>>58633957
No. It would still be the worst by a large margin. Fairy moves aren’t even common.

>>58633961
It's not even the worst type currently. Ice and Rock are objectively worse, and there's a strong argument for Psychic and Normal as well being slightly worse than Bug.

>>58633965
>It's not even the worst type currently
You don’t play the game.

>>58633957
Bug isn't that bad defensively, it's just bad offensively. Make fairy weak to bug and it's good to go.

>>58633957
Bug should be weak to all types because insects are small and weak

>Fairy moves aren’t even common.
not even giving you a (You) for that one, faggot.

>>58633988
When was the last time you saw a Pokemon use fucking Fairy as a coverage move?

>>58633965
> Ice and Rock are objectively worse
Offensively they are among the best guys

>>58633961
>Fairy moves aren't that common
post elo

>>58633999
you first

>>58633957
Bug defensively is fine. Its a discount Flying type, but resisting Ground and Fighting is always valuable.
What is bad about Bug are the Pokemon that have Bug are usually have the lowest stats of Pokemon and are tied with Grass for the most resistances (which unlike Bug, Grass hits Ground and Water to make up for its resistances).

>>58633988
>>58633999
There’s only 3 Fairy types in top 30 usage atm and the most common one doesn’t even fucking use its Fairy STAB most of the time. And Fairy moves are garbage as a non-STAB option unless the Pokemon has a shit movepool with no other options.

>>58633965
Rock maybe, Ice Psychic and normal no way
Normal > Psychic > Ice >>> Bug > Rock

File: 1705427078712.png (642 KB, 1447x1386)

642 KB PNG

>>58633965

>>58634052
now do one for all the mons in OU, I'm curious what it would wind up looking like.

>>58633984
This so much this, Normal type should also be weak to all types because when you're normal like a human or animal you can die to anything

>>58633965
Why is there always someone insisting that Ice and Rock are worse than Bug when that is demonstrably untrue? 7 resists is fucking terrible offensively and it doesn't have any valuable enough resists to fulfill a defensive niche, being weak to stealth rocks is also terrible even if it's mitigated by boots. Look at Forretress vs Ferrothorn, they're similar in role but one is just better

>>58634178
Campaignshitters are obsessed with weaknesses. It’s the only mechanic they can understand.

>>58633961
Wasn’t it used defensively in some cases by Incineroar and Rillaboom?

How to fix the type chart:

>Ice now resists Flying and Ground
Justification: Ice is just too fucking dysfunctional and lopsided of a type, most of the buffs it has received across the generations only benefit fast offensive ice mons. Snow and Aurora Veil will never cut it, Ice needs proper defensive matchups. Flying and Ground make the most sense for Ice to resist since they're are already weak to it, and they are both offensively powerful types with a strong competitive presence, they won't be too penalized by getting a new resist.

>Bug is not resisted by Fairy and Ghost anymore. Bug now resists Fairy.
Justification: Bug has way too many types resisting it, even for a type designed to be limited offensively. Fairy and Ghost are both already excellent defensive types, so they can do without the Bug resist, which doesn't make particularly sense thematically either. Fairy is also way too strong offensively, hitting key weaknesses and having too few checks, so Bugs resisting it is a nice buff. The thematic justification is that whimsical nature spirits are powerless against creatures of pure instinct.

>Psychic types are now immune to confusion and other volatile 'mind-based' statuses, like taunt and attraction.
Justification: Psychic is low-key pretty weak, having net negative matchups both offensively and defensively. This has only gotten more apparent in the last few gens, which are full of really strong Dark and Ghost types, plus it feels like Fairy has kind of taken over its spot as the mentalist type. Giving Psychic a passive defensive immunity like this, like the one Grass types got for powder-based moves, helps it make more distinct and gives it a much needed edge.

One final consideration: after applying these changes I don't feel Rock types deserve any further direct buffs, since Ice and Bug have been made considerably better and Rock counters both.

>>58633957
>All Bug types using Bug moves now get a mini-built in Tinted Lens (x1.5) and Coumpound Eyes (x1.15) in their moves
There, fixed.

>>58634295
>Ice is just too fucking dysfunctional
You don’t play the game

>>58634321
Ice needs defensive matchups.

>>58634310
>still does nothing for them defensively
nice fix retard

>>58634325
It already does. It’s called Snow, Snow Cloak, Ice Scales, and Aurora Veil, dumbfuck.

>>58633957
>most viable Fairy Types used Mystical Fire!
Damn, that was hard.

>>58634430
Those are crappy bandaids that don't address the underlying problems. Ice needs defensive matchups.

>>58634448
>Those are crappy bandaids
Why? Because they require you to remember more than one mechanic?

>>58634448
Have you tried using physically defensive ice types in response to those pesky fighting types?
Have you tried using specially defensive ice types in response to those pesky special attackers?
This is basic logic, something Cloyster taught us almost 30 years ago now.

>>58633957
Fairy was made to resist bug to remove gardevoir's weakness to it. Thats my headcanon and im sticking to it

>>58634448
>Those are crappy bandaids that don't address the underlying problems
tell smogshit to unban baxcalibur then

>>58634468
>he's so averse to playing the actual game that he has to care about what happens in the fanfic meta

>>58634473
but why did the fanfic meta ban baxcalibur if it's just a crappy bandaid that doesn't address the underlying problems?

>>58634529
Because they're playing a make-believe metagame with nonsense rules and bans based on hurt feewings where Baxcalibur is only "unbalanced" enough to be banned to Ubers due to the 6v6 format being completely different from anything the official metagames try to focus on.
Baxcalibur is perfectly balanced in VGC, meanwhile, it doesn't need to be banned there for being "too powerful" and the only time it'll leave is when it cycles out due to stronger mons being available or not being a part of that generation's Pokedex, as the generation and regulation schedules tends to go.

>>58633991
psychic and fighting types

>>58634535
What specifically made Baxcalibur worth banning that isn't just "omgon bad reeeee" babbling, yawnie?
Surely if you actually played the game you'd have an idea of what could have lead it to being banned

>>58634634
But anyone who plays Smogon isn't actually playing the game.
>What specifically made Baxcalibur worth banning
The council got hurt feelings over Baxcalibur beating their predictably basic strategies, and instead of developing new checks, counters or any other process that would naturally take place in a healthy, non-delusional metagame, perhaps causing Baxcalibur to naturally fall off in usage because the counterplay is simply too good while also still serving a sufficient role in the team in general, they instantly banned Baxcalibur like the petulant children they are.

File: KE2xA[1].png (124 KB, 861x919)

124 KB PNG

>>58634178
Hitting hard isn't the only way to win games. Bug has 2 major things going for it:
>Decent suite of resists with few weaknesses
>STAB U-turn (as well as every Bug getting U-turn), the best pivot move in the game and an easy contender for top 10 non-signature move in the games.
These alone, particularly the lack of crippling weaknesses giving it a decent defensive profile, put Bug above Rock and Ice. Sure, Rock and Ice are better offensively, but they're so much worse defensively that it's no contest.

Forretress vs Ferrothorn isn't as simple as you make it sound. Ferrothorn has a significantly better ability and significantly more special bulk in exchange for not being as physically bulky. It also has a better movepool than Forretress. And yet Forretress is still hanging on to competitive relevance alongside Mew, Gengar, Jirachi, Magnezone, and Blissey. Forretress simply got powercrept - it's by no means a bad Pokemon.

>>58634457
>Have you tried using physically defensive ice types in response to those pesky fighting types?
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Abomasnow in Snow: 248-294 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>>58634664
>only snow, no screens
>uses Abomasnow instead of an actually physically bulky ice type
Way to be disingenuous.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow through Reflect: 67-79 (17 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

File: 1694666168654779.png (267 KB, 783x450)

267 KB PNG

>>58634634
>What specifically made Baxcalibur worth banning that isn't just "omgon bad reeeee" babbling, yawnie?
Not YawnBITCH, but what pushed it over the edge was Thermal Exchange making it immune to Burn and the ability to Tera to win any bad matchup. Glaive Rush is a great move, and combined with its horrifying Attack stat and Dragon Dance, it was able to set up and run away with games with very few ways to stop it since it's immune to Burn.

Aurora Veil was just icing on the cake. It would've been banned before A-Ninetales came out if Smogon wasn't taking their time wondering if the funny fish that can 2HKO Blissey with a special attack was balanced or if Mega Weavile 2HKO'ing Dondozo with Crunch was balanced. Roaring Moon is worse than Baxcalibur and it still got banned twice for being a bullshit setup sweeper.

>>58634675
Avalugg is just the bulkiest Snow setter in the meta. Running Aurora Veil + Avalugg on the same team is absolutely retarded since either the Snow or Aurora Veil are going to run out in a short amount of time leaving Avalugg with its thumb up its ass or Avalugg and your Aurora Veil setter are going to get raped by rocks.

And in the time it took you to get your Aurora Veil up and switch into Avalugg, Conkeldurr has used Bulk Up twice and now dominates you even harder
>+2 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
>0 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. +2 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 39-46 (11.1 - 13.1%) -- guaranteed 6HKO after burn damage

File: images.png (11 KB, 263x192)

11 KB PNG

>>58634658
>(as well as every Bug getting U-turn)
GF pls

>>58634704
If I'm running a Snow Team, I'm extremely fucking obviously going to make use of A-Ninetales as my opener. All I have to do is lock that Conk into using Bulk Up with Encore if it wants to be greedy, and then it either has to facetank whatever comes its way that harasses its Special Defense, or switch into something else entirely.

>>58634707
Just pray they're not ground and appreciate having volt switch at least.

>>58633957
>>58633961
>>58633965
what do we mean when we say a type is good or bad? its moves are bad? its type matchups are bad? its pokemon are bad?

ice is an incredible offensive type in terms of its matchups. it has solid moves but lacks the 120+ BP (sometimes spread) nukes other types have. its pokemon more often than not fail to be the fast glass cannons they should be. as a result, ice factors into most teams in the form of ice beam slapped on a water type.

what about normal, whose type matchups are as uninspired as could be, but who has access to some of the strongest moves and pokemon in the game?

rock has a very similar thing going on. fire isnt the absolute peak of offense or defence, but certain individual fire mons (cough eruption) are some of the deadliest nukes in the game. sun massively benefits both its defensive and offensive power; same with rain for water. should that count for them? should sun also count for grass because of chlorophyll and solar beam/blade?

does bug get points because it happens to have the best stat boosting move in quiver dance? what about utility moves that happen to fall under a certain type? are psychic types incredible because trick room is psychic type?

im not being a dick, these are all completely sincere questions. how do you truly evaluate a type in its entirety?

>>58634016
Being contrarian doesn't make you cool retard

>>58634707
Would Forretress be better than Ferrothorn if it got U-turn and Sticky Webs? Ferrothorn would still have Knock Off, Leech Seed, better stats, and Iron Thorns over Forretress, but Forretress would have better hazards and also not be a momentum sink.

File: usagestats-gen9-ou-septem(...).png (1.46 MB, 1082x1508)

1.46 MB PNG

>>58634016
>6 Fairies in OU
>Only type with equivalent or higher usage is... Steel
>All of the Fairies use Fairy STAB
>Kingambit and Raging Bolt also frequently Tera into Fairy types

Fairy is the either tied for the strongest or is the 2nd strongest type in Singles (real Pokemon). Doubles isn't real Pokemon, it's a side mode like Pokemon Contests or the Pokeathlon.

File: 1692387422702226.png (205 KB, 573x398)

205 KB PNG

>>58634423
Bug's defensiveness isn't the issue, it's that with half the godamn type chart resisting it for no fucking reason & 20 quad-resists flat out making pretty offensive mons downright useless &/or without meaningful STAB just unusable as a whole.

>>58634535
>perfectly balanced in VGC,
NOTHING is "perfectly balanced in vgc" because they change the rules constantly and nobody has time to figure out what's optimal or not. Getting swept because your opponent protected twice in a row successfully teehee is not "balanced".

>>58635012
What if Ghost, Fighting, and Fairy stopped resisting Bug? Then only Steel, Fire, Poison, and Flying would resist the type, making it significantly better offensively.

Maybe make Rock resist Bug too if being resisted by only 4 types is too much.

File: 20241201_214338.jpg (239 KB, 1780x1506)

239 KB JPG

>>58635040
Cull the distribution of UTurn like with Scald/Kock Off/Defog & you got yourself a deal

>>58635012
i actually confused ice's problem with bug's lol my bad anon i'm the retard

>>58634825
that of you added it to a hypotethical typeless pokémon with access to every move and 0 resistances, without making any nore changes, it would be comparatively worse for it than other types

>>58635015
That's balanced because you didn't calculate the very real risk of that protect hitting a consecutive proc, and were punished accordingly for it.
Mindgames and games of chance are just as valid as anything in Pokemon, RNG is literally baked into the game's identity.

>>58635059
>Only Bug types, Smeargle, Incineroar, Arceus, and Mew get U-turn
>Only Rock types, Smeargle, Incineroar, Arceus, and Mew get Stealth Rocks
There, I fixed the game.

>>58633999
checked trips

File: 1760148942980057.jpg (135 KB, 960x960)

135 KB JPG

>>58635040
Fighting is already bad defensively, and it's only fair if Bug resists Fighting for the inverse to be true. IMO, just taking away Ghost and Fairy's resistances to Bug would be huge for it offensively. Those are 2 of the 3 best types in the game. They'd both still have their immunities so it's not like they'd be hurting that bad.

I'd also buff Bug type moves.

>X-scissor now has +1 crit chance like other Sharpness boosted moves
>First Impression, Sticky Web, and Mega Horn get distributed to more Bug types
>Skitter Smack goes from 70 power/90 acc to 60 power/100 acc while the SpA drop is changed to -2 instead of -1
>Pounce now lowers Speed by 2 stages and is buffed to 60bp
>New move called Molt (also given to crustacean Pokemon) that removes all statuses and heals the user by 33% while also dropping the user's Defense and Special Defense by 1 stage each

>>58633993
rock, maybe, what's the point of ice anymore? it's distinguishing aspect was the SE against dragon, and fairy just does it better. hell, even by gen 2 they'd kind of murdered its utility
>let's add the single best defensive type to the game and make it supereffective against ice. let's also make it weak to two of the types that are supereffective against ice, so that every team is running ice-killers just as a natural side effect
with some types they've kind of patched this sort of thing up with dumb moves like bug getting u-turn and the leech life buff, but ice has what? aurora veil? so you're kind of pegged into trying to force hail mono-type instead of being able to just slot ice types into normal comps
i'm sure ice still gets its time in the sun every now and then, but it really seems to me that the default state is ice skating up hill

>>58635191
>it's distinguishing aspect was the SE against dragon, and fairy just does it better
you don’t play the game

>>58635191
Like all types, there are some Pokemon that can leverage the utility the type offers into competitive success. In Ice's case it's just obnoxiously fast and powerful attackers that OHKO/2HKO the entire meta game in exchange for having 0 defensive profile. Weavile, Chien-Pao, G-Darmanitan, etc.

Ice is good when you deal so much damage that you never get hit. Never mind that you'd prefer those Ice types to be another type or combo of types with an actual defensive backbone that don't get shredded by Stealth Rocks.

>>58635200
He's right thoughbeit.

>>58635203
i mean, that's sort of the deal isn't it? nearly every type would be happy to have a hyper-fast, hyper-powerful attacker. if you throw enough stats at a pokemon it can assuredly overcome the default weaknesses of its type, but it would be nice if there were other ways you could reasonably use it

>>58634052
i'm surprised psychic is that high. is it just that they love to stack psychic on legendaries recently or does the type itself actually serve a purpose?

>>58635242
>stack psychic on legendaries recently
what do you mean recently?

>>58635280
maybe i'm hallucinating it, i haven't actually counted up numbers, but i feel like legendaries/mythics/paradox/etc. have had a higher than normal distribution of psychic types the last couple gens

>>58635211
He isn’t thoughever.

>>58635311
>>58635211
le epic discussion by 14 year olds

>>58634052
This seems a little disingenuous.
Flutter Mane alone is used more times than every Psychic-type combined.

9 generations in and there still is no Bug / Dragon type.

>>58635423
there are way more type combinations that shouldn't have been used yet since they were wasted on random 1-offs, alt-forms, legendaries, megas, and gimmick mons. Bug/Dragon shouldn't be added JUST to add it. It needs a good reason to be added.

>>58635296
Just Gen 7.

Legendaries with Psychic/part Psychic typing by gen:

Gen 1
>Mew
>Mewtwo
>(Galarian Articuno)

Gen 2
>Lugia
>Celebi

Gen 3
>Latias
>Latios
>Jirachi
>Deoxys

Gen 4
>Uxie
>Mesprit
>Azelf
>Cresselia
>(Arceus)

Gen 5
>Victini
>Meloetta/Pirouette

Gen 6
>Hoopa/Unbound

Gen 7
>Tapu Lele
>Cosmog
>Cosmoem
>Solgaleo
>Lunala
>Necrozma/DW/DM/Ultra

Gen 8
>Calyrex/Ice Rider/Shadow Rider

Gen 9
>(Scream Tail)
>(Iron Leaves)
>(Iron Boulder)
>(Iron Crown)
>Munkidori

There are more legendary/box legendary/event legendary Psychic types than there are legendary Dragon types.

>>58635423
There's also no Ghost/Rock type or Ice/Normal type. Some types are so bad they're better off not being made.

>>58634052
best types confirmed Fairy Ghost Ice Dark and Water

>>58635927
The only Ice type that's ever used in VGC is Chien-Pao and you somehow think Ice is a good type?

>>58635979
It's a good type on very fast pokemon with a lot of attack, which Chien-Pao embodies. Chien-Pao and Weavile are the ideal of Ice type

>>58634052
Counting the mons based on how many times they were used, rather than the number of species:
Dark: 19 + 14 + 9 + 4 + 2 + 1 = 49
Grass: 13 + 13 + 8 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 45
Fire: 14 + 13 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 40
Dragon: 12 + 12 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 39
Flying: 12 + 9 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 33
Fairy: 23 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 +1 + 1 = 31
Ghost: 23 + 6 + 1 = 30
Fighting: 16 + 9 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 29
Water: 13 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 25
Steel: 6 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 21
Psychic: 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 20
Ice: 19 + 1 = 20
Normal: 4 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 17
Ground: 5 + 4 + 4 + 3 + 1 = 17
Electric: 12 + 2 + 1 = 15
Poison: 8 + 5 = 13
Rock: 5 + 1 + 1 = 7
Bug: 0 = 0

File: 1747954394644211.jpg (52 KB, 750x675)

52 KB JPG

VGC players are getting bodied by PU/NU Pokemon on the regular (Farigiraf, Incineroar, Tornadus) while thinking they're authorities on competitive viability.

File: IMG_0637.png (136 KB, 1000x1000)

136 KB PNG

Smogshit players are getting bodied by shitmons like Diglett and Scovillain on the regular while thinking they're authorities on competitive viability.

>>58636149
>Diglett and Scovillain
QRD?

>>58636149
Hey Verlisify

File: 1713523780028549.png (86 KB, 283x252)

86 KB PNG

>>58636164
Arena Trap spam to the point where fucking Diglett was used in tandem with other trapping mons to get sweeps so the ability was banned.

Same for Moody, slowly but surely gaining boosts until you have a maxed out mon that can't die & 1shot everything. But unlike every Moody user up until this point, Scovillain actually has coverage & a movepool.

>>58636251
>so the ability was banned.
hasn't arena trap been banned for over a decade

>>58636436
Yes, but every once in a while they try to re-test it just to make sure it's still broken (spoiler: it is).

>>58636164
>>58636251
>>58636436
>>58636436
>>58636946
Arena Trap (and Shadow Tag) were actually banned because Stall was using them as targetted removal of stall breakers. Heatran specifically was getting its lunch eaten by Duggy, which made Stall too hard to deal with, so they banned Dugtrio. Then Stall switched to using Diglett and the same thing happened, so Smogon realized it's just trapping in general.

>>58637193
It wasn't just Heatran either. The other prominent stallbreakers, like Nidoking and Crawdaunt, were also Diglett victims. Diglett just needed a little more hazard support to take out Nidoking and Crawdaunt while still being able to OHKO Heatran.

252 Atk Diglett Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 236-282 (77.8 - 93%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

Giving Stall the ability to just remove one of the few counters to their team style ended up being like if hyper offense had the ability to just remove an Unaware Pokemon from play.

File: 956-2.png (1.45 MB, 2048x2048)

1.45 MB PNG

>>58637202
>Ability to just remove an Unaware Pokemon from play
Be still my heart

StallFAGGOTS have had it too good for too long

People say Ice is good offensively but no one ever uses Ice types to actually take advantage of that. Realistically Ice types should gain a few more resistances so that people can actually use Ice types for their offense without fucking exploding.

>>58634825
NNNNOOOOOOOOOO STOP LOOKING AT CONCEPTS WITH NUANCE AND CRITICAL THINKING RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>58635423
Remind me why flygon fags want a worse a type combination like bug/dragon

>>58637241
No one should lose a match because they guessed wrong once and the opponent ran away with the game.

File: worlds winners.png (460 KB, 1016x561)

460 KB PNG

>>58635979
Yeah only one ice type has ever been useful in VGC ever

File: fanficshit.jpg (1.25 MB, 1280x7172)

1.25 MB JPG

>>58637274
>but no one ever uses Ice types to actually take advantage of that
yeah because smogshit banned them all

File: 1755483425876584.png (1.39 MB, 2100x1555)

1.39 MB PNG

>>58638597
Even most VGC players think Ice is the worst type in the game. Yawnfag/Verlisify are just contrarians.

>>58638651
>bugfag can't count
checks out

File: 1669866624746225.gif (1.99 MB, 450x448)

1.99 MB GIF

>>58638585
No one should lose a match because the opponent just didn't fucking attack

Bug needs a wide variety of minor buffs, not one big one
Poison got to be SE against fairy, and while that did help, it’s still not a great type
Give bug a bunch of little buffs, it needs to have more than just one use

>>58638727
Using Toxic and Stealth Rocks is effectively attacking.

Since unaware is a thing it means they should unban baton pass.
Roar, dragon tail and whirlwind is also commonly used on top of entry hazards being a thing. I dont see why they still ban baton pass.

>>58636164
Arena Trap Diglett was used to remove Heatran and Tyranitar, which otherwise give Stall a lot of trouble, making Stall near unkillable.
Moody Scovillian is a Moody abuser and even VGC players hate Moody. Moody Smeargle was very close to being the first VGC Pokemon to be banned based on merit alone simply because Moody is a poorly designed ability.
Scovillian is especially Egregious because it gets both Leech Seed and Flamethrowe, so while it spams Protect and Substitute, it’s healing off of every non-Leech Immune Pokemon and Flamethrowering the Grass types.

Plus VGChildren get filtered by Phione and Cosmog, so its the pot calling the kettle black.

>>58639041
Unaware being viable does not mean that baton pass should be unbanned. You can still bust through an Unaware Pokemon due to Stored Power.

Here's Espeon with a flat +2 omni-boost 2HKO'ing the bulkiest Unaware Pokemon (specially):
>+2 252 SpA Espeon Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Skeledirge: 312-367 (75.9 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can easily get more boosts to bust through Unaware.

>>58639104
I’d also like to remind people about the high elo Baton Pass team fighting a team specifically made to counter Baton Pass and even had likes of Haze Quagsire, and the Baton Pass team ended up winning.

>>58639282
Gen 6 was the straw that broke the camel's back. Dragon Tail was the last true counter to BP and Fairy ruined that.

>>58637193
>Smogon realized it's just trapping in general.
Magnet Pull is fine, but that's because it only traps the inarguable best defensive type and the arguable best type overall.

>>58638727
How the fuck do you lose a match because the opponent didn't attack?
Was your only mon Wobbuffet?

>>58639313
Baton Pass was fully banned only after Gen 7 saw Magearna and Necrozma assrape teams with just a free speed boost.
Baton Pass was then banned fully in every Gen besides 2-3 and is still controversial in those Gens and not fully legal either.
Also Baton Pass didn’t have any trouble with Dragon Tail. They had Substitute and Suction Cups/Ingrain.
The actual problem is that Baton Pass lets you give any Pokemon stat boosts they otherwise would need to use a moveslot and need to tank multiple hits to get. Like Magearna in Gen 7 caused problems because it could recieve +2 speed without needing to use Automize or even have know the move in the first place. You’d then have a Magearna that’s likely outspeeding everything you have and can click ID, Calm Mind, or some coverage to sweep effortlessly. Base form Necrozma was similar with it abusing the boosts it got for free.

File: m9v85sjkk6c11.jpg (40 KB, 640x516)

40 KB JPG

>>58639378
>Switching every turn
>Rocky Helmet/Boots spam
>Regenerator stacking
>Healing as you're getting widdled down
>Unaware walls/phasing
It can happen & nothing brings my piss to a boil more than calling every turn right & the game just says fuck you against the safest pussy dogshit to walk the earth.

It's not wholly unbeatable barring any hax onto them but it's retarded that a 128+ turn game is ultimately decided without the opponent risking anything whatsoever.

>>58639344
Magnet Pull is fine because it traps only a fraction of Pokemon whereas only a fraction of Pokemon are immune to trapping from Arena Trap/Shadow Tag (Ghost types). You can play around Magnezone by not sending your Steel type out if your Steel type can't immediately switch/pivot out. Or, hell, just not bring any Steel types in general. Running Mono-Ghost is significantly harder and leaves you open to getting ganked by a single Dark type.

File: hq720[1].jpg (74 KB, 686x386)

74 KB JPG

>>58639458
>Switching every turn
Use hazards
>Rocky Helmet/Boots spam
Use Knock Off
>Regenerator stacking
Use Hazards
>Healing as you're getting whittled* down
Use Taunt, set up, carry Pokemon that can absorb status, etc
>Unaware walls/phazing*
Just hit the Unaware Pokemon hard bro. Don't tell me your team is OOPS ALL HYPER OFFENSE and you don't have a single stallbreaker like Gliscor, Nidoking, Crawdaunt, Heatran, Tapu Lele, Kyurem, Mega-Heracross, Mega-Medicham, Ursaluna... etc

Motherfuckers complaining about unaware and regenerator like stall isn't in the absolute weakest state it's ever been in
Literally just use Gliscor or Wake and you will blow up 90% of walls in the game

>>58639757
This. I can't believe people are complaining about Stall in Gen fucking 9. You can just run Hoopa-U and win the matchup outright.

It's time for the ultimate truth nuke:
The only "bad" type is normal. Because Normal literally has no advantageous matchups.
Ice has a great offensive profile. The problem with ice type is that the majority of it's pokemon are Dugong and not Weevil. That has really nothing to do with the type itself and everything to do with the pokemon.
The same can be said of Rock type. The type has so many good offensive matchups Gamefreak made all their moves inaccurate and give offensive rock types ridiculous down sides or bad stat distributions. This again, isn't an issue with the type chart itself, this is an issue with rock moves and rock pokemon
Bug type is filled with tons of low BST pokemon and Sticky webs is still too gimmicky and polarizing to be a reliable build around archetype. Defensively bug type is largely fine.
Psychic type is actually a good type and anyone advocating for it to get buffed is retarded.
All these suggested buffs, shifting the type chart, wouldn't actually fix many problems and would just create more problems of a different kind. I'd rather Ice type not become water type but with ridiculous offensive profile

>>58639757
Isn't Gliscor banned? It's hard to keep track of what they ban and unban this gen...

>>58639955
>Because Normal literally has no advantageous matchups.
hitting things neutrally and being hit neutrally can actually be a benefit, and in fact is one of the reasons Normal, and DRAGON, were so good for so many gens.

>>58640094
Hitting for neutral can be good, but as you said, other types can do the same thing and have more advantageous matchups. As an offensive type that hits a wide spread of things for neutral, Normal is competing against Flying, Dragon, Dark, Ghost, and Fairy, which all have actual benefits defensively and offensively.
And on the defensive side, having no resistances is only a liability. I don't think there's a single pokemon actually benefiting from being normal type. There's a reason there's no normal types in OU right now.

>Bug is now a version of the Flying type that trades Bug resistance, Ground immunity, weaknesses to Ice and Electric for Ground resistance, Fairy immunity and weaknesses to Fire and Flying.
Still really good, especially when paired with bulky Ground types.

>>58639955
Bug almost has no advantageous matchups either though.
Almost every type weak to bug commonly gets paired with fire/poison/steel/fairy.
Almost every type that bug resists, gets stone edge/aerial ace/fire punch/etc as coverage

Grass is about the only type that bug almost never fears, but you could say most ghosts matchup poorly against normal as well.

>>58640296
>Bug almost has no advantageous matchups either though
Bug resists fighting and ground and is one of the only types that hits dark for super effective. These are all pretty relevant

>>58640309
>These are all pretty relevant
until you realize you actually need to KO pokemon to win the game

>>58640309
Did you read my post? I stated most types that bug resists is granted rock/flying/fire as coverage, which steel and fighting do almost universally.

>hits dark super effectively
But fighting is way more practical to use against dark. I run monobug quite a lot and almost never even run bug attacks.

>>58640225
Blissey historically loves being Normal

>>58633957
Gut U-Turn distribution so that now only bugs and bug egg group can learn it. Now Bug type is a top 6 in the game

>>58639458
But you said you lost BECAUSE the opponent didn't attack. It's not like you'd have won if the opponent did attack.
Passivity is a strictly bad thing, and nobody sets out to build a passive team. They build teams for longevity, and passivity is an accepted drawback for focusing on defense so much.
And any tool that you could use to get rid of a wall that you weren't able to break, is a tool they could use to get rid of your wallbreaker.

>>58640309
fighting/ground resistances are good but flying does this better and as >>58640320 mentioned there's the issue of coverage
i wouldn't mind seeing attempts at more defensive bug types though, i think it's an interesting defensive profile

>>58640093
Removing Hidden Power was a mistake.

>>58640842
Longevity is a byproduct of passivity you know-nothing retard

>>58641000
I dont play comp, how good would hidden power be today?

>>58634632
>psychic
Just use fighting
>fighting
Huh? How does fairy help there?

Anon is right in a way, fairy isn’t used for coverage, however fairy types are common and most of them run fairy stab

OP is a faggot because bug being immune to dairy makes zero sense

>>58633982
This

Bug should be super effective to fairy and fairy against bug for the same reason bug and fighting are resistant to each other.
Bug is too small to hurt big muscle, but big muscles can't get a hit on the small thing.
Bug and fairy are both small so they can both hit and hurt each other easily.
This would have been perfect.

>>58634295
I keep saying that bug should also not be resisted by fighting, but should also be resisted by rock. This would give rock a much needed buff, and it would make sense because there's no logical connections between bug/fighting/ghost/fairy

I guess a dark type would benefit from fairy coverage actually. But all the good dark types are dual types and dark is never their primary attacking type. They always prefer their other stab for damage. Dark is used for utility stuff like sucker punch and knock off that typically doesn’t care about being resisted.

I have an autism sheet if my idealized type setups in a world where gen 2 had more foresight about the future of pokémon and where we got light type instead of Fairy type.
Can't post RN because I'm slacking off at work. But basically, Light, Dark, Psychic becomes a new trio. Light is immune to dark, dark is immune to psychic, psychic is immune to light.

Electric becomes super effective against dragon. Dark resistant dragon. There is no type that both resists and is effective against dragon.
The only thing I don't like about this is that it makes electric too similar to ice offensively.

Dark now resists fighting, and is not resisted by it to compensate for getting stomped by light.

Poison is more of an offensive type with SE against bug.
I think I gave bug SE to ground or something?

>>58641279
Oh and I made dark and ghost fully neutral to each other and made light good against ghost instead.
Just a huge flavor fail to make dark good vs ghost. Just makes no sense to me thematically. Ghosts live in the dark.

>>58641000
No, hp was always lame, all universal options were. They just needed to ban tera.

>>58641269
>They always prefer their other stab for damage.
... What are you talking about? Dark types are always using their stabs as their primary source of damage. Darkrai, Gambit, H-Samurott, TTar, all spamming dark moves all the time. Ting Lu doesn't I guess?

>>58641374
>Darkrai
Sure, with sleep banned now if would probably like moonblast if it got access to it
>Gambit
It uses sucker punch for priority not because it’s a dark move
>H-Samurott
It uses ceaseless edge because it sets spikes
>TTar
Probably uses its rock stab more especially now that pursuit is gone