>will never be seen in competitive again
>>58727275In turn based formats?>AbsolX is never seeing the light of day unless it ever gets fairy typing>GarchompX became a lot better once it got scale shot. A lot of people still don't realize how dangerous this thing is>LucarioX is better without question. Adaptability is broken, and they're not giving Z the same ability. The extra speed is irrelevant when Lucario has historically been a priority based sweeper.
>>58727310Absol XY is the only big loser here. Because the other two megas work a lot differently while the Z mega basically does everything the old one does and better. Even with a shit ability it will still be better. The I guess XY is a better special attacker but with only 115 sp atk this is not worth it at all
>>58727310>calling the originals XIf anything they would be Y, but they aren't. They are just OG Megas or the "A" if you want to represent the duality with the Z ones, but they aren't X what the fuck are you saying
>>58727310>The extra speed is irrelevant when Lucario has historically been a priority based sweeper.The extra speed isnt IRRELEVANT, since this allows it to now hit things with generally-stronger-non-priority moves. Aura Sphere's going to be stronger than Vacuum wave pretty much no matter what. I agree with the rest of your analysis though, and OG MLucario will definitely still have a place. Adaptability CC still hits hard as a fucking freight train, and LucarioZ wont likely be able to replicate it. Goes without saying, but a lot of this does depend on abilities. I half expect the Z Megas to get hindering abilities to counteract their blatantly minmaxed statlines. Defeatist incoming On the other end of the spectrum, if they just minmax further and give everyone Tough Claws/Special Claws, they'll be way too strong to ever consider using the originals.
Lucario Z has lower Attack than even base Lucario, and most likely won't have Adaptability, so its physical and non-STAB damage output will be lower.
>>58727335I’m betting they’re a time limited thing, like dmax lasting 3 turns
>>58727353I expect ZCario to be mega launcher to really focus in on the special and aura sphere thing. >>58727335>too strong to ever consider using the originals It's already the case already with absol and garchomp. Z Chomp does not lose any attack and so it can go physical if it wants. Only Lucario is worth using both. Unless absol and garchomp get new abilities since both magic bounce and sand force are useless for these two
>>58727376Yeah that's exactly why Defeatist comes to mind. Roughly replicates that same concept without introducing a new mechanic. But if they wanna do a new mechanic, limiting their evolution to 3 turns is a great way to do that too, and within scope.
>>58727321I'll give you Lucario, but Absol's model very clearly formes an X with its wings and spread out front legs
>>58727310>mega chomp A being betterWell that’s good. I always liked the design for it.
>>58727380>It's already the case already with absol and garchompAbsol, yes without a doubt. Outside of turn limits/hindering abilities, I cant see a world where Z doesnt outclass the original.MGarchomp still has a niche though, albeit it wont see more usage than ChompZ. Its a lot stronger at baseline, utterly nukes shit under sand, and like the other anon was alluding to Natdex shows that Scale Shot is a massive buff for it.It'll be more niche than Z, likely only on sand teams, but it has way stronger raw breaking potential.
Absol Z just completely mogs the original
>>58727396>sand teamsThat's a good enough niche but i dont know how much it will really carry it since we now have things like mega drill who may or may not keep sand rush (probably not) but it has 103 speed so it doesnt matter anyways. Idk I just think sand kinda just sucks right now, its by far the worse weather
>>58727410Admittedly, Excadrill could throw a wrench in that, I'll give you that. Have to see how that plays out.
>>58727392Yeah and it formes Y with its legs together, which is its actual normal pose... and the X-Y shaped autism isn't a thing, only the Mega Raichus, which are explicitly said to be X and Y shaped officially and in-universe, have that trait.
>>58727396Mega Garchomp still has the same problems as ever, Garchomp already hits hard enough and is way faster, which makes a huge difference, losing your mega slot for regular Mega Garchomp is just not optimal when you can use it for something that really benefits from it, like other species or just Garchomp Z. Garchomp Z also has the advantage of playing differently due to the special focus and pure dragon typing, so it will serve a different purpose, you either go for the classics and stick to Garchomp because the regular mega isn't worth it or get fancy and use the special speed demon Mega Garchomp Z is.
Every mon with 2 Megas has one that is physical and the other is special (Mega Lucario is mixed in theory but everyone uses Sword Dance Close Combat). Absol is the only one with two physical Megas, and Z is so much better by stats alone that there's absolutely no reason to use the XY version.
>>58727478>Every mon with 2 Megas has one that is physical and the other is special except for the two of them that doesn'twhat did he mean by this
>Lucario ZMega LauncherGarchomp Z>Levitate? Wind Rider?>Absol ZTough Claws? Super Luck?I think Absol and Garchomp Z have high potential to get new abilities desu
>>58727478>>58727494Even worse there are only 6 pokemon with two megas so it's basically making up a pattern that only applies to 66% of the pokemon lmao
Lucario Z is going to be just as good as OG Mega LucarioPeople forget just how silly nasty plot Lucario could get
>>58727474>Mega Garchomp still has the same problems as everM Garchomp's problems are strongly overstated, especially now that it has a direct patch to its biggest issue with Scale Shot. This isn't just theorycrafting either, we've seen it play out over the years in ageing metas and Natdex with Scale Shot.>Garchomp already hits hard enough and is way faster(Assuming you're referring to Z here -- I'm going to assume Garchomp Z isn't receiving a damage boosting ability. That would strike me as a bit TOO much, but I could be wrong.)Does Garchomp Z hit hard enough to do its job, and be mostly better than MGarchomp, absolutely. Hard enough to crush every wall in its path? Definitely not. OGMchomp (fuck me wish theyd just call it Garchomp A) has STAB EQs, a whopping 40 more points in Attack, and a 30% boost to its more spammable moves under sand. Garchomp Z will likely run its classic mixed set with a phys focus, but even in its most favorable light its working off of a weaker SpAtk stat, weaker STAB attacks, and (presumably) no boosting moves nor STAB coverage. OGMchomp hits way, WAY harder than Z.OGMchomp is just outright better at stall/wall breaking, its handling an entire archetype much more aptly. To be clear, I'm not making the case that OGMchomp will be totally superior or anything. While OGMchomp does handle a different archetype better, its still largely going to be relegated to one of the weaker weathers. Its just that its not a case like OGMAbsol to Absol Z, where the latter is functionally superior in every way.
>>58727556>(presumably) no boosting movesI said moves here, I meant abilities. I know it does get Nasty Plot.
>>58727538>People forget just how silly nasty plot Lucario could getand now Mega Chomp Z has Nasty Plot
>>58727519Don't forget Ash Greninja, literally created by GF as not!Mega Greninja for the gen 6 anime. And it's as mixed as regular Greninja and the proper Mega Greninja they created laterSo only roughly 28.5% of pokemon with two megas makes one focused on physical attack and the other on special
>>58727275Who cares they're peak designs tied to their base forms and new z formswhat did your shitmon get?
>>58727556>Garchomp Z will likely run its classic mixed set with a phys focusWhy would it ever do that? It has nasty plot. There's no reason to go mixed The only issue with Z Chomp is dealing with Fairy Type special walls
>>58727586I said "(presumably) no boosting moves", but I meant to say ability, that was my bad. I know it gets Nasty Plot.I expect it to run its classic mixed set because it gets a fat fuckin buff out to it. Physical attacks are largely stronger on average.. Z keeps the same attack stat its been working with, but gets an insane Speed boost, which alone would justify it. But also, its SpAtk buff lets it drop Corvs/Skarms/flying Steels way easier, without needing to invest or rely on the way shittier Fire Fang.The only thing its missing out on is STAB EQ, but that's an issue for the Z mega regardless of if its Earth Power or EQ. It'll definitely also run fully special sets, but I expect mixed to be its main go to.
>>58727586Because Chomp's physical movepool is better. Without STAB EQ, it will be much more reliant on poison jab for hitting fairies like the returning Tapu Fini. The good news is that its uninvested fire blasts will hit far harder than ever before.
>>58727586>The only issue with Z Chomp is dealing with Fairy Type special wallspoison jab
Garchomp getting Vacuum Wave is just absurd.
Base Baxcalibur is better than both mega ChompsIt's also better than mega Baxcalibur
>>58727671Its very funny, but I dont think itll see a whole lot of use on it.GarchompZ already outruns the damn world, and its got reasonable bulk still to soak a hit or 2 from whatever it doesnt. Not a lot of fast/setup mons are weak to Fighting either. Plus, since it has to rely on mid Dragon STAB as its only STAB option, its going to have 4MSS pretty hard. Between STAB and SD/NP, its got just 2 moveslots to work with.
>>58727676if it loses thermal exchange then absolutely. 2 in 1 abilities are stupid as fuck
>>58727684>its got just 2 moveslots to work withMaybe zero because it has no reason not to run Earth Power and Flamethrower/Fire Blast.
>>58727685The attack boost isn't relevant. It's a glorified water veil.
>>58727676>than Mega BaxYou aren't tearing down that thing, it has too much HP for those defenses, it's basically Mega Kyurem.
>>58727676Who cares it has a terrible design
>>58727684Can Zeraora finally learn Ice Punch? Because it outspeeds Garchomp Z. Lucario
>>58727699You weren't tearing down the regular one either in snow either. Base Bax is just mega Bax with a held item.
>>58727694The attack boost is just a bonus. I swear to god, everyone seems to forget that the ability prevents burn. That's what makes it retarded. Removing a physical attackers potential counterplay is what makes this ability broken.
>>58727725I haven't looked at its PLZA moveset, but as of Gen 8 it could not, no. It does get Play rough is the best it gets for dealing with Dragons, but unless it gets a damage boosting ability, it doesn't OHKO (stats/types/held items adjusted for calc)252 Atk Zeraora Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 260-306 (72.8 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's a shame Mega Garchomp Z loses Ground type because having the two strongest pseudos be ground and ice, like opposing forces, would have been kino and less cliche than just ground and flying again
>>58727676Depends on the abilities for the megas.
>>58728469I bet the reason Mega Garchomp Z loses ground type is precisely so it's not OHKO'd by Mega Baxcalibur
>>58727275Lucario gets another broken tool under its belt and people are going to shit themselves in whether they're deal a physical variant set that is still broken to this day mind or the new special variant that people are calling the second coming of Calyrex shadow rider. You won't know which one you're dealing with until its most likely to late.
>>58727275Mega Garchomp now can boost it's speed and still has a niche as a bulky very strong physical attacker and being /Ground typeMega Lucario is also good because it's a stronger physical attacker than Lucario Z, Indirectly gets a buff because mindgamesMega Absol is absolutely fucked tho, literally inferior to Mega Absol Z in evrey single way. Brutal mogging
>>58728855Sounds like Protean/Ash Greninja all over again
>>58728932Exactly.
>>58728947I'm honestly surprised it took Lucario this long to become this problematic
>>58728956Mega Lucario was an issue during Gen 6 but fell off during Gen 7. You know Mega Z is so insane because it’s a shillmon.
>>58728956Mega Lucario back in the day was treated as Satan incarnate but so were a lot of megas like Kangaskhan. The Z form not only give Lucario another option, but its stats are incredibility similar to Calyrex shadow's with the ability likely being mega launcher.
>>58729003Don't forget, they very specifically gave Lucario 151 Speed to guarantee it'd outspeed an Unscarfed Shadow Rider, who sits at 150. They WANT this thing to be the Calyrex Killer.
>>58729012>Calyrex KillerThats obviously going to be absol. All the z megas will be good, a little iffy on garchomp but even if zcario and zabsol get shitty abilities they will still be broken
>>58728932I miss Ash Greninja...
>>58729051If ZChomp gets a good ability it will absolutely be busted
>>58729051Both can do the job, different primary attacking stats for different Calyrexes.In terms of VGC, Lucario's solid for killing off Shadow since it's usually trying to glass cannon sweep, Absol's solid for killing off Ice since it usually runs special defense bulk.
>>58727275>Absol z is just a direct improvement over normal mega absol>Chomp z may see some play in singles as a pivot to help it beat pokemon that out speed it or physical walls but THE earthquake pokemon losing ground stab is not great>Lucario z is just a special option. It probably won't have adaptability and won't be using extreme speed or bullet punch but it has a higher speed stat to make up for it
