keep it simple and fun. Horizons has hemorrhaged viewership because it's very much still for babies only, but lacks the fun episodic factor of older outings. It's got very little to do with Ash.Worldwide formats are a mistake.Horizons is, ultimately, suffering from the same issues that plagued Shitneys and to a lesser extend also SM.
>>58599263I think it has more to do with their eventual decision to give her Quaxly during production (while it initially was supposed to be shared between Liko and Roy) and to keep the starters more or less evenly relevant. She got popular as she started to get more prominent.>>58599265There's a schizo who derails the threads as soon as anyone tries not pretending they're a secondary and actually uses English names for Pokémon and game characters. Feels like a bot that goes off at any mention of those.
>>58599262How, exactly? I'm not even saying Journeys is good. Journeys is simple as fuck and was able to cram tons and tons of episodic premises in. If you didn't like one show, the next would be something completely different. Horizons has been the same shitty flavor of "I sure hope we'll solve this mystery soon!" for three years and all of the most memorable outings are completely divorced from the main story, like Cap's backstory or Liko vs Roy. You can turn on an episode of Journeys and it'll just be>oh they're in Hoenn fucking around with Ludicolo, coolwhereas the average episode of Horizons is more like>right, this was when they were standing around in Kitakami talking about Lucius
>>58599262Being better than Journeys is nothing to be proud. Is the bare minimum that you can do without any effort. Bar is below hell.>>58599272What I dislike the most about Horizons is that it feels like nothing matters.Like, Friede's dead. Everyone's le sad and depressed. How does everyone move on with their lives? How is everyone affected in the long-run? Whoops, nevermind, four episodes later then Friede sends a secret message.What was the fucking point of the drama around that then? Things on Horizon don't have any time to sink in before we move on to a new shiny thing.Everything is super duper big and important but feels like it doesn't matter at all. The pacing is totally wack.And I hate to be a powerlevelnigger, but the powerlevels on Horizons are horrible and always take me out of it. Though to be fair that's just a continuation of Journeys, same as Legendaries being gigajobbers.
>>58599262>the wet turd's better than the dry turdShit's still shit at the end of the day, sweetie.
>>58599150So you supposedly stopped watching and now you're here in /vp/ ranting about HZ and other people who watch it...why exactly? Are you looking for people to commiserate with? Also, I love the good old classic "everyone who disagrees with my opinion is a bot and a paid shill" argument, never gets old.
>>58599327No one cares, Fagmon. Get a job instead of getting about a kids show that doesn't cater to you.
>>58599327To be fair, Pokemon's never really had competent law enforcement in the first place. First games literally have negligent guards who let an 11 year old into a city that's basically under lockdown because the biggest yakuza clan fucking took it over, just because he brought them a bottle of water.
>>58599150So, basically....Ash won.
>>58599327>Journey had PWC and Master Tournament to look forward too.And it was the biggest piece of shit in the entire trashnime.
>>58599327Journeys, much like SM before it, was at it's best when it was focusing on non-battle stuff. The problem with that is, you know, most people want to watch cool battles.
>>58599349You're wasting your time on a lolcow.
>>58599351To think, none of these schizos would be our problem if it wasn't for ONE (1) GUY who had highest level control of operations and kept insisting every single fucking time that "No, we HAVE to keep Ash" every single fucking time everyone else was collectively ready to dropkick him into the nearest ditch, starting with Johto's end.Hope that asshole's happy with the den of depravity he's created.
>>58599358>It was still something worth looking forward too.All it did was waste and take a big fat shit on a once in a lifetime concept.>If Ash just defeated Alain on hyper class while Leon curbstomp Tobius on Master Tournament than it would have remove most of the complaint.You're retarded and delusional.
>>58599370>>58599376Please stop arguing with the schizo lolcow who will never give up on his personal beliefs, no matter how hard you try to debate and debunk him. The only option for people like him is suicide.
Tournaments were the lifeblood of Pokemon
>>58599392Actually they were an afterthought which is why they always had to bullshit increasingly contrived ways for Ash to lose before resetting him and sending him to the next region. Leagues were anti-storytelling where the endless commercial nature of the show came through most clearly.
>>58599338Correct.Mistyfags lost, Serenafags lost, Gohfags (oxymoron) lost, all other fags lost.Ash has always had his one true partner with him since episode 1, the one he's always cared about more than anyone else in the world, the cornerstone of his sheer love of Pokemon as a whole that has never faltered, no matter how much they changed or bastardized or regressed him as a character.There was never any other doubt that it was HIS trophy.
>>58599150>Actually discussing this show's extremely noticeable downturn in quality is impossible in the anime discussion thread, people in there are extremely touchy and mentally not all there.>Hop into the thread archives>People were responsive to people talking about the anime without it into genwarring faggotry>85% of the questions, whether good or bad, got replies>Objective recommendations whenever someone asked for a input on it, mostly being "Give the premiere a go", "No one's forcing you">They produce their own content from the episodes which is a minority>Discussions of posters were dropped since they only attracted bans and echo chambers>The only notable hiccup is one poster reminding anons to not engage with a lolcow who had a track record of getting anons banned for months for agreeing with his fanfictions to the point of causing a notable traffic drop out of spite so that's somewhat understandable>It's been like that for over nearly a year nowAre you serious or just not genuine about others? Like the only people I've seen getting extremely touchy recently there were a few who told a Likofag to shut up talking about ZA (Who wasn't even posting about it for over an hour) who was actually playing the game to see what can be turned into an episode.If anything when I scroll back through b4k, the last six months of the general were some of the most tame discussions about the anime I've ever seen. The responses were often more short but got to the point instead of being a word salad, shitposts were tame at best and even then were accustomed or joined in good laughter.>Inb4 they just post images and make incest jokesEvery general has a set of shitposts like the latter, you're not gonna get a squeak clean thread anywhere. But somehow amidst all of the mess and shitshows in the last years, that general became more tame.If you want to give people shit for it, do it with proof like the archives but give credit where it's actually due.
>>58599327Spinel was fun when he was memed as a rapist.
>>58599171>reactions from social mediaThey should make more fanservice episodes of Liko then. Those are always the best ones.
>>58599408Nigger that thread is just constant meaningless spam for 6 days a week, I have no fucking clue why it even exists outside of airing day. It's nothing but shitty memes and reposts of old fanart.
>>58599487>First post of the current thread has a TQ with chain replies>People talk about the episodesIdk man. Feels petty to complain about a minor issue in a thread that YOU could change by being the change you want to see. And the amount of new art outweighs the old one. I do enjoy that the new ones get directly sourced now, no more annoying having asking to ask for one without getting an answer.
>>58599562>Yet it baited people despite being terrible writingLike arguing against a wall. God you're retarded.
I just want a new GOOD show. No Ash, definitely no liko.
>>58599150> is failing at making serialization work because they obviously have no planYou very clearly don't watch the show.> it's basically good for nobodyIts good for reasonable people.>>58599154Yeah, at least he tried more than most.
>>58599573Won't ever happen so long as Pokemon is concerned with creating a commercial for toys that can appeal to the lowest common denominator. That's the real crux of why none of these animations ever succeed, they're made with money in mind first and foremost, not passion or a desire to tell a story that can only be told through the world and setting of Pokemon.
>>58599245>RVT are outlaws' plot point Because its not a plot point, they care about taking Spinel down, not about their reputation.
>>58599150The biggest problem with the new anime series is that its main cast of characters are boring and unlikable and take all the focus. Traditionally, the Ashnime pairs the unique protagonist with pre-existing characters that we meet in the games, thus giving them depth.The new anime, though? It thinks wasting screen time on four donut steels is reasonable. They were already pushing it with two protagonist because they have that little faith in Liko, and now we have four shitstains to waste our time with.Also, the Meowscarada dickriding is annoying.
Is this pebble really supposed to be an Everstone that Crocalor is holding unknowingly? It would be lame if they didn't evolve it, but I guess it's just an excuse for it not to happen during the timeskip and they'll bring it up sooner or later.
>>58599625Kidney stone
>>58599625They don’t want to waste the literal peanuts they have left for the budget on animating Skeledirge, that’s why they made Crocalor eat the everstone.
Ashnime was going down the gutter but SHITrizon somehow got even lower. It's so shit they refuse adding popilar characters like Arven or Kieran as to not ruin them
>>58599606>depthSince when does that matter?>Meowscarada dickriding is annoying.It has barely done shit recently.
>>58599150This looks so fucking shit
>>58599161This board isn’t any different. Maybe not for the anime but almost anything pertaining the to the games outside of a general feels like a thread made by bots.
>>58599625>Egg on it's head will never hatch into the little fire birdMiscarriage arc incoming
>>58599150I hate OLM
>>58599504>it's your fault anime threads suck because you don't post anything there to counteract my spamNigga really?
>>58599958nopeand I'm happy for it
>>58599625skeledirge is uglyi hope it never evolves
>>58599967Roy's whole deal is wanting to become strong enough to be deemed worthy by fug to become its trainer. They never tried to pretend he doesn't want to evolve Fuecoco all the way or that Fuecoco/Crocalor himself doesn't want to. He already can't mega evolve and it's been shown time and time again it's not yet strong enough to take the six heroes on even with terastalization. It's either going to evolve or it will get overshadowed by Roy's shiny mega shillmon.
>>58599961why
>>58599953Bro, you're complaining about 1/5th of a thread that is bothering you. Also complaining about posts just attracts more of it for your annoyance.
>>58599265This. They also throw a fit if you use the English names for the Pokemon. It's like they're a cult where you must act like one of them.
>>58600001It's just one sperg who can be ignored.
>>58600001The best part is that you can't even use Ult for the new guy like the fansubs, you have to write Uruto because it's what their discord translator who spams the thread with every single tweet from the official anime twitter uses.
>>58600005Adamant?
>>58599991I don't give a shit about your dumb thread, I'm just laughing at your logic.
>>58599150Ashnime wasn't bad. DP and XY were great and SM was alright.
>>58600015Nta but just make the gentleman aware of the spam? You whine more about a thread because of a problem that is within the realms of getting it sorted out. Or do you even discuss the anime there at all? If the latter is no then why are you bothered by a general you don't partake in?
>>58599647>Since when does that matter?obedient little slop eater content with watching unlikable characters meander pointlessly for 20 minutes>latelybecause I haven’t watched in a while, but that doesn’t detract from my point
>>58600028>anon complains about your shitty thread being full of spam>well uh it's your fault for not posting more good posts, not our fault for spamming
>>586000371/5th is not full of spam. What even qualifies as spam to you? And why do you ignore the part where you could just use the function to the right of a post to get it nuked? I don't use /padt/ and only hopped in because the metafaggotry reminded me of why /ptsd/ got nuked because all you faggots did near was bitch and whine about others than actually discussing the Ashnime. If you hate something and want it to stop then do something about it.
>>58599267>Worldwide formats are a mistakeThe Worldwide format would have been fine if they kept the cast on foot. Journeys fucked up by having Vermillion being the hub. MPM corrected this by having them on foot and on the move again.
>>58600005Isn't his name Uruto though? It's what both Serebii and Bulbapedo use.
>>58600049The issue with /ptsd/ is that it was composed of the people who were booted out of /padt/ years ago during the pasta war. They were even rehashing the long-dead subbing war.
>>58599150It's clearly not perfect, and many anime are better than Pokémon Horizons. However, Horizons remains more interesting and better than Ashnime.
>>58599150>Actually discussing this show's extremely noticeable downturn in quality is impossible in the anime discussion thread, people in there are extremely touchy and mentally not all thereMany of them are fans who have wanted Ash gone for years and have argued that removing him would making the show much better. The truth is Horizons isn't much better. Those proving Ash being there or not wasn't really the main problem (the writing is). But these guys would never admit they were wrong. So they are overally defensive about every criticism the show gets.
>>58600063>pasta war
>>58600162Yes, know 2 IRL.It's fun to tease them about it, they always made wild claims about ash keeping the show to kiddie friendly and a new protagonist like red would be mature like the manga.It's hard to type that sentence without laughing.>>58600172Yes, were do you think we are?
>>58600191Yup. They were delusional. You can dump Ash, but the anime's genre is never going to change.
>>58600127How do you cope with your pitiful existence as a disingenuous seething liar?
>>58600292If a different opinion from yours is too difficult for you to hear, what are you doing on this site?
>>58599150Been a while since I last saw an anime falseflag thread
>>58599263No, it was because someone started seething about kids not liking her and thinking she was an annoying neet
>>58600036>ashfag calling anyone else obedient little slop eater>>58600162>The truth is Horizons isn't much better. Having a show with a premise it actually follows alone makes it eons better than the ashnime.It being good is an extra topping.>the writing isAnon, sorry to be the one to tell you this, but Ash is a fictional character, he doesn't exist outside writing.>So they are overally defensive about every criticism the show gets.You've been butthurt since pokespe got scans.
>>58600162I dropped the TrAshnime midway through the Orange Islands as a kid and never came back until Horizons.Horizons is actually watchable. TrAsh never was.
>>58600036>obedient little slop eater content with watching unlikable characters meander pointlessly for 20 minutesYou watched one of the most unlikeable anime characters ever meander pointlessly for 26 years, and you still defend it.
>>58599223>Liko was 100% the main character of the first few arcs but has since been massively demotedWhat makes you say that?It's not as if anyother character is more prominent then her.
>>58599150My interest in Horizons dropped to the floor when I saw the first poster and it was full of OCs with mons from previous generations, obviously including PIKACHU AND CHARIZARD FROM KANTOOO
>>58600544>What makes you say that?Trying to make up a criticism without revealing he's an ashfag.
ash should've been retired in gen 3
>>58600577Nah, Johto was the right time for to go. Gen 3 was the perfect time for a clean start. Hoenn was the first region not to be connect to Kanto in anyway.
>three years>Still seething this hard about Ash>Even though three years should have been enough to get rid of him in their minds >Because to this day Floprizons is still a flop
>>58600551Anon, you do realize that Ash himself is an OC too? He's an anime-original creation whose existence devolved into pandering to manchildren like yourself by giving him all the fanservice Pokemon, having everyone idolize him, and having him literally defeat every single Champion so he could be dubbed the strongest trainer in the world. Ash is the worst kind of Mary Sue, I just wish Ashfags weren't too pussy to admit it.
>>58600591>>58599150
>>58600591>Even though three years should have been enough to get rid of him in their mindsWell, anon, it's kinda hard to get rid of him when Ashfags are mentally unstable freaks who are unable to cope with the fact that he's gone forever.
>>58600642What Ashfags? Famon isn't even here, fuck, people barely talk about him nowadays and reddit dogpiles anyone that dares to do that. Even in this particular thread almost nobody is defending him just baiting the obvious snowflakes getting mad over some imaginary war
>>58600653Ashfags largely fucked off after MPM. I don't know why people pretend that they are still a thing here.
>>58599150They should've went ahead and adapted adventures instead. Adventures strikes a nice balance of intrigue and absurdity to keep kids and kid minded audiences entertaining journeys is just bland all around
>>58600642>who are unable to cope with the fact that he's gone forever.Lets not change history. They were already unstable freaks prior to Horizon.>>58600653>What Ashfags? You or the guy who made the OP for instance.>le faminoretarded ashfag boogeyman. No one outside /padt/ knew who he was, if anyone, prior to horizon>>58600672damn, you got to the nuclear option there.
>>58599399Yuyama will allways be the goat for keeping the idea of Shudo of making Ash and Pikachu's bond the main thing of the anime until the very end.
>>58601270*YayimaFuck why so similar names? For a second I was prasing Amourshipers god
>>58600598>>Ash is the worst kind of Mary SueOnly valid for his kalos interpretation
>>58600598Not really, he's just an alternate interpretation of Red, who canonically doesn't exist in the Ashnime continuity because Ash IS his world's Red.
>>58600697OP here. How are you coming to the conclusion that I give a fuck about Ash in any way? Please, go ahead. This is where Horizonsfags get their bad rep from btw
>>58601870You can rant about allegedly hating Ash all you want but if you act the same as an ashfag you end up exposing yourself all the same.>b-but we're not ashfags!!Sure, you all just happened to have no reading comprehension, no non-pokemon media experience and somehow, while being old enough to post, weren't aware of the fact the ashnime airing for more than 20 years prior to horizon. This is more reasonable than thinking you're ashfags acting the same as you've been since pokespe got scans.
>>58600162You know both things can be true, right?The writing is indeed shit, but having to deal with the baggage of 20 years of Ash makes the already shit writing even shittier.
>>58599257Can't wait for red to play with his balls on screen.
>>58599399Yeah Brock really was the only one for ash....
>>58602028Nah, you're a fucking lunatic and you should shut up. Someone not liking Horizons doesn't mean they're an Ash fan. Horizons has plenty of built-in issues for a person to dislike without it being about anything else. Or are you really implying it's a flawless program and there are no real reasons to criticize it?Again, this is exactly why Horizonsfags are no different from Ashfags, not even a little bit. Pure schizophrenia
>>58602333>Someone not liking Horizons doesn't mean they're an Ash fanNever said otherwise.>are you really implying it's a flawless program and there are no real reasons to criticize it?Not at all. Only someone who can't read would infer that. Guess what big group is known for being unable to read?>this is exactly why Horizonsfags are no different from Ashfags, not even a little bit.The fact that you think its Horizonfags vs Ashfags is also a redflag.And. anyways, horizonfags haven't spent 20+ years supporting the worst product of the entertainment industry.
>>58599150The anime should have been like the games and Pokespe manga where each season was its own story and with renewed cast at the start of the season with some connections here and there but ultimately stood on its own.
>>58600653Ashfags and Ash live in their head rent free.
>>58600653>isn't even hereHe was before he got nuked.
I’ve only seen random screenshots and clips from this show but why are half the mons shiny
To make the characters super special even more.
>>58599225Which one?
>>58604235Zygarde and Rayquaza: to make sure nobody thinks they're the ones that appeared in the Ashnime.Lucario: might as well shill the shillmon some more.
>>58599150I think it's safe to they only planned out the Anime for the 1st season and that's it.
Believe in DotLiko.
>>58599150No one cares about the anime
>>58602223His cooking skills are out of this world
Suppose DP Ash and Dawn replace Liko and Roy. Terapagos is not a family heirloom but a pendant that Dawn buys or wins in a competition, which leads to her being targeted by the Explorers, and Ash comes to defend her. Suppose the RVT are just treasure hunters who love to travel the world for treasure, and that's why they assist Ash and Dawn. Suppose Dawn and Dot have extrovert-introvert chemistry like Bocchi and Kita, where Dot struggles with Dawn's extroverted aura. While Ash and Dot often argue due to their differing intellects. Suppose there was no Lucius, and the six ancient heroes are wild Pokémon that helped AZ seal Rakura 2000 years ago. Suppose Gibeon is an ordinary rich guy with no Zygarde who believes Rakura holds technology to bring people from various points in time, and he intends to bring his daughter back right before she is killed in an accident. Suppose Rakua was a civilization ruled by an arrogant king with a racial superiority complex who wanted to unite all regions under his control and build a time machine to create an army of Paradox Pokémon using Terapagos as an energy source, until its power gets corrupted, leading to Rakulium that infects the Paradox Pokémon into destroying Rakua before they are sealed. Suppose Spinel is a descendant of Rakua's royal family who wants to fulfill his ancestors' ambition and informs Gibeon of Rakua's secret to manipulate him.
>>58602333Nobody thinks Horizons is flawless. It's just given more grace because it actually tries to be a real anime. The TrAshnime was mindnumbing drivel made exclusively for literal toddlers and Chris-chan level autists. You would probably think a childless adult who still watches Teletubbies or Blue's Clues is a weirdo, but that's exactly how TrAshfags look to the rest of us when they defend their 26 years of slop and get angry that they weren't given 26 more. Whatever "Horizonfag" boogeyman you're trying to make up does not even come close.
>>58606929>It's just given more grace because it actually tries to be a real anime. The TrAshnime was mindnumbing drivel made exclusively for literal toddlers and Chris-chan level autists.This. You had to be mentally ill to be an adult and stilll watch the Ashnime after such a long time. Horizons is mid, but it's better than whatever the Ashnime did. Simple as.
>>58600162Ash was wanted to be gone because he was the integral part of the slop "formula". When Ash would be gone, the formula would be gone and they'd finally have a newfound chance to make it right this time. Even if the new anime happened to be mid, people who actually cared about good quality artistic values would still be happy because it finally meant that the producers stopped being stuck in the regurgitation of the same puke over and over again; if the new anime did not work, they would have less to lose by killing it off and giving yet another shot. Repeat until you hopefully get proper management and good writing.
>>58606929>It's just given more grace because it actually tries to be a real animeReal anime? What is real anime? A super edgy story about a special snowflake MC fighting forces of evil? That is not real anime; that is just wish fulfillment fantasy.>>58607304>Even if the new anime happened to be mid, people who actually cared about good quality artistic values would still be happyThose people do not care about artistic value; they just want Pokémon to be like "Solo Leveling" with an MC who has the personality of a brick wall, getting everything handed to him while all the side characters are humiliated and suffer to make the MC look better. This is what they consider "real anime," and they consider XY&Z to be "real anime" because it was about Alain getting everything handed to him.Pokémon is a weekly anime; it can't afford the manpower and resources to have Solo Leveling-level animation in every episode. Furthermore, Solo Leveling has a small market, which is why it earned profit, but Pokémon's market is bigger, therefore it won't earn profit from a similar minor fanbase as Solo Leveling. Furthermore, Jin-woo never had to live up to an original protagonist who is a global icon like Ash; it would be like expecting Jin-woo to replace Goku as Dragon Ball's protagonist.
>>58607419>You don't do eitherI do which is why I never call XY&Z as real anime. Real Anime is something that relief stress, something that makes you look forward to the next episode, something that makes you feel happy. Like the Original Pokemon anime, Baka & Test , Sgt Keroro, Gintama, Grand Blue, Dragonball etc etc.
>>58607490>Which XY&Z is a partOriginal series means Indigo to johto series. >Being able to google more anime names wont help.Why do I have google names of my favorite anime?
>>58607515>Original series means Indigo to johto series. Sorry, the ashnime is a single thing.Your tribalism is irrelevant to reasonable people.>Why do I have google names of my favorite anime?Because you´re larping as those being your favorite anime would imply you can watch something that isn't the ashnime
>>58606929>Nobody thinks Horizons is flawless. It's just given more grace because it actually tries to be a real anime.Basically my opinion. Horizons lacks exciting battles and its handling of non-starters is horrible. But it's trying to make every episode matter in some way and generally does a good job of avoiding mindless filler content in JN. And it probably has the most interesting villains, even if I think Lucius/Gibeon were mishandled. I also like how Horizons incorporates gym leaders into the plot without the characters needing a gym quest to battle them.Also they really need to go back to having a singular protagonist instead of juggling multiple main characters at once.My hope is that the next anime series can find a balance between Horizons storytelling and the focus on battles and action.
>>58607726Onyx and Sango actually want to achieve their goals each time they appear.
>>58607726What a lazy argument, lol. You could make this argument for any villainous group in Pokemon anime/games, if the cops did their job and just arrested the bad guys, the plot wouldn't happen. You fucking moron.
>>58607400>Real anime? What is real anime?Real anime actually does something with its time. The Ashnime only existed for parents to turn on so their kids would shut up for 20 minutes. The actual content was almost nonexistent, which is why out of 26 years of weekly episodes, the only things anyone still talks about are either Ash jobbing in the league for the millionth time or the two Special Olympics trophies he was gifted at the end.
>>58608237>You mean wish fulfillment, that what your 'real anime"?When an anime actually does something, maybe it has a gripping plot. Or it's an episodic series with a lot of creative scenarios for tis characters. Or it has artistic merit in how it presents a specific setting, mood, or feeling.None of this can be said about the TrAshnime. It was basically 26 years of dead air outside of the small handful of league-related episodes that anyone still talks about. The other hundreds of episodes where TrAsh and his orbiters wandered around aimlessly in the woods made no cultural or artistic impact and were forgotten five minutes after they aired. The TrAshnime was nothing but disposable slop nontent and a preview of what anime's going to look like when it's all generated by AI.
>>58608343>When an anime actually does something, maybe it has a gripping plot. Or it's an episodic series with a lot of creative scenarios for tis characters. Or it has artistic merit in how it presents a specific setting, mood, or feelingPlease, do you think plot ever meant anything in anime? It doesn't or else many many anime would never became popular. The only thing matters are characters and the premise which Ashnime had. Pokémon from the start was a slice of life entirely set on Ash's journey. A real anime is something and engaging to watch which Ashnime was until XY&Z happened which you keep calling real anime.
>hurr anime doesn't need a plot just cool characters I can self-insert into like a childAshfags are genuinely on another level of autism, wow
I think Horizons gets a little more grace than it deserves for "trying to have a plot", which means very little when the plot isn't good and is more focused on maguffins and exposition instead of character relationships and personal goals. "At least it has a plot" is the sole shaky defense that people can run for this unentertaining trash.Getting rid of Ash was a good idea and it's the sole reason I decided to watch Horizons. I thought it meant they'd put more effort into production and that they'd make something that feels new, but it's the same shit as before except it doesn't have James and it has mYsTeRiEs. It's an abhorrently boring program to watch on a weekly basis and it's also poorly produced, objectively. /padt/ is basically just brainless spam trying to artificially keep itself alive because there's nothing entertaining or interesting about the show and its very small fanbase is more in love with the idea of Horizons than the flaccid, dying anime they actually watch.
>>58609574>Every iteration of Pokemon is based on a plot no matter how barebones>Anime which has the better capacity to explore these isn't, for some reasonThe more you try to defend this, the more ridiculous it gets.Also>Pokemon was a slice of lifeThat makes a lot more sense actually on why it was such an abysmally boring dogshit.
>>58609827>That makes a lot more sense actually on why it was such an abysmally boringWhile Horizon is painfully boring then the entire Ashnime despite having a plot.>>58609750>anime doesn't need a plot just cool characters I can self-insert into like a childI never said anything about cool characters, just interesting premise and engaging characters. Why do you think something like Rent-A-Girlfriend going on for 400 chapter with season 5 confirmed? It has no plot at all and kept dragging on. Its because of the series's premise and engaging characters. That's why, Kazuya is more engaging than anybody on Pokémon Horizons. People would hate him and call him the most pathetic protagonist but won't stop following his story because most people in real world are as pathetic as him and would simp for a woman like Chizuru even if they has to spend all their money on her.Pokemon shouldn't have lasted 27 years, most kids anime doesn't even last longer than six seasons. Pokémon anime did because it had Ash and TRio's fanbase consistently following their story. That's how long running anime remains long running, it has nothing to do with plot.
>>58609922>interesting premiseThat's a plot you retarded nigger
>>58609963Premise is the foundational concept of a story, while the plot is the sequence of events that unfolds from that concept. For example, Ashnime's premise was Ash's journey thoughtout the pokemon world to become a Pokémon Master and plot is detailed story of how he supposed to reach there.
>>58609778>I think Horizons gets a little more grace than it deserves for "trying to have a plotIt gets way less.If this were a regular franchise you'd have a point, but this is the franchise that had the ashnime for 20+ years.Merely trying to have a plot is already a lot, which should be taken into account when judging it.> it's the same shit as beforeIt absolutely isn't. At all. Even if you don't like it. You saying this is why we can't take you seriously,and we can notice a mile away.
>>58610042> Ashnime's premise was Ash's journey thoughtout the pokemon world to become a Pokémon MasterExcept when it league time and then it magically becomes about ash just exploring the pokemon world so he has to lose to keep that other premise.
>>58610136>>58610140You need to chill out than seriously falseflagging this hard to get a rise out of the second lolcow.
>>58610136>Merely trying to have a plot is already a lot, which should be taken into account when judging it.No. I'm not going to give out points for concepts if said concepts don't culminate in good entertainment. Giving the anime a new beginning is a great idea, and it's for that reason that I'm judging it. They should have come up with something good, with a new artstyle, and with new writers. Instead, it's the Journeys artstyle, shitty cliffhangers to nowhere, and largely the same staff as the terrible Ashnime. If they wanted to start anew they should have had their ducks in a line to make the anime really succeed and find a broader audience. Instead, Horizons has shrunken down to almost no viewership. It's not a useful arm of the franchise as it is. They should dump this disgraceful failure in the trash where it belongs and start over with a new cast and this time don't try to coast on 'concepts'.
>>58610268>No.You deserve 40 of ashnime then. Then again, that's what you actually want.
>>58609922I'm not a Horizonfag, I merely can't stand people defending Ashnime which has basically cemented this "Well, it's Pokemon. Can't expect it to take things that seriously." excuse whenever it was pointed out that the stories GF shit out isn't good and could be (and should be) improved. It set the bar so fucking low that slop was expected, and wanting or expecting any better from "children's media" was delusional. I only wish Horizons well, because it was finally a glimpse of moving past this mentality. Even if it ultimately turned out to be bad again, I'm hoping that maybe when the next gen rolls around, they'll be coming back having learned a few more lessons to put things on the right course.
>>58610278Youre so repetitive and a parody of the statements made, I wouldn't be shocked if you're a bot obsessed with making a mockery of Horizonsfags
>>58610335Repeating truths don't make them a lie.
>>58599161/a/ is the second worse board on this website only beaten by one of its tumerous spin offs
>>58610278You're so repetitive and stupid. If Horizons was any good at all you wouldn't spend 3 years shadowboxing Ashfags in your head.
>>58610365>if this show were good you would accept the retarded criticism
>>58610365I'm convinced that lowcap sperg is just a falseflagger. Those tirades are weirdly absent in the anime general, often aimed at the sake of ignoring everything to make a ridicule of anything said.The fact he's mainly engaging with the ESL lolcow with others on the side is just him being bored and wanting to make a scene.
>>58610375> often aimed at the sake of ignoring everything to make a ridicule of anything said.Anon, "its boring" isn't exactly the most interesting criticism and its not worth engaging with.If you don't want to be seen as an ashfag, just engage in horizon criticism in good faith. It really is that simple.
>>58610383Bro you suck at this shit. Keep up the act and you get flagged like the other moron who got nuked.
least schizo ashfag
>>58610400>>58610394
>>58610383>"its boring" isn't exactly the most interesting criticism and its not worth engaging withLuckily for you there have been tons of specific criticisms ITT, but of course they don't fit within your forced HZ vs Ashnime paradigm so you have to ignore them.
>>58610441quote 3
>>58610454Not spoonfeeding you, retard.
>>58610496Should be easy if there were "tons".
>>58609574>The only thing matters are characters and the premise which Ashnime had.The only memorable characters the TrAshnime had in 26 years were Team Rocket, and even they were blatantly plagiarized from the Doronbo Gang.
>>58599625(Me) Anime merch featuring Skeledirge just popped up and the summary of the episode three episodes from now definitely makes it sound like Crocalor might evolve so that was either really just a pebble or they'll address it and throw it out.
The autist who spends his time stalking Famon is here I see.
>>58599161Worse then Padt? I haven't been there in ages, but last time I was there it felt like it was just 5 posters spamming the board with Liko pics and corny pedo jokes. I can't imagine /a/ would be worse.
>>58610603It makes sense that it evolves in an arc about becoming stronger but its weird it didn't happen in a more climatic moment. I was expecting it in the last fight against the six heroes.
>>58610603>>58610628If it actually evolves and even points out the bit about the stone then shoot me.
>>58610325>I merely can't stand people defending AshnimeAnd I can't stand people who attack Ashnime because it doesn't fit their idealized standard for animation. The Pokémon anime was fine until the DP series; its only flaw was the lack of Ash's progression and original slapstick humor. In fact, XY&Z made things worse when it tried to be a "real anime" because it ignored the two things the Pokémon anime needed: Ash progressing further and the anime regaining its original slapstick humor. XY would have done better if handled like actual Ashnime, with Ash retaining his original personality, Serena being more confident and argumentative like previous lead girls, and Ash actually winning the Kalos League. >>58610140>Except when it league time and then it magically becomes about ash just exploring the pokemon worldBecause the anime was about exploring the Pokémon world, the league is just something for Ash to do. Heck, writers could make an anime where Ash travels to Paldea to find and catch every Titan Pokémon for Professor Oak's research, meets Arven who's also searching for the same Pokémon for Herba Mystica, and Juliana who wants to complete her treasure hunt.>>58610593>The only memorable characters the TrAshnime had in 26 years were Team Rocket, anYa, Vegeta is the most memorable Dragon Ball character because nobody cares about Goku—I said so.
>>58610707>Because the anime was about exploring the Pokémon world Ashnime's premise was Ash's journey thoughtout the pokemon world to become a Pokémon Master
>>58610785And what is a Pokemon Master? Oh wait, the anime never explained it and simply used it as an excuse for Ash to keep exploring the Pokemon World.
>>58610819They did though, they explained during promotion for episode 1000 that it was about befriending all pokemon. Then in MPM they pretended that didnn't happen and Ash "learned" this.Oh, and also that means all the "development" that got ash to beat leon was worthless.
>>58610826It means now Ash can continue being the protagonist as long as Game-freak keep making new pokemon games.
>>58610894Except that when Ash "realized" this was also his last season.
>>58610913Except this was the moment some competent writers felt they are taking too big of a gamble by replacing Ash with completely new OC so they kept his finale open so they could use him again.
>>58611034>writers
I would enjoy it if they made a series where each season is a new character with an interesting but a relatively short story, like poketoons but longer
>>58611102The current series is probably only set to go on until the end of this gen, then it's probably another reboot. That's how it sounded like their approach will be from now on in the teraleak, and how it feels like watching the show itself.
>>58611102So Horizon?
>>58610707>And I can't stand people who attack Ashnime because it doesn't fit their idealized standard for animation.Are you serious? Is that how you look at criticism? You assess a work by weighing the elements it does well and the elements it fails. If good gets outweighted by the bad, you simply call the work shit and tell the author/producer to try again better next time. Ashnime, especially past season 1-2, was the aforementioned shit that never addressed its habit of cutting corners and lazy repetitive writing. The fucking mini-series they released here and there did more justice to the franchise.Unless you admit to being a manchild, you can't use the "it was aimed towards kids" excuse either, because the anime was planned to be a long-running series aimed at Pokemon fans in general. Did they not stop at any point to think, "How can we make this appealing to all demographics, who might be newcomers or long-term fans?"I'll leave you be with your low standards. I hope the time you spent on hundreds of those episodes was worth it man.
>>58611119The anime has to promote Gen 10 as well, the reboot require them to start from Indigo saga again. Not to mention it will be just Ash going back to level 01 again. I have seen the Gen 10 Teraleak and writers can actually use Ash for that. >>58611137>Are you serious? Is that how you look at criticism?Coming from a guy who thinks every criticism of Horizons comes from Ashfags!The Pokémon anime did just fine until the DP series, where Ash kept progressing. The actual problem started when the anime regressed Ash to shill their new racist OC named Trip. XY didn't do anything better; it butchered Ash's original personality to turn him into Prince Charming Ash with still no progression to shill another OC named Alain. The SM series is criticized for its visuals, Alola's poor nature as a region, and the backlash from the Kalos League. The JN series was also ruined because the writers were too obsessed with shoving Goh and Koharu instead of the PWC. At the end, the real problem with Pokemon anime was all the boring uninteresting OC that writers wants to promote over Ash and game characters. >>58611137>Unless you admit to being a manchild, you can't use the "it was aimed towards kids" excuse either, because the anime was planned to be a long-running series aimed at Pokemon fans in general.Wrong, Pokemon anime supposed to end with the Indigo saga and it never meant to be a long running anime. The main reason it run this long was due to Ash, Pikachu and TRio being too popular.
>>58611195>Coming from a guy who thinks every criticism of Horizons comes from Ashfags!Lmao, you completely lost your track. Never did I imply that, nor did I criticise Ashfags for criticising Horizons. I was seeing bothersome problems in Horizons as early as episode 2 myself.
>>58611226Oh really >>58606929 >>58609750
>>58611242I'm NTA retard
>>58611195>OC that writers wants to promote over Ash and game characters.So ash gets a pass despite being an OC?
>>58611250>>58611303You waste your time on Fagmon. Don't bother.
>>58611303Please stop engaging with the schizo. And technically speaking, Ash isn't an OC, he's his universe's equivalent to Red.
>>58611312"Ash AND game characters" means Ash isn't a game character.
>>58611317Because he's the anime-exclusive version of Red, yes.Red doesn't appear in the anime anywhere because Ash is his world's Red. Just like how Gary is the anime's version of Blue.
>>58611321Then Ash would be a video game character. Its not that hard.
>>58611335And he isn't. Because, again, he's the anime-exclusive version of Red.Brock isn't a Pokemon Breeder in the games, nor is he known for being a horndog who can't stop crushing on every girl he sees, but people still consider him "a game character" when talking about his anime counterpart.
>>58611303I said boring uninterest OC I have no problem with TRio , Paul, Duplica and actual characters that are fun .
>>58611363how is Ash interesting?
>>58611371Piss off the lolcow elsewhere.
>>58611374Is he your husband?
Y'all, no matter how you try to spin it, Ash is an OC. Brock, Misty or Gary are anime characters with similarly-looking game counterparts. Ash doesn't have a game counterpart, he's an anime-original creation.
>>58611401So where's Red in the animeverse? Shouldn't he have dismantled Team Rocket so they'd stop being Ash's problem?
>>58611371Ash is more engaging due to not having magic bloodline and not getting everything handed him like other protagonist from similar kids anime. OS-DP Ash wasn't an one-note character, he had multiple character traits that written in a way that all of them feel natural and in-character. Sometime he is super optimistic, sometimes he more level-headed, sometime he is carefree, sometime he is serious, sometime he is dumb and sometimes he smarter than many adults. This kept his character to be more interesting and fun.
>>58611412>Sometime he is super optimistic, sometimes he more level-headed, sometime he is carefree, sometime he is serious, sometime he is dumb and sometimes he smarter than many adults. This is the only aspects of ash you listed and they are very common in media which, you, allegedly know much of.
>Ash is interesting because... he does things sometimesWe are reaching levels of delusion that shouldn't even be possible
>>58611422Please, PLEASE stop engaging with Fagmon. He's literally ignoring that Ash is a special snowflake with aura powers. That's LITERALLY a "magic bloodline".
>Don't bother my bf famino!!
>>58611428Don't forget about Ash Greninja. He's on Gary Stu levels of special snowflake.
>>58611442True, but the frog was retconned, so I wasn't sure whether or not to include it if we're looking at the full picture of Ash's finality.
>>58611422>they are very common in media which, you, allegedly know much of.Not really, not in modern anime. Most protagonist tends to be one-note characters and if they tries to act differently then it feels out of charactersAsh was kind, mature for his age, street smart and empathic but he was also snarky, bratty, smug , boastful , show-off and short tempered. There are clip of him being brutally honest and savage.
>>58611463>Not really, not in modern anime.So, you watched the ashnime from the 90s up to gen 4 in preparation for a lack of "interesting" characters in the 2020s?
>>58611468Current characters are boring unless they are from the game. The fact that writer actually thought Roy being taller , handsome , cool kid that attract girls and defeat Nemona would made him popular proves current writers knows nothing about characterization. This anime is better off with Ash then any of their new OC specially when MPM episode 02 has proven that Ash could revert back to his old self. Just give him companion that makes him behave like his old self.
>>58599397>Leagues were anti-storytelling where the endless commercial nature of the show came through most clearly.And yet, Ash's winning or losing always generated the most conversation even outside the community. For better or worse, people cared about competitions!
>>58611492>Current characters are boring unless they are from the game. We weren't talking about just pokemon.Its almost as if you don't know there are things outside it.>MPM episode 02I thought it stopped being good at DP? How did you get that long?
>>58611498>It doesn't matter if more people dogpile and make fun of stagnation.>At least they cared enough to respondSame energy as the "Nobody cares" replies to a thread that pisses you off. And posting the shitshow that started a downward spiral that is getting handwaved because of the quote and quote win without looking deeper at it isn't the best case example.
>>58611505>We weren't talking about just pokemon.We were talking about Ashnime >I thought it stopped being good at DP? How did you get that long?Because Ash was still in the show.
>>58611549Not really, I said in >>58611422 " very common in media" making the conversation about media in general at that point.Figures you can't read.>Because Ash was still in the show.Ok, so you admit to being stuck to Ash rather than the show's quality.
>>58611442And all the unearned gym badges he was showered with, and the contrived Special Olympics trophies he was handed in his last two seasons to make his mentally ill adult fans stop crying. "Not getting everything handed to him," what a joke.
pokemon tranime is garbage in general because it made for literally retards
>>58599150Horizons should have ended already. It makes no sense that even with an overarching plot and almost no filler episodes it's going to reach around 140 episodes just like anynAshanime season.
>>58611571Then we moved to Ashnime on >>58611468 >Ok, so you admit to being stuck to Ash rather than the show's qualityPlease, majority of people here admits the quality of the current anime is low.
changing protagonsit always will be a flop, ygo is suffering of this the new series flopped hard and cencelled the anime, the new digimon anime already forgotten (even already better than pokemon anime) lol
>>58611630Sounds like Pokemon just needs to give up entirely then, Ash is a dogshit character and has nowhere else to go because he became the world's strongest trainer, unless you want to pull a Dragon Ball Super and now he needs to become the MULTIVERSE'S strongest trainer (but I'm sure shonentards would love that, wouldn't they?)
>>58611611 I said "the ashnime" because its the show you're claiming has an interesting MC. Then I said "the 2020s" instead of just Horizon because its what the ashnime was compared with. Learn to read.>majority of people here admits the quality of the current anime is lowI agree with that but that's not what I asked.
>>58611639It turned out it never was about becoming the stronges trainer though.
anime based in toy and vidoegames are not popular anymore people only watch is shonen kny chainsawman jjk etc..they should just make more shorts, the gardevoir short mogged all the anime
>>58599150>discussing this show's extremely noticeable downturn in quality is impossible in the anime discussion thread, people in there are extremely touchy and mentally not all there.What would you expect from such "adults" that still watch the anime and take it religiously? I mean, I also grew up with the anime, I have precious memories of it, but I also outgrew it at some point.
>>58611666OP is talking about Horizon.
They don't put budget to the anime and not wonder , the anime has been the floppest media of pokemon lol the tcg, games, merchandise sells but the anime never grow they canceled the movies too
>>58611630Yu-Gi-Oh's problems have nothing to do with changing protagonists. Its problem is being chained to a TCG that is now broken beyond repair and unmarketable to new players, but their attempt to work around this with Rush Duels got screeched at and boycotted by the same sweaty autists who ruined the original game. If they had kept Yugi as the protagonist the entire time, they'd still be in the same position now and Yugi would be a much worse off for it as a character.Keeping a static MC for decades doesn't work very well for series like these. They always end up getting flanderized and/or soft-rebooted until they're barely recognizable from how they started. Just look at how much Luffy and Goku have been butchered. Either that or they get sidelined in their own series like Ippo.Pokemon kept trying to go the soft-reboot route with TrAsh for over a decade and finally had to admit defeat and retire him.
>>58611682Yup. Company is booming everywhere besides the anime. It is amazing how irrelevant it is now.
>>58611649You said that I binge watched Pokemon before Horizon but I didn't, I have been following the anime since it first aired on CN. >>58611694>Keeping a static MC for decades doesn't work very well for series like theseExcept changing protagonist only makes thing worst. Look at how badly Boruto has fallen > Just look at how much Luffy and Goku have been butcheredYet their show still much more enjoyable than the ones with protagonist rotation. Truth is that Protagonist rotation only work for short seasonal anime where each MC only stays for 26 or 50 episode like Gundam. However if the anime spend over 150 episode on one protagonist then they becomes the very identity of the show itself.
>>58612165>You said that I binge watched Pokemon before Horizon but I didn'tI never said anything close to that. YOu're insane.
>>58611682The way TPCI treats it like it's still the 90s or early 2000s with no official simulsub and late dubs that butcher the soundtrack does not help with its worldwide adoption. The way people consume anime has changed considerably, it's ridiculous they refuse to adapt. It's as if the games still didn't get simultaneous worldwide releases.
>>58611694>Just look at how much Luffy and Goku have been butcheredLuffy's character has only grown better and better over the years. He started great, remained great, and is better today than he was at the outset. I have no real horse in this anipoke race but keep my glorious straw hat Luffy's name out of your mouth.
>>58612042>Yup. Company is booming everywhere besides the anime. It is amazing how irrelevant it is now.THIS is my issue with Horizons, not any stupid Ash shit. Pokemon is BIGGER than fucking EVER, and they're producing a poorly conceived flop instead of making something cool! >the animation is through-the-floor bad, worse than covid-era Journeys>the main characters have 0 relationship with eachother>the attempts at tension feel really half-hearted and flimsy>practically no comedy? c'mon. pokemon's gotta be funny>extremely diminished focus on competitive battling with no meaningful replacement>main characters Pokemon disappear for literal months at a timeAsh's era is long over, should have ended a decade ago. Getting rid of him was a MASSIVE chance to really get the anime in gear, to produce an anime series that'd be a massive phenomenon and explode Pokemon's already massive popularity back onto TV screens. Instead, they used the exact same staff to cheaply produce the least successful Pokemon series of all time. And Horizons fans will spin in circles trying to convince you that it's succeeding. What a way to run a fucking show. At the end of the day, I'm not a fan of any one character, I'm a Pokemon fan, and I want a cool fucking anime to watch, and they refuse to make it.
>>58612213Oh please. Even most remaining Juan Piss fans have given up trying to defend the Nika shit by now. Luffy is basically a Narou web novel protagonist at this point.
>>58612250>And Horizons fans will spin in circles trying to convince you that it's succeeding. You've been saying it flopped since release without evidence.>the main characters have 0 relationship with eachotherVery clearly false>the attempts at tension feel really half-hearted and flimsyYou're watching a show for toddlers, not to mention the standard for more than 20 years was pretending the doronjo copycats that are actually good people who used fucking robots actually wanted to steal the pokemon of the week.>extremely diminished focus on competitive battling with no meaningful replacement"Diminished" means you're comparing it with something else and the ashnime wasn't about that either.>main characters Pokemon disappear for literal months at a timeThis is literally not an issue unless you have ADHD.> I'm not a fan of any one characterYou're treating the one that lead 20+ of the worst product of the entertainment industry the same as one that, even if your complaints were true, has at worst been a boring show for about 3 years and soon to end.You aren't being neutral. You favor one. And I'm being generous here.
>>58612250>Instead, they used the exact same staff to cheaply produce the least successful Pokemon series of all timeAckshually, no, they didn't since it is a completely different staff and Horizonfags were going around saying it was a "real" anime staff
>>58612390> it was a "real" anime staffBecause it is.
I preferred Pokemon because it was a twenty minute monster of the day show where some characters wandered into a new location and did a thing with this weeks Pokemon. Whenever I try to watch Horizons, the Pokemon themselves are handled so poorly. It reminds me of how JN would go about them, which sucked... so long as Pokemon is focusing on the human characters, it's going be boring for me.
>>58612447>Whenever I try to watch Horizonsnice fic
>>58612466I did try! I watched the two episodes on YouTube. Liko went to school and they were fighting over her pendant or something, I was really turned off by it...
>They don't focus on the pokemon at all in 116 episodes because they had a human in the first 2
>>58612494>called Pokemon>human drama between human characters at human school I'll be honest, it's boring and irritating to have to see the ugly human characters, with their silly stories, making the Pokemon look boring. Then I heard they added a shiny Lucario and shiny Zygarde, who could care? It's like when that Goh kid caught the legendary in JN, it sucks!
>>58612522You seem to have it backwards. Let me help youAsh:humanShiny Lucario: PokemonShiny Zygarde: PokemonHope it helped.
>>58612482>I watched the two episodesSorry about your ADHD bro.
>>58612554I don't understand what you mean...>>58612562How many episodes am I supposed to watch?
>>58612572>I don't understand what you mean...That's as simple as I can make it. Seek help.
Tried to watch pic related but couldn't get into it, three humans and one pokemon as the main cast?Its called "pokemon" ffs!!
>>58612572Episode 6 is when the plot kicks in.
>>58612613plot is the only thing anon hates more than humans.
>>58612576I am seeking help. From you! Please explain what you mean. >>58612613What's the plot? Is it monster of the week? >>58612585What is it about Horizons fans that makes them like this? I even mentioned that Journeys has issues too...
>>58612250Not only is Pokemon bigger now then ever, but anime as a whole is bigger now then it was in the 90s and 2000s. It is a shame. With Ash gone, they had a real chance to reboot the whole thing. But instead, it looks like Journeys artstyle wise and the animation is on par with late journeys. Wishful thinking on my part, but I hope they go all in for the Gen 10 anime. 30th anniversary of the company and all.
>>58612522>it's boring and irritating to have to see the ugly human characters, with their silly stories, making the Pokemon look boringSo true. I'm glad they finally got this ugly shit off my screen and gave us a real Pokemon series.
>>58599223horizons is just confusing to me. i dont care about Liko's chosen one arc or whatever. I just want to see her battle all the gym leaders and get the badges.
>>58612677>they had a real chance to reboot the whole thingThey outright did that.>Journeys artstyle wise and the animation is on par with late journeysThat doesn't preclude it from being a reboot.>>58612726>horizons is just confusing to meTo be fair, its written for toddlers so it might be too complex for most people here.
>>58612630>What's the plot?I'm not gonna spoil you, retard. Find out yourself.>Is it monster of the week?Not at all, no.
>>58612702I didn't like SM or Journeys either, so I'm really excited to see the real Pokemon series! When is it coming out, anon?
>>58612771being passive aggressive isnt gonna make people wanna watch your dumb anime
>>58612773Oh... I was hoping it would be monster of the week. Thanks anyway, anon.
>>58612775You wont watch it anyways because it doesn't have Ash.
>>58612726>I just want to see her battle all the gym leaders and get the badges.How is that interesting at all? There is no stakes, no unexpected turns, no story to tell or characters to explore, nothing. All you would see is Liko getting badge 1 - 8 with some useless filler in between gym fights. Why the fuck would you want that? I seriously don't understand.
>>58612774April 14, 2023.
>>58612781>I was hoping it would be boring. Ok. Watch any anime with monsters for preteens instead, then.
>>58612788If Liko did that then the narrative would be that she's boring because she's doing the same thing.Then again, when the new MC comes they'll start pretending to have liked Liko all along.
>>58612790I don't even see a Pokemon anime when I search for popular anime in 2023...>>58612795Like what? Are the new seasons of Yu-Gi-Oh! good?
>>58612771They didn’t reboot anything lol. The show artstyle and animation is no different from Journeys.
>>58612818Works on my machine.
>>58599150This shit looks like garbage protagonist are ugly, no good looking males , amethio is the most popular character from horizons in Japan but he is not the protagonist, they killed friede too , if the show is not popular with women always will be a flop
>>58612835Oh, you mean Horizons is the new good Pokemon anime? I see... that's disappointing, but I'm glad you enjoy it!
The tranime the biggest flop of Pokemon hahaha they cancelled the movies removed trAsh, shit budget, zero promotion, kny movie outsold the Mewtwo movie lmao
The Gardevoir Poketoon mogged all the anime
>>58612830That has nothing to do with a reboot. Don't just copypaste words from poketubers.
>>58612869Yes anon, its not the first time you tried this one.
>>58599150Horizon fails because the story is about pokemon s/v which is shit
>>58612967I thought it was about Liko's chosen one journey that avoids the game at all costs?
>>58612967wrong, the story is about OC shit, not the games, and that's why it fails. At least Journeys was about catching mons and winning tournament battles; Horizons is about the descendant of some ancient shitty hero that had an unique team of giant mons, something that could have been the plot of a filler episode from an old season.
>>58612967The story of Horizons happens after SV.
>>58612967Why did you open your mouth when you clearly have no fucking clue what you're talking about, shit-for-brains?
>>58612677It's crazy to me that Horizons is putting up lower numbers than even Journeys did. I feel like if they got a better studio to produce a new anime (and put more cash into it) they could be drowning in new fans, merch sales, card sales, game sales, gacha sales... a truly undeniably good anime would really make Pokemon even more of a monolith.
Damn you people sure get all uppity over toddlers cartoons lol
>>58599193blaziken is a pedo?
Just popping in for my daily dose of Ashfag and Likofag schizophrenia
>>58612967No, it's failing because the anime is still satinized as fuck, it's 2025, tpc lives in the past lol games suffer the same but they sells, but the anime is so irrelevant
The Pokemon anime, whether Ash, Liko or Roy, conceptually fails because it has zero interest in telling an actual story set in the Pokemon World, since it's more concerned with being a glorified toy commercial. Every monster must be as surface-level marketable as possible for its often one-and-done existence in an episode, that way Little Kenji will beg mommy to go out to the store and buy a plushie or action figure of it because his little shithead brain became especially attached to the design on a spontaneous whim.You get way more out of Pokemon-specific storytelling with dedicated shorts like Poketoon, it's unreal the sheer difference in how much they give a fuck.
>>58614637This would bother me less if it was more advantageous to make a cheap, careless show, but HZ fell off a cliff after its relatively impressive start. Kids and adults were tuning in because the premise and production seemed pretty cool, but the way it quickly turned into Pokémon Journeys without the gags ensured that most casuals dropped off and only hardcore fans (like the one guy ITT fighting everyone) remained. I think OLM clinging to Pokémon is holding it back. A series that looks great, appeals to kids and adults, and gives the audience more time with fan favorite characters from the games would obviously move more merch.
It's kind of ridiculous that Pokemon actually has good manga but they refuse to adapt it for some reason. Even though the anime industry will adapt literally everything else they won't do it for the most profitable franchise on Earth.
>>58599150I hate that they removed the gym challenge focus in generalI still gave it a try for 40 episodes but it was boringI kinda blame it on the anime being forced to run forever instead of being seasonal
>>58614847its too boring, for an adventure series it feels more like a field trip if anything. one of the charms of watching Pokemon as a kid was inagining what going on a worldwide adventure with your friends without adults around you would be like. Feels like that free range exploration aspect of the anime has been gone since Sun/Moon (Journeys was ok)
>>58613101journeys and the ashnime in general had some kind of connection with the games. I never played the pokemon games until diamond/pearl came out, but you called talk with a kid that owned the games and not be too lost on who the characters were. You cant really do that now with Horizons because its too much of a pokemon fanfic series
>>58612967>story is about S/Vi actually wish. itd be great for people like me who skipped S/V so i could understand what its about on a surface level and not feel alienated from the community. instead its even more of a confusing clusterfuck than journeys was
>>58599150>the games have no standards>the physical copies of gsmes.have no standards>anon is worried the ashnime for toddlers has no standards LMAO
>>58614887That's such a good point. Horizons, despite its airship setting and adventure premise, lacks any form of romance in the true sense of the word. The crew isn't setting off to find interesting places, make interesting discoveries, or have dangerous adventures in the wild-- they're stopping in towns, talking to civilians, and having picnics.>what about Rakua?That's where this problem is actually most emblematic. Rakua was meant to be the secret hidden paradise, the treasured secret of this show's own Gold Roger... But it's just a grassy field with nothing of note besides maguffinium. There is no awe, no sense of discovery, it's quickly found and dispensed so they can move on to mega evolution. The airship on the poster of the anime suggests a far grander type of adventure, but the writing and production can't live up to that promise.
>>58614994>the games have no standardsand yet they have appeal and sell a lot of copies despite the obvious cut corners>the physical copies of gsmes have no standardsNigga only you know what you mean by this>anon is worried the ashnime for toddlers has no standardsThe games, TCG, and gacha all reach a broader audience than the anime. The games have found and grabbed an audience that won't ever let go, a big, profitable audience. The anime doesn't have that, and has been falling more and more with each iteration. Of course people are going to point out that the anime sucks if it sucks. It's obvious why you bothered to reply, though.
>>58615002Wasn't Rakua just chalked up that way because of the raw entries from Lucius and the interpretation in Alex's childbook? Them being less significant than from second hand accounts is pretty on-brand for legends. The only thing that is true is the fact that it is a paradise because the Pokemon are feeling at home because of the enviroment where even natural enemies between the Pokemon aren't feeling like fighting.
>>58615009>Wasn't Rakua just chalked up that way because of the raw entries from Lucius and the interpretation in Alex's childbook? Them being less significant than from second hand accounts is pretty on-brand for legends.Sure? But that fucking sucks, and there's nothing interesting or impactful even if it IS deliberately underwhelming. This isn't a situation where the end goal doesn't need to be interesting because the journey there was so thrilling-- the journey was a lot of fucking around and having poorly choreographed therapy fights against Lucius's Pokemon so that we can finally go to Rakua. Rakua should have been visually interesting but it wasn't designed at all, it's just another puke green plain in an anime dominated by puke green plains.
>>58612967It would be more successful if the story were about SV because the human character are popular
>>58615039Yeah, an anime arc more thoroughly depicting Arven's struggles to help his Pokemon get better would have probably done numbers. The fact is, Liko and Roy are characters that a lot of people decided to like or dislike before they even appeared on our screens. Minds were made up before the fact. Ashfags had become so annoying, so insufferable, so shipping obsessed, that the idea of latching onto the new and sticking your tongue out was too tempting. But after three years, really, what's good about Liko and Roy? They're the most nice, moral, sanitized characters I've ever fucking seen in my entire life, they have no fucking PULSE. They're everything bad about late-stage Ash but without the occasional goofiness.
>>58614887Honestly, Journey's did a poor job at it as well. Ash and Go living at a lab and just hopping to location of the day was dumb. MPM did it right by having Ash on the move again.
>>58615008the anime is too cringe and retarded just pokemon repeating their names makes it unwatchable
>>58614483>It's crazy to me that Horizons is putting up lower numbers than even Journeys did.It is not a surprise to me. Journeys still had Ash, who is iconic and a ton of fan services and references to older series that people enjoyed. HZ doesn't have any of that stuff to fall back on. They were probably better off doing a series entirely based off of SV. The gen 9 characters are probably the most popular batch of characters since at least gen 7.
>>58615222I kinda liked Journeys when it was just monster of the day shenanigans and was just trying to be entertaining instead of satisfying the decades old desires of Ash fans.
>>58614903Just play the game then?
>>58615546I did too. One reason I enjoyed MPM because it was exactly that. It is ironic, pandering to the Famons of the world is what eventually killed Ash lol.
>>58614637Whoa, you really broke the matrix bro.>>5861489899% of ashnime episodes have characters of the day which aren't in the games.
i wonder what percentage of these replies is just one moron larping with himself
>>58599150mentally not out there lmao
>>58611426lmao
>>58599223What I honestly miss is the traveling and bustling towns. If they're not on the ship, they're stranded at a fucking school.It's pokemon, I want to see a group of trainers going from town to town. They don't even have to collect badges, just fucking explore.
It's the lack of mon catching I don't like. I'm not expecting another Goh situation, where they just catch everything they see. But for god sake, can someone just battle a pokemon instead of simply being nice to it until it decides to tag along?
>>58617352Right, if every fucking capture has to be a meet-cute "Oh you want to come along?" moment, then it becomes boring. Goh was fucking awesome for chucking balls at every cool Pokémon he saw. I got so mad as a little kid when Ash wouldn't try to catch cool ass Pokémon, so Goh is perfect to me.
>>58599397>increasingly contrived ways for Ash to loseI only watched OS and that was years ago but wasn't it Ash's wins that were contrived? I remember him not even earning all of his badges properly and contriving reasons for him to earn them anyways.
>>58617648It's case-by-case.Most agree he deserved to lose Indigo League but should've lost in a better way than "referee considered the lazing Charizard KO'd because they weren't willing to wait for zard to get pissed off and retaliate in response to continued attacks from Ritchie's team".Orange Islands was a cool win since it demonstrated Ash's growth as a trainer, even if the league wasn't as grand and important as major continents.Silver Conference (Johto) was dumb shit because his loss was to shill Blaziken, one of the new up and coming mons, even down to having it beat Charizard in spite of a type disadvantage.Hoenn was an "eh, fair enough" since he got legitimately bested, Sinnoh was extremely notorious because it's where they asspulled the donut steel with a Darkrai and Latios, no one cared about Unova because that whole series sucked ass, and all the other leagues (Kalos, Alola, Journeys' World Coronation Series) were a big enough deal for anyone keeping up with Pokemon to any capacity to know the basic details about how they went down.
>>58617268Most correct post in the thread right here.
