The Physical/Special split didn't happened until Diamond/Pearl.How the fuck did they fuck up this badly for 2 gens? I'll give them a break on Red/Blue but this should have been a things way earlier.
>>58766455Did they ever explain this in-game, or were you just expected to get it? It's a near universal experience for people who got into Pokémon during or after DP to not know about this when playing older games.
>>58766455>it’s bad because…I’m shit at the game
>>58766458I don't remember it ever being explained in any game, but XD had a type table that was split into phys/spec.
>>58766467Don't be an idiot. It wasted Pokemon like Gyarados who has a huge attack but only learned special moves.
>>58766489My Gyarados could use Hyper Beam and Earthquake just fine. Sounds like you’re just shit at the game.
>>58766467>>58766492It was objectively bad game design and even you know it behind the coping boomertranny act you're pulling.
>>58766492Gyarados can't learn EQ in Gen 1 or 2, nice try.
>>58766476I’ve never played this game but something about the UI is nostalgic to me
>>58766541>having one of the pokemon’s stats not be completely fucking useless is bad game design because...I’m shit at the game
>>58766546You want BOTH of its attacking stats be useless?
>>58766566That’s the exact opposite of what not having the zoomersplit does.
>>58766572OP here, I'm 19. What's wrong with zoomers?
>>58766572We're talking about Gen 1 Pokemon here
>>58766455I just wish they reworked the stats of pokemon who were created thinking about this kind of pre split
>>58766492>EarthquakeAnon...
>>58766455Pre-split was fine. Post-split was when Gamefreak doubled down on making everything a progressively more minmaxed hellscape, in turn heavily nerfing types like Ice to their graves.
>>58766588No we aren’t.>>58766631Zoomer…
>>58766455Poison and Ghost should be special while Dragon physical. Aside from that the classifications are pretty intuitive.
>>58766695>Gyarados isn't a Gen 1 Pokemon
>>58766743>Gyarados doesn’t exist in Gen 3
>>58766694>in turn heavily nerfing types like Ice to their graves.that was gen ii>articuno: loses its SPA in gen 2>dewgong: loses its SPA in gen 2>lapras: loses its SPA in gen 2In one fell swoop, Gen 2 rendered 3/5 Gen 1's ice types useless. Sneasel, Piloswine and Deliberd were also total ass.
>>58766762No. The main reason Ice types were viable in gen 1 is because there were basically no fighting or rock moves in the game and most ice-types resisted Fire anyway. The moment decent fighting type moves started being added, Ice's usefulness as a type plummeted.
>>58766848>m-muh weaknesses!you’re a campaignshitter
>>58766761Gyarados' Pokedex number doesn't start with a 3
>>58766852>Gyarados doesn’t exist in Gen 3
>durr split made sneasel worse look at these tier comparisons>"weavile exists in gen 4 you fucking retard">how do i use weavile in UU?Saved you a thread.
>>58766873I don't see Gardevoir being outdated in Gen 3
>>58766455>didn't happened
>>58766886Well? How do I use Weavile in UU?
>>58766920Why do we suddenly care about fanfic metas where the people who care about them don't even play it, they just seethe about tierlists and damage calculators?
>>58766927>Why do we suddenly care about fanfic metasbecause splitards rely on it to try and argue the split is good
>>58766931I don't need fanfic meta to know that giving Water-types a physical weakness is a good thing
>>58766960>>58766851
>>58766962You wanna try convincing me that you have the advantage otherwise? Post some matchups
>>58766963Moves do damage even if the “it’s super effective!” text doesn’t appear on the screenhope this helps
>>58766974Do they do more damage if they're not Super Effective?
>>58766991They do more damage if you stop being shit at the game and learn how to remember more than one mechanic at a time, yes.
>>58766991If you utilize stat boosts, held items, abilities and field modifiers correctly, yes.
>reads thread>turbo autist acting like physical/special split wasn't objectively beneficial, calling people bad at the game and campaignshittersfucking obnoxious
>>58766998>>58767002And how does that do more damage than a STAB SE Wild Charge?
>>58767007>no you see it’s objectively beneficial for nearly every pokemon to now have a completely useless stat>no you see it’s objectively beneficial that I now need to think less about the game
>>58767015>>no you see it’s objectively beneficial for nearly every pokemon to now have a completely useless statThis was what happened when the Special Stat split into SpA and SpD, but /vp/ isn't ready for that conversation.
>>58767015SLOWFRAIL
>>58767022>being slow and frail was a trade off for being able to use moves of all types effectively>now it’s completely meaninglessGlad we agree the split made the games worse.
>>58767027Right, I forgot how slow and frail Tauros was
>>58767033Right, I forgot you can use special moves effectively with 40 special attack
>>58767044Was Tauros slow/frail in Gen 1 or something?
Gen II couldn't have the split because it was built off of archaic Gen I code and needed to connect to that game to even justify the connectivity to begin with. If they really wanted to, Gen II could've just been completely independent games like Gen III to further extend its engineInstead we get Gen III, the bastard half-measure between the games making sense and the games being built as JRPG facsimiles. Nothing about Gen III makes sense>Add more Physical/Special Pokemon that contrast their type like Absol>Add Independent Values to make Pokemon unique but have all superbosses use max IV Godmons anyway>Add abilities but don't balance them because too many Pokemon to balance>Cut nearly 200 Pokemon from the dex to resell them to you with an inferior Gen I remake that doesn't even have ALL of the missing PokemonThe standards were lowered here and raised with DP, but then they were never raised again
>>58767058Was Tauros a mixed attacker in gen 2/3 or something?
>>58766920Weavile wouldn't be OU without the split.
>>58767063Did Tauros get all its coverage in Gens 2 and 3?But let's talk about all the coverage Flareon enjoys for its sacrifice as a SFMA, such as...um...
>>58767070>weavile wouldn’t be OU of if you placed it in a completely different game the developers didn’t design it aroundwow what a compelling argument>>58767078>Did Tauros get all its coverage in Gens 2 and 3?Yes.>But let's talk about all the coverage Flareon enjoys for its sacrifice as a SFMA, such as...um...It can use moves of all types effectively. Try to keep up, campaignshitter.
>>58767085How was Sneasel designed for presplit?
>>58767015>a completely useless statSounds like a skill issue. Pokemon can still use their moves effectively.
>>58766492>EarthquakeYou don't play the game.
Meh, I'm just going to fap to inflated Primarina instead of look at this thread any further.
>>58767060Gen 2 couldn't battle with gen 1, and already overhauled much of the battle engine. It could have absolutely had the split and still retained compatibility.
>>58767060>>58767311The thing that you miss is that Color-enhanced Game Boy Game Pak (Gold and Silver were just color-ehanced GB games!) used by GF had 2MB of space. Additional graphics, text and data for every move would just be too much, especially that we know that fucks from Gamefreak had issues with compression and needed Iwata to build compression tools for them.Could they do it? Maybe with some planning, hindsight and time but GS was already project restarted at least once and Gamefucks were struggling to fit it into cartridge.
>>58766476am i blind? I don't see what you're talking about
>>58767458The Japanese versions of Gold & Silver only had a 1mb cart, and there was still unused space. Adding the physical/special split is trivial and so many rom hacks these days have it.>Additional graphics, text and dataIt's just one bit per move. It wouldn't need any more text than a single string for the 3 categories, and graphics wouldn't be necessary at all.You have no idea how video games are made.
>>587674711mb cart, so it's even smaller.Also last time I checked Pokemon moves come in three categories so no, it would not be one bit per move because even completely clueless person know that bit has exactly 2 states. They could just theoretically count status moves as either physical or special moves just dealing no damage but I'm pretty sure that would introduce a lot of bugs and inconsistencies.The move table has space for 255 moves and assuming you would use 2bits per move, that's 510 bit. That's pretty huge for what it is.And obviously there was space left on the cartridge AFTER Iwata's intervention. Obviously GF could not account for that when they were working on battle system. Best they figured out was filling that space with already existing assets and maps from Gen 1, change few things and go "hurr durr second region hurr durr".You have no idea what you're talking about. Please consider not writing anymore.
>>58766455As a kid I remember thinking it was based on attacks that made contact.
>>58767096How was Sneasel designed for post split if it ended up being in a lower tier?
>>58767123>hurfff deee hurrrrr
>>58766489You dont be an idiot. Gyarados had 100 special in gen 1. It could dish out crazy damage with both physical and special. But retards ignore stuff like that.
>>58767060Pokemon was always a "JRPG facsimile." It's just a shit JRPG because GF is a shit developer.
>>58767015The split changes nothing about that aspect. The only difference between now and with older Pokemon is that older Pokemon have their offensive stats closer to each other and bulk was lower as well.A Swampert could get away with running Hydro Pump because its SpA was barely lower than its physical. Meanwhile Kingambit and Flutter Mane have a much larger difference between their main offense and lesser offense, so you never see them use the lesser offense ever.And with the new EV system introduced in Gen 3, it’s better that way.
>>58767644>The split changes nothing about that aspectWhy would I ever run special moves on Gyarados with the split?
>>58767843Gyarados hasn’t run special moves since Gen 2, which it only ran because of its dogshit movepool being Hidden Power, normal moves, Rock Smash, and Reversal for its only physical moves.Gen 3 gave it Earthquake and Dragon Dance, and it never looked back.
>>58767467The chart on the bottom-right. Normal and below are physical, fire and below are special
>>58767920>Gyarados hasn’t run special moves since before the splitGlad you agree the split made one of its stats entirely worthless.
>>58767934Gen 3 was before the split, retard
They should have done the split in gen 3, they were already forced to fully rewrite the game in C as opposed to Z86, it would have made a lot more sense to do it then IMO.
Yeah this was always crazy to be, and I'm an oldfag who still has their original Red cart. Entire Pokemon were locked out of viable STAB.
>>58766458I recall Stadium 2 somehow explaining it and I remember my mind being blown.
>>58766492>People who weren't here for the games in question are the ones blindly defending it.For what purpose? To what end?
>>58768006>>58767547
>>58766492>Hyper Beam outside of Gen 1>Earthquake on Gyarados before Gen 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LitG4iAs_C0
>>58768060>>58767547
>>58766583Millennials have started taking their anger for being blamed for everything out on zoomers. There's some legitimate grievances but 99% of the time it's not about shit like "most zoomers don't think that bullying is wrong" or "more than half of all zoomers say that doxxing is a useful life skill," it's just millennials being salty.
>>58768065We're laughing at you because you think Hyper Beam post-nerf is a good move.
>>58768082When did I say it’s a good move?
>>58768091see >>58766492
>>58768111Well, which Gen are we talking about specifically?
>>58768111Nah you’re just retarded and trying to back pedel after exposing yourself as a shitter.
>>58768188Gen 1-3.>>58768294Nah you’re just retarded and can’t read. Nowhere in the post does it say Hyper Beam is good.
>>58768426That's an awfully wide range, you act like nothing's changed between them
>>58766886Why would you even want to use weavile in UU? It's an OU pokemon
>>58768529Because splitards keep insisting that the reason Sneasel isn’t UU is because Weavile exists. So clearly I must be able to use Weavile in UU, right?
>>58768074>"most zoomers don't think that bullying is wrong" or "more than half of all zoomers say that doxxing is a useful life skill,">why are zoomers like this
>>58769568...what? are you certain they arent saying sneasel cant be ou?
>>58770745You COULD run Sneasel in OU if you wanted to be running at an objective disadvantage, but because Weavile exists, who is literally a stronger Sneasel, you have no beneficial incentive to run Sneasel in OU in a broad sense.In an extremely niche sense, you MIGHT be able to get some kind of rare "gotcha" interaction against a Fake Out user, since Sneasel has Inner Focus as an ability option whereas Weavile only has Pressure, but even that's being generous in assuming it's huge enough to warrant carrying around a Sneasel in a tier meant for its "literally the same thing but better" evolution.
>>58770780>you have no beneficial incentive to run Sneasel in OU in a broad sense.and I have no reason to use it in UU either because the split didn't actually make sneasel better
>still arguing about SneaselGen3 Absol is RU, but Gen4 Absol is UU. Splitfags got a response?
>>58771360give absol a 70bp priority move and it will be UU in gen 3 too
>>58770780>>58771348Why are you guys talking about dumbass tiers? Sneasel and Weavile were made for the games, not for smogon. And surprise, it was bad in the games before the split too.
>>58768426Low IQ nigga
it’s baffling how the pre-split system is barely an issue in gens 1 and 2. (the only pokemon I’d say is seriously hindered by it in a way that fucks with the intended balance is Hitmonchan. the elemental punches are such an integral part of its kit but it just can’t do anything with them.)but in gen 3, pre-split becomes unbearable. I blame expanding movepools and the double blow of EVs and Natures killing mixed attackers.
/vp/ needs a special captcha that requires you to upload your Elo for current gen OU.Board quality would dramatically improve over night.
>>58771626>fanficshitit wouldn’t improve anything
>>58771630post elo
>>58771619The IV system was also a key contributor, now instead of only needing to worry about needing to get up to 15 DVs in each stat (sometimes for some stats, less depending on species limitations) you had to worry yourself about getting 31. But you also DIDN'T want All 31s in most cases because of Hidden Power, because even with the movepool expansions, a lot of mons were still relying on HP for coverage, and most times a mon wanted to shed IVs off of the attacking stat it wasn't going to use in pursuit of the HP type it wants.
>>58771626>only ELO, meaning you don't have to actually play the game to post on /vp/, just the modded fanfic meta house rules editionNo, you should also have to post your standings in whatever ranking system Champions uses once it releases.
>>58771639post elo
>>58771396>70bp priority moveWhich is good because of the split*
>>58771656>post fanfic meta ranking that doesn't actually indicate that you play the real game, only the modified version with house rulesI don't think I will.
>>58771662post ball rank then
>>58771661It would be good regardless of the split.
The types, instead of the moves, being divided between physical and special made sense in the lower optimization contest of the early games.
>>58771740it also made sense in the "let's not make one stat completely useless" contest of the early games
Remember that time GameFreak tried to nerf Alakazam and Mewtwo by splitting Special into two stats, but it didn't actually nerf them and just made every other Pokemon except them and Mew worse for no reason, making those three even stronger as a consequence?I'm surprised there isn't any seething about that fuckup the way there's seething about the Phys/Spec Split.
>>58771752>Remember that time GameFreak tried to nerf Alakazam and Mewtwo by splitting Special into two stats, but it didn't actually nerf themIt did though.They both lost a significant amount of special bulk in Gen 2.
>>58771916But everyone else lost even more bulk, so none of them got to actually even strike at that weaker special bulk before they were OHKO'd by Psychic, punch coverage or boltbeam/thunblizz coverage.
>>58771752>>58772029there were a few pokemon that gained special defense. namely things like snorlax, muk, machamp and the hitmons. All of which didn't use their special attack stat at all.
>>58772029>But everyone else lost even more bulkMewtwo lost 64 SpD and Alakazam lost 40.No Pokemon lost as much stats as Mewtwo did in Gen 2 and 40 is about the average lose for most Pokemon going from Gen 1 to 2.
